DISQUS

Butch1 · 5 months ago

They all have names and they need to be held accountable for this police action. They know what they were doing and they wanted to scare the gays to let them know nothing has changed in forty years.

SD_Dave · 5 months ago

Hopefully the perpetrators can and WILL be charged as hate crimes (including those who called for the raid.)

cowboyneok · 5 months ago

Glad it happened in Texas, for that reason, because if it happened in Oklahoma it wouldn't have been considered a "hate crime" because "hate crimes" in Oklahoma don't include the LGBT community.

Butch1 · 5 months ago

I hope so too, but police have that clause where it is very difficult to bring them up on charges when they say they were doing their job or they make up and incident claiming they were provoked or claim an anonymous phone call complaint. That one has been their M.O. for a long time. And apparently it must work since they continue to use it. I do not trust them one bit and it is important to remember that they are not your friends.

Jophus · 5 months ago

That is peanuts. I want Obama to tell me why I can't drink at a bar. Our fierce advocate should have a few choice words. I want heads to roll. Not just the guy cracking skulls.

Lets all keep in mind that police are agents of the government, and are charged with enforcing federal law as well as state law. This happened on the watch of higher ups, outside of Texas as well.

SD_Dave · 5 months ago

Unfortunately, the Texas public intoxication laws are written as follows:

"Public Intoxication" means:

A person commits an offense if the person appears in a public place while intoxicated to the degree that the person may endanger the person or another.

"Intoxicated" is defined as:

1. not having the normal use of mental or
physical faculties by reason of the introduction
of alcohol, controlled substance, a drug, a
dangerous drug, a combination of two or more
of those substances, or any other substance
into the body;
or

2. having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or
more.

http://www.tabctrainingclass.com/texas-intoxica...
-----
Now don't get me wrong, I don't agree with this law, and I'm NOT by any means justifying the actions of these low-lives that refer to themselves as "public servants," and CLEARLY am outraged at their cracking skulls etc, but this is NOT a federal issue, it is an issue with the State and local agencies.

BUT the way it appears is that THIS bar was targeted for a specific reason, and since this bar has only been open for about a week, it is safe to say that this bar was most likely targeted because it is a gay bar and would therefore constitute a "hate crime" as it is meant to terrorize an entire group, and should garner the title of Stonewall 2.0, without the riots (even though there rightfully should be some rioting.)

Jophus · 5 months ago

Any lawyers out there know if this applies to citizens in non-public, private property?

If you work as lawyer in Texas please donate your time.

SD_Dave · 5 months ago

I'm hoping the ACLU and GLAD will get involved.

Jophus · 5 months ago

ACLU Texas: (817) 392-4270

GLAD: (617) 426-1350
gladlaw@glad.org

SD_Dave · 5 months ago

I'll be calling in the morning. Thank you for posting this! :)

UncleBucky · 5 months ago

I think the ACLU Texas number should be:

http://www.aclutx.org/contact.php
(512) 478-7300

Cheers.

Jophus · 5 months ago

I still want Obama to tell me he is my fucking advocate again. I want him to look directly into camera so I can see his eyes. Tell me I am better off while he is in office......

I want him to look into Matthew Shepard's mom's eyes........ You know what I don't even need him to say anything. I just want that mother fucker to look into her eyes, and take what ever reaction she gives.

Butch1 · 5 months ago

Let's hope so, this was no coinscidence.

SD_Dave · 5 months ago

Agreed!

propolice2 · 5 months ago

"Called for the raid." Wow. You mean, like the owner of the bar, who said it was "no problem" for the police to come in and inspect? And I assume you mean the "hate crime" of upholding the laws of the state of Texas by arresting people who were clearly intoxicated. I can't even believe that some of you take yourselves seriously. No wonder the cops struggle to recruit. I certainly wouldn't want to be a cop and deal with the ignorance that you lemmings spew every day.

SD_Dave · 5 months ago

Hey dumbass! I'm sure the bar owner called for the police to come in and raid the bar - use some common sense asshole! IF, and that is a big IF, the people were "clearly intoxicated" why are ALL - not just a few but ALLLLLLLLLLL - eye-witness accounts in stark contrast of the cops.

propolice2 · 5 months ago

Glad that you need to call names in order to feel vindicated. Helps your credibility. Since you seem to have misread my remarks, let me reiterate that the police were at the bar last week, they spoke with the owner, the owner basically told them to come back anytime, and so they did. That's all covered in their press release...but I do understand that it's easier to get inflamed here than check facts elsewhere. You might want to start reading more accounts, too...I should have kept track, but I think I've seen about a half dozen comments now from people who were there who are saying that it was no big deal.

SD_Dave · 5 months ago

You mean like hurling insults like "ignorant lemmings?" Hmmmmm, sounds like we have a hypocrite on our hands here.

propolice2 · 5 months ago

Wow. Who CARES that they were gay? The police sure don't. They were there on a SCHEDULED inspection that the owner knew about and that was a follow-up to a previous visit several days prior. It wasn't a scare tactic. It was a "let's keep drunk people from injuring themselves and others and or getting into cars and driving" scenario. Jeez. How scary.

