AMERICAblog: Can you still have a community if everybody likes you?
vwcat
· 1 year ago
In the 70s and 80s being single and going out was a big deal. But, just like straights, maybe more and more gays are settling down with a mate earlier and embracing a more quiet lifestyle. Staying home, going to coffee bars and bookstores, ect. I think the trending for both is away from the nightclub lifestyle and a more quiet and settled one of friends and home and family. and like straights, boomer era gays are just getting old. lol And now with more and more couples able to adopt I am guessing it's the family life for gays as well with weekend gardening and mowing and house upkeep.
Jim Olson
· 1 year ago
I have no interest in going to loud, dirty, overpriced bars with creepy old men or tweaked out club kids. I've never found the need to read 'gay' literature, (although, The Boys on the Rock was formative...). I'm married, so I'm not out trolling for sex, and if I wanted to, I can get all the porn I want over the internet.
My husband and I celebrated Boston Pride today by spending the day visiting with friends, meeting with a search commitee, and doing a bit of shopping. Then we came home and had dinner. We did not attend the parade or other events. We just don't feel like we have to to prove ourselves...we are just as comfortable with our straight friends as our gay friends.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
Maybe in Minnesota.
AngelaChanning
· 1 year ago
I think this is a much more reasoned argument than Andrew Sullivan's dramatic "Death of Gay Culture." I think there are other market forces in effect as well. For example, gay hotels, gay cruises, gay travel groups still seem to do well...although I notice more men my age (44) and older with these affinity groups but there are younger guys, too. (Of course, I have gone with gay groups that have marketed to older guys....I think Atlantis Cruises still has a huge twink clientele.) With gay travel, I still think there is a comfort in numbers factor, especially if one is not sure of his or her surroundings.
I have heard of gay neighorhoods becoming more mixed. I think in some, many gays cannot afford areas that have suddenly become gentrified but I also think that gays are now comfortable moving into suburban neighborhoods and I think many straights don't mind gay neighbors or they don't moving into traditionally gay neighborhoods. I am out in the burbs and on my little culdesac alone are 3 gay & lesbian households, and I know of at least 12 in the total community of 200. Our Architectural Review Committee is now controlled by openly gay and lesbian folks and for the first time in 17 years, residents like the ARC and there is a sense of working with neighbors than against them. So even in provincial Baltimore, there is much acceptance.
Nationwide, gay book stores are struggling but many independent book stores are struggling. In Baltimore, the only gay book store, Lambda Rising closed mostly because of the availability of titles in Barnes & Nobile, Amazon, Borders, etc. The bar scene seems to be doing okay but I have heard of closures in other cities. Many new hip "mixed" clubs and restaurants are opening but there will probably be a market for gay bars. (Although, internet hookups probably compete for the horny factor. LOL.)
Thank you for listening. Time to go cruise Craig's List. LOL
Gary SF
· 1 year ago
Ghettos evolve as safe havens from prejudice. We have a Chinatown here in SF because of the prejudice against the Chinese earlier last century. The first time I visited Amsterdam, I was disappointed that there wasn't a 'gay' neighborhood as we have here in SF. It is because there is 'mainstream' acceptance of gays in The Netherlands and there was no need for a gay neighborhood. The Internet also helps as we can create e-communities.
vwcat
· 1 year ago
Jim, it's like I was saying. I think many gays like yourself are finding love, settling down and living a quieter lifestyle now.
Jim Olson
· 1 year ago
Yup. We are just frackin' boring. Saturday nights are laundry, chinese food, and Food Network.
hopelesspedant
· 1 year ago
It's a huge issue here in West Hollywood (CA). We are a separate city of 38,000 surrounded by LA and Beverly Hills, gays are a minority (maybe 40%), but totally control the city government (it is a terrific municipality overall, like having Greenwich Village as a separate city amid NY).
But Santa Monica Blvd is under siege from non-gay customers, and what is likely to change the profile is a combination of fewer gays feeling the need to gather, and fewer out-of-towners flocking here because a lack of places to go closer to home.
