John, I have seen you say several times now that Prop 8 took marriage away from the 20,000 couples who have gotten married since June. That is not true. Prop 8 does not affect those people. They are still married, and California's Attorney General Jerry Brown has said he will defend those marriages as still valid. Everyone should stop saying in the press that Prop 8 affects those already married. It is not true.
bbock
· 1 year ago
Actually, ChrisSF, we don't actually know. Jerry Brown gave his opinion. But wait until some company decides they don't want to pay an insurance claim or other benefit and they decide to hang it on the lack of marital status. It's a ticking time bomb.
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
not to mention creating two classes of GLBT's... married and unable to get married.
whatever the eventual solution, one of those classes has to go... having two is unconstitutional.
.
ChrisSF
· 1 year ago
They can try to say it's retroactive but they will lose in court. All I am saying is there's no reason for us to give them the ammunition with which to shoot us by agreeing with them in the press about retroactivity.
bbock
· 1 year ago
I hope you are right. I got married last Friday. I'd rather not have to go to court to prove it.
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
if they have their way, it will be.
while we've got several court cases going trying to overturn prop 8... they've also filed papers to have the marriages dissolved, claiming prop 8 IS retroactive.
I know how you feel, I still consider my marriage valid... I'm also disapointed as hell that the people of California couldn't see through the lies that the fundies spread.
but unless we use their tactics against them, we won't cause an outrage... and I'd LOVE to hear the fundies say "those marriages are still valid"... that'll happen when hell freezes over, they don't consider them valid when we had the right to marry.
scottinsf
· 1 year ago
I'm curious, not that I'm going to do it but I wonder what the state would say if I wanted to file for divorce?
Big protest march tonight in San Francisco from Civic Center to the Castro. I'm not sure why we don't march up Van Ness to the mormon church up the way but whatever.
SplendidMarbles
· 1 year ago
That is an important fact that needs to be pointed out. Still, Prop 8 marks a victory for religious bigots. They lost the major battle on election day, but they won small ones around the country, choking off the rights of those they fear most. This is how these zealots are fighting the right to choose - one step and one state at a time. SplendidMarbles
High Crimes & Misdemeanors
· 1 year ago
Could it be another way to take our eye off the ball so to speak on bigger issues?
Older_Wiser
· 1 year ago
Dayum, John, you're nationwide!! Make that worldwide!!
Good job; good job indeed.
bbock
· 1 year ago
Again with the word "bastards". Jeez. It's more annoying than persuasive. It's antiquated. And on top of that, it's most likely incorrect. If two married parents have a child, but then divorce, their child is not a bastard (depending on the arbitrary amount of time between the birth and the divorce. That's when the child is not born in marriage. And that actually pertains to a lot of kids born to gay and lesbian couples. So you really should drop it. It's not helping at all and it's insulting to friends.
But I have to say, John, you sure do know how to draw the press! Kudos!
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
nice John! :-)
PatogTX
· 1 year ago
GO JOHN!
Heather
· 1 year ago
Bravo! Please keep us posted on anything we can do to help outside of CA.
Ginger_FL
· 1 year ago
SNAP !!!
WTG John !!!
Randi is talking about it on the radio.
taylor911
· 1 year ago
Might I suggest that besides simply not choosing Utah as a skiing or vacation destination, which is a passive activity, that in addition, people send a postcard to the ski resort (and other facilities) that simply reads:
"I had planned to visit your resort and spend my money there, but thanks to the discriminatory actions of the Mormon Church, I will be spending my money in Tahoe/Aspen/Whistler instead."
Send one to a major hotel operating in Utah as well, or the proprietors of whatever other activity you might once have planned to enjoy in Utah.
Crablaw
· 1 year ago
An excellent idea.
anarchy
· 1 year ago
I'll be sending several, even though I had no plan to visit Utah in the first place,
I'll pick one hotel, one motel, a car rental agency, a ski resort, and a restaurant.
ObamaLover
· 1 year ago
So do you like AP now that they quoted you? ;)
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
I like FOX News if they help me achieve my ends :-)
scottinsf
· 1 year ago
Hey, I had Matt Barber from the Liberty Counsel quote me!
Of course he changed all context when he pieced together different things I said in different threads to make me sound even more sinister.
PeteWa
· 1 year ago
Matt Barber, one of the concerned WOMEN for America, took you out of context? Matt's not much of a lady, is he?
Older_Wiser
· 1 year ago
And please, no cardboard "Nutri System" food, either! Marie can blow up like a hot air balloon for all I care...cheeeez.
I wouldn't ever buy that crap, but I'll also be astute about not buying anything controlled by a cult.
smallfry
· 1 year ago
Count me in too! No Sundance for me this year.
TrappedinaRedState
· 1 year ago
GO JOHN!
PLEASE - A list of Mormon owned and Utah based businesses so we can be sure we aren't spending our gay dollars with hateful people.
Ginger_FL
· 1 year ago
You know organized religon is bad when the Mormon church has their own COLLECTION service to collect 15% from their "members" income. Bastards !!!
knobandtube
· 1 year ago
Why not target the Mormons more directly rather than all of Utah which is only about 58% Mormon?
Don't we need something a little more creative to target the church rather than the innocent population?
RainbowPhoenix
· 1 year ago
Since Utah is controlled by mormons, targeting both the state and the cult is totally justified.
knobandtube
· 1 year ago
I'm thinking not. We need a more targeted thoughtful approach.
Maybe boycotting Mormon owned and operated businesses is the way to go. Certainly challenging their tax-exempt status is an option. How about just more information made public about what Mormonism really means?
RainbowPhoenix
· 1 year ago
Boycotting the state itself is justified. They will either have to admit that they are controlled by a cult or get the mormons out of their administration. It's win-win.
PAULinDC
· 1 year ago
Personally, I like "the hate state" line ... it puts Utahans in the position of [a] saying that it was the LDS Church that was behind the effort or [b] confirming that it was indeed individual Utahans who poured millions into California to take away the rights of CA citizens. Run with it ...
whomod
· 1 year ago
Listen, i'm as outraged over this overt bigotry as everyone else but this letter published in todays L.A. Times also sums up my feelings on the matter. ******************************************************************************************
To the thousands of you at the rally Wednesday night to protest Proposition 8, thank you for coming. But where were you when we needed you? On Sunday, my husband and I attended what was supposed to be a "No on 8" rally in West Hollywood. The turnout was only about 300 to 400 people. As we walked back from the rally, we saw what seemed like thousands more of you out drinking. You couldn't be bothered to take a couple of hours to demonstrate for your civil rights.
I've heard it all: "Isn't giving money enough?" "I don't have the time." "Don't worry, this thing will never pass." Well, guess what: Proposition 8 did pass. And now you decide to rally? Perhaps next time you won't wait until your civil rights are taken away to get out there and fight.
Ari Solomon
Los Angeles *****************************************************************
This is my experience as well. As a straight married man, it seems i'm way more concerned with political matters and gay issues and just being informed generally than my gay friends are. To them all that ever seems to matter is the endless party and politics is something eye rolling and dull. UNTIL AFTER something like this happens. Then they feign outrage and actual political involvement for the time being until it too passes and they go right back to being more concerned over trivialities and a generally shallow outlook on life and the world. And political matters again get relegated to dullsville and beyond them.
So either way, involved or not involved, i see it as deep myopia on their part. and frankly it's tiring to see it repeated over and over again. This endless reaction after the fact and no interest whatsoever of doing anything proactive beforehand.
whomod
· 1 year ago
It was also interesting to read a black reader basically defend "separate but equal" a few letters after that one. Bigotry against one group is no different than if it was done to you. What was that famous poem about "when they came for me"?
RainbowPhoenix
· 1 year ago
It is shameful that so few of us came out to fight, but if one good thing comes out of this, it will be that this is just the kick in the balls that these people needed to get out and fight. Things are going to change now.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
Oh, such wisdom. You got yours. You got yours. Ohhhh.
willnyc
· 1 year ago
For a friend of the gays, you certainly can generalize about us having a shallow world outlook. I can assure you that my friends who are surgeons, bankers, directors, lawyers, teachers, parents do NOT have a shallow outlook. Maybe THOUSANDS of gay folks having drinks on Santa Monica on a Saturday night was a concern (thousands? really?) but there were THOUSANDS of us who worked our asses off and gave tons of money to this fight. Yes, it was poorly planned and orchestrated. But NO ONE "feign[ed] outrage" here. Our outrage is real. We were blind-sided. But ... we're relatively new to this. We'll get it. And we'll thank for your support. One request? Don't kick us while we're down.
grandma
· 1 year ago
That was excellent John...Kudos !!
cobblepot
· 1 year ago
Good on you, john?! Will you also mention mormons and the marriott hotels?
empirecookie
· 1 year ago
Great!
Older_Wiser
· 1 year ago
And when are the attorneys general in the several states (Utah, Colo, Texas, for instance) that harbor polygamists going to go after the Mormon fraudulent welfare queens who are collecting millions of gay tax payers' dollars--you know, those "spiritual" wives of the polygamists who are flouting the law? Not to mention the raping of teenage girls (how the hell do they get away with this shit?).
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
Yes, they want our gay tax dollars to help raise their mormon children, then they kick the boys out of the temple when they are eighteen for society to absorb while keeping the young girls for more "spiritual polygamy fun."
bbock
· 1 year ago
John, quick question. What is it that we are trying to achieve with the boycott. Usually you boycott to urge a company to change a policy, such as the Cracker Barrel boycott, or even your Dr. Laura boycott. You wanted her to lose her sponsors and get cancelled. She did. Eventually Cracker Barrel changed their policies. What is it you want Utah to do? Or the Mormons. They aren't the same thing. And neither can give us our rights back.
Is this just revenge? Punishment? I'm not sure what the end-game is here--what the outcome you seek is.
heyduke
· 1 year ago
In fact I think it isolates Utah even more as I think Sundance exposes many in Utah to alternative views of the world. This campaign of John's seems totally misguided and mean spirited. 1.5 million non-Mormon gay and straight people live in Utah. Sundance is not owned by the Mormon church, please boycott the real enemy.
DavidinPS
· 1 year ago
The answer is we want them to think twice before urging ( actually with Mormons it's demanding) that their members pour money into an out of state campaign against civil rights. Do what you want in your own state. Stay out of other's.
bbock
· 1 year ago
So it is just punishment. That's kinda disappointing and pointless.
lynchie
· 1 year ago
Let us know what we can do to help
barts
· 1 year ago
I made 2 donations to No on Prop 8. I should have donated to Americablog! Thanks, John.
peanutbutter
· 1 year ago
Yip - my son throws a temper tantrum every time I go the store - I say bring on the boycott. I have no problem boycotting gay crap in return. Perhaps – the message is clear we prefer you go back into the closet.
barts
· 1 year ago
I say that with a democratic president and congress and the Terri Schiavo republicans indicted, we are now going to focus on the religious hate nuts.
RevDrBillyBob
· 1 year ago
Yikes! Why sugarcoat it, John ????? .... GREAT quote.
bbock
· 1 year ago
Another thought. When Colorado went anti-gay, we all boycotted that state. Should it be CALIFORNIA that is now boycotted. It was OUR voters who fucked us.
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
with the US economy in the tank... boycotting the state that contributes 1/3 of the GDP probably isn't feasible or a good idea.
I like going after the fundies and morons myself... err, mormons.
bbock
· 1 year ago
I don't see the point. I mean, if we are doing it to punish the guilty, California is the guilty. I'd feel a lot better if there was some actual end game behind this. And how do you expect to punish the Mormons when they won't likely feel it. We're talking about punishing all the non-mormons too. Even so, the economy tanking, I can't imagine we'd be more than a blip.
I do think punishing Mormon owned companies (Marriott) makes sense and I'm all in favor. Perhaps there are other businesses that are owned by Mormons, but not by the Church itself. Or these bozos who gave a huge portion of their income... they work somewhere. Perhaps we should boycott their employers too.
bananamanna
· 1 year ago
John, you are a moron. First it was the California voters who voted for Prop 8. Second, boycotting "Utah" will get you nowhere - the Mormon church doesn't own any ski resorts and the owners of those resorts are not mormon. Third, you can continue to pack your buddy, you just can't do it as his wife. Move on or continue to hate either way you won't be happy and this fight won't make you happy either. Just relax, take out your butt cork and have a beer.
Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas
· 1 year ago
Fuck you...go over to some Limbaugh site and vent there. "Pack your buddy"...that's the sorta thing my junior high kids say.
bananamanna
· 1 year ago
Thank you for responding queer - you just made my day
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
sounds like cepan... he must have nothing to do now that mr magoo and caribou barbie lost.
so he's come back to pick on the gays.
if ever there were a poster-child for retroactive abortion...
'nuff said.
