I don't think anybody could have predicted that tribal groups, religious sects and traditional political enemies would engage in Civil War.
Except those of us who did, of course.
toes
· 1 year ago
All the signs point to this situation going straight downhill fast.
Another "surge" by July perhaps? I'm sure that the presumptive GOP nominee will think that it's a dandy idea. Wonder what the loved ones of the surgees will think?
SINGING_TROLL
· 1 year ago
If we really care about Iraq, we will make sure that Hillary and her false, media-hyped surge remain trapped in the bowels of her own dirty-ape thought processes.
Mykel1
· 1 year ago
Race, religion and politics always the same shit.
Watching the British House of Commons just now on C-Span2. Barring the distinguished accents I would have sworn the debate was taking place in the U.S. Congress.
The more things change, the more they stay same. What a world!!
.
Nelson
· 1 year ago
It's been years since we've understood that Iraq would remain a quagmire absent a political solution. We don't do political solutions for ourselves in the United States, let alone in alien territory.
bumpkis
· 1 year ago
Get. Out. Now.
OlderAndWiser
· 1 year ago
Civil disobedience...something I've participated in many times.
Why should it be any different for Iraqis who love their country and want the invaders out? BushCo is no different in Iraq than the British were in this country. ...
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Also goes to show the fallacy that the Iraqis will be able to maintain peace after we leave.
Brits turned Basra over to the Iraqis awhile ago, not Al Sadr rules the streets.
Truth is, we can delay their civil war but we can't stop it.
So what's the point of pouring lives and treasure into postponing something that's going to happen anyway?
grandma
· 1 year ago
What's the point?
For Bush the point is his legacy......that trumps lives lost for him.
What a tragedy this man was allowed to remain in office.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Um...that was "now Al Sadr rules the streets...."
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
toes
All the signs point to this situation going straight downhill fast.
Another "surge" by July perhaps? I'm sure that the presumptive GOP nominee will think that it's a dandy idea. Wonder what the loved ones of the surgees will think?
----
Not sure they have many more troops to "surge" with.
I think they're begging the Brits to get back into the fight, but without the Poodle around to wag his tail at Bush's every command, I don't see it.
I'm not sure the Brits did much anyway. They just sort of turned their territory over to the militants and said "now, be nice until we leave and it's all yours."
lynchie
· 1 year ago
I totally agree. I am still amazed that the troops are not revolting to extended tours, casualties and no clear mission. I suppose the argument that Cheney used about them being volunteers is somewhat valid. If they aren't complaining I guess there is no problem.
grandma
· 1 year ago
I think that is part of their training....to do what they are told ...without questioning it.
That's why it's usually only the Iraq veterans that speak out.
AdrianBrowne
· 1 year ago
Good interview of A.J. Rossmiller from NPR show Fair Game:
I have posted this suggestion a few times but here it is again. The Administration including the House and Senate needs to sit down and watch Lawrence of Arabia. I know it is a loosely based epic but there are absolute parallels to what has occurred over the past 5 years. The British wanted to take control of the oil. Turkey had their troops in place. Lawrence was sent to unify the various Arab tribes and drive out the Turks so Britain could expand its Empire. Sound familiar so far. Well Lawrence did a great job. He realized he could unite the tribes by paying them huge sums of gold and by focusing them on the Turks and the riches they possessed. Alas in the end when the Turks were gone Lawrence tried to give each tribe a major role, one tribe was in charge of water control, another fire brigade, another electricity, another police, etc. In the end Bagdhad caught on fire and there was no electricity, no water and no fire brigade. The chaos in the parliament set up by the Brits was astonishing and the tribes disbanded their allegiances and continued the thousands year battles they had with each other. A long post to point out nothing has changed buying the tribes is ok as long as you always pay and give in to their increasing demands for more. The shit is going to hit the snowblower in the next few months. The bloodshed will be astonishing both for Iraqi's and our troops. Our troops don't know how to speak the local language, can't distinguish a Sunni from a goose have no clear mission. They are not policemen, the Iraqi police aren't policemen. This mess is going to explode into something far worse than we can imagine and there is no one in Washington who gives a shit.
grandma
· 1 year ago
Perino Spins Renewed Violence In Iraq: ‘The Surge Created New Opportunities’ For Iraqi Security Forces»
......during today’s White House press briefing, press secretary Dana Perino tried to spin the recent hostilites in Iraq as a positive development for the “surge,” saying that having the ISF conduct military operations is “what critics have wanted to see”:....