Catsandbeer.com
· 1 year ago
yes, we have sieged you (crescent heights between fountain and santa monica) - it's great - thanks for keeping everything so neat and tidy (and safe!) - seriously, thanks
devlzadvocate
· 1 year ago
If you accept one of Webster's definitions of "community" - a body of persons of common and especially professional interests scattered through a larger society - then certainly it is possible for a community to still exist. I don't think Sullivan got it right either. I think he describes slow death of the club culture. That is quite different than the death of the gay community or culture, which simply integrates into everyday life via Internet, media, living out, etc.
Isn't that what the struggle is all about? Being out constantly means you eventually blend into the landscape.
Caritina
· 1 year ago
Why don't you mention that antigay violence is growing? The article says it and nobody make a comment about it, I can't understand why. Sorry for my bad English.
devlzadvocate
· 1 year ago
It is and it is unacceptable. However, I believe the more publicity an issue gets, the more reaction it inspires from the "anti" side, regardless of the way general society is headed. Not everyone is going to change their attitudes - ever. There will always be a group who opposes us.
Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas
· 1 year ago
Andrew Sullivan once said that "their" worst fear (meaning heteros) was NOT the pride parade where drag queens with bare butts in chaps were throwing beads from floats...that was "over there" in the gayborhood and we can avoid that shit....no their worst fear was that my partner and I should buy a house in the suburbs, mow our lawns while having a beer, and tossing a football with the boy next door BETTER than his own father can. Assimilation. That is their worst fear. Assimilation and marriage. Becoming part of the American quilt fabric. The outrageous pride parade could be an amusing home video to laugh at the faggots and dykes on bikes. But that is out of our own neighborhood. But let those two ordinary faggots, who play sports, or like NFL on TV, or mow their lawns just as butch as dad does. Oh shit. Our kids might just see "normal" guys keeping a nice yard, keeping up their home, and being assimilated. That scares the shit outta the heteros.
As much fun as the bars and clubs all were at one time, the assimilation is probably going to ultimately be better for us. And yes the internet has made cruising for no strings sex so much easier. My husband and I rarely go out anymore. If a buddy is doing a drag number to raise money for AIDS, we might have a drink or two and hoot and holler. But now we are just a coupla middle aged queens living in the burbs and mowing our lawn and tossing a ball with the boy next door who thinks the two fag guys are pretty cool.
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
Assimilation only scares the shit out of the "Larry Craig" and "Ted Haggard" types. They don't want something that reminds them of those scary feelings they stuff, and allow to come out in public parks and airport bathrooms. Besides they are afraid if all of us out gays get married and stable, it will reduce their pool of men available for their compartmentalized, secretive anonymous sex escapades.
Antigone
· 1 year ago
You're right. My parents live outside Atlanta and I'm ashamed to say I'm related to them because my old man is a bit of a bigot. When I was a kid our whole neighborhood was nothing but middle class white families. No minorities or any kind. Now a lot of different people have moved in. My father has an African American family living on one side of him, a Hispanic family across the street, and a gay couple (2 men) living next door on the other side.
And he complains about it constantly. He's convinced that the prices of the houses in his neighborhood are going to go down because of "all those kinds of people moving in". Frankly I think it's really nice. I wish it had been like that when I was a kid. And I visit with all of the neighbors and they're very nice. But attitudes have definitely changed since I was a kid. I remember there was one house on the next street, and other kids said awful things about the family that lived there, things they must have heard their parents saying. I didn't realize it until years later when I ran into their son - he'd just come out. And I think that was why they said those things, because maybe they suspected he was gay. But except for my idiot father, I don't see that kind of prejudice in the neighborhood anymore and I think that's a good thing. And I do think my gay neighbors are cool! ;)
Veterans for Common Sense has the votes that PROVE McCain simply talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk when it comes to supporting the troops and veterans.
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
I believe the internet has changed everything, and its changed it for the better.
I can blog and chat with members of the community without having to personally meet at a smoke filled bar. I'm also a recovering addict, so my not being around a place in which there is a lot of heavy drinking is a good thing for me.
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
I believe the internet has changed everything, and its changed it for the better.
