DISQUS

TheOriginalLiz · 4 months ago

Isn't it ironic that some of the worst acts humanity has committed have been done in the name of one god or another?

Butch1 · 4 months ago

Especially when the invisible sky faeries do not exist, that is the greater shame these atrocities are committed in the name of non-existent beings.

JustAGuy · 4 months ago

Hey, watch it! I'm a gay flight-attendant and I definitely exist!

Now sit your skeptical asses back down or I will smite you by crushing your toes beneath my drink-cart.

-S

Butch1 · 4 months ago

Okay, you got me there, except you are not invisible. ;-)

Ouch! I've never had my toes crushed by a cart, though, I have had my shoulder run into a few times. I learned my lesson, I never purchase an isle seat. ;-)

Dateline_Molly · 4 months ago

LOL @ "invisible sky faeries." I'm going to have to use that one in my discussions on other forums (fora?) where the Xtians crawl out from under the floorboards.

It's even better than "bearded white patriarch in the sky."

Butch1 · 4 months ago

Thanks, I'm not sure where I picked that one up, unfortunately, it's not original, but, have made it my own many times. ;-)

dula · 4 months ago

There is a great line in the movie Nixon that comes to mind when I think of Republicans. Nixon is mesmerized in front of the portrait of JFK on the White House wall and says, "when they(Americans) look at you they are reminded of what they could be, when they look at me they are reminded of what they are". The GOP brings out the worst in people.

AdrianBrowne · 4 months ago

"The Republicans are stirring up what remains of their base - the craziest, angriest, most extremist elements of the far right . . . "

I think it's the other way around; the crazy people are in total control of the Republican Party.

An_American_Karol · 4 months ago

I guess it just depends on whether you think Limbaugh is the leader of the Republican Party or not.

Butch1 · 4 months ago

Oh, he is, he is. . . The rest have no brains and are sheeple. Rush thinks he has brains, and evidently, so do his followers, following every word or act he suggests. (this includes the republican leadership in Congress and the RNC, who do nothing without the approval of Rush) It would be funny to watch if it weren't so serious of a subject.

tim · 4 months ago

This is serious stuff. The democratically elected president and others must be protected from these loonies. This has got to stop before some racist right wing idiot gets a chance to act out. I don't know what to suggest but something has to be done. Frank Schaffer is right, these people want the country to fail. It's scary, crazy stuff.

tim · 4 months ago

I hate feeling powerless. I'm too old, I don't have enough energy any more as I did back during my 30 year long activist days. Who knew that reading a blog, a fabulous, wonderful blog, could be so upsetting? But it does bring to mind that there is more, much, more than just this issue, there are so many issues that are seemingly destroying the best of who and what America is. There is so much (seemingly independent but truly connected issues) I simply can't keep up. One issue leads to another, which leads to another, which leads to another...and all of them are serious, requiring immediate action all at the same time. It's an impossible task. I don't even have a sense where this is all heading. I have my suspicions but frankly, I'm at a confusing loss.

vkobaya · 4 months ago

This has got to stop before some racist right wing idiot gets a chance to act out.

Too late for that. The Secret Service detail tasked with preventing assassination attempts has had to stop hundred of these nutballs whereas in other presidencies, they normally deal with one or two at a time. What Limbaugh, O'Reilley and the others are doing is criminal and would be prosecutable if they were on the left.

Dateline_Molly · 4 months ago

I wonder what Beck, Dobbs and the other pundit loons are going to incite these mofos to do once August is over. Head to Washington? These creeps are definitely better at mobilizing than the left is, so I wonder if this will blow over after the Congressional break or if they'll take it to D.C. and pick it up from there.

Bubbles · 4 months ago

Well Southerners endured defeat, that I assume was humiliating for them, at the hands of the Federal Government. They harbor a grudge and on an emtional level would be delighted if our Union failed.

RitornaVincitor · 4 months ago

A couple of nights ago CBS News ran a piece that suggested pretty much what John has just said, i.e., that maybe the GOP has gone too far. It's one of the reasons I believe we are right at the tipping point in public opinion, and with the right push the media story could turn on the GOP. By now the media are probably looking for the next attention-getter to run with.

