AMERICAblog: Catholic bishops plan opposition to Obama
Dave of the Jungle
· 1 year ago
Turn St Peter's into a soup kitchen and give Cardinal Law a job sweeping floors.
mellowjohn
· 1 year ago
tax the bastards!
Bubbles
· 1 year ago
The Catholic Church is the words first Neocon establishment.
Emporer Constantine was the first Neocon. He wanted to control the masses with Religion. Any religion would do, but he picked Catholicism. The planned worked out no different then than it does now. The rich got richer, the poor got poorer, but were compensated by greater access and communion with God. The rich, having got all the assets, used their power and influence to avoid paying taxes. The empire, despite controlling all the resources of Western civilization, when that civilization stretched from Iraq's western border and included all of North Africa and the Eastern Mediterranean, lacked the political will to defeat landless wondering nomadic tribes with almost no resources. A 500 year dark age ensued.
That's the Catholic church. They are the only surviving institution from the Roman Empire. And they don't care if civilization collapses and a new dark age ensues. Been there, done that, and survived, quite nicely.
Those Bishops long for the days when it was there job to confer legitimacy on those who sought to rule. That's real power. Democracy stripped them of that. They want it back. Abortion is the pretext and the new precedent to do just that (gradually - they've got time, lots of it and they aren't going any where - they figure to survive this democracy thing). It's goddamned democracy's fault. I'm catholic (well culturally anyway - I still feel lots of guilt and I rather liked the liturgy back when I used to practice). Don't trust these bastards.
When the conservatives didn't like it when liberalism struck the church in the 1960s, they formed their own branch. I wish liberals would do the same: "New Catholics" or "American Rite" or "Western Orthodox" or something like that.
daingel
· 1 year ago
As a recovering Catholic, and one who watched the present Pope and the Vatican let quite a few child predator priests escape prosecution while playing musical chairs, this is one reason why I have no problem with the Catholic Church losing their tax exemption.
And I'm a really pissed off at the Knights of Columbus. It came to a point where I threw my Blue Coat of the Year award in the trash. I can't stand the idea of having an award for being Top Cop from an organization that I grew up in and used their money and influence to take rights away from others.
I am forever done with the Roman Catholic church.
naschkatzehussein
· 1 year ago
Ours is a similar story. And there are thousands like us. I can't believe the millions of dollars the Catholic Church poured into CA Prop 8, and yet that asshole Bill Donohue will get up on a soap box and claim that the Catholics are the only group which it is still acceptable to persecute. We left two years ago, and there's no going back. Think of the good they could have done with that money.
Bubbles
· 1 year ago
When the church began to liberalize in the 1960s, conservatives broke off and formed their own sect, complete with the Latin mass.
Wouldn't it be possible for liberal Catholics to do the same? A Catholicism that doesn't recognize papal infalibility. One that allows parishes to choose their priests. One that allows priests to marry and women to be ordained. One that believes in separation of church and state. etc...
Call it "New Catholic" or "American Rite" or "Western Orthodox" or some such thing. Catholics waiting for the main stream to catch up. I don't go to mass any more. I've looked into Eastern Orthodox, Lutherans, Episcopal, etc... But it's not the same. Even though I don't go, I like the old liturgy. And when I'm in a bind, and under really intense stress I find my self realling of 'hail mary's' with shocking speed.
mpower1952
· 1 year ago
Challenge Obama, bash gays
Joe- you forgot to add "protect pedophiles" to that list of Catholic values.
SCLiberal
· 1 year ago
The are the same people who spent millions to fight gay marriage in California, millions that could have fed hungry people or housed the homeless.
What would Jesus say?
caphillprof
· 1 year ago
Wouldn't it be nice if a California-like protest group greets the bishops in Baltimore!
Indigo
· 1 year ago
In Baltimore? Hah!
sa2968
· 1 year ago
I would love to see Obama stand up publicly and tell ALL religions that they will have no place, no say, no relevance in his administration and that all decisions will be based on intelligence, reason, and prevailing scientific standards. Enough is enough!!
naschkatzehussein
· 1 year ago
And the Constitution.
vkobaya
· 1 year ago
Outstanding!
Personally, I wouldn't bash all Catholics or all Christians but the Catholic hierarchy and many of the Fundamentalist megachurch leaders certainly have sided with Satan more than they have with God. I cannot see how they can find Bush preferable and supportable over Obama. Smells to me like those Catholic leaders have the same real objection to Obama that those Fundamentalists do, that is, they don't want a N----- leading this nation. Sigh! That is problematic as the Catholic church had never been racist before though with an evil neo-Nazi like Ratman on the throne in the Vatican, it certainly is believable for him anyway. I also believe that Pope John XXIII was a living saint and he would have been appalled at what Ratman has done to the Catholic Church and loudly condemned him for it. Thus it isn't core Catholicism that is at fault rather the leadership that has perverted it's stance on many, many issues.
vkobaya
· 1 year ago
Everyone may well be right that belief in God is a superstition. I must try to believe though as it is my only bastion of hope since I lost a dear loved one. I would have lost my mind but I spent many hours in the church reciting the rosary again and again against the pain, sorrow and dispair I felt then. Even now, I need to grasp at religion to hold it at bay as well as to rationalize away the bitterness anger and pain that people like George Bush bring into this world. I may not be the only one. Many of us need that "superstition" to function in this world and not give into total dispair. If that sinks your boat, I think that is your flaw, not mine as I have no intention of harming anyone or of interfering with anyone rights to be gay or have an abortion. Nor do I demand you convert to my belief on pain of death.
vkobaya
· 1 year ago
I admit my belief in God may be a superstition. Will you also admit that atheism is also a superstition. I name my bogeyman Satan, yours is called God or religion. You have no more proof that God doesn't exist than I do that God exists. Let me alone to my own personal beliefs as long as they don't harm you or anyone else. Yes, I admit that many believers have committed many atrocities. I would also submit that many other atrocities were committed by those opposed to their beliefs; among the violators were those who follow the superstition of atheism.
sullivan
· 1 year ago
I have no love for the Catholic church, only disdain! This is the same church that allowed a priest to abuse me as a child and request a cover-up, this is the same church that allows a fashion loving man to tell them that gays are evil, even though he has a very handsome personal assistant....very suspect. They are an evil, hypocritical, organization!