I can blog and chat with members of the community without having to personally meet at a smoke filled bar. I'm also a recovering addict, so my not being around a place in which there is a lot of heavy drinking is a good thing for me.
AncientStonewall
· 1 year ago
I tend to agree with author and intellectual Andrew Sullivan that both the AIDS crisis and gay 'culture' are history. Our community has never suffered the brutal discrimination as that seen by African-Americans. Although gays cannot get married in most states, don't receive IRS tax benefits, cannot serve to defend their country, and are not protected by basic federal civil rights statutes - these are seen as minor inconveniences. If other minorities had to deal with similar injustices in current society, it would be seen as small stuff. Those like Andrew Sullivan and Mary Cheney have shown that through financial success one can form legal contracts and even adopt human babies, although the price is steep.
TampaZeke
· 1 year ago
"If other minorities had to deal with similar injustices in current society, it would be seen as small stuff".
Do you really think that it would be considered "small stuff" if other minorities were subjected to the discrimination that gay people face in America today?
I sure as hell don't.
And please don't get into the bog of making grand pronouncements about which minority has faced more discrimination by comparing the way gays are treated today with the way African-Americans were treated decades ago or over a hundred years ago. If feel absolutely compelled to make comparisons at least compare apples to apples.
I am openly gay in Greenville, SC and I feel accepted in most places that I go. Frankly I prefer sports bars to gay bars and as far as friends its a lot easier to hang out with straight guys since there is no sexual tension, just me and my buddies out having a good time. In addition, straight people here do still have stereotypes about the gay community and I feel like the only way I can make a difference in changing that is by being out and open, not hiding in a place with people who are only like me.
ndtovent
· 1 year ago
Great post, John, especially since it's Pride weekend in DC (btw, did you get to see any of the parade? were you in it?).. All points you made are correct, as are those of AngelaChanning's comment above (or below, depending on your view choice), but there is another reason, which you failed to mention (I'm not sure if it was an oversight, or on purpose, but...) the AIDS epidemic played a part in that as well. We've probably lost a half million gay men to aids in the U.S. since the epiemic began. That's a lot of people who would still be thriving in our rainbow culture were they still with us. There's a good book on just this topic entitled "The Rise and Fall of Gay Culture" by Daniel Harris (your post made me go into into the depths of my dusty closet to find it cuz i couldn't remember the author's name, damn you '-) -- It was published in 1997, but it still holds true today. The whole book is about just this subject.. Happy Pride, John and everybody!!!
chowderSF
· 1 year ago
Here in the Castro in San Francisco, there has been a shift, and the neighborhood is much more mixed with hetero and gay families. One reason is that the price of real estate has forced many gays to move to other parts of the bay area and many have gone to Palm Springs actually. The bar scene seems to be just fine, and let me tell you, with the marriage thing happening this week, many of the store windows are all decorated and the mood in the air is tremendous. The Pride Parade this year is supposed to draw many, many more people to San Fran to celebrate, breaking all kinds of records. And if you have ever been here for Pride, you know how HUGE of an event it is already.
Savage8862
· 1 year ago
I think there will be a split within the gay community. Those that do not want to have long term relationships and those that want long term relationships, get married and start a family. I see it at gay pride events around the country - they are getting more "family" friendly. There are those gays and lesbians who do not want to party and rejoice in their gayness around little kids in wagons or strollers.
Savage8862
· 1 year ago
A supporter of Hillary Rodham Clinton in the Democratic primaries, Debra Bartoshevich is not only an elected delegate to the Democratic National Convention but she has also announced that she is strongly supporting John McCain as President. She is a 41-year-old emergency room nurse from Waterford in Racine County, Wisconsin and convention delegate pledged to Clinton.
McCain takes money from a guy who says women should "just lay back and enjoy it" and she thinks the democrats are sexist?
Jim Olson
· 1 year ago
So, instead of voting for the candidate who supports a woman's right to choose, will appoint SCOTUS justices who support Roe v. Wade, and will work to bring the troops home, actually supporting families AND the military by ending this ridiculous folly of a war, all Democrat planks, she will cast her electoral vote for the candidate who stands for the exact opposite of all that she claims to believe in as a committed Democrat, all because her candidate did not win the nomination?
