This is ridiculous! I hope our congressmen and women get a hold of this news! This should be a pre-condition of their bailout not to do this sort of thing.
Grrrowler
· 1 year ago
I got the same thing from Discover several months ago. My rate was going from 8% to about 23%. When I called to ask why I was told that it was changing on all accounts, regardless of status and that I could send them a certified letter saying I wanted my account closed, which would then allow me to pay off the balance at the old rate. I did exactly that, but paid off the balance in full. Instead of them making extra money on me they lost all the interest they would have made. Their loss...
TomJoad
· 1 year ago
Just wondering...if you COULD pay it off in full, why didn't you anyway (sounds like you were planning on stretching it out, but paid in full to deny them the interest)?
I mean, your savings are getting what? like 1% or something, and the money you owe on the card is taking 8% even at the "good" rate...so how come? Is there something I miss on this?
Grrrowler
· 1 year ago
The money was sitting elsewhere doing better (or close) the interest I was paying. Remember I said "a few months ago"...? It was before the current meltdown.
TomJoad
· 1 year ago
It's totally up to you of course...but generally, it reall is like a wealth leak to have any savings even while also having a balance that had credit card rates, which used to be called usery, and pay them off slowly.
You sound like it was a calculated loss, you figured for some reason it was worth it, but I mention this when I can because I was pretty old before I heard some expert mention that. It helped. If anyone else reading hadn't thought this way it might be a good thing to see...that's the only reason I mention it. Wish I had read it years before I did.
But I came from a time where you save up for big ticket items, and that is soon to be criminalized behaviour I am sure... I use credit for short term loans, pay it off immidiately. They hate me (I LOVE that) and if I can't pay it off...I just don't buy it.
Udit
· 1 year ago
I'm trying to understand why this is "Amit's" fault or even why his name is relevant, other than that it's foreign sounding.
tas
· 1 year ago
"Amit's" name is relevant because they are using a foreign call center to handle these calls. they are cutting American jobs and transferring these jobs to foreign countries where the people read from a script only and cannot provide any customer service. And we are giving them 360Billion dollars to do this to us.
Jeanee
· 1 year ago
Again, how is this related to "Amit"? How 'bout "Citibank"?
JRRice
· 1 year ago
I agree. I hate having to go through a script. It's maddening. Especially when they do the page-turning stall after each answer "Okay..."
tbhull
· 1 year ago
How do you know whether Amit is not an American working in America?
Jennifer
· 1 year ago
Those dirty, dirty, rotten swine. What about a nice demonstration in front of their head office, cutting up thousands of their credit cards? I think that might be fun.
tas
· 1 year ago
Cancel the card. I hope they choke on their stupid moves and people remember what they did to them when the "current financial situation" improves.
Grrrowler
· 1 year ago
Don't cancel the card. If you can get it to a zero balance, then do, but leave the account active and don't use it. It costs these companies money to maintain an account and if they're not making interest it's a money-loser for them, even if it's only a few dollars a month. But, make their greed cost them money.
Clyde Wildes
· 1 year ago
AMEX just put a limit on my regular AMEX Platinum account without any input. I have been an AMEX customer for 29 years and never had a late payment. They questioned my ability to pay for a large purchase should I make one even though I have a credit score in the mid 700s. This was the company that used to advertise "no preset spending limit". I cancelled the card.
MNUSA
· 1 year ago
I heard a caller on MPR a couple of days ago saying Citibank had raised his interest rate from 12.99% to 18.99%. I guess the banks are going to get our dollars through the government and also by usury. This is not going to help the economy. Who is going to buy anything they can't pay off right away at those rates? Interest rates are as low as they're going to get. I think our "public officials" should put in a clause about usury when we hand them their billions in bail out money.
tardigrade
· 1 year ago
May I suggest..... to set your sights on paying that baby off... and IF you use that card, pay it off monthly... Card companies HATE you for doing that and may even lower your credit score... But that is the deal. They get you coming and going. So, if you can... try to live as frugally as you can until you are free of the cards - ALL of them. It's a tough way to go but you CAN do it. For Citi to make good customers pay for their managerial mistakes is so typical.
enpassant
· 1 year ago
H.R. 5244, It's the credit card holders "bill of rights" and it easily passed the House of Representatives (along partisan lines) just days before the $700 billion dollar bank bail out. The Bush administration opposed it (big surprise, I know).
Does anybody know exactly what happened on this thing? Did it die in Senate session? How come we don't hear more about this bill? We're expected to bailout the corrupt, incompetent banking industry and we don't even get a few crumbs. Man this pisses me off.
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 1 year ago
oops
guerrilla scholar
· 1 year ago
I got one of these letters, too. My rate is going from prime + 4.99 to 18.99 percent. Fortunately, I don't have much on the card, so I'm going to pay it off, and then never use that card again. I'm not going to cancel it because that can ding your credit score. But having a card and not using it does nothing to my score, and it frustrates the hell out of Citi.
We have long ago crossed into the realm where personal finance should be treated as if it were a martial art.
KarenMrsLloydRichards
· 1 year ago
Bushonomics (in 7 words): Privatize the profits; collectivize the losses, baby!
Lisaleesa
· 1 year ago
I rec'd 1 about 4 mths ago from Bank of America and then 1 from Chase about 1 mth ago. The reasoning I was given was that, "they had reviewed my account and it was up to their discretion." I was blown away, when it happened the first time, but after talking to lots of friends, found out it had happened to many of them as well; so the second time was not a huge shock. I was also told that I could refuse the increase and keep my current rate, as long as I did not use my card again, if so, the rate went to the higher rate. I had been a customer of Bank of America since they bought up my account from Wachovia. I opened the account so long ago, I cannot even remember how long I was a customer, but it was roughly 15 years. With Chase, I have been their customer since 1996. In all that time, I was never late on a payment, and usually paid more than the minimum balance. When things were good, I typically paid off my balances. However, none of that matters to the companies and certainly not to the "customer satisfaction agents" you speak to that begin the conversation w/ "How many I offer you excellent service today?" In surveying my friends that ran across the same situation, the only name that never came up was Capital One. Of course that may only mean I have not talked to the right person yet. These people are worse than loan sharks and should all be thrown in jail. At least w/ a loan shark your rate stays the same if you pay on time to the agreed terms.
LLDEM
· 1 year ago
I have found that a carefully worded letter to the CEO of the company (this information can be found at any library) usually gets results. Believe it or not, if you take the time to sit down with pen and paper, they will get your letter. And since you took the time to contact them in person, they usually pay attention. This has worked for me from Hotels, to Cable TV companies and beyond. These folks still want your money, and they'll find a way to make you happy. Try it, you have nothing to lose.
MaudGonne
· 1 year ago
The Citi sucks. Is it true that your credit rating is affected when you dump a credit card??? It is VERY hard to dump a citibank credit card, or get an IRA away from them. I wish this lousey bank had been "allowed " to fail.
lisainWA
· 1 year ago
I had a credit card that I've had for several years. Mostly, I don't carry a balance on it and I've always paid it on time. I got a letter saying after a review of my credit, they are closing my account. My credit is slightly above average. This was a first for me.
TomJoad
· 1 year ago
Mumbai is the news right now. Any of you all gotten new US passports recently? Guess what. They targeted american and english guests in the hotel.
Guess what the new passports have in them? A chip, one that a "reader" can bounce a signal off of and pick up information in it. It wouldn't take much sophistication to make a wand that could route out people holding US passports in a crowd, for that matter is isn't science fiction either to think of IED's that trigger on US passports getting near them.
What kind of meatheads are running things?
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
My Star Trek Credit Card through MBNA then Chase now Bank of America went from some 14% up to 20%. I never use it, but keep it because it has accumulated a 35k limit (you know, for a world ending emergency).
Fuck you Bank of America- I pay all my CCs on time. Why take out your problems on me?
The only CC I use (when I absolutely must) is my Credit Union Visa that will hold steady at 13%. Not exactly rock bottom, but acceptable.
TomJoad
· 1 year ago
If we had a world ending (or even not so drastic, but an economic meltdown which isn't that far-fetched) you won't get a dime out of that card. It would be better to take some cash and hid it well.
