DISQUS

mpec · 1 year ago

I have wondered the same thing. The Obama campaign should not be pulling its punches at this point of the campaign -- or worse, not punching at all.
Imagine the impact of having a victim of a rape in Wasilla speaking in front of a camera about suffering the indignity of a rape followed by the insult of having to pay for the rape kit because Sarah Palin's Wasilla wouldn't foot the bill. Talk about a game changer, if someone would be courageous enough to do it. What would Planned Parenthood of Alaska know about this?

hopelesspedant · 1 year ago

Isn't it awfully presumptious to assume that the Obama campaign isn't thoroughly investigating this?

To think that - with all that you list, correctly, about possible implications of this policy - they would be ignoring this is a pretty big leap.

They may very well have a plan in the works.

They might be trying to totally pin down all the details.

I understand the aggressive tone here - if this is never raised as an issue, I'll be upset too.

But the condescending, assume-they-are-incompetent tone of this post seems over the top.

lynchie · 1 year ago

we only have 55 days don't take too long to react and stop playing nice. America seems to like a good confrontation as evidenced by the Reality shows that feature cat fights, thrown fists and banishment from the shows.
Obama has nothing to lose but the election.

hopelesspedant · 1 year ago

BTW - kudos on the rape-kit/contraceptive connection - that's the sort of detail that the campaign as well as been investigating, and wanting to make this as comprehensive an attack as possible.

It's not like the election is tomorrow - there is time. It can wait for a few days more.

John Aravosis · 1 year ago

There is no time at all. The election is in 6 weeks. There is zero time to lose a week on any issue when another one may come up next week. McCain is going to hit Obama with another disgusting lie next week, and then we'll have to respond to this. You hit each issue as it comes to you, you don't wait a week thinking that "hey we got six more weeks." There's a minute left in the game, folks.

John Aravosis · 1 year ago

Yeah, they have a secret plan. They're just sitting and waiting for the opportune moment to jump on this story. Sometime after Nov 4. Pin down the details? It's taking them a week? It should take them hours. How long did it take McCain to create a weeklong firestorm about lipstick-gate - 2 hours, 3 hours? It doesn't take a week. I am condescending because I know how this business works, if it takes you a week to figure this story out, then your'e an idiot and shouldn't be running a presidential campaign. I'm sorry, but we're playing ball with the big boys and girls now - they either know how to do this, or they should get out of the game.

lynchie · 1 year ago

John: i agree with you there are so many things that the Obama crew need to deal with. To say anything about McCain not knowing computers means nothing to the average Republican from West Virginia or the midwest, neither do they. Many of the older generation view computers as simply a way of accessing porn. The comment I heard from a neighbor was I lived 75 years without one why do I need to start now. Whether one uses or knows how to use a computer has nothing to do with policies and beliefs. I don't imagine Bush can use a computer nor his father nor Cheney nor most of those ass clowns.
Go after the lies and distortions and McCain's/Palin's deep rooted feelings which are all out there, like the not paying for the costs associated with proving rape. Hammer her on her time as governor and mayor, look at the fiscal debacle she left the town in. Her total lack of any understanding regarding threats against other countries or individuals. Her interference in the divorce of her sister.
I would like to know does she plan on sharing all security conferences and intelligence with her husband. Does she plan on bringing him to meetings in the White House as she has as Governor and Mayor. Where does McCain feel her role as VP will be focused and then ram that up is Maverick butt.

dad · 1 year ago

sharp reader

mossy1 · 1 year ago

He's not hitting back at Palin because McCAIN is his opponent! The media (and the blogs...) are elevating Palin's importance, which is just what McCAIN wants! You've said yourself she's his "human shield".
Keep in mind, this stuff is all good with her base.
There has to be a better way to get this info. out other than the Obama campaign talking about it.
We want him to talk about this rotten economy, and the danger a McCain/Palin edministration would pose for our entire country and the world.
Palin's nastiness needs to be relegated to the background where it belongs.

gyratorycircus · 1 year ago

RU486 is NOT the same as Plan B (the Morning After pill).

Plan B prevents a pregnancy, while RU486 is used to induce an abortion.

There's no way an egg could be collected and used for evidence. They're too small (about the size of an end-of-the-sentence period, and mixed in with blood and other substances. Impossible to find.

foolme1ns · 1 year ago

She is dumb as a post, which is exactly why the McCain campaign chose her. There was an article on Yahoo this morning explaining it all, the lies, Palin, everything. It is all to get Obama off the news. "Everyday that we don't talk about the issues is a win for McCain.

JOHN MCCAIN WOULD RATHER LOSE HIS HONOR THAN LOSE AN ELECTION.

jpalmer · 1 year ago

Maybe I'm missing something, but why does the Obama campaign need to be involved at all in this story?

Since when has it become the responsibility of the candidates campaign to hand stories to the fourth estate?

This is not a failure of the Obama organization. This is a failure of the main stream media.

The facts are there, on the record, for any reporter to research and report. (As you are doing. - Thank you. Now, where's that donate button again?)