RainbowPhoenix
· 1 year ago
That's right. We're queer and proud of it. Just as you seem to be proud of being a bigoted cretin.
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
ahh... another wise voice rears its bigoted head.
boycotting Utah will, however, make many many NON-MORMONS pissed at the mormon church when they start losing money.
if they can't keep their money out of California, why shouldn't we make sure people keep money out of Utah? seems fair to me.
oh and, you're blaming the California voters... I do as well, to a point.
you see, we were AHEAD in the polls for months... it wasn't until the influx of mormon money started paying for fear-soaked ads to be on every tv station that we started losing.
Californians are pretty liberal, which is why progress in California tends to drive the rest of the country (which explains why the mormon church didn't want gay marriage in California, it'd spread to other states when people realized the sky wasn't falling)... HOWEVER, people are also VERY conservative when it comes to their children, which is what most of their ads (all lies btw) were geared to... and who paid for those ads? the fundies and mormons.
California would've dropped prop 8 like a hot rock if it hadn't been for those ads.
question, I know I was born gay... were you born a bigoted moron?
bananamanna
· 1 year ago
I suppose I was born bigoted, I'm not keen on a man's wiener on my back - but i have to admit I didn't understand a damn thing you were trying to write, ru drunk?
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
nope, I'm not drunk... I just have a higher IQ obviously.
most non-bigots do... which is why I pity you.
as I'm constantly learning and evolving, you'll always be the same idiot.
bbock
· 1 year ago
I agree that the ads are what did it. It's worth noting that we were not out-spent. Our ads were teh suck. Most didn't even mention the word "GAY" and it didn't make the case that we are uncles and parents who love and cherish our kids as much as they do.
I don't actually see boycotting CA as practical. But I'm trying to get people to examine why they think boycotting UT is such a great response. It feels good, but it misses the mark.
sullivan
· 1 year ago
Great! i just sent this link to 200+ gay and straight friends.
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
I also think maybe we should start sending fliers out to school districts in Utah, asking if they teach history... and iquiring if the Mountain Meadows Massacre is part of the curriculum. American History, or more specific Morman history, shouldn't gloss over the church's contribution to Utah history.
John, I'm wondering why on earth you want to boycott the two most gay-friendly industries in Utah.
In case anyone hasn't been to Utah to ski or attend Sundance, you should know that both are very pro-gay and hire a large contingent of gay men and women in Utah. Why should those of us who are gay and in Utah suffer because you can't separate geography from religion? If anything, promoting those two businesses would show more strength against the LDS Church because it would strengthen the gay presence and businesses within Utah.
For other ideas on how to forward an anti-Mormon cause, why not browse the list of Prop 8 donors in your own area who are Mormon and let them know your feelings by withholding your business from THEM?
Holy cow. Utah is not the Mormon church any more than the United States is the satan the Taliban hates so much. Stereotype much?
HereinDC
· 1 year ago
One week of Sundance in Utah....doesn't make up for 51 other weeks of hate.
kiddviciousss
· 1 year ago
Sundance is responsible for launching some of the most important LGBT films in the world. How many of my straight friends would have heard about Hedwig and the Angry Inch if Sundance hadn't been around?
A boycott of nonMormon industry in Utah is about as logical as targeting the fashion industry in Italy as a way of lashing out at the Catholic Church.
Perhaps we could even include Versace as well.
Going without our Prada and Gucci will sure show the Pope we mean business.
Also, in case you're unaware, Utah news site message boards are full of Mormons cheering you on, because they hate the local liberal ski industry influence, and they especially hate Sundance.
It's ironic that the Mormons you're targeting are on your side, and meanwhile you're urging the nation to curtail the Sundance Queer Lounge in 2009.
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
Sundance can join us in solidarity and relocate until Utah Mormons change their ways.
PeteWa
· 1 year ago
your post, shorter version: but, but, but they love our money! they always treat us so nice when we give them our money! shouldn't we keep giving it to them?
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
I'm not sure how any self-respecting gay person travels to Utah and spends their money there any time soon.
jharp
· 1 year ago
I'm not gay and will one up you.
I don't see how any self respecting American who supports equal rights can travel to Utah and spend their money.
You have my support. 100%. Please put together a list of companies I can stop doing business with.
And the wing nuts are already trying to paint this as a rift between liberals and blacks.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Wow good idea. If the people in CA boycotted the businesses there or even move to a state that does welcome gay families then they should do it. You got to hurt them in there pocket book.
HereinDC
· 1 year ago
"900,000 unique monthly visitors."
Hmmm, I never thought of myself as "unique".
Makes me feel like a first class citizen.
CrazyApe
· 1 year ago
Apparently the freedom to speak out on ballot issues only belongs to gay rights activists. When a religious organization campaigns for something that is important to them, it’s bigotry. And the general populace is too stupid to decide for themselves.
Crablaw
· 1 year ago
Actually, you miss the point completely. Aravosis is recommending more free speech, not less. Reading is fundamental, Ape.
rja4429
· 1 year ago
A goodly portion of "the general populace" IS too stupid to decide for themselves -- 'cause they don't know what the hell they're "deciding." And if taking away my civil rights ain't bigotry . . .
dula
· 1 year ago
It is not up to my ignorant neighbor to decide what rights I am allowed. I could put an initiative on the ballot that would deny idiot Christians the right to marry and breed their silliness into another generation and I can assure you it would pass.
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
Exactly. Equal rights are called RIGHTS for a reason. Rights should never be decided for the minority by allowing the tyranny of the majority to strip them away by ballot initiatives.
lucky hussein
· 1 year ago
No, it's absolutely not ok. Not at all. Unless they want to revoke tax-emempt status, then they can do what they want. Religious groups should never be allowed to tell thier people what to do or take an official stand on anything political. Know your consitution or someone will take it from you one day.
mermaidart
· 1 year ago
Your name speaks volumes.
Sage24
· 1 year ago
OT, but must see pics of Pres. Elect and family behind the scenes on election day.
In the end, the Mormon church is a political institution; we see this from the fact that they changed "dogma" in the late 1970s when the civil rights movement made barring Blacks from the priesthood bad business. God wrote it, right, but it can be changed if it hurts the bottom line.
Most Utahns are Mormon; it wields enormous power in Utah's politics and culture. Accordingly, if political and economic pressure by the LDS church results in economic damage to Utah, maybe pressure from their "Gentile" neighbors increasingly less willing to tolerate their madness will modify their conduct in the future.
A lot of Mormon social culture involves the multi-level marketing operations that have developed in Utah - NuSkin, many others. It's like Amway x 10. And if anything associated, directly or indirectly, with Utah gets shunned, it will scare away capital.
But let's not forget: the Roman Catholic hierarchy pushed for this as well, and in California. It's not just Utah.
You have buyEquality ads here, but we need more like this. It's also important to protect Apple, Google, etc. I am more likely to make my next machine an Apple, despite the cost premium, because they did the right thing.
CrazyApe
· 1 year ago
I am a Mormon, and I am an avid Apple fan. I'm even an Apple tech. I will continue to support Apple no matter what groups they support. I'm not here to hate on anyone, I just want to voice my opinion. My sister is gay, and she is a devout Mormon. She has gay fillings for other females, but she chooses not to act on them. It's her choice! She knows homosexuality is morally wrong, and she is confused on why she has these feelings. The LDS church is not condemning her for her feelings, the church is treating her with love and support. The LDS church did encourage it's members to support Proposition 8, but did not force anyone into it. It is a moral issue, and the church was taking a stand on that issue. As with any other person who voted for Proposition 8, mormon and non-mormon. IT'S A MORAL ISSUE!
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
Good for your sister, now lets boycott Utah so your church learns the difference between a MORAL issue like hunger, and homelessness and a political issue like staying the hell out of my bedroom, privacy, and marriage equality.
CrazyApe
· 1 year ago
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Statement on Prop 8 protest:
It is disturbing that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is being singled out for speaking up as part of its democratic right in a free election. Members of the Church in California and millions of others from every faith, ethnicity and political affiliation who voted for Proposition 8 exercised the most sacrosanct and individual rights in the United States – that of free expression and voting.
While those who disagree with our position on Proposition 8 have the right to make their feelings known, it is wrong to target the Church and its sacred places of worship for being part of the democratic process.
Once again, we call on those involved in the debate over same sex marriage to act in a spirit of mutual respect and civility towards each other. No one on either side of the question should be vilified, harassed or subject to erroneous information.
The LDS here, as so often elsewhere, is simply wrong. Ethically, morally, humanly wrong. It is NOT wrong to criticize their church, and target their places of worship. Why? Because the Mormons chose this battle. Their millions purchased Prop 8, and purchased its outcome.
They chose to enter the political arena. Now, they will pay the bill for this deeply un-American attack on our liberties.
We will boycott Utah for a long, long time. Why? Because it will hurt them where live -- in the wallet. Why? Because Bonneville media, the Marriott chain, and numerous other Mormon businesses have been getting away with their diet of hate and bigotry for years.
Mormons came to California in order to buy a deeply un-American proposition.
We will stay away from Utah by the tens of thousands, and only then will they -- just possibly -- learn that they have to pay a price for hate. It's really quite simple.
Just wait to see how they're going to be greeted at their Temples and Tabernacles. If their humiliation requires an army of blaring drag queens, so be it.
The Mormons brought this on themselves.
lucky hussein
· 1 year ago
it was never a moral issue. the state issues marriage licenses, not the church. get it? if they supported your sister, she would be free to act. they don't. she's not.
FunMe
· 1 year ago
AND if you get divorced, gets who takes care of all that: THE COURTS!
The church NEVER takes care of how kids will be take care of or how property is to be divided. It is the COURTS!
mermaidart
· 1 year ago
Prop. 8 was a civil rights issue. In CA now, farm-bred chickens have more rights than gay people. I feel sad for your sister because she's relegating herself to an unauthentic life.
Blueflash
· 1 year ago
Guess sis is going to hell. That's what being gay is all about - fillings. We are what we are whether we act on it or not, whether we live honest lives or not. Do you seriously believe that the Creator of the Universe is concerned by two people of the same sex who love one another? What a wretchedly petty God you worship and what a small shrunken spirituality you have. By the way, Christians think you Mormons are going to hell. Maybe they should deny your civil rights. There's a lot more of them than your kind and your church is all for majority rule in the matter of civil rights.
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
Exactly.
Nothing is wrong with nonviolent resistance. If people don't like it they can always modify their behavior or be more pro-active in getting their Mormon neighbors to stop using their church for political purposes to attack LGBT communities.
bbock
· 1 year ago
And if your sister chose to have sex with a woman, would she still be able to enter your temple? Or would she be excommunicated? Would you be able to associate with her? Would she be able to attend the weddings of friends or family members?
My question for you is what gives you the right to enshrine your morals in the Constitution. Oh that's right, the california proposition system.
Tell me, have you ever used a church doctrine called Lying for God?
Hate with a nice haircut and a smile is still hate.
barts
· 1 year ago
We should comb over every business that gave to yes on Prop 8 and boycott them and their supporters and make it hard for them to conduct business. We should also visit the churches that donated and practice a little civil disobedience.
For all of the trolls passing by, Go Fuck yourselves!
thunderfen
· 1 year ago
Fucking yourselves would be your department. This whole idea of sick sexual deviants claiming they're a race and should get to be married because it's a civil right is ludicrous. You have too much liberties with your freak of nature mentality as it is. You have every right a normal citizen has, you just can't stand the fact that being gay is truly an oddity of humanity. You can have all the civil unions and financial benefits that a marriage brings for all I care. You should not be allowed to disgrace the institution of marriage and especially if you are trying to get married under the name of God. We all have a right to marry someone of the OPPISITE sex. For all I care you can stay away from my business and if you even think about conducting "civil disobedience" at my church you would be removed forcibly. You need keep your problems to yourselves, stop attacking a pure institution like marriage, and leave righteous church's alone completely. You're not going to do yourself or your cause any favors by saying anything negative about Christianity or any other major religion.
barthome
· 1 year ago
"Fucking yourselves would be your department." Really? Well, I think hate and ignorance would be yours! Call me what you want. Since Lawrence vs Texas Supreme court decision that struck down all US sodomy laws in 2003, I'd say we have come a long way. We can now get married in 2 states and civil unions in 3, all the while the shrub was in the white house and repub majority in congress. Not bad for a "2% minority" ;) We have still a long way to go, but I'd prefer to educate the voters who were misled by the christian hate nuts who cherry-pick the bible, a jewish book of fables.
I'd be forcibly removed from your church. You'd forcibly remove Jesus if he'd appear at your doorstep today!
I'm not asking for additional liberties. My partner and I have been monogamously together for over 10 years and we keep to ourselves. I have no interest in forcing anyone to accept us -we just want to be treated the same. If my partner got sick I do not have the right to visit him in the hospital; so how does that confict with your religion? Why is it MORE important to you in preventing me and my partner from having basic rights than say, helping the homeless or the environment? Would you rather I marry your sister or daughter knowing that the marriage is headed toward doom just because she and I are opposite sex?
