AMERICAblog: Does anyone really think we're alone?
DavidinPS
· 7 months ago
Life of some sort in some form somewhere in the universe? The statistics favor it. Intelligent? Who knows? Visitations? I'll need evidence. Solid evidence. Not anecdotal, conspiracy laced, Erik von Daniken, Roswellian tin hat goofiness.
ColJack
· 7 months ago
Why should we think those other civilizations are different from our own - likely to self-destruct before achieving intra-galactic travel?
MarxMarvelous
· 7 months ago
More stars than grains of sand on the earth. TO pick up one grain and say that life can only live circling this grain, seems naive. I believe in alien life. Whether or not we've been visited is a whole different question.
But you have to wonder, why would the galactic community invite the human race to join them? We can't even exist by ourselves, on our own tiny planet without murdering and killing each other on a massive scale.
At this point in time, any alien life is much safer just watching us from afar.
Although I wouldn't put it past the politicians to try and scare us with some alien threat psyop. Big money for MIC is protecting us from the evil space aliens. They're dying to militarize space. There's a youtube interview of Dr. Edgar Mitchell that's been online for a couple months in which he states that we've definitely been visited, and that the governments covering it up. He was the last man to walk on the moon I believe.
DavidinPS
· 7 months ago
And what is Dr. Mitchell's evidence?
MarxMarvelous
· 7 months ago
I don't think he gives anything concrete, which I why I lean towards a psyop. There was also an astronaut that went nuts a couple months ago. It involved diapers, kidnapping, and other weekend activities. :-)
Jophus
· 7 months ago
Eloquently said with the grains of sand, Marx. I believe I've heard that phrase thrown around a few times, but it really gives you a visual to put things into perspective.
I've never thought about the business aspect of other intelligent life. That's fascinating.. My guess is that if there were e.t. species that could land on earth, that corporations would be out of business. It would be a threat to government as well. They would be so much more advanced, that the things we are trying have been attempted in their history. They would have the gift of hindsight as well as the technology to wipe out any company in competition. (*upon looking this over, I don't know how to word my thoughts on wiping out corporations -- just that it would be a viable threat).
We have found water on other celestial bodies in our own system, it isn't just likely, it is probable that there is life on other planets. To think that we are the most advanced is like thinking you are the smartest person in any room you walk into. It is terribly arrogant and a disservice to yourself, because even if someone else isn't more intelligent everyone there has a different experience you can learn from.
It seems to me that not allowing for the possibility of more advanced life is a very right wing argument.
threadmonitor
· 7 months ago
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kh7463
· 7 months ago
Not only do I think we're not alone, I think if anyone else ever saw the way some people act on this planet, they'd turn aroudn and go back home.
JamesR
· 7 months ago
But not before they draw on some grain fields and buzz some rednecks and military.
pricknick
· 7 months ago
Of course we're not alone. But until we understand what's under our feet we should limit space exploration to robots and minimal humans. Fuck all of those who think our life is in the stars before we know what we have.
Jophus
· 7 months ago
For sure.... How much of the ocean is undiscovered? How much of our own bodies do we not even know about? I have huge issues with NASA.
Lets just send some Cylons out there to do it all for us.
Indigo
· 7 months ago
I don't know. Another take on conscious life on earth suggests that we're an evolutionary dead end. Even so, it'd be fun if LGMs existed for real, it'd be even more fun if the Galactic Emperor arrives to claim our planet for his empire and best of all, if he names me Planetary Governor, I promise to be the best Planetary Governor money can buy.
dacnova
· 7 months ago
Of course we're not alone But the Vulcans won't approach us shtile the Christians stilll have any power.
BC2
· 7 months ago
I have no firsthand evidence, myself. Although, I have had 2 instances of UFO sighting in my 51 years (Just because I didn't know what they were is no reason to conclude they were alien or inter-dimensional). If there is life and intelligence beyond our planet, I wouldn't be surprised in the least.
vkobaya
· 7 months ago
Oh, no doubt there is life beyond earth. There are billions of stars just in the Milky Way galaxy and tens of billion of planets. And there are probably a billion galaxies out there. Has to be life on other planets. Extremely unlikely that any have star travel as that would require mastery of unimaginable amounts of energy. If they to have intersteller travel, they have technology unimaginably beyond us and are so advanced above us that they would consider us to little more than bacteria. No, I doubt we have ever had contact or will ever have contact. And, if we did, they would probably find the equivalent of Black Flag or Raid to spray around themselves.
benb
· 7 months ago
If it turns out that we are the only Life in the Universe then I will believe in God.
Christopher Millsap
· 7 months ago
Actually, I'm pretty sure we are alone, at least at this point in time. I don't say this for religious reasons, I say this because of Fermi's Paradox, if there is anyone else in the galaxy, why haven't we seen them?
