AMERICAblog: Complaint failed against Mormon Church Prop 8 activities
frank14
· 1 year ago
"Filed" no "Failed", right?
Now to find out what groups/churches sponsored similar actions in other states where initiatives of the same kind passed.
Naked Bunny with a Whip
· 1 year ago
Yeah, that threw me. I thought there was something wrong in that complaint document.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
Boilerplate. I think the closing sentence of the very long-winded argument should read "to determine the extent of any reporting violations" rather than "to determine if there were any reporting violations" but that's just me.
Stevious
· 1 year ago
Failed or Filed?
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
I expect to see at least one "why do you people hate us so much?" response from an LDS member in this thread.
.
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
5 words- Because Mormons acted like assholes.
FunMe
· 1 year ago
Tell the LDS: because you gave over 80% of the YesOnH8 money.
Antinous
· 1 year ago
I do not want their proselytizing, bicycle riding offspring knocking on my door spewing the wonders of the LDS church anymore, enough is enough.
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
That's why we have a big, black dog. the first time she chased off some Watchtower-types, she earned her keep for life (but we'd love her regardless :-) ).
Antinous
· 1 year ago
....or maybe an alligator in a box with a sign on top that says, "Open me first".
seebe
· 1 year ago
The Center for Governmental Studies has an interesting discussion about Prop 8 from a legal standpoint. They discuss the difference between a revision and an amendment to the US Constitution and what it means for the current Supreme Court case against Prop 8.
One question. If you prevail and win the dispute over prop 8, who will be the next target of the LDS? Whoever is the next target, remember to stand with them in their battle, they will need you.
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
Between the money wasted to ultimately lose this thing, and being exposed as rank bigots (despite their attempt to play the victim in all of this), I'm hoping enough people will think twice about doing this again. As for what could be next, look for more anti-adoption stuff a la Arkansas to pop up around the country.
dommyluc
· 1 year ago
WOW! That'll put the "fear of God" into them! It would be sooooo satisfying to finally see these bigots choke on the negative consequences of their actions. They've been able to get away with it at the federal level because of President Dickhead, but now President-elect Obama and his administration owe these people NOTHING, and it will be fun to see them try to force their opinions upon the American public without the backing of the government. The RW religious right and the RW media are only powerful as long as the government gives them legitimacy, and it ain't gonna happen after 1/20/09!
Verchiel
· 1 year ago
Some dirty, dirty hands, it looks like.
But what are the fines, etc.? The Latter Day Bigot Brigade raised tens of millions to attack gay Californians. Is there any chance of this resulting in any meaningful penalty for ignoring the reporting laws?
dommyluc
· 1 year ago
And remember, Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson lost their tax-free exemption status for a few years in the '80s for their violations, so it is not impossible for this to happen. I think this is the best way to go, against the Mormon church, the Catholic church and all the others. Nothing hurts them more than a wallop to their pocketbooks.
Greensburg
· 1 year ago
Well once this is all said and done, I guess Mitt can kiss his mormon ass goodbye as far as the POTUS is concerned. Was it really worth it mormons, to keep my civil rights away from me?
JetSetter
· 1 year ago
John, I know you like yourself some Catholics, but the Mormons weren't the sole evildoers in this operation:
"Months before the first ads would run on Proposition 8, San Francisco Catholic Archbishop George Niederauer reached out to a group he knew well, Mormons.
Niederauer had made critical inroads into improving Catholic-Mormon relations while he was Bishop of Salt Lake City for 11 years. And now he asked them for help on Prop. 8, the ballot measure that sought to ban same-sex marriages in California."
I say some Catholic parishes need some picketing too.
Now I'm as mad as the next guy about this horrible mandate, however, I have to say, I'm pretty pissed at our side for taking things for granted and underorganizing at the outset. We allowed the other side to get their message out first to people who could have been our allies. All these protests are kinda shutting the barn door after the horse has escaped.
I feel like everyone in San Fran and WeHo are so ghettoized that they never dreamed their rights were threatened. (I had people calling me at the No on 8 office asking when the victory party was being held, but they said they didn't have time to come in to phone bank)
miando
· 1 year ago
DOH!!!! The head of the Mormon church is named THOMAS S Monson, not David! They are going to strike ridicule more than fear in hearts if they can't get basic facts right. To Utah and the Mormon community, getting the name of their prophet wrong is a major gaffe and will really diminish the credibility of all the other facts presented. If that wasn't well researched, how much of the rest was? What a shame.
LowKey
· 1 year ago
It is not a major gaffe, it is a minor one. And a useful one to boot. It helps subtely demonstrate how insignificant they are on a national scale of things when normal people do not know the exact name of their cult leader. And it irritates them.
And speaking of misspellings: Profit, not prophet. ;-P
Sacanagem
· 1 year ago
Uh oh. Ricki Shae will not be pleased.
doomScooby
· 1 year ago
The courts are going to invalidate the vote anyway. It is clearly unconstitutional because the psuedo-law violates the equal protection clause of the US Constitution. Also, you can't necessarily change the California constitution through a proposition vote.
