AMERICAblog: Brutal murder of gay sailor increasingly looking suspicious, while Obama DOD (surprise) does nothing
Josh
· 4 months ago
It is true that gay servicemembers being harrassed report such harrassment at their own risk. I know because it happened to me. I am lucky that my command listened to my complaint and supported me. Obviously Provost was not so lucky. DADT does not just ruin careers, it KILLS.
dula
· 4 months ago
Now who was it who said that Gay people haven't suffered nearly as much as Black people. This man was murdered for being Gay, not Black.
ShirleyGoodnessanMercy
· 4 months ago
God knows blacks have suffered immeasurably. However, so have gays, but the problem is that so many of our murders were swept under the rug, lied about, and hidden... as were many murders of blacks and others.
dula
· 4 months ago
GLBTs don't go around claiming that only they know what real discrimination is...or trying to compare and contrast all minorities to decide which ones have suffered the most.
michtom
· 4 months ago
I think pushing this particular issue is self-defeating for LGBT people and alienating to black folks. Not because some people don't make claims like this one dula notes, but because bringing it up seems to lump all black people together.
What would be more productive, I think, is to recognize that some people are bigots and that all people working against bigotry should pull together, not snipe at one another.
"...though no one appears to learn very much from history, the rulers of empires assuredly learn the least. This unhappy failing will prove to be especially aggravated in the sense of the American rulers, who have never heard of history and who have never read it, who do not know what the passion of a people can withstand or what it can accomplish, or how fatal is the moment, for the kingdom, when the passion is driven underground." - from author James Baldwin, who was twice blessed: he was gay and black.
dula
· 4 months ago
I would love to work with Blacks who see that inequality for GLBTs, in principle, is the same fight that Blacks endured in the 60's Civil Rights Movement...but I can't hear them in the cacophony of bigotry that is perpetrated by the majority.
ShirleyGoodnessanMercy
· 4 months ago
No, but we are constantly being accused of doing so, even though I've never heard anyone do it. I have heard every other group say we never suffered, though, which is preposterous. All of humanity has suffered unimaginable cruelty.
Jophus
· 4 months ago
That point is paramount. How many crimes have there been that have been successful? How many deaths and beatings have there been that we haven't heard about?
With this policy it is impossible to know exactly what happens in the military domestically and abroad because those affected and witnessed cannot speak out. They likely fear a similar fate or simply can't risk their career.
ChitownKev
· 4 months ago
Who's to say that he wasn't murdered for being both? Actually, being black AND gay and it being somewhat known may have made Mr. Provost a very visible target.
MauraHennessey
· 4 months ago
Reverend Ken Hutcherson. And very recently
John: Well done. Don't let the b*stards sweep us all out of sight again.
NotTimothyGeithner
· 4 months ago
Didn't you hear his July 4th address? Its time for Americans to lead. He's just the President. He won a contest to live in a big house and get to be a celebrity for 4 years.
jeffg166
· 4 months ago
Obama is no Truman.
jlxn
· 4 months ago
You know what this will lead the foes of the 'mos to conclude?
This murder is an example of why gays should not be allowed to serve in the military. If this gay man was not in the Navy, he would not have offended the straight man and caused his own murder.
Jophus
· 4 months ago
The policy has shifted from Don't Ask Don't Tell to You Better Not Act Like Who You Are or Risk Getting Murdered. I feel sorry for the people out there like me. No matter how hard I try it is still obvious that I am gay.
Today we are supposed to celebrate our freedom by acting as straight as we can? How is that ok in America?
inlookout
· 4 months ago
I've been a loyal reader for some time but I am growing increasingly frustrated with the anti-Obama rhetoric here... Sure, some of it is deserved... but this?
"Obama administration investigators say it was just a random act of violence. Move right along."
Why are you equating the results of an internal investigation at Camp Pendleton to a message coming out of the Obama administration?
Tell us John, who at the administration said that? Was there a press release or a news conference or even an off the record statement? Give us a source please.
It seems to me John now uses every opportunity to trash the Obama administration, and twists the facts just enough so that it suits the meme he's been pushing the past several weeks. Ever since the "incest DOMA brief" John has been on a crusade to tear down this President, and even manages to cite the controversial brief again in the post above.
I fear the vitriol John is spreading here may ultimately do us more harm than good... Using misleading statements and applying guilt through the thinnest of associations does a disservice to the readers, and our cause.
CaenAshlar
· 4 months ago
i dont see you criticising Obama's inaction. that tells me all i need to know.
inlookout
· 4 months ago
And what is that exactly? That I'm an apologist? Did you bother to read the first paragraph, where I said that some of the rhetoric has been deserved?
And doesn't it make sense to let an internal investigation run it's course (which was JUST completed) before opening the door for the federal authorities step in?
mirth
· 4 months ago
I'm curious, inlookout.
If you find the "anti-Obama rhetoric" here disturbing, then why do you come here?
More importantly, why are you not calling out the administration's failure to deliver on campaign promises on a host of issues?
inlookout
· 4 months ago
I never said disturbing. I said frustrating. And not with all of it... go back and re-read it. I come here because Americablog is a news good source and most of the time I appreciate John's views.
And why are you questioning me for not following in lockstep with the criticisms leveled by you and others on this site? Am I not allowed to have somewhat different views?
I have already cited an example of how I believe John unfairly attributed the results of an internal investigation at a military base directly to the views of the Obama administration. And instead of trying to refute my statement and engage in a sensible discussion, my motives and lack of criticism is questioned. As one person has said, my lack of criticism tells them all they need to know..." I'm sorry that sounds a lot like something I would read when on a right-wing site.
Jophus
· 4 months ago
It should go without saying that we are going to question who you are and what your motives are when you come here and question us. It doesn't mean that we don't care or are upset with you.
I don't speak for anyone but myself and my words and actions are the direct response to the federal governments action or lack there of. I'm pissed. I am anti-Obama right now. A decent person does not sit back in luxury and ignore injustice like this. He knows what is going on and the only signals we are getting are negative ones.
I don't understand what you expect us to feel? If you are worried then maybe consider this is just a visceral reaction. I don't think mine is, though. I'm less about vigilante justice and more about proactive solutions. The thing is, everything is chaotic.
I don't care if everyone on this blog is hating on you, I'd like to hear your suggestions. Right now, in my opinion, there is no such thing as a stupid idea or suggestion. We need all the help we can get, friend.
inlookout
· 4 months ago
Jophus, thanks for the comment. I was never questioning the readers. I was questioning John's tactics. I get that he's angry. A lot of us are angry. I'm angry. DADT is an awful policy, and Obama should suspend it until it can be overturned congressionally. I think we all agree on that. I also think the DOMA briefly was very badly handled.
But I don't expect anyone to feel anything. I originally posted because I FELT John had unfairly attributed the results of an internal on-base investigation to the Obama administration. Here is portion of the article John linked to early in the post:
"Democratic Rep. Bob Filner of San Diego said Thursday he wants a Defense Department investigation into the death, after leaders of the city’s gay community asked him to intervene.
Investigators have called the sailor’s death a random act unrelated to the his sexuality and have taken a “person of interest” into custody. No charges have been filed."
It appears to me John married the passages together, creating the damning accusation that it was in fact the Obama administration's investigation which had determined that the "sailor's death was a random act unrelated to his sexuality." However no federal investigation has even taken place yet, and honestly shouldn't until the local one is complete. And now Rep. Bob Filner has asked for the DOD to investigate further, which is entirely appropriate. And this was yesterday. Friday. Fourth of July weekend.