I can say nothing to change your thinking because you "christians" premise every argument on one fallacious statement: homosexuality is a choice and a path of sin.
I don't know from whom or what you are getting your information, but no educated gay would claim we're a race. I don't consider myself a separate race as a gay person.
Lastly, marriage is not a pure institution, but rather a secular invention that was borne out of the idea of women being considered property. Personally, I'm more concerned about the rights of marriage rather than the religious term of marriage. If the laws could be changed to say "cohabitants" for example, it would be acceptable to me.
Petra_Glyph
· 1 year ago
Check www.noonprop8.com/events for actions and rallies. They are happening in California Fri/Sat/Sun
lucky hussein
· 1 year ago
My long, long list of reforms needed to prevent a facist takeover of america includes this item: # 345 Revoke tax-exempt status for any group that makes an official statement toward any political candidate or voting position. This includes preachers telling people who or what to vote for during assemblies or in written form. anything wrong with that?
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
on the other hand... the way you stated it, it would also apply to all GLBT organizations as well.
we wouldn't be able to do 'no on 8' commericals or official statements about it.
the thing is, with all the churches blatantly flouting political candidate support laws, how many can the IRS go after at once? so they wind up not going after anyone.
lucky hussein
· 1 year ago
If you want to be tax-exempt, I'm afraid so. You can have a political wing, but 2 separate books, and no sharing money. Of course, if you don't make money, you don't pay taxes anyway. They gotta start somewhere, get a ruling, then go from there..
phalamir
· 1 year ago
At the very least Utah needs to lose all Congressional representation, Salt Lake City needs to be burnt to the ground, all those living in Utah need to have their citizenship revoked, and the state placed under a 24/7 curfew enforced by the US military - we did it to the South, no reason this bunch of Fundiban should be treated any different (heck, if Prop 8 had been directed at blacks instead of gays, we would be doing the preceding right now). Mormons are anit-American traitor-terrorists. Seperation of church and state should be enacted in a literal sense: take every member of the LDS out of US waters and dump them in the sea - cut them out like you would cancer cells.
heyduke
· 1 year ago
Nice. 1.5 non-Mormon gay and straight people live in Utah. 1/12th (over a million dollars) of the money raised out of state against the Proposition came from Utah. You people have become unhinged - try to keep it civil.
barts
· 1 year ago
With all of the trolls baiting us I'm even more energized to fight for our cause.
OregDon
· 1 year ago
Several people have posted that a Utah boycott won't work. Well, we have a model! From the Republicans theory about trickle down economics.
Except this is trickle down misery.
I hope that clears that up for everyone. .
((Go John, Go!))
skibum20
· 1 year ago
So it's come to this. Some moron named John Arvosis decides that because the Mormon Church stood up for what they to believe as an immoral thing, the whole state of Utah has to suffer. The problem in this poorly researched effort is that Utah is not the Mormons and the Mormons are not Utah. They have over 10Million members world wide. Do you think that any money came from outside of Utah. I bet it did. Second off, Salt Lake City and Park City are the two most liberal parts of Utah. Park City and Salt Lake are very Blue, not Red as you may think. Sundance is owned by Robert Redford, a Non-Mormon. Lets cause harm to what I believe to be a very open event to all people and hurt freedom of expression. The really travesty in this is that the people of California did not vote or give a rats ass about this until it was too late. I think your efforts will be for not, because demonstrating at Temple Square is not going to hurt the Mormon Church. Not going skiing at Alta, The Canyons, or Solitude is not going to hurt the Mormon Church, and not going to Salt Lake City, is not going to hurt the Mormon Church. Get a clue people. This whole movement is futile. Think of something better and educate yourself before you do it.
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
Tell it to Anita Bryant and the Orange Juice industry. BOYCOTT UTAH.
Blueflash
· 1 year ago
What ever happened to old Anita? Heard years ago she softened her righteous stance against us after her husband fooled around, ditched her and her kids ended up on drugs.
FunMe
· 1 year ago
good one!
kevinbgoode
· 1 year ago
If the Mormon church wants to stand up for what they believe, then they'd limit their beliefs to those who choose to be members, not finance the elimination of the Constitutional rights of others. They chose the latter. If it is their belief that all others should be forced by law to adhere to their religious doctrine or sacrifice their constitutional rights, then the victims of that persecution have a right - and an obligation - to stand up to religious tyranny.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
Again, fascinating that all you new commenters are using the same talking points. I wonder what state you're from and what interests you represent. hmmm.....
mirth
· 1 year ago
...and who might have "suggested" their coordinated troll attack.
amberlyth
· 1 year ago
I don't think you realize that when you call for a boycott against the whole of Utah, that it will only hurt those who are on the same side as you. The Church isn't involved in Sundance. I'm sure they'd love to see it disappear. Park City as a whole (along with Salt Lake and Moab) is mostly non-LDS. Attacking the ski resorts and tourism in general will have little to no effect on the Church.
A much better plan of action would be to target the Church and the businesses it owns/controls directly.
I'm a recently arrived Salt Lake resident who has no affiliation with the LDS church other than a deep desire to see it lose power (or at the very least its tax exempt status), by the way.
stuckinutard
· 1 year ago
It may not hurt the MORON church directly, but the backlash will be more than sufficient to get the message across. This church DOES run Utah, if you don't live here you have no idea. They are constantly throwing around money and religious opinions, influencing laws that they deem immoral. You can't go in a brewery and have a beer here without having food on the table, who do you think is responsible for such a law? Non-Mormons in this state need to wake up and take control of this craziness, that church has NO RIGHT to tell me what I can and can't do. They have WAY too much power in Utah and it needs to stop. Now their tyranny is spreading across states and making other people miserable...it's RIDICULOUS! How does this happen? They need to know people are absolutely NOT going to take their crap anymore! More power to the movement! On a side note..... I can't wait until the Mormon church is recognized as a business(a VERY rich business) and loses it's tax exempt status! It'll happen!
mrradon
· 1 year ago
The Mormon church should be boycotted, but how can a church be boycotted? A very very serious lesson needs to be taught here, or else this homophobia will spread all the way across the country, and none of us who are gay will be able to get married in any state. Not where I live, not New York, not California, not anywhere.
RainbowPhoenix
· 1 year ago
We can boycott the businesses owned by its members and we can boycott the state it controls. People are outraged that the mormon cult can influence politics like this. Don't forget how well the Colorado boycott of the nineties worked. Not to mention the Florida orange juice boycott after Anita Bryant's so called "save our children" campaign. This can work for us and I expect it to work well.
Wildman
· 1 year ago
I lived in Phoenix during th 90's. I didn't hear anything about it.
Wildman
· 1 year ago
How about every organization and person that voted for PROP 8. Let's get even with everyone.
Petra_Glyph
· 1 year ago
we need somewhere to focus our anger somewhere, so i think a boycott of all things Mormon and making Utah the state of h8 is perfectly legit. suck it up.
Blueflash
· 1 year ago
Here's the toll-free phone number of Utah Tourism - 800 200-1160 if you'd like to inform them that you'll never spend a penny in their Mormon hate state.
gwpriester
· 1 year ago
Or you can send an e-mail message to lvondere@utah.gov Leigh von der Esch Managing Director Utah Office of Tourism.
davidkc
· 1 year ago
John, you may already be aware that a gay ski weekend is organized in Park City every year. The next one is scheduled for January 7-11, 2009. More information can be found here: http://www.communityvisions.org/SKIING/indexu.htm
The gay weekend is apparently run by a group called Community Visions. If people want to encourage them to cancel the weekend in Utah, they can contact Community Visions at 1-877-429-6368 or wehojohn@aol.com.
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
Thanks. I just called the number, and a very nice gentleman took my message I was supporting the boycott of Utah for Proposition H8 (hate) in California.
Blueflash
· 1 year ago
If our boycott over Prop.2 in Colorago years ago is any indication you'll be hearing a lot from liberal straights about how a boycott of Utah will hurt all the fair minded people who live there and that they mostly live in the sorts of places we visit. That's too bad. Wherever we spend money there it will increase the state government's revenue - they don't have a state-sponsored department of tourism for nothing - and ultimately that means more money to the people, Mormons, who run the state and hate us.
Wildman
· 1 year ago
Do you think that the Mormon church run the state? Get real. Not much more than half of the state is Mormon and half of them are not active in their religion. What you have are 2.5 million conservatives who run the state. Only about 1/2 million would be considered liberal. And most Utahns don't hate anyone. But are very private. It is ok for others to visit but don't stay too long. The most liberal cities in Utah are Salt Lake City and Park City. There really isn't a good way to boycott a State or a Religion. But you can press forward with your liberal agenda. That will be by far the most effective method of creating change.
getoverurself
· 1 year ago
Are your serious?! You obviously are not from Utah. They would only be considered to be "private" due to their religion. Don't just make up stats either; the majority of the state's population (not "just over half") is Mormon. Get your facts before you just start posting information. And how do you know that the most liberal cities are Salt Lake and Park City. It's just interesting how certain profess to know it all. It's a disservice to this site.
gwyneth
· 1 year ago
The mormons don't run the state or Sundance at all. I think the protests in front of the temple's are fabulous and I walked around the block a few times with you all here in Salt Lake City.
anokie
· 1 year ago
Sign me up....and I love Park City, UT :-(
Ben Dover
· 1 year ago
I think some of us who are against a Utah boycott are missing the larger point. A boycott would directly affect residents and business owners who depend on those spent dollars. Falling revenues will put them in a position to fight the Mormon Cult on all state levels and, hopefully, bring about drastically needed changes. In the meantime, a list of any and all Mormon Cult supported businesses/industries needs to be drawn up and distributed (isn't there something about "Mormon Peanut Butter" that could be targeted?) so a full scale boycott can occur, complete with Boston Tea Party type of events. And, always keep a working list of gay owned/gay friendly businesses, corporations and industries. Reward them with your dollars and don't forget to contact them through email, phone or letter about how much you appreciate their products or whatever and let them know that as a gay person you feel comfortable with spending your money with them. Compliments, along with action, go a long way toward reaching the desired goal. And attack the Mormon Cult through complaints to the IRS and other government offices. Anywhere and everywhere.
Judas Peckerwood
· 1 year ago
Exactly -- full-court press. Anyone know where to find a comprehensive list of Mormon-controlled corporations and Prop 8 supporters?
whozjo
· 1 year ago
http://mormonsfor8.com/ Pass this along-- there are individual LDS contributors as well as businesses all who have donated 1000. or more toward prop 8 all within the state of California there is a lot of information available here... check it out!
Married last Sunday - want to stay married!!
Judas Peckerwood
· 1 year ago
Thanks!
mdjames
· 1 year ago
Oh yes I do. Lets see now, oh yeah .............everything. HA HA HA
Wildman
· 1 year ago
Have you ever thought of reprocussions from this. First of all - most who attend Sundance are not LDS. It may hurt the tourism industry in the short run but the sate will get their money one way or another. I have heard a rumor of redirecting water and electicity from the Colorado river away from California. So lets get down to business.. The people of California voted and because some didn't like the result they blame everyone but themselves. California only has themselves to blame for their laws and they way people vote.
Ben Dover
· 1 year ago
I would allow that to go through the Courts first. Much like Colorado's Amendment 2 did. Failing success there, then punish the CA businesses/industries that showed any type of support. And yes, I have thought of the reprocussions from this. Ain't my first boycott/protest, I cut my teeth on Anita Bryant.
Wildman
· 1 year ago
I think the boycott is a great idea. Instead of fixing the problem you can slide it aside. Much like the problems that have existed in our financial realms. Let's go ahead and boycott. There is a huge list of "mormon" owned/run businesses. You will find that the LDS church has their hands in just about everything and a boycott just isn't practical. Whatneeds to be done is to re-organize and educate californians. We are the ones who voted. As far as I know californians are the only ones who can make california laws. Am I right?