John Aravosis · 1 year ago

This is way the media and public relations works. Unfortunately, Democrats usually believe that firestorm stories in the media simply occur spontaneously. They don't. The Wes Clark brouhaha of a few months ago occurred because the McCain campaign jumped on Clark's statement within hours, and fanned it for a week with surrogates and campaign itself publicly excoriating Clark and Obama, and privately sending the clip to reporters and newspaper editorial boards. That's how stories blow up, they don't just become huge stories on their own. It may not be fair, it may show that the media has failed, but the Democrats in town, the Democrats running the Obama campaign, know this. They know how the media works. Or worse, maybe they don't. You're a reader, you're not supposed to know how to blow up stories in the news. Democrats running for president, being paid millions of dollars to make ads getting our guy elected, ARE supposed to know this. And they don't

unrepentant_expat · 1 year ago

Folks, you've got to google this name if you don't already know it. It has to do with a woman of the cloth, and I suspect it's the same cloth Sarah Barracuda was cut from.

Aimee McPherson
-



The Ballad of Aimee McPherson

Did you ever hear the story of Aimee McPherson?
Aimee McPherson, that wonderful person,
She weight a hundred eighty and her hair was red
And preached a wicked sermon, so the papers said.

cho: Hi dee hi dee hi dee hi
Ho dee ho dee ho dee ho.

Aimee built herself a radio station
To broadcast her prraching to the nation.
She found a man named Armistead who knew enough
To run the radio while Aimee did her stuff.

Shc held a camp meeting out at Ocean Park
Preached from early morning 'til after dark.
Said the benediction, folded up her tent,
And nobody knew where Aimee went.
When Aimee McPherson got back from this journey,
Shc told her tale to the district attorney.
Said she'd been kidnapped on a lonely trail.
In spite of all the questions, she stuck to her tale.

Well, the Grand Jury started an investigation,
Uncovered a lot of spicy information.
Found out about a love nest down at Carmel-by-the-Sea,
Where the liquor was expensive and the loving was free.

They found a cottage with a breakfast nook,
A folding bed with a worn-out look.
The slats were busted and the springs were loose,
And the dents in the mattress fitted Aimee's caboose.

Well they took poor Aimee and they threw her in jail.
Last I heard she was out on bail.
They'll send her up for a stretch, I guess,
She worked herself up into an awful mess
Now Radio Ray is a going hound;
He's going yet and he ain't been found.
They got his description, but they got it too late.
Sin they got it, he's lost a lot of weight.

Now I'll end my story in the usual way,
About this lady preacher's holiday.
If you don't get the moral then you're the gal for me
Cause they got a lot of cottages down at Carmel-by-the-Sea.

mpec · 1 year ago

I agree that this would be a major missed opportunity if the Obama campaign didn't take advantage of this. Though the ad I envision might be better if it came from an independent group. Remember the scene from the movie "Broadcast News" with the date-rape victim. Imagine the impact from an ad in which a victim of Palin's rape-kit policy speaks to the camera about the indignity of having to pay for the kit after suffering through the tragedy of a rape. Talk about a game-changer. It would take a heroic, courageous woman to do it. What would the Alaska Planned Parenthood know about this?

ron071 · 1 year ago

Let's Be Fair To Lady Wasilla. Too much Iraq money being sent to D.C. and not enough left for the rape kits in Wasilla. Fortunately, the state of Alaska stepped in and provided the mandate for Wasilla. Many earmarks for Alaska, but not any for rape kits. The TRUE VALUES OF PALIN are a good theme for an American horror story.

ydthin · 1 year ago

I thought it was something confiscatory linked to abortion but kudos to the reader who figured this out, it makes perfect sense, that is exactly what is going on here. I agree thoroughly with jpalmer, Obama doesn't have to beat the drum on this one, at least not initially, not only can the media do so but we still do have a feminist movement in this country with NOW and NARAL, Steinem has already chimed in on S-Aryan, it seems women need to articulate these issues for liberal men who seem to have been tripping over them since Palin was first nom w/regard to what they can and can't say about women without getting accused of sexism, and I would much rather it happen that way than for Obama to shoot himself in the foot for saying something that can be twisted against him later on (legitimately).

John Aravosis · 1 year ago

The thing is, the media won't do it by themselves. You have to hand a story to them - do a big announcement, hold a public event, launch a campaign or action, something to MAKE it a story. And yes, the women's groups are missing in action on this one.

ydthin · 1 year ago

Where are they, anyway. If McCain keeps pissing off the press maybe this will develop, I hope so, because it's so glaring and know fundies like I do I bet this is what it looks like. Someone gave her the idea though, I wonder if it is a "Feminists for Life" doctrine or something...

ydthin · 1 year ago

I found it:

What about Rape and Incest

"Abortion advocates frequently use the tragedies of rape and incest to push for legalized abortion. FFL explores "Victory Over Violence" through first-hand accounts of victims and survivors."
http://www.feministsforlife.org/international/i...

Abortion: The Second Rape
A rape crisis center counselor describes abortion as victimizing the woman a second time and challenges others to offer life-affirming solutions.
"In short, abortion hurts rape and incest victims. Most women, even those who see abortion as the "right choice" or the "only choice," experience abortion as a violation."
http://www.feministsforlife.org/FFL_topics/vict...