Scott · 4 months ago

Before they get violent, police all over the USA should start scouring the men's roooms all over the country and arrest those sissies. When they're not trying to stir shit up or blaming natural disasters and the breakup of Jon & Kate Plus 8 on homosexuals, they're out hunting for dick. Round up those dick gobblers and their numbers will shrink.

henrythefifth · 4 months ago

What's most interesting to me is that the teabaggers don't understand irony (surprise!). Here they are calling Obama et al. Nazis who are ready to euthanize people, but don't realize that if Obama were truly a "Nazi", these teabaggers would be in jail or worse. Pathetic.

They're out their protesting that they have no 1st Amendment rights any longer, while they are exercising (at the edge) their 1st Amendment rights.

Umm, you lost the elections, more people voted for Democrats. So b/c they lost in the democratic process, we now live in a dictatorship.

ComradeRutherford · 4 months ago

Conservatives can not perceive irony because they are so willfully ignorant.

There was one Town Hall event recently when the Know-Nothing 'protesters' called out, 'raise you hands if you don't want government health care' and nearly all raised their hands. The Democratic congressman replied, 'Raise your hand if you receive Medicare!' and half the room raised their hands.

They are so uneducated they don't even know that they are protesting against their own Medicare!

ComradeRutherford · 4 months ago

"if the Democrats had any experience in actually fighting back - had any desire to do so"

You mean to say, "...if the Democrats were allowed to fight back by their GOP slave-masters - which they will never be allowed to do."

It is painfully obvious that the Democratic Leadership never does anything without the approval of their GOP overlords. It's been that way since Reagan was installed as Acting-President.

Blueflash · 4 months ago

Glad Mr. Schaeffer has come over to the side of decency and rationality but the claim he has made elsewhere that the Christian fundamentalist political movement he was involved with in the early 80's was nothing but a sincere attempt to save fetuses (and only since has become monstrous) is pure fiction. Nothing has changed. This was a proto-fascist movement then as it is now. Two things have changed. In the 80's they were exhilarated by the development that Washington had begun to respect them and in the 90's they became convinced that victory was theirs. The disastrous Bush presidency changed that and it's now been compounded by the election of Obama. Same goals then as now but driven to panicked desperation at the thought that their patriarchal theocratic movement - the backlash against all things 60's - has finally run its course. That, in my opinion, is what's happening now in this country and it's only a testament to their extremism that a Republican-lite President like Obama could be seen as such a mence.

Scott · 4 months ago

In the 80's, the "christians" were also trying to have all gay people executed - Falwell/"moral majority", James Dobson, Phyllis Schlafly, Tony Perkins and a couple other nutballs were involved in this.

I'm surprised that the above-mentioned people have the gall to show their faces, calling themselves "christians".

RitornaVincitor · 4 months ago

I think they were using us gay folks as a focal point because it worked for them. Interestingly the GOP seems to have stepped back slightly of late on its push against gay rights. I take that as a sign that the public opinion tide has indeed turned, and they therefore don't expect to get as much milage out of their anti-gay endeavors in the future. It was a great way to get the undereducated to vote GOP against their own best interests, but it isn't working as well any more. They currently seem to be in search of new wedge issues.

triple7s · 4 months ago

Don't forget, Phyllis has a gay son, an atty. who was living with his mommy well into his 40's. Oral Roberts had a gay son who committed suicide in OK because he just couldn't handle being ridiculed. These are sad pathetic people.

Scott · 4 months ago

Really?

I wonder how fucked up a person must be to live with a mother who's plotting to kill you?

Unless Phyllis's son is "special" and wouldn't have been included in the exterminations they were working towards.

I'd like that old ironbox to answer that question!

UAFA_NOW · 4 months ago

Mr. Schaeffer did a great sale pitch. Crazy For God has just been bumped up on my list of books to read.

Indigo · 4 months ago

It's clear they want violence. Let them fire the first shot. Then . . . the federales can go in and clean them out like the terrorist group they are.

Dateline_Molly · 4 months ago

The greatest punishment we could ever visit on the Right is to force them to live according to their own principles. Cut the South out of the federal budget completely. Then let’s see how anti-tax they are. Refuse to let them use any technology based on science. Then let’s see how anti-science they are. Let the southeastern farmlands dry up into dustbowls, then let’s see how anti-climate change they are.