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
Fascinating all these new people using the same talking points...
bbock
· 1 year ago
I'm not new. And I don't have talking points. But there is a point here that is valid: Our problem is in California. We need to do PR in CA. We need to show that we are also families. We need to build for the future. The boycott feels good, but I have yet to see you give an end-game on this. My end game is that we will end up having to use the same proposition system to undo the damage. But we have a lot of constructive work ahead of us in communicating who we are and what we really want rather than letting others (like the the Mormons and the Catholic fearmongers) speak for us. The boycott feels good, and I think the boycott of mormon business is targeted and warranted. I just question what the end game is. What do you want them to do from this point NOW.
iliveforfall
· 1 year ago
With all due respect Mr. Aravosis, your stance in the AP report is hateful. You label Mormons as hateful, yet make a call to "destroy" Utah. Is that not also hateful? Mormons did not lose this battle for you. We respect your freedom to campaign and try to push your agenda. Are us Mormons not allowed the same privilege? A boycott on Utah would be a short lived impact, if any at all. Americans forgot 9/11 in a matter of weeks, and this issue is much smaller. I'm sorry that you feel so persecuted and feel the need to punish others who don't agree with your views. Remember, there were millions who voted Yes on Prop 8. There are only at maximum 300,000 Mormons who would have voted on this issue, and many more democrats, blacks and hispanics that voted on this issue. Please, refrain from hating if you expect the same in return.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
We won this proposition until the Mormons came in from out of state and dumped in tens of millions of dollars. The people of California had nothing to do with this. It was the people of Utah swooping in as they have in Oregon and Alaska and other places when anti-gay oppportunities have arisen.
bbock
· 1 year ago
We outspent them. The people of California had everything to do with this. It's CALIFORNIANS who are our only hope of ever undoing this. But if we put our energy into this rather than telling our stories and getting them to know the real us, of course they are going to believe what the Cults are telling them. It's what cults do best--get people to turn off their brains and hearts and believe crazy shit.
kiddviciousss
· 1 year ago
The people of California had nothing to do with this.
So you're saying the 761,000 Mormons in California had nothing to do with this? None of their door-to-door campaigns? Not the Mormon business owners in San Diego donating $50,000 a pop? Not any of their fund drives in regions across the state with goals of $8,000 per week?
Serioiuisly?
tbhull
· 1 year ago
Any chance these magic undergarment wearing cult fucks kneel before the altar of the almighty dollar and suck up to the pressure?
Robkillian
· 1 year ago
Gosh, I understand....as a Former Mormon, a dad of two Mormon sons, and a Gay Man in America I am so disappointed in my people, the Mormons. I have angered my family with my vicious reaction to this hateful vote and the money that Mormons poured into the coffers of the "yes" campaign. But, our fight is with hateful Mormons and not with the State of Utah. Our fight is with the mind control that the church has over it's people and for the evil act of making their 'beliefs' law.... Our enemy is hate. Our enemy is the church. We should be boycotting Mormon-owned businesses. We should point out that it is hate when someone who understands prejudice perpetuates prejudice.... Our fight is with Ignorance and with Mormons....not with the state of Utah.
iliveforfall
· 1 year ago
"Former Mormon". We are not your people. You decided to leave. That was your choice. We would love to have you back, gay and all. But don't claim us as "your people" if you don't claim the church
Robkillian
· 1 year ago
Posted on some Mormon lists today:
AN OPEN LETTER TO MY MORMON FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS
I don't hate you. I hate your church. Like you, who loves me, the sinner, but hates my sin (take your pick) -- I, too, love you as an individual, I got no problem with you personally.
I just hate your church and everything it stands for.
I hate what it does to you, robbing you of your reason and your intellect and telling you what to believe; I hate what it does to our families -- tearing us apart over this issue and inciting discord and distrust on both sides. I hate what it does to our society -- drawing lines in the "us vs. them" sand that don't need to be there -- encouraging division and distrust in a world that could much better use messages of love and inclusiveness wherever we can find them.
So to you, my dear Mormon friends and neighbors, I'll offer my sympathy for your being entrenched in a lifestyle you can't see your way out of. And I'll ask you to understand you shouldn't take it personally when you see me marching in the streets in front of your temples and signing petitions to take away your church's privileged tax status and lifting my voice to all who will hear, that I know good people have been misled by evil and it's not their fault -- you know I know it's not your fault. I love you, and I understand very well the predicament you're in.
So please, don't take it personally, take it in the spirit of love in which it is intended.
You love me, I know. You just hate my sin. So I know you will understand my position, too.
I don't hate you.
I hate your church.
See you in court, bitches.
-- S
Judas Peckerwood
· 1 year ago
Amen!
thunderfen
· 1 year ago
This statement pretty much proves to me that this is going to boil down to good vs. evil. And by attacking a church and saying they "hate" everything it stands for, I have no pity for gays at all. You may be trying to take this country and it's morality down with you but I will fight with every ounce of my being to thwart any of your efforts.
Robkillian
· 1 year ago
Yes...but in the real world what is evil and what is good can be very complex things. It is good to have faith. It is good to be tolerant. It is good to support one another--regardless of creed, color or any other differences. It is good to love our neighbors. We can either be like the humans that slaughtered one another over their version of God and 'Truth' or we can stop inflicting our beliefs through marginalizing those among us that believe differently. It is so easy to hate and it is so easy to love.
I am a father of two Mormon sons, a returned Missionary, a graduate of BYU and the University of Utah. I learned my morality in church and by serving as I was taught. I also learned through life that others who have different beliefs still are human and feel love and pain; I cannot imagine seeking out and working to inflict pain in the name of religion will get you very close to Christ or any place on His Right Hand in the hereafter.
But, let me tell you, I am definitely over having a group of religious zealots continue to build wedges between me and my children; I am over the mindless ignorance about the reality of the gay and lesbians that are born into Mormon families and the suffering that is very real in their lives struggling to find faith and to make sense of their reality among a people who preach tolerance and love and then work to deny them the chance to live and love without shame.
Hurray to those brave souls within the church who love their Gay and Lesbian family members. Hurray to those in the church who work to understand and listen to the stories of their neighbors who are different than themselves and who struggle to hold onto their testimony--even when they see that their church may be wrong on how they treat this minority in their own family and community.
iliveforfall
· 1 year ago
That was beautiful and moving. I'm touched. That last little part about seeing some b****** in court was nice also. That is the problem. If Prop 8 was defeated, you wouldn't see marches and protests. You would have seen people saying "Ok, the people have spoken." But you just can't accept it that people don't see eye to eye with you and agree with everything you say. You are intolerant. You want people to be forced to accept what you believe. Isn't that exactly what you claim is wrong with the Mormon church? So you run back to the courts, because the majority speak against you. You have to have someone listen to your whining and self pity. I don't hate gays. I know people who are gay. I work with two gay people. I have no problem with them. They are great people. They don't force it down my throat. And the funny thing -- they are both practicing Mormons, who voted for Prop 8. Interesting isn't it?
MikeinSanJo
· 1 year ago
I'm still torn on this.
Punish Mormons, ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY!! But not everyone in Utah supports the Mormon church, just like not everyone in Clearwater, FL or Los Angeles support Scientography.
MikeinSanJo
· 1 year ago
And the big donors to this movement are to Mormonography like Bush is to Xtianity - Not really into it, just manipulating it with their $$.
willnyc
· 1 year ago
I agree with you, John. For everyone saying that not all Utahns are mormon and hence shouldn't be punished, I guess I'd say that maybe if some of those non-mormons from Utah had stood up and tried to fight back against the millions of dollars and untold anguish that LDS caused in California, I might feel differently. I've not heard of anything like that though. So, yeah, I'm angry and humiliated and I think using the power of our dollars is a great idea. I'm sick of anyone telling me I have to live my life according to their religious views, ones I don't believe in.
kiddviciousss
· 1 year ago
In addition to millions of dollars donated in the name of the Mormon church, millions of dollars were sent from Utah donors to oppose Proposition 8, including one of my neighbors here in Orem, Utah, who donated more than one million himself.
Perhaps if everyone nationwide were as concerned, including those in Washington, D.C., and California, Proposition 8 would have been defeated.
willnyc
· 1 year ago
That's fantastic, kidd. But when one individual donates one million dollars, then there surely would be press about it, however press-shy the donor is. I'm a total blogosphere geek and this is the first I've heard of any non-mormon from Utah giving money to defeat Prop 8. Who is this person? Can I send him a thank you note? Who are these supposed Utahns who sent millions to help defeat Prop 8? Let us know!
OK, John, boycott all things Utah. But can you tell me why your website is running ads for the Sundance Channel? Shit or get off the pot.
lucky hussein
· 1 year ago
the sundance channel is not the sundance festival. he's not calling for a boycot of sundance. he wants them to boycott utah. dufus.
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
Because John has Google ads and they use key words that are typed in comments to automatically decide which ads scroll across the top of the page. Its been quite convenient for me. I've used the ads to notify the sponsors of the ads, I will be boycotting them. They pay for the ad, it runs and we can target them as people who want our gay dollars. Or, we click on the ads, and they pay a gay web site that is promoting a boycott of them. I think its kind of nice those ads are being used against them, myself.
okojo
· 1 year ago
Count me out..
-Any boycott is going to hurt an industry that has weak links to the LDS, and demonize workers and people who worked in Salt Lake City and Summit County that are just as much fighting the LDS
-Prop 8 is not going to be end of the war but just a battle, that Social Conservatives have a high chance of losing in the courts...
No on Prop 8 campaign was badly run, it was out maneuvered and out gunned by social conservatives organizations. When Prop 8 splits LA county by 50/50, that is a big sign they failed, when Obama went 65/35 in LA County.
-Don't Have Gloria Allred near the court case, I don't care if her speciality is sex discrimination, she is one of the biggest media whore on this planet.
-Concentrate on the court case and California, not go after Utah, I would even say be careful with the LDS, aim for the hierarchy not all the members..
Remember any action gets a reaction. If one just spews anger and outrage at Utah and the LDS, you will get anger and reaction back, mainly from people who didn't care about this, and now have a strong opinion about any sort of threatened boycott.
If you are going to concentrate on Utah, they one should concentrate on States like Idaho, Oregon, Wyoming, Montana which has some hard core conservative and a large Mormon populations. Boycotting Sundance and the Ski industry will just make the LDS laugh with glee, They would probably support any boycott of Sundance and Redford making Summit County a Democratic Party county.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
Gloria Allred won the court case giving Californians marriage. So I think you might want to rethink that.
Second, this was a huge loss. HUGE loss. Not just for California - rights were literally taken away - but this set us back nationally, big time.
Third. You are aware that this isn't just about California. The Mormons have dumped tons of money into Alaska anti-gay efforts, Oregon anti-gay efforts, and I'm sure more (I'm researching the others now).
This has got to stop. And it's going to stop.
okojo
· 1 year ago
I am not going to re-think it. Gloria Allred is one of the biggest media whores out there. Her law firm took the cases that got the marriage ban overturned. I know enough about Gloria Allred, her career, her over the top office and her antics to state she is a shameless media whore. She is just as bad as some like Bill Lerach.
I understand it is a huge loss, and you have a right to feel very angry and very outrage.
I am trying to write that you are better off hitting every LDS holding out there, protest every Coca Cola Stockholder meetings, every LDS media holding, every source of the LDS income and real estate holdings. Hell, boycott stop the making of Jello , that will bring the LDS on their knees in no time. Take all the bones from Slaugther house use for gelatin.
Also why the Mormons can pump money into states like Oregon, California and Alaska is that all three states have very low threshold to put propositions on the ballots. Oregon is especially easy, which is why the Oregon Family Alliance which is a crackpot organization can have much sway with their ballot initiatives.
If you want to declare war, use your resources to the best possible measure. Beating up on Robert Redford and Summit County in Utah just hits people who are the periphery.
I would do a two avenue approach, make sure the legal defense fund to contest the proposition has plenty of money, and get the donor roll for Prop 8. Go to Cal-Pers, go to every pension fund that invest in companies with large LDS shares, like Coca-Cola and others... email for example Chileans rights groups who will not like that the LDS is doing this, while they have a huge operation down there, for example. (Shit I'll write the letters for you en Castellano) Get every GLBT community around the world at least cause some friction with the LDS and their missionary movement.
I know this isn't about California, this is about America, and no one should be discriminated against because of the person one's loves and wants to spend the rest of their life with.
willnyc
· 1 year ago
I think okojo has a really interesting, sane viewpoint for the long term. In the short term? Mormons - auf wiedersehn!
mermaidart
· 1 year ago
Arizona also has a very large Mormon population.
ShirleyGoodnessanMercy
· 1 year ago
Boycott Marriott, not Utah or Sundance. Boycott MARRIOTT!!! Also said to be Mormon-owned: Kroger, Albertson's, Fred Meyers, 7-11.
Judas Peckerwood
· 1 year ago
"said to be"? confirmation please, and you can count me in.
KerrynowCampau
· 1 year ago
I saw a beer in Utah (years ago) called Polygamy Ale.
You can't have just one!
foxy
· 1 year ago
You saw one I was amazed to even be able to drink one.
gwyneth
· 1 year ago
Polygamy porter, it's a good beer. Very good. It's incredibly different and better on tap. The bayou in Salt Lake City has it on tap and they are pretty good. Wasatch Brewery makes it and (this is ironic) because they have a brewer's license they get to make it at regular percentage alcohol content. Unlike the other fake beers that you have to get in Utah.