A comment on the Boycott--
Believe it or not--exposing more Mormons in Utah to alternative lifestyles will help further equality. Many Mormons who don't support 8 have friends and relatives that are gay. They see that it is a civil matter on top of a moral one, and clearly sympathize with those who want equality. Those who live in a world where there aren't any gays, don't see the civil matter. I say same-gender couples should flood the state--be friendly to the Mormons. 'kill with kindness . . . more flies with honey, etc.' Being antagonistic doesn't furhter any cause.
DavidinPS
· 1 year ago
But it does. Can't we do both?
doomScooby
· 1 year ago
The main resolve of those who backed 8 believe that same-gender attraction is a temptation from the devil. They belive they are fighting the great adversary here. If you fight back, it strengthens their resolve, and they become more sanctified. It will warrant more conflict. No dialogue. No progress. Come on now--didn't we all learn this in the 60s?
Ben Dover
· 1 year ago
I again disagree. Not fighting back is what strengthens their resolve. Shining a light on cockroaches always sends them skittering back to where they came. And I believe that is what needs to be done in this instance. Not fighting back, not standing up for what is right, empowers the Mormon Cult to continue with it's extreme pogram of disenfranchisement of those that do not adhere to their archaic and false belief system.
gwyneth
· 1 year ago
I agree with scooby, we want to do things to help further our main cause which is equal civil rights, if we just say to heck with it - let's ban the whole State of Utah then they become more backwards and it puts the population here that supports you already at a disadvantage to educate.
But, protesting the Church is definitely appropriate, along with all the donators... I guess you will do what you think is right and I'll be standing behind you. Even if it means I'll be living with backwards freaks for the rest of my life! (unless I move) :(
doomScooby
· 1 year ago
Well see--you are calling them cockroaches. You have just given them liberty to call you a cockroach also. Where did that get you?
Ben Dover
· 1 year ago
Look, I cut my teeth on Anita Bryant waaaay back. I was a full participant in various ActUp demonstrations. I fought long and hard during Colorado's Amendment 2 debacle. I know what works. If you want to hug a Mormon Cultist and sing Kumbaya that fine, it's your business. You do it your way.
I'll do it my way.
And I only hope that in the end we both win.
Peace.
doomScooby
· 1 year ago
Right-on
cilidog
· 1 year ago
I agree with you Ben, I "cut my teeth" marching on the Reagan White House (when he chose to ignore the exploding AIDS crisis) and, we DID affect change.
Cheers!
kevinbgoode
· 1 year ago
They SAY they believe they are fighting the temptation from the devil. But then, they say a whole lot of other things that are intentional lies - and then lie again and say they are "Christian."
Ben Dover
· 1 year ago
Sorry to disagree, but that tactic has never worked before and IMHO will not work today. The Mormon Cult and the baby Jesus squeezers understand only one thing...cash. Destroy them financially and they'll soon "see the light".
doomScooby
· 1 year ago
Well--if you equivocate this movement with other civil rights movements in the past, efforts were better spent on legal solutions and open dialogue. The "jesus squeezers" are a huge majority in this country and have more resources than can be imagined.
nicho
· 1 year ago
Sorry, Scooby, but that theory -- that exposing the straights to happy, carefree gay people will stop the hate -- has been proven false.
Best example: Here in Palm Springs, it's 40-50 percent gay. It's impossible for a straight person to spend 24 hours without encountering a gay person. They interact at all levels, they socialize, gays shop in straight stores, straights eat in gay restaurants, they live in the same condo complexes, they serve on committee together. We have a gay mayor and a gay deputy mayor.
In Palm Springs, 30 percent of the total vote was in support of Prop 8. If you take the gay voters out of the mix, then 60 percent of the non-gay voters voted against the gays -- just about the same as in the rest of the county where the interaction doesn't take place.
Ben Dover
· 1 year ago
I'm starting to think that a "Slap A Mormon For Jesus" campaign might have some advantages as well.
Stop the Mormon Cult in it's tracks, destroy them financially.
barts
· 1 year ago
Did anyone else see the heated discussion over Prop hate last night on Anderson Cooper 360? Tony Perkins kept reiterating the religious right mantra that marriage is to be protected to be one man/woman to protect the children. Boy, I'd wish someone would have asked him if the constitution should amended to outlaw divorce.
lilybart
· 1 year ago
Exposing them is the best part of this. I hope they get fined as well, although the Mormon church is so rich it would hardly matter.
gmgrimace
· 1 year ago
Certainly members of the Mormon church as well as many others had a big part in organizing the campaign on Prop. 8. However, if you want to pin the reason for its passage--in part, President-Elect Obama. The African American vote was at an all time high in California. Despite this voting block's democratic leanings, 70% of the African American voters supported Prop. 8. This was the few percentage points that got the yes vote a win.
Of course I am not saying Barack Obama was the sole reason for 8 passing; however, his energizing of the African American vote did.