Antinous
· 1 year ago
We must be careful here, in times of turmoil people turn to religion and the church looks for scapegoats to gain power, lets not be their goat. Throughout history this has been a pattern of practice, we must fight this in the most ferocious of ways. The gains the churches made in California have given the bigots new heart and an appetite for more, they will not stop. It's time to talk to your friends and family, we will need their support, this is not a time to be silent, but a time to speak up and speak loudly. It is time to fight fire with fire, I see some hard times ahead.
gwpriester
· 1 year ago
Maybe the Catholic Church should put its own house in order.
Paul_In_SF
· 1 year ago
Hell, if I had known that electing Obama was going to piss off the Catholic Church I would have done even more to support his campaign than I already have!
StellasKid
· 1 year ago
So several Catholic bishops skirted close to endorsing the Republican candidate for president? Could Catholics in good conscious have voted for a man who commited adultery and has been divorced??
serge
· 1 year ago
As a thoroughly apostate ex-Catholic, raised in the church, taught by the Sisters of Show-No-Mercy, Benedictines (loved them, actually), and the Jesuits at Georgetown, I say fuck the Church. They need to stay the hell away from the governance of the country.
Their own hands are so filthy, and they can still get righteous? I'll say it again: fuck the Church.
gonzalez
· 1 year ago
I'm a catholic however, these idiots don't speak for me. They create more probelms than what they solve. Screw them!
dacnova
· 1 year ago
An AP article earlier this morning said exit polls indicate Obama got 54% of the Catholic vote. I know that 2 of the votes came from my very Catholic, 83 and 87 year-old parents. The Catholic church is in meltdown and panicking. As a recovered Catholic, I'm enjoying the show.
hawkseye
· 1 year ago
Yes, polls show that large numbers of Catholics consistently ignore the teachings of the church hierarchy on social issues.
ProgressiveMom
· 1 year ago
The Bishops are acting like people who are afraid of losing their power, not losing on an issue. The U.S. hierarchy threw its money down on the Republic Party years ago and -- although they've gotten nothing from the party -- they appear to be doubling down.
It's sad for me to see the hierarchy of the Church more interested in what they can stop, reverse or block and not interested at all in what they used to promote (equality and fairness), advance (economic justice) and add to the average person's quality of life (health care for all).
What happened to this Church?
Older_Wiser
· 1 year ago
Please read history. The church has always been that way. Politics as usual for them.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
What happened? Are you kidding? They are a political party. The Roman Church is a spinoff invented by the Emperor Constantine to generate support for him during a civil war. The Roman Christians supported him, he made them the state church, and they're not ever going to let go of that. They can't because then they have no validity.
hrh
· 1 year ago
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
dula
· 1 year ago
They should be planning on how they are going to prevent their "church" from losing it's tax exempt status for meddling in matters of politics.
AdrianBrowne
· 1 year ago
Why didn't Bush and the Republican Congress make abortion illegal? Even if it would have been challenged why didn't they make it illegal? Why don't the Bishops care about that?
truebluecoondog
· 1 year ago
Because they don't really believe all of that malarkey they spew. It's only to appease the evangelicals and other bible worshipping folk so that they can get their votes.
lynchie
· 1 year ago
In Latrobe, Pa. Bush arranged for a sweatheart deal on a new road access to St. Vincent's church and college. He came to town did a quick ass kiss and lo and behold a new multi lane access road is constructed. The catholic church needs to fix its problem of pedophilia and the cover ups that have gone on for decades. In my view all churches should lose their tax free status. People pay for the priviledge of attending church, this income is therefore taxable. The church can operate as any business does reporting income, expenses and profit. It would open the eyes of many parishioners if the incomes of the pastors etc were revealed. the Joel Osteens and the like might not like the exposure.
cole3244
· 1 year ago
now the catholic bishops are taking on our 47 year old pres elect, whats up, did they run out of little boys already.
This is why Dems should have held Bush accountable for lying to start the Iraq war. Republicans have this "moral" aura that certainly is viewed as greater than it really is. If the War Lies were much more well known and publicly acknowledged, we could ask these Bishops how they can so easily choose Republicans over Democrats. Do these Bishops support starting wars based on lies? I don't hear any of them speaking out about that.
High Crimes & Misdemeanors
· 1 year ago
that Catholics could not in good conscience vote for a candidate who favored abortion rights.
------------------
I cannot in good conscience support the catholic church and their pedophile preachers who favored shut up money over fixing a system of abuse.
That's all that needs to said in return to these punks we call bishops!
LeeFromHamburgNY
· 1 year ago
From the mouths of babes! I remember, at a very young age, talking with my father about how the trouble makers and bullies in school always seemed to be catholic. One of the few serious talks we ever had and one that he agreed with me on.
kladinvt
· 1 year ago
Did someone forget to tell them who absolutely irrelevant they are???
truebluecoondog
· 1 year ago
It's about time for the Catholic Bishops to be educated on the facts that everyone who lives under the law of this land is not Catholic and does not live by the ideals they promote - rampid unaccountable pedophelia not withstanding.