When the banks in Iceland were failing (two...) the first thing that happened, nobody could get any money out of the ATM's. Needless to say, credit cards weren't all that useful either I am betting.
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
I meant my world (catastrophic hospitalization, car repair, etc.). I have also used it as an advance on a line of home equity. We bought a bunch of building material, then paid off the whole thing when the real line of equity cam through. -- Adam D. Sperry, C.A.S. N. Hollywood, CA, USA 818 982 8105
TomJoad
· 1 year ago
Adam, I think you didn't mean to include your sig in the comments section! It's possible you saw my reply as an email, and your reply to me ended up here at Americablog, but it is showing your address, telephone, so you might want to go over to Americablog and edit or delete!
Regards!
NYCRaf
· 1 year ago
Just curious, did you get that card just for the Star Trek part of it? I was tempted to get a New York Mets Citibank card for just that reason.
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
When I went to the Star Trek Experience in Las Vegas a couple of years a go, the deal was that I would get a free print of me composited into cast picture of my choice if I signed up for the credit card.
I though that was a fair trade.
Eventually that card got combined with other MBNA cards I had acquired over the years. Then MBNA was bought up by Chase, and Chase was bought up by BoA. All that time they maintained the Star Trek imprint (even the bills have a special layout incorporating the Star Trek brand). Apart from the picture on the card, there is nothing else special about it. You can probably achieve about the same thing with Capitol One's new line of self-designed cards.
Adam -- Adam D. Sperry, C.A.S. N. Hollywood, CA, USA 818 982 8105
tbhull
· 1 year ago
That is just the start of it. Remember, the fed just dished out $800,000,000,000 to buy up bad car loans, student loans and credit card accounts from the banks. One approach would be to forgive all of this unsecured debt. Do not count on that.
Rather, the next step is the government will start to collect this unsecured delinquent debt probably much iun the same way it collects taxes. Expect changes in the Bankrutpcy code to protect and prioritize this new government debt. Those delinquent instead of being just deadbeats will be unpatriotic and debtors' prisons are not out of the question as the legal landscape changes.
Pope Buck I
· 1 year ago
If it makes you feel any better, Careyana, you're not alone. Citibank just announced that they're laying off 53,000 workers, the biggest mass firing in American corporate history. But thank God the executives' bonuses will remain intact!
If I were their CEO, I'd get a really good bodyguard, because he just "disgruntled" a hell of a lot of people.
sherifffruitfly
· 1 year ago
Heh. And they're counting on Americans' atrocious spending habits to leave them with no choice.
They're truly making us an offer we can't refuse.
I gotta admit - extremely well-played by the credit industry. They get a brazillion dollars of our tax money. They don't lend it OUT, and they double the charges on existing customers. I'm familiar with arbitrage, but this is ridiculous. About as economically evil as bushco is politically evil - but well-played nevertheless.
NYCRaf
· 1 year ago
I take pleasure, after being in debt to these jackals for years, in paying off my Credit Card balances in full. After making mistakes that I've made up for, I take pleasure in the fact that they're no longer making any money off of me. Citi customer for 10 years and paying monthly balances in full for the last 4.
lucky hussein
· 1 year ago
Ohh, yes. we'll be paying. and paying. and paying... imo, this is just the beginning. Wait until the dollar tanks and inflation skyrockets. We're just printing $ now..
Nosybear
· 1 year ago
Haven't had any problems there.... In fact, I'm still getting those great offers thrown at me in spite of the fact that I did the unsolicited credit check blocking some time back. Of course, once they "have" you, they can dork around with the interest rates, fees and so forth. Best defense against them: Dont' carry a balance! My creditors can change the interest rate all they want and all it will do is result in them receiving the shards of my credit card in the mail. The answer is not to complain about credit card company practices but to make them work for you by loaning you free money for a month.
Or, as with the Best Buy offer they currently have, no interest for 18 months! That means I can buy a lot of computer now, pay it off monthly and with depreciated dollars. That's the way to use credit card companies, to provide you free money rather than to float you a usurious loan.
stevetalbert
· 1 year ago
Be aware that some companies close an account that hasn't been used for a bit... so once you pay off your balance, make sure you do a small charge every month or so to keep it active.
JoxerXJT
· 1 year ago
I got the same letter from Citi last week, though I think they screwed up. The letter said my rate was increasing to 15.99%, effective the next billing cycle. However, when I checked my last statement, it showed my APR was at 16.99%, so they actually lowered my rate even though the form letter said it was increasing. I just checked my account online and it does indeed reflect a new rate of 15.99%.
Greedy and stupid scum.
LLDEM is right, though, if you write a letter to the right person, it usually gets taken care of rather quickly. Citi tried to jack my rate over the summer and I wrote them expressing my extreme displeasure that they would do that to a longtime (OK, 6+ years) customer with good credit and never late payments. They upgraded my card to platinum and cut my old rate by about 12 percentage points. Not sayign that woudl necessarily work in this case, but it's worth a try.
I plan to pay off all my accounts and let them rot. Let the megabanks pay on them for once.
paulbe
· 1 year ago
It used to be called 'Looting".
jurassicpork
· 1 year ago
Well, I know what I'll be grateful at dinner tomorrow. Thank you, Congress, for the 2005 Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005!
Happy Turkey Day and happy holidays to everyone from JP in Pottersville.
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
3) Ann Coulter: Ncdsofh fjiggjgkm fhtgj vma! ----
okay, now THAT is fucking hilarious!!! LMAO!
Barrie
· 1 year ago
I received a similar letter from Blue from American Express. I too am a good customer, always pay on time and at least double the minimum payment. Informed me rate change from 9.99% to 12.99% for purchases and from 19.49% to 22.49% for cash advance.
KerrynowCampau
· 1 year ago
I got that notice the other day, too. I never use the piece of sh*t card so it doesn't matter but I think I will cancel it anyway.
Snarki, child of Loki
· 1 year ago
If you're going to cancel a card, do it with panache.
Cut a piece from the card and tape it to your letter...then for the letter itself, clip letters from newspapers and past them on a sheet of paper, like a ransom note:
"I HaVE yOuR CArd! THe aCcoUNt nUmbER is #####. HeRE is JuST a PaRT oF It aS pROof! cHaNGe thE teRMs oR I wILl cuT uP thE REst! ..."
Cojonudo
· 1 year ago
Same here...never late, but rates are going up with Citi & Bank of America, Advanta....get as much tax payer money as you can and then hose the tax payer. Nice. The banks have it coming so freakin' bad....Karma is a bitch.
JRRice
· 1 year ago
Actually, this happened to me a couple of months ago. In fact right after the WAMU failure.
Yes, it was a WAMU card.
I pay all of my bills online and since I am actively paying down my cc debt, I pay over the minimum twice a month. I record not only my balance and what I'm paying but the amount of finance charges. So this one particular month I had gotten some extra money so altogether I had paid towards that card $300. Somehow my finance charges were higher this month than the previous month. So needless to say that got my attention.
After about 3 calls to the credit card company (and yes, the guys over in India are really sweet but they are effectively robots since they only react by reading instead of working with you) I still didn't have an reasonable explanation as to why my rate went from 21.00% to 29.99%. Yes, to 30%. Finally I got to a supervisor who informed me that there was a letter that went out a few months prior announcing the interest rate change, and it was more or less across the board. Basically as an invitation to cancel the account. Which I did. But mind you, there was a window of time in which the customer could call and cancel the open credit line, reverting the interest rate back to what it was and then just do a paydown. If they didn't call within that time, the 30% interest rate would stick and you would be forced to pay all of that until your balance was gone. Luckily I was within that window.
At the time I was so incensed, especially since WAMU had just failed and that 18-day CEO was getting a golden parachute anyway. So basically, even though I was a good customer, they raised my rates in order to pay for their failure.
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
at a time in our history when unemployment is spiking, as well as food stamp usage...
someone should point out to the credit industry and banking industry that the phrase "you can't get blood from a stone" isn't just rhetoric.
put it this way, if someone gets to the point where some sort of charges were brought against me for failing to pay my bills? jail offers three square meals a day, and a lot of them have job training programs.