It's called the "Second Rape" by Feminists for Life, which Sarah Palin is a member of. This is FFL doctrine, it's definitely not an accident she was charging rape victims for their rape kits.

jpalmer · 1 year ago

I think you're right about the media - most of the time.*

Anyway, Obama shouldn't be the one 'serving' this issue, this is exactly where HRC should step in. Obama can then respond to the attacks from the Reptilians.

* See "This week's Missing Blond Woman Story"

djbmd · 1 year ago

Just to be clear...

-You cannot collect a fertilized egg via a rape kit, you are collecting evidence of rape (sperm, semen, etc) and evidence of STDs.

-The Morning After PIll (a double dose of a normal contraceptive pill (estrogen/progesterone) prevents fertilization (most likely) not implantation so is not considered an abortifacient, but RU-486, is, in fact, an abortifacient and does cause removal of a fertilized egg.

Important to be clear because the anti-choice fringe will jump on any factual error to discredit valid points.

SarainKC · 1 year ago

I read many of he post below and think this is an issue that Obama needs to talk about. This is about CRIMES against women, and that is something that we deserve to know how our elected officials will respond. McCain, by virtue of his 26 year voting history against womenand now his running mate, by virtue of her horrific policy of charging rape victims to collect the evidence needed to prosecute their attackers, is vital information for wvery woman and parent of girls. McCain, through his distortion of the sex in kindergarten ad and Palin with this tells us they are for protecting pedophiles and rapists. That is something the voters need to be fully aware of.

mossy1 · 1 year ago

As a woman, I agree, to a point: BIDEN should talk about it, because he was the author of a bill about crimes against women, and, because Palin is HIS opponent.

SarainKC · 1 year ago

Agreed, but I think Obama should add to his platform his advocay in supporting Biden's Violence Against Women Act and challenge challenge community, local and state reps to champion causes to protect women and children. They need to highlight McCain/Palin's complete disregard for the rights and safety of children and women and turn it into a new crusade.

mossy1 · 1 year ago

I agree, but only if they can tie this to McCain, as an issue he shares with Palin. Keep in mind - the more she is in the news, the less they concentrate on McCain. Nobody ever won / lost on the strength of their VP nominee........... but the right would love it if we can make this a first.
She needs to be sent to the background where she belongs. We have an election to win. THEN Hillary can do some REALLY GREAT WORK IN CONGRESS for women and children's issues! See?

ydthin · 1 year ago

true but he needs to do it right and one thing I've seen since this nom over and over is that lib. men don't exactly 'get it' when it comes to women's reproductive rights issues, I heard over and over and over when Bristol's preg. was leaked about how her kids are not an issue, leave her kids alone. The HELL they aren't/ when this teen mom is the vision she holds for every teenage female in america, whether she didn't have access or knowledge about birth control thanks to abstinence only education or was raped by her drunk dad or uncle or whatever the case may be. Teens have a high rate of low-birth weight babies and the U.S. infant mortality rate is embarassingly astronomical already, it's ridiculous. The U.S. needs to serioulsy get it's sh*t together when it comes to childbirth/infant mortality issues before anyone in any public office harps on and on about abortion, Our high infant mortality rate is linked to lack of prenatal care, policies like Palin's are killing babies right and left and yet they have the unmitigated gall to balk at abortion. I've never heard a male politician articulate this stuff with much success, they just don't get the links, at least the journalists are able to get out there and do the research and crunch the numbers a bit to point out the hypocrisy but that is investigation and not being handed talking points...I don't want Obama to touch this until he knows what the hay he's talking about and *understands* it.

SarainKC · 1 year ago

That's why this can't be framed as an abortion issue. It's a crime issue. Crimes against women and the right for every victim of crime to expect justice. Keep it simple. By charging rape victims for the evidence they need to prosecute their attackers, Palin believes justice is for those who can afford it.

ydthin · 1 year ago

excellent point, a class issue, even better. Not only that but many rapists are repeat offenders and Alaska has a high Native population and the rate of sexual assault of Native American women is astronomical when compared to the national average, so there is a race issue within this as well.

ViaAlpina · 1 year ago

John, another thing the Obama campaign must do is make an ad about McCain's "Viagra-contraceptives" moment, his utter confusion when some member of his own staff asked him about companies not covering birth control, unlike viagra. He had no idea what to say, and is probably anti-birth control who will force his views upon everyone else. We need to highlight this feature of McCain-Palin and we need to repeat the ads over and over again.

sukabi1 · 1 year ago

Ummm, , eggs that may be in the vagina are being flushed out of the body because they weren't fertilized or didn't implant in the uterus, so any egg that may or may not be collected is body waste at the point of a rape examine.

they do vaginal swabs to collect sperm, any egg that might be present in the vagina would have been expelled as part of the body's natural monthly cleansing cycle... an egg that might be fertilized as a result of the rape would still have to be either in the fallopian tubes or just entering the uterus... typically most eggs are fertilized in the fallopian tubes and move to the uterus and implant there IF conditions are right.

Please learn how your body works.

katymine · 1 year ago

(As an aside, the reader asked if sometimes during these exams a fertilized egg is collected as evidence - does anybody have the facts on this?)