I don't think Iraq matters any more. It's just another bother, another point for debate scores, another foolish thing a foolish government sponsors. The prosperous Iraqi already walked away, the fanatical insist on street fighting among themselves, and the Green Zone is apparently some kind of colonial power joke. We should never have gone in, we should get out now, but that's not going to happen. It's become page two news at best.
grandma
· 1 year ago
You are right Indigo.....Bush is just waiting it out to dump it on his successor.
grandma
· 1 year ago
Dave...reminds me of Bush's words after Katrina:
"No one could have predicted the levees failing"
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
lynchie
------
Interesting.
Too bad Bush doesn't watch movies.
Would have worked with Reagan.
EdNSted
· 1 year ago
Gee, it seem like only a year ago... I was listening to Dick Cheney discuss the Bristish troop withdrawal from southern Iraq...
"I look at it, and what I see is an affirmation of the fact that there are parts of Iraq where things are going pretty well. The focus that we've had, obviously, is Baghdad and the decision the President made to surge troops into Baghdad. The Baghdad Security Plan is based on conditions in Baghdad.
But in fact, I talked to a friend just the other day, a guy who knows the region very well, has spent a lot of years in that part of the world who had driven from Baghdad down to Basra in seven hours, found the situation dramatically improved compared to where it was a year or so ago, sort of validated the British view that they have made progress in southern Iraq, and that they can therefore afford to reduce their force posture. "
I totally agree. I am still amazed that the troops are not revolting to extended tours, casualties and no clear mission. I suppose the argument that Cheney used about them being volunteers is somewhat valid. If they aren't complaining I guess there is no problem.
-----
Well, you know, that's not like us bawking at our bosses or even quitting our jobs.
It's a pretty serious crime to refuse orders or even agitate against the orders of those in command.
You're talking time in Leavenworth and, I think, even death in some cases.
AdrianBrowne
· 1 year ago
Article from last week's New York about Abu Ghraiba:
Gee, it seem like only a year ago... I was listening to Dick Cheney discuss the Bristish troop withdrawal from southern Iraq...
-----
Yeah, that was a farce.
Everybody knew the Brits were just leaving the area in the hands of the militias.
In fact, I remember reading that, as soon as the Brits left, all the Iraqis they left in charge of the police stations and bases looted the places and left.
Then the militias took over.
Rab
· 1 year ago
Great documentary on the cluster f**k the shrub gave us.
That doesn't mean that the departure of British troops will be followed by an immediate increase in violence. The British, after all, gave up their bases inside the city last summer and have been hunkered down on a base at Basra's airport ever since. Even before that, they treaded lightly in Basra.
That low-key approach seemed to pay dividends in the early years of the war, when relative peace in Basra contrasted with escalating violence in areas where the Americans employed more aggressive tactics. But it ultimately became clear that the British were bystanders to a turf war that involved militias loyal to the Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council (SIIC), followers of the cleric Moqtada al Sadr, and the smaller Fadhila party.
The full scale of the chaos left behind by British forces in Basra was revealed yesterday as the city's police chief described a province in the grip of well-armed militias strong enough to overpower security forces and brutal enough to behead women considered not sufficiently Islamic.
As British forces finally handed over security in Basra province, marking the end of 4½ years of control in southern Iraq, Major General Jalil Khalaf, the new police commander, said the occupation had left him with a situation close to mayhem. "They left me militia, they left me gangsters, and they left me all the troubles in the world," he said in an interview for Guardian Films and ITV.