Still sounds like sour grapes to me.
jr
· 1 year ago
labels are for cans, not people
stranded
· 1 year ago
I was going to comment that I think it's predominantly the internet which has changed things, but in reading through other people's comments I can see that it's apparently a mix of all these factors. I would say that for me, the internet is my primary connection to other gay men, whereas when I was younger, bars were the only real option I had available. The same is true for the gay news, which I used to get in local papers, but now comes from the internet. I think it depends on which city you live in too. Here in Phoenix there's no gay community center, whereas places like San Francisco or NYC obviously have larger populations and more options on all fronts. But let's face it, anyone who's anyone is gathering at AmericaBlog.
bronco214
· 1 year ago
So, no longer a community. Now, just part of the population. How sad. hahahahahahahaha
Macbill
· 1 year ago
I wonder if another reason for the decline is due to baby boomer gays are just tuckered out.
greekboy62
· 1 year ago
Oh you guys are all so boring-no wonder our communities are dying, no one wants to have fun anymore! I love to go out and meet new gay folks as much as possible. Nothing compares to the energy of a busy gay bar! I love to dance for hours, sing Karaoke, drink sum brews and cruise the boys! my partner loves to shoot pool, kinda hard to do that online! And we do live in the burbs with our nice home and yard, but I loves to go to our local gay bars, or take a 70 mile drive to San Francisco. It's not just the bars, I like to go have coffee at a gay friendly coffee house we have and all the best restaurants have gay people working there. Get out from behind ur computer and live a little!
scottinsf
· 1 year ago
I agree greekboy62. Sounds like a bunch of old fuddy duds. It's not a matter of wanting to "feel accepted" as John wonders, so much as it is gays generally do everything better and have a funner time doing those things. Whether that be a gay resort in Palm Springs, camping at a gay campground, a cruise on Atlantis, gay ski week, on and on. I'm going to a weekend-long car show in a few weeks that some of the countries biggest gay car clubs throw each year. Talk about incredible cars and an amazingly fun show. Truly some of the finest cars you'll see anywhere. I live in the Castro and don't even go to any of the bars but if I want to go have fun at a movie I just hop down to the Castro Theater. Just saw the new Indiana Jones movie there. On top of it being a gorgeous old movie palace, we dispense with pre-show ads and previews and just have somebody playing a Mighty Wurlitzer organ that rises out of the stage while the entire theater is clapping and singing along. Much funner than watching silly ads flash on a boring cineplex screen with a bunch of boring straight people yacking on their phones waiting for the movie to start. It's my experience that gays do just about everything bigger, better, and funner than straights.
SociologistTina
· 1 year ago
"Is it becoming so easy to be gay in so many places in America that many younger gays no longer feel the need to go to a gay bar, or any other majority-gay-clientele environment, in order to feel accepted?"
No doubt.
Carolinian
· 1 year ago
I don't want to sound all negative and rain on people's parades..but anyhow! Outside of the larger "world" cities in this country and especially here in the South.... gay pride, visibility, including not only bars but community centers, coffeehouses and bookstores are more important now than ever. In my opinion gays in red state america are not in "post gay" territory and won't be for decades to come.
OlderAndWiser
· 1 year ago
Has anyone figured in the race and class components of this? It's something that more affluent gays should consider. Not all gays can afford to live in gay dominant neighborhoods, go on cruises (even in the bars), etc. Not every community is welcoming, either. You are more accepted in Charlotte, for instance, because it has quite a number of affluent gays who accept corporate cultures. Some young gay or lesbian out here in the country would not be as accepted, even by their own families, and would eventually move on.
Many gays still suffer in silence, and AIDS is still a factor, esp. among the young, who weren't around during the 80s epidemic when people were dying left and right.
Also, many young people are "experimenting" with sex, acting more bi-sexual, switching from hetero to same sex relationships without a qualm.
Most mature people are accepting of all kinds of people, esp. those of their own cultural background, except for those who embrace the most egregious religious attitudes.