I just think the way John has painted this is unfair and just stirs the pot of anti-Obamaism further. It even appears in the headline of his post. I find this and efforts like it damaging to our cause and credibility.
I think we can be honest and critical of the Obama administration without being misleading.
fuzzzy
· 4 months ago
amen to your last sentence!
caphillprof
· 4 months ago
Is Obama the "Commander in Chief", or is he not?
UncleBucky
· 4 months ago
I saw Bill Moyers last night. He had as his guests two faculty from the Union Theological Seminary and Cornel West:
The answer to inlookout and the rest is this. CRITICIZE. Otherwise it is not our country. Once we cannot criticize, then we have become another country with another constitution. But something Cornel West said grabbed me. Love through your criticism. Once you stop loving, and begin to throw words in hate, then YOU have lost the battle -- not the one who you are criticizing. Kay?
Ugh.
tdtr
· 4 months ago
But criticism has to come from facts in order to be meaningful. Criticizing the "Obama administration" for the failures of their investigation of Provost's murder isn't based on facts because the administration hasn't done any investigation. See the point?
We need to hold Obama's feet to the fire for the things that he and his have actually done, not stuff that is essentially made up of whole cloth.
UncleBucky
· 4 months ago
Agreed. Hold the man's feet to the fire. But don't insult him. Just take advantage of a "teachable moment". If you say you hate him just as we said we hated Bushie, Fallwell, and the rest, that is simply an insult.
You have no idea what cards we could have been dealt instead of Obama. And as I wrote above, that "what if" is very relevant because the same forces are trying to make 2012 theirs again. And, man, you will not want to be on a street corner if the Repubs regain power then. Such hooting and hollering, dumping people in creeks, tying people to fences and dragging people with chains will go on unabated.
We do not want to jinx this guy. But I agree, do NOT STOP criticizing.
Ugh.
jasonut29
· 4 months ago
1. Obama's attitude towards us is that "you guys" really means "you people" just the same as when the southerners talked about "you people" meanng the unworthy blacks at the time. He doesn't get that this is an issue of all of the people not just the "you people". 2. Barney has obviously decided to take the str8 boat on any gay issues and ignore as long as he can but why not he's a Dem and that's what that party is doing. 3. We are not the only people affected by DADT, DOMA or the lack of protection of ENDA...this is a national problem and as long as its tolerated by our lying leaders it will be acceptable to slander, kick and murder gay people in this country. 4. It is a sad day when the country that started the free world has leaders who are unwilling to grant the basic rights that are given us in our bill or rights AND the constitution. 5. To me the only acceptable solution that will open my wallet to any national Dem including the Pres is the successful repeal of DADT AND DOMA AND the successful adoption of ENDA. I am no longer willing to listen to them tell "you people" to set under the bus while they take care of more important things. Right now nothing is more important to me. I supported their massive increase of the deficeit and was trying to be patient BUT now after "the brief", the "tea party with the Pres" and all the talking down to us I am done with them unless they do it all for us...short of that I may commit the ultimate sin and vote for a bigot of a repub who will at least admit they don't support all our right but who may actually accept our right to marry or give us the leal right to commit to the man I love and to be able to provide insurance and inheritence to him.
Those who say I'm not being patient please remember...I'm over 50 and I have been patient and now I'm done....I hope to be in Washington in October and will continue to make as much noise as possible.
I now send at least two emails a week to the white house and to my congressmen. They may not even see them but someone is seeing them and they will know that the party is over as far as I'm concerned. I've been lied to enough!!!
Jophus
· 4 months ago
Regarding #4:
As a country, including gays (not just 3/5 of us), when we stopped fighting for war crime investigations and challenging indefinite detention, we effectively told our government that we may not be happy with, but will allow it to trample on basic civil liberties. Also consider that we did the same thing with warrant-less wiretappings.
Shame on us. Myself included.
charlesgerlach
· 4 months ago
John, you are wrong on this, and you know you are wrong (or should know). I understand the issues of DADT, DOMA and ENDA are important and emotional issues. As a progressive, I share your belief. However, you have lost perspective. You have become too close to the issue, too heated, too personal; you have lost objectivity. Obama is taking the crime seriously; they are investigating. They aren't making political hay by getting in front of a camera and making political points. They are, in short, acting like principaled law enforcement officials doing their job. You're so angry you are picking up every brick you can find and throwing it at the White House. Your reports (which I usually enjoy) are becoming angry screeds. You have, sir, lost your head.
UncleBucky
· 4 months ago
Charles, I certainly agree. However, we cannot stop sending notes, posting, etc. It must be done with the aim of guiding, not sabotaging the effort.
This is a murder on a US Marine Base. Murder is Murder. The hate crime WILL come up. But it is a murder, first and foremost. And those who looked the other way, those who did not make the base safe, THOSE will be put on display as criminals.
Not us. Not Obama.
We just have to be clever about it. ;-)
Ugh.
leliorisen
· 4 months ago
Gays who serve openly in the military of our allies are not getting killed.
It has to be disturbing that Americans have such a high level of homophobia, compared to our NATO neighbors.
It seems to me that America's military has a system more in common with the Taliban than with those who serve in Canada and Europe.
Some Muslim nations believe it is acceptable to execute gays, as well.
Jophus
· 4 months ago
You know another statistic America rises above the rest is Christians. I'm just sayin.
Gridlock
· 4 months ago
They should be dragged in the streets regarding this.
JohnnyG
· 4 months ago
Jesus, now he's even pissing on Matthew Shepard's grave.
Keith & Dustin
· 4 months ago
Hopefully this pathetic excuse of an administration will be over in 3 years. We shouldn't continue to have to wait and be patient for rights everyone else enjoys. This inequality is destructive to our nation but Obama can't even recognize that or appreciate the huge gay vote support he received. I'm registering as an independent and my money and vote will go to whomever can prove they will govern for the American people and not for the corporations.
Obama raised half a billion dollars from everyday Americans to support his presidency and all we got from it is a backhand from him once elected. Obama is just like every other politician, except his charisma is much more effective. I won't be so easily persuaded next time.
UncleBucky
· 4 months ago
Grow up. It is not just Keith and Dustin in the scales now. It is so much more. I understand your frustration.
But what would you say if by now McCain had his hot coronary and Palin signed an anti-sedition act against the likes of you and me?
Grow up.
Ugh.
Keith & Dustin
· 4 months ago
Uncle Bucky, You have an active imagination but your what if's are irrelevant. This isn't about what could have happened, it's about what is happening. I'm not one to sit back and reflect on what ifs because it does no good. I look at what is and what should be and with that attitude hopefully we will continue progressing instead of regressing with the what if argument.
And I am a grown up but thanks for the offer.
tdtr
· 4 months ago
What is exactly happening? The status quo. We're not losing ground. In case you hadn't noticed, courtesy our old friend the economic meltdown, none of Obama's proposed legislative agenda has moved anywhere. It's not even been six months and the entire time has been about putting out the money fires.
UncleBucky
· 4 months ago
Sorry fellas. I still think (as I wrote above) that if we get ahead of this, we could cause more harm than good. I realize that you are annoyed at the apparent backing out of promises. But I don't think that is the reality. There are SO MANY THINGS GOING ON that this is really (and it pains me to say this) a minor thing by comparison.
But as I wrote as well, can you please complain and criticize with love? Because if you do it with hate you may get even less than you think you will get.
And no, the what ifs are NOT irrelevant, because they ARE out there, trying to find ways to make use of YOUR IMPATIENCE and distractions to make the what if turn into their own 2012.
So, "patience is a virtue", eh?