Bush Bites: i know there are huge implications but the absolute silence which i know is controlled by the media's access to interviewing the troops is limited. However, I think after a while i would take the stockade to getting my legs blown off.
jr
· 1 year ago
the repubs try and hypnotize us into thinking their Vietnam 2.0 shit doesn't stink
Upland_Oddball
· 1 year ago
Al Sadr is a factor that this administration just doesn't fathom. He is commited totally to gaiining the top spot in relligious as well as pollitical affairs in the post-Saddam Iraq. Part of this is his own personal ambition. But much of it is dynastic. He is the surviving son of a top Shiite cleric who was murdered by the Baathist regime and who is regarded by milllions as a martyr and hero. The Ayatollah Al Sadr was not the top ranking cleric in his day, and this grated on his followers. There is a strong sense of grievance among the al Sadr followers regarding a perceived lack of respect for the family from the followers of rival clerics like Al Sistani and Al Hakim. The Shiites, as it is, are particularly motivated by emotions generated by deep fellings of grievance and betrayal. Al Sadr's camp is doubly so.
Moqtada wants very much to fully assume hiis father's role and take on all of his titles and honors. He has been working privately to prepare himself to take and pass the rigorous examination process to be declared an ayatollah. This he can do without much hinderance. But becoming a grand ayatollah and leader of Iraq is something he will have to seize for himself.. He is capable of plunging Iraq into a kind of Hell --- as Dionysus did to Thebes in the Greek play "The Bacchae" just to ensure that he and hs family gets the propoer respect and position they demand.
Bush, Cheney and John McSame are Texas comic book characters compared to the level of the forces at play in Iraq.
Government-Funded Investigators Accused Of WTC Cover-Up American Society of Civil Engineers lied about inability of skyscrapers to withstand airliner impacts
nikto
· 1 year ago
With this ominous development in Iraq, STEVE GILLIARD is especially missed.
STEVE'S expertise on military matters gave him special insights into the possibilities for total collapse/chaos/US disaster that exist in Iraq.
I miss you, STEVE!!
Shannon
· 1 year ago
The "Ceasefire" has been paid for.......gee what brave troops we have...the military has been paying the "enemy" not to attack them..........that has to be one for the history books. In all my years, I have never heard of the United States military paying the enemy not to attack them...........really makes them look like a bunch of CHICKENSHITS......
All Comments
Except those of us who did, of course.
Another "surge" by July perhaps? I'm sure that the presumptive GOP nominee will think that it's a dandy idea. Wonder what the loved ones of the surgees will think?
Watching the British House of Commons just now on C-Span2. Barring the distinguished accents I would have sworn the debate was taking place in the U.S. Congress.
The more things change, the more they stay same. What a world!!
.
Why should it be any different for Iraqis who love their country and want the invaders out? BushCo is no different in Iraq than the British were in this country.
...
Brits turned Basra over to the Iraqis awhile ago, not Al Sadr rules the streets.
Truth is, we can delay their civil war but we can't stop it.
So what's the point of pouring lives and treasure into postponing something that's going to happen anyway?
For Bush the point is his legacy......that trumps lives lost for him.
What a tragedy this man was allowed to remain in office.
All the signs point to this situation going straight downhill fast.
Another "surge" by July perhaps? I'm sure that the presumptive GOP nominee will think that it's a dandy idea. Wonder what the loved ones of the surgees will think?
----
Not sure they have many more troops to "surge" with.
I think they're begging the Brits to get back into the fight, but without the Poodle around to wag his tail at Bush's every command, I don't see it.
I'm not sure the Brits did much anyway. They just sort of turned their territory over to the militants and said "now, be nice until we leave and it's all yours."
That's why it's usually only the Iraq veterans that speak out.
http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/fairgame/.juk...