And an alien race capable of interstellar travel could easily choose NOT to be discovered. Our own scientists are working on methods of invisibility, primitive as our efforts may be. How do you know there isn't an alien standing next to you right now?
Moderation
· 7 months ago
Because of the nature of the speed of light, and the rest of physics as we know it? Plus, as was pointed out elsewhere, if they can achieve FTL travel, we would be so beneath them as to be laughable.
If, for example, the concepts akin to those in Dune are most correct, FTL is something like: With enough energy, you can transport from point A to point B with zero time. However, they would also need enormous calculating powers to account for the very movement of the points in time/space as the universe continues to expand. If this is the kind of space travel physics eventually dictates is the most effective for long distances, then finding out star system amidst the countless stars amidst the countless galaxies would be staggeringly small. In which case, we are so low on the list of places to explore, it would be like TRYING to find a single atom on our planet with a specific proton, and trying to look at the makeup of that proton. Moreover, if that sort of travel is true, and m-theory is correct, who is to say that such travel cannot also take such a species to other universes. In which case, its like trying to find that lone atom without even knowing which galaxy to start in, much less what planet.
If FTL is more like Star Wars/Trek, then it would STILL take months or years to reach other civilized worlds, and each species/group of species would be limited to relatively small regions of space. Plus, they'd likely have the tech to hide themselves, and would use forms of communication we simply do not use yet (i.e. no radio, but some sort of point-to-point transfer of information, or simply some other, slower principle of communication that they needn't worry about in terms of time taken to communicate, as they've medically achieved immortality, or close enough).
Plus, there is what Sagan brought up, where you must also account for a significant percentage of intelligent life wiping itself out, either before, OR after achieving extraplanetary colonization and exploration.
Then we also have large-scale warfare between species, where the fallout would be unrecognizable to us as anything more than natural phenomenon we cannot yet explain.
Not to mention, this is merely accounting for carbon-based life. Not potential other means by which complex natural patterns lead towards self-replicating patterns which evolve into intelligence (such as energy, or massive-scale life existing beyond our conception, or life evolving under different sets of physics than our universe's, and exploring our universe in the same manner we explore our oceans, and so on).
Finally, some intelligent life might be quite content NOT to explore beyond its own sphere. Perhaps something like dolphins, only much more advanced, intelligent beyond us, yet utterly fulfilled with their lifestyle such that they have no need for or drive towards pursuits beyond arts, philosophy, medicine, and so on (not on a scale that would grip their species as a whole, or at the least not yet).
There are SO many variables involved, it is really quite mind-boggling.
kwajboy
· 7 months ago
Alas, while life in the universe is almost certainly quite common, intelligent life might be far, far less so. Life appeared on Earth extremely quickly, just a few hundred million years after its formation. Intelligent life took 4.5 billion years to show up. If intelligent life were common, it's pretty reasonable to think that we would have seen it by now (google "Fermi Paradox"). Also, while there may be lots of stars in the galaxy, the number is finite - about 10^11. If you start checking off all the things you need for intelligent life, then it only takes 11 or 12 things that have a 10% chance of occurring before you only expect one civilization in the Milky Way. Frank Drake was the first person to do this, and his estimate was roughly 10 active civilizations we might see at any time in the entire Galaxy. Given our current knowledge of extra-solar planets, he was incredibly optimistic on at least one front - the number of habitable planets per star. Circular orbits have turned out to be, surprisingly, quite rare - most planets are on highly elliptical orbits, which would lead to huge extremes of heat and cold. Of course, we have no idea what many of the other terms in the Drake equation should be, but given we haven't yet seen any extra-terrestrial intelligences, there's a surprisingly high chance we may be the only ones in the Milky Way. As a scientist, I really hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be shocked if we're effectively alone in the galaxy. Of course, the universe is a far, far larger place, but it would be *much* harder to see evidence of ET's in other galaxies.
Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas
· 7 months ago
There is intelligent life on earth? I had no idea.
SCLiberal
· 7 months ago
LOL, that was my first thought as well! To my way of thinking, intelligence means a peaceful coexistence and cooperation. We are a long way from that.
A_N
· 7 months ago
kwajboy I agree with what youve said, but i also agree with an earlier post here that suggested IF an intelligent species from outside Earth (and outside the Milky Way) had the technology to travel here, then such an intelligent and technologically advanced species would also have the ability to hide themselves from us. They would be perfectly capable of hiding themselves while visiting our planet as well as preventing us from seeing their spacecraft and homeworlds.
So I believe that there is absolutely no way for any of us to be sure about the question.
Mitchell is barking mad delusional and has zero credibility. He first announced that Apollo astronauts had been told about alien visits covered up by government on Kerrang! radio in London. (Googling 'Kerrang Mitchell' brings up relevant links).