I'm seriously starting to consider it a vacation.
Older_Wiser
· 1 year ago
Mumbai (the old Bombay) still under attack, targeting Americans and Brits. The "Al Qaeda" group has taken over the Taj Hotel, holding hostages. 78 people dead, and 200 injured already. Following this on MSNBC.
P.S. I no longer have any credit cards. Don't care. Pay cash for everything.
Rufus
· 1 year ago
Wonder if any members of the House or Senate get these interest increase letters? Why do I think they aren't?
Older_Wiser
· 1 year ago
Another OT, but stay out of SC...for your own safety. The state is having the first no-tax gun sales Friday and Sat. Godalmighty, morons with guns.
Wow double whammy. Apr rate going to double and we are bailout them out. I don't get it. You are bailing them out with your tax dollars. Something isn't right with this picture. What can be done.
triple7s
· 1 year ago
Just curious about this, some of you might know. I have heard there will be some serious store closings and lay-offs after Xmas. One of the malls around here is not taking ANY GIFT CARDS for Xmas shopping. They are concerned about getting their money from the stores and banks that might not be around soon after years end.
Nylund
· 1 year ago
I moved and forgot to give Citi my new phone number. My old housemates tell me that Citi is desperately trying to get a hold of me, calling numerous times a day, but its always an automated thing where I'd have to type in my account number so they can't tell me why I am being called. There is no reason for them to be trying to hard as I've done nothing to warrant a call (I too am a great customer). I finally called them myself today and the southern lady I spoke to looked at my account, saw nothing odd, and couldn't tell me why Citi has been calling so much. But I am definitely sensing some shenanigans.
An_American_Karol
· 1 year ago
I got a strange call from my bank yesterday. It called to see if I was happy with the service I get, and if I had any questions in regard to my accounts. I found that very odd.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
sounds like phishing
gary
· 1 year ago
Call Citibank and tell them to opt out and cancel. That is what I did, they immediately told me that they would lower my interest rate to prime plus 3 which equates to 7.99 percent. The card that I had was at 11.5 percent. I told them it is pathetic that they are penalizing people for their screwups. the customer rep agreed with me 100 percent.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Well my fellow friends I hope you all enjoy your dinner tommorrow. God only knows what will happen at christmas. I pray we all are here and can keep our humor. Am fat at least I can live off of it for a couple of weeks. Haaaaaahaaaaaaa Have fun. Lets all eat and be merry.
Marie
· 1 year ago
A friend told me just today that this happened to him. Long-time client, no late payments, usually pays the balance, but in case he should make a partial payment, his balance would now be charged 19%. Didn't these credit card banks just get a huge influx of money -- so now they will step on the necks of the card owners?
TSM
· 1 year ago
I got the same notice in my last statement and I've been a Citibank member for 14 years. I've never been late on a payment and pay off the balance of my card whenever possible.
So much for customer loyalty.
Ben Dover
· 1 year ago
I'm not trying to be snarky or anything, but when BushCo was appointed POTUS it scared the hell out of me. We went on a strict, and I mean strict, budget. We paid off all credit cards and closed the accounts with the exception of one card, it is only used enough just to keep the account active. We both worked two and sometimes three jobs in order to pay off vehicles and we were able to pay off the house within six years time. Now, we pay cash for everything and have found that we don't feel deprived or as if we're missing out on anything if we can't have it right-this-very-minute. Now with all this financial destruction we're witnessing, we're sitting fairly well and I expect that (barring outright national meltdown) we'll be able to ride this out mostly unscathed. We stash all the cash we can in the local credit union and could sit out about 18-24 months before we would have to begin to consider selling or moving or whatever. And as much as I absolutely despise BushCo, I will give him credit for kicking my ass into gear and preparing for the future. It wasn't easy, in fact it was damn hard, but I knew BushCo would destroy the economy and we were waaaaay to old to have to plan on living on the streets.
Be Smart, Folks
· 1 year ago
Important correction: You are NOT a "good customer" in the eyes of a credit card issuer if you do not make late payments and pay "more than the minimum." A good customer in their eyes is someone who pays as much interest and as many fees as possible. A good customer is someone who spends more than he or she can actually afford and is constantly having to pay interest and fees. They call customers who always pay their entire balance in full, and are never late -- and I am one of these customers -- "deadbeats" (seriously!). Check out PBS Frontline's "The Secret Life of Credit Cards" (or something like it) online, and/or the documentary movie "Maxed Out."
Per TSM's comment - If you've never been late on a payment, and "pay off the balance of my card whenever possible," that is NOT loyalty, that's being a deadbeat (in their eyes). Think about it!!!!!
It's an upside down world with credit cards: They do NOT want you to be diligent. You are NOT doing them any favor by diligently paying on time and/or in full.
I know that racking up credit card interest is maybe unavoidable for some, in some situations, but it really is a fool's game -- especially now.
Good advice: (1) Read and/or listen to Suze Orman and/or Andrew Tobias. (2) Pay your CC balance in full -- control your spending and budget yourself to make that possible. (3) Never be late. (4) It helps to be super-organized to make (2) and (3) possible.
KerrynowCampau
· 1 year ago
I had heard about what credit card companies consider "deadbeats" and have relished the label ever since.
How funny to know I cost them money!!!
And what great incentive to pay off balances!
KyCole
· 1 year ago
I got that letter too- mine is going up to almost 19%. It really irked me that I got the notice the day after my tax dollars went to their bailout. I will be cancelling as well.
ha ha ha
· 1 year ago
We have already bailed out citi. Stop paying your bills. If you pay taxes you have already paid.
MaudGonne
· 1 year ago
Some more who got away with it.................
The subprime lending industry was starting to buckle under the weight of bad loans in November 2006, when executives at Irvine-based New Century Financial Corp. held a conference call to release their latest earnings. Loan volume was down and defaults were up, the earnings report showed, and in recent weeks at least five stock analysts had downgraded the company's shares. Moreover, four executives had sold nearly $20 million in stock in the last four months, six times as much as they had sold over the previous 12 months. That led one analyst to ask whether there was anything investors should know.
"It's just part of their personal financial diversification plan," Chief Executive Brad A. Morrice said in response to the question during the Nov. 2 earnings call. Those executive stock sales, however, have emerged as a central element in the Justice Department's criminal investigation of New Century, according to a person familiar with the inquiry who was not authorized to speak publicly. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-newcent26...
MikeinSanJo
· 1 year ago
I got that letter too... 'cept mine is jumping from 9.99% to 24.99%.
I opted out. I'll have to continue to make payments according to my original agreement.
The story I got from the Customer "Service" guy was that certain types of cards were selected and the cardholders are being punished so Citi Corp execs can continue to buy their wives Bentleys and their mistresses fake tits.
Maybe we can file a class-action lawsuit...? Does anyone know? It's bullshit that Citi can change the terms of their agreement with us, but we don't have the same prerogative.
I know we signed an agreement, but I saw something on TV today about the mother who goaded the teenager into suicide through her MySpace or FaceBook page. They accepted the mother's defense that she didn't read the fine print.
If that gets this bitch off, certainly it should get us out of a credit card bill. The interest I've paid over the years has FAR exceeded the value of everything I have ever charged on that card.
MikeinSanJo
· 1 year ago
Seems like they called this USURY in the Bible - and it was a sin.
Oh, that's right. Xtians only read the Bible for the bits on men who lay with men.
peter
· 1 year ago
I also received the letter after having Citibank account for over a dozen years. Rate raised from 9.9% to 23.9%.
mack
· 1 year ago
John, mine was bumped to 28.99%. I called and they lowered it back to the original percentage rate, AND gave me an interest charge refund.