A long post to point out nothing has changed buying the tribes is ok as long as you always pay and give in to their increasing demands for more. The shit is going to hit the snowblower in the next few months. The bloodshed will be astonishing both for Iraqi's and our troops. Our troops don't know how to speak the local language, can't distinguish a Sunni from a goose have no clear mission. They are not policemen, the Iraqi police aren't policemen. This mess is going to explode into something far worse than we can imagine and there is no one in Washington who gives a shit.
......during today’s White House press briefing, press secretary Dana Perino tried to spin the recent hostilites in Iraq as a positive development for the “surge,” saying that having the ISF conduct military operations is “what critics have wanted to see”:....
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/25/perino-surg...
"No one could have predicted the levees failing"
------
Interesting.
Too bad Bush doesn't watch movies.
Would have worked with Reagan.
"I look at it, and what I see is an affirmation of the fact that there are parts of Iraq where things are going pretty well. The focus that we've had, obviously, is Baghdad and the decision the President made to surge troops into Baghdad. The Baghdad Security Plan is based on conditions in Baghdad.
But in fact, I talked to a friend just the other day, a guy who knows the region very well, has spent a lot of years in that part of the world who had driven from Baghdad down to Basra in seven hours, found the situation dramatically improved compared to where it was a year or so ago, sort of validated the British view that they have made progress in southern Iraq, and that they can therefore afford to reduce their force posture. "
Source: Interview of the Vice President by Jonathan Karl, ABC News
I totally agree. I am still amazed that the troops are not revolting to extended tours, casualties and no clear mission. I suppose the argument that Cheney used about them being volunteers is somewhat valid. If they aren't complaining I guess there is no problem.
-----
Well, you know, that's not like us bawking at our bosses or even quitting our jobs.
It's a pretty serious crime to refuse orders or even agitate against the orders of those in command.
You're talking time in Leavenworth and, I think, even death in some cases.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/03/24/0...
Gee, it seem like only a year ago... I was listening to Dick Cheney discuss the Bristish troop withdrawal from southern Iraq...
-----
Yeah, that was a farce.
Everybody knew the Brits were just leaving the area in the hands of the militias.
In fact, I remember reading that, as soon as the Brits left, all the Iraqis they left in charge of the police stations and bases looted the places and left.
Then the militias took over.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/bushswa...
That low-key approach seemed to pay dividends in the early years of the war, when relative peace in Basra contrasted with escalating violence in areas where the Americans employed more aggressive tactics. But it ultimately became clear that the British were bystanders to a turf war that involved militias loyal to the Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council (SIIC), followers of the cleric Moqtada al Sadr, and the smaller Fadhila party.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1...
http://www.roadstoiraq.com/2007/12/18/basra-wha...
As British forces finally handed over security in Basra province, marking the end of 4½ years of control in southern Iraq, Major General Jalil Khalaf, the new police commander, said the occupation had left him with a situation close to mayhem. "They left me militia, they left me gangsters, and they left me all the troubles in the world," he said in an interview for Guardian Films and ITV.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/dec/17/ira...
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?stor...
Moqtada wants very much to fully assume hiis father's role and take on all of his titles and honors. He has been working privately to prepare himself to take and pass the rigorous examination process to be declared an ayatollah. This he can do without much hinderance. But becoming a grand ayatollah and leader of Iraq is something he will have to seize for himself.. He is capable of plunging Iraq into a kind of Hell --- as Dionysus did to Thebes in the Greek play "The Bacchae" just to ensure that he and hs family gets the propoer respect and position they demand.
Bush, Cheney and John McSame are Texas comic book characters compared to the level of the forces at play in Iraq.
Government-Funded Investigators Accused Of WTC Cover-Up
American Society of Civil Engineers lied about inability of skyscrapers to withstand airliner impacts
STEVE GILLIARD is especially missed.
STEVE'S expertise on military matters gave him special insights into
the possibilities for total collapse/chaos/US disaster that exist in Iraq.
I miss you, STEVE!!