From the diary of a Utah liberal.
daingel
· 1 year ago
Don't forget the other Utah brand, the Osmonds, who are Mormons.
jharp
· 1 year ago
Does it help Americablog's cause to click on the Utah ads.
Please let me know and the clicking will begin.
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
Yes, they are google ads and Utah organizations pay for them to appear on sites that use keywords where they will find potential customers. The money Utah organizations pay for the ads will go to Americablog, and we are NOT going to be their customers. You can use the ad to also find contact information to send a message to them they are part of the boycott for "Propostition 8."
blondeq
· 1 year ago
As a gay man whose lived in Utah for quite a few years, I can tell you that a third of the state is pretty liberal and sickened by the church's involvment in "Yes on 8." In fact, last Sunday, a couple hundred people rallied in support of defeating prop 8, most of whom where family and friends of gay and lesbians in California. That said, if you want the LDS church to take notice and change its stance, there is only one effective way and that is to target their financial interests. It's hard to track down their investments because they don't want any possibility of loosing the tax exempt status on their money making machine. They have ties to many corporations including Coke, Marriott Hotels, Bonneville Corp (radio station 100.3 in LA) and Beneficial Life. Obviously, there are billions of dollars covertly invested so that no one could ever track down their finances. What a dispicable excuse for a religion. It's just a power hungry corporation that doesn't pay any taxes!
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
"What a dispicable excuse for a religion. It's just a power hungry corporation that doesn't pay any taxes!" Make that a despicable FASCIST excuse for a religion. I totally agree about it being a power hungry corporation that doesn't pay taxes, as well.
mermaidart
· 1 year ago
Damn...I love 100.3. Crap.
willnyc
· 1 year ago
mermaid, that's the whole point! take a stance, write 100.3 an email or call in, asking them about their involvement with the mormons, with prop 8. ask them who owns the station. tell them you're a huge fan but you don't feel great about listening until you know what's what. THAT'S how we can change things.
blondeq
· 1 year ago
Good point to identify the company that owns the radio station; it is Bonneville Corporation which owns a number of radio and tv stations across the country. As I said, the chuch has its fingers in a lot of businesses and it is soooo hard to track . However, their major holdings include: Coca-Cola SkyWest Airlines (operate as United and Delta Connection) 1-800-Contacts Franklin Covey (your day-timer....if anyone still uses those) Black and Decker Diebold (I think they make electric tools) Marriott Hotels Zions Bank Hawaii Reserves (wholly owned, but I don't know anything about the comp.)
mermaidart
· 1 year ago
Yeah, I did that with KTLK when they were running those obnoxious Yes on 8 commercials before the election. I was calling them every freakin' day. Stephanie Miller was always mentioning that they could not refuse to run political ads. I will do this with 100.3, too. They all need a time out in the corner.
willnyc
· 1 year ago
go!
UtahBuzz
· 1 year ago
Their holdings include the largest bank and investment entities in the state, many major TV & radio stations, newspapers, all the land in Downtown SLC, in fact they have more land holdings in the state only behind the Federal and State governments. Their farms in Florida are hundreds of thousands of acres in size producing food for their self funded welfare systems for their members. Remember, the church was in the Utah territory 40 years before the federal government arrived. Their holdings are unbelievably vast, secure, very private and stretch from coast to coast. All this negative attention is generating millions of hits on the internet about Utah. I'm afraid it's having just the opposite intent.
LIWatch
· 1 year ago
John,
My name is Jeremy, and I'm a new blogger. I just opened up my site in September - I would like take up arms with you and aid you if possible. If you find me on Topix.net, I'm LI Watch there and (although there's only one post right now) you can also find me here, http://liwatch.blogspot.com/ . Shoot me a message and I'll help out in any way I possibly can.
Your Obt Svt, Jeremy
monitor
· 1 year ago
John may miss your comment here. A better idea is to email him your offer of help at:
As an LDS guy, I wanted to make some observations. Assuming members of the church are the main group who contributed time and money to support proposition 8, I understand why you'd be targeting Utah, the church, etc. However, you should be able to appreciate that LDS members are not motivated by hate for homosexuals. Using the word "hate" is an easy way to villify LDS members, but it's really inaccurate.
I believe that most LDS members were motivated by a sense of duty and a fear of God. Frankly, we believe in a final judgment and that what we do in life (good and bad) will affect the outcome of that judgment. You might think this belief is irrational, but it really is a more accurate description of LDS doctrine than the "hate" thing.
Also, LDS scriptures are full of stories of God's patience being real, but also limited. So believing LDS members are worried that not supporting heterosexual marriage will result in God's negative judgment now or later (It's probably more about saving ourselves as is it about opposing homosexual marriage).
On the bright side of things, LDS doctrine does support dynamic revelation and changes in God's laws. If God were to say that homosexual marriage is OK, we wouldn't have this disagreement:) I doubt that would happen, but what do I know...
willnyc
· 1 year ago
mpg993, Thanks for your post, it was honestly very enlightening and I appreciate you posting in this maelstrom in such a sane way. But this is exactly the kind of apologist, passive aggressive, insidious attitude that is actively trying to take away rights already granted to 20,000 California residents. "Oh, whoopsie! My God says I have to invade your state and hate you. Gosh Darnit!" And HATE it is. Also, snark, do PLEASE shoot me an IM when YOUR god lets you know "homosexual marriage is ok" b/c mine thinks it's JUST FINE. In the meantime, i'll be fighting for my rights, not as a religionist, but as an AMERICAN CITIZEN.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Well, I'm pretty sure my religion considers your religion an abomination.
So, I guess, it's our duty to stop you from pacticing it to avoid God's negative judgement.
Judas Peckerwood
· 1 year ago
mpg993,
Thanks for your thoughtful and reasoned explanation of LDS's role in this debate. But with all due respect, fuck your hateful and bigoted religion.
sarah98
· 1 year ago
"They just took marriage away from 20,000 couples and made their children bastards," "You don't do that and get away with it."
You are going to have to help me with this.
When I took biology, teachers said that offspring only came from boy-girl relationships, which is soooo not what this is all about. So what are you missing here?
This whole thing is about marriage and its legitimacy. Heterosexual married folks, who number in the billions, consider the homosexual marriage effort to be driving toward a reduction of the value and importance of marriage. Do you guys care about them and their feelings as much as you are asking for the rest of the world to care about yours? The math has a huge balance owing to the heterosexual (reproducing) side of the equation. IMHO Sarah
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
That must be a hell of a marriage you have if its value can be called into question so easily.
fridajones
· 1 year ago
"Do you guys care about them and their feelings as much as you are asking for the rest of the world to care about yours?"
Clearly that is not the case Sarah. It seems to be an "all about me" kind of mentality. Sadly it seems as though they believe THEIR feelings are the only ones that matter.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Now you're talking!
Hit them where they live!
And hit them in their wallets!
Wildman
· 1 year ago
Good Luck
tamlea
· 1 year ago
This is NOT a Utah thing. It is a Mormon thing. It just so happens that their "headquarters" are in Utah. Believe me when I say this...this state IS controlled by the church. The mormons are raised to do as they are told and to not question what they are told. We have lived here for 10+ years; God knows why and it drives me crazy! You have to live here in order to see it for yourself. You would be shocked people! Look at the final percentages between McCain and Obama. It was shocking to see the narrow margin of the end result. That is HUGE! You really need to find another approach; don't "take it out on Utah". But, you do what you feel you have to do. To keep slamming the many, many good people of Utah who are open-minded and support gay marriages, etc, that also makes you narrow minded; in my opinion. The mormon church IS VERY wealthy and powerful. It is scary really.
deb24601
· 1 year ago
Please don't be so bigoted as to lump all Utahns together as Mormons. And please don't lump all Mormons together as Prop 8 opponents. Roughly four in 10 Utahns are not Mormon, including me. And many of my Mormon friends disagreed with their church leaders on this one. In fact, Bruce Bastian, a Utahn was one of the biggest individual donors to the campaign to defeat Prop 8. While its true that a lot of financial support did come from Utah, it was the California voters who opted to ban gay marriage. I would hope that you'd keep this in mind and not take the bigoted step of blaming everyone in Utah, rather than working on convincing voter education in your own state. Sounds like the same scape-goat tactic that has been used to keep minority groups down throughout history.
vitalmethod
· 1 year ago
Dear John Aravosis,
Please recall your boycott on Sundance! I am a Utah native and part of the thriving counter-culture that is the vibrant underbelly of this oppressed place! The Mormon Community does not support Sundance! Do you think the only state that refused to show Brokeback Mountain in a regular theater, actually condones the amazingly offensive material that repeatedly shows up at Sundance? Salt Lake County is 60% Mormon and Summit County, where Park City is, does not even show up on the LDS population maps! If you boycott Sundance, you are only boycotting the people who stand in defiance to the Mormon culture on a daily basis just by living our own lives and making our own choices. If anyone understands your anger, it is us, the Utah minority. Don’t take away our few opportunities at self-expression! My friends work for Sundance every year. It is a creatively sustaining environment for them. We need you!
Sincerely,
Zara Shallbetter
CHRISATEK
· 1 year ago
Unfortunately this will hurt a lot more than Mormons. We have a healthy amount of LBG&T's and supporters here in Salt Lake City. We are very politically active. As an example, we targeted Larry H. Miller 2 years ago for refusing to show Broke Back Mountain (while showing Saw and other crap). So his movies, car dealerships and even the JAZZ (NBA) were boycotted. He apologized about 6 months later (I think we did some $$$ damage)! On Sunday evening 11/2 and again tonight 11/7, the community held candlelight vigils and marched upon the Temple. With the economy already hurting this could do serious damage to the LGB&T and supporters here in Salt Lake City. And why Sundance - Robert Redford isn't Mormon and most of the festivities are held in Salt Lake City and Park City which are the 2 most progressive parts of Utah.
LDS_LOOSERS
· 1 year ago
BOYCOTT EVERYTHING IN UTAH MAYBE THE MORMONS WILL LEARN TO MIND THIER OWN BUSINESS
mdjames
· 1 year ago
And this will make your life better, how?
amberlyth
· 1 year ago
Contrary to popular belief, the entire state is not LDS. When you boycott the state as a whole, you hurt a lot of innocent people and businesses, but not the church. Target the church directly. Target the businesses they own. Try to get their tax-exempt status revoked. Do not punish those who did not back H8 just because they live in Utah.
Wildman
· 1 year ago
You will find out that the Mormon church own or controls a myriad of radio stations, TV stations, newpapers, and magazines. You have received an official statement from the church right. They will allow you to protest as much as you like and sooner or later they will use their resources to do PR. You will start to see thousands of advertisement that will tie back to their defense and you will also see alot of money pour into California and they start to purchase land, business, and politicians who will be sympathetic to their cause. There will be a media surge like you have never seen and it won't cost them a thing because they will own the media. The Morman church has billions of dollars at their disposal. It will be your doing that will unleash this - keep this in mind as you choose the battles to fight.
skyepiper
· 1 year ago
It amazes me that these people can be just as discriminatory and biased towards not only Mormons, but all Utahns. I think that equality should be served and what some of the Mormons did to oppose it is definitely wrong, but ultimately they will suffer for their judgements. By blaming all Utahns and calling Utah a hate state, these people are taking the complete wrong direction. They look just as bad and judgmental as the Mormons are towards gay people. There are many gay people in Salt Lake and Utah, so they would be getting hurt as much as the rest of the Utahns. It isn't just Utah by any means. Unfortunately many people do not believe in equality, but targeting Utah is just missing the whole point. They are putting all of their enery into something that isn't right and they know nothing about, just as SOME of the Mormons have done. If they want to preach equality, they have to learn to practice it too.
Judas Peckerwood
· 1 year ago
The LDS trolls are pissing their pants in fear. That's how I KNOW we're really onto something here.
mdjames
· 1 year ago
In case you didn't realize, Utah and California are part of America. Attempting to boycott states to try and hurt their economy is childish, and only hurts America as a whole. And it's a great time to do that.....idiots! I voted for 8 and I'm glad I did, homosexuality is as unnatural as beastiality. And the fact that you think that somehow your queer life will be so much better if you can get married, is funny. Do what you want to do behind close doors, but I'll be damned if they teach homosexuality is okay in our schools. And allowing their marriage is one step from this.
Get over yourselves and enjoy life.
Nate505
· 1 year ago
A boycott on a whole state is so epically dumb that I'm slightly amazed some of you are serious about it.
Fortunately, I am fairly confident that your efforts will be in vain. I don't think a lot of skiers will skip Utah just because the predominant church there funded Prop 8. If you guys think it will have any impact, so be it.
That being said, blacks voted for Prop. 8 in very large numbers. Are you guys going to boycott Watts?
Judas Peckerwood
· 1 year ago
Concern Troll is VERY concerned!