The collection of eggs either fertilized or not is a surgical procedure which is currently done through a laproscopic procedure under anesthesia and not part of rape kit examination. There is no way to collect eggs as these are in the lower abdomen from the Ovary through the tubes into the uterus..... in an external forensic exam.

the post rape exam usually is pictures, gathering vaginal and anal swabs, combing pubic areas for hair .... DNA from saliva, bite marks etc......

eliot99 · 1 year ago

The answer to the egg collection question is no (I was a detective for many years). Instructions for the doctor as well as evidence collection containers (tubes, swaps, envelopes etc.), are included but no container or requirement for egg collection.

ron071 · 1 year ago

Some Palin Positions Approach Insanity Via Extremism. McSame / Palin would be the horror story of all time. Can American voters in sufficient numbers be FOOLED FOR A THIRD TIME ? Perhaps, its the hidden factor of racism at play here. Only a massive voter turnout will win the day.

SarainKC · 1 year ago

Unfortunately racism is a factor, but I think the bigger obstacle is people are believing the repugnant's lies about Obama raising taxes. I can't tell you how many times I have had to correct the misinformation out there for my friends who are otherwise smart people. The tax issue is the big thing for them and that's what needs to be clarified for them.

hopelesspedant · 1 year ago

Gov Ed Rendell sent out a memo to all Dem officials in Pennsylvania about this - he says this more than anything else is hurting Obama.

Upcoming ads and particularly the debates should help remedy this, coupled with words close to or exactly "lie."

hawkseye · 1 year ago

I think the election will be decided by turnout and IQ. If your IQ is below 100, you'll vote for McSame, etc.

dad · 1 year ago

from Joe's link, the link to lieberman

Lieberman said he believes hospitals that refuse to give contraceptives to rape victims for "principled reasons" shouldn't be forced to do so. "In Connecticut, it shouldn't take more than a short ride to get to another hospital," he said.

mossy1 · 1 year ago

Hmmmmmmm. I wonder if it occurs to Lieberman and any other holier-than-thou types that the choice of whether to utilize contraceptives should lie with the rape VICTIM rather than the organization providing service. This country is upside-down and inside-out in trying to allow the moral choices to the wrong people.

naschkatzehussein · 1 year ago

Any hospitals which accept federal funding should do the bidding of the government, not the other way around. Let the hospitals make the moral choice, should they wish, of turning down funds in order to retain their religious principles.

Lyrebird · 1 year ago

I don't know if bringing in the Plan B aspect helps... I think earlier A-blog commenters (forgive me for forgetting who was who) have provided the main story that YES should be repeated over and over:

1: McCain chose a running mate who was fine with charging rape victims for their own forensic work-ups -- if your house is robbed, should you pay for the fingerprinting supplies? HELLO? Or to quote a commenter, it's like asking the murder victim's family to pay for the autopsy. BOTTOM LINE: Palin doesn't think women w/o the ability to pay for their own forensic exams don't have the right to press charges against rapists.

2: Obama chose as a running mate the man who made congress make the states STOP this barbaric practice of punishing rape victims.

'nuff said.
(Please, if you like this meme and are better at wording things than me, GO ON AND HONE THE MESSAGE!)

jessilu · 1 year ago

Not to throw a wet blanket, but LA county charges for their rape kits too. I think their motive must be financial, too, but the argument is easier to understand: it's a huge county hospital processing a really high volume of rape victims and providing lots of other services, advocacy etc on a limited budget. I've never heard anyone in LA talk about how charging for rape kits would lower taxes. That is the offensive part to me, not that they charge, it's making the argument that the community is better served that way.

ydthin · 1 year ago

I can't find this, I find plenty of articles talking about how the kits aren't processed, but none talking about how the victims are charged.

jessilu · 1 year ago

according to my husband, who was a sex assault det, the rape kit is a billable hospital service like a blood test or a cast.  It can be billed to insurance, but the vast majority of vicitms he helped had no insurance, so victims got a bill for it.  however, even the cops didn't feel good about victims being charged, so they advocated that victims services affiliated with the hospital paid for it.  there was no guarantee their services would be paid for, but the hospital hast go get paid somehow.  I don't know if in Palin's case they just didn't offer the victims services part of the equation.

questionauthority · 1 year ago

RE: "...someone needs to have a chat with whoever in the higher reaches of the Obama campaign is responsible for missing so many no-brainers ..."

WORD!!!
I'm glad someone else recognizes that so many prime opportunities have slipped by.

For example- someone should take a clip of McCain's acceptance speech at the point where he says (paraphrased) '...the first pork bill that comes across my desk I will veto...you will know their names...I will make them famous...'; then follow it with a game show style voice over intro of "Meet Sarah Palin", and then while showing her picture, mention that she kept the bridge money, didn't 'fire the chef', charged the State while living at home, and that AK has the highest earmarks per capita of all the 50 states!

OBAMA, OH-EIGHT, OR ELSE!

lilyannerose · 1 year ago

Interesting speculation. I just thought that maybe somewhere in Sarah's brain she heard the sound of the fundamentalist patriarchs drilling into her twisted mind the idea that a raped woman is a woman who had it coming. I've also wondered if this woman is a sadist. Actually I do believe she is a sadist what else would advocate for aerial hunting?