Butch1 · 5 months ago

Evidently the police do. How do you know they didn't care? Please spare me your BS. Your story of the event certainly is one of the stories coming from the police. Another story was told by a policeman that they had received a complaint from a disgruntled ex-employee bartender who said they were serving patrons beyond when they should have stopped. Interesting, that the bar has only been open for a week so who's lying about this story? Do you think a bartender was fired within a week of it being open and coming into Gay Pride Week and a 40th anniversary celebration of Stonewall? Replacing a bartender that quickly would be bad management. Let's make the police say who their source is. Let's ask the owner of the bard if he has fired anyone within the timeframe the police officer claimed the complaint came in to their hands. Again, this smells fishy and eventually the truth will come out.

propolice2 · 5 months ago

Great. Glad to know that the definition of BS is anything that doesn't agree with your view. In any case, the police statements that they've put out don't say anything about being there because an ex-employee complained. They do say that they were there on Thursday, issued several violations on that day, and discussed with the owner that they were coming back on Saturday. Your information is from an eyewitness, and we've already discussed that the various eyewitness accounts don't even mesh with each other.

Butch1 · 5 months ago

" In any case, the police statements that they've put out don't say anything about being there because an ex-employee complained. "
==============================
Of course they don't, it was a lie to give them an excuse.
==============================
"...we've already discussed that the various eyewitness accounts don't even mesh with each other.
================================

Eyewitness accounts never mesh, you should know that. Witness see different events happening all at the same time.

Scott · 5 months ago

I'm hoping the bar had video surveillance cameras, so that may prove whether or not the patron "groped" an officer. I seriously doubt that happened - especially if he was aware that he could be targeted and arrested right there.

Butch1 · 5 months ago

If it were just one grope, why were there so many officers ready to pounce on everyone unless this whole thing was planned from the beginning?! They meant to ruin everyone's celebration of Stonewall and what better way for the police to do it than recreate the terror they created 40 years ago? Too bad there wasn't a riot this time around. The younger gays have lost the backbones that their former generation of gays had for fighting back when oppressed. We should be tired of this treatment or is it only the older gays who are really angered over this? Hopefully, this police action will charge the younger generation into standing up for theirs and our rights.

Jophus · 5 months ago

John and Joe please get in contact with the owners and promoters if they aren't on tv. PLEASE.

watchington · 5 months ago

NOW will you chattering bloggista pussies get it? It is time to RIOT!

trinu · 5 months ago

Do any of the lawyers here know anything about the possibility of Federal civil rights charges being brought?

Jophus · 5 months ago

ACLU Texas: (817) 392-4270

GLAD: (617) 426-1350
gladlaw@glad.org

UncleBucky · 5 months ago

Hi,

I think that the correct ACLU Texas number is:

http://www.aclutx.org/contact.php
(512) 478-7300

Cheers.

SusieQ · 5 months ago

(817) is Ft Worth area code; (512) is Austin.

Jophus · 5 months ago

I ran out of numbers on my faggot fucking phone tree. What's the number to this piece of shit police precinct?

cowboyneok · 5 months ago

I'm just angry I'm not at our condo in Dallas because my ass would be PROTESTING IN THE EFFING STREET in Fort Worth!!!!!!!!!!!

SICK TO DEATH of this crap! EQUAL RIGHTS NOW!

I think we need to start making some NOISE and by G-d do some Civil Disobedience NOW!

Jophus · 5 months ago

I'm willing to hop on a plane tomorrow for an organized protest. We've got to be unstoppable. Enough of the god damned paper pushing!

cowboyneok · 5 months ago

I think we need to have NATIONWIDE protests. Its just one insult after another... It has to be answered. We need some sort of civil disobedience to let America know its not the status quo anymore.

Heather Sheridan · 5 months ago

My partner and I would be there but we are saving every penny right now to move to Syracuse. If there is a demonstration here in Missouri we will be there.

Gary Young · 5 months ago

And now I see that "dozens" protested tonight. Dozens? Where is the local outrage??? My hate for Texas and most Texans continues.

cowboyneok · 5 months ago

If I had been in Dallas, I would have DRIVEN UP THERE, and I EXPECT the LGBT community to MOBILIZE and DO IT! The LGBT needs to start engaging in civil disobedience and protests NOW! There needs to be more protests following this initial one! In fact, I think there needs to be NATIONAL protests. It has been just one insult after another. We need to start acting on what Harvey Milk said, "We've got to give them hope!" It is up to us to give hope to the next generation of LGBT!

caphillprof · 5 months ago

This is precisely the reason that I think gay marches should be moved around: Salt Lake City, Fort Worth

You got to hit these folk where they live.

cowboyneok · 5 months ago

Yes, you are right, caphillprof! Absolutely!