Angryincalif
· 1 year ago
I'm a straight, married, middle-aged Californian, mother of four kids, traditional as you get, and I'm absolutely seething over the Prop. 8 vote. I'm so tired of the ignorant comments people make that this isn't civil rights because gay people "choose" their sexuality. Uh, actually, if people are able to choose anything, it's their religion. People thought interracial marriage was immoral back in the day; now they're all telling us that the laws against interracial marriage were so terrible, but this is completely different.
I think the boycotts are a terrific idea. Black civil rights got nowhere until people started getting angry and doing something about it. Farmworkers rights went nowhere without boycotts. Sorry for the non-involved residents of Utah, but the state is pretty much owned by Mormonism. If other Mormons across the nation have to pay in extra money to keep their Utah brethren going, maybe they won't have so much money to donate to stripping the rights from others. My husband and I are interested also in any targeted boycotts against companies.
And stop telling me how the Mormons are only a small percentage of California and no one's picking on other groups blahblahblah. They were the major force behind the death of the Equal Rights Amendment and they were a good half if not more of the funding for Prop. 8, and the funding counted for a lot in this campaign. I hate to blast off againsta religious group, this isn't like me at all, but people, you need to be very suspicious of this group because it operates very much like a cult. It came for women's rights, it came for gay rights and it might well be your rights they're coming for next. Most of the members--many of whom are neighbors, so don't tell me I don't know anything about them--follow whatever their leadership says like a herd of cattle, as though they were drugged. The church says, give over your money, and they do. The church says, spend all your spare time working on this campaign, and they do. You have to be concerned about a force like that. If nothing else, people have to be more aware of the forces trying to manipulate them and policy in this nation.
mdjames
· 1 year ago
Would you like some cheese with your whine? You don't know anything, keep your bonehead opinions to yourself. Prop 8 is awesome I'm glad they did it. Because I don't want this crap taught inside our schools as the norm, because it's not. It's nothing more than a genetic defect.
malcolmx31
· 1 year ago
I guess your ignorance is also a genetic defect, I pity you.
darkpoet
· 1 year ago
I'm not Mormon but, in a contest of wills between the LDS and militant GLBT's I'll lay my money on the Mormon Church any day. With their vast wealth, focused motivation (obedience to what they believe to be God's divine blueprint for marriage) and capacity to play hardball with the best political warriors America has to offer - all honed by 178 years of practice bucking trends and fads in the larger culture - they can dig in for the long haul. Seven out of ten Blacks and Hispanics voted for Prop 8. You lost. Get over it. See you at Sundance.
Judas Peckerwood
· 1 year ago
Sorry LDS troll, you're busted (your magic underwear is showing).
mdjames
· 1 year ago
Amen Brother
Indepentandkinda
· 1 year ago
This website if very partisan, I can see, but I just wanted to poke a few holes. One, a great number of Black and Hispanic voters voted yes on Prop 8. There's one. Two, you are calling for a boycott on Utah's tourism industry... because of the Mormons? Since when did the Mormons OFFICIALLY represent the state of Utah? That is arbitrarily subversive, and generalizing. I must've misread your article, because I know intelligent individuals don't generalize. (BTW that voter figure is based on a percentage cited in a news article, not on my own assumption)
hdemocracy
· 1 year ago
I cannot fathom the bitterness and hatred over the decision by California voters to support Proposition 8. In March 2000 California voters passed Proposition 22 to specify in state law that only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California. This is the will of the people of California. The people of Utah are not responsible for the vote.
UtahBuzz
· 1 year ago
All the exposure and talk about Utah and our ski resorts, national parks, mountains, lakes and film festivals are much appreciated and best of all FREE. Regardless of the content FREE EXPOSURE is just that....FREE! Several of our ski resorts opened today and Thanksgiving holiday bookings are up!
mdjames
· 1 year ago
Yeah, thanks guys for all the free publicity! Keep it up.
fl79tr
· 1 year ago
Wow, what happened to the creepy plastic Mr and Mrs Nice Mormon? I liked that kind of Mormon better than the nasty gloating troll Mormons that have come by to practice hate speech.
malcolmx31
· 1 year ago
So Utah is a hate state is it? The Catholic church also fought against Prop 8. Does that make Italy a hate country? I'm a Utahn and support gay marriage. Don't hate on my state because a church headquartered in it's boundaries is at odds with you and your beliefs.
mathyou9
· 1 year ago
Boycotting the STATE of Utah for the acts of a church? That's just silly. Hey, I'm an ex-Mormon (and very critical of the LDS church.) I loathe organized religion. I have many gay friends whom I support. I was hoping that Proposition 8 would NOT pass. But a boycott of Utah would negligibly affect the LDS church BUT instead negatively affect those who have nothing to do with the LDS church (I work in the hospitality industry in Utah, hence my strong opinion against such a boycott.)
Let's examine the idea logically. If there's a "successful" boycott of Utah, all the good Mormons will still fork over 10% of their money to the LDS church. The LDS church is still sitting pretty.
But even when taken to the extreme, it's still not effective. That is, let's say that ALL good Mormons in Utah, who own/run/manage ANY companies affected by such a boycott, become jobless due to the boycott. They would still pay 10% of their money to the LDS church; but 10% of nothing is nothing. So the LDS church's annual income would seem to decrease, right? Wrong! It's actually very insignificant. Remember, the LDS church has WAY MORE members outside of Utah. The LDS church's income will still be flowing in from every corner of the earth from all the good Mormons EVERYWHERE ELSE. Any decrease in tithing funds coming from Utah would be a mere scratch on the surface. The LDS church is still sitting pretty.
Those who would really suffer from a "Utah Boycott" are those people who have NOTHING to do with the LDS church; people such as myself. Utah is only about 50% LDS. The other 50% of Utah would be paying for such a boycott, NOT the LDS church.
Look people, I despise the LDS church as much as anyone here, but a boycott is not going to "punish" the LDS church in the least bit. You may as well boycott the beef industry by not buying chicken.
fridajones
· 1 year ago
Wow..... how self destructive and ignorant can some people be? "They just took marriage away from 20,000 couples and made their children bastards. You don't do that and get away with it." Ummmm if I remember my biology class correctly, it would be impossible for Gay or Lesbian couples to have children so wouldn't those children be bastards regardless of the marital state or lack thereof? "Marriage" is a religous concept in the first place. I think its fair, correct and right for religious entities to have the right to voice their opinions in what they view as an attack on their basic tenets. Now if we want to discuss Civil Unions..... that is a legal and civil matter. One that should be discussed and decided by government (s). Frankly, I don't think that would see the same kind of opposition as an insistance on having a "marriage". I think its absolutely wrong of anyone to force a boycott against a group/state/person because they have spoken out and voiced their opinions. That is THEIR right! Just as those with a disagreeing point of view have their right to disagree! How can you expect anyone to respect YOUR rights if you ignore and disparage THEIR rights? How is the call for a boycott against Utah, Mormons and anyone else who disagreed with your position any better than them speaking out and donating money to support theirs? SHEESH!!! What ever happened to looking for compromise and working together to benefit the whole? In the end... the voters made their choice. It is wrong to attempt to bully to get your way, no matter what the topic.
knobandtube
· 1 year ago
The Mormon church will deliver a free Book of Mormon to your house. It will be delivered by earnest young Mormons who will spend an hour with you. Perhaps they are in need education more than you. It seems like a good way to get the Mormon Church to spend their money and the earnest young men to get an earful. Here's the link http://www.mormon.org/freeBookofMormon/1,10120,...
chewyv
· 1 year ago
John, if you really did say this: "They just took marriage away from 20,000 couples and made their children bastards. You don't do that and get away with it."
You are misinformed...none of the marriages that took place to this point will be invalidated. They will not lose their marital status.
citizenGay
· 1 year ago
The fact remains, the Mormon Church was the main support of this. That they would affect lives of people hideously because they -- well because they can, reminds one of the Inquisition. The fact that the Catholic Church is also to blame doesn't make the Mormon Church any less guilty. If you think so, then you might believe that two wrongs make a right. It is right to stand up against the sponsors of hate. Those that shine their shoes for a living ... stand back.
fridajones
· 1 year ago
Why does it have to be hate? Can't it just be that someone disagrees? Having a different position does not make it hate and I resent the implication that any disagreement must then become hate.
Opie
· 1 year ago
This is an obvious attempt to intimidate those that disagree and try to lable everyone who doesn't buy into the whole gay political agenda as a "hater". There is a difference between accepting gays for who they are and accepting their politics. Not sure why the attacks on Mormons you would think that the majority of californians were mormon. I guess they are the easy whipping boy no pun intended. It's not pc to attack jews, there are too many catholics to pick that fight and evanglicals would fight back so they attack the easiest prey what a pansy thing to do. For those who are trying to compare not allowing homo marrage to the inquisition give me a break you have no idea what your talking about. Being from Texas I can tell you that this issue wouldn't have a chance here are you going to boycott Texas? Hey why not boycott California they are the ones that voted on the measure. If the boycott works sounds like the slops will be clear in Utah better book myself a vaca :)
citizenGay
· 1 year ago
The concept that there is a "gay agenda" is sign of a warped form of thinking. Denying a sector of society their normalized civil rights surely is not love. It is one thing to hate gay people for whatever reason, but to pour millions of dollars into a campaign to force them to live as second class citizens is another thing entirely. The fact remains that the Mormon church diverted a huge amount of resources that could have helped people. Instead they deliberately applied it in a way that hurt people. If this isn't a form of institutionalized hate, maybe we should call it adolescent fear. In any case, the Mormon church did an evil thing. An adult should be aware that there are consequences.
myblog
· 1 year ago
The Film Festival should be moved to Lake Tahoe California since Californians were victimized by the Utah Mormon Church. Lake Tahoe has skiing, brand new luxury hotels, condos and houses that are sitting empty because of the depressed California real estate market. The Film Festival would punish the Mormon Church, improve California's economy and protect the directors, actors and filmmakers that have worked so hard to produce their creative works. Keep the fimmakers in California and in states that are tolerant enough to value creativity and respect human rights.
Wildman
· 1 year ago
First things first - I am mormon, I am from Utah, and if I lived in California I would have supported Prop 8. Contrary to many peoples belief. Mormons don't HATE gays and lesbians. I many friends who are gay and many who are lesbians. I also beleive that if the following were true - there would be less opposition.
1st - A marraige would be defined as a religious commitment between consenting adults and their God. It should not be in any way tied to a civil union. If a Church marraige is chosen they too must get a civil union.
2nd- A civil union is where consenting adults agree and commit themselves to each other. - It is a wonderful thing. The consenting people would draw up a contract have an attourney sign it and it is legal and binding. This by the way should be legal for plural marraiges too. Even though I do not subscribe to the idea. Abuse is abuse however.
3rd - If I wanted to cover my friend or neighbors children on my policy becasue they can't afford it and I agreed to pay the premiums, I should be allowed to do it.
4th - All people should be taxed equally anyway.
5th - All people should have the right to sue someone else for wrongful death if they have a financial responsibility with said person.
If the goal is equal treatment and rights then Civil Unions should be the way to go. If the goal is to make God or religions accept Gays into their churches and for them to recognize and legitamise their relationships then marraige is what should be fought for.
I believe strongly in equal rights and descrimination. But, I too would fight tooth and nail to protect what I see as a religious right - not civil. I would support whole heartdly the above changes and would fight just as vigorously to protect the rights of any person of any gender, race, religion or sexual orientation.
Di/SOL
· 1 year ago
> As Schwarzenegger said on CNN, the lawsuits taking Prop 8 to the CA Supreme Court will allow the CA Supreme Court to overturn this Prop 8 vote. Since it was barely over 50% anyway. > > In the meantime you are doing a great job keeping Global educated indignation HIGH over how much Mormon Mafia Money, Catholic Mafia Money, etc., was pumped into Pro Prop 8 advertising in CA. > > The entire world was following Decision 2008. They are still watching to see how Prop8 is dealt with, American Democracy style. > > CA exit poles show Black vote @75% for Prop 8. Still lots of homophobia in the CA Black community. > > BRING your demonstrations into Utah en-mass, both to SLC and Park City, during Sundance. GREAT IDEA. Join demonstrations in SLC. Demonstrate all over Park City. STAY a while. > > I am not Gay. I do live in Ogden Utah, which has a secondary Sundance Venue. Bring your opinions and demonstrations into all of Utah. The national/global media has you covered. NON MORMONS in UTAH are COUNTING ON YOU.
All Comments
Enough with churches selling hate. Whether they use ballots or bombs, the motivation is the same.
PS: the link's not working for me, but I found it here:
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/nationalbreaki...
whatever the eventual solution, one of those classes has to go... having two is unconstitutional.
.
while we've got several court cases going trying to overturn prop 8... they've also filed papers to have the marriages dissolved, claiming prop 8 IS retroactive.