I couldn't imagine after such a traumatic experience as rape being made to carry that trauma for nine months. It's my own belief that a pregnancy should be a time of joy and celebration and not to set the psychological stage for your body to continue to be violated for nine month after the violence.

bronco214 · 1 year ago

The old "she had it coming" so we'll screw with the victim. Typical rethug thought process.
One more time- "Sarah Palin thinks.." is an oxymoron.

hawkseye · 1 year ago

Same philosophy as the Taliban.

brilliantatbreakfast · 1 year ago

John, the reader you quote is using the "fertilization and implantation" definition of "conception." People like Palin regard every fertilized egg as a full human being with full rights. To them, sperm-meeting-egg is conception. What they don't want to talk about is how their worldview would mandate that women die of ruptured tubal pregnancies that can never be brought to term, rather than ending said pregnancy, or the fact that up to 40% of fertilized eggs nver implant, for any number of reasons. I've said for years that before it's all over, women will be charged with murder for having periods, and people said I was crazy.

hawkseye · 1 year ago

If you follow their insane reasoning to its logical conclusion, that's where you wind up. I think they will also say that an unfertilized egg and a sperm are equal to half a life each, so don't waste any of them.

shanobama · 1 year ago

The emergency contraceptive pills have always been protested by the Xtian right. If you prevent a fertilized egg from implanting in the lining of the womb, you are killing a baby.

This has been shown by a small group of Xtian pharmacists protesting against dispensing the drugs to women who may need them because of unprotected sex or condom breakage.

They also think the birth control pill is an abortifact, because it sometimes stops a fertilized egg from implantation. These hormones change the lining of the womb so a fertilized egg is usually unable to attach to the womb lining. Not 100%, but they do prevent unintended pregnancies. The morning after pill was available in Ireland, a Catholic country, before it was available in the US.

Palin/McCain will force women back to the bad old days.

The morning after pill prevents abortions, but they do not see it that way at all. Every woman of childbearing age who is raped should take it as a matter of treatment. Maybe this is why Palin wanted to put the burden on the victims.

Indigo · 1 year ago

If a doctor is not prepared to practice medicine, the doctor's license should be revoked.

hawkseye · 1 year ago

I think there was a court decision by some dimwit(s) (federal? state?) that permits doctors and pharmacists to do what they believe in. So some pharmacists won't fill requests or prescriptions for contraceptives, etc.

KYrocky · 1 year ago

Rape is a Crime. Police have a duty to investiage, and under Palin the ONLY victims charged for the police doing their duty were victims of rape. This is disgusting enough, and if her view on abortion was a factor than she is a pig. As far as the budget argument goes, that too is a lie. Palin cut taxes for her little town. If she cut them too much for the police to do their job that she was incompetent. If the budget was a problem why didn't she use some of that $27,000,000.00 of earmark pork her lobbiest brought to her to pay for a couple friggin rape kits. Palin is a true modern Republican, a heartless P.O.S. toward any who do not share her views.

Rape is a Crime.

eclecticbrotha · 1 year ago

Once again for the logically impaired.

Barack Obama is running against John McCain. Every time you try to make it Obama vs. Palin, John McCain gets a another day of freedom while the clock dwindles down. When we waste time arguing about rape kits, bridges and wolves John McCain is free from questions about what he intends to do if elected. Focus on the economy. That's the message of this campaign. And stop ripping on the candidate you're supposed to be supporting because he doesn't troll blogs for campaign strategy.

ydthin · 1 year ago

I see what you are saying but this pick was made for the sake of swinging independent WOMEN to McCain's side, and he's gotten a huge bump, if you believe the polls, after he did so. If McCain is that concerned about the impact of women voters on this election then Obama should be as well, and reproductive rights for half the population have everything to do with economics.

hawkseye · 1 year ago

We need to attack McCain for his stupid positions on Choice, not Paleolithic's.

hawkseye · 1 year ago

Thanks for saying this. I completely agree.

naschkatzehussein · 1 year ago

I sent the Obama two e-mails recently about points on whch I thought he and Joe Biden especially should go after Palin. One was to do with her lack of preparedness on national security as revealed in the Gibson interview. The other was this question of making rape victims or their insurance companies pay for their forensic examination kits ($500 to $1200), and I asked the campaign to get Biden on this issue because of his accomplishment of the Violence Against Women Act. I thought the contrast between the two would be significant. I received standard replies to both my e-mails that neither Obama or Biden were going to make personal attacks on Sarah Palin (????????) and that they would wait until their respective debates to deal with her. I e-mailed them back that in no way was I suggesting personal attacks on her, that these were serious issue to be dealt with. And if they wait until the Biden/Palin debate which is weeks away, it would be too fucking late. They should strike while the topic is hot. As a woman, I think the majority of women would be turned off by Palin's insensitivity to the raped woman's fragile state. I believe 1 out of 5 women in this country have or will have had first hand experience of rape in their life times.

naschkatzehussein · 1 year ago

I see that I made a few typos and don't see the edit feature. So my apologies and as you can see this is a hot button issue for me.

ydthin · 1 year ago

typical, they just don't 'get' how women feel particularly betrayed by a woman running for this high an office in a way they won't by a man whom while they oppose said man are not expecting to 'understand' this issue in the same way someone with a uterus should. That is why Palin matters to half the country, Rove picked her because she represents something important to one segment of the population and they are missing the fact that she might represent something really putrid and inexcusable to liberal women, which she does, so they need to get out the women's lib cliff's notes and study up on this and address it at some point soon.