Steve
· 1 year ago
I received the same letter last Friday - I sent them an email and got the same response....my response to them was that I had a Bank of America card that I would now exclusively use - and I would leave CITI open but not ever use it again (don't want my FICO score to suffer because of account closure). I am also an exemplary customer and have never missed a payment and always either pay the balance or much more than minimum.
ed weekly
· 1 year ago
I also got a loan shark letter from Citibank today. They raised my rate from 16.99 to 19.99! I haven't even used their damn VISA card in years. All these goddam companies like Macy's, Sears, Amazon, etc. are always pushing these credit cards and then praying that you are late with you payments so they reem the hell out. Well, I'm going to tell these crooks to cancel this damn Citibank card today!
Aminator
· 1 year ago
My Citicard got upped to 16.99 yesterday. But my balance is on a special offer that's supposed to be fixed until it's paid off. Can they change that?
mgaedeke
· 1 year ago
Likewise with me - I've been a 25+ year "member" of American Express - I always paid my bills in time, and over the years have generated LOTS of commission revenue for AX, in addition to paying interest on the occasional not-100%-settled bill... I was fed the exact same reason :due to the economic times"
Isn't AMEX on the list of bailout recipients? Is this therefore "double-dipping"?
I wonder...
LITU
· 1 year ago
Me, too, but I called Citi and CLOSED MY ACCOUNT! Screw 'em. I don't need a 30k credit limit anyway.
LITU
· 1 year ago
If Congress truly wanted to stimulate the economy, it would enact legislation to limit credit card interest.
careyana
· 1 year ago
Okay as the originater I do have a humorous anecdote to go along with this story:
When I spoke to Amit and asked him to opt me out and cancel, they offered me a 0% balance on any cashout of my remaining balance until July 1. So I asked for $5k which we had planned to use anyway and then pay it all off. Dirtbags.
GregNewYork
· 1 year ago
I experienced the exact scenerio with Citibank.
My last credit card bill I noticed they jacked me up to 20.59%
I've been a customer with them for over 20 years.... my credit score is over 780 and I haven't been late with a payment in over 10 years.
Yet they jacked my rate up with no notice. After calling them they lowered down to 9.9 plus libor which evened it out at around 14.9 percent.
I sold a few securitites off and depo'd the check today and am paying off my balance in full in a couple of weeks when the bill comes in and am NEVER USING MY CITI MASTERCARD AGAIN.
But I have to ad, when I did call, I said 'what did I do other than PAY MY BILLS ON TIME FOR THE LAST DECADE that gives me the privilage to have my rates hiked to a rate that a loan shark I once knew charged' The Citi Rep was silent and then went on to 'see what can be done'.
Brian
· 1 year ago
It is not only interest rates on credit cards but other fees as well. I have what they call a "Checking Plus" account. It is basically overdraft protection; up until the beginning of November, they would automatically transfer money from the Checking Plus to my checking if I need to cover an overdraft for free. Now, it costs $10 per transfer plus interest on whatever is transferred to my checking account. After the holidays, I am getting a new bank.
cbukszpan
· 1 year ago
I got the same letter and called them today to "opt out." It is outrageous that we as taxpayers are now bailing them out twice - once through the government's plan and then again through an increase in our APR. It's ridiculous.
David Liao
· 1 year ago
Whoa there.
Your credit card company is probably within its legal right to play with APR rights at whim. This fact is part of the fine print, and was also made available as very public knowledge in a PBS Frontline episode describing the origin of the credit card industry in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.
A credit card is not a contract by the credit card company to provide an APR forever. Usually (I know of no exceptions) the credit card is an agreement to provide credit at a stated APR basically only for now. You should never rely on a credit card with the assumption that its APR will not fluctuate. This is one reason it's dangerous to use credit card for credit--you cannot be sure how much interest it will cost you.
In a way I can understand that seeing a surprising rate change during a bad economy feels like being punished for "other" people's poor behavior, but at the same time, you had the opportunity to read the credit card agreement explaining that your credit card rate could be changed at a whim.
Everyone and every business is interdependent, even people who have no debt. When you signed up for your credit card, you agreed to do business with a company doing business with other people and possibly itself leveraged, which meant you agreed to expose yourself to indirect consequences of other people's financial collapse.
I guess part of the problem described in this blog is that we are talking about culture shock: some customers expect a mixture of decency and enlightened pragmatic selfishness afford some long-term wisdom to business practices, but some businesses avoid business practices only when forced by law, and even then sometimes only with threats of lawsuit. When the economy tanks people get desperate and panic. Decency and wisdom evaporate. This is why we have written contracts because paper remembers our agreements better than good intentions.
You can certainly call the companies and pester the telephone receptionists. Taking your business elsewhere might be more effective, and if you really want to do something about fluctuating credit card APRs, maybe you can start a credit card company that offers contracts guaranteeing APRs for 5- or 10-year terms, say.
Note: I am aware that the following statement is obvious and unhelpful to many people at this point, but the credit card should not be used for credit. The reason I use a credit card is to avoid having a debit card. When the debit card is stolen, the fraudulent charges make inaccessible disputed portions of your checking account. When a credit card is stolen, the disputed charges live outside your checking account, in the financial "purgatory" of your credit card balance.
Summary: Yes, the credit card is dangerous; I thought people knew this. My parents taught me to avoid borrowing. My high school civics teacher warned us about credit cards. Interest is murder, buy things outright and pay down principal aggressively if borrowing is necessary. The ability for credit card companies to change APRs on a whim is part of the legal text you agreed to when you signed up for your card, and it was even broadcast on PBS.
While I believe people should be responsible for reading their own contracts and declining contracts they cannot understand, I also understand that in reality people expect safety labels on products and services that are obviously dangerous. I don't think this is good, but given that it seems to be reality, I don't mind having some government-approved icon to distinguish contracts offering changeable APRs from contracts guaranteeing fixed APRs for a number of years so that people can be more judicious about the credit cards they choose and about the way they use their cards. I find it ridiculous to consider using government as a substitute for literacy, but if it's necessary I might prefer to have warning labels to prevent financially dangerous choices made in aggregate by the American public. I imagine such leveraging can bring down the economy at much greater indirect cost to me than simply spending money on a committee or bureau to oversee financial safety labeling.
Best, David Liao PhD Candidate Department of Physics Princeton University, Princeton, NJ
Elmo Buzz
· 1 year ago
Good Luck on that PhD. I hope you understand physics, if you graduate, better than you do the law.
David Liao
· 1 year ago
Again, I wrote that I would be supportive of making the fact that credit card companies can change APRs at whim obvious through icons. I would be supportive of mandating large-print notices by law.
At the same time, I'm going to give a lot of attitude about spending government resources to advertise features of legal contracts that people can read before signing up for credit cards.
If I were a lawmaker, you would get liberal leaning policies, but the style of rhetoric might not be pleasant. Substance and form both matter, but I think substance matters more.
If you look around the other posts I've placed on this website, you'll notice that a lot of them are bitter.
My great grandfather was shot by Communists in mainland China. My mother was told to be politically silent or else disappear under Chiang-Kai Shek's dictatorship. My grandfather did not eat well. My mother's family would regularly scrub down the house after typhoon floods. My father's family still keeps the tub full of water as a holdover from the days when running water was not available 24hrs/day. My father worked really hard to have an opportunity at being an American. But life here is dangerous too. My house was broken into twice--once while I was home alone. I worked harder than most of my peers at college, loosing 10 entire nights of sleep, with many more partial nights, in the first 2 years alone. I tore a ligament slipping on slick pavement and it hurt like hell. Here at Princeton I ran into bad luck with postdocs who created an unsafe laboratory atmosphere (physically unsafe) and ended up with a 100-hour generals project that turned into 800 hours, many of those hours spent over 2 weeks during several "36-hour days." When I visited California in September, I talked to 30 members of the congregation where I was raised Evangelical Christian to explain to them, being a gay atheist, why they should vote No on Prop 8. And I entertained their complaints that gay marriage would lead to incest and bestiality and their dismissal out of hand that my sexual orientation could be in any way innate.
I'm liberal. I support the ACLU, and I voted for Obama. I think it's wise to work through government to prevent destructive situations, BUT having gone through these experiences and knowing stories from my friends and family of great suffering that makes my story a walk in the park, I also have a hard time feeling emotional charity when people complain about credit card APR fluctuations that should not be surprises if they have read their credit card contracts or have watched a PBS Frontline special about credit cards.