TPierce
· 1 year ago
Yes, but at least minority voters voted for themselves. There was no massive effort on behalf of an organization of African-American churches headquartered in Nebraska, say, to direct their vote.
gmgrimace
· 1 year ago
I believe you are right in that there was not a national effort among African-American churches. However, I do know that most of the African-American churches in my neck of the woods were very vigilent in preaching vote on Prop 8 from the pulpit.
My previous comment was more of an observation than a criticism. I think it is important to understand the reasons for Prop 8's passage and the motives behind those that voted yes. Unfortunalely, many of the vocal No on 8 supporters have not taken a step back to figure some of this stuff out. Rather, they are enraged and seeking vengeance. Although it may make them feel good for the moment, in the end it really hurts the cause.
DavidinPS
· 1 year ago
No it doesn't. What do you base your assertion on?
gmgrimace
· 1 year ago
Which assertion . . . I will comment on both toward the end of my post (enraged/seeking vengence and in the end it hurts):
Enraged/Vengeance - I have read more than a handful of blogs and comments to articles on this topic. Excluding some of the very insighful comments made by others on this website, most of what I have read is throwing blame and discussing an effort to "make them pay."
It Only Hurts the Cause - it is important to realize that this issue, as polarizing as it is, has swept up a lot of folks that are not hot on this issue one way or the other. I think most wish this was not even up for a vote and were happy with the way things were. These neutral voters based their decisions on the way the yes and the no campaigners behaved. If this is going to come back again for a vote, coming across as hateful or angry does not help. It may not sway many voters, but in a tight election, every vote will count.
TPierce
· 1 year ago
I'm sorry if you thought I was jumping on you. I'm just pretty jacked over that letter.
I am not sure I agree that the protests hurt the cause. The LDS made a major move in the arena of the State (as opposed to Church), and they are now learning that there are consequences.
I also don't blame the protesters. To gain marriage and lose it in little more than a year--they must be feeling whipsawed.
kevinbgoode
· 1 year ago
I don't think it hurts the cause at all. It certainly didn't hurt the Yes campaign to engage in promoting misinformation or to declare this as a sort of cultural "last stand."
gwyneth
· 1 year ago
They may be enraged and seeking vengence through due process. Their protesting that their civil rights are gone at the moment which you or any other citizen would be. Yes voters have done what they think is right and people adamant against it, like myself who think it is in fact unconstitutional have a right to protest and boycott.
By the way, Mormons have been on the news with "we're victimized!" argument. Someone's been vandalizing churchs around the area. But, after all my experience with the LDS Church, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to learn that they threw the bricks through their own windows so that they could play the victim card. Not one bit.
raycoog
· 1 year ago
This comment is absurd. First of all, no Mormon I know would desecrate his own church for the sake of getting pity from the community. The LDS Church did not get to its current stature by whinning. Secondly, we know some of our doctrines and policies are unpopular with segments of the population, yet we stand by them under pressure because we believe in them. We found out long ago that "playing the victim card" does not work. I would love to know what "experience" you claim to have with the LDS Church.
What I find truly amazing is, by my calculation, even if EVERY LDS registered voter VOTED for Prop 8, that would account for 250,000 votes, which is only 4% of the six million YES votes cast. Apparently, a lot of Catholics, Evangelicals, Blacks and Hispanics pushed the YES button too. Where is the backlash against them? And I understand your anger over the purported funding irregularities and out-of-state grassroots efforts, but do you really think phone calls and yard signs swayed a half million voters on such a key moral issue? You're either for it or against it. "NO" voters lost, so now it's time to stop crying about it and go back to work via the political process to get your way. Petty vandalism only makes you look foolish.
VietVet
· 1 year ago
Don't getcher magic knickers in a twist!
pete
· 1 year ago
If you truly believe that "phone calls and yard signs" (among other things) don't work and/or wouldn't be effective enough that they couldn't sway 258,225 people (2.1% of voters) to vote Yes rather than No, then I think you are completely clueless. There's a whole industry of professional campaigners that would disagree with you...not to mention, by the way, the LDS Church since it backed exactly those efforts in order to achieve this result.
Mentioning the small 4% population of mormon electorate is completely beside the point - the campaign wasn't directed only at mormons. I disagree also that there hasn't been a backlash against other churches and ethnic groups - the difference here is that the Church launched a coordinated campaign to influence social policy in California - when it isn't even located there. What, did they think "As goes CA, so soon will go Utah?"
raycoog
· 1 year ago
Hello Pete,
Thanks for the reply.? Your point is well-taken.? The publicity campaign would increase awareness that Prop 8 was on the ballot, and would get people to the polls,?but I still don't think it would change minds.? Gay marriage has been around long enough for the majority to have thought it through.?
Regarding a "Utah church" sticking its nose into California's business, the Mormon Church is located in California, and everywhere else for that matter.? After the initial letter from church headquarters, there was no additional action?from Mormon leadership.? California Mormons took it from there.??It was they?who initiated the?phone?and foot canvassing, and the fund-raising campaigns.? I'm an active?Mormon living in Colorado, and I watched Prop 8 closely and was very concerned with its outcome. ?Your logic should include a complaint that "that church in Rome" should butt out. ?The 750,000 Mornoms living in California, as well as any other?like-minded residents are those with the most at stake.? They are the ones who will be faced with questions by their?6 year olds as to why the two men in tuxedos on TV are getting married.? Mormons do not hate gays. but we are concerned that as?homosexuality is?perceived more and more?as a normal, acceptable?alternative to traditional marriage, some?individuals who would not lean that way otherwise,?may become curious and experiment with it.? I personally believe in the slippery slope theory, so from that standpoint, your comment is correct:? As goes California, so goes Utah and everywhere else.?
