AMERICAblog: Do Americans want to pay for public transport?
1billinnj2
· 1 year ago
pay one way or another. they will be wearing out a lot of shoes and sneakers by walking. it will take a leader to change the american way of life. maybe obama?
AngelaChanning
· 1 year ago
I think if oil drops, people will forget all about public transportation infrastructure. In cities like Baltimore, it is entirely a hodge podge and afterthought. Thank you for listening.
unrepentant_expat
· 1 year ago
Amecicans and just about everybody else have paid their lifeblood for lack of public transport.
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
Do Americans want to pay for public transport?
I would gladly pay. Would much prefer my taxes to go to this than war.
hawkseye
· 1 year ago
me too
unrepentant_expat
· 1 year ago
BTW if some one out there has CSPAN, what's happening at the moment?
PJT
· 1 year ago
Kucinich is speaking... Mentioning Bush in a negative way... Presenting impeachment, perhaps?
ComradeRutherford
· 1 year ago
Yes, he is reading 30-something articles of impeachment against Acting President George Bush. So far everything he has cited is triple-checked, it's all true. These articles are to go along with the articles of impeachment he read against VP Cheney.
Please, everyone, call your congressional representative and demand that they uphold the Rule of Law. Get the Judiciary to take this up and at least discuss it.
TBLJ
· 1 year ago
I would pay. Why is it so hard to put together a plan for good public transportation.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
The average government subsidy per rail passenger transport from OKC to Dallas was $140 about 10 years ago. Who knows what it is today? This isn't Europe. There aren't giant globs of people at every stop. Maybe 2 or 3. Mass transit belongs in the cities; and sometimes not even in most cities. The answer will eventually probably be hydrogen powered vehicles or electric vehicles. The USA has all the ingredients in place to make this happen.
Õ¿Õ
· 1 year ago
I was thinking the same about transit. We're just too spread out here. As much as I love ragging on other Americans, we'll figure something out.
I hope...
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
More than 93 percent of the US population lives in Metropolitan areas.
People who live in the sticks should have to pay that extra transportation cost.
Fuck them if they want to live in the woods.
PJT
· 1 year ago
Here in Southeast Michigan, there has long been talk about light rail into Ann Arbor, and possibly from there into Detroit. It has less to do with gas, however, and far more to do with the overburdened highways leading into/out of A2. US23 can be a parking lot most times, and I94 is continually under construction, it would seem. If there is an accident on either, you may as well set up camp and wait for the all-clear.
According to the Cheney doctrine, you're either with Exxon or you,re with the enemy.
Mikki --SE Pennsylvania
· 1 year ago
Cheney IS the enemy!
Busboy
· 1 year ago
From what I've heard, Exxon is ready to cash their chips in the USA. More profit to be made abroad. Corporations go where the grass is greener.
Õ¿Õ
· 1 year ago
Fine. I wish they would take their rigs off the coast here in Louisiana and go where it's greener. We don't see a dime of help in this really poor state from them.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
Taxes in Louisiana are pretty cheap because the state levys a "severance tax" on all oil and gas produced in Louisiana. What the politicians do with the money is up to them...
paleo101
· 1 year ago
I live in rural Vermont and commute to Burlington. We moved here from suburban DC. It's 1 gallon of gas to Burlinton (currently $4.15). It was more expensive for me to use public transportation to get to my job in DC. Note: I lived in Montgomery County, MD. No problems with the price yet. Needs to get much more expensive...when it does, let's hope the Democrats will actually invest in new energy this time.
ComradeRutherford
· 1 year ago
Back when Howard Dean was still the Governor of Vermont, he started a train running on existing heavy rail lines down the west side of Vermont from the largest town, Burlington, to the biggest college town, Middlebury. He also initiated inter-town bus service between Burlington and other major towns, like the capital, Montpelier.
Since then the conservative Vermonters have been bitching and moaning about how busses drive mostly empty, how they are paying for a service that only one hippie is ever going to use...
But now, the GOP governor is happily increasing funding to public transit, now that all the cool kids are doing it...
Busboy
· 1 year ago
The government "invests" in new energy thru tax breaks. That's why a dollar's worth of ethanol costs a dollar plus 18 cents to produce. The taxpayer picks up the tab.