SD_Dave · 5 months ago

In all fairness Gary, it's somewhat difficult to spread the word that quickly, especially about a protest. The word just started to spread around the blogosphere around 3 PM (pacific time - 5 PM Central,) so chances are the next one, which I've been told is being planned, will be much bigger.

fuzzygruf · 5 months ago

I forgot that everything in Texas moves slower and they don't have internet access. Michael Piazza, queen bee of the Cathedral of Hope in Dallas, made a statement earlier in the day. Why didn't he mobilize his "thousands" of church members?

jenjen64 · 5 months ago

I currently live in TX (Corpus Christi) and hate TX, too, although the geography and parks are beautiful. We don't have any problems in any of the gay bars down here...as a matter of fact on the rare occasion that I do go out I prefer a particular gay club here because everyone there is laid back and no one bothers anyone. (and it's the only one here that plays electronica) I have noticed the further north and northeast I go in this state, the more creeped out I get. And, of course, the small towns are creepy too. I'm not gay, but am Native American so I get crap because I am a beautiful toffee brown and not lily white, lol! Yeah, TX sucks big time but there are cities that do not discriminate, San Antonio and Austin come to mind. As a matter of fact just check out either expressnews.com (San Antonio's paper) or statesman.com (Austin).
My ex-boyfriend lives in Ft. Worth right now and tells me all the time that I need to get up there because it's like Austin but better...tells me all the folks there are just so friendly...so I sent him an email with a link to the Ft. Worth's online newspaper and basically asked him what's going on in that "cool and friendly town" of his.
I wish I could move back to my home of Chicago but don't think I could handle the cold..
Anywho, this shit really pisses me off to no end. Cops in TX are complete assholes with the state troopers being the ultimate assholes.

brufanegra · 5 months ago

It was more than a dozen. The Dallas Voice, our local LGBT newpaper, reported at least 200. For DFW and finding out about this protest through only texting and blogs @ 10 in the morning, that is not bad.

Jophus · 5 months ago

I've got to remember the next time I want a glass of wine to pack a fucking helmet.

Butch1 · 5 months ago

Don't forget your pepper spray and taser. Fight fire with fire. ;)

Jophus · 5 months ago

The carnage! There would be a trail of ex's in my wake. The club would part like the red fucking sea.

Butch1 · 5 months ago

;-) Don't tell me your ex's were cops?!!!

Go get 'em!!

pluky · 5 months ago

In these cases, a better weapon is a cell phone that lets you stream video to a secure server.

Butch1 · 5 months ago

Definitely a great tool to catch them in their lies and if it gets to trial, evidence so the jury can watch them at their "finest."

superstition · 5 months ago

"As for the poor guy whose skull was fractured:

'He was just walking to the bathroom when an officer grabbed him and shoved him against a wall and pulled his head back,' said Chris Hightower of Fort Worth, a friend of the injured patron. 'He (the injured man) was then thrown to the ground and three other officers were on him.'

...

"Tammye Nash at the Dallas Voice has spoken to the sister of the critically injured man, whose name is Chad Gibson. To be honest, his present condition sounds frightening:

'However, a second CAT scan performed this afternoon showed that the bleeding in his brain had increased.'

Kristy said Chad has awake today, but that he has no memory of the incident in the bar and that his memor of events today have been spotty."

Butch1 · 5 months ago

That goon needs to be held responsible. There was no cause for this type of brutality. These sadists need to be stopped.

Seansmith · 5 months ago

They definitely wanted to make the point that even though 40 years has passed gay people are still viewed as less than.

Sad thing is, federally at least, they're right.

Welcome to 2009.

Topher · 5 months ago

People in Texas need to step up. This suspect police action in no way surprises me, being a native Texan. The entire culture there (including I dare say, gay culture) for the most part, is saturated with homophobia. There are obviously pockets of support, but the place as a whole is scary.

And my Texan friends still question why I'd never move back.

postdamnit · 5 months ago

Ditto!

SusieQ · 5 months ago

Double ditto. I'm very sad today because I was born and raised in Fort Worth. What people say about the city is mostly true: it is a friendlier, sweeter place than Dallas and its citizens are loyal and proud. However, I left there right after college and have lived in New York for the last 33 years.

Through the years whenever friends or family ask why I don't return to Texas I inevitably have a similar story such as this one to tell them. But until now it hasn't been a Fort Worth story. (It was usually a Bush, anti-woman or religious freak story.)

My parents are now in their '80s and I know that it is my mother's dearest wish to have me closer, but I just can't. Like I said, I'm very sad.

propolice2 · 5 months ago

You give yourself too much credit. The cops didn't care in the least that the people at the bar were gay. They cared that they were stinking drunk, resisting arrest, and commiting assault. And incidentally, 7 people were cited or arrested there out of about 100. That's not exactly a raid. That's laughable.