Is it enough for more affluent white gays to feel accepted when others of different cultural upbringings or race or class are not?
scottinsf
· 1 year ago
You bring up some good points O&W. I do tend to think it's going to be the less affluent gays that will continue to fight the hardest in the trenches. I can only speak for myself here, but I'm certainly not the same cocky young activist I was in the mid-Eighties when I was a starving student, recently out and with a lot of my friends dying around me. I wouldn't do half the shit I did then. Maybe because times were different then, maybe because I didn't have a career then or maybe because I lived in a pretty backwoods part of the country at the time. I don't know. Hell, even there we were rabble rousers. We used to go in small groups to this neo-nazi compound and protest outside the front gates. We were kind of a ragtag group of gays, Jews, and blacks. Even the cops hated us and seemed to side more with the neo-nazis. They'd warn us "you're going to get yourselves shot some day" and we'd smile and keep showing up. Well, years later after I moved away the nazis did shoot some some folks protesting out front of their compound. That was their downfall. They got sued into oblivion and run out of the area for good. Their old compound is now a peace park :-) Just shows how sometimes smaller, more isolated gay communites can help bring about some of the biggest victories.
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
The simple fact is that people seek to be with others like themselves. The Community', no matter how you define it, is changing. With the ability to come out, buy a house, and maybe adopt a kid, Gay people have been assimilating into 'mainstream' society for 20+ years. Marriage equality is just the capstone on that achievement. But as the internet allows us to congregate virtually, and real estate prices keep young gays out of Castro, WeHo and the rest, how we become a community will not be the same as it was during the 'Golden Age' of the 70s through the 90s.
buckguy
· 1 year ago
Once you get out of large urban centers there remains a lot of prejudice. Property values have had a big impact on many gay ghettos like Dupont Circle, but in many cases, the ghetto simply has moved to adjacent areas, which may be more mixed. Adams-Morgan (just N of Dupont) has always had a lot of gays--historically more affordable than Dupont and it some "Best Address" condo/coop buildings with a lot of gay owners. That's where Andrew Sullivan has lived for many years (I see him on the street every few months). Gays also have become critical masses in neighborhoods East of Dupont like Logan Circle and Shaw It's also forgotten that gay ghettos have always had lots of non-gays. This was evident in Dupont in the 90s. It's evident historically in Atlanta's Midtown and Seattle's Capitol Hill. Even the Casto has always had a fair number of heteros.
Still, there are many ways to have community and gay groups that aren't geographically based such as book clubs, athletic and hiking groups, etc. seem to be thriving. Bathhouses haven't died out, despite the internet and there will always be a need for venues in which people can meet potential partners--casual or longer-time, and there's only so much of that networking that can be done in a mixed gay/straight social mileu such as parties or workplaces. The internet has made a difference, but less so for the age group that would normally be moving away from bars.
BTW, Rosser, whom I know, is a psychologist, not an epidemiologist and not someone who always stays close to the data.
LCR4life
· 1 year ago
"Is it becoming so easy to be gay in so many places in America that many younger gays no longer feel the need to go to a gay bar"
This is what Log Cabin has been trying to tell the liberal elite queens for years. We don't need special rights or special protections. As a community, we have much higher disposable income than struggling working class Americans. Look at Mary Cheney and her wife Heather Poe. They are raising a young son without any problems at all. Activist Andrew Sullivan was able to live a very sexually active life while HIV+ and yet still find a younger HIV- partner who eventually married him. When Sullivan was originally a big fan of Bush/Cheney, one of his keystones of support was that George Bush really likes us and poses no danger. Even now, there are tons of discrete gay men in this Republican Administration. How can we cry and whine about rights when we have already received so many breaks?
wearbear
· 1 year ago
How nice of you to assume the whole glbt community is rich white men and women.
ndtovent
· 1 year ago
We don't get that many 'breaks' in so many parts of this country. Gay marriage is still illegal in all but 2 states, and 18 states now have amendments in their constitutions banning same sex marriage. What rock have you been living under? Talk about elitist....Skillet, meet kettle.
fredndallas
· 1 year ago
Sheesh, these gay Republican attitudes, I swear! Your own post tells the tale about how many "breaks" we have gotten: "there are tons of discrete gay men in this Republican Administration". Now that is really "acceptance" and a "break" we should be proud of right? "Come work hard for the Republican 'administration' but BE DISCRETE about who and what you REALLY are."