I know how you feel, I still consider my marriage valid... I'm also disapointed as hell that the people of California couldn't see through the lies that the fundies spread.
but unless we use their tactics against them, we won't cause an outrage... and I'd LOVE to hear the fundies say "those marriages are still valid"... that'll happen when hell freezes over, they don't consider them valid when we had the right to marry.
Big protest march tonight in San Francisco from Civic Center to the Castro. I'm not sure why we don't march up Van Ness to the mormon church up the way but whatever.
Good job; good job indeed.
But I have to say, John, you sure do know how to draw the press! Kudos!
WTG John !!!
Randi is talking about it on the radio.
"I had planned to visit your resort and spend my money there, but thanks to the discriminatory actions of the Mormon Church, I will be spending my money in Tahoe/Aspen/Whistler instead."
Send one to a major hotel operating in Utah as well, or the proprietors of whatever other activity you might once have planned to enjoy in Utah.
to visit Utah in the first place,
I'll pick one hotel, one motel, a car rental agency,
a ski resort, and a restaurant.
Of course he changed all context when he pieced together different things I said in different threads to make me sound even more sinister.
Matt's not much of a lady, is he?
I wouldn't ever buy that crap, but I'll also be astute about not buying anything controlled by a cult.
PLEASE - A list of Mormon owned and Utah based businesses so we can be sure we aren't spending our gay dollars with hateful people.
Bastards !!!
Don't we need something a little more creative to target the church rather than the innocent population?
Maybe boycotting Mormon owned and operated businesses is the way to go. Certainly challenging their tax-exempt status is an option. How about just more information made public about what Mormonism really means?
******************************************************************************************
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asecti...
To the thousands of you at the rally Wednesday night to protest Proposition 8, thank you for coming. But where were you when we needed you? On Sunday, my husband and I attended what was supposed to be a "No on 8" rally in West Hollywood. The turnout was only about 300 to 400 people. As we walked back from the rally, we saw what seemed like thousands more of you out drinking. You couldn't be bothered to take a couple of hours to demonstrate for your civil rights.
I've heard it all: "Isn't giving money enough?" "I don't have the time." "Don't worry, this thing will never pass." Well, guess what: Proposition 8 did pass. And now you decide to rally? Perhaps next time you won't wait until your civil rights are taken away to get out there and fight.
Ari Solomon
Los Angeles
*****************************************************************
This is my experience as well. As a straight married man, it seems i'm way more concerned with political matters and gay issues and just being informed generally than my gay friends are. To them all that ever seems to matter is the endless party and politics is something eye rolling and dull. UNTIL AFTER something like this happens. Then they feign outrage and actual political involvement for the time being until it too passes and they go right back to being more concerned over trivialities and a generally shallow outlook on life and the world. And political matters again get relegated to dullsville and beyond them.
So either way, involved or not involved, i see it as deep myopia on their part. and frankly it's tiring to see it repeated over and over again. This endless reaction after the fact and no interest whatsoever of doing anything proactive beforehand.
Is this just revenge? Punishment? I'm not sure what the end-game is here--what the outcome you seek is.
I like going after the fundies and morons myself... err, mormons.
I do think punishing Mormon owned companies (Marriott) makes sense and I'm all in favor. Perhaps there are other businesses that are owned by Mormons, but not by the Church itself. Or these bozos who gave a huge portion of their income... they work somewhere. Perhaps we should boycott their employers too.
so he's come back to pick on the gays.
if ever there were a poster-child for retroactive abortion...
'nuff said.
boycotting Utah will, however, make many many NON-MORMONS pissed at the mormon church when they start losing money.
if they can't keep their money out of California, why shouldn't we make sure people keep money out of Utah? seems fair to me.
oh and, you're blaming the California voters... I do as well, to a point.
you see, we were AHEAD in the polls for months... it wasn't until the influx of mormon money started paying for fear-soaked ads to be on every tv station that we started losing.
Californians are pretty liberal, which is why progress in California tends to drive the rest of the country (which explains why the mormon church didn't want gay marriage in California, it'd spread to other states when people realized the sky wasn't falling)... HOWEVER, people are also VERY conservative when it comes to their children, which is what most of their ads (all lies btw) were geared to... and who paid for those ads? the fundies and mormons.
California would've dropped prop 8 like a hot rock if it hadn't been for those ads.
question, I know I was born gay... were you born a bigoted moron?
most non-bigots do... which is why I pity you.
as I'm constantly learning and evolving, you'll always be the same idiot.
I don't actually see boycotting CA as practical. But I'm trying to get people to examine why they think boycotting UT is such a great response. It feels good, but it misses the mark.
i just sent this link to 200+ gay and straight friends.
http://www.rotten.com/library/history/mountain-...
In case anyone hasn't been to Utah to ski or attend Sundance, you should know that both are very pro-gay and hire a large contingent of gay men and women in Utah. Why should those of us who are gay and in Utah suffer because you can't separate geography from religion? If anything, promoting those two businesses would show more strength against the LDS Church because it would strengthen the gay presence and businesses within Utah.
For other ideas on how to forward an anti-Mormon cause, why not browse the list of Prop 8 donors in your own area who are Mormon and let them know your feelings by withholding your business from THEM?
Holy cow. Utah is not the Mormon church any more than the United States is the satan the Taliban hates so much. Stereotype much?
A boycott of nonMormon industry in Utah is about as logical as targeting the fashion industry in Italy as a way of lashing out at the Catholic Church.
Perhaps we could even include Versace as well.
Going without our Prada and Gucci will sure show the Pope we mean business.
Also, in case you're unaware, Utah news site message boards are full of Mormons cheering you on, because they hate the local liberal ski industry influence, and they especially hate Sundance.
It's ironic that the Mormons you're targeting are on your side, and meanwhile you're urging the nation to curtail the Sundance Queer Lounge in 2009.
but, but, but they love our money! they always treat us so nice when we give them our money! shouldn't we keep giving it to them?
I don't see how any self respecting American who supports equal rights can travel to Utah and spend their money.
You have my support. 100%. Please put together a list of companies I can stop doing business with.
And the wing nuts are already trying to paint this as a rift between liberals and blacks.
Hmmm, I never thought of myself as "unique".
Makes me feel like a first class citizen.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/07/obama-...
Most Utahns are Mormon; it wields enormous power in Utah's politics and culture. Accordingly, if political and economic pressure by the LDS church results in economic damage to Utah, maybe pressure from their "Gentile" neighbors increasingly less willing to tolerate their madness will modify their conduct in the future.
A lot of Mormon social culture involves the multi-level marketing operations that have developed in Utah - NuSkin, many others. It's like Amway x 10. And if anything associated, directly or indirectly, with Utah gets shunned, it will scare away capital.
But let's not forget: the Roman Catholic hierarchy pushed for this as well, and in California. It's not just Utah.
You have buyEquality ads here, but we need more like this. It's also important to protect Apple, Google, etc. I am more likely to make my next machine an Apple, despite the cost premium, because they did the right thing.
It is disturbing that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is being singled out for speaking up as part of its democratic right in a free election.
Members of the Church in California and millions of others from every faith, ethnicity and political affiliation who voted for Proposition 8 exercised the most sacrosanct and individual rights in the United States – that of free expression and voting.
While those who disagree with our position on Proposition 8 have the right to make their feelings known, it is wrong to target the Church and its sacred places of worship for being part of the democratic process.
Once again, we call on those involved in the debate over same sex marriage to act in a spirit of mutual respect and civility towards each other. No one on either side of the question should be vilified, harassed or subject to erroneous information.
http://www.newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/new...
They chose to enter the political arena. Now, they will pay the bill for this deeply un-American attack on our liberties.
We will boycott Utah for a long, long time. Why? Because it will hurt them where live -- in the wallet. Why? Because Bonneville media, the Marriott chain, and numerous other Mormon businesses have been getting away with their diet of hate and bigotry for years.
Mormons came to California in order to buy a deeply un-American proposition.
We will stay away from Utah by the tens of thousands, and only then will they -- just possibly -- learn that they have to pay a price for hate. It's really quite simple.
Just wait to see how they're going to be greeted at their Temples and Tabernacles. If their humiliation requires an army of blaring drag queens, so be it.
The Mormons brought this on themselves.
The church NEVER takes care of how kids will be take care of or how property is to be divided. It is the COURTS!
Nothing is wrong with nonviolent resistance. If people don't like it they can always modify their behavior or be more pro-active in getting their Mormon neighbors to stop using their church for political purposes to attack LGBT communities.
My question for you is what gives you the right to enshrine your morals in the Constitution. Oh that's right, the california proposition system.
Tell me, have you ever used a church doctrine called Lying for God?
Hate with a nice haircut and a smile is still hate.
For all of the trolls passing by, Go Fuck yourselves!
I'd be forcibly removed from your church. You'd forcibly remove Jesus if he'd appear at your doorstep today!
I'm not asking for additional liberties. My partner and I have been monogamously together for over 10 years and we keep to ourselves. I have no interest in forcing anyone to accept us -we just want to be treated the same. If my partner got sick I do not have the right to visit him in the hospital; so how does that confict with your religion? Why is it MORE important to you in preventing me and my partner from having basic rights than say, helping the homeless or the environment? Would you rather I marry your sister or daughter knowing that the marriage is headed toward doom just because she and I are opposite sex?
I can say nothing to change your thinking because you "christians" premise every argument on one fallacious statement: homosexuality is a choice and a path of sin.
I don't know from whom or what you are getting your information, but no educated gay would claim we're a race. I don't consider myself a separate race as a gay person.
Lastly, marriage is not a pure institution, but rather a secular invention that was borne out of the idea of women being considered property. Personally, I'm more concerned about the rights of marriage rather than the religious term of marriage. If the laws could be changed to say "cohabitants" for example, it would be acceptable to me.
Fri/Sat/Sun
# 345
Revoke tax-exempt status for any group that makes an official statement toward any political candidate or voting position. This includes preachers telling people who or what to vote for during assemblies or in written form.
anything wrong with that?
we wouldn't be able to do 'no on 8' commericals or official statements about it.
the thing is, with all the churches blatantly flouting political candidate support laws, how many can the IRS go after at once? so they wind up not going after anyone.
Except this is trickle down misery.
I hope that clears that up for everyone. .
((Go John, Go!))
A much better plan of action would be to target the Church and the businesses it owns/controls directly.
I'm a recently arrived Salt Lake resident who has no affiliation with the LDS church other than a deep desire to see it lose power (or at the very least its tax exempt status), by the way.
http://www.communityvisions.org/SKIING/indexu.htm
The gay weekend is apparently run by a group called Community Visions. If people want to encourage them to cancel the weekend in Utah, they can contact Community Visions at 1-877-429-6368 or wehojohn@aol.com.
In the meantime, a list of any and all Mormon Cult supported businesses/industries needs to be drawn up and distributed (isn't there something about "Mormon Peanut Butter" that could be targeted?) so a full scale boycott can occur, complete with Boston Tea Party type of events.
And, always keep a working list of gay owned/gay friendly businesses, corporations and industries. Reward them with your dollars and don't forget to contact them through email, phone or letter about how much you appreciate their products or whatever and let them know that as a gay person you feel comfortable with spending your money with them. Compliments, along with action, go a long way toward reaching the desired goal.
And attack the Mormon Cult through complaints to the IRS and other government offices. Anywhere and everywhere.
Pass this along-- there are individual LDS contributors as well as businesses all who have donated 1000. or more toward prop 8 all within the state of California there is a lot of information available here... check it out!
Married last Sunday - want to stay married!!
And yes, I have thought of the reprocussions from this. Ain't my first boycott/protest, I cut my teeth on Anita Bryant.
So you're saying the 761,000 Mormons in California had nothing to do with this? None of their door-to-door campaigns? Not the Mormon business owners in San Diego donating $50,000 a pop? Not any of their fund drives in regions across the state with goals of $8,000 per week?
Serioiuisly?
AN OPEN LETTER TO MY
MORMON FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS
I don't hate you. I hate your church.
Like you, who loves me, the sinner,
but hates my sin (take your pick) --
I, too, love you as an individual,
I got no problem with you personally.
I just hate your church and everything it stands for.
I hate what it does to you, robbing you of your reason
and your intellect and telling you what to believe;
I hate what it does to our families -- tearing us apart
over this issue and inciting discord and distrust on both
sides. I hate what it does to our society -- drawing lines
in the "us vs. them" sand that don't need to be there --
encouraging division and distrust in a world that could
much better use messages of love and inclusiveness
wherever we can find them.
So to you, my dear Mormon friends and neighbors,
I'll offer my sympathy for your being entrenched in a
lifestyle you can't see your way out of. And I'll ask you
to understand you shouldn't take it personally when
you see me marching in the streets in front of your
temples and signing petitions to take away your
church's privileged tax status and lifting my voice to
all who will hear, that I know good people have been
misled by evil and it's not their fault -- you know
I know it's not your fault. I love you, and I understand
very well the predicament you're in.
