AMERICAblog: Bush/Hoyer FISA bill gets vote in the House today
Rob Mule
· 1 year ago
Government might be broken but the hidden lobbyist levers appear to be functioning...Steny's gotta keep that oily, Snidely Whiplash look.
Michael7820
· 1 year ago
The House will vote on George Bush and Steny Hoyer's very flawed FISA bill today. In fact, it's being debated right now. It's a total cave in to George Bush. We thought the days of cowering before Bush were over. Unfortunately, that's not the case. Bush's approval rating is 29%. Yes, 29%. But, somehow, he's managed to roll the Democratic Majority Leader. Joe Sudbay (DC)
I read this and am completely flabbergasted as to why people advocate the Dem. Party as the solution, encourage supporting it financially and continue to believe in it or Obama. I am amazed that there are so many reasons to be disillusioned with the party and yet at 36 million, 18 for Obama, 18 for Hillary believe the psychobabbledoulbecodespeak of politicians. Must be the spin sickness!!
Spin sickness - nausea, sensory d I s O re I n tATiOn, dizziness, confusion & inability to determine reality brought about by excessive political lying or in Politically Correct speak, spin.
Spin sickness in the later stages is known to bring about totally nonsensical behavior and severally impaired judgement to the audience it is used on. After severe repeated exposure to political spin it is known to induce a zombie like trance, partisan infighting or childlike disposition in whole populationz. Spin also seems to make certain sheople think they are free & live in democratic republic & that they, thier opinions & votes count.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Chris Dodd for Senate Majority Leader.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
Dodd sorely needs to redeem himself and this is the issue.
scottinsf
· 1 year ago
I hate to be the one that told you so, but.....I told you so. Madam speaker will blame it all on Mr. majority leader. Mr. majority leader will blame the blue dog dems. Blue dog dems will blame their constituents.
Is criticizing Madam speaker still off the table here?
Bobby
· 1 year ago
Disgraceful. UnAmerican. A betrayal.
Exactly why should we be glad Democrats control Congress?
Rob Mule
· 1 year ago
If gravitas is eight letters, they're about seven letters short
PS--Remember a little social club called the Senate...
OlderAndWiser
· 1 year ago
When will people vote these assholes out of office? Come on! The US is about to fall off a cliff.
Meanwhile, oil is back over $135/bbl (bet Henry Paulson is in ecstasy) and the Dow has fallen below 12,000...
Butch1
· 1 year ago
How many times must one continue to tell the House that we are not interested. I've seen this two out of three game too many times with these folks. Why this bill ever came up for a vote, considering we are the majority, is also another mystery. Olbermann and Turley hit all the points in this discussion. Bush must have a lot on members of Congress, especially, Pelosi and Reid. How else can anyone explain why they keep dancing the tune "Fiddler Bush" plays. We all watch whilst Rome burns. Impeachment will stop all of this and if there are democrats under the microscope after the smoke clears, then so be it. We need to get rid of all these "wheeler & dealers."
OlderAndWiser
· 1 year ago
No need to call Patrick McHenry, unless you want to give him a blow job.
Grimmlok
· 1 year ago
*tries to look surprised, fails*
Seriously, who didn't see this coming? How people even manage (or bother) to get angry anymore is beyond me. That anger doesn't change anything.
They'll do what they want to do and the population is powerless to stop it unless they want to take matters into their own hands, and lets face it: the days of Old Glory and kicking British butt are long gone.
Cheetos, SUV's and the boob tube are what's important. Enjoy your Orwellian nightmare, brought to you by the unconcerned citizens of The United States.
nikto
· 1 year ago
Hey, isn't this supposed to be the day Scott McClellan testifies UNDER OATH?