BTW, he was not the last or first on the moon, but middling. It's like he feels invisible and wants attention.
blueoysterjoe
· 7 months ago
Vkobaya says:
"And there are probably a billion galaxies out there. Has to be life on other planets."
Unless, of course, only 1 in 1 trillion galaxies has life on it.
That's the problem. We think, my gosh, there's just GOTTA be other life out there, because, like, the universe is so utterly big! But we really have no proof of that. At all.
It's wrong for some people to believe, with little evidence, that we (earthlings) are the only ones, ordained by God. But it is just as wrong for other people to believe, with little evidence, that we are ones of many. The universe is a large place that we all fill with our ideas, as we are all sure we are absolutely right about them ...
I am just afraid that as many people believe in aliens because they hate christian orthodoxy as those who do not believe in aliens because they love christian orthodoxy. We really don't have any basis whatsoever to determine the make up as the universe and all that we can make is pure narcissism, creating the universe in our own individual image.
patmallory
· 7 months ago
If intelligent beings have visited us, they would have had to have the ability to travel for light years. Given that amazing feat, why has there never been a reported UFO sighting in the morning hours?
I did see a few strange things. Two stationary lights that blinked out, and later came back on in the same spot in the sky. There was no craft in that spot other than the lights and it was just after the sun went down and still light. So, anything would have still been visible. Next morning I woke up to sonic booms and high flying jets you could see overhead. Very interesting place. One of the ladies at the place said she had seen a craft. That seemed to be all she wanted to say as if she didn't want to talk about it. By the look she gave I didn't question her further. Also, anyone who believes in God should believe in beings "out there"... After all isn't God from space? "Heaven" was interpreted from a word meaning "sky"
triple7s
· 7 months ago
Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio, has a reputation of having housed UFO debris for many decades. In around 1973, a senior researcher from the program came forward to do live radio interviews in the Ohio, Michigan area. After one day of interviews explaining some of his research, he was suddenly removed to a "mental facility" by the FBI, for his own safety. His colleagues came forward to say that he was sane and well. Never heard any more after that. That's all I can remember about that episode.
sandiegopete
· 7 months ago
this has been a topic that has interested me for years....if you read Disclosure by Greer (and take that with a HUGE grain of salt) along with Supernatural by Hancock and the studies on DMT out of the Univ of New Mexico as well as some of the recent work regarding early pre-history mythology and the building of ancient sites like Machu Pichu (Wilson, Ryne) you will begin to see that there are many, many possibilities for alternate theories that most people can't begin to comprehend; or also closed off to based on myopic, traditional rreligious thought (on that note, read the book of ezekial for some of his visions of smoking chariots and you will see a trend throughout mankinds recorded experience)
this isn't to say that we're being visited by aliens, but that we, as homo sapiens, are basically cybernetic organisms and our personal OS is controlled/determined by our genetic code (dna)
the studies on dmt and hallucagens (sp?) used by shamans are amazing and show that our mind and subconscious are much more powerful than we are aware of and are tied into a realm of greater consciousness
but then again I live in SoCal where people think along these lines and many people out there can't begin to grasp (or be open to) some of these concepts
it's all physics, baby and in this case quantum physics. just have an open mind and be willing to accept alternative theories
All Comments
Intelligent? Who knows?
Visitations? I'll need evidence. Solid evidence. Not anecdotal, conspiracy laced, Erik von Daniken, Roswellian tin hat goofiness.
But you have to wonder, why would the galactic community invite the human race to join them? We can't even exist by ourselves, on our own tiny planet without murdering and killing each other on a massive scale.
At this point in time, any alien life is much safer just watching us from afar.
Although I wouldn't put it past the politicians to try and scare us with some alien threat psyop. Big money for MIC is protecting us from the evil space aliens. They're dying to militarize space.
There's a youtube interview of Dr. Edgar Mitchell that's been online for a couple months in which he states that we've definitely been visited, and that the governments covering it up. He was the last man to walk on the moon I believe.
I've never thought about the business aspect of other intelligent life. That's fascinating.. My guess is that if there were e.t. species that could land on earth, that corporations would be out of business. It would be a threat to government as well. They would be so much more advanced, that the things we are trying have been attempted in their history. They would have the gift of hindsight as well as the technology to wipe out any company in competition. (*upon looking this over, I don't know how to word my thoughts on wiping out corporations -- just that it would be a viable threat).
We have found water on other celestial bodies in our own system, it isn't just likely, it is probable that there is life on other planets. To think that we are the most advanced is like thinking you are the smartest person in any room you walk into. It is terribly arrogant and a disservice to yourself, because even if someone else isn't more intelligent everyone there has a different experience you can learn from.
It seems to me that not allowing for the possibility of more advanced life is a very right wing argument.
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But until we understand what's under our feet we should limit space exploration to robots and minimal humans.