You're not being intellectually honest when you say other churches and groups are receiving backlash.? Maybe my news souuce is different from yours, but I haven't heard of 30 separate incidents of vandalism directed at any other group.
Ray
pete
· 1 year ago
The contribution of african americans to this loss is vastly overstated, founded in very weak statistical sampling by CNN - which CNN freely admits. the post on the dailykos gives an in depth look behind these numbers: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/11/7/34645/1... and points out the statistical improbability (if not impossibility) and the ridiculousness of overlooking that blacks are just 6.7% of the CA population (1/2 of the national average), that for every black person there are 7 whites, 6 latinos and 2 asians in CA...etc.
HereinDC
· 1 year ago
"Certainly members of the Mormon church as well as many others had a big part in organizing the campaign on Prop. "
(I see the trolls have their talking point down pat.)
Who played the big part in MONEY$$$$$$?
( Notice how the trolls don't mention the $$$$ )
gmgrimace
· 1 year ago
Organizing certainly entails money, but much more than that. I looked up who gave money in support of Prop 8 in my community and it was mostly $100 to $250 per donor. Whether you like it or not, that is effective organizing.
TPierce
· 1 year ago
Reading this just about gave me an orgasm.
As long as I felt this was being done by Mormons within California, I was going to grit my teeth, because I knew nothing could be done. What this letter says, basically, is that the Mormon Church invaded California. Pure and simple. Now that Perkins spokesmuppet is squalling on CNN and elsewhere that the rights of religious organizations are being violated. If this doesn't show the reverse, that this particular church organization did some serious violation of a sovereign state's electoral process, I don't know what does.
JamesR
· 1 year ago
I found this: http://lds501c3.wordpress.com/ titled "Revoke LDS Church 501(c)(3) Status" - it's information on how you (anybody) can make their own complaint to the IRS to complain and request investigation.
Might siphon off some bloggo-angst from this thread for a bit, but it would (probably) go to a productive space. !?
Links to the regulation(s) I believe are there, It's a lot to digest I have not gone into it. But ANYONE can complain! The crux seems to be the 'political candidate' vs. specific ballot issue. They probably think they (and other churches) are OK as they didn't require money from their members go to a specific candidate. [Tax lawyers pile on here.]
- It just hasn't been tested yet. America sure needs the money, and the IRS rules! (Unfortunately, usually, LOL.)
shell
· 1 year ago
I am not officially blaming this on out-of-state Mormons, but it is an odd situation:
I lived in Sacramento County. This whole election season, I have received many political calls -- candidates, propositions, etc., but none (read: 0) from GOPers. I have signed petitions a LOT, online, given donations to progressive candidates/causes, again online, and my email address has never been bought, until now. The night before the elections, I got an evil phone call, with Obama's voice, urging me to vote YES on 8. Others have told me they got similar calls, only with Bill Clinton's voice.
The number it came from was 1-234-567-8900.
This should be illegal, and is, as far as I know. But no one will listen.
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
LDS = PAC
Latter Day Saints = Political Action Committee
FunMe
· 1 year ago
WOW!
I'm impressed. Thank you Californians Against Hate!
It's going to get messier for the Mormon cult.
Chrissy
· 1 year ago
Yeah, I've mentioned this before -- what were the actual amounts of the Mormon Church in kind contribution. I know they are hiding alot of it.
vkobaya
· 1 year ago
SC priest: No communion for Obama supporters Associated Press November 13, 2008 6:19 PM EST
COLUMBIA, S.C. - A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him "constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil."
To say nothing of the intrinsic evil of bigotry and of damning to hell others based on that bigotry. My guess is this priest only molested girls, not boys so he isn't a damned to hell for being evil wicked homosexual.
vkobaya
· 1 year ago
Also have to say, this priest finds nothing wrong with Bush's brutal mass and serial murders of 4,200 American soldiers, and 1.3 million Iraqi, nor does he object to hundreds more dead American soldiers in Afghanistan and hundreds of thousands more dead Afghani. No, no only having N----- in the White HOuse is a sin that raises his ire and desire to excommunicate 66 million Americans who voted for that N-----, separating them from God's love forever and damning them to hell forever.
sharksfansd
· 1 year ago
Well, well. Somewhere on a thread from a few days ago a prop 8 supporter was very testy with me when I said some $ were funneled from UT to CA. He/she had a very defensive reply and only admitted the travel gaffe mentioned above. Guess they knew more was going to be revealed...? Can't wait for CA AG's response!
jasonut29
· 1 year ago
Its my understanding that the call center that the mormons used was the Melaluca call center in Rexburg, Idaho. The owner of Melaluca is from Idaho Falls and his wife contributed $100,000 to the yes on 8 campaign.....this should be one more business to boycott. Obviously they are mormons and and often get involved in controversial issues. He paid for full page ads criticizing a local reporter for doing research and writing on a convicted pedophile who got some breaks from the mormon sponsored boy scout organizations because guess what he was mormon!!! He molested multiple kids and the Melaluca owner felt it was wrong to bring it up and of course it didn't help that the reporter was gay....and was "outed" by this jerk. Anyway melaluca deserves alot more investigation.