Ugh.
bluebear
· 4 months ago
So the best we can say now is Obama is not Palin? What a low standard you have!
UncleBucky
· 4 months ago
And is your standard based in reality? DO YOU KNOW ALL OF THE FACTORS that are riding on this?
I don't like it any less than you do. I don't. But I am not going to trash this guy at this time like the rest of you are.
And again. I will say "grow up" and "be patient." But don't stop criticizing. Just do it with an aim to help, not to "knee cap" Obama. Because if you wind up screwing this by getting ahead of things, it will be your fault, not mine.
Ugh.
CaenAshlar
· 4 months ago
At Obama'a pr cocktail party a lot of "our leaders" looked thrilled to be there as he used them. Teenagers meeting a rock star have more dignity. There was a coach who said "act like you have been there before" to an exhibitionist goal scorer. I would like to see a post that identifies each of these people, the organisation they represent, and photos of them grinning like idiots next to Obama as he screws us.
DonG90806
· 4 months ago
You can see the picture and a list (at the bottom of the page) with their organizations at the following web site:
I'd like to see that post with photos as well. Their neglegence is dangerous at this point. I've been all over the place emotionally from sad, mad, pissed off, to seeing red. Now I'm honestly kind of scared.
Butch1
· 4 months ago
He'll make an appropriate speech and then, he will forget it. We shouldn't hold our collective breath in anticipation of Pres. Obama doing anything.
As Commander in Chief, the buck stops at his desk. He's in charge of what other soldiers are doing. If this is a random act, I would hate to see an hate crime committed on us.
UncleBucky
· 4 months ago
Spot on. He IS the Commander in Chief of all the military (but not of us, btw). And while he can't get personally involved, sidestepping the chain of command and due process, he can exert some leadership on this. But maybe it is more silent leadership that we are currently not seeing. Because if he DOES get obvious about this, there could be some repercussions.
However, I see it like this: "A murder of a military person ON BASE?" Ohhh some base commander should be handed his ass, regardless of whether the victim was gay, polka-dotted or whatever. Murder is murder.
Ugh.
Butch1
· 4 months ago
If he has some great plans, I would think there would be some signs of progress or at least, no back tracking. I personally, do not see him doing anything, let alone, a comment about what happened. ===================================== "Murder is murder." =======================================
Agreed, and this "person of interest" hasn't even been arrested or charged with the murder. This had better not be swept under the rug. When anyone is murdered on base, the buck does stop at the base commander and the company officer in charge. This needs to stay active and in the news for anything to happen. I think they may be depending upon this piece of news dying out.
UncleBucky
· 4 months ago
Right. And maybe what we should do is do some politics with Camp Pendleton? Do you have the oysters?
Tying someone up, shooting them three times in the head, then burning the body is no random act of violence. This is clearly pre-meditated, or looks enough so to investigate as it were.
Exhibit #1 why this whole DADT-thing needs to be dismantled and relegated ot he scrap heap of bad policy. This murder can be hung directly around Obama and Gates' necks.
RitornaVincitor
· 4 months ago
Thank you John for keeping up the pressure on the Obama administration. It's a real shame that the situation requires that we shame and humiliate them into keeping the promises Obama made to us, but that's the way it is. So far they have budged on some relatively minor issues, proving that they are not impervious to our criticism. But their tepid and timid response thus far has been the same kind of political game to which we are SO accustomed. This is NOT the new kind of politics that Obama promised. Thank you John for holding their collective feet to the fire.
fredndallas
· 4 months ago
You are exactly correct.
Personal shame and humiliation on Barack Obama for his outrageous betrayal and slick manipulation is the ONLY thing that is going to get traction for GLBT equality.
We MUST make it personal to Obama and his ego. He is the one who has decided to play it this way.
After all the issue is a little bit personal to us, no?
vkobaya
· 4 months ago
We MUST make it personal to Obama and his ego. He is the one who has decided to play it this way.
My gut feeling is that if you attack him personally, he's not likely to turn our way. The guy has real homophobia problems and personal attacks are more likely to confirm his hatred and further damage our cause with him. You can be critical with this guy, but personal attacks are going to make a savage enemy of him and we don't need that. Bush had to tap lightly around the gay issue because of Cheney's daughter, or we would probably have already been sent to the concentration camps and the funny showers. Hitler was killing gays even before he started on the final solution to exterminate the Jews and the far right in this country adores the man for that.
We escaped Bush by the skin of our teeth. Let's not push Obama to do what Bush couldn't.
UncleBucky
· 4 months ago
Agreed. I am not so sure of his homophobia, tho. I do think he channels a lot of that instead from backers, associates and independents.
But we do not want to attack him personally. I think it would be a real mistake, regardless.
Ugh.
Jophus
· 4 months ago
This situation of anti-gay crime is a tragedy by anyone's standards. I don't care if you personally don't like us, you have to agree that something needs to be done to protect the safety of the homosexual community. If you don't want us to get married, put that aside for a minute because surely you want us to be able to live.
If nothing is done and no examples are set these stories are just going to put ideas into people's head. Don't think that people that hate us aren't noticing that our government isn't pursuing investigations or punishment.
Obama, please help us be able to live without fear of violence. Please.
njprogressive
· 4 months ago
i don't think that people who make it a point to stand against marriage equality would feel bad when gay men and women are attacked or murdered because of their sexuality. their message is based around hate, and just like with the anti-choice crowd, violence seems to be an acceptable vehicle to get their point across. they are truly disgusting people.
Jophus
· 4 months ago
I can see how you can think that. I choose to believe that there is an inherent goodness inside most people. The people who do not practice moral and ethical behavior are not a proper representative of the general public, imho.
There are groups and people I don't like (Republicans for example), but I live my life practicing compassion, empathy, and general kindness. I respect their right to be who they are and do what they do.
I would speak against and fight as hard as I could if this was happening to the people who choose to utilize the Free Republic. I expect the same from my fellow citizens, especially those that consider themselves religious.
njprogressive
· 4 months ago
i see what you are saying. i wasn't trying to say that everyone in the anti marriage equality movement is capable of such coldblooded hate, it just seems that most of them are willing to turn a blind eye to it. their own version of dont ask dont tell.
also, to reply to what you were saying in some of your other comments, i served in the military for four year and was deployed in afghanistan for one of them. while i am not gay myself, i did have several friends in my unit who came out to me because it was apparent that i wouldn't judge them on something they had no control over. i saw what it did to them to try and hide who they were and i felt horrible and helpless at the same time. several of them were eventually discharged because they came out to the wrong person. it is a disgrace that this policy of DADT is still in practice today. no one should feel ashamed for who they are and no one should feel afraid or fear for their life for living how they want to.
Jophus
· 4 months ago
If nothing happens in the immediate future it is people like you who will eventually take senior positions and put things right for all Americans, concerning the military. For that I thank you.
Jophus
· 4 months ago
I'd also like to point out that this is growing more and more similar to what has been happening to us in Iraq while our government has turned a blind eye. What if we develop mobs that start killing us in the street like they are over there, will our government still keep silent?
This is truly building into something very very scary.
cowboyneok
· 4 months ago
Vote Vets has a good video about the unnecessary costs of "Don't Ask Don't Tell:"
Cowboy, I know you are extremely active regarding gay issues. Can you share some information with us like organizations that are helping, people who aren't, the best gay news sources, communities that are actively trying to come up with ideas, etc?
cowboyneok
· 4 months ago
Jophus, I think the state organizations seem to be more active on local issues but there seems to be a vacuum right now because we have counted on the groups in Washington, DC to successfully push our national agenda - DADT, DOMA and ENDA. So far, we haven't been getting desired results at all. In fact, like its been pointed out here, the Obama Admin seems to consider us a nuisance rather than work towards doing something substantial towards overturning Don't Ask / Don't Tell even when Obama claims keeping it in place damages national security.