Ben Dover
· 1 year ago
I'm surprised that they will be stopping their molestation of children long enough to confront an adult.
GWMustGo
· 1 year ago
Don't forget "molesting little boys"!
Gay bash - check. Challenge Obama - check. Molest little boys - check check check check check. (Hey - since when did they start issuing Viagara to priests?)
Milli
· 1 year ago
The Catholic Church does not speak to me. I am a former Catholic who went to Catholic schools for 4 years. In 6th grade my friend and I got a detention because we asked our religion teacher how she knows there is a God. There was no ill intent behind our question. Our religion textbook said that the only proof you need to know there is a God is to look around at the trees, etc. and realize that some greater power had to create them. We felt that answer a little lacking so we kept asking our teacher how this is proof. She thought we were being intentionally disrespectful and just came down on us hard. I guess she wanted to make an example out of us. She was later "reprimanded" after my mother raised hell with the principal about it. She hated us after that. She must be proud that she helped stifle the natural curiosity of children for almost two generations..........
Yeah, I don't want these people deciding what is right and wrong for me or anyone else.
PattyP
· 1 year ago
Our religion textbook said that the only proof you need to know there is a God is to look around at the trees, etc. and realize that some greater power had to create them.
And the people who actually believe that are called pagans. ;-)
Bubbles
· 1 year ago
"Why is there something, instead of nothing? "
Thats the ten pounder that bends the mind into a pretzel. But, I figure the answer is "because something is better than nothing." Of course that by itself doesn't mean Catholicism is the only or even valid religion.
Older_Wiser
· 1 year ago
The catholic church is one of the reasons I am a total atheistic heathen.
Criminals hiding behind sanctimony are the worst kind.
Dave of the Jungle
· 1 year ago
Criminality cloaked in sanctimony. Yes.
Apphouse50
· 1 year ago
Wanna see Catholic churches empty out fast?
They should have every priest order his parishioners to refuse all treatment that could cure them of deadly diseases if said treatments emanate from stem cell research. Then they should tell them to refuse the treatment for their loved ones, including their children.
Speaking as a lapsed Catholic, I can tell you unequivocally that Catholics by-and-large cherrypick when it comes to church pronouncements that affect their lives. They love tsk-tsking about morality but when their daughters need abortions, they frequently "find a way," measuring the sin of abortion against the shame of an unwed mother in the family and choosing the former. They practice far more birth control than the rhythm method, trust me.
If the bishops and the Pope want to continue down this path toward irrelevance and oblivion, fine with me. But if they want to waste the time of serious people trying to get stuff done, someone needs to tell them to go pound sand.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
What is really funny is the catholic church along with Bush administration and wacko churchs want to stop any kind of birth control. You know like birth control pill. So many people are in the dark about that. They aren't going to be happy about that. They are so stupid they don't realize that is some kind of abortion to the religious churchs.
Apphouse50
· 1 year ago
I don't think the Catholic Church has opposed the HPV vaccine for young women as some of the fundie Protestant groups have, but that is the one that blows my mind the most. They seem to regard the vaccine as encouraging unmarried sex, and their twisted minds feel it's better to have young women living in fear of cervical cancer and staying "pure." I really hate these people.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Yes, these are the same people that have young daughters that are getting PG and forcing them to have their babies. Just like the girl in FL with Caylee. The tot's mom didn't want a child. The mother forced her into keeping the child. Now I don't get why the parents don't watch their children better. My parents knew who are friends were. We were watched carefully. My parents didn't let us go just any place. I grew up respecting myself and my parents. I didn't experience sex before marriage. I have been married to a wonderful man for 30 yrs. My grandchild mom was PG at 16 with her first child and I was shocked. He was with someelses baby. He is a great kid whom we love. My son married her 5 yrs later and he had a child with her. There marriage didn't last. I worry about my grandchild because her family life isn't stable where our family is stable. He is a better father than she is a mother. The child is a daddy's girl. He the one that takes her to the doctor. She isn't as responsible as he is. He doesn't make a lot of money and we help him. Her family don't seem to be to supportive because she is the type that takes advantage of people. She did us. But we still love her because she is the mother of our grandchild. She knows how to work it. But this kind of person never misses going to church on Wed or Sun. But see nothing wrong with having a baby out of wedlock. It just amazing these people break one of gods law but that is OK but they want to tell others who to love. God will be the judge of all of us. I say it doesn't matter who you are as long as you do no harm to others and live a life that would make you and your partner or spouse and families proud. That is all god wants.
boloboffin
· 1 year ago
Has someone already said Obama is too old for them yet? OK, good.
Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas
· 1 year ago
As a photographer who deals with the gay market in Dallas, I've had the chance to work with a number of male escorts...rentboys. The busiest weeks in Dallas for male whores were in the summer of 2001: The Conference of Catholic Bishops and the Southern Baptist Convention. Work against my civil rights AND suck cock? I will fucking out you.
High Crimes & Misdemeanors
· 1 year ago
I say start outing these MOFO's!!!!!
They deserve no less....
nicho
· 1 year ago
When the Westin Hotel opened in Boston, they had a real problem with the fire alarms going off for no reason. They would evacuate the hotel and find out it was a false alarm.
One week, there was a convention of Catholic educators, including lots of bishops and priests. A gay friend of mine was staying there, and there was a false alarm and evacuation at 2 a.m. My friend said it was a hoot as the priests and bishops came down the fire exit stairs trying to distance themselves from their call boys who were trying to collect their money before leaving.
Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas
· 1 year ago
ROFLMAO The best sex I ever had was at the national catholic music conventions....priests,organists, etc. AMEN!
seohio
· 1 year ago
Maybe the Catholic Church should concern itself with dealing with pedophilia and the ministry.
MnDem
· 1 year ago
Before the election, the priest in our church (in a community that went about 60% for Obama) told us that we needed to look at the candidates in total, not just particular issues. He also said that we needed to see which candidate would promote policies that would help people in need, and not just a few. He then said that NO religious leader had the right to tell us how to vote - that we needed to look into our own hearts and minds and decide. After the sermon, people in the church applauded.
I was so proud and impressed. He probably got a call from the Archbishop the next day, but on that Sunday he stood up for democracy.
mikeyDe
· 1 year ago
In a way the scapegoating has already begun. How many times this week have you heard 'gays in the military' cited as the single big mistake Clinton made in the opening weeks of his administration? I doubt seriously Obama will go near any of the social issues many of his supporters favored.
I also doubt the Catholic Church (or any other religious group) will suffer from the positions its bishops take. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the Catholics who voted for Obama will fight against marriage equality while they support Obama's economic plans.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
Show me a Catholic who challenges the bishops and I'll show you an Episcopalian.
Bubbles
· 1 year ago
Show me where the Episopalian church has the same reverence for Mary, and the saying of the hail mary, and the rosary, and I am an Episcopalian. Oh, and don't forget the confession.
As a cultural catholic I am vulnerable to feeling guilty. Some times I can't put my finger on it as to why. As a cultural catholic I realize that I have to 'confess' the guilt to someone. Really, almost anyone. And when I am under extreme, extreme stress, the hail mary's come flying out of me like bullets from a Gatling gun.
I'm not a practicing catholic. I was raised in a very liberal church - with only seemingly normal priest. But though I do not go any longer, these things are inside me. I need a very liberal catholic church and such a thing just doesn't exist for me any longer, and probably never will. Mine is not an uncommon experience. I am amazed at how much that religion has penetrated me "culturally". I especially miss it around the Christmas holidays.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
You know, all you have to do is walk into any Episcopal church to watch and see how it goes for you. They have internal disputes too, after all, they're human beings. Or, if traditional is important to you, there might be a Traditional Roman Catholic Church in your area. They continue to say the Tredentine (1961 revised) Latin Mass. Or if it's just cultural Catholicism you're concerned about, go to your local RC and be done with it. It's not as if they're sincere, they're just more sly about it than you.
nicho
· 1 year ago
Clinton's error was a rookie mistake. He telegraphed his move. This allowed the other side to prepare a counter-offensive. If you're going to do something like that, never let the other guy know it's coming. He should have just issued the executive order one day and caught them flat-footed. As it was, they were waiting with knives and tire irons. He never made it down the street.
Bubbles
· 1 year ago
That makes sense. But I would also suggest that the "first thing" a candidate does, upon getting elected, should look an awful lot like what and how he campaigned. Period.
The first thing Clinton did, with too much fan fare, as you say, was the gays in the military thing. There might have been purpose in his madness - maybe he wanted to see a national debate, maybe he thought such a debate is necessary for the condition of the minds of conservatives and the nation as a whole to evolve. Some of that makes sense to me.
What didn't make sense to me is that it was the first thing he did after getting elected. Those that were waiting with knives and tire irons stayed that way for eight years, and then were employed in getting Cluster-f*ck elected in 2000.
I like Obama's style so far. I think where he's trying to go with his 'bipartisanship' and even his "lieberman' strategy. He's trying to ensure that conservatives can't get any real traction going on any real issues. The guy seems to have it going on up in the gray matter.
If he appears to be bipartisan and rulling from a reasonable center, the Republican far right is left with only barking-mad dogs, which is, of course very discrediting. The long term effect is one that changes the American culture to looking something like that in Europe, using the 'slow boil' technique (as in slowly bringing a frog to boil). This takes time. A lot of it. But it would be worth it and it is definitely worth trying.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Am catholic and voted for Obama and I support my gay friends. It will happen but you have to be patient. Screaming and yelling only gets the other side pissed more. What does that do? All they will say what a bunch of queens and I hate that because I respect everyones right on this earth to be happy.
scytherius
· 1 year ago
Great news! Let them continue to marginalize themselves and drive people from the pews.
ChicagoKid
· 1 year ago
tax the church!
DemVet
· 1 year ago
You have to realize that most US catholic bishops appointed by brother Wotjyla are sycophant dim-bulbs who don't understand that making abortion safe and legal, combined with strong support of birth control methods, will diminish the number of abortions. You can be Pro-choice and Pro-life. That kind of distinction is above their pay grade.
brb915
· 1 year ago
Especially adding to that taking care of the children, mothers, and families that are already here............................hard, heartbreaking, gutwrenching choices would't have to be made because the future seems so bleak
Bubbles
· 1 year ago
Actually they do realize this - which is exactly why they are against it.
Conservative Bishops miss the days when they held real power and held real prestige. Those where the days when it was their job to confer legitimacy on those who sought to rule over the people. The Bishops offered more than legitimacy. They had the ear to the ground (confession) on subversive thought and access to the mind and conscious of the masses.
Democracy gave the job of conferring legitimacy upon those who sought to rule over people, to the people. Damnit, now, the bishops want that power back.
Abortion is the pretext that also provides a precedent for overthrowing the democratic means with authoritarian one.
That is all abortion issue is about. Of course it's not really about abortion. If abortion were legal, and no one ever chose to have one, it wouldn't be a problem would it? So if you use persuasion and education to eliminate abortion (or minimize it - as done in Holland where it is largely legal and largely free - Holland has the lowest abortion rate in the world) then you don't have to fuss with the legality of it do you?