Topher · 5 months ago

Well, clearly the cops were not called to the bar, so I don't think there were any "assaults" going on prior to the police showing up. Of the three supposedly significant factors you listed-two were perpetuated by the police. What you're left with is that people were "stinking drunk" in a bar on Saturday night. I am aware that in FW the cops make a hobby out of checking in on bars, but from the accounts I have read (also cited in the linked article) these checks, at least in straight bars, are quick, rarely result in any arrests and have never resulted in injury. I acually have been present during one of these "checks" in a straight bar in the area (Denton), and it was essentially the cops carding people they thought may be underage. It doesn't seem this was the case at the Rainbow Lounge. And, by the way--I wasn't giving myself any "credit." I was making an observation based on my experience growing up in Texas and stated as such. Clearly, I'm not too far off base.

propolice2 · 5 months ago

I think it would be enlightening for you to read statistics about how many people are convicted on public intoxication charges. You can get access to them - they're public records. The cops do make arrests routinely at bars. When people are so drunk or so clueless that they resist arrest, they are restrained. It's not just FW cops that check on bars...they do it everywhere. The very fact that you don't hear about it routinely in the news is evidence that most people simply accept their citations, maybe spend a night in jail, pay their fines, and go on with life. This hysteria over this is being pushed by an agenda. I've discussed this with some of my gay friends and coworkers this morning once I read what was going on, and I really do feel sad for them that their righteous cause is going to lose credibility by hysteria over a whole lot of nothing.

Jophus · 5 months ago

Wait, what was the reason someone cracked their cranium? What reason on earth would force like that be necessary? Was the bartender's liquor license expired? Someone needs to kick some cop ass in Texas. First tasering a lady in her seventies and now this. Fucking disgusting.

Butch1 · 5 months ago

It seems like law enforcement draws these types of sadists to the force. Those are some sick steroid injecting bigots allowed to carry weapons and beat up on citizens without impunity.

Jophus · 5 months ago

Apparently they only targeted effeminate men (no women) and their reason was over-serving. Isn't the appropriate response to this problem a fine? To the establishment and not the patrons? I hope this story blows up.

The cops are just following suit with the federal government. We are not equal. We can't drink equally. If you're effeminate the government will crack your skull.

SD_Dave · 5 months ago

The liquor license couldn't have been expired, the bar had only been open about a week.

Matt Algren · 5 months ago

One of the witnesses said that a cop told her that it was because a disgruntled former bartender called them about overserving or something.

Of course, they've been open A WEEK, so the likelihood of having a disgruntled former bartender is remarkably non-existent.

SD_Dave · 5 months ago

I hear ya. I'm so glad the good trusting "public servant" (rolling eyes) created that lie as it can now be used against him.

Jophus · 5 months ago

I was probably searching for a reason more than the cops.

propolice2 · 5 months ago

They "cracked their cranium" because they were drunk and passed out, not because they were restrained. Unbelievable how an entire story changes when something as INTEGRAL as facts are ignored.

superstition · 5 months ago

Actually I posted about this an hour prior to SD_Dave, according to the comment time stamps. :)

http://www.americablog.com/2009/06/nyts-nagourn...

SD_Dave · 5 months ago

Oops! Sorry Superstition. I didn't see it on that thread :( I'm just glad it has gotten a thread of its own to bring attention. :)

superstition · 5 months ago

I'm glad it's getting attention as well.

JoeSudbay · 5 months ago

I apologize too....hadn't seen your comment. I'm updating my post...I know that's not what you're asking, but want to give credit...so Thanks to both of you. This is really, really disturbing.

superstition · 5 months ago

:)

I'm just glad the story is getting out.

Scott · 5 months ago

I haven't been to the bars in 3 years or so (live in FW), but I remember some of them used to hire an armed police officer to walk around, socialize and do club bouncer duties.

Guess that's changed since then!!

Will have to check out more articles to see if I know anyone injured, as I'm just now hearing about this.

Jophus · 5 months ago

You live there and haven't heard about it? Everyone reading this, it is your duty to tell everyone you know.

Scott · 5 months ago

Yes, just now hearing about it. Unfortunately I haven't had the time to tune into the local gay grapevine for about the same number of years. Have already told a couple local friends.

jeinpdx · 5 months ago

Two states - Texas and Florida - are place I never, EVER, have to visit. EVER. I don't care if Disneyworld is in Orlando. I have Disneyland if I ever need to go out in my red t-shirt.

John · 5 months ago

Boycotting Disney World would be an overreaction on your part. The company itself has received very high marks for diversity outreach. And Orlando has become considerably more gay friendly since those disturbingly hateful Gay Day protests in the 1990s. If we are keen on punishing bad behavior, shouldn't we also salute progress when it occurs?

Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer has marched in the city's gay pride parade. There's a local ordinance that prohibits employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation that, significantly, applies to both the private and public sectors. And the city extended domestic partner health benefits to gays in 2008. This is a first for conservative Central Florida. Over in Hillsbourough County (Tampa), the county commissioners actually voted to ban gay pride completely.

Jophus · 5 months ago

Did anyone else immediately call someone and start screaming on the fucking phone the second they read this? Damn it! I was ready for fucking bed. Now my heart is racing........motherfucker. Just....... god damnit.

dymsum · 5 months ago

I've been following this since about 3pm, and it's only gotten more disturbing with each subsequent story, eyewitness testimony, or report. Some of those folks were still in jail this evening, according to one person. And the police report almost 100% contradicts what everyone else - drunk or sober - said happened.