……the the Prop 8 campaign -- after first denying it -- admitted to sending certified letters to companies that donated to "No on 8" and Equality California (one of the major funders of the No campaign) demanding that the companies provide a matching donation to Yes on 8, or they would be "outed." ProtectMarriage.com, a group that includes Mark Jansson, a self-described member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: sent a certified letter this week asking companies to withdraw their support of Equality California, a nonprofit organization that is helping lead the campaign against Proposition 8. "Make a donation of a like amount to ProtectMarriage.com which will help us correct this error," reads the letter. "Were you to elect not to donate comparably, it would be a clear indication that you are in opposition to traditional marriage. ... The names of any companies and organizations that choose not to donate in like manner to ProtectMarriage.com but have given to Equality California will be published." Ballsy no? And verging on illegal. Unfortunately, it is just the latest in a series of lies, smears and distortions from the Prop 8 campaign and in particular the Mormon Church.
mr_matalino
· 1 year ago
Legal? 1st amendment. Dang that 1st amendment...
Karen
· 1 year ago
This is great! The "highly secretive" involvement of the Church includes 9 commercials, 4 video broadcasts, 2 satellite simulcasts, as well as "very elaborate websites." That's sure not my idea of secret.
It is interesting that Fred Karger cannot fathom volunteers paying for their own signs and bus tickets. I think he would also be surprised to learn that local parishes (called "wards") have no paid clergy, either. Everyone you see at church is a volunteer. It is definitely amazing, but hardly sinister.
Incidentally, the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is Thomas S. Monson--not David.
Shaun
· 1 year ago
It's cool to see so many bigots on one page. Hate sure is wrong-except against mormons! If people want to donate time and money for a cause that is up to them. Churches are supposed to speak out against sin. So sorry we didn't keep our mouths shut and sit quietly in the back of the bus. When you bigots come calling like the hatemongers in Missouri did to the early pioneers, I be waiting for you. See you real soon.
Shaun
· 1 year ago
By the way, you guys are all a bunch of psychos.
Kaela
· 1 year ago
I don't see where the Mormons did anything wrong! We are all free to speak and act as we choose. That's the beauty of living in the United States of America. Our freedom. Ever wonder why they are targeting the Mormons for all this? A LOT of other people helped with this movement. Other churches helped. It was a joint effort by people who stand for something and fight for it. No matter what side someone is on they should look to the success of others and learn not tear them down because they didn't get what they wanted. Leave them alone and move on.
Randy
· 12 months ago
Mormons certainly have every right to express their opinions. However, there just happen to be laws and regulations regarding certain activities that a "church" or "non-profit" organization can be involved with, and still retain "tax-exempt" status. If the Mormons want to act like a "non-exempt" organization, then they don't deserve the "exemption".
They (Mormon church) can't have their cake and eat it, too!
Cake Eater
· 8 months ago
Why can they not have cake and eat it too. That's stupid! Why would you buy a cake if you couldn't eat it too ... ?
Jay
· 12 months ago
Quite apart from their violation of campaign laws, what irritates me about the Mormons is that they lie. The campaign that they funded in California was full of lies and distortions, including stating that the schools would have to teach kindergarten students about homosexuality, that churches would be forced to perform gay weddings, and that ministers would be charged with hate crimes. I think a boycott of Utah and of Mormon-owned businesses is surely in order.
2771
· 12 months ago
How many of you people actually know what you are talking about? You are spewing all of this "anti-mormonisms"~do you understand the religion at all....as for it being a cult......people that call any religion a cult are just showing their ignorance and fear. If I want to give money to something I firmly believe in, I will...I don't need a prophet, a priest, or a bishop to tell me whether to do it or not. Educate yourselves kids, you all look very ignorant.
Rick
· 12 months ago
The Mormon Church lied? I don't think so. If Proposition 8 would have passed in California, all that would need to happen would be for the California Supreme Court , outside of the voice of the people, to expand the leagal definition of same sex couples and the same thing that happened in Massachusetts would happen in California. One domino would fall after the other. The Mormon Church had a stake in the election in California to protect its members rights who live within the state. As was stated by one article that the Mormons are really a minority in California. The anti-proposition 8ers were so sure that they would win, but the voice of the people have spoken. The game is over. There is no 10th inning. Some day the voice of the people may speak in favor of same sex couples, and when that happens, I don't think you will see Mormons vandalizing pro-gay properties, harassing different sex couples, and such. Same sex couples don't deserve a democracy, but a commune. Who is the cult now? Think about. I am sorry that you didn't get your way, but not too sorry.
girl
· 11 months ago
umm just to let you know that it is BYU idaho REXBURG. get your facts straight if your going to complain about things.