Fuck all of those who think our life is in the stars before we know what we have.
Lets just send some Cylons out there to do it all for us.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_Paradox
Just my $.02
Chris
http://animals.about.com/od/conservationnews/tp...
If they were there, why didn't we see them before? Irrelevent, they were there.
And an alien race capable of interstellar travel could easily choose NOT to be discovered. Our own scientists are working on methods of invisibility, primitive as our efforts may be. How do you know there isn't an alien standing next to you right now?
If, for example, the concepts akin to those in Dune are most correct, FTL is something like: With enough energy, you can transport from point A to point B with zero time. However, they would also need enormous calculating powers to account for the very movement of the points in time/space as the universe continues to expand. If this is the kind of space travel physics eventually dictates is the most effective for long distances, then finding out star system amidst the countless stars amidst the countless galaxies would be staggeringly small. In which case, we are so low on the list of places to explore, it would be like TRYING to find a single atom on our planet with a specific proton, and trying to look at the makeup of that proton. Moreover, if that sort of travel is true, and m-theory is correct, who is to say that such travel cannot also take such a species to other universes. In which case, its like trying to find that lone atom without even knowing which galaxy to start in, much less what planet.
If FTL is more like Star Wars/Trek, then it would STILL take months or years to reach other civilized worlds, and each species/group of species would be limited to relatively small regions of space. Plus, they'd likely have the tech to hide themselves, and would use forms of communication we simply do not use yet (i.e. no radio, but some sort of point-to-point transfer of information, or simply some other, slower principle of communication that they needn't worry about in terms of time taken to communicate, as they've medically achieved immortality, or close enough).
Plus, there is what Sagan brought up, where you must also account for a significant percentage of intelligent life wiping itself out, either before, OR after achieving extraplanetary colonization and exploration.
Then we also have large-scale warfare between species, where the fallout would be unrecognizable to us as anything more than natural phenomenon we cannot yet explain.
Not to mention, this is merely accounting for carbon-based life. Not potential other means by which complex natural patterns lead towards self-replicating patterns which evolve into intelligence (such as energy, or massive-scale life existing beyond our conception, or life evolving under different sets of physics than our universe's, and exploring our universe in the same manner we explore our oceans, and so on).
Finally, some intelligent life might be quite content NOT to explore beyond its own sphere. Perhaps something like dolphins, only much more advanced, intelligent beyond us, yet utterly fulfilled with their lifestyle such that they have no need for or drive towards pursuits beyond arts, philosophy, medicine, and so on (not on a scale that would grip their species as a whole, or at the least not yet).
There are SO many variables involved, it is really quite mind-boggling.
So I believe that there is absolutely no way for any of us to be sure about the question.
www.sitchin.com
BTW, he was not the last or first on the moon, but middling. It's like he feels invisible and wants attention.
"And there are probably a billion galaxies out there. Has to be life on other planets."
Unless, of course, only 1 in 1 trillion galaxies has life on it.
That's the problem. We think, my gosh, there's just GOTTA be other life out there, because, like, the universe is so utterly big! But we really have no proof of that. At all.
It's wrong for some people to believe, with little evidence, that we (earthlings) are the only ones, ordained by God. But it is just as wrong for other people to believe, with little evidence, that we are ones of many. The universe is a large place that we all fill with our ideas, as we are all sure we are absolutely right about them ...
I am just afraid that as many people believe in aliens because they hate christian orthodoxy as those who do not believe in aliens because they love christian orthodoxy. We really don't have any basis whatsoever to determine the make up as the universe and all that we can make is pure narcissism, creating the universe in our own individual image.
have the ability to travel for light years. Given that amazing
feat, why has there never been a reported UFO sighting in the morning hours?
http://www.littlealeinn.com/
I did see a few strange things. Two stationary lights that blinked out, and later came back on in the same spot in the sky. There was no craft in that spot other than the lights and it was just after the sun went down and still light. So, anything would have still been visible. Next morning I woke up to sonic booms and high flying jets you could see overhead. Very interesting place. One of the ladies at the place said she had seen a craft. That seemed to be all she wanted to say as if she didn't want to talk about it. By the look she gave I didn't question her further. Also, anyone who believes in God should believe in beings "out there"... After all isn't God from space? "Heaven" was interpreted from a word meaning "sky"
this isn't to say that we're being visited by aliens, but that we, as homo sapiens, are basically cybernetic organisms and our personal OS is controlled/determined by our genetic code (dna)
the studies on dmt and hallucagens (sp?) used by shamans are amazing and show that our mind and subconscious are much more powerful than we are aware of and are tied into a realm of greater consciousness
but then again I live in SoCal where people think along these lines and many people out there can't begin to grasp (or be open to) some of these concepts
it's all physics, baby and in this case quantum physics. just have an open mind and be willing to accept alternative theories