UncleBucky
· 4 months ago
Who are the accused? Where are they from? What were their past actions regarding minorities?
A Navy seaman murdered *on a Marine base*. It don't make any difference whether he was gay, polka dotted or whatever. He was murdered ON BASE.
HUH?
cole3244
· 4 months ago
i guess racial bigotry is unacceptable but sexual intolerance is ok, i mean we all know that being gay is a choice just like being a person of color is, at least thats how the race baiting bigots of the world think.
GWMustGo
· 4 months ago
The bigots are afraid (for some reason) that President Obama will actually follow through on his campaign promises. Just as the racists in the South got more violent when the Civil Rights Movement was afoot, the anti-gay bigots are trying to us physical intimidation to keep gays down.
I really hope President Obama gets his act straight (no pun intended, but I'll take it), and pushes for the equal rights gays and lesbians deserve, and gets rid of DADT.
devlzadvocate
· 4 months ago
I wonder who he referred when he said, ". . . you guys will have a pretty good feeling about the Obama Administration . . ."
Those affected by DADT? Those affected by DOMA? Those affected by the lack of hate crimes legislation (who may be dead or handicapped)? Those affected by the offensive language used by the Administration? Those wined and dined during White House parties?
Was he just saying that to make himself feel good?
Do tell.
Gridlock
· 4 months ago
you guys = 'you people'
UncleBucky
· 4 months ago
No. Around Chicago, "you guys" is much more friendly than you think. It is more related to "you all" and "youse" than to "you people" or "them".
I use "you guys." "Hey, what are you guys doing? Wanna get a pizza?" or "You guys wanna come over by my house to see a movie?"
Easy does it. Patience is a virtue.
Ugh.
megatronbomb
· 4 months ago
I was under the impression it was said to make those in the LGBTQ community feel good so we'd open our wallets again.
Dateline_Molly
· 4 months ago
Never thought I'd say it, but this is worse than Bush.
jlxn
· 4 months ago
Not sure that he's worse than Bush, I guess saying one thing and doing another gives him a leg up... But I never believed that Obama would be our friend. Anyone who doesn't personally believe in us cannot be our friend and certainly would not risk political capital for us.
fredndallas
· 4 months ago
You are right but unfortunately it is FAR beyond Obama just not personally beliving in us.
This man has a deep, disturbing personal emotional problem with gay people. Review his absolute pattern of slamming back at us shortly after making any positive statement for GLBT equality. Apparently somehow he cannot allow any gay positive to stand for very long.
I'm sure he considered his gay cocktail party statement a positive. Stand by -- we will get the slam anytime now. (If we didn't already by the definitive statement from his operative that we can forget about progress on the issues we care most about, issued within a day or so of party time.)
Dateline_Molly
· 4 months ago
I think one could look at the "slam" following the cocktail party as turning a blind eye to the MURDER of a gay service member on a U.S. military base.
Disgusting. Obama just makes me more sick by the day. Jesus christ, we are not even 6 months into this corrupt, dishonest, and hate-based presidency.
MauraHennessey
· 4 months ago
Obama at the least believes that homophobia and transphobia are acceptable prejudices. Further, he is known to be afraid of a culture war with the Right,
Well, we are not afraid of it, because we have to fight it every day, and all too often are casualties of that war.
I despise Bush as much as the next person, but the truth is that Bush never misled anybody about GLBT issues the way Obama has. Bush was against ANY kind of equality but never weaseled around and pretended he was for it. Obama on the other hand ACTIVELY campaigned as a GLBT rights supporter. Actively.
There have been many discussions around the web about how Obama's "brand" is damaging progressive action to oppose him on a whole host of issues. Apparently it's good enough for progressives that he's "not Bush," or that he is African American, and it's hands off the pretzeldent. Don't make waves. Obama and his thugs are taking full advantage of this tack by doing the bidding of the ruling class and fundie Xtians knowing full well they are not being held accountable.
Keeping the heat on this clown is really important. We have to keep the pressure on. What I support is live action at the White House and around the country, non-stop. Get in their faces on it. 500,000 at the White House gates, 100,000 here, 50,000 there, all over the country, week after week after week. Same for health care when they sell us down the river on single payer. Direct action is really the answer.
Rep. Bob Filner (D) of California is doing some great work on this case and is openly calling DADT a mistake. I'm calling his office on Monday to thank him. Let's keep the pressure up!
Indigo
· 4 months ago
No matter what they say about President Obama, he has a lovely wife!
Gridlock
· 4 months ago
Maybe she can knock some sense into him with those killer guns
Barney Frank's comment was . . . um . . . Barney? . . . we're waiting for your distinguished leadership here . . .
Jophus
· 4 months ago
Just out of curiosity, do you or anyone else have links to video or statements made by Frank? I'm pretty much in the dark regarding his stance. I would really appreciate it.
I'd like to donate what ever I am able to help the best effort. I just don't know what my options are.
Indigo
· 4 months ago
As far as I know, he hasn't said a thing.
Jophus
· 4 months ago
Suddenly, your comment makes total sense to me now. I have no idea what I thought you meant. It was the cannabis asking questions. Sorry. :-D
Jophus
· 4 months ago
I was searching for an interview or speech, but couldn't find one. These are the only recent documents I've found so far on Frank regarding gay issues. They are both from his site. If I find anything else tonight I'll post that too.
Letter to Pres. about DADT on 6-22 signed by other congressmen as well.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
It's the 4th, but partner and I are not celebrating. The words of the Declaration of Independence ring hollow; we are not equals of our straight counterparts in this country. The story of this murder another example of the inequality.
We are angry at the President and his administration, and we are angry that our civil rights keep getting sidelined.
We are also disappointed by the big progressive organizations for leaving us out in the cold. Check out MoveOn's website and Democracy for America's website. If there is any mention of equality for GLBT Americans on those websites, we failed to find it.
scottinsf
· 4 months ago
The ACLU has always fought hard for us and they are always a good group to support. I also think they've actually fought harder for transgender civil rights than most of the so-called GLBT groups ever have.
Zorba
· 4 months ago
Besides the ACLU, People for the American Way also works hard for GLBT equality, and an end to DOMA and DADT. I'm a long-time supporter of both groups.
scottinsf
· 4 months ago
Absolutely! I completely spaced off not also mentioning PFAW. Their recent open letter to President Obama was awesome and showed they are behind us 100%. If HRC, NGLTF, and GLAAD want to remain relevant they better learn a thing or two about standing up and fighting from PFAW.
Jophus
· 4 months ago
I like that a lot. Along with posts about the people and organizations sitting idle, can we please get posts highlighting those who are actively helping? I would like to know who they are, just to tell them thank you.
So we can't serve in the military, we can't get married, we can't adopt kids, and now we aren't getting the equal protection for our physical well being under the law like your average person the street.
How is it ok in anyone's mind that we pay a disproportionate amount of taxes and everyone else enjoys the benefits from our blood, sweat, and tears? Everyone but us.