Susan
· 9 months ago
To whom it may concern,
My name is Susan Pollak. Even though I am not a homosexual I can truly understand the homosexual communities frustration towards the Mormons and Prop 8. I was in a relationship with a Mormon. When I chose to break it off due to the the extreme domestic abuse by the father against me the Mormons preceded to take my custody rights away from me for breaking up a "Mormon family". I did nothing wrong to my child. I only took him to a doctor and the church thought I was in the wrong and took my child away from me. The Mormons teach hate and intolerance of others. I should know I have been around them for about 8 years. The Mormons in Southern Idaho and Utah are taking children away from their non-Mormon mothers and handing custody over to the Mormon fathers. So when I heard about what the Mormons were pulling with the prop 8 in California I was mad but not surprised. I am so sorry that the gay community has to deal with this cult. It is bad enough for us non-Mormon mothers. Mormons are against blacks, women, homosexuals, Jews, Mexicans, you name it. I don't know if what I wrote will mean anything to you but I just wanted you to know that I support the gay community and other causes against those who choose to be bigots and oppress minority's and those who do not fit in the Mormon mold. The Mormons and the government have no right to tell two consenting adults what they can or can't do in their own homes or lives nor tell a parent how to raise their children.
Jeff
· 8 months ago
To Susan,
I am sorry for your difficulties. It must be difficult to be away from your child. I can help but suspect, however, that your anger is misplaced. The Mormon Church is a religious organization, not a governmental organization. Issues regarding custody of children are governmental issues, and are not within the control of religious institutions. Therefore if you lost your child, it cannot be because the Mormons took your child from you. It is because a government agency or court of law ruled that it should be so.
I also must take issue with your characterization of Mormons as bigots, racial or otherwise. The Mormon Church itself has clearly spoken out against such arbitrary hatred, stating that no person harboring hatred against others for their race, gender or other such characteristics can consider himself or herself a true disciple of Jesus Christ. I imagine that there are individual members of the Mormon Church who are racially insensitive (the Church would not have made such a statement if there weren't), but my experience is that they are certainly in the minority.
I also want to clarify that neither the government, nor the Mormon Church, nor any other proponent of Proposition 8 purport to "tell two consenting adults what they can do in their own homes." Proposition 8 does not speak to acts, sexual or otherwise, that happen in the home. Rather it is a movement to define marriage and protect the sanctity of the family that was carried out as a legitimate exercise of 1st Amendment rights of the Proposition's proponents.
All Comments
Now to find out what groups/churches sponsored similar actions in other states where initiatives of the same kind passed.
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Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNX4jgLpPvA
http://www.truveo.com/Some-LDS-members-leaving-...
http://signingforsomething.org/blog/
As for what could be next, look for more anti-adoption stuff a la Arkansas to pop up around the country.
But what are the fines, etc.? The Latter Day Bigot Brigade raised tens of millions to attack gay Californians. Is there any chance of this resulting in any meaningful penalty for ignoring the reporting laws?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/...
"Months before the first ads would run on Proposition 8, San Francisco Catholic Archbishop George Niederauer reached out to a group he knew well, Mormons.
Niederauer had made critical inroads into improving Catholic-Mormon relations while he was Bishop of Salt Lake City for 11 years. And now he asked them for help on Prop. 8, the ballot measure that sought to ban same-sex marriages in California."
I say some Catholic parishes need some picketing too.
Now I'm as mad as the next guy about this horrible mandate, however, I have to say, I'm pretty pissed at our side for taking things for granted and underorganizing at the outset. We allowed the other side to get their message out first to people who could have been our allies. All these protests are kinda shutting the barn door after the horse has escaped.
I feel like everyone in San Fran and WeHo are so ghettoized that they never dreamed their rights were threatened. (I had people calling me at the No on 8 office asking when the victory party was being held, but they said they didn't have time to come in to phone bank)
And speaking of misspellings: Profit, not prophet. ;-P
A comment on the Boycott--
Believe it or not--exposing more Mormons in Utah to alternative lifestyles will help further equality. Many Mormons who don't support 8 have friends and relatives that are gay. They see that it is a civil matter on top of a moral one, and clearly sympathize with those who want equality. Those who live in a world where there aren't any gays, don't see the civil matter. I say same-gender couples should flood the state--be friendly to the Mormons. 'kill with kindness . . . more flies with honey, etc.' Being antagonistic doesn't furhter any cause.
But, protesting the Church is definitely appropriate, along with all the donators... I guess you will do what you think is right and I'll be standing behind you. Even if it means I'll be living with backwards freaks for the rest of my life! (unless I move) :(
If you want to hug a Mormon Cultist and sing Kumbaya that fine, it's your business. You do it your way.
I'll do it my way.
And I only hope that in the end we both win.
Peace.
Cheers!