Happy Thanksgiving, David Liao PhD Candidate Department of Physics Princeton University, Princeton, NJ
Reasons To Be Cheerful, Part 3
· 1 year ago
Heartless, cold, calculating, not living in the real world. Get a grip!
careyana
· 12 months ago
Uh yes, I'm sure everyone who has a credit card is WELL aware of this wording in the 'contract' for the credit cards. That is not the issue. One or two percentage points, sure, I can believe that. But inflating the APR almost 100%? That's a little ridiculous, especially when my husband has a card from the same company and he has NOT received the letter - in fact, his interest rate has been DECREASING - it started at 18.24% to it's current 13.9. Did I mention his is also the AAdvantage card while my own was just that, a credit card?
I'm very much a stickler for reading all the 'fine print' no matter if it's for a mortgage or renting tools at Home Depot so know all the facts before you try to make someone send stupid.
Good luck on the PhD since you have no hopes in social commentary.
David Liao
· 12 months ago
(Begin excerpt from preceding comment) Uh yes, I'm sure everyone who has a credit card is WELL aware of this wording in the 'contract' for the credit cards. That is not the issue. One or two percentage points, sure, I can believe that. But inflating the APR almost 100%? That's a little ridiculous, (End excerpt from preceding comment).
Yes, I agree that (1) not reading the literal words of the contract is distinct from (2) expecting some semblance of decency in business practices. I think of the two issues as one issue because from my experience (partial summary in one of the comments I posted somewhere deeper in this thread--P.S. we've had identity theft twice in the family in a few years) my distrust for people is very automatic, automatic to the point that I believe a lot of the worst case scenarios permitted by the limits of written contracts to be likely. If businesses barely satisfy their legal obligations, I'm not that surprised, especially when the economy tanks and panic prevails. I've seen people violate written agreements and policies on multiple occasions, so the occasions that people do honor their contracts letter, even if not in spirit, my displeasure is lukewarm and my surprise is withheld. If someone goes beyond a contract to do well, I am very impressed, and I say so. ANYWAYS, I've been assuming that many people who read contracts do so because they've been burned and expect to be burned again--I expect that they read contracts to find out not (a) whether they will get burned but (b) in which ways they could be burned legally. From this discussion it is clear that I read contracts with a social context that is distinct from the interpretations that many other commenters use. I guess that's fortunate. It means that most people have had enough positive experiences to expect decent business practices.
Of course, I don't _like_ indecent business practice, and I've learned to use contracts as a tool for decency. I try to negotiate contracts that give me room to impress. I haggled for something recently from a foreign researcher who spoke poor English, and I negotiated to a low price. When I gave him the check I added a tip beyond the price to which we had agreed, and I made him sign an agreement with only a few terms: I paid him, he gave me the item, and the item was sold "AS IS." I don't think he knew enough about American law to know to insist on having a contract with those words, but I gave it to him nonetheless.
(Excerpt from preceding comment): I'm very much a stickler for reading all the 'fine print' no matter if it's for a mortgage or renting tools at Home Depot so know all the facts before you try to make someone send stupid. (End excerpt) Yes, I agree I don't like it when people automatically assume that I'm stupid or try to argue that I am. I could try to weasel out of this complaint by saying that I didn't mean to call someone stupid with conversation insufficient to prevent prejudice, but I don't think honestly respect the excuse of not intending harm. Interpersonal respect is very important, so I think wisdom requires me to guard actively against causing even accidental harm, not merely to be free of deliberate malice. I have been offensive in this thread by forgetting this, sorry.
(Begin excerpt from one of the comments elsewhere in this thread by "Reasons To Be Cheerful, Part 3") Heartless, cold, calculating, not living in the real world. Get a grip! (End excerpt) Agreed. That's why I'm in graduate school. Social interaction is difficult and exhausting for me to do on an intuitive level. I really do have to calculate analytically in order to interact, especially regarding business. No, seriously, it's almost as though it were a mental disorder--but it seems really normal around here.
(Begin excerpt from preceding comment) Good luck on the PhD since you have no hopes in social commentary. (End excerpt)
I can honestly believe this statement, but I also have to say that I did apologize for "mak[ing] someone sound stupid" by prejudice, so I would at least invite people to read what I said to my estranged church when when I felt that injustice required social commentary (http://art.magneticcarpet.com/node/76). I've also invested a lot of control during a long discussion with a conservative Evangelical regarding my being gay, and that's really exhausting to do in the context of a debate regarding the dignity or reality of a fundamental aspect of one's existence (http://art.magneticcarpet.com/node/72)--I admit I get abrasive toward the end.
Again, I apologize for assuming in haste that people were stupid. That doesn't oblige anyone to retract statements regarding my social commentary or its delivery, but I would not mind if people would consider looking at those links I provided before continuing to believe that my comments are worthless (technically no one said my comments were absolutely worthless, but I also did not technically say that anyone was stupid. These technicalities do not change the fact that reasonable interpretation on both sides of this conversation could find the _gist_ of the personal comments from the other side offensive).
Happy Thanksgiving for what that's worth
sanfermin
· 1 year ago
it's funny that everyone wants congress to restrict the CEO compensation of the bailed out companies... what we really should be restricting is their ability to lobby congress -- then maybe true credit card reform would pass.
and unrelated story --- had a 0% offer from Fleet bank (around 2000), bought a computer with the intention of paying it off monthly with no interest. 6 months into the contract Fleet says that "market conditions" changed and they needed to increase my interest rate from 0% to 15% as Helicopter Ben at the fed was raising interest rates. I complained that since they were a bank- it was their job to manage their interest rate risk - not mine. They didn't agree, I paid off the balance and I cancelled the card. F*** Them!
JuliannK
· 1 year ago
Canceling credit cards will negatively affect your credit score. Keep this in mind.
Asterix
· 1 year ago
My gut feeling is when the credit card defaults start hitting, they'll make the subprime fiasco look penny-ante.
Which is why Joe Biden and his friends made sure credit card debt wasn't eligible for bankruptcy. They knew this was coming.
Asterix
· 1 year ago
Which, I think is what the credit card issuers are up to. They're raising the interest rates not to generate cash, but to scare away the people who are likely to default.
If you're a "deadbeat"--you pay off your balance every month--you really don't care what the interest rate is--it could be 299.99% percent and the effect is null as far as you're concerned. But if you carry a balance, you're going to be motivated to get out from under the debt (or find someone else to take it at a lower rate).
I think that this has been in the works for some time, since HELOC loans have pretty much become dinosaurs.
The Biden "reform" may actually backfire. Since the terms are so draconian, there's little reason for a borrower to try and negotiate with his lender until there's no way out. And you can't get blood from a stone.
munjoyfan
· 1 year ago
With all due respect, folks, why are you even using these credit cards? If you pay off the balance every month, the interest rate doesn't matter, because you never get charged interest. If you don't pay off the balance, you are living beyond your means, and need to make some changes in your personal budget plan. It's necessary to have a credit card, because there are some things you just can't use cash for--like an airline ticket. But as a general rule, things that are regular necessities, like groceries, gas, or a coffee shop visit, should never be paid for with plastic. To stay aware of your level of personal spending, you need to use cash. Try it for a couple of months. I think you will be amazed at the amount of control it provides you over your cash flow.
Adrienne
· 1 year ago
What they told me to do is: The increase goes into effect in January. Then I can call and ask them to reduce my APR again in February, which isn't too out of the way since I usually call them every now and again to lower it (which they DO, because I AM such a good customer).
Good luck, I know it sucks
duvetyn234
· 1 year ago
I received the same thing, except a per centage point higher. The person I talked to said "All the banks will be doing this" I opted out, better to pay off my card at 8.99% than 14.99%. It's amazing that Citibank can get a bailout at 0% or borrow at 1% but can't past that on to the card holder. I can afford to wait, they can't.
TomJoad
· 1 year ago
What ever happened to usery laws?
They make a show of different rates, but they all go the same direction...up. At what point is it illegal? 50%? 70%?