ComradeRutherford
· 1 year ago
Oh, and my little Vermont town of 600 residents is seriously looking at state funding for a Park&Ride since so many commuters are car-pooling and parking their unused vehicles in the Town Clerk's lot!
interlude
· 1 year ago
i walk to work. i have a car and use it sparingly. but you are right, most Americans will be for public transit until gas prices come down. still, public transit would be nice.
unrepentant_expat
· 1 year ago
Portland Oregon has reintroduced the tram to the pleasure of many of its users. Cities are more charming without the isolation booth on wheels.
kiki
· 1 year ago
Sorry to change the subject but:
NEWS ALERT:
If anyone is interested here is a site for a YouTube video of Dennis Kucinich giving congress articles of impeachment against Bush today. Let's see where it will go.
He's actually STILL on C-SPAN! He started at 7:30 PM and it's 11:06 now, he's still reading, he's only at 30!
GO KUCINICH!!!
Impeach that bastard Acting President!
Restore the Rule of Law to this nation by holding the ringleader accountable for his terrible crimes. Impeach Bush NOW!!! Right after Cheney.
Õ¿Õ
· 1 year ago
There are over a billion people in Europe in roughly the same land mass as Texas.
kiki
· 1 year ago
I love Dennis. I hope Obama picks him for his VP. I wanted him for President.
devlzadvocate
· 1 year ago
In answer to the question, no. Americans never part with anything material that imparts a false sense of independence and security ( in this case, the limitless use of an automobile) unless they are forced to do so.
However, they willingly give up rights that provide real indepence and security without question.
Don't ask them to give up those creature comforts and status symbols. Freedom? Sure, take it.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
I agree with GG, it's pretty obvious that mass transit won't work in a lot of areas. It won't even work in my town of 75,000. People refuse to ride the trolley bus. It's almost free for seniors; yet they won't ride. What's up?
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
More than 93 percent of the US population lives in metropolitan areas.
devlzadvocate
· 1 year ago
Just a guess, but I don't think you'll see another Senator as a VP pick
hawkseye
· 1 year ago
agree
jr
· 1 year ago
"3 trillion dollar wars are free. Trolleys, trains and buses are Marxism"-repubs
hawkseye
· 1 year ago
I think the only way public transportation will succeed is if it's free or nearly so.
Andrew A. Gill
· 1 year ago
Funny. I was talking to Maj. Major the other day, and he was saying that the only way that public transportation would be free or nearly so is if it were successful.
hawkseye
· 1 year ago
I've heard discussions that make it sound like it wouldn't be impossible to sell the idea of tax-payer supported public transportation. Part of the argument is that it costs money to print tickets, sell and collect them. In Mexico City they were going to offer free Metro service, but they were afraid homeless people would live on it, so they charged a peso. And if roads are used less, we would save a great deal on road repair---to say nothing of savings resulting from clean air.
devlzadvocate
· 1 year ago
jr, that kinda sums up the thinking from my point of view. I feel that many Americans think that if they drive their own private vehicle, they are investing in the "independent, pioneeriing spirit of America". If you ride mass transit, you are paying for someone else's problem.
Andrew A. Gill
· 1 year ago
The US may not be set up for efficient public transportation, but that doesn't mean that in certain cases it isn't a good idea.
The lack of certain things like park and ride in shopping centers, or regular shuttles between city center and suburb centers mean that no one wants to use public transportation.
Fix some of the more egregious problems, and then see what happens. We just might get rid of some of those ugly car parks.
MNUSA
· 1 year ago
Public transit ridership in the Twin Cities is the highest in 25 years. The one light rail line here has ridership levels at the numbers predicted for the year 2020. Two more light rail lines are in the works. Yes, we'll take public transit. Bring back the trains.
cosanostradamus
· 1 year ago
. Mass transit is already being done, or studied in most US cities of any size. The problem is, more people live in the suburbs now, or suburbanized car-cities like LA; many of which are poorly designed for mass transit (and everything else). It may take $10/gal gas and further punitive measures to get them out of their cars. Actually, right now, they just don't have any options. But they've been given a free ride for too long. That has to change starting now.