Keith & Dustin
· 4 months ago
Straight illegal immigrants have more rights in our country than I do, while I pay thousands every year in taxes and they pay zero. That is disgusting to me and it shows exactly what our country thinks of us. However, they wont blink an eye about taking our money.
tdtr
· 4 months ago
That's actually factually inaccurate. Undocumented workers using faked information for work are actually paying into the system, including social security and medicare taxes which they will never see any return on. But that's a whole other story and entirely off-topic in this thread.
fuzzzy
· 4 months ago
how dare you use FACTS to bolster your arguments!
politicky
· 4 months ago
Surprising? Nope. Gay corpsman are mostly safe if they live and work around Naval Hospital San Diego, but stationed on Pendleton after 7 years of these guys having been deployed multiple times? Woudn't count on it.
Michael
· 4 months ago
Very sad. I hope the people who killed him are treated the same way.
UncleBucky
· 4 months ago
Do you? Then you are in as much trouble with your ethics as the party/parties of interest.
We don't want any more murders. DO WE? Dang, I thought revenge went out when Jesus told us what to do.... ;-)
Ugh.
jimstoic
· 4 months ago
Can the president not understand that DADT creates a culture in which this kind of violence is inevitable?
UncleBucky
· 4 months ago
Jim. DADT is not the first cause. By that I mean, there is a whole background there that precedes, is behind and direct DADT and the actions of those who can hide behind it.
Simply changing DADT won't work. In fact, removing it might actually create some real hurt and death. There are crazies on those bases, particularly those who were "given the store" by the idiot of the last term, and who think they can do anything they want and not get caught.
It's the culture that makes for allied armed forces with GLBT service members not living in fear. It's also the culture that facilitated this act. It's the same culture that facilitated the murders of Emmett Till, Matthew Shephard, James Byrd, and so many more.
You gotta change the culture, too. And removing DADT goes ahead of the culture change, and that will wind up biting us in the butt.
Ugh.
CTPatriot
· 4 months ago
This is absolute nonsense, Uncle Bucky. When Truman integrated the military, it was only supported by some 13% of Americans. But rather than waiting for society to come around, he had the courage to lead society in the right direction. That's what real leaders do.
And arguably, Truman's decision to integrate the military played a role in society learning that blacks and whites really CAN work and live side by side, in complete harmony. In other words, he helped bring about culture change.
Truman did this via executive order. Obama could do the same to end discharges due to DADT while he pressures congress to end the policy. How you and others can excuse his inaction as warranted and pragmatic is beyond me.
UncleBucky
· 4 months ago
Cripes! I agree with you. But it's not JUST changing DADT, the culture change has to happen too. In the case of your statistic, maybe 13% of the troops didn't support it. However, from above, those officers who went into their hearts and ethics realized that a segregated military wasn't going to be healthy and it wasn't going to be effective at achieving objectives. SO, while I don't have the stats, I believe that where it counted, the military command realized that it WAS the correct thing to do, too. However, if the order to integrate was forced down too many high ranking throats, without them already realizing they were wrong, then, no, it would have been in as much trouble as the move to repeal DADT.
Personally, I think that ethically-mature officers DO realize DADT is wrong and should go, but they also realize that at present, it will be destructive to achieving military goals.
I am NOT excusing. I am explaining. I agree that DADT is wrong. But just I think that taking the tops off of mountains in West VA is wrong, tell me, how are you going to implement stopping that in our current situation.
I say that it is IMPLEMENTATION, not ETHICS that is the problem here. ;-)
Ugh.
michtom
· 4 months ago
I strongly recommend that people read the chronology of desegregation in the armed forces. The executive order was issued July 26, 1948.
July 26, 1951: The Army announces that the integration of all its units in Korea, Japan and Okinawa will be completed within six months.
October 1953: The Army announces that 95% of African-American soldiers are serving in integrated units.
Thanks for this post! We need the facts to guide us.
However, do we have ALL of the facts in the current tragedy? ;-)
Ugh.
michtom
· 4 months ago
You seem, Bucky, to be quite concerned about being polite. I personally recommend that it is past time to worry about hurting Obama's feelings. He certainly couldn't give a damn about yours.
He has overtly and powerfully showed that he will not do anything to get rid of DOMA or DADT. He wants Congress to do it all.
Additionally, he has taken affirmative action to continue Bush's fraudulent interpretation of the state secrets privilege; he is seriously proposing preventive detention and a new court system designed to ensure that wherever a detainee turns (and remember that can be a person born and raised in the US), s/he will face conviction; he has stated that he will sacrifice the public option for a "bipartisan" health bill.
Remember, these are things that he's done already, not things people want him to do and are impatient about.
Obama is not your ally now and there is no good reason that he will pull off his suit and reveal his tights and cape to let us know he is really SuperLiberal.
The suit is who he is. He wouldn't put on a cape for a drag ball.
It is time, Bucky boy, to start gathering around allies to find a real progressive for the 2012 election, 'cause it ain't Obushma.
UncleBucky
· 4 months ago
Babe, you are falling exactly the way the GOPers want you to.
Divide and conquer, is their scheme. And you are falling for it and you will cause a Palin or a Romney to be elected.
THEN you will start whining about how will you get into Canada, Netherlands or Spain...
Good luck. Remember, you are in the databases.
Ugh.
michtom
· 4 months ago
I have been in the databases since the early '70s, at least. So what?
I don't ever whine. I think that your constant worry about hurting Obama's feelings is a lot closer to whining than anything I've said.
Progressives have to apply pressure to Obama and the pseudo-Dems in Congress. The only way we get them to move is if they fear for their re-election.
The division they set up is the one you seem to represent: the folks like you, who are worried they will alienate people who are NOT their allies anyway vs the folks like me, who want, and are willing to work for change.
I don't think—despite the comment above—that you don't want change. I think you are fearful of what change requires: you and your allies will be separated from the umbilical cord of the Democratic party.
We must be willing to do that, or we get nothing but contempt from the folks in power.
UncleBucky
· 4 months ago
Last item. I don't fear offending him or his team. I just don't think that at this point we want to divide on something that hasn't happened yet.
Yet at the same time, criticize and do it with the data. He respects data, so use it.
But don't let's descend to the level of Limbaugh, Hannity or Savage. That is not who we are.
Ugh. This thread's tapped out.
UncleBucky
· 4 months ago
From the Truman Library:
November 1947: Clark Clifford presents a lengthy memorandum to President Truman which argues that the civil rights issue and the African-American vote are important elements in a winning strategy for the 1948 campaign.
January 1948: President Truman decides to end segregation in the armed forces and the civil service through administrative action (executive order) rather than through legislation.
Apparent facts:
1. There were enough blacks in 1948 to sway the election.
2. GLBT people on this site say they will NOT vote for Obama in 2012. Presumably there are GLBT organizations who will recommend voting for Mickey Mouse instead of Obama because of their dissatisfaction with progress on Equal Marriage, DOM Act and DADT.
3. What would you do with regard to the GLBT vote? Sounds to me that GLBT people would be cut loose in this climate.
THINK!
Ugh.
UncleBucky
· 4 months ago
And:
January 12, 1949: The Fahy Committee holds its first meeting with President Truman and the Secretaries of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Defense. "I want the job done," the President said, "and I want it done in a way so that everyone will be happy to cooperate to get it done."
How can we have the job done so that everyone will be happy to cooperate?
See Prop 8 - The Musical, with Jack Black for some ideas.
I'm only saying, the negative approach will blow up in your collective faces, *you guys*. ;-)
Ugh.
jimstoic
· 4 months ago
The government's tacit approval of homophobia is not the only cause of this kind of violence, and I didn't say it was, but DADT makes it seem like the government is okay with the treating LGBT people a lesser Americans. That's wrong.
The majority of Americans, even the majority of conservatives, want to end DADT.
What is the difference between Matt Shephard or August Provost III AND executions of gay kids in Iran by that brutal government? Zip. Zero. Nada. Nichts.