40something · 1 year ago

I'm wondering if in fact the primary use of a rape kit is not for the benefit of the victim, but for the apprehension of the rapist. And of course we recall John's post from the other day about Alaska having the highest incidence of sexual assault per capita in the entire US. How much of this is from serial criminal activity because SOME communities are not doing every thing they can to catch the rapist? How many rapes are acceptable just as long as a no one takes a form of contraception? 10? 100? I agree that this is a CRIMINAL issue, not a moral one. If they want to be soft on crime - soft on rapists - then bring it on. Of course, not that Obama's going to do anything with it....

katymine · 1 year ago

Am I being banned?
This is more than once that a comment I have made has disappeared.... If that is the case you would think you would notify me so that I don't waste my time

40something · 1 year ago

My comment just disappeared as well. But I'm sure it's not a "banning" issue. Technical difficulties?

40something · 1 year ago

It seems that if you go back and edit a comment, leave and then come back your initial comment is gone....

mmedefarge · 1 year ago

I wish that people would stop referring to the people who suppress other people's reproductive rights as "pro-life". What they do is hardly life-affirming. I use the phrase "anti-choice" to describe them, which is not completely adequate, but at least does not give them any positive description.

AngelaChanning · 1 year ago

Don't forget the foundation of the Supreme Court that decriminalizes gay sex in private was Roe v. Wade. It would really be a shame for a lot of us to have to go back into the closet.

anotherdumguy · 1 year ago

What I want to know is where the fuck are the surrogates. This should NOT be done by the "official" Obama campaign. Why can't they find a rape victim to start making a fuss about this (like last Tuesday would have been the right time). This should have been THE talking point all week.

toleary · 1 year ago

Uh, anyone notice that there's a Hurricane getting all the news cycles right now? There's plenty of time to bring this up, comprehensively.

Will_In_Midtown · 1 year ago

I have to say, I find this pretty disgusting. But more, I cannot figure out just what the hell emergency care providers think they are accomplishing by not helping the rape woman not get pregnant. It is so preposterous to think they believe they are helping a loved child come in to the world that it really turns my stomach.

Nylund · 1 year ago

Remember that this is the right's ideal definition of abortion (from a white house memo):

"proposes to define abortion as 'any of the various procedures — including the prescription and administration of any drug or the performance of any procedure or any other action — that results in the termination of the life of a human being in utero between conception and natural birth, whether before or after implantation."

"whether before or after implantation"...this refers to birth control pills and was specifically written regarding the practice of giving Plan B to rape victims (which is standard operating procedure in many hospitals).

So, to MANY of the pro-lifers on the right, yes a rape kit is absolutely 100% considered abortion. Heck, just taking birth control would be defined as such.

mmedefarge · 1 year ago

jeez, they outdo the Vatican...

cmpnwtr · 1 year ago

John, what you and your readers don't understand is that the fundies believe that every fertilized ova is considered to be a full human being with an immortal soul, and any attempt to stop or interfere with implantation by Plan B, swabs, or other means is considered murder. You may think that is bizarro world, but that's where they are coming from. That's where Palin is coming from so I'm not surprised if that was the actual reason behind this refusal to pay for rape kits.

freshpaint · 1 year ago

I don't think so. If you read about it, the police chief was yelling and screaming about how much it cost. You have to remember these people will nickel and dime the victims of a crime while charging the taxpayers for "travel" expenses for their families, putting relatives on the payroll, bridges to nowhere, etc. They will use anti-choice rhetoric if it suits their purposes or to cover their butts.

You think if Sarah herself had got raped she wouldn't be the first in line for the morning after pill? BTW, what have she and the first dude been doing for contraception? Enquiring minds really really want to know.

I sincerely hope that all the fundies out there never ever have sex unless they are planning to have a child.

And I wish they'd spend more time paying attention to women and children once they are born rather than worry what's happening in our utereses before hand.

Why should insurance companies, welfare, etc. cover Viagra but not contraception? The world view is that "real humans" are men, not women, and they like it that way.

xjn · 1 year ago

fertilized egg as evidence? are you kidding? Its ONE (1) single cell. Scouring a woman's uterus with a microscope for a single cell that might or might not be there would be invasive and painful and not something I'd wish on any woman, much less one who had just been raped... Please don't put this idea out there like this or the next thing you know the right to life freaks will be demanding this procedure.