And, seing the big picture, if we all told them to "stuff it" we'd be killing our own economy. On the one hand, we have to pay them through debt and taxes (our government is borrowing or putting on THEIR (our) credit card to China all these bailouts) because of their screwups, on the other we have to keep using their cards or our retirement funds will all go down the toilet, and on the other hand (except we don't have three hands) we don't have a true free market, so we have to pay userious rates.
And apparently they haven't learned squat. When I was young I couldn't get a credit card because I didn't have any credit rating. Fair enough, but they seem to have completely lost the ability (as have banks and mortgage loan companies) to distinguish between good and bad risk customers.
It's like they have no discretionary powers anymore. Through history, people have always wanted to take out loans that they couldn't afford....but the gatekeepers were the LENDERS who checked you out and decided if you could and would honor your debt.
There is no more honor anymore.
Reasons To Be Cheerful, Part 3
· 1 year ago
I guess we should thank Joe Biden for all his water carrying for the banks, esp. the new bankruptcy law! That will always be something I can't forgive him for. I hope he does a good job as VP and he probably will, esp. since it will be Obama at the steering wheel. You know, I remember that in some states at least they voted laws putting a check on pay day loan vermin. High time these b$a$n$k$s and most of all their top brass are taught a lesson: regulate credit card rates now!
jchristy2001
· 1 year ago
Same thing happened to me on my Delta SkyMiles AMEX card. I have always paid them in full every month and presently have a zero balance...so I will keep the card, not use it and let them spend $$ maintaining my account. What they are doing is highway robbery. They are getting money from the govt. (which is our tax dollars) and then they want even more. Where does it end?
Ken Robinson
· 1 year ago
I think it is criminal that such large changes can occur so quickly. I have three cards that have a balance. On two of them, I recieved notices of a rate increase this month and I always pay at least double the minimum and on time! I will call them and attempt to negociate the rate back to where they were and if they don't play ball, i'll transfer the balances to the card that will!
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
xx
aftercancer
· 1 year ago
We just got one from Chase. We have no balance on the card right now so we're holding on to it. After the new year we will be re-assessing our finances and I suspect this account will be closed!
LawMichigander
· 1 year ago
Credit CArds are the devil, seriously. Get rid of them.
Betty Keller
· 1 year ago
I received a notice of change in terms on my Chase MasterCard. No, they're not raising my interest rate; instead, starting Jan 1, 2009, they will be charging a 10.00 per month service charge, with or without a balance. I have had this card for over ten years, have never made a late payment or gone over my limit, and have a 784 fico score. Needless to say, I will be paying off my balance soon, and canceling this card.
All Comments
I mean, your savings are getting what? like 1% or something, and the money you owe on the card is taking 8% even at the "good" rate...so how come? Is there something I miss on this?
You sound like it was a calculated loss, you figured for some reason it was worth it, but I mention this when I can because I was pretty old before I heard some expert mention that. It helped. If anyone else reading hadn't thought this way it might be a good thing to see...that's the only reason I mention it. Wish I had read it years before I did.
But I came from a time where you save up for big ticket items, and that is soon to be criminalized behaviour I am sure...
I use credit for short term loans, pay it off immidiately. They hate me (I LOVE that) and if I can't pay it off...I just don't buy it.
Does anybody know exactly what happened on this thing? Did it die in Senate session? How come we don't hear more about this bill? We're expected to bailout the corrupt, incompetent banking industry and we don't even get a few crumbs. Man this pisses me off.
We have long ago crossed into the realm where personal finance should be treated as if it were a martial art.
Is it true that your credit rating is affected when you dump a credit card???
It is VERY hard to dump a citibank credit card, or get an IRA away from them.
I wish this lousey bank had been "allowed " to fail.
Guess what. They targeted american and english guests in the hotel.
Guess what the new passports have in them? A chip, one that a "reader" can bounce a signal off of and pick up information in it. It wouldn't take much sophistication to make a wand that could route out people holding US passports in a crowd, for that matter is isn't science fiction either to think of IED's that trigger on US passports getting near them.
What kind of meatheads are running things?
I never use it, but keep it because it has accumulated a 35k limit (you know, for a world ending emergency).
Fuck you Bank of America- I pay all my CCs on time. Why take out your problems on me?
The only CC I use (when I absolutely must) is my Credit Union Visa that will hold steady at 13%. Not exactly rock bottom, but acceptable.
When the banks in Iceland were failing (two...) the first thing that happened, nobody could get any money out of the ATM's. Needless to say, credit cards weren't all that useful either I am betting.
I have also used it as an advance on a line of home equity. We bought a
bunch of building material, then paid off the whole thing when the real
line of equity cam through.
--
Adam D. Sperry, C.A.S.
N. Hollywood, CA, USA
818 982 8105
Regards!
go, the deal was that I would get a free print of me composited into
cast picture of my choice if I signed up for the credit card.
I though that was a fair trade.
Eventually that card got combined with other MBNA cards I had acquired
over the years. Then MBNA was bought up by Chase, and Chase was bought
up by BoA. All that time they maintained the Star Trek imprint (even
the bills have a special layout incorporating the Star Trek brand).
Apart from the picture on the card, there is nothing else special about it.
You can probably achieve about the same thing with Capitol One's new
line of self-designed cards.
Adam
--
Adam D. Sperry, C.A.S.
N. Hollywood, CA, USA
818 982 8105
Rather, the next step is the government will start to collect this unsecured delinquent debt probably much iun the same way it collects taxes. Expect changes in the Bankrutpcy code to protect and prioritize this new government debt. Those delinquent instead of being just deadbeats will be unpatriotic and debtors' prisons are not out of the question as the legal landscape changes.
If I were their CEO, I'd get a really good bodyguard, because he just "disgruntled" a hell of a lot of people.
They're truly making us an offer we can't refuse.
I gotta admit - extremely well-played by the credit industry. They get a brazillion dollars of our tax money. They don't lend it OUT, and they double the charges on existing customers. I'm familiar with arbitrage, but this is ridiculous. About as economically evil as bushco is politically evil - but well-played nevertheless.
Or, as with the Best Buy offer they currently have, no interest for 18 months! That means I can buy a lot of computer now, pay it off monthly and with depreciated dollars. That's the way to use credit card companies, to provide you free money rather than to float you a usurious loan.
Greedy and stupid scum.
LLDEM is right, though, if you write a letter to the right person, it usually gets taken care of rather quickly. Citi tried to jack my rate over the summer and I wrote them expressing my extreme displeasure that they would do that to a longtime (OK, 6+ years) customer with good credit and never late payments. They upgraded my card to platinum and cut my old rate by about 12 percentage points. Not sayign that woudl necessarily work in this case, but it's worth a try.
I plan to pay off all my accounts and let them rot. Let the megabanks pay on them for once.
Here's what Republicans Will Be Grateful For This Thanksgiving.
Happy Turkey Day and happy holidays to everyone from JP in Pottersville.
----
okay, now THAT is fucking hilarious!!! LMAO!
Cut a piece from the card and tape it to your letter...then for the letter itself, clip letters from newspapers and past them on a sheet of paper, like a ransom note:
"I HaVE yOuR CArd! THe aCcoUNt nUmbER is #####. HeRE is JuST a PaRT oF It aS pROof! cHaNGe thE teRMs oR I wILl cuT uP thE REst! ..."
Yes, it was a WAMU card.
I pay all of my bills online and since I am actively paying down my cc debt, I pay over the minimum twice a month. I record not only my balance and what I'm paying but the amount of finance charges. So this one particular month I had gotten some extra money so altogether I had paid towards that card $300. Somehow my finance charges were higher this month than the previous month. So needless to say that got my attention.
After about 3 calls to the credit card company (and yes, the guys over in India are really sweet but they are effectively robots since they only react by reading instead of working with you) I still didn't have an reasonable explanation as to why my rate went from 21.00% to 29.99%. Yes, to 30%. Finally I got to a supervisor who informed me that there was a letter that went out a few months prior announcing the interest rate change, and it was more or less across the board. Basically as an invitation to cancel the account. Which I did. But mind you, there was a window of time in which the customer could call and cancel the open credit line, reverting the interest rate back to what it was and then just do a paydown. If they didn't call within that time, the 30% interest rate would stick and you would be forced to pay all of that until your balance was gone. Luckily I was within that window.