There were several edits over the course of the afternoon and evening, so I apologize if it's mildly choppy, but my blog covered every unfortunate detail from early reports to later statements. Even worse, the critically injured party that's been mentioned is in pretty rough shape. No idea if the cops are going to have to answer to a death related to their excessive brutality or what.

Butch1 · 5 months ago

They need to answer to the brutality no matter. Why would a person be given a skull injury for the charge of over drinking? There was one person who was drinking water and was man handled and arrested. This whole thing smells. We'll be getting many stories as this unfolds and those will be coming from the police. It seems the stories the victims are telling are all the same. That should hold some water if it ever gets to court. I do see some law suits in the future and the last thing Fort Worth needs is to hear the question: What is your net worth? I hope the city and police department get their pants sued off of them and those who assaulted the patrons need to go to jail.

propolice2 · 5 months ago

The person wasn't given a skull injury. He had alcohol poisoning, was violently puking, and passed out. While passing out he, shocker, hit his head. Incredible. Just incredible. People prefer to believe hysteria instead of facts.

Butch1 · 5 months ago

And where did you get your facts? From the filed police report? ;-) Cops were seen throwing people up against the wall with one person having his head bashed into it. Another questioned the cop and was thrown to the floor with three other cops pressing down on him for "resisting arrest" 3 to 1 and the gay was resisting arrest. I was born and night but not last night.

I have a tendency to believe the eye witnesses over some lying cops trying to cover their asses. Don't you find it amazing that three cops claimed they were groped? Sorry, you cops are not that great looking even to an alleged gay drunk. By the way, one person was arrested for public intoxication for drinking water. I choose to believe the people, I've seen the cops in action enough to know who to believe. I also remember seeing them personally, back in the 1960s walking into gay establishments and just arrest people because they could. You continue to speak for the police, perhaps, you are one but you do know the police have been known to falsefy their reports to cover their own crimes. Open your own eyes. This event really smells and to choose to inspect a gay bar during Pride Week shows just how insensitive the cops can be.

propolice2 · 5 months ago

Oh, how silly. Your reiteration of what's been released by the police isn't even accurate. You know what? There are some bad cops. But there's many more good ones. And don't you find it at all funny that cops arrest drunks in bars every night...and in fact the same cops arrested people at other bars before getting to this one...but this is the one that makes news? Odd, eh? You flatter yourselves by thinking that the cops are insensitive. They're just doing their jobs...and I'd much rather be online talking about them than having their job to do!

Butch1 · 5 months ago

Yes, cops pick up drunks each evening. The only difference is that they don't beat the shit out of them for being drunk but they feel free to do so when they enter a gay establishment. You figure it out.

propolice2 · 5 months ago

You're totally right. They don't beat them for being drunk. Ever. Not even last night in a gay bar. Why in the world would you figure that they'd have an agenda against gay people and no one else? Since the key phrase here seems to be eyewitness accounts, why haven't we seen any where people talk about being beaten themselves or have pictures of beatings? Obviously there were camera phones in the bar. So why are the only pictures of one guy in handcuffs, and another with some cops with a guy on the ground. Know what that was evidence of? The guy being subdued. Not beaten. Better yet, most camera phones can shoot video, too. And make recordings. If it was really as brutal as the eyewitnesses say, why didn't some of them tape what was going on? They didn't because they couldn't because it didn't happen!

Butch1 · 5 months ago

Let's see . . . cops don't have anything against gays. What are you drinking? I told you I have seen it with my own eyes what they can and will do to gays. Gays are called faggot and cocksuckers and anything else the police can think of at the moment. Don't tell me they don't do it, I've seen it. So cops do go over board and beat people even when they do not resist? There are too many movies taken of them doing just the very same thing. Does Rodney King ring a bell? How about that 72 yr. old lady being tazored? I'm sure the police were afraid for their lives . . . Unless you were at the bar that evening you don't know whether the police did what has been claimed they did or not. Time will reveal the truth. I bet the crowd celebrating peacefully are the victims and the cops started this whole thing. Have you really thought that if this were a scheduled inspection, why were there all the cop cars surrounding the place and the reason for the many cops was that this whole thing was planned from the very beginning. Use your brain and quit apologizing for the police.
I do not want to continue this conversation with you so let's agree to disagree.

propolice2 · 4 months ago

I'll do you one further. We can agree to disagree. And I'll continue to assert that my comments are based on corroborated fact while yours and many others are based on fictionalized hysteria. There weren't cop cars surrounding the place. The many cops? Are you kidding? A handful versus over 100 patrons. They always go into bars in greater numbers, for their own protection. That's common knowledge. And I still challenge you to this - there were camera phones there. Fact. Why hasn't ONE SINGLE PICTURE, ONE SINGLE VIDEO, or ONE SINGLE AUDIO RECORDING been released to substantiate these egregious claims? You referenced Rodney King. I remember that case only too well. Back in those ancient times of technology, that video hit the news instantly. Four days have now passed. The only pictures are (1) 2 cops subduing a patron resisting arrest while 2 more look on, (2) 2 cops talking to another patron outside, and (3) a bunch of people partying at the house next door under the guise that they were taking refuge. If something so terribly wrong actually went down, I guarantee it would have been caught on video or still picture. Happens ALL THE TIME. It would have been on YouTube in about 5 minutes. The very absence of that is better than any of the evidence collected by the police, any of the corroborating statements taken by those arrested, or any of the (2!) complaints filed. The end.