Best example: Here in Palm Springs, it's 40-50 percent gay. It's impossible for a straight person to spend 24 hours without encountering a gay person. They interact at all levels, they socialize, gays shop in straight stores, straights eat in gay restaurants, they live in the same condo complexes, they serve on committee together. We have a gay mayor and a gay deputy mayor.
In Palm Springs, 30 percent of the total vote was in support of Prop 8. If you take the gay voters out of the mix, then 60 percent of the non-gay voters voted against the gays -- just about the same as in the rest of the county where the interaction doesn't take place.
Stop the Mormon Cult in it's tracks, destroy them financially.
Of course I am not saying Barack Obama was the sole reason for 8 passing; however, his energizing of the African American vote did.
My previous comment was more of an observation than a criticism. I think it is important to understand the reasons for Prop 8's passage and the motives behind those that voted yes. Unfortunalely, many of the vocal No on 8 supporters have not taken a step back to figure some of this stuff out. Rather, they are enraged and seeking vengeance. Although it may make them feel good for the moment, in the end it really hurts the cause.
Enraged/Vengeance - I have read more than a handful of blogs and comments to articles on this topic. Excluding some of the very insighful comments made by others on this website, most of what I have read is throwing blame and discussing an effort to "make them pay."
It Only Hurts the Cause - it is important to realize that this issue, as polarizing as it is, has swept up a lot of folks that are not hot on this issue one way or the other. I think most wish this was not even up for a vote and were happy with the way things were. These neutral voters based their decisions on the way the yes and the no campaigners behaved. If this is going to come back again for a vote, coming across as hateful or angry does not help. It may not sway many voters, but in a tight election, every vote will count.
I am not sure I agree that the protests hurt the cause. The LDS made a major move in the arena of the State (as opposed to Church), and they are now learning that there are consequences.
I also don't blame the protesters. To gain marriage and lose it in little more than a year--they must be feeling whipsawed.
By the way, Mormons have been on the news with "we're victimized!" argument. Someone's been vandalizing churchs around the area. But, after all my experience with the LDS Church, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to learn that they threw the bricks through their own windows so that they could play the victim card. Not one bit.
What I find truly amazing is, by my calculation, even if EVERY LDS registered voter VOTED for Prop 8, that would account for 250,000 votes, which is only 4% of the six million YES votes cast. Apparently, a lot of Catholics, Evangelicals, Blacks and Hispanics pushed the YES button too. Where is the backlash against them? And I understand your anger over the purported funding irregularities and out-of-state grassroots efforts, but do you really think phone calls and yard signs swayed a half million voters on such a key moral issue? You're either for it or against it. "NO" voters lost, so now it's time to stop crying about it and go back to work via the political process to get your way. Petty vandalism only makes you look foolish.
Mentioning the small 4% population of mormon electorate is completely beside the point - the campaign wasn't directed only at mormons. I disagree also that there hasn't been a backlash against other churches and ethnic groups - the difference here is that the Church launched a coordinated campaign to influence social policy in California - when it isn't even located there. What, did they think "As goes CA, so soon will go Utah?"
Thanks for the reply.? Your point is well-taken.? The publicity campaign would increase awareness that Prop 8 was on the ballot, and would get people to the polls,?but I still don't think it would change minds.? Gay marriage has been around long enough for the majority to have thought it through.?
Regarding a "Utah church" sticking its nose into California's business, the Mormon Church is located in California, and everywhere else for that matter.? After the initial letter from church headquarters, there was no additional action?from Mormon leadership.? California Mormons took it from there.??It was they?who initiated the?phone?and foot canvassing, and the fund-raising campaigns.? I'm an active?Mormon living in Colorado, and I watched Prop 8 closely and was very concerned with its outcome. ?Your logic should include a complaint that "that church in Rome" should butt out. ?The 750,000 Mornoms living in California, as well as any other?like-minded residents are those with the most at stake.? They are the ones who will be faced with questions by their?6 year olds as to why the two men in tuxedos on TV are getting married.? Mormons do not hate gays. but we are concerned that as?homosexuality is?perceived more and more?as a normal, acceptable?alternative to traditional marriage, some?individuals who would not lean that way otherwise,?may become curious and experiment with it.? I personally believe in the slippery slope theory, so from that standpoint, your comment is correct:? As goes California, so goes Utah and everywhere else.?
You're not being intellectually honest when you say other churches and groups are receiving backlash.? Maybe my news souuce is different from yours, but I haven't heard of 30 separate incidents of vandalism directed at any other group.
Ray
(I see the trolls have their talking point down pat.)
Who played the big part in MONEY$$$$$$?
( Notice how the trolls don't mention the $$$$ )
As long as I felt this was being done by Mormons within California, I was going to grit my teeth, because I knew nothing could be done. What this letter says, basically, is that the Mormon Church invaded California. Pure and simple. Now that Perkins spokesmuppet is squalling on CNN and elsewhere that the rights of religious organizations are being violated. If this doesn't show the reverse, that this particular church organization did some serious violation of a sovereign state's electoral process, I don't know what does.
Might siphon off some bloggo-angst from this thread for a bit, but it would (probably) go to a productive space. !?