The Bishops all know this. They aren't trying to eliminate abortion, they are trying to undermine democracy.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
Catholics = Mormons with even more money and more edumacation and a truck load of Euros!
Oh, and Catholic Charities does good work and Mother Teresa was a wonderful human being so you're not allowed to say candidly honest things about Catholics because they are supergoodgood people, just ask them.
jeffg166
· 1 year ago
US catholic bishops are a bunch of bitter, hate filled, old queens.
wmforr
· 1 year ago
And where was their challenge to George Efya Bush's program of war and torture?
When will anyone tell these guys that they are not a political party? Or at least let them be and tax them.
joelb53
· 1 year ago
Why should this surprise us? They helped Hitler kill Jews; they enabled their own home grown fascists (e.g., Father Coughlin) and they covered up pedophilia in their own ranks. There is a reason that they call them the "Whore of Babylon."
kevinbgoode
· 1 year ago
It seems to me that, after criminal behavior involving the lives of over 10,000 people ( and countless others that we don't know about) these bishops and their churches should be included on the child predator listings around the country.
It is abominable enough that so many of them were so willing to engage in covering up criminal behavior (sometimes with the cooperation of local government officials) for over five decades, but then to proclaim they have some kind of moral standing is preposterous. Any other person or smaller institution would have been dissolved and their lives ruined.
It is perhaps even worse that, as these offenders were shuffled around for years from location to location in order to protect the Church's public image, tens of thousands of "sanctified" marriages were performed by these same criminals, not to mention funerals and confessions. How "holy" can any of these unions be now? How righteous could those funerals be?
It seems that the more these religious cults inject their doctrine into our laws and constitutions, the more we should inject our noses into their scam operations. While they stand with their Mormon "brothers" (who they condemn for other things) to persecute the gays, it seems more and more obvious that this is a partnership of thieves designed to create a theocracy of tyranny over the lives of all Americans.
If a Church wants to dictate to its member with their free will and consent, then fine. But it's time for the rest of us to tell them to keep their noses on their own faces.
Gorgonzola
· 1 year ago
The Catholic bishops are no different from the rest of the anti -abortion Republicans. They don't really care if Bush, Reagan etc actually do something to reduce the number of abortions. They're content as long as they hear brave speeches from these guys denouncing pro choice people.
osage
· 1 year ago
And one wonders why there are as many "lapsed" Catholics in America today as there are Catholics who continue to hypocritically pretend to practice/live their faith. As an Irish-American Catholic child of the 50s, I truly believed that the Catholic Church was a bastion of true believers who lived the teachings of their faith. However, when I was twelve-years-old, I took my best friend, an African-American, to mass with me one Sunday. Needless to say, that was the day I became a lapsed Catholic. The contempt, racism and hyprocrisy I felt and witnessed from the adults in my church that day was a gut-punching contradiction of everything I'd been taught by the priests and nuns whom I genuinely believed led exemplary lives of faith. Even a twelve-year-old child can viscerally recognize a betrayal of faith when it is personally experienced. Today's Catholic Church's misuse of it's "bully" pulpit is an exploitation of religion that exemplifies the worst capabilities of modern man. Orgainized religion is the ultimate obstacle between "mankind" and his or her god.
Older_Wiser
· 1 year ago
I was "converted" at age 7 to catholicism; went to 2 catholic elementary (in Buffalo) and 1 catholic jr hi (in Miami) which were totally segregated. Was in the 8th grade when Brown vs. Board was decided and celebrated it, because as a white kid, I had never understood why black kids had to go to separate schools, esp. religious ones...2 yrs later, I left the church.
AndrewIN
· 1 year ago
Can anyone say "tax-exempt status"? How would this be different if the IRS starting enforcing the rules about churches getting involved in politics?
balafre
· 1 year ago
We need to recognize, as a society, that we've entered the 21st century... Kings and queens needed a powerful clergy to help perpetuate the lie of ruling by divine right; Barack Obama will govern as a freely elected President. I wish he would stand up and tell them all to stay the hell out of politics... go perform the charitable works they cite when justifying their tax-exempt status. And take that creepy intriguer Billy Graham with ye!
nathanhj
· 1 year ago
They also prohibited ACORN from getting any money from the Catholic Campaign for Human Development, one of the biggest funders of grassroots organizing in the country and an organization that ACORN has had a 35 year relationship with.
winchester
· 1 year ago
Being raised Catholic, and now a non-practicing one, I can tell you I left the church long ago because of the outdated dogma that continues to pull many followers away from the church. The opposition to abortion is a stand the church will never walk away from, as it is far too deep-rooted. I don’t like the idea of the church trying to directly influence the government though. That’s no stance for any religion to be taking as politics and religion do not make a good mix. The bishops need to stay the hell out of parishioners bedrooms as well as everyone’s governments.
EmGD
· 1 year ago
What are they going to do? Synchronized child molestation? Clearly they don't hold sway with Democrats and drudging up more culture war BS during an economic crisis isn't going to help them. Let them bitch and moan and alienate themselves from their parishioners. They don't actually have any power.
I just wanted to point out that as I type this, there is an ad above my cursor for a petition to end abortion. Odd?
Anyways, I have really felt an urge this year to go back to Mass after walking away from the Church at the age of 12. But then the election stuff heated up. And the abortion stuff. And then I got an email from a Catholic group saying to send them money to fight gay "marriage" (quotes are theirs.) And I thought if I give money at Church, exactly where will it go? To fund hypocritical bigotry and attacks on medical science and reproductive freedom? And Sunday Mass suddenly made me queasy. Hell, maybe I'm an Episcopalian after all. Oh well, less to go to Hell over.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
You have the power friend. Go to mass. When they pass collection basket put an envelop with a note stating you will continue to come to mass but will not contribute to the church as a protest for getting involved in politics. You don't need to say anything. They can't do anything to you as long as you are not disrespectful in church. Let us know how it goes.