Butch1 · 4 months ago

I can buy your first statement, but because you prefer to blindly believe everything the police tell you and then dismiss the citizens in the bar tells me, you are either a police person or married possibly to one. You are also putting out information that hasn't been reported to my knowledge and if you are allowed to read the police reports and everyone else has to be "Freedom of Information" to do it, is a bit fishy to me. You are coming up with a lot of disinformation as far as I can tell or speculation of what happened without the knowledge of it. I read your hype regarding a CAT scan report and trying to give a medical opinion without knowing what you were talking about until another person set you straight about how it works. I can extrapolate that to other areas. If you would make uneducated opinions regarding the health and tests conducted on Mr. Gibson, then I can only imagine what else you may or may not be telling us. I do not trust the police and they can be great deceivers when doing their job. As I said before, if you have complete access to what the police are doing or their reports etc., You are an insider and should therefore, be suspect at anything you say. Yes, The End.

propolice2 · 4 months ago

Not an insider, although that's flattering to hear you say. My job, while interesting, is not nearly so noble as that of an officer's. No inside knowledge, either. I haven't responded with any information that wasn't available through other websites, by extrapolating data from interviews, by cross comparing differing accounts, by evaluating pictures released, or through the police reports, which are public, not private. Yes, you have to request them...but that's an easy task. Not as uneducated as you might think on healthcare issues, either. My background is in healthcare, and the ideas I've advanced have been based on the information released. Incidentally, it's gratifying to have heard/read more recent reports, which confirm what I've said in the past. Always nice to have your thoughts affirmed...but as we've already agreed, we're simply not going to come together on this issue, so we'll agree to disagree. Take care.

dymsum · 5 months ago

Oops, the link didn't show up. It's http://dym-sum.com/2009/06/28/no166/

Jophus · 5 months ago

What city did those two guys get arrested for sodomy? Was it the same god damn police force?

dymsum · 5 months ago

It was actually right outside Houston, which is a reasonable distance from Fort Worth...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas#...

Jophus · 5 months ago

So here is proof that this is not an isolated instance: We've been harassed by Texas police (which receives funds from the federal government) on multiple occasions, including just for making love in privacy.

This is not an isolated instance because there is proof of a systemic problem. The government has abused us on more instances than we've had terrorist attacks.

superstition · 5 months ago

Fort Worth Police Statement Concerning "Rainbow Lounge" Raid

http://www.the33tv.com/news/kdaf-rainbow-lounge...

superstition · 5 months ago

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/6/28/747...

"Personally I think it's police covering their ass. The several eye-witness reports from patrons on the Dallas Voice directly conflict with the police; I tend to side with them. Perhaps cameras in the bar will show a clearer picture..."

trinu · 5 months ago

It certainly wouldn't be the first time.

Butch1 · 5 months ago

It's the old "grope the cop" ploy. Isn't it curious that the same thing happened to three different cops? They were so irresistible that the gay men couldn't keep their hands off of them? Please, we need every eye-witness to these arrests to come forward and tell the truth.

propolice2 · 5 months ago

So here's the problem, superstition. The eyewitness reports not only conflict with the police reports; they also conflict with each other. And some of the "eyewitnesses" have been proven to have not even been there. It's interesting that society selectively picks its beliefs. Criminal justice studies have found eyewitness reports to be notoriously uncreditable, particularly in court cases. In fact, most people who get out of jail after having their innocence proven were original put there by eyewitness testimony. But yet, when it suits an agenda, the eyewitnesses suddenly become GOD. Get real.

Butch1 · 5 months ago

"And some of the "eyewitnesses" have been proven to have not even been there. "
==============================
Disinformation.

propolice2 · 4 months ago

Glad to hear that you consider it to be disinformation because it doesn't mesh with your opinion. In fact, it is true INFORMATION. I attended a community forum last night in Fort Worth where the Police Chief answered questions from many concerned citizens. He asked the gay attendees who among them had been in the bar. A few raised their hands. He asked them who among them had actually witnessed unprofessional police behavior. Complete silence. Everyone kept looking around, waiting for just one person to raise their hand. Not one. The police chief put out a plea for statements from people at the bar about the misbehavior they allegedly saw. In 3 days, 2 reports were filed. 2. The rest are two busy getting in front of TV cameras, or have wisely figured out that lying on a police statement carries the same perjury penalties as lying under oath in court. Fact.