Anybody who is that self-loathing deserves exactly what they get from these creeps.
fredndallas
· 1 year ago
Many who have posted here have gone to the burbs. That in itself says a lot. Burbs "values" and appeals are totally different from city center. As an elder boomer, the burbs hold absolutely no interest for me. Nonetheless, my activities have seemingly "settled down" even in the city center. The great gay "saloon keepers" are either gone or totally burned out & have left the biz without protege. Most of today's gay bars seem quite boring and half-hearted. The influx of many str8 folk into gay bars doesn't help. Many of them have inappropriate attitudes & behavior imo. Real estate prices have been driven up by youngsters with rich parents (thanks to GWB policies) who want to live in the trendy hood and plop down half a mil for their starter home. Clearly internet is also a big factor: 1) easier entertainment vs predictable bar boredom 2) higher odds connecting for adventure seekers And lastly the drive among many gay folk for integration/acceptance that previously was largely anathema: gaybies, burbs with a picket fence, neighborhood committees, conventional notions of "security", etc. Obviously today gay does not equal Bohemian. Perhaps it never did. Maybe only gay pioneers -- by definition -- had to be Bohemians. Yup, the "face" of the gay culture has changed. You don't hear much anymore about the "hippie" culture either. Or the "beat" culture. The culture of gay pioneers by definition must fade as same-sex coupling gains acceptance. At once, I am profoundly sorry and happy to see it go. Bittersweet.
All Comments
and like straights, boomer era gays are just getting old. lol
And now with more and more couples able to adopt I am guessing it's the family life for gays as well with weekend gardening and mowing and house upkeep.
My husband and I celebrated Boston Pride today by spending the day visiting with friends, meeting with a search commitee, and doing a bit of shopping. Then we came home and had dinner. We did not attend the parade or other events. We just don't feel like we have to to prove ourselves...we are just as comfortable with our straight friends as our gay friends.
I have heard of gay neighorhoods becoming more mixed. I think in some, many gays cannot afford areas that have suddenly become gentrified but I also think that gays are now comfortable moving into suburban neighborhoods and I think many straights don't mind gay neighbors or they don't moving into traditionally gay neighborhoods. I am out in the burbs and on my little culdesac alone are 3 gay & lesbian households, and I know of at least 12 in the total community of 200. Our Architectural Review Committee is now controlled by openly gay and lesbian folks and for the first time in 17 years, residents like the ARC and there is a sense of working with neighbors than against them. So even in provincial Baltimore, there is much acceptance.
Nationwide, gay book stores are struggling but many independent book stores are struggling. In Baltimore, the only gay book store, Lambda Rising closed mostly because of the availability of titles in Barnes & Nobile, Amazon, Borders, etc. The bar scene seems to be doing okay but I have heard of closures in other cities. Many new hip "mixed" clubs and restaurants are opening but there will probably be a market for gay bars. (Although, internet hookups probably compete for the horny factor. LOL.)
Thank you for listening. Time to go cruise Craig's List. LOL
But Santa Monica Blvd is under siege from non-gay customers, and what is likely to change the profile is a combination of fewer gays feeling the need to gather, and fewer out-of-towners flocking here because a lack of places to go closer to home.
Isn't that what the struggle is all about? Being out constantly means you eventually blend into the landscape.
As much fun as the bars and clubs all were at one time, the assimilation is probably going to ultimately be better for us. And yes the internet has made cruising for no strings sex so much easier. My husband and I rarely go out anymore. If a buddy is doing a drag number to raise money for AIDS, we might have a drink or two and hoot and holler. But now we are just a coupla middle aged queens living in the burbs and mowing our lawn and tossing a ball with the boy next door who thinks the two fag guys are pretty cool.