The Right’s biggest hypocrisy is that they use the prosperity and comforts that the left and centrists brought to our country and use it to comfortably rail against the system that brought them that prosperity and comfort. I say take those things away and then see how principled they really are. My prediction is that they will run squealing back to the tit before the sun hits the hills.

dula · 4 months ago

That's brilliant! We can start with taking away their Medicare and the 40 hour work week...and let their filthy children go back to the whatever factories remain.

Malcolm · 4 months ago

Brilliant indeed. No more disaster aid for the government-hating south; let their churches fix things. No more social security or medicare. No more unemployment payments. The rest of us can balance the budget easily once we've stopped carrying those who don't want to be carried.

Solitary · 4 months ago

I feel like a broken record but I have to ask - once again - what about the rest of us? I'm a Southerner, a progressive, a tree-hugging liberal and I voted for Obama. I have no intention of leaving my home, it's fucked up in many ways, but it's home and I don't believe in abandoning something just because it's a bit flawed. With a little help and a lot of elbow-grease, I and people like me, can fix that flaw.

So tell me, what are you going to do about the democrats in the South? The progressives who are working to turn the South Blue? We've got all sorts down here, gays, straights, black, white, red, browns, fucknecks and socialists, Baptists and Atheists.

We aren't going away, no matter how much people like you and people like the tea baggers wish we would.

randysmith · 4 months ago

Well, Texas already said it wants to secede. If we let the rest go too....
My suggestions -- given on other blogs I frequent -- is that the "state" [soon to be independent] must buy back all the improvements provided by the USA and that any one resident in the "state" when it secedes renounce USA citizenship.
I estimate the former Confederacy would revert to third-world [is there a "fourth world"] status in about 5 years -- if that long. I expect it would take even less time before they "declared war" on those that didn't choose to join them....
Be interesting to see what sort of "free trade" treaty Texas would negotiate with Mexico -- or Canada. Or for that matter, New York.

tbhull · 4 months ago

A load of words can incite idiots to violence. Any thing short of shoot or kill is not actionable and is just fodder for Maddow to pontificate with guests about.

Steve_in_CNJ · 4 months ago

wtf? i don't think this is about legal technicalities. Schaeffer gave specific examples of republican talking heads, politicians and operatives inciting actual deadly violence.

tbhull · 4 months ago

I did not see concrete examples. I just heard him and Rachel talking about coded messages via the Nazi reference.

Only real example was some nut bag in Pa with a gun and killing, so fucking what. Happens every day. Maybe every murder should be required to give what party they belong to. Almost all murders are driven by hate but linking political speech to these very bad acts does not work.

Now if Beck or another idiot said kill someone then let the authorities on them, but protesting against policies one does not agree in is American, not unAmerican, even if the use comparisons (i.e. Nazis) are inflammatory and off base. IMO this idiot is prone to suppression and I view his histrionics as dangerous (both in the past and now) but he is not unAmerican and he can speak.

Steve_in_CNJ · 4 months ago

i have no idea what unAmerican means. it's a red herring. and when you say "he can speak" you are saying nothing. it "happens every day"? um, no it doesn't. what are you afraid to admit here? why are you hiding behind technicalities? are you a lawyer?

tbhull · 4 months ago

I was using his words. he stated these folks were un american.

Murders happen every day. Check it and you will find it is the case. would it matter if the crazy that went ape shit in PA and killed all those innocents was a registered repub or dem, or that he watched Rachel's show. no it would not.

The only thing I am afraid to admit is that you are off base and the direction of this line of thinking is dangerous, often driven by cowardice and anathema to the 1st Amendment.

Steve_in_CNJ · 4 months ago

okay now i see where you're coming from. criticizing dangerous hate speech is an attack on the 1st amendment. you're a fanatic.

tbhull · 4 months ago

Attacking speech with speech is the way it should work and completely ok. No problem there. Saying that it is inciting murders or other illegal acts is another thing. do not mind people countering words with words, but those seeking to criminalize them are another thing.

If you truly believe the rants of idiots like Glenn Beck and the fat fuck limbaugh is tantamount to telling people to kill like the crazy in PA a few months ago then do you not think that the long arm of the law should stop it?