So please, don't take it personally, take it in the
spirit of love in which it is intended.
You love me, I know. You just hate my sin.
So I know you will understand my position, too.
I don't hate you.
I hate your church.
See you in court, bitches.
-- S
I am a father of two Mormon sons, a returned Missionary, a graduate of BYU and the University of Utah. I learned my morality in church and by serving as I was taught. I also learned through life that others who have different beliefs still are human and feel love and pain; I cannot imagine seeking out and working to inflict pain in the name of religion will get you very close to Christ or any place on His Right Hand in the hereafter.
But, let me tell you, I am definitely over having a group of religious zealots continue to build wedges between me and my children; I am over the mindless ignorance about the reality of the gay and lesbians that are born into Mormon families and the suffering that is very real in their lives struggling to find faith and to make sense of their reality among a people who preach tolerance and love and then work to deny them the chance to live and love without shame.
Hurray to those brave souls within the church who love their Gay and Lesbian family members. Hurray to those in the church who work to understand and listen to the stories of their neighbors who are different than themselves and who struggle to hold onto their testimony--even when they see that their church may be wrong on how they treat this minority in their own family and community.
Punish Mormons, ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY!! But not everyone in Utah supports the Mormon church, just like not everyone in Clearwater, FL or Los Angeles support Scientography.
Perhaps if everyone nationwide were as concerned, including those in Washington, D.C., and California, Proposition 8 would have been defeated.
-Any boycott is going to hurt an industry that has weak links to the LDS, and demonize workers and people who worked in Salt Lake City and Summit County that are just as much fighting the LDS
-Prop 8 is not going to be end of the war but just a battle, that Social Conservatives have a high chance of losing in the courts...
No on Prop 8 campaign was badly run, it was out maneuvered and out gunned by social conservatives organizations. When Prop 8 splits LA county by 50/50, that is a big sign they failed, when Obama went 65/35 in LA County.
-Don't Have Gloria Allred near the court case, I don't care if her speciality is sex discrimination, she is one of the biggest media whore on this planet.
-Concentrate on the court case and California, not go after Utah, I would even say be careful with the LDS, aim for the hierarchy not all the members..
Remember any action gets a reaction. If one just spews anger and outrage at Utah and the LDS, you will get anger and reaction back, mainly from people who didn't care about this, and now have a strong opinion about any sort of threatened boycott.
If you are going to concentrate on Utah, they one should concentrate on States like Idaho, Oregon, Wyoming, Montana which has some hard core conservative and a large Mormon populations. Boycotting Sundance and the Ski industry will just make the LDS laugh with glee, They would probably support any boycott of Sundance and Redford making Summit County a Democratic Party county.
Second, this was a huge loss. HUGE loss. Not just for California - rights were literally taken away - but this set us back nationally, big time.
Third. You are aware that this isn't just about California. The Mormons have dumped tons of money into Alaska anti-gay efforts, Oregon anti-gay efforts, and I'm sure more (I'm researching the others now).
This has got to stop. And it's going to stop.
I understand it is a huge loss, and you have a right to feel very angry and very outrage.
I am trying to write that you are better off hitting every LDS holding out there, protest every Coca Cola Stockholder meetings, every LDS media holding, every source of the LDS income and real estate holdings. Hell, boycott stop the making of Jello , that will bring the LDS on their knees in no time. Take all the bones from Slaugther house use for gelatin.
Also why the Mormons can pump money into states like Oregon, California and Alaska is that all three states have very low threshold to put propositions on the ballots. Oregon is especially easy, which is why the Oregon Family Alliance which is a crackpot organization can have much sway with their ballot initiatives.
If you want to declare war, use your resources to the best possible measure. Beating up on Robert Redford and Summit County in Utah just hits people who are the periphery.
I would do a two avenue approach, make sure the legal defense fund to contest the proposition has plenty of money, and get the donor roll for Prop 8. Go to Cal-Pers, go to every pension fund that invest in companies with large LDS shares, like Coca-Cola and others... email for example Chileans rights groups who will not like that the LDS is doing this, while they have a huge operation down there, for example. (Shit I'll write the letters for you en Castellano) Get every GLBT community around the world at least cause some friction with the LDS and their missionary movement.
I know this isn't about California, this is about America, and no one should be discriminated against because of the person one's loves and wants to spend the rest of their life with.
Also said to be Mormon-owned: Kroger, Albertson's, Fred Meyers, 7-11.
You can't have just one!
From the diary of a Utah liberal.
Please let me know and the clicking will begin.
Coca-Cola
SkyWest Airlines (operate as United and Delta Connection)
1-800-Contacts
Franklin Covey (your day-timer....if anyone still uses those)
Black and Decker
Diebold (I think they make electric tools)
Marriott Hotels
Zions Bank
Hawaii Reserves (wholly owned, but I don't know anything about the comp.)
My name is Jeremy, and I'm a new blogger. I just opened up my site in September - I would like take up arms with you and aid you if possible. If you find me on Topix.net, I'm LI Watch there and (although there's only one post right now) you can also find me here, http://liwatch.blogspot.com/ . Shoot me a message and I'll help out in any way I possibly can.
Your Obt Svt,
Jeremy
americablog@starpower.net
Thank you very much, I sent him a copy of this.
-Jeremy
I believe that most LDS members were motivated by a sense of duty and a fear of God. Frankly, we believe in a final judgment and that what we do in life (good and bad) will affect the outcome of that judgment. You might think this belief is irrational, but it really is a more accurate description of LDS doctrine than the "hate" thing.
Also, LDS scriptures are full of stories of God's patience being real, but also limited. So believing LDS members are worried that not supporting heterosexual marriage will result in God's negative judgment now or later (It's probably more about saving ourselves as is it about opposing homosexual marriage).
On the bright side of things, LDS doctrine does support dynamic revelation and changes in God's laws. If God were to say that homosexual marriage is OK, we wouldn't have this disagreement:) I doubt that would happen, but what do I know...
So, I guess, it's our duty to stop you from pacticing it to avoid God's negative judgement.
Thanks for your thoughtful and reasoned explanation of LDS's role in this debate. But with all due respect, fuck your hateful and bigoted religion.
You are going to have to help me with this.
When I took biology, teachers said that offspring only came from boy-girl relationships, which is soooo not what this is all about. So what are you missing here?
This whole thing is about marriage and its legitimacy. Heterosexual married folks, who number in the billions, consider the homosexual marriage effort to be driving toward a reduction of the value and importance of marriage. Do you guys care about them and their feelings as much as you are asking for the rest of the world to care about yours? The math has a huge balance owing to the heterosexual (reproducing) side of the equation.
IMHO
Sarah
Clearly that is not the case Sarah. It seems to be an "all about me" kind of mentality. Sadly it seems as though they believe THEIR feelings are the only ones that matter.
Hit them where they live!
And hit them in their wallets!
Please recall your boycott on Sundance! I am a Utah native and part of the thriving counter-culture that is the vibrant underbelly of this oppressed place! The Mormon Community does not support Sundance! Do you think the only state that refused to show Brokeback Mountain in a regular theater, actually condones the amazingly offensive material that repeatedly shows up at Sundance? Salt Lake County is 60% Mormon and Summit County, where Park City is, does not even show up on the LDS population maps! If you boycott Sundance, you are only boycotting the people who stand in defiance to the Mormon culture on a daily basis just by living our own lives and making our own choices. If anyone understands your anger, it is us, the Utah minority. Don’t take away our few opportunities at self-expression! My friends work for Sundance every year. It is a creatively sustaining environment for them. We need you!
Sincerely,
Zara Shallbetter
With the economy already hurting this could do serious damage to the LGB&T and supporters here in Salt Lake City. And why Sundance - Robert Redford isn't Mormon and most of the festivities are held in Salt Lake City and Park City which are the 2 most progressive parts of Utah.
Get over yourselves and enjoy life.
Fortunately, I am fairly confident that your efforts will be in vain. I don't think a lot of skiers will skip Utah just because the predominant church there funded Prop 8. If you guys think it will have any impact, so be it.
That being said, blacks voted for Prop. 8 in very large numbers. Are you guys going to boycott Watts?
I think the boycotts are a terrific idea. Black civil rights got nowhere until people started getting angry and doing something about it. Farmworkers rights went nowhere without boycotts. Sorry for the non-involved residents of Utah, but the state is pretty much owned by Mormonism. If other Mormons across the nation have to pay in extra money to keep their Utah brethren going, maybe they won't have so much money to donate to stripping the rights from others. My husband and I are interested also in any targeted boycotts against companies.
And stop telling me how the Mormons are only a small percentage of California and no one's picking on other groups blahblahblah. They were the major force behind the death of the Equal Rights Amendment and they were a good half if not more of the funding for Prop. 8, and the funding counted for a lot in this campaign. I hate to blast off againsta religious group, this isn't like me at all, but people, you need to be very suspicious of this group because it operates very much like a cult. It came for women's rights, it came for gay rights and it might well be your rights they're coming for next. Most of the members--many of whom are neighbors, so don't tell me I don't know anything about them--follow whatever their leadership says like a herd of cattle, as though they were drugged. The church says, give over your money, and they do. The church says, spend all your spare time working on this campaign, and they do. You have to be concerned about a force like that. If nothing else, people have to be more aware of the forces trying to manipulate them and policy in this nation.
Let's examine the idea logically. If there's a "successful" boycott of Utah, all the good Mormons will still fork over 10% of their money to the LDS church. The LDS church is still sitting pretty.
But even when taken to the extreme, it's still not effective. That is, let's say that ALL good Mormons in Utah, who own/run/manage ANY companies affected by such a boycott, become jobless due to the boycott. They would still pay 10% of their money to the LDS church; but 10% of nothing is nothing. So the LDS church's annual income would seem to decrease, right? Wrong! It's actually very insignificant. Remember, the LDS church has WAY MORE members outside of Utah. The LDS church's income will still be flowing in from every corner of the earth from all the good Mormons EVERYWHERE ELSE. Any decrease in tithing funds coming from Utah would be a mere scratch on the surface. The LDS church is still sitting pretty.
Those who would really suffer from a "Utah Boycott" are those people who have NOTHING to do with the LDS church; people such as myself. Utah is only about 50% LDS. The other 50% of Utah would be paying for such a boycott, NOT the LDS church.
Look people, I despise the LDS church as much as anyone here, but a boycott is not going to "punish" the LDS church in the least bit. You may as well boycott the beef industry by not buying chicken.
http://www.mormon.org/freeBookofMormon/1,10120,...
You are misinformed...none of the marriages that took place to this point will be invalidated. They will not lose their marital status.
It is right to stand up against the sponsors of hate. Those that shine their shoes for a living ... stand back.
1st - A marraige would be defined as a religious commitment between consenting adults and their God. It should not be in any way tied to a civil union. If a Church marraige is chosen they too must get a civil union.
2nd- A civil union is where consenting adults agree and commit themselves to each other. - It is a wonderful thing. The consenting people would draw up a contract have an attourney sign it and it is legal and binding. This by the way should be legal for plural marraiges too. Even though I do not subscribe to the idea. Abuse is abuse however.
3rd - If I wanted to cover my friend or neighbors children on my policy becasue they can't afford it and I agreed to pay the premiums, I should be allowed to do it.
4th - All people should be taxed equally anyway.
5th - All people should have the right to sue someone else for wrongful death if they have a financial responsibility with said person.
If the goal is equal treatment and rights then Civil Unions should be the way to go. If the goal is to make God or religions accept Gays into their churches and for them to recognize and legitamise their relationships then marraige is what should be fought for.
I believe strongly in equal rights and descrimination. But, I too would fight tooth and nail to protect what I see as a religious right - not civil. I would support whole heartdly the above changes and would fight just as vigorously to protect the rights of any person of any gender, race, religion or sexual orientation.
>
> In the meantime you are doing a great job keeping Global educated indignation HIGH over how much Mormon Mafia Money, Catholic Mafia Money, etc., was pumped into Pro Prop 8 advertising in CA.
>
> The entire world was following Decision 2008. They are still watching to see how Prop8 is dealt with, American Democracy style.
>
> CA exit poles show Black vote @75% for Prop 8. Still lots of homophobia in the CA Black community.
>
> BRING your demonstrations into Utah en-mass, both to SLC and Park City, during Sundance. GREAT IDEA. Join demonstrations in SLC. Demonstrate all over Park City. STAY a while.
>
> I am not Gay. I do live in Ogden Utah, which has a secondary Sundance Venue. Bring your opinions and demonstrations into all of Utah. The national/global media has you covered. NON MORMONS in UTAH are COUNTING ON YOU.