Systems could be rolled out more quickly if the Feds committed to upgrading Interstate right-of-ways with mass transit routes. The land is already there, and some of the infrastructure. By putting mass transit hubs at the most heavily trafficked on & off ramps, there would be a built-in ridership. Adding park & rides or kiss & rides, with major shopping & entertainment outlets at the bigger stations would guarantee their success. Making the Interstates electronic toll roads could help pay for it. On an accelerated basis, it could be well along in a decade or less, if the will were there. The auto-orientation of business, government & consumers has to be realigned.
The way to sell this is to show how much tax money is going into automobile infrastructure, plus gas, oil, maintenance, repairs, insurance, accidents, lawsuits, deaths, DUIs, police activity, health issues, pollution, global warming, gridlock, parking, blight, wasted land, stress, time lost, inefficiency, wars and foreign intrigues, etc. All we ever hear is how these suburbanites don't want to pay for urban mass transit. If they knew how cheap and efficient it is, and how much it saves THEM, maybe they'd rethink. Until then, we urbanites will have to go on supporting their piggish lifestyles. I look forward to $10/gal gas.
Sometimes, I actually miss those funky old NYC subways. Never thought I'd say that! For the suburbs, we might have to offer wide-assed features, separate classes, kiddie sections, bar-cars and Starbucks on board. Let government build & subsidize it, but let the highest bidder run it for profit. Turn the trains into rolling theme parks, day care centers, movie houses, whatever: Malls on wheels, between rush hours. I'm sure rampant capitalism can come up with something. All aboard the Miley Cyrus Express to Cucamongaaaaaaa! .
Captain_America
· 1 year ago
I beg to differ, Chris. The only way to change social attitudes is with our WALLETS. And with gas pinching everyone, mass transit is looking better and better. I live in Los Angeles, the WORST when it comes to mass transit, yet for the first time i found myself eyeing bus schedules and metro stops to see what was available. The car-driven city is not sustainable. This is our first major wake up call. If we do not act now, the next wake up call will be devastating. Transit alternatives need to be set in motion. Americans waste so much time in the car.And now we pay for it dearly. I think it's time for a transit revolution...
shell
· 1 year ago
It all depends on supply and demand. I live in California, where the car RULES. Yes, commuters will add an hour to their commute time, just to keep from carpooling. I have lived it, I see it.
But. living in Sacramento, I also see something else. On the contract jobs I had with State of CA agencies, most of which were downtown, the light rails were jam-packed during rush hour. Why? NO PARKING DOWNTOWN. Well, there is SOME, but not much. And the parking meters only last 2 hours, tops. And cost $1 an hour. Even the die-hard car drivers give up and ride light rail. (Not even mentioning the cost of this, who can remember when the meter expires, and have time to walk 4 blocks to feed it again? And trust me, the meter maids are there to give you a ticket if your parking meter is expired.) During non-rush hour times, the light rail is just a hodge-podge of the elderly, those with no cars/driver's licenses, etc. But during rush hour, there are mostly suits and brief cases.
That is the key -- supply and demand. In this case, it was there was no supply of parking spots. Soon, it will be no supply of money for gas.
TomJoad
· 1 year ago
The problem goes SO deep already. I have been places in the US where there were physical BARRIERS along roads (not major highways) and no sidewalks...you literally could not walk along the road or anywhere near it to get to some places. This was in Oklahoma for one, back in the late 80's.
Also, the US style is terrible for conservation, or even convenience. My mom lived in a subdivision in Fla. where to get a loaf of bread she had to get in her car, drive for literally 20 minutes to get to a store, and 20 back. Here in norway there are often "kiosks", small privately owned places where you can buy bread, milk, etc. in neighborhoods.
Thinking...childless couples pay taxes that go to schools. A tax (for over a certain income) for public transportation would be fantastic, if it meant that the transport was free to use. The savings on ticket machines, security (still need security, but not all teh failsafes to keep unpaid riders off) would go a long way to it. I think if it were tax, it would end up being less than year or month long tickets (x 12) are to riders now. People would also feel "hey...I ALREADY paid for it...I ought to use it" and more riders would mean trains went more often, etc.