One more thing, personal attacks always mark the point in time when an argument is lost.

Fred · 4 months ago

When the secret service investigated those Palin rallies how many people did they arrest or bring up on charges?

I think many of those rather weird people the media found to interview were planted by Democrats. I know a lot of Palin supporters, the Republican base, and none are like those strange ones. The Palin supporters I know are just ordinary people. But to hear you liberals describe the people in the Republican base, wow. Where are they? I've never met any of them.

And the tactics Republicans are using at town hall meetings we learned from liberal tactics used to shut Tancredo down on college campuses. However, we have toned it down quite a bit.

Butch1 · 4 months ago

"Where are they? I've never met any of them."
=====================================
Well, Fred, that doesn't mean they don't exist. You own those hatemongers. Democrats don't have to travel to republican events to disrupt them. In fact, any democratic protester was not allowed near a republican event. They were sequestered off to an area out of sight in a " fenced off area" where they could protest. Obviously, no one would be able to hear them. Even Bush used to give his "town-hall audience" tickets to get in making sure there would be no disruptions of his mini propaganda pep talks.

Yes, your republican base is full of racist, ignorant haters of freedom who do not want the constituency of each representative to hear what the congressperson has to say. They don't care, and they are far from understanding how the democratic process works if it isn't their guy talking. The democrats do not plant democrats to disrupt their own town-halls and it didn't take much to get YOUR right-wingnuts all lathered up chanting "string him up" and other wonderful things when Palin and McCain spoke. McCain had the sense to tell them that wasn't right, Palin didn't It was her base she was appealing to. Democrats don't need to do those types of things to win. Too bad that is where your mind is. When republicans get caught with their pants down, it is always the democrat's fault. You guys make it up as you go along and can never accept the blame when you know very well it is the republican noise machine firing up your mouth-breathing base. You wouldn't recognize the truth if it were in front of your own eyes. Are you doing a typical republican "drive-by." You must be bored having to come to a liberal site to stir the pot.

So the republicans are too stupid to come up with their own tactics? They had to learn them from democrats? Please, spare me your BS and keep moving on !

jpjones · 4 months ago

"... any democratic protester was not allowed near a republican event. They were sequestered off to an area out of sight in a "fenced off area" where they could protest."

Butch, have you forgotten the deliciously Orwellian name for those fenced off areas? They were called - with a straight face by the GOP and MSM reporters alike - "Free Speech Zones".

Butch1 · 4 months ago

Thank you for reminding me, I guess it was so incredible of an act that I had pushed it out of my mind. You are so correct. Obama has taken so many Bush ideas and has run with them, I wonder why he hasn't done this one? ;)

Dateline_Molly · 4 months ago

I'm surprised that the wingers don't support Obama. After all, you guys are getting the unending war you loved under Bush. Obama has definitely ramped up the defense spending--Hillary should be your best friend at State by now, seeing as how saber-rattling she's been.

You're getting capitulation on the health insurance "reform" because it's clear at this point insurance companies will come out the winners.

You are getting a pushback against GLBT issues since Obama completely backpedaled and LIED to us about that one.

Obama is funneling more tax dollars into "faith based programs" than Bush did. Aren't you happy about that?

He's also not gonig to "look back" and investigate the Bush criminals for all of their war crimes and crimes against humanity. You must be thrilled about that.

What's not to like about Obama?

That's another one of those cognitive disconnects I can't wrap my mind around. Obama is a walking talking Republican talking point corporate backed lackey. But you guys still despise the ground he walks on.

Gee, I wonder why?

DCinDC · 4 months ago

It is a propaganda war. The GOP and Health Insurance companies are betting that Obama and the Democrats will not fight back and lie low and hope it will all blow over. But this type of propaganda, a disinformation campaign cannot be won by hoping the target audience will not be influenced. Obama needs to put in play his own propaganda and neutralize the GOP's negative definition of the democrats and Obama administration or lose the war by default.

The GOP puts out lies in all manner of ways and hopes it sticks as truth to the target audience the American population.

ChicagoKid · 4 months ago

On point. It's white, middle-aged racists that are doing the protesting.