Butch1 · 4 months ago

Because you blindly believe what the police are saying doesn't make your "facts" true. The fact that there are some different opinions coming from the police reports about who groped whom and who "fell" and etc., tells me the police haven't even gotten their stories straight yet. The fact that there were some people at this meeting who stayed silent ( because of police retaliation perhaps? ) doesn't mean anything. Do you think ALL those who were at the bar were there at that meeting? Also consider that if there are gays who are afraid to be "out of the closet" they are not going to speak up in a public forum. I'm surprised that with the history of the police lying about cases and crimes, you would be so blindly faithful to anything they would say and totally dismiss those who were actually at the bar as eyewitnesses and victims. Perhaps, they didn't speak because no one wanted to stand up to the police in that forum. Hundreds of years of gays being persecuted can do amazing things to a person's attitude. More eyewitnesses have said these police came into the bar like it was a raid not an inspection. Stop and think for yourself, why does it take two liquor inspectors and about 6 cops to do an inspection when it only takes two with the power of arresting citizens? Why were there multiple police cars surrounding the bar if it wasn't their intent to raid it and capture anyone fleeing out any of the doors? Yes, I am waiting for the dust to settle and when this gets to trial you may hear the real truth or you may not. There are two many inconsistancies in the police reports and glaring "red-flags" that need to be addressed further. This will all unfold eventually. I know by reading your many comments, not only on this site but on others, that you are what your name suggests and that blind trust in a cop telling the truth 100% of the time is questionable at least. Three cops being groped? Please. As one person retorted, we may be gay but we aren't stupid.

propolice2 · 4 months ago

Apologies for the late reply; was on vacation. Let me try to share my perspective. I'm a member of a minority group, and one that is quite often overlooked - I'm of middle eastern descent, and have experienced hateful actions due to that. I'm inclined to have great sympathy for people who, because of a demographic alignment that is out of their control, are picked upon in any way, whether it be physically, with words, or otherwise. Because of my work in and education in research, and my interest in all things legal, however, I feel very passionately about police officers and the work they do. 999 times out of 1,000, work is done by officers that never captures the attention of others. It's the 1 time out of 1,000 - and really, probably even less - that makes the news. Sometimes, that's because of an actually occurance that is dishonorable. Other times, it's because the parties involved do not have the integrity or accountability to own their own actions and instead bring about a fuss. After reading account after account in this case, which I continue to do, the second is the case here. I made a study the other day of all of the remarks various witnesses have made on their own websites, blogs, within these types of websites, and to the media. Every witness got a column, and all of their remarks were recorded. Know what? With one exception - one - out of about 100 logged statements, there was a lack of consistency. More disturbing was the fact that it wasn't just a lack of consistency between different people, but between the same people giving different accounts. I don't have blind trust in cops, and I'm chosing to believe all that's been released as a whole, instead of what was simply in the releases from the police. Three cops never claimed they were groped. I believe that the record refers to inappropriate advances and behavior. Only one alleged assault in the form of being groped. I'm curious as to the inconsistencies you point out in the police reports - I've found none. It seems that the FWPD was very thorough in documenting their actions. I've only commented on one other site, so since you refer to multiple others, I can only assume that there are other folks out there using the same scrutiny I have to analyze this and that they are pointing out the same types of issues...I'll have to seek out other sites to see. No one's referred to you, either individually or as a group, as stupid. Ignorant doesn't mean stupid; it means uninformed. And when only certain sides of an event are studied, uninformed is an appropriate label. Take care.

Jophus · 5 months ago

Have another listen to the song Chris posted after thinking about how god-damned terrible this is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rZbvi6Tj6E

With particular emphasis on the part where she says.... You'd better run, run, run. I said you'd better run, run, run.

markf217 · 5 months ago

All of this makes Bulgaria seem more attractive to me. Maybe Texas should secede from the USA. They don't really have American values there.

Jophus · 5 months ago

I KNOW that is not defeat I'm sensing in your tone.

markf217 · 5 months ago

NO honey, that's irony.

SD_Dave · 5 months ago

What did Wanda Sykes say at the Whitehouse Correspondence Dinner? "Whose idea was it to give the Queen an iPod? I mean come on. Give her something that is American. Give her Texas" (or something like that.)

markf217 · 5 months ago

It would be more poetic justice to give Texas back to Mexico. Out of fairness, maybe Austin could remain sort of like (West) Berlin was in the Cold War, something of an island in a sea of oppression.

caphillprof · 5 months ago

My boyfriend keeps saying that: Give Texas back to Mexico.

UncleBucky · 5 months ago

Look. Mexicans have a whole lotta hurt that started with the Conquista and has come down to the second Conquista (NAFTA). They don't need a bunch of Texian rednecks. So, I guess, give Texas back to Mexico after all the nasty gringos are sent somewhere else. After all, be fair! ;-)

Ugh.

Butch1 · 5 months ago

Gitmo will be open for rent.