It would be a HUGE boon to tourists. It would promote mobility, and would get cars off the road. The system would have only one chance to get it right though. If they did a bad job, people would return to cars and be hard to pry them out again.
TomJoad
· 1 year ago
As for "big government", taxes, etc....
Do you know how much we could use for infrastructure, health, a better America if we gave up our addiction to war? Who the hell asked us to be the worlds policeman? The worlds LONE or top policeman? It's one thing, the right thing, in necessity, but not of choice. We have used SO much money on a monolithic military...so glorified war that we HAVE to have it, and look at the trouble a small country like Iraq gives us. Look what happened to the Soviet Union trying to lord over Afghanistan. Busted em.
Huge armys, hog-tied by non-conventional, insurgent based war. Two wars. Wast of resources (which by the way ALSO translates to lives, lives that could have been saved in the US, or made better), of lives, of productivity, of our democracy as the military-industrial complex and pharm and insurance and banks take over and tilt the whole game in their favor.
Our addiction to war is unhealthy.
sanfranguns
· 1 year ago
One of my favorite things about going to Europe is how easy it is to get from one place to the other on a train. My partner is Dutch and his mother lives in a small village on the German border with the Netherlands. During our 14 day trip, we were also able to spend 4 days in Paris and a couple in Amsterdam and it was easy and not really that expensive (given the dollar, everything's expensive - but I'm speaking relatively).
I would kill for a similar system in America. In fact, I hope that gas prices reach European levels so maybe there will be some collective desire for high speed trains in this country.
And by the way - for the person who brought up the suburbs, in Europe the train stops almost everywhere - including little towns and then you transfer in bigger towns. It's so easy and makes so much sense. I don't know why we can't embrace that here.
Mikki --SE Pennsylvania
· 1 year ago
American used to have better public transport than it does now. What killed it was government agencies at various levels giving in the the auto and tire makers, allowing them to buy up local trolley systems and tear up the tracks aand leave people dependent on cars (with rubber tires). Next came the federal government knuckling under to the trucking lobby and giving all the support to the over the roads means and strangling the railroads. Now of course that first part was in the late forties and early fifties when gas was 28¢ a gallon. Today the gas is topping $4 a gallon and the auto industry is no longer even interested in helping the masses solves the resultant problems. They balk and whine at the idea of being required to deliver improved gas mileage at a pitiful few mpg by 2012 or whenever. The American auto industry is woefully behind in developing and bringing to market vehicles with improved mileage and vehicles that use alternate sources of energy. They have never been really able to come to grips with the concept that people want smaller efficient cars; the industry learned nothing from the advent of the VW beetle and its amazing popularity. Government really seems to have shown no perceptible movement; to this very day it has it face planted firmly in the ass of corporations. For those of us who have had the opportunity to travel or live in Europe, it is amazing to see how well planned and managed public transport systems are a delight to behold as well as to ride on. But I fear, as some of you have already pointed out in this thread, that nothing will really be done in America until gas is $10 a gallon and then in many places they will have to start from scratch. And it will still take a great deal of time to puut into effect. Perhaps a new administration will start to plan from the point of view of what is good for the people rather than the corporations. As it turns out, what is good for General Motors is most decidedly NOT good for America!
LeftCoastOracle
· 1 year ago
Chris, if you're correct it looks as if California will have to lead the way, as usual. Californian's are moving toward a high speed train between the Bay Area and LA and most large cities have respectable public transit systems already.
The fact is you pay for transportation one way or another. Either up front or on the back end. For decades we've been playing and now it's time to pay. The environment can only hold out for so long and I believe our backs are against the wall. If we don't gin up public transit nationally the environment will pay the price. And ultimately that means everybody pays in health, wealth, and standard of living.
Frankly the oil speculators may have done us the favor of pushing us in the healthiest direction for the planet. I hope so because if we don't step up to the plate this time we are risking the demise of homo sapiens.