I do wonder why the dems haven't set-up a website or call to action for those of us who are favor of single-payer or public option health care. We need to get thousands of people to swarm and overwhelm these idiots at each and every town meeting.

RitornaVincitor · 4 months ago

I believe the racism is there, but I agree with Frank Schaeffer that what we are seeing goes well beyond that. I believe the basic motivation for this fringe group is its loss of political power, and the decline of influence they have suffered in the social movement. The GOP is out. The Religious Right is in decline. These people had years of watching their political views being advanced, probably reaching a climax about 2004. They came to see themselves as "mainstream" and part of America's "heartland", etc. Now they're feeling increasingly like the far Right fringe with only prospects of declining political influence. I believe this is what they are raging against.

Anarchnid · 4 months ago

My Rep (Moran) is allowing folk to set up appointments should they wish to talk about health care reform, etc. I thought this a brilliant answer to Town Halls overrun with screaming chaos. If you have something you need to say, make an appointment.

RitornaVincitor · 4 months ago

What a great idea indeed!

ComradeRutherford · 4 months ago

"I do wonder why the dems haven't set-up a website or call to action"

Because the Democrats are tightly controlled by the GOP leadership and are not allowed to do that.

Dateline_Molly · 4 months ago

And the Dems don't want single payer any more than the Repubs do.

DCinDC · 4 months ago

Did you notice that with all of the screaming and hollering at these town hall meetings that no discussion about different health care concepts occurs?

An_American_Karol · 4 months ago

I just sent this to our local paper as a Letter to the Editor:

"Open letter to Congressman George Radanovich:
I refuse to attend a Town Hall meeting where my views will be shouted down by a mob of ill-informed representatives of the insurance industry; consequently, this is the only way to have my voice heard on Health Care reform.
My son has worked his entire adult life without health care insurance. He has worked within an industry that does not offer these benefits. To buy health care insurance is not an option for him and his young son because both have preexisting health problems and no insurance company will cover them or the cost would be prohibitive.
My daughter and her husband, a small business owner, pay over $1,000 a month for private insurance covering only catastrophic health – and even that has a cap.
In California, the poor get health insurance through the state, and those working in some industries are covered through work, but there are working, productive segments in our country, state, county, and city that have no safety net at all.
I challenge others with health care stories to share them by any means possible to show support for reform. Send open letters, email your representatives, send a letter or email to Congress or the White House, but let people know your story.
And, let them know it is not reform without a public option."

devlzadvocate · 4 months ago

I met one of them yesterday - in my home. A repairman that regularly does work for me. He does great work. I brought up the subject of health reform and questioned his thoughts. His first comment, "You know I'm a conservative. So you pretty much know where I stand." After a conversation that glossed over the topic, I stated that my real concern was that there should be civil discourse and no threats of violence or death in a society of free speech on such an important subject. His comment,

"Except for the death of "XXXXXXXXX. He has had it coming for a while. He said he wanted health care for years."

I know what I have to do, but this guy has pieces of my house and I can't do it until he returns them.

I know. I hear ya. Never trust them.

triple7s · 4 months ago

This is so much about racism. There are large numbers of white folks who will never accept people of color, and they are willing to go down with the ship on this. I think we are closer to the next "civil war" than at any time in my 63 years. The question is, can anything pull us back to sanity?

mike_franklin · 4 months ago

I really don't think pandering to fear and partisan baiting is the answer. I also realize that this opinion will not likely be welcomed in this forum but... it needs to be said.

This same kind of thing was seen in reverse during the Bush years. And don't say it wasn't because everyone knows better. It's just a matter of which side of the red-blue divide you choose to stand on.

Personally, I dislike all politics and the hate-baiting from both sides. I find it horrible that we can claim to be a land where people speak freely but as soon as one person or the next says something we can spin up for party favors, we conveniently forget it.

Back in 2004, I wrote to a GOP majority forum that one out of every two people you meet on the street, in the grocery store, at the gas station and even in the waiting room at the doctor's office, are your political opposites. If you want to live believing that roughly half of the US population are your enemies, then go ahead. Just don't include me in either group.

The same message goes to Democrat supporters. Roughly half of the population are your political opposites. Are they your fellow citizens and loyal opposition... or are they your blood enemies?

It's your call.