Why hasn't Sen. Obama been all over the news strongly denouncing this vote? He is the presumed Democratic nominee and Presidential candidate. Is this or is this not the "change" that we so desperately need at this time? I know he's in the Senate and the vote is in the House but as that Presidential candidate doesn't he owe it to Americans to do everything possible to see this defeated now, TODAY? I'm pissed that practically everyone agrees that this bill with essentially gut the Fourth Amendment, yet our leaders are seemingly pushing this through. I sincerely hope that Sen. Obama makes a public statement soon. He is the only hope, IMHO, that we have and I would like to see him take strong action.
Obama '08!
NewsCat
· 1 year ago
Okay I called my rep, Jim Moran (VA) and asked if the vote had happened and if Rep. Moran had made a decision. I was told "no and he's still considering it." (Which they always said...)
I told him as a resident of his area PLEASE vote against the bill it gives up way too much. I will say that the person taking the call seemed to hear what I said and probably will convey it to the Representative. (Moran might actually listen to his constituants if they call).
lucky hussein
· 1 year ago
excellent point - time for leadership, no? I'm concerned obama is a neo-lib - he was my 3rd choice behind kucinich and edwards. this article shows he's loading up on neo-lib punk economic advisors: http://www.alternet.org/election08/88093/
jr
· 1 year ago
"I love being a helicopter parent for the telecoms"-Steny Hoyer
Hawk
· 1 year ago
UPDATE III: This article from Dow Jones, celebrating that the telecom industry is completely off the hook as a result of this bill, has the full quote from Sen. Bond, which is even better: "I'm not here to say that the government is always right, but when the government tells you to do something, I'm sure you would all agree that I think you all recognize that is something you need to do," Bond said. Even when the Government is wrong, even when it orders you to do something illegal, your role is not to question but to obey. That's what he is saying explicitly.
When Democrats took over the Congress, they issued a document vowing to "end the 'dead of night' special interest provisions that turn bills into special-interest giveaways" and proclaimed: "Lawmakers must have the opportunity to read every bill before they vote on it. It’s common sense."
Today, the House leadership has set aside a grand total of one hour to debate the FISA/amnesty bill today, and gave its members less than 24 hours from the time it was released yesterday until they have to vote on it today. That's the same bill which the NYT this morning calls "the most significant revision of surveillance law in 30 years." They're going to enact massive changes to our spying laws without having the slightest idea what they're voting on. All they know is that the President demanded them and, as Kit Bond says: "when the government tells you to do something, I'm sure you would all agree that I think you all recognize that is something you need to do."
Say goodbye, oh oh oh say bye bye, where you going to now...lightning flashes accross the sky east to west do or die, like a thief in the night sees the world by candlelight...
This republic is gone!
ComradeRutherford
· 1 year ago
As far as anybody knows there's a clause in there to suspend the elections and name Cheney Vice President for life.
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
And then we wonder why the Democratic congress is rated so low! Hmm, could it have anything to do with lobbyists STILL getting their way?
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
its as Keith says... CYA.
all of congress is worried about possible prosecution due to collusion.
new t-shirt:
COLLUSION! its not just for republicans anymore.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
No money and no vote if Barack Obama votes for this FISA compromise/capitulation/unadulterate telco bj. The wholesale involvement of our goverment and the telcos in the warrantless wiretapring of US citizens on an outrageous yet unknown scale and the Iraq war are the most important issues to me and those that I speak with. Aside from the fact that it is anathema to our Constitution to grant retroactive immunity for the telcos in allowing spying on our citizens (assuming a good argument exists a real difference exists currently between the US government, telcos and the US military), this issue provides a crystal clear distinction between good Constitutional government that respects it bounds and citizens and those of McCain/Bush. I had hoped Obama would choose wisely.
Why do the current slate of Congressional dems (including Obama) think they gained power in 2006? It was the people saying stop the Iraq war and stop warrantless intrusions into the lives, e-mails and phone conversation of US citizens. To date, the feckless dems have failed (assuming they really tried) s as per the usual and nothing has CHANGED. Obama should step to the plate and bring that CHANGE!