Marines are built to kill anyone they can objectionalize, and I suppose that it is easy for them to objectionalize GLBT people, women, old people, brown people, Muslim people and other non-Marine. (OR? Someone give me evidence of the contrary!) They are taught to objectionalize people. Jesus taught his people to subjectionalize people, treat them in an I/Thou relationship.
I wonder how many Fundies truly abhor this murder? Heh.
Ugh.
Jophus
· 4 months ago
Public Service Announcement:
If you live in TN watch your ass next time you go to a gay bar. It will be legal to carry a gun into a bar like next week, I believe.
ChitownKev
· 4 months ago
John,
This black gay man says thank you.
Jason Van Steenwyk
· 4 months ago
No, it wasn't because of the DADT policy. It was because of the UCMJ. Had there never been a DADT policy, Provost would have been in the exact same position. DADT has nothing to do with this case at all.
The issue is the UCMJ, not DADT. Until Congress changes the UCMJ, it's still the law of the land.
bluebear
· 4 months ago
Torture and war crimes are agin' the "Law Of The LAND!!tm" as well.... But Obama has no taste for prosecuting that particular "Law Of The LAND!!tm" . Gays in the military on the other hand, why, that's against the "Law Of The LAND!!tm"
Steve
· 4 months ago
It's sounds like DADT, not UCMJ, was the problem. What's your theory?
If the problem was that he couldn't complain about harassment for fear of getting discharged, that's a DADT issue. The UCMJ doesn't say anything about acknowledging you're gay; it just bans oral and anal sex. And it's my understanding that the military isn't even prosecuting those unless there was rape or a minor or something like that involved because to do otherwise might be unconstitutional under the Supreme Court's Lawrence v. Texas decision.
I agree that the UCMJ needs to be amended to make clear that consensual acts aren't a crime. But this particular incident seems to have more to do with DADT.
michtom
· 4 months ago
Totally an aside, but I thought Capt Matt Brown sounded gay.
And I thought it was interesting that Brown's public statement did not talk about Provost's fairly out gay identity.
All Comments
What would be more productive, I think, is to recognize that some people are bigots and that all people working against bigotry should pull together, not snipe at one another.
"...though no one appears to learn very much from history, the rulers of empires assuredly learn the least. This unhappy failing will prove to be especially aggravated in the sense of the American rulers, who have never heard of history and who have never read it, who do not know what the passion of a people can withstand or what it can accomplish, or how fatal is the moment, for the kingdom, when the passion is driven underground." - from author James Baldwin, who was twice blessed: he was gay and black.
With this policy it is impossible to know exactly what happens in the military domestically and abroad because those affected and witnessed cannot speak out. They likely fear a similar fate or simply can't risk their career.
John: Well done.
Don't let the b*stards sweep us all out of sight again.
This murder is an example of why gays should not be allowed to serve in the military. If this gay man was not in the Navy, he would not have offended the straight man and caused his own murder.
Today we are supposed to celebrate our freedom by acting as straight as we can? How is that ok in America?
"Obama administration investigators say it was just a random act of violence. Move right along."
Why are you equating the results of an internal investigation at Camp Pendleton to a message coming out of the Obama administration?
Tell us John, who at the administration said that? Was there a press release or a news conference or even an off the record statement? Give us a source please.
It seems to me John now uses every opportunity to trash the Obama administration, and twists the facts just enough so that it suits the meme he's been pushing the past several weeks. Ever since the "incest DOMA brief" John has been on a crusade to tear down this President, and even manages to cite the controversial brief again in the post above.
I fear the vitriol John is spreading here may ultimately do us more harm than good... Using misleading statements and applying guilt through the thinnest of associations does a disservice to the readers, and our cause.
And doesn't it make sense to let an internal investigation run it's course (which was JUST completed) before opening the door for the federal authorities step in?
If you find the "anti-Obama rhetoric" here disturbing, then why do you come here?
More importantly, why are you not calling out the administration's failure to deliver on campaign promises on a host of issues?
And why are you questioning me for not following in lockstep with the criticisms leveled by you and others on this site? Am I not allowed to have somewhat different views?
I have already cited an example of how I believe John unfairly attributed the results of an internal investigation at a military base directly to the views of the Obama administration. And instead of trying to refute my statement and engage in a sensible discussion, my motives and lack of criticism is questioned. As one person has said, my lack of criticism tells them all they need to know..." I'm sorry that sounds a lot like something I would read when on a right-wing site.
I don't speak for anyone but myself and my words and actions are the direct response to the federal governments action or lack there of. I'm pissed. I am anti-Obama right now. A decent person does not sit back in luxury and ignore injustice like this. He knows what is going on and the only signals we are getting are negative ones.
I don't understand what you expect us to feel? If you are worried then maybe consider this is just a visceral reaction. I don't think mine is, though. I'm less about vigilante justice and more about proactive solutions. The thing is, everything is chaotic.
I don't care if everyone on this blog is hating on you, I'd like to hear your suggestions. Right now, in my opinion, there is no such thing as a stupid idea or suggestion. We need all the help we can get, friend.
But I don't expect anyone to feel anything. I originally posted because I FELT John had unfairly attributed the results of an internal on-base investigation to the Obama administration. Here is portion of the article John linked to early in the post:
"Democratic Rep. Bob Filner of San Diego said Thursday he wants a Defense Department investigation into the death, after leaders of the city’s gay community asked him to intervene.
Investigators have called the sailor’s death a random act unrelated to the his sexuality and have taken a “person of interest” into custody. No charges have been filed."
It appears to me John married the passages together, creating the damning accusation that it was in fact the Obama administration's investigation which had determined that the "sailor's death was a random act unrelated to his sexuality." However no federal investigation has even taken place yet, and honestly shouldn't until the local one is complete. And now Rep. Bob Filner has asked for the DOD to investigate further, which is entirely appropriate. And this was yesterday. Friday. Fourth of July weekend.
I just think the way John has painted this is unfair and just stirs the pot of anti-Obamaism further. It even appears in the headline of his post. I find this and efforts like it damaging to our cause and credibility.
I think we can be honest and critical of the Obama administration without being misleading.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07032009/prof...
The answer to inlookout and the rest is this. CRITICIZE. Otherwise it is not our country. Once we cannot criticize, then we have become another country with another constitution. But something Cornel West said grabbed me. Love through your criticism. Once you stop loving, and begin to throw words in hate, then YOU have lost the battle -- not the one who you are criticizing. Kay?
Ugh.
We need to hold Obama's feet to the fire for the things that he and his have actually done, not stuff that is essentially made up of whole cloth.
You have no idea what cards we could have been dealt instead of Obama. And as I wrote above, that "what if" is very relevant because the same forces are trying to make 2012 theirs again. And, man, you will not want to be on a street corner if the Repubs regain power then. Such hooting and hollering, dumping people in creeks, tying people to fences and dragging people with chains will go on unabated.
We do not want to jinx this guy. But I agree, do NOT STOP criticizing.
Ugh.
2. Barney has obviously decided to take the str8 boat on any gay issues and ignore as long as he can but why not he's a Dem and that's what that party is doing.
3. We are not the only people affected by DADT, DOMA or the lack of protection of ENDA...this is a national problem and as long as its tolerated by our lying leaders it will be acceptable to slander, kick and murder gay people in this country.
4. It is a sad day when the country that started the free world has leaders who are unwilling to grant the basic rights that are given us in our bill or rights AND the constitution.