40something · 1 year ago

I wonder if a rape kit is perhaps intended more for the apprehension of the rapist than for the benefit of the victim? It's all about collecting evidence, right? I recall that John very recently posted a graph showing Alaska as having the highest per capita incidence of sexual assault. How many of these are perpetrated by repeat offenders who are not being apprehended because previous rape victims did not have insurance to pay for them? And how many Americans without insurance? I agree that more should look at this as a CRIMINAL issue, not a moral one. Is Sarah Palin SOFT ON CRIME? Does she look the other way as rapists roam freely about her community? Sounds like a great opportunity for Biden to pounce on the republican VP, but I won't hold my breath.

shanobama · 1 year ago

Good points all. The rape kit does provide the DNA evidence, from sperm, hairs or skin cells-that will help find and prosecute the criminal rapist.

Treatment for rape should always include the emergency contraceptive, or morning after pills.

These two are separate but connected issues. One is a law inforcement (find the rapist) issue in the necessity for gathering DNA evidence of the crime.

The other protects women. Otherwise, rapists get to decide who has 'their' baby, a most disgusting reality. Do you want criminals to be able to choose which woman will be forced to carry his baby to term? Sounds harsh, but that is the result of not supporting emergency contraceptive.

Both these issues should be brought into the public sphere when addressing Palins actions as a mayor and governor. Soft on crime while at the same time protecting the choices of criminal rapists over the choices of the women victims of rape.

danceswithcannulas · 1 year ago

I am a prochoice gynecologist who does abortions, so here are two points:
1. No you can't get a fertilized egg from a rape kit.
2.Plan B works by preventing the hormone spike that triggers ovulation. so there never is even a fertilized egg, let alone a pregnancy. The idea that Plan B works by preventing implantation was an initial theory, but is now scientifically out of date. In a rational world, a person who opposed abortion would endorse this method, but it's really about punishing women for having sex.

stormfront · 1 year ago

Just found this site while googling about Palin charging rape victims for their forensic exams.
Women are still going off on how Palins 'one of them'. This scares the hell out of me. Punishing rape victims by charging them? Refusing the Plan B to victims? Imagine what will happen to this country if the bible thumping pole dancer and the Stay Puft Marshmallow man win....

jomidkay · 1 year ago

Charging for rape kits is utterly despicable and not making this a major issue is incompetence on a spectacular scale. I know this, you know this, and Obama doesn't? What does this say about this man and his campaign staff?

During the primaries, I took the position that either Clinton or Obama would be acceptable candidates.

I was wrong. So were you.

If a corrupt liar like McCain becomes President because of Obama's jackasserie, which is looking more and more likely, we will all suffer.

This makes Obama look like a cowardly, incompetent fool. In fact, it proves it.

He's still vastly better than McCain, and it's time for all of us who thoroughly disgusted with with Republican criminal misrule to raise holy hell with Biden Clinton, and all other Democratic leaders and office holders, both local and national, and tell them that at long last it's time for them to tell Obama to get off his knees and keister and fight back.

hawkseye · 1 year ago

I am sure she does consider a rape kit an abortion.

freshpaint · 1 year ago

Has no one out there ever seen an episode of Law and Order SVU???? It's been on the air, what, eight years??? Or CSI? 90 percent of the shows on tv (it seems) have to do with violence toward women.

The rape kit in question is a POLICE kit -- all those medical swabs, hair collection, bruising, photographs, etc. etc. The stuff we love to watch them analyze on TV.

If this is getting mixed up with the debate about morning after pills, etc. it is the SPIN doctors who are doing the mix-up on purpose to cloud the issue in the minds of voters.

This is what they do every time. This is how they make you unsure what day it is, what the weather is, whether you're crazy for thinking something, etc. It is psychological manipulation at its worst, and there is no one better at it than a Republican party operative.

shanobama · 1 year ago

But the act of rape has a immediate consequence for the woman victim. If a woman is at a hospital getting a rape kit done after a brutal crime has been committed, do you want the doctor to be able to offer the woman a 'morning after pill'?

I do.

Otherwise, the woman will be in real agony for a period of weeks to see if the rapist managed to fertilize one of her eggs. (even with agreeable sexual acts, every woman who does not want to become pregnant has had this experience) This is all connected if you are a woman.

Why should women be forced to carry a rapists baby to term? That is what the Xtian right believes. No morning after pill, no emergency contraceptive-even in the case of the brutal crime of rape or incest.

jimfromthefoothills · 1 year ago

john, why wont the campaign make an issue of this?

spectral_ev · 1 year ago

you are absolutely right to suspect anti-abortion politics in this who situation. i cover the SANE/SART program and the role of emergency contraception here
http://kmareka.com/?p=1988
i really believe that Sarah Palin feared being accused of using state money to fund 'abortion'
even the Catholics are not that extreme

LKN · 1 year ago

The Republican platform on abortion (no exception for rape, incest, or the life/health of the mother) should provide some issue opportunities for the pro choice movement. Some violent tendencies are inherited. Forcing a woman who is raped is forcing her to combine her DNA and that of future generations of her family, with that of a violent criminal. Use the statement that the GOVERNMENT will decide your family's future. Forced procreation is what the NAZIS used to do. A picture of a prison yard during a riot could not hurt, either. If McCain and Palin are forced to explain "we really don't believe that" they will have lost on the issue and will tend to anger their base, also. McCain/Palin are wrong for your family's future and are wrong for America.