I still believe change will by any and all means necessary to DC because at some point (we are very very close) DC and all the current dem/repub establishment needs to fall hard, very very hard on its fface. I am beginning to doubt whether Obama will be the toch bearer for real change.
Why do americans work to pay taxes to a government that can spy on them with impunity and without consequence? Americans should consider stop working for a few weeks or months and cut off the life blood to DC, taxes. Let DC fail and then rebuild.
By the way, allowing the telcos retrocative immunity is very similar to the old pre-incorporation "silver platter" doctrine where state law enforcement authorities, then not bound by the Bill of Rights (Amendments 1-10), would obtain evidence by unscrupulous means, including coerced confessions, by the warrantless unannounced knocking down of doors, racial profiliung, tortutre, lengthy warrantless detentions and interrogations without an arrest warrant or attorney for the unlucky detainee, etc. and then hand over the evidence attained by these means to the feds on a "silver platter" to be used in a federal prosecution.
If Obama joins in and fails to openly oppose this ill-thought out compromise on FISA Bob Barr will get my vote, my support and my money and Obama, like McCain, will get the written wrath due a an unprincipled coward opportunist so sorely lacking leadership skills so sorely needed today.
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
"Oh well, I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway" - average Joe American
Ruslanchik
· 1 year ago
What is going on here? Why are the Democrats even considering legislation like this? If they want to screw over the American public, can't they wait until BO has gotten elected and we have a 5 or 6 vote majority in the Senate? Why, why, why must they do this NOW? It doesn't make any sense.
I'm calling my Rep now. Please call yours too.
Skycat
· 1 year ago
As we used to say, you're either part of the problem or part of the solution. It's clear where the Democrats who vote for this bill stand. As K.O. and Turley said, it's a form of self protection. They were aware of what was going on and did nothing. A vote in favor of this bill is a vote in favor of covering their asses.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
FISA capitulation, aside from retroactive immunity, on a forward looking basis lets the telcos do what the government cannot without penalty based on the governments untested request to the telso the info is needed. This is goivernment and the telco playing good cop bad cop with the Constutuion. This is facism in its rawest form and our system at its worst point ever.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
I forgot to add this is a non-sensical circle jerk of the highest order.
steve303
· 1 year ago
Dems are passing this bill in the house right now. What is the point of electing democrats again? what's the point of an opposition party that ALWAYS capitulates?
paulbot5
· 1 year ago
Democrats and republicans are virtually the same, when will you realize this, we need an outsider.
steve303
· 1 year ago
I hear this all the time, and it's a lot of crap. The problem is that dems want to be the cool kids- republicans, who get all the air time, the money, and are treated 'seriously'. The problem with the dems is they have no real principles , no unifying philosophy. They're like a bunch of scared teenagers - shout 'liberal' at them and they'll do whatever they have to to prove that their not.
Andrew
· 1 year ago
After the travesty that just took place in the peoples House of Representatives, every American republican or Democrat, green, independent or otherwise, take note of the name of each and every Democrat that voted in approval of this FISA bill and vote them the hell out this coming November. Today history was made, Mark this date on your calendars so you can tell your children and grandchildren, that today was the day America died.
dad
· 1 year ago
re-election is off the table.
FunMe
· 1 year ago
Dad this has to be repeated over and over again.
Vote the bums out who decided to spy on Americans!
FunMe
· 1 year ago
sorry for my bad language, but the freaking bitch voted yes. The SKANK Pelosi voted yes.
America's founders are crying with the sellout of our democracy. :-|
dula
· 1 year ago
Obama needs to come out publicly against this Bill and vote against it when it goes to the Senate...or I vote Green this year.
Jeremy_in_Denver
· 1 year ago
Udall voted for it. Nice. He's our senatorial candidate this year.
mirth
· 1 year ago
Thank goodness my Udall (NM) voted against it. :)
Very little doubt that in Nov he will win the Senate seat being vacated by Pete Domenici.
And Heather Wilson will be gone.
That's my Good News for today.