CVS20
· 7 months ago
No one wants to take responsibility for their own thoughts and actions. It's SO much easier on the psyche to blame "the Government" for our shortcomings. We use primarily individual transportation in this country because we are (by our own collective definition) "rugged individualists". No one in this country, Democrat, Republican, or Independent, will volunteer funds for the common good until they answer the question "What's in it for me?". US mentallity rejects almost all ideas which have a "payback" in excess of three to five years. The Japanese, on the other hand, tend to consider the question of the common good, and will risk ventures having "paybacks" over ten or more years. That is one reason the US has difficulty outshining Japan in most endeavors these days.
All Comments
I would gladly pay. Would much prefer my taxes to go to this than war.
Please, everyone, call your congressional representative and demand that they uphold the Rule of Law. Get the Judiciary to take this up and at least discuss it.
I hope...
People who live in the sticks should have to pay that extra transportation cost.
Fuck them if they want to live in the woods.
more on the scary, terrorist fist bump:
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2008/06/...
Since then the conservative Vermonters have been bitching and moaning about how busses drive mostly empty, how they are paying for a service that only one hippie is ever going to use...
But now, the GOP governor is happily increasing funding to public transit, now that all the cool kids are doing it...
but you are right, most Americans will be for public transit until gas prices come down. still, public transit would be nice.
NEWS ALERT:
If anyone is interested here is a site for a YouTube video of Dennis Kucinich giving congress articles of impeachment against Bush today. Let's see where it will go.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Kucinich_presents...
GO KUCINICH!!!
Impeach that bastard Acting President!
Restore the Rule of Law to this nation by holding the ringleader accountable for his terrible crimes. Impeach Bush NOW!!! Right after Cheney.
However, they willingly give up rights that provide real indepence and security without question.
Don't ask them to give up those creature comforts and status symbols. Freedom? Sure, take it.
It won't even work in my town of 75,000. People refuse to ride the trolley bus. It's almost free for seniors; yet they won't ride. What's up?
The lack of certain things like park and ride in shopping centers, or regular shuttles between city center and suburb centers mean that no one wants to use public transportation.
Fix some of the more egregious problems, and then see what happens. We just might get rid of some of those ugly car parks.
Mass transit is already being done, or studied in most US cities of any size. The problem is, more people live in the suburbs now, or suburbanized car-cities like LA; many of which are poorly designed for mass transit (and everything else). It may take $10/gal gas and further punitive measures to get them out of their cars. Actually, right now, they just don't have any options. But they've been given a free ride for too long. That has to change starting now.
Systems could be rolled out more quickly if the Feds committed to upgrading Interstate right-of-ways with mass transit routes. The land is already there, and some of the infrastructure. By putting mass transit hubs at the most heavily trafficked on & off ramps, there would be a built-in ridership. Adding park & rides or kiss & rides, with major shopping & entertainment outlets at the bigger stations would guarantee their success. Making the Interstates electronic toll roads could help pay for it. On an accelerated basis, it could be well along in a decade or less, if the will were there. The auto-orientation of business, government & consumers has to be realigned.
The way to sell this is to show how much tax money is going into automobile infrastructure, plus gas, oil, maintenance, repairs, insurance, accidents, lawsuits, deaths, DUIs, police activity, health issues, pollution, global warming, gridlock, parking, blight, wasted land, stress, time lost, inefficiency, wars and foreign intrigues, etc. All we ever hear is how these suburbanites don't want to pay for urban mass transit. If they knew how cheap and efficient it is, and how much it saves THEM, maybe they'd rethink. Until then, we urbanites will have to go on supporting their piggish lifestyles. I look forward to $10/gal gas.
Sometimes, I actually miss those funky old NYC subways. Never thought I'd say that! For the suburbs, we might have to offer wide-assed features, separate classes, kiddie sections, bar-cars and Starbucks on board. Let government build & subsidize it, but let the highest bidder run it for profit. Turn the trains into rolling theme parks, day care centers, movie houses, whatever: Malls on wheels, between rush hours. I'm sure rampant capitalism can come up with something. All aboard the Miley Cyrus Express to Cucamongaaaaaaa!
.