Vanessak69
· 1 year ago
That's so simple and obvious, it's genius. You've definitely given me an idea.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
I wish I could take the credit but I read it on another blog. I thought it was a great idea. Just put the note in a envolop and don't sign it let them guess who it is from. It is just a protest in your own silent way. Let us know how it goes. I would be curious. Good luck.
Gary SF
· 1 year ago
I think that the Catholic Church may have a problem with Democrats. Why haven't they 'gone after' Schwarzenegger? He pushed through stem-cell research in California - I think investing $300 million. He was also against proposition 8. I am guessing that because he is a Republican, he gets a pass from the Catholic bishops. Do we need more examples in order to remove the Church's tax-exempt status? Maybe it is because they know they can't push Arnold around that they don't start up with him. If so, there is a lesson to be learned here.
Gary SF
· 1 year ago
Oh, and have they ever admitted that they were wrong about the world being flat? I didn't think so.
balafre
· 1 year ago
They'd bring back the auto da fe if they could...
Elmo_Buzz
· 1 year ago
LET'S MAKE A DEAL:
How about the catholics, and mormans, and all the other religious groups teach their members to hold the values the religious organization holds dear, and leave the rest of us alone. How about they run their religious organizations, without trying to impose thier beliefs, values and morals (or lack thereof) upon society as a whole, as they see fit and let government run according to the constitution as the people see fit. In return for the religious organizations minding their own business, we, the people, will let them keep their tax exempt status.
kevinbgoode
· 1 year ago
Sounds like a good constitutional amendment to me.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Before you start throwing all catholics overboard maybe you should take a look Elmo. Alot of catholics including my family voted for Obama.
red_dwarf
· 1 year ago
Hey Bishops - who in the hell asked you?
You can take your bible and your arguments and go to hell. My religion says use the 300,000+ fertilized zygotes for research instead of throwing them in the goddamn dumpster. Jesus Christ almighty what insanity.
archbishop
· 1 year ago
As an Old Catholic Archbishop who has parishes that survive barely on donations from Sunday worship where the parishes are not in nursing homes where a collection is not taken up, I am now in favor of removing tax exemption from all churches. This would freely allow all churches to participate to the extent they do now in public affairs without the hypocrisy of being tax exempt. It is time. Prop 8 has pushed me over the edge and the fact that the Bishop's conference is planning to battle President Obama on more social and political issues demands this revocation.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Father, that is why the republican party is done for good. People want to leave bedroom issues off the table.
KeithNovo
· 1 year ago
It was that precise bullying that caused me to leave the Catholic Church in 1991. The news of Matthew Wayne Shepard just intensified it. In fact, back in 2000, I listened to a priest who insisted that the Democratic Party was "the party of death". Had I not been with my family, I would have walked out. I just closed my eyes, so he could not see them roll! I would have left the hierarchy right then, had I not already done so. As long as the Catholic hierarchy continue to disobey Christ's teachings, they will face this opposition. Render unto Caear what is Caesar's, not to the theocrats. Even Ireland is waking up.
As a catholic am through contributing to the church. I will give to the salvation army. I suggest any catholics that go to church should put an empty envelop in the basket with a note telling them that you will not support the church if they continue to get involved in politics. If everyone would do that they would sure would change their tune. What liars. They want you to have babies up the ass even if you can't afford them and tell people who they can love or not love. I suggest they get rid of some of those nasty, filthy priests that can't keep their hands off children.
RIPWAMU
· 1 year ago
Or donate to your local womens shelter or community food bank. Go right to the source of those who need it most. Unemployment tends to increase domestic violence and hunger.
gwats1957
· 1 year ago
A blogger who gets it. These phonies sit in their lttle pews every day, insulated from layoffs, bad marriages recessions, Children who are rebellious and angry. They are not working two jobs to keep the house from being taken by the bank or make ends meet or taking care of elderly parents but they have the audacity to tell you and your mate what forms of birth control are God- approved or that you should always choose an unborn child with serious medical conditions over your critically ill adult wife with three little kids at home? Time to tell these child molesting, chain smoking bastards to get real and get out of your face.
labtech777
· 1 year ago
AMEN AND DITTO FROM ME
RIPWAMU
· 1 year ago
Will be funny when they go there thinking he will sit, stand, kneel to their little whims. Good luck with that LOL
RIPWAMU
· 1 year ago
Here is an even stronger stance by those silly Bishops
Are you kidding me? Priests don't have sex (allegedly) so why would I ask one for reproductive counseling? If I need a Lube job or an alternator replaced, I go see a mechanic, not a faith healer. These boys need to get a hobby, not sit around playing voyeur into regular folks sex lives. Jesus said "My Kingdom is no part of this World." Stay OUT of politics and minister to the poor, the downtrodden, the weak, the defenseless among us and quit butting into areas your have no business or experience in... like earning money and raising good kids as parents and especially, POLITICS!!!!!!!
labtech777
· 1 year ago
The Catholic church understands one thing, and that is money!!!!! I agree, we should drop an empty envelope in the collection plate. Soon they would learn to tend to the spiritual healing of the soul and stay out of politics. I quit attending mass because I learned in some long past history class, that church and state are seperate. I listened to a priest tell me how I should vote, and, thought "how dare you!" These pompous asses have no clue. Hit them where it hurts...their big fat bank accounts! I don't see the Church helping to pay the mortgages of any of these foreclosures. If they are going to preach politics, then tax the churches.