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
I have some serious doubts about Udall. His ads make me want to scream.
Andrew
· 1 year ago
Get the name of every Democrat that voted for this garbage and vote the mother F%&^ out this November. Simple as that.
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. It's long past time for the second revolution to begin!
mirth
· 1 year ago
This might be a stoopid question, but how do we do that? Vote for a Dem incumbent's Rep challenger?
Unless I am mistaken, the time to vote out incumbents (which we should do, every damn one of them) was in the primaries when there was choice among Dems candidates and that time is passed.
For me, voting Republican is not acceptable.
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
I said it upthread, vote their collective asses out!!!! We elected them to CHANGE the government and restore sanity but what do they do, make George Bush happy (and probably more than one lobbyist).
This current Congress is the same as the one that was voted out, they are out for themselves and no one else. The voters of this country ought to show these self-indulgent asses that we mean business, we want change.
mirth
· 1 year ago
How?
Maybe I'm not understanding how we can do this, but now that the primaries are over, is the answer to vote for a D incumbent's R challenger?
If I'm missing something and if there is a way to vote them out, I want to know about it.
But voting R is not an option for me.
FunMe
· 1 year ago
I'm beginning to think that if this results in a republiCON then hey, at least we know what party they represent.
With the SPINELESS Democrats they have a "D" - but they act like representative with an "R"
As if having Democrats in "power" has made any difference the last 2 years.
frankparks
· 1 year ago
Democrats to Americans: "The truth, you want the truth. You can't handle the truth"
New McCain ad: "He stood up to the president". WOW, wish Dems were that politically savvy.
devlzadvocate
· 1 year ago
Thank you to my Representative, Sandy Levin for voting no!!!! And for voting in all cases to draw down forces!!!! And thanks to Senators Debbie Stabenow and Carl Levin for also voting no in 2002 and always voting to draw down forces.
We have great leaders of character in Michigan!
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
jeeze. now's Obama's chance to draw a bright line of distinction between the change he's been talking about and the same old politics in Washington. What good is refusing to take lobbyists' money for your campaign if you turn right around and suck up to the telcom lobbyist$?
ban lobbying period. all of it. no exceptions.
mirth
· 1 year ago
I have a heavy workload today and I'm not paying much attention to news.
OMG!
What has happened? What has Obama done to suck up to telecom lobbyists?!
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
sorry, mirth...nothing new, i'm just worried that Obama hasn't come out clearly on this issue now that the House has voted...afraid he's going to agree that it's a good compromise...
mirth
· 1 year ago
Whew! Major relief!
His campaign has assured us that he will vote against the bill. What makes you worry that he will change his mind and agree that it's a good compromise?
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
i've been reading too much glenn greenwald i guess.
Catsandbeer.com
· 1 year ago
who's the one non-coward rebublican who voted AGAINST? let's get that wo/man some good pub
and moveOn.org is asking people to keep calling Obama's campaign urging him to make a strong statement against phone company immunity...
kimbutgar
· 1 year ago
I have always felt that the story of this wiretapping was that they were eavesdropping in on Congress and they found info that they could blackmail certain dem's and rethugs and they are holding it over them. The telecoms didn't need immunity if they weren't doing anything illegal. Looking at the names of the traitors to the constitution are long term congress critters who are owned by the lobbyists. Bush just got his get out of jail card. Today this is the final straw for me I will be working actively to get Cindy Sheehan to take Nancy Pelosi's place in Congress. And that is probably why she doesn't want to put impeachment on the table. She is dirty like the rest of them.
OneManComotion
· 1 year ago
What does Bush have on the Dems? Is it that his spying program has found sensitive communications that he is black mailing them with?
No, it is a "One Party System" that can not be changed. Forget all this talk of change...the writing is on the wall. I have been one of the biggest supporters for Obama in the circles that I revolve. I now don't care about the fight anymore. The corporations win. If someone can give a logical explanation why Obama voted this way I still will listen.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Thank you. I took your advice and I called Hoyer, Reid and Pelosi offices. I told their reps that the dems need to grow a backbone and stop letting this president get away with stuff. Everyone call. They need to fear us not this administration if they want to come back to rule again.