And he complains about it constantly. He's convinced that the prices of the houses in his neighborhood are going to go down because of "all those kinds of people moving in". Frankly I think it's really nice. I wish it had been like that when I was a kid. And I visit with all of the neighbors and they're very nice. But attitudes have definitely changed since I was a kid. I remember there was one house on the next street, and other kids said awful things about the family that lived there, things they must have heard their parents saying. I didn't realize it until years later when I ran into their son - he'd just come out. And I think that was why they said those things, because maybe they suspected he was gay. But except for my idiot father, I don't see that kind of prejudice in the neighborhood anymore and I think that's a good thing. And I do think my gay neighbors are cool! ;)
http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/articleid...
Veterans for Common Sense has the votes that PROVE McCain simply talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk when it comes to supporting the troops and veterans.
I can blog and chat with members of the community without having to personally meet at a smoke filled bar. I'm also a recovering addict, so my not being around a place in which there is a lot of heavy drinking is a good thing for me.
I can blog and chat with members of the community without having to personally meet at a smoke filled bar. I'm also a recovering addict, so my not being around a place in which there is a lot of heavy drinking is a good thing for me.
Do you really think that it would be considered "small stuff" if other minorities were subjected to the discrimination that gay people face in America today?
I sure as hell don't.
And please don't get into the bog of making grand pronouncements about which minority has faced more discrimination by comparing the way gays are treated today with the way African-Americans were treated decades ago or over a hundred years ago. If feel absolutely compelled to make comparisons at least compare apples to apples.
HUGE NEWS! CHRISTIAN GENE discovered by GAY SCIENTISTS!!!
The whole book is about just this subject.. Happy Pride, John and everybody!!!
She needs to be stripped of her delegate status.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=762052
Still sounds like sour grapes to me.
I love to go out and meet new gay folks as much as possible. Nothing compares to the energy of a busy gay bar!
I love to dance for hours, sing Karaoke, drink sum brews and cruise the boys!
my partner loves to shoot pool, kinda hard to do that online!
And we do live in the burbs with our nice home and yard, but I loves to go to our local gay bars, or take a 70 mile drive to San Francisco.
It's not just the bars, I like to go have coffee at a gay friendly coffee house we have and all the best restaurants have gay people working there.
Get out from behind ur computer and live a little!
No doubt.
Many gays still suffer in silence, and AIDS is still a factor, esp. among the young, who weren't around during the 80s epidemic when people were dying left and right.
Also, many young people are "experimenting" with sex, acting more bi-sexual, switching from hetero to same sex relationships without a qualm.
Most mature people are accepting of all kinds of people, esp. those of their own cultural background, except for those who embrace the most egregious religious attitudes.
Is it enough for more affluent white gays to feel accepted when others of different cultural upbringings or race or class are not?
With the ability to come out, buy a house, and maybe adopt a kid, Gay people have been assimilating into 'mainstream' society for 20+ years. Marriage equality is just the capstone on that achievement.
But as the internet allows us to congregate virtually, and real estate prices keep young gays out of Castro, WeHo and the rest, how we become a community will not be the same as it was during the 'Golden Age' of the 70s through the 90s.
Still, there are many ways to have community and gay groups that aren't geographically based such as book clubs, athletic and hiking groups, etc. seem to be thriving. Bathhouses haven't died out, despite the internet and there will always be a need for venues in which people can meet potential partners--casual or longer-time, and there's only so much of that networking that can be done in a mixed gay/straight social mileu such as parties or workplaces. The internet has made a difference, but less so for the age group that would normally be moving away from bars.
BTW, Rosser, whom I know, is a psychologist, not an epidemiologist and not someone who always stays close to the data.
This is what Log Cabin has been trying to tell the liberal elite queens for years. We don't need special rights or special protections. As a community, we have much higher disposable income than struggling working class Americans. Look at Mary Cheney and her wife Heather Poe. They are raising a young son without any problems at all. Activist Andrew Sullivan was able to live a very sexually active life while HIV+ and yet still find a younger HIV- partner who eventually married him. When Sullivan was originally a big fan of Bush/Cheney, one of his keystones of support was that George Bush really likes us and poses no danger. Even now, there are tons of discrete gay men in this Republican Administration. How can we cry and whine about rights when we have already received so many breaks?
Anybody who is that self-loathing deserves exactly what they get from these creeps.