(By the way, if anyone wants to report me... the email addy is 'flag@whitehouse.gov)

...



Not just here, but on both sides.

a. mcewen · 4 months ago

The fact that you think someone is going to report you more than proves Mr. Schaeffer's point. It's gotten scary how people have become so damned paranoid over President Obama. And I fear that Mr. Schaeffer's conclusion of how this thing will end will be correct. Then what are we going to do?

mike_franklin · 4 months ago

<quote>"The fact that you think someone is going to report you more than proves Mr. Schaeffer's point."</quote>

The fact that there is an email addy to 'report' your fellow countrymen reeks.

<quote>"It's gotten scary how people have become so damned paranoid over President Obama."</quote>

It's gotten scary that we take politics as serious as this.

<quote>"And I fear that Mr. Schaeffer's conclusion of how this thing will end will be correct. Then what are we going to do?"</quote>

Go ahead, run screaming into the hills. Pull your hair out, do good drugs... the world is indeed ending. You will get points for use of tin foil and duct tape.

Geezus... is this REALLY what the left thinks?

You're lucky... I hate all politics but if I was a righter, I fire this up like a pack of Lucky's.

On the other hand, the right thinks you have already created a nude bomb so... what the heck. Go nekked and let's have a good show.

...

tim · 4 months ago

Report you? To who? Why?

Anyway, the only thing I know for sure abut half the population is that they are below average. :)

AnnieR · 4 months ago

You know, this you did it too attitude is just plain bs. The worst thing I saw said about Bush was somebody asking to please try and find a woman to give him a bj in the oval office, so we can get him out of office. Not, "kill him." There's a huge difference, HUGE.

mike_franklin · 4 months ago

You must have missed the marches in San Fransisco in 2004 and the ones in Washington in 2005.

I have no urge to get into a pissing match with anyone but... both sides play this game and have now for decades.

Hate Bush all you like. Other will hate Obama but do bear in mind that true hate is rare. It is, first of all, the opposite of true love and we know how hard it is to find that.

Let the politics glide off of you like water on a duck. Don't hate your fellow Americans for something as trivial as politics.

We can do better than this.

This will be my last post here. I have a life to attend. My best wishes to all...

...

RobertSanDimas · 4 months ago

Schaeffer is right. Scarily so. I'm glad Rachel let him go on because his perspective will probably surprise some of the lunatic religious nuts.
The most disturbing element to me in the American political scene is the absence of young people. Where are they? Why aren't they speaking up? When we see videos of the bizarre Town Hall Meetings the disrupters are all middle aged and older! I'm older (67) and as a college student we marched, carried banners, signs, spoke on "soapboxes" (have to admit, Berkeley, '64). You rarely hear of young activism now. Unfortunately, that's partially due to the undereducation of Americans. The language you hear from the disrupters is nonsense - throwing around terms they don't understand (fascism, communism as if they're the same thing). I would venture to say that the average age of posters on this blog is closer to 50 than 30. Perhaps the youth are so busy IMing, texting, facebooking, XYZing that they have no time to care about their future. Anybody agree?

tbhull · 4 months ago

Young people are bullet proof. They are not on death's doorstep and health care is of little or no interest to them.

Plus, the non-profits on both sides think old folks are more effective.

cole3244 · 4 months ago

hate then violence are the only weapons they have at their disposal, ideas or a real agenda are way above their intelligence level, fight fire with fire or lose the war.

Montiel · 4 months ago

What a breath of fresh air. Now if we can get at least one more person to speak out.

sfsgsggg · 4 months ago

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yankeebiz · 4 months ago

I watch Fox News with great frequency and have never seen anything on it as partisan or as charged as this clip with Rachel Maddow and Frank Schaeffer. I don't know anyone advocating violence. The fear of the right is limition to freedom. Freedom of press, religion, and so forth are tied to freedom to earn a living, provided through the system of capitalism which is seen as under attack. If you did not hear comparisons made between Hitler and George Bush, you have been living under a rock. I would speculate that if not publicly, Maddow and Shaeffer have made such comparisons privately. Were they calling for his assassination if doing so? We all cherish the freedoms which are provided in America. This piece is rubbish in its accusations and in how it foments and inspires rage and it is more harmful to honest debate than anything I have heard from the right.