All Comments
Joe Sudbay (DC)
I read this and am completely flabbergasted as to why people advocate the Dem. Party as the solution, encourage supporting it financially and continue to believe in it or Obama. I am amazed that there are so many reasons to be disillusioned with the party and yet at 36 million, 18 for Obama, 18 for Hillary believe the psychobabbledoulbecodespeak of politicians. Must be the spin sickness!!
Spin sickness - nausea, sensory d I s O re I n tATiOn, dizziness, confusion & inability to determine reality brought about by excessive political lying or in Politically Correct speak, spin.
Spin sickness in the later stages is known to bring about totally nonsensical behavior and severally impaired judgement to the audience it is used on.
After severe repeated exposure to political spin it is known to induce a zombie like trance, partisan infighting or childlike disposition in whole populationz.
Spin also seems to make certain sheople think they are free & live in democratic republic & that they, thier opinions & votes count.
Is criticizing Madam speaker still off the table here?
Exactly why should we be glad Democrats control Congress?
Timnanigans:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/06202008/gossip/pag...
PS--Remember a little social club called the Senate...
Meanwhile, oil is back over $135/bbl (bet Henry Paulson is in ecstasy) and the Dow has fallen below 12,000...
Seriously, who didn't see this coming? How people even manage (or bother) to get angry anymore is beyond me. That anger doesn't change anything.
They'll do what they want to do and the population is powerless to stop it unless they want to take matters into their own hands, and lets face it: the days of Old Glory and kicking British butt are long gone.
Cheetos, SUV's and the boob tube are what's important. Enjoy your Orwellian nightmare, brought to you by the unconcerned citizens of The United States.
That is TODAY, right?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar...
Why hasn't Sen. Obama been all over the news strongly denouncing this vote? He is the presumed Democratic nominee and Presidential candidate. Is this or is this not the "change" that we so desperately need at this time?
I know he's in the Senate and the vote is in the House but as that Presidential candidate doesn't he owe it to Americans to do everything possible to see this defeated now, TODAY?
I'm pissed that practically everyone agrees that this bill with essentially gut the Fourth Amendment, yet our leaders are seemingly pushing this through.
I sincerely hope that Sen. Obama makes a public statement soon. He is the only hope, IMHO, that we have and I would like to see him take strong action.
Obama '08!
I told him as a resident of his area PLEASE vote against the bill it gives up way too much. I will say that the person taking the call seemed to hear what I said and probably will convey it to the Representative. (Moran might actually listen to his constituants if they call).
http://www.alternet.org/election08/88093/
"I'm not here to say that the government is always right, but when the government tells you to do something, I'm sure you would all agree that I think you all recognize that is something you need to do," Bond said.
Even when the Government is wrong, even when it orders you to do something illegal, your role is not to question but to obey. That's what he is saying explicitly.
When Democrats took over the Congress, they issued a document vowing to "end the 'dead of night' special interest provisions that turn bills into special-interest giveaways" and proclaimed: "Lawmakers must have the opportunity to read every bill before they vote on it. It’s common sense."
Today, the House leadership has set aside a grand total of one hour to debate the FISA/amnesty bill today, and gave its members less than 24 hours from the time it was released yesterday until they have to vote on it today. That's the same bill which the NYT this morning calls "the most significant revision of surveillance law in 30 years." They're going to enact massive changes to our spying laws without having the slightest idea what they're voting on. All they know is that the President demanded them and, as Kit Bond says: "when the government tells you to do something, I'm sure you would all agree that I think you all recognize that is something you need to do."
Say goodbye, oh oh oh say bye bye, where you going to now...lightning flashes accross the sky east to west do or die, like a thief in the night sees the world by candlelight...