Links to the regulation(s) I believe are there, It's a lot to digest I have not gone into it. But ANYONE can complain! The crux seems to be the 'political candidate' vs. specific ballot issue. They probably think they (and other churches) are OK as they didn't require money from their members go to a specific candidate. [Tax lawyers pile on here.]
- It just hasn't been tested yet. America sure needs the money, and the IRS rules! (Unfortunately, usually, LOL.)
I lived in Sacramento County. This whole election season, I have received many political calls -- candidates, propositions, etc., but none (read: 0) from GOPers. I have signed petitions a LOT, online, given donations to progressive candidates/causes, again online, and my email address has never been bought, until now. The night before the elections, I got an evil phone call, with Obama's voice, urging me to vote YES on 8. Others have told me they got similar calls, only with Bill Clinton's voice.
The number it came from was 1-234-567-8900.
This should be illegal, and is, as far as I know. But no one will listen.
Latter Day Saints = Political Action Committee
I'm impressed. Thank you Californians Against Hate!
It's going to get messier for the Mormon cult.
Associated Press
November 13, 2008 6:19 PM EST
COLUMBIA, S.C. - A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him "constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil."
To say nothing of the intrinsic evil of bigotry and of damning to hell others based on that bigotry. My guess is this priest only molested girls, not boys so he isn't a damned to hell for being evil wicked homosexual.
……the the Prop 8 campaign -- after first denying it -- admitted to sending certified letters to companies that donated to "No on 8" and Equality California (one of the major funders of the No campaign) demanding that the companies provide a matching donation to Yes on 8, or they would be "outed."
ProtectMarriage.com, a group that includes Mark Jansson, a self-described member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints:
sent a certified letter this week asking companies to withdraw their support of Equality California, a nonprofit organization that is helping lead the campaign against Proposition 8.
"Make a donation of a like amount to ProtectMarriage.com which will help us correct this error," reads the letter. "Were you to elect not to donate comparably, it would be a clear indication that you are in opposition to traditional marriage. ... The names of any companies and organizations that choose not to donate in like manner to ProtectMarriage.com but have given to Equality California will be published."
Ballsy no? And verging on illegal. Unfortunately, it is just the latest in a series of lies, smears and distortions from the Prop 8 campaign and in particular the Mormon Church.
It is interesting that Fred Karger cannot fathom volunteers paying for their own signs and bus tickets. I think he would also be surprised to learn that local parishes (called "wards") have no paid clergy, either. Everyone you see at church is a volunteer. It is definitely amazing, but hardly sinister.
Incidentally, the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is Thomas S. Monson--not David.
They (Mormon church) can't have their cake and eat it, too!
My name is Susan Pollak. Even though I am not a homosexual I can truly understand the homosexual communities frustration towards the Mormons and Prop 8. I was in a relationship with a Mormon. When I chose to break it off due to the the extreme domestic abuse by the father against me the Mormons preceded to take my custody rights away from me for breaking up a "Mormon family". I did nothing wrong to my child. I only took him to a doctor and the church thought I was in the wrong and took my child away from me. The Mormons teach hate and intolerance of others. I should know I have been around them for about 8 years. The Mormons in Southern Idaho and Utah are taking children away from their non-Mormon mothers and handing custody over to the Mormon fathers. So when I heard about what the Mormons were pulling with the prop 8 in California I was mad but not surprised. I am so sorry that the gay community has to deal with this cult. It is bad enough for us non-Mormon mothers. Mormons are against blacks, women, homosexuals, Jews, Mexicans, you name it. I don't know if what I wrote will mean anything to you but I just wanted you to know that I support the gay community and other causes against those who choose to be bigots and oppress minority's and those who do not fit in the Mormon mold. The Mormons and the government have no right to tell two consenting adults what they can or can't do in their own homes or lives nor tell a parent how to raise their children.
I am sorry for your difficulties. It must be difficult to be away from your child. I can help but suspect, however, that your anger is misplaced. The Mormon Church is a religious organization, not a governmental organization. Issues regarding custody of children are governmental issues, and are not within the control of religious institutions. Therefore if you lost your child, it cannot be because the Mormons took your child from you. It is because a government agency or court of law ruled that it should be so.
I also must take issue with your characterization of Mormons as bigots, racial or otherwise. The Mormon Church itself has clearly spoken out against such arbitrary hatred, stating that no person harboring hatred against others for their race, gender or other such characteristics can consider himself or herself a true disciple of Jesus Christ. I imagine that there are individual members of the Mormon Church who are racially insensitive (the Church would not have made such a statement if there weren't), but my experience is that they are certainly in the minority.
I also want to clarify that neither the government, nor the Mormon Church, nor any other proponent of Proposition 8 purport to "tell two consenting adults what they can do in their own homes." Proposition 8 does not speak to acts, sexual or otherwise, that happen in the home. Rather it is a movement to define marriage and protect the sanctity of the family that was carried out as a legitimate exercise of 1st Amendment rights of the Proposition's proponents.
Finally, if it hasn't already been done, I want to point out that the allegations made in this claim are incorrect: http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/comment...