At the time I was so incensed, especially since WAMU had just failed and that 18-day CEO was getting a golden parachute anyway. So basically, even though I was a good customer, they raised my rates in order to pay for their failure.
someone should point out to the credit industry and banking industry that the phrase "you can't get blood from a stone" isn't just rhetoric.
put it this way, if someone gets to the point where some sort of charges were brought against me for failing to pay my bills? jail offers three square meals a day, and a lot of them have job training programs.
I'm seriously starting to consider it a vacation.
P.S. I no longer have any credit cards. Don't care. Pay cash for everything.
Why do I think they aren't?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/15/business/15ci...
Didn't these credit card banks just get a huge influx of money -- so now they will step on the necks of the card owners?
So much for customer loyalty.
Now with all this financial destruction we're witnessing, we're sitting fairly well and I expect that (barring outright national meltdown) we'll be able to ride this out mostly unscathed. We stash all the cash we can in the local credit union and could sit out about 18-24 months before we would have to begin to consider selling or moving or whatever.
And as much as I absolutely despise BushCo, I will give him credit for kicking my ass into gear and preparing for the future.
It wasn't easy, in fact it was damn hard, but I knew BushCo would destroy the economy and we were waaaaay to old to have to plan on living on the streets.
Per TSM's comment - If you've never been late on a payment, and "pay off the balance of my card whenever possible," that is NOT loyalty, that's being a deadbeat (in their eyes). Think about it!!!!!
It's an upside down world with credit cards: They do NOT want you to be diligent. You are NOT doing them any favor by diligently paying on time and/or in full.
I know that racking up credit card interest is maybe unavoidable for some, in some situations, but it really is a fool's game -- especially now.
Good advice: (1) Read and/or listen to Suze Orman and/or Andrew Tobias. (2) Pay your CC balance in full -- control your spending and budget yourself to make that possible. (3) Never be late. (4) It helps to be super-organized to make (2) and (3) possible.
How funny to know I cost them money!!!
And what great incentive to pay off balances!
The subprime lending industry was starting to buckle under the weight of bad loans in November 2006, when executives at Irvine-based New Century Financial Corp. held a conference call to release their latest earnings. Loan volume was down and defaults were up, the earnings report showed, and in recent weeks at least five stock analysts had downgraded the company's shares. Moreover, four executives had sold nearly $20 million in stock in the last four months, six times as much as they had sold over the previous 12 months. That led one analyst to ask whether there was anything investors should know.
"It's just part of their personal financial diversification plan," Chief Executive Brad A. Morrice said in response to the question during the Nov. 2 earnings call. Those executive stock sales, however, have emerged as a central element in the Justice Department's criminal investigation of New Century, according to a person familiar with the inquiry who was not authorized to speak publicly.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-newcent26...
I opted out. I'll have to continue to make payments according to my original agreement.
The story I got from the Customer "Service" guy was that certain types of cards were selected and the cardholders are being punished so Citi Corp execs can continue to buy their wives Bentleys and their mistresses fake tits.
Maybe we can file a class-action lawsuit...? Does anyone know? It's bullshit that Citi can change the terms of their agreement with us, but we don't have the same prerogative.
I know we signed an agreement, but I saw something on TV today about the mother who goaded the teenager into suicide through her MySpace or FaceBook page. They accepted the mother's defense that she didn't read the fine print.
If that gets this bitch off, certainly it should get us out of a credit card bill. The interest I've paid over the years has FAR exceeded the value of everything I have ever charged on that card.
Oh, that's right. Xtians only read the Bible for the bits on men who lay with men.
I am also an exemplary customer and have never missed a payment and always either pay the balance or much more than minimum.
I was fed the exact same reason :due to the economic times"
Isn't AMEX on the list of bailout recipients?
Is this therefore "double-dipping"?
I wonder...
When I spoke to Amit and asked him to opt me out and cancel, they offered me a 0% balance on any cashout of my remaining balance until July 1. So I asked for $5k which we had planned to use anyway and then pay it all off.
Dirtbags.
My last credit card bill I noticed they jacked me up to 20.59%
I've been a customer with them for over 20 years.... my credit score is over 780 and I haven't been late with a payment in over 10 years.
Yet they jacked my rate up with no notice. After calling them they lowered down to 9.9 plus libor which evened it out at around 14.9 percent.
I sold a few securitites off and depo'd the check today and am paying off my balance in full in a couple of weeks when the bill comes in and am NEVER USING MY CITI MASTERCARD AGAIN.
But I have to ad, when I did call, I said 'what did I do other than PAY MY BILLS ON TIME FOR THE LAST DECADE that gives me the privilage to have my rates hiked to a rate that a loan shark I once knew charged' The Citi Rep was silent and then went on to 'see what can be done'.
Your credit card company is probably within its legal right to play with APR rights at whim. This fact is part of the fine print, and was also made available as very public knowledge in a PBS Frontline episode describing the origin of the credit card industry in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/c...
A credit card is not a contract by the credit card company to provide an APR forever. Usually (I know of no exceptions) the credit card is an agreement to provide credit at a stated APR basically only for now. You should never rely on a credit card with the assumption that its APR will not fluctuate. This is one reason it's dangerous to use credit card for credit--you cannot be sure how much interest it will cost you.
In a way I can understand that seeing a surprising rate change during a bad economy feels like being punished for "other" people's poor behavior, but at the same time, you had the opportunity to read the credit card agreement explaining that your credit card rate could be changed at a whim.
Everyone and every business is interdependent, even people who have no debt. When you signed up for your credit card, you agreed to do business with a company doing business with other people and possibly itself leveraged, which meant you agreed to expose yourself to indirect consequences of other people's financial collapse.
I guess part of the problem described in this blog is that we are talking about culture shock: some customers expect a mixture of decency and enlightened pragmatic selfishness afford some long-term wisdom to business practices, but some businesses avoid business practices only when forced by law, and even then sometimes only with threats of lawsuit. When the economy tanks people get desperate and panic. Decency and wisdom evaporate. This is why we have written contracts because paper remembers our agreements better than good intentions.
You can certainly call the companies and pester the telephone receptionists. Taking your business elsewhere might be more effective, and if you really want to do something about fluctuating credit card APRs, maybe you can start a credit card company that offers contracts guaranteeing APRs for 5- or 10-year terms, say.
Note: I am aware that the following statement is obvious and unhelpful to many people at this point, but the credit card should not be used for credit. The reason I use a credit card is to avoid having a debit card. When the debit card is stolen, the fraudulent charges make inaccessible disputed portions of your checking account. When a credit card is stolen, the disputed charges live outside your checking account, in the financial "purgatory" of your credit card balance.
Summary: Yes, the credit card is dangerous; I thought people knew this. My parents taught me to avoid borrowing. My high school civics teacher warned us about credit cards. Interest is murder, buy things outright and pay down principal aggressively if borrowing is necessary. The ability for credit card companies to change APRs on a whim is part of the legal text you agreed to when you signed up for your card, and it was even broadcast on PBS.
While I believe people should be responsible for reading their own contracts and declining contracts they cannot understand, I also understand that in reality people expect safety labels on products and services that are obviously dangerous. I don't think this is good, but given that it seems to be reality, I don't mind having some government-approved icon to distinguish contracts offering changeable APRs from contracts guaranteeing fixed APRs for a number of years so that people can be more judicious about the credit cards they choose and about the way they use their cards. I find it ridiculous to consider using government as a substitute for literacy, but if it's necessary I might prefer to have warning labels to prevent financially dangerous choices made in aggregate by the American public. I imagine such leveraging can bring down the economy at much greater indirect cost to me than simply spending money on a committee or bureau to oversee financial safety labeling.
Best,
David Liao
PhD Candidate
Department of Physics
Princeton University, Princeton, NJ
At the same time, I'm going to give a lot of attitude about spending government resources to advertise features of legal contracts that people can read before signing up for credit cards.