This republic is gone!
all of congress is worried about possible prosecution due to collusion.
new t-shirt:
COLLUSION! its not just for republicans anymore.
Why do the current slate of Congressional dems (including Obama) think they gained power in 2006? It was the people saying stop the Iraq war and stop warrantless intrusions into the lives, e-mails and phone conversation of US citizens. To date, the feckless dems have failed (assuming they really tried) s as per the usual and nothing has CHANGED. Obama should step to the plate and bring that CHANGE!
I still believe change will by any and all means necessary to DC because at some point (we are very very close) DC and all the current dem/repub establishment needs to fall hard, very very hard on its fface. I am beginning to doubt whether Obama will be the toch bearer for real change.
Why do americans work to pay taxes to a government that can spy on them with impunity and without consequence? Americans should consider stop working for a few weeks or months and cut off the life blood to DC, taxes. Let DC fail and then rebuild.
By the way, allowing the telcos retrocative immunity is very similar to the old pre-incorporation "silver platter" doctrine where state law enforcement authorities, then not bound by the Bill of Rights (Amendments 1-10), would obtain evidence by unscrupulous means, including coerced confessions, by the warrantless unannounced knocking down of doors, racial profiliung, tortutre, lengthy warrantless detentions and interrogations without an arrest warrant or attorney for the unlucky detainee, etc. and then hand over the evidence attained by these means to the feds on a "silver platter" to be used in a federal prosecution.
If Obama joins in and fails to openly oppose this ill-thought out compromise on FISA Bob Barr will get my vote, my support and my money and Obama, like McCain, will get the written wrath due a an unprincipled coward opportunist so sorely lacking leadership skills so sorely needed today.
I'm calling my Rep now. Please call yours too.
Today history was made, Mark this date on your calendars so you can tell your children and grandchildren, that today was the day America died.
Vote the bums out who decided to spy on Americans!
The SKANK Pelosi voted yes.
Freaking unbelievable.
These are the folk to VOTE OUT OF OFFICE:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll437.xml
America's founders are crying with the sellout of our democracy.
:-|
Very little doubt that in Nov he will win the Senate seat being vacated by Pete Domenici.
And Heather Wilson will be gone.
That's my Good News for today.
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
It's long past time for the second revolution to begin!
Unless I am mistaken, the time to vote out incumbents (which we should do, every damn one of them) was in the primaries when there was choice among Dems candidates and that time is passed.
For me, voting Republican is not acceptable.
This current Congress is the same as the one that was voted out, they are out for themselves and no one else. The voters of this country ought to show these self-indulgent asses that we mean business, we want change.
Maybe I'm not understanding how we can do this, but now that the primaries are over, is the answer to vote for a D incumbent's R challenger?
If I'm missing something and if there is a way to vote them out, I want to know about it.
But voting R is not an option for me.
With the SPINELESS Democrats they have a "D" - but they act like representative with an "R"
As if having Democrats in "power" has made any difference the last 2 years.
New McCain ad: "He stood up to the president".
WOW, wish Dems were that politically savvy.
We have great leaders of character in Michigan!
ban lobbying period. all of it. no exceptions.
OMG!
What has happened? What has Obama done to suck up to telecom lobbyists?!
His campaign has assured us that he will vote against the bill. What makes you worry that he will change his mind and agree that it's a good compromise?
fuck these cowards
THANK GOODNESS I don't have to fight him.
Now that FEINSTEIN ... she's a lost case.
Say what you want to say and allow others to do the same. If it gets too unruly for you, then go somewhere else.
And fuck Nancy Pelosi!
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/06/20/house-...
and moveOn.org is asking people to keep calling Obama's campaign urging him to make a strong statement against phone company immunity...
No, it is a "One Party System" that can not be changed. Forget all this talk of change...the writing is on the wall. I have been one of the biggest supporters for Obama in the circles that I revolve. I now don't care about the fight anymore. The corporations win. If someone can give a logical explanation why Obama voted this way I still will listen.