BrianHMB
· 1 year ago
Challenge Obama, bash gays...and sodomize an alter boy --all in a day's work for the Catholic bishops.
marty
· 10 months ago
Say what you will about the Catholic Church, and it does have it's problems, but it clothes, feeds, and houses more people in this world than any other organization.
All Comments
Emporer Constantine was the first Neocon. He wanted to control the masses with Religion. Any religion would do, but he picked Catholicism. The planned worked out no different then than it does now. The rich got richer, the poor got poorer, but were compensated by greater access and communion with God. The rich, having got all the assets, used their power and influence to avoid paying taxes. The empire, despite controlling all the resources of Western civilization, when that civilization stretched from Iraq's western border and included all of North Africa and the Eastern Mediterranean, lacked the political will to defeat landless wondering nomadic tribes with almost no resources. A 500 year dark age ensued.
That's the Catholic church. They are the only surviving institution from the Roman Empire. And they don't care if civilization collapses and a new dark age ensues. Been there, done that, and survived, quite nicely.
Those Bishops long for the days when it was there job to confer legitimacy on those who sought to rule. That's real power. Democracy stripped them of that. They want it back. Abortion is the pretext and the new precedent to do just that (gradually - they've got time, lots of it and they aren't going any where - they figure to survive this democracy thing). It's goddamned democracy's fault. I'm catholic (well culturally anyway - I still feel lots of guilt and I rather liked the liturgy back when I used to practice). Don't trust these bastards.
When the conservatives didn't like it when liberalism struck the church in the 1960s, they formed their own branch. I wish liberals would do the same: "New Catholics" or "American Rite" or "Western Orthodox" or something like that.
And I'm a really pissed off at the Knights of Columbus. It came to a point where I threw my Blue Coat of the Year award in the trash. I can't stand the idea of having an award for being Top Cop from an organization that I grew up in and used their money and influence to take rights away from others.
I am forever done with the Roman Catholic church.
Wouldn't it be possible for liberal Catholics to do the same? A Catholicism that doesn't recognize papal infalibility. One that allows parishes to choose their priests. One that allows priests to marry and women to be ordained. One that believes in separation of church and state. etc...
Call it "New Catholic" or "American Rite" or "Western Orthodox" or some such thing. Catholics waiting for the main stream to catch up. I don't go to mass any more. I've looked into Eastern Orthodox, Lutherans, Episcopal, etc... But it's not the same. Even though I don't go, I like the old liturgy. And when I'm in a bind, and under really intense stress I find my self realling of 'hail mary's' with shocking speed.
Joe- you forgot to add "protect pedophiles" to that list of Catholic values.
What would Jesus say?
Personally, I wouldn't bash all Catholics or all Christians but the Catholic hierarchy and many of the Fundamentalist megachurch leaders certainly have sided with Satan more than they have with God. I cannot see how they can find Bush preferable and supportable over Obama. Smells to me like those Catholic leaders have the same real objection to Obama that those Fundamentalists do, that is, they don't want a N----- leading this nation. Sigh! That is problematic as the Catholic church had never been racist before though with an evil neo-Nazi like Ratman on the throne in the Vatican, it certainly is believable for him anyway. I also believe that Pope John XXIII was a living saint and he would have been appalled at what Ratman has done to the Catholic Church and loudly condemned him for it. Thus it isn't core Catholicism that is at fault rather the leadership that has perverted it's stance on many, many issues.
They are an evil, hypocritical, organization!
Their own hands are so filthy, and they can still get righteous? I'll say it again: fuck the Church.
It's sad for me to see the hierarchy of the Church more interested in what they can stop, reverse or block and not interested at all in what they used to promote (equality and fairness), advance (economic justice) and add to the average person's quality of life (health care for all).
What happened to this Church?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4xfMisqab8
------------------
I cannot in good conscience support the catholic church and their pedophile preachers who favored shut up money over fixing a system of abuse.
That's all that needs to said in return to these punks we call bishops!
Gay bash - check.
Challenge Obama - check.
Molest little boys - check check check check check. (Hey - since when did they start issuing Viagara to priests?)
Yeah, I don't want these people deciding what is right and wrong for me or anyone else.
And the people who actually believe that are called pagans. ;-)
Thats the ten pounder that bends the mind into a pretzel. But, I figure the answer is "because something is better than nothing." Of course that by itself doesn't mean Catholicism is the only or even valid religion.
Criminals hiding behind sanctimony are the worst kind.
They should have every priest order his parishioners to refuse all treatment that could cure them of deadly diseases if said treatments emanate from stem cell research. Then they should tell them to refuse the treatment for their loved ones, including their children.
Speaking as a lapsed Catholic, I can tell you unequivocally that Catholics by-and-large cherrypick when it comes to church pronouncements that affect their lives. They love tsk-tsking about morality but when their daughters need abortions, they frequently "find a way," measuring the sin of abortion against the shame of an unwed mother in the family and choosing the former. They practice far more birth control than the rhythm method, trust me.
If the bishops and the Pope want to continue down this path toward irrelevance and oblivion, fine with me. But if they want to waste the time of serious people trying to get stuff done, someone needs to tell them to go pound sand.
They deserve no less....
One week, there was a convention of Catholic educators, including lots of bishops and priests. A gay friend of mine was staying there, and there was a false alarm and evacuation at 2 a.m. My friend said it was a hoot as the priests and bishops came down the fire exit stairs trying to distance themselves from their call boys who were trying to collect their money before leaving.