5. To me the only acceptable solution that will open my wallet to any national Dem including the Pres is the successful repeal of DADT AND DOMA AND the successful adoption of ENDA. I am no longer willing to listen to them tell "you people" to set under the bus while they take care of more important things. Right now nothing is more important to me. I supported their massive increase of the deficeit and was trying to be patient BUT now after "the brief", the "tea party with the Pres" and all the talking down to us I am done with them unless they do it all for us...short of that I may commit the ultimate sin and vote for a bigot of a repub who will at least admit they don't support all our right but who may actually accept our right to marry or give us the leal right to commit to the man I love and to be able to provide insurance and inheritence to him.
Those who say I'm not being patient please remember...I'm over 50 and I have been patient and now I'm done....I hope to be in Washington in October and will continue to make as much noise as possible.
I now send at least two emails a week to the white house and to my congressmen. They may not even see them but someone is seeing them and they will know that the party is over as far as I'm concerned. I've been lied to enough!!!
As a country, including gays (not just 3/5 of us), when we stopped fighting for war crime investigations and challenging indefinite detention, we effectively told our government that we may not be happy with, but will allow it to trample on basic civil liberties. Also consider that we did the same thing with warrant-less wiretappings.
Shame on us. Myself included.
This is a murder on a US Marine Base. Murder is Murder. The hate crime WILL come up. But it is a murder, first and foremost. And those who looked the other way, those who did not make the base safe, THOSE will be put on display as criminals.
Not us. Not Obama.
We just have to be clever about it. ;-)
Ugh.
It has to be disturbing that Americans have such a high level of homophobia, compared to our NATO neighbors.
It seems to me that America's military has a system more in common with the Taliban than with those who serve in Canada and Europe.
Some Muslim nations believe it is acceptable to execute gays, as well.
Obama raised half a billion dollars from everyday Americans to support his presidency and all we got from it is a backhand from him once elected. Obama is just like every other politician, except his charisma is much more effective. I won't be so easily persuaded next time.
But what would you say if by now McCain had his hot coronary and Palin signed an anti-sedition act against the likes of you and me?
Grow up.
Ugh.
And I am a grown up but thanks for the offer.
But as I wrote as well, can you please complain and criticize with love? Because if you do it with hate you may get even less than you think you will get.
And no, the what ifs are NOT irrelevant, because they ARE out there, trying to find ways to make use of YOUR IMPATIENCE and distractions to make the what if turn into their own 2012.
So, "patience is a virtue", eh?
Ugh.
I don't like it any less than you do. I don't. But I am not going to trash this guy at this time like the rest of you are.
And again. I will say "grow up" and "be patient." But don't stop criticizing. Just do it with an aim to help, not to "knee cap" Obama. Because if you wind up screwing this by getting ahead of things, it will be your fault, not mine.
Ugh.
http://www.towleroad.com/2009/06/obamas-white-h...
As Commander in Chief, the buck stops at his desk. He's in charge of what other soldiers are doing. If this is a random act, I would hate to see an hate crime committed on us.
However, I see it like this: "A murder of a military person ON BASE?" Ohhh some base commander should be handed his ass, regardless of whether the victim was gay, polka-dotted or whatever. Murder is murder.
Ugh.
=====================================
"Murder is murder."
=======================================
Agreed, and this "person of interest" hasn't even been arrested or charged with the murder. This had better not be swept under the rug. When anyone is murdered on base, the buck does stop at the base commander and the company officer in charge. This needs to stay active and in the news for anything to happen. I think they may be depending upon this piece of news dying out.
Camp Pendleton:
http://www.cpp.usmc.mil/
Colonel Nicholas F. Marano, Commanding Officer
http://www.pendleton.usmc.mil/baseco/biography.asp
Ugh.
This is clearly pre-meditated, or looks enough so to investigate as it were.
Exhibit #1 why this whole DADT-thing needs to be dismantled and relegated ot he scrap heap of bad policy.
This murder can be hung directly around Obama and Gates' necks.
Personal shame and humiliation on Barack Obama for his outrageous betrayal and slick manipulation is the ONLY thing that is going to get traction for GLBT equality.
We MUST make it personal to Obama and his ego. He is the one who has decided to play it this way.
After all the issue is a little bit personal to us, no?
My gut feeling is that if you attack him personally, he's not likely to turn our way. The guy has real homophobia problems and personal attacks are more likely to confirm his hatred and further damage our cause with him. You can be critical with this guy, but personal attacks are going to make a savage enemy of him and we don't need that. Bush had to tap lightly around the gay issue because of Cheney's daughter, or we would probably have already been sent to the concentration camps and the funny showers. Hitler was killing gays even before he started on the final solution to exterminate the Jews and the far right in this country adores the man for that.
We escaped Bush by the skin of our teeth. Let's not push Obama to do what Bush couldn't.
But we do not want to attack him personally. I think it would be a real mistake, regardless.
Ugh.
If nothing is done and no examples are set these stories are just going to put ideas into people's head. Don't think that people that hate us aren't noticing that our government isn't pursuing investigations or punishment.
Obama, please help us be able to live without fear of violence. Please.
There are groups and people I don't like (Republicans for example), but I live my life practicing compassion, empathy, and general kindness. I respect their right to be who they are and do what they do.
I would speak against and fight as hard as I could if this was happening to the people who choose to utilize the Free Republic. I expect the same from my fellow citizens, especially those that consider themselves religious.
also, to reply to what you were saying in some of your other comments, i served in the military for four year and was deployed in afghanistan for one of them. while i am not gay myself, i did have several friends in my unit who came out to me because it was apparent that i wouldn't judge them on something they had no control over. i saw what it did to them to try and hide who they were and i felt horrible and helpless at the same time. several of them were eventually discharged because they came out to the wrong person. it is a disgrace that this policy of DADT is still in practice today. no one should feel ashamed for who they are and no one should feel afraid or fear for their life for living how they want to.
This is truly building into something very very scary.
http://www.intheirboots.com/itb/index.php?optio...
"In their boots"
He was MURDERED ON BASE, at Camp Pendleton:
http://www.cpp.usmc.mil/
Colonel Nicholas F. Marano, Commanding Officer
http://www.pendleton.usmc.mil/baseco/biography.asp
A Navy seaman murdered *on a Marine base*. It don't make any difference whether he was gay, polka dotted or whatever. He was murdered ON BASE.
HUH?
I really hope President Obama gets his act straight (no pun intended, but I'll take it), and pushes for the equal rights gays and lesbians deserve, and gets rid of DADT.
Those affected by DADT? Those affected by DOMA? Those affected by the lack of hate crimes legislation (who may be dead or handicapped)? Those affected by the offensive language used by the Administration? Those wined and dined during White House parties?
Was he just saying that to make himself feel good?
Do tell.
I use "you guys." "Hey, what are you guys doing? Wanna get a pizza?" or "You guys wanna come over by my house to see a movie?"
Easy does it. Patience is a virtue.
Ugh.
This man has a deep, disturbing personal emotional problem with gay people. Review his absolute pattern of slamming back at us shortly after making any positive statement for GLBT equality. Apparently somehow he cannot allow any gay positive to stand for very long.
I'm sure he considered his gay cocktail party statement a positive. Stand by -- we will get the slam anytime now. (If we didn't already by the definitive statement from his operative that we can forget about progress on the issues we care most about, issued within a day or so of party time.)
Disgusting. Obama just makes me more sick by the day. Jesus christ, we are not even 6 months into this corrupt, dishonest, and hate-based presidency.
Well, we are not afraid of it, because we have to fight it every day, and all too often are casualties of that war.