If I were a lawmaker, you would get liberal leaning policies, but the style of rhetoric might not be pleasant. Substance and form both matter, but I think substance matters more.
If you look around the other posts I've placed on this website, you'll notice that a lot of them are bitter.
My great grandfather was shot by Communists in mainland China. My mother was told to be politically silent or else disappear under Chiang-Kai Shek's dictatorship. My grandfather did not eat well. My mother's family would regularly scrub down the house after typhoon floods. My father's family still keeps the tub full of water as a holdover from the days when running water was not available 24hrs/day. My father worked really hard to have an opportunity at being an American. But life here is dangerous too. My house was broken into twice--once while I was home alone. I worked harder than most of my peers at college, loosing 10 entire nights of sleep, with many more partial nights, in the first 2 years alone. I tore a ligament slipping on slick pavement and it hurt like hell. Here at Princeton I ran into bad luck with postdocs who created an unsafe laboratory atmosphere (physically unsafe) and ended up with a 100-hour generals project that turned into 800 hours, many of those hours spent over 2 weeks during several "36-hour days." When I visited California in September, I talked to 30 members of the congregation where I was raised Evangelical Christian to explain to them, being a gay atheist, why they should vote No on Prop 8. And I entertained their complaints that gay marriage would lead to incest and bestiality and their dismissal out of hand that my sexual orientation could be in any way innate.
I'm liberal. I support the ACLU, and I voted for Obama. I think it's wise to work through government to prevent destructive situations, BUT having gone through these experiences and knowing stories from my friends and family of great suffering that makes my story a walk in the park, I also have a hard time feeling emotional charity when people complain about credit card APR fluctuations that should not be surprises if they have read their credit card contracts or have watched a PBS Frontline special about credit cards.
Happy Thanksgiving,
David Liao
PhD Candidate
Department of Physics
Princeton University, Princeton, NJ
I'm very much a stickler for reading all the 'fine print' no matter if it's for a mortgage or renting tools at Home Depot so know all the facts before you try to make someone send stupid.
Good luck on the PhD since you have no hopes in social commentary.
Uh yes, I'm sure everyone who has a credit card is WELL aware of this wording in the 'contract' for the credit cards. That is not the issue. One or two percentage points, sure, I can believe that. But inflating the APR almost 100%? That's a little ridiculous,
(End excerpt from preceding comment).
Yes, I agree that (1) not reading the literal words of the contract is distinct from (2) expecting some semblance of decency in business practices. I think of the two issues as one issue because from my experience (partial summary in one of the comments I posted somewhere deeper in this thread--P.S. we've had identity theft twice in the family in a few years) my distrust for people is very automatic, automatic to the point that I believe a lot of the worst case scenarios permitted by the limits of written contracts to be likely. If businesses barely satisfy their legal obligations, I'm not that surprised, especially when the economy tanks and panic prevails. I've seen people violate written agreements and policies on multiple occasions, so the occasions that people do honor their contracts letter, even if not in spirit, my displeasure is lukewarm and my surprise is withheld. If someone goes beyond a contract to do well, I am very impressed, and I say so. ANYWAYS, I've been assuming that many people who read contracts do so because they've been burned and expect to be burned again--I expect that they read contracts to find out not (a) whether they will get burned but (b) in which ways they could be burned legally. From this discussion it is clear that I read contracts with a social context that is distinct from the interpretations that many other commenters use. I guess that's fortunate. It means that most people have had enough positive experiences to expect decent business practices.
Of course, I don't _like_ indecent business practice, and I've learned to use contracts as a tool for decency. I try to negotiate contracts that give me room to impress. I haggled for something recently from a foreign researcher who spoke poor English, and I negotiated to a low price. When I gave him the check I added a tip beyond the price to which we had agreed, and I made him sign an agreement with only a few terms: I paid him, he gave me the item, and the item was sold "AS IS." I don't think he knew enough about American law to know to insist on having a contract with those words, but I gave it to him nonetheless.
(Excerpt from preceding comment):
I'm very much a stickler for reading all the 'fine print' no matter if it's for a mortgage or renting tools at Home Depot so know all the facts before you try to make someone send stupid.
(End excerpt)
Yes, I agree I don't like it when people automatically assume that I'm stupid or try to argue that I am. I could try to weasel out of this complaint by saying that I didn't mean to call someone stupid with conversation insufficient to prevent prejudice, but I don't think honestly respect the excuse of not intending harm. Interpersonal respect is very important, so I think wisdom requires me to guard actively against causing even accidental harm, not merely to be free of deliberate malice. I have been offensive in this thread by forgetting this, sorry.
(Begin excerpt from one of the comments elsewhere in this thread by "Reasons To Be Cheerful, Part 3")
Heartless, cold, calculating, not living in the real world. Get a grip!
(End excerpt)
Agreed. That's why I'm in graduate school. Social interaction is difficult and exhausting for me to do on an intuitive level. I really do have to calculate analytically in order to interact, especially regarding business. No, seriously, it's almost as though it were a mental disorder--but it seems really normal around here.
(Begin excerpt from preceding comment)
Good luck on the PhD since you have no hopes in social commentary.
(End excerpt)
I can honestly believe this statement, but I also have to say that I did apologize for "mak[ing] someone sound stupid" by prejudice, so I would at least invite people to read what I said to my estranged church when when I felt that injustice required social commentary (http://art.magneticcarpet.com/node/76). I've also invested a lot of control during a long discussion with a conservative Evangelical regarding my being gay, and that's really exhausting to do in the context of a debate regarding the dignity or reality of a fundamental aspect of one's existence (http://art.magneticcarpet.com/node/72)--I admit I get abrasive toward the end.
Again, I apologize for assuming in haste that people were stupid. That doesn't oblige anyone to retract statements regarding my social commentary or its delivery, but I would not mind if people would consider looking at those links I provided before continuing to believe that my comments are worthless (technically no one said my comments were absolutely worthless, but I also did not technically say that anyone was stupid. These technicalities do not change the fact that reasonable interpretation on both sides of this conversation could find the _gist_ of the personal comments from the other side offensive).
Happy Thanksgiving for what that's worth
and unrelated story --- had a 0% offer from Fleet bank (around 2000), bought a computer with the intention of paying it off monthly with no interest. 6 months into the contract Fleet says that "market conditions" changed and they needed to increase my interest rate from 0% to 15% as Helicopter Ben at the fed was raising interest rates. I complained that since they were a bank- it was their job to manage their interest rate risk - not mine. They didn't agree, I paid off the balance and I cancelled the card. F*** Them!
Joe Nocera seems to think so too:
http://executivesuite.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11...
If you're a "deadbeat"--you pay off your balance every month--you really don't care what the interest rate is--it could be 299.99% percent and the effect is null as far as you're concerned. But if you carry a balance, you're going to be motivated to get out from under the debt (or find someone else to take it at a lower rate).
I think that this has been in the works for some time, since HELOC loans have pretty much become dinosaurs.
The Biden "reform" may actually backfire. Since the terms are so draconian, there's little reason for a borrower to try and negotiate with his lender until there's no way out. And you can't get blood from a stone.
Good luck, I know it sucks
They make a show of different rates, but they all go the same direction...up.
At what point is it illegal? 50%? 70%?
And, seing the big picture, if we all told them to "stuff it" we'd be killing our own economy. On the one hand, we have to pay them through debt and taxes (our government is borrowing or putting on THEIR (our) credit card to China all these bailouts) because of their screwups, on the other we have to keep using their cards or our retirement funds will all go down the toilet, and on the other hand (except we don't have three hands) we don't have a true free market, so we have to pay userious rates.
And apparently they haven't learned squat. When I was young I couldn't get a credit card because I didn't have any credit rating. Fair enough, but they seem to have completely lost the ability (as have banks and mortgage loan companies) to distinguish between good and bad risk customers.
It's like they have no discretionary powers anymore. Through history, people have always wanted to take out loans that they couldn't afford....but the gatekeepers were the LENDERS who checked you out and decided if you could and would honor your debt.
There is no more honor anymore.