But. living in Sacramento, I also see something else. On the contract jobs I had with State of CA agencies, most of which were downtown, the light rails were jam-packed during rush hour. Why? NO PARKING DOWNTOWN. Well, there is SOME, but not much. And the parking meters only last 2 hours, tops. And cost $1 an hour. Even the die-hard car drivers give up and ride light rail. (Not even mentioning the cost of this, who can remember when the meter expires, and have time to walk 4 blocks to feed it again? And trust me, the meter maids are there to give you a ticket if your parking meter is expired.) During non-rush hour times, the light rail is just a hodge-podge of the elderly, those with no cars/driver's licenses, etc. But during rush hour, there are mostly suits and brief cases.
That is the key -- supply and demand. In this case, it was there was no supply of parking spots. Soon, it will be no supply of money for gas.
Also, the US style is terrible for conservation, or even convenience. My mom lived in a subdivision in Fla. where to get a loaf of bread she had to get in her car, drive for literally 20 minutes to get to a store, and 20 back. Here in norway there are often "kiosks", small privately owned places where you can buy bread, milk, etc. in neighborhoods.
Thinking...childless couples pay taxes that go to schools. A tax (for over a certain income) for public transportation would be fantastic, if it meant that the transport was free to use. The savings on ticket machines, security (still need security, but not all teh failsafes to keep unpaid riders off) would go a long way to it. I think if it were tax, it would end up being less than year or month long tickets (x 12) are to riders now. People would also feel "hey...I ALREADY paid for it...I ought to use it" and more riders would mean trains went more often, etc.
It would be a HUGE boon to tourists. It would promote mobility, and would get cars off the road. The system would have only one chance to get it right though. If they did a bad job, people would return to cars and be hard to pry them out again.
Do you know how much we could use for infrastructure, health, a better America if we gave up our addiction to war? Who the hell asked us to be the worlds policeman? The worlds LONE or top policeman? It's one thing, the right thing, in necessity, but not of choice. We have used SO much money on a monolithic military...so glorified war that we HAVE to have it, and look at the trouble a small country like Iraq gives us. Look what happened to the Soviet Union trying to lord over Afghanistan. Busted em.
Huge armys, hog-tied by non-conventional, insurgent based war. Two wars.
Wast of resources (which by the way ALSO translates to lives, lives that could have been saved in the US, or made better), of lives, of productivity, of our democracy as the military-industrial complex and pharm and insurance and banks take over and tilt the whole game in their favor.
Our addiction to war is unhealthy.
I would kill for a similar system in America. In fact, I hope that gas prices reach European levels so maybe there will be some collective desire for high speed trains in this country.
And by the way - for the person who brought up the suburbs, in Europe the train stops almost everywhere - including little towns and then you transfer in bigger towns. It's so easy and makes so much sense. I don't know why we can't embrace that here.
They balk and whine at the idea of being required to deliver improved gas mileage at a pitiful few mpg by 2012 or whenever. The American auto industry is woefully behind in developing and bringing to market vehicles with improved mileage and vehicles that use alternate sources of energy. They have never been really able to come to grips with the concept that people want smaller efficient cars; the industry learned nothing from the advent of the VW beetle and its amazing popularity. Government really seems to have shown no perceptible movement; to this very day it has it face planted firmly in the ass of corporations.
For those of us who have had the opportunity to travel or live in Europe, it is amazing to see how well planned and managed public transport systems are a delight to behold as well as to ride on. But I fear, as some of you have already pointed out in this thread, that nothing will really be done in America until gas is $10 a gallon and then in many places they will have to start from scratch. And it will still take a great deal of time to puut into effect.
Perhaps a new administration will start to plan from the point of view of what is good for the people rather than the corporations. As it turns out, what is good for General Motors is most decidedly NOT good for America!
The fact is you pay for transportation one way or another. Either up front or on the back end. For decades we've been playing and now it's time to pay. The environment can only hold out for so long and I believe our backs are against the wall. If we don't gin up public transit nationally the environment will pay the price. And ultimately that means everybody pays in health, wealth, and standard of living.
Frankly the oil speculators may have done us the favor of pushing us in the healthiest direction for the planet. I hope so because if we don't step up to the plate this time we are risking the demise of homo sapiens.
The Japanese, on the other hand, tend to consider the question of the common good, and will risk ventures having "paybacks" over ten or more years. That is one reason the US has difficulty outshining Japan in most endeavors these days.