There have been many discussions around the web about how Obama's "brand" is damaging progressive action to oppose him on a whole host of issues. Apparently it's good enough for progressives that he's "not Bush," or that he is African American, and it's hands off the pretzeldent. Don't make waves. Obama and his thugs are taking full advantage of this tack by doing the bidding of the ruling class and fundie Xtians knowing full well they are not being held accountable.
Keeping the heat on this clown is really important. We have to keep the pressure on. What I support is live action at the White House and around the country, non-stop. Get in their faces on it. 500,000 at the White House gates, 100,000 here, 50,000 there, all over the country, week after week after week. Same for health care when they sell us down the river on single payer. Direct action is really the answer.
I'd like to donate what ever I am able to help the best effort. I just don't know what my options are.
Letter to Pres. about DADT on 6-22 signed by other congressmen as well.
http://www.house.gov/frank/letters/2009/06-22-0...
An apology-damage control press release on DOMA 6-17
http://www.house.gov/frank/pressreleases/2009/0...
It's the 4th, but partner and I are not celebrating. The words of the Declaration of Independence ring hollow; we are not equals of our straight counterparts in this country. The story of this murder another example of the inequality.
We are angry at the President and his administration, and we are angry that our civil rights keep getting sidelined.
We are also disappointed by the big progressive organizations for leaving us out in the cold. Check out MoveOn's website and Democracy for America's website. If there is any mention of equality for GLBT Americans on those websites, we failed to find it.
This will explain where MoveOn is.
How is it ok in anyone's mind that we pay a disproportionate amount of taxes and everyone else enjoys the benefits from our blood, sweat, and tears? Everyone but us.
We don't want any more murders. DO WE? Dang, I thought revenge went out when Jesus told us what to do.... ;-)
Ugh.
Simply changing DADT won't work. In fact, removing it might actually create some real hurt and death. There are crazies on those bases, particularly those who were "given the store" by the idiot of the last term, and who think they can do anything they want and not get caught.
It's the culture that makes for allied armed forces with GLBT service members not living in fear. It's also the culture that facilitated this act. It's the same culture that facilitated the murders of Emmett Till, Matthew Shephard, James Byrd, and so many more.
You gotta change the culture, too. And removing DADT goes ahead of the culture change, and that will wind up biting us in the butt.
Ugh.
And arguably, Truman's decision to integrate the military played a role in society learning that blacks and whites really CAN work and live side by side, in complete harmony. In other words, he helped bring about culture change.
Truman did this via executive order. Obama could do the same to end discharges due to DADT while he pressures congress to end the policy. How you and others can excuse his inaction as warranted and pragmatic is beyond me.
Personally, I think that ethically-mature officers DO realize DADT is wrong and should go, but they also realize that at present, it will be destructive to achieving military goals.
I am NOT excusing. I am explaining. I agree that DADT is wrong. But just I think that taking the tops off of mountains in West VA is wrong, tell me, how are you going to implement stopping that in our current situation.
I say that it is IMPLEMENTATION, not ETHICS that is the problem here. ;-)
Ugh.
July 26, 1951: The Army announces that the integration of all its units in Korea, Japan and Okinawa will be completed within six months.
October 1953: The Army announces that 95% of African-American soldiers are serving in integrated units.
The whole thing is here: http://tinyurl.com/nxt8l
However, do we have ALL of the facts in the current tragedy? ;-)
Ugh.
He has overtly and powerfully showed that he will not do anything to get rid of DOMA or DADT. He wants Congress to do it all.
Additionally, he has taken affirmative action to continue Bush's fraudulent interpretation of the state secrets privilege; he is seriously proposing preventive detention and a new court system designed to ensure that wherever a detainee turns (and remember that can be a person born and raised in the US), s/he will face conviction; he has stated that he will sacrifice the public option for a "bipartisan" health bill.
Remember, these are things that he's done already, not things people want him to do and are impatient about.
Obama is not your ally now and there is no good reason that he will pull off his suit and reveal his tights and cape to let us know he is really SuperLiberal.
The suit is who he is. He wouldn't put on a cape for a drag ball.
It is time, Bucky boy, to start gathering around allies to find a real progressive for the 2012 election, 'cause it ain't Obushma.
Divide and conquer, is their scheme. And you are falling for it and you will cause a Palin or a Romney to be elected.
THEN you will start whining about how will you get into Canada, Netherlands or Spain...
Good luck. Remember, you are in the databases.
Ugh.
I don't ever whine. I think that your constant worry about hurting Obama's feelings is a lot closer to whining than anything I've said.
Progressives have to apply pressure to Obama and the pseudo-Dems in Congress. The only way we get them to move is if they fear for their re-election.
The division they set up is the one you seem to represent: the folks like you, who are worried they will alienate people who are NOT their allies anyway vs the folks like me, who want, and are willing to work for change.
I don't think—despite the comment above—that you don't want change. I think you are fearful of what change requires: you and your allies will be separated from the umbilical cord of the Democratic party.
We must be willing to do that, or we get nothing but contempt from the folks in power.
Yet at the same time, criticize and do it with the data. He respects data, so use it.
But don't let's descend to the level of Limbaugh, Hannity or Savage. That is not who we are.
Ugh. This thread's tapped out.
November 1947: Clark Clifford presents a lengthy memorandum to President Truman which argues that the civil rights issue and the African-American vote are important elements in a winning strategy for the 1948 campaign.
January 1948: President Truman decides to end segregation in the armed forces and the civil service through administrative action (executive order) rather than through legislation.
Apparent facts:
1. There were enough blacks in 1948 to sway the election.
2. GLBT people on this site say they will NOT vote for Obama in 2012. Presumably there are GLBT organizations who will recommend voting for Mickey Mouse instead of Obama because of their dissatisfaction with progress on Equal Marriage, DOM Act and DADT.
3. What would you do with regard to the GLBT vote? Sounds to me that GLBT people would be cut loose in this climate.
THINK!
Ugh.
January 12, 1949: The Fahy Committee holds its first meeting with President Truman and the Secretaries of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Defense. "I want the job done," the President said, "and I want it done in a way so that everyone will be happy to cooperate to get it done."
How can we have the job done so that everyone will be happy to cooperate?
See Prop 8 - The Musical, with Jack Black for some ideas.
I'm only saying, the negative approach will blow up in your collective faces, *you guys*. ;-)
Ugh.
The majority of Americans, even the majority of conservatives, want to end DADT.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/120764/Conservatives...
Marines are built to kill anyone they can objectionalize, and I suppose that it is easy for them to objectionalize GLBT people, women, old people, brown people, Muslim people and other non-Marine. (OR? Someone give me evidence of the contrary!) They are taught to objectionalize people. Jesus taught his people to subjectionalize people, treat them in an I/Thou relationship.
I wonder how many Fundies truly abhor this murder? Heh.
Ugh.
If you live in TN watch your ass next time you go to a gay bar. It will be legal to carry a gun into a bar like next week, I believe.
This black gay man says thank you.
The issue is the UCMJ, not DADT. Until Congress changes the UCMJ, it's still the law of the land.
If the problem was that he couldn't complain about harassment for fear of getting discharged, that's a DADT issue. The UCMJ doesn't say anything about acknowledging you're gay; it just bans oral and anal sex. And it's my understanding that the military isn't even prosecuting those unless there was rape or a minor or something like that involved because to do otherwise might be unconstitutional under the Supreme Court's Lawrence v. Texas decision.
I agree that the UCMJ needs to be amended to make clear that consensual acts aren't a crime. But this particular incident seems to have more to do with DADT.
And I thought it was interesting that Brown's public statement did not talk about Provost's fairly out gay identity.