RonNYC · 1 year ago

Maybe Obama and Biden are hoping for a position in a McCain administration and that's why they don't hit them hard. Can anyone think of a better explanation? It's beyond mystery. In fact, it rather scares me. If Obama is so passive in the face of McCain and the GOP how will he be in the real world? If he won't stand up for himself (and us, who now support him as our candidate), will he stand up for us when he's president?

mattrett · 1 year ago

John, I think you're 100% right about Sarah Palin equating this with abortion. This also explains her relative silence on the issue (the spokesperson's denial was wishy-washy, when examined closely)—she is firmly against, but knows that's out of step with the mainstream voters, so she wants to kind of shuffle along and hope no one notices. I think there is a compelling narrative now for an ad that is not all about Palin, but uses "and his running mate is even more extreme..." as the exclamation point at the end. What about a speech on the subject, pointing out that their side wants to overturn Roe v. Wade and make every state a battleground for abortion all over again? I am losing hope that Obama/Biden will have the balls to issue an ad like this. But I do feel there is a good chance something is coming, based on the cryptic "we're awaaare of it" response on that conference call.

timintn · 1 year ago

With high rape statistics in Alaska, I'm sure there is pressure to bring the number down. One way would be to reduce the number of rapes reported - if a victim can't afford the kit, they don't report, one less rape reported for Wasilla. I think that is real reason they charged for rape kits.

fredndallas · 1 year ago

John is 1000% right on this and should have all our appreciation to try to step in and make the right point of it to help our cause.

Not to minimize the outrage of the "rape kit" position (see below) but a similar outrageous issue is the Obama Campaign's unbridled arrogance and increasingly apparent isolationist incompetence. I was inferring this to a greater and greater degree (as John has been apparently) as time went on, but it was absolutely confirmed with Plouffe's "bedwetting" comment. I've not seen other posts about that here, but I think every single Obama supporter should push back at the campaign on that destructive mentality and HARD. If the campaign doesn't look into the mirror and quickly, this is going to be a disaster for the country -- and John is right, there is NO TIME to dally.

Here's what I wrote the campaign a couple of days ago -- harshly -- to make a point that I feel is critical to Obama victory:

"You know what. . .

perhaps Barack Obama does not DESERVE to win this election.

If his hand picked campaign leader, David Plouffe says this:
about MANY loyal Democrats concerned about the arrogance, whatever attitude and lack of LISTENING at a campaign that has positioned itself as DIFFERENT . . . [re: Palin's rape kit stand]

'We're familiar with this. And I'm sure between now and Nov. 4 there will be another period of hand-wringing and bed-wetting. It comes with the territory.'

BED-WETTING ???

Mr. Plouffe why don't you go fornicate yourself !

NOW we can see where the ARROGANCE is coming from -- the TOP of the campaign.

The COUNTRY does not deserve to lose this campaign. The millions of loyal Democrats do not deserve to lose this campaign,

but perhaps OTHERS DO ... starting with Mr. Bed Wetting Plouffe.

I'm DISGUSTED!"

##

The rape kit issue is GIGANTIC in my opinion -- and pretty much hidden. It is screaming to be brought into the open and now is the time. A year or so ago I became aware that in Dallas County, Texas (in one case at least) the practice is the same: the rape victim gets hit with a big bill!

Raped again.

Unconscionable!

renegademom · 1 year ago

The Point here is that it is the choice of the woman who has been ASSAULTED whether she wants a kit done, wants "the morning after" pill, wants to prosecute. It's about CHOICE. I was sexually assaulted in 1991, and frankly, in the ER, it never even entered my mind that ANYONE would have to pay for my treatment. To me, it all felt like part of a police investigation........No one pressured me to do ANYTHING, but I was given lots of CHOICES. Let's keep it simple, people. This is NOT a theoretical, philosophical discussion. Those of us who have been assaulted are REAL PEOPLE.

Stevens · 1 year ago

Now isn't that considerate of Palin...letting rapists chose the mothers of their children by way of an act based in hate, violence and terror.

worldwidehappiness · 1 year ago

Maybe Obama believes that if he can beat the unbeatable Hillary Clinton, then he believes he can beat McCain the same way.
But Obama vs Clinton is Democrat vs Democrat.
The GE is Democrat vs Republican.
The whole American population is more susceptible to dirty polticits than just Democrat voters.
Maybe the Obama campagn became conceited after defeating Hillary.
They need to change strategy for the GE.

smiling_dog · 1 year ago

This is probably a dead thread, now, John, but let me ask you why you feel there is such a rush for Obama to make hay with this issue. It will still be there next week. In the meantime, you just found out today the stuff you are posting about. Some of these things lead to dead ends and some can make big political points. I think you should find out what happened before pouncing. For the record, I think the other issue with charging for rape kits is the attitude from the right that there are all these sluts falsely accusing innocent men of rape and a kind of "if you were really raped then you can just pay for your own rape kit to prove it" premise.

DoctorFoxtrot · 1 year ago

Removing a fertilized egg is not part of a rape kit. For one thing, fertilization does not generally take place until a few days after sex (the sperm have to travel all the way up to the tube, where fertilization takes place).