The best sex I ever had was at the national catholic music
conventions....priests,organists, etc. AMEN!
I was so proud and impressed. He probably got a call from the Archbishop the next day, but on that Sunday he stood up for democracy.
I also doubt the Catholic Church (or any other religious group) will suffer from the positions its bishops take. I'm willing to bet that a lot of the Catholics who voted for Obama will fight against marriage equality while they support Obama's economic plans.
As a cultural catholic I am vulnerable to feeling guilty. Some times I can't put my finger on it as to why. As a cultural catholic I realize that I have to 'confess' the guilt to someone. Really, almost anyone. And when I am under extreme, extreme stress, the hail mary's come flying out of me like bullets from a Gatling gun.
I'm not a practicing catholic. I was raised in a very liberal church - with only seemingly normal priest. But though I do not go any longer, these things are inside me. I need a very liberal catholic church and such a thing just doesn't exist for me any longer, and probably never will. Mine is not an uncommon experience. I am amazed at how much that religion has penetrated me "culturally". I especially miss it around the Christmas holidays.
The first thing Clinton did, with too much fan fare, as you say, was the gays in the military thing. There might have been purpose in his madness - maybe he wanted to see a national debate, maybe he thought such a debate is necessary for the condition of the minds of conservatives and the nation as a whole to evolve. Some of that makes sense to me.
What didn't make sense to me is that it was the first thing he did after getting elected. Those that were waiting with knives and tire irons stayed that way for eight years, and then were employed in getting Cluster-f*ck elected in 2000.
I like Obama's style so far. I think where he's trying to go with his 'bipartisanship' and even his "lieberman' strategy. He's trying to ensure that conservatives can't get any real traction going on any real issues. The guy seems to have it going on up in the gray matter.
If he appears to be bipartisan and rulling from a reasonable center, the Republican far right is left with only barking-mad dogs, which is, of course very discrediting. The long term effect is one that changes the American culture to looking something like that in Europe, using the 'slow boil' technique (as in slowly bringing a frog to boil). This takes time. A lot of it. But it would be worth it and it is definitely worth trying.
Conservative Bishops miss the days when they held real power and held real prestige. Those where the days when it was their job to confer legitimacy on those who sought to rule over the people. The Bishops offered more than legitimacy. They had the ear to the ground (confession) on subversive thought and access to the mind and conscious of the masses.
Democracy gave the job of conferring legitimacy upon those who sought to rule over people, to the people. Damnit, now, the bishops want that power back.
Abortion is the pretext that also provides a precedent for overthrowing the democratic means with authoritarian one.
That is all abortion issue is about. Of course it's not really about abortion. If abortion were legal, and no one ever chose to have one, it wouldn't be a problem would it? So if you use persuasion and education to eliminate abortion (or minimize it - as done in Holland where it is largely legal and largely free - Holland has the lowest abortion rate in the world) then you don't have to fuss with the legality of it do you?
The Bishops all know this. They aren't trying to eliminate abortion, they are trying to undermine democracy.
Oh, and Catholic Charities does good work and Mother Teresa was a wonderful human being so you're not allowed to say candidly honest things about Catholics because they are supergoodgood people, just ask them.
When will anyone tell these guys that they are not a political party? Or at least let them be and tax them.
It is abominable enough that so many of them were so willing to engage in covering up criminal behavior (sometimes with the cooperation of local government officials) for over five decades, but then to proclaim they have some kind of moral standing is preposterous. Any other person or smaller institution would have been dissolved and their lives ruined.
It is perhaps even worse that, as these offenders were shuffled around for years from location to location in order to protect the Church's public image, tens of thousands of "sanctified" marriages were performed by these same criminals, not to mention funerals and confessions. How "holy" can any of these unions be now? How righteous could those funerals be?
It seems that the more these religious cults inject their doctrine into our laws and constitutions, the more we should inject our noses into their scam operations. While they stand with their Mormon "brothers" (who they condemn for other things) to persecute the gays, it seems more and more obvious that this is a partnership of thieves designed to create a theocracy of tyranny over the lives of all Americans.
If a Church wants to dictate to its member with their free will and consent, then fine. But it's time for the rest of us to tell them to keep their noses on their own faces.
http://thesebastards.blogspot.com/
Anyways, I have really felt an urge this year to go back to Mass after walking away from the Church at the age of 12. But then the election stuff heated up. And the abortion stuff. And then I got an email from a Catholic group saying to send them money to fight gay "marriage" (quotes are theirs.) And I thought if I give money at Church, exactly where will it go? To fund hypocritical bigotry and attacks on medical science and reproductive freedom? And Sunday Mass suddenly made me queasy. Hell, maybe I'm an Episcopalian after all. Oh well, less to go to Hell over.
How about the catholics, and mormans, and all the other religious groups teach their members to hold the values the religious organization holds dear, and leave the rest of us alone. How about they run their religious organizations, without trying to impose thier beliefs, values and morals (or lack thereof) upon society as a whole, as they see fit and let government run according to the constitution as the people see fit. In return for the religious organizations minding their own business, we, the people, will let them keep their tax exempt status.
You can take your bible and your arguments and go to hell. My religion says use the 300,000+ fertilized zygotes for research instead of throwing them in the goddamn dumpster. Jesus Christ almighty what insanity.
As long as the Catholic hierarchy continue to disobey Christ's teachings, they will face this opposition. Render unto Caear what is Caesar's, not to the theocrats. Even Ireland is waking up.
http://www.prose-n-poetry.com/display_work/10583/
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-081111bi...
I don't see the Church helping to pay the mortgages of any of these foreclosures.
If they are going to preach politics, then tax the churches.