Jophus · 5 months ago

Fort Worth Police General number: (817) 392-4200

Police administration: (817) 392-4200

FWPD media contact: (817) 392-4214, pedro.criado@fortworthgov.org

FWPD Internal Affairs: (817) 392-4270

Jophus · 5 months ago

Does anyone know if we have mugshots anywhere? Or pictures of the victims? (Other than the ones linked to in the post)

cowboyneok · 5 months ago

Just read an article over at CNN about Children of the "Gayby Boom:"

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/wayoflife/06/28/...

Worth a read!

Jophus · 5 months ago

I used to work with a girl with 2 moms. It was odd because she new I was gay for years and never told me till I saw them out. She doesn't think twice about sexuality, and it never occurred to her that I would be interested.

cowboyneok · 5 months ago

If anything that article should just prove how ridiculous it is to continue to discriminate against gay families. Also, the politicians need to realize just how behind the curve they really are by not granting the LGBT community full equality now. Its inevitable. How do they want their legacy to be remembered? As dragging their feet?

Wesinoregon · 5 months ago

Yes, two of the moms and son in the story live in my town here in Oregon.

Bill_Perdue · 5 months ago

If these uniformed bigots are allowed to get away with this without a major response including lawsuits we're in big trouble.

This is the direct result of the Obama administrations cold hostility towards us. It't a green light for bigots, uniformed or not, to go after us.

Bill Perdue

Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas · 5 months ago

Welcome to Dumbfuckistan/JesusLand...Texas. I've been slammed on the blogs for years about being critical of the culture down here...that they've moved on, that they're no longer racists, that the New South is better.

Really. QED

Wesinoregon · 5 months ago

This stuff has gone on for years. After living in Dallas for 32 years I moved. And it's MUCH better now in Oregon. George Bush must have gotten bored over in Dallas and had some of his "God's Army" guys move in on Fort Worth so he could have some entertainment. Texas is nothing but a police state. Remember those cops who took money from people in two small towns and kept it after they got stopped and were let go? It's under investigation now. These cops we have now have served in Iraq and Afghanistan and have come home to treat the US public like the enemy. To "them" we ARE the enemy.

propolice2 · 5 months ago

If you were so unhappy here, sorry it took you 32 years to get away. Calling Texas a police state is laughable. And I'll bet the cops only consider you the enemy if, I don't know, YOU BREAK THE LAW! Cops don't hate gays, blacks, hispanics, or any other identifier; they uphold the SAME LAWS in the SAME METHODS on ALL PEOPLE.

Wesinoregon · 4 months ago

What is laughable is YOU. I see the above comments by you and they are uneducated responses. As for me, I stayed in Texas until retirement as I am now retired. I spent years with the same company and didn't want to start over. As for law breaking? I haven't even had a ticket in 30 years. I have been stopped, for no reason, and let go several times thus my experience with that police state I called it. My experience there was so much more unpleasant than where I am now. Obviously, you don't get out of state much. Try it sometime, you might find out what I'm talking about.

propolice2 · 4 months ago

People who have studied the law and make their living by conducting in-depth research are often called uneducated by those seeking to advance agendas on opinions instead of fact. I'm not from Texas, but I've chosen to make it my home for the past 10 years. Before living here, I lived in 5 other states. I've visited more than 40 states, for work and pleasure. And in the end, Texas stands as my first choice of places to live.

timncguy · 5 months ago

after reading the "groping defense", it wouldn't surprise me now to hear the cops use the san diego fireman's argument that the patrons were yelling sexually suggestive comments at them. They kept yelling, "show me your nightstick" said the policemen in their defense yada, yada, yada

propolice2 · 5 months ago

It's not a groping defense. It's a groping offense, which is assault.

timncguy · 5 months ago

at this point it is "alleged" groping. And, the police are using this allegation as a defense for their actions.

In this instance, I wouldn't believe much of anything that the police allege? Let the police officer who claims to have been groped. drop his pants and have the doctor take some pictures of his injuries for proof of the "assault"

propolice2 · 5 months ago

Why in the world would he need to do that when it's already been corroborated by people in the bar other than the cops? Wow.

Wesinoregon · 4 months ago

You know what they call groping? Trying to grab anything around you while they knock you down. The guy who got his skull fracture probably did that as he fell.

Glenn Wallace · 5 months ago

40 years after Stonewall, Gay Bars are STILL being raided...WTF???? Texas is a MESS!!

propolice2 · 5 months ago

Why in the world would anyone think that the cops would even KNOW it was the anniversary of Stonewall? This was an inspection at a bar (that was pre-planned and the owner knew about) where there were people who were so drunk that one had to be transported to the hospital after they were puking explosively and passed out. Incidentally, that's what caused the kid to knock his head on the ground, not force by police. Cops go into bars and arrest people every night of the week. It's over the top that people looking for a rallying cry are now using a routine and NON-violent occurance (the only people the cops put on the ground were the ones resisting arrest, and NONE of them were injured) to further a cause that deserves better than the drama queens who lead it. Want to advance gay rights? Great. You should. Everyone deserves equality. But it's time to stop fictionalizing events, and cobble together into a cohesive group of rational adults working on a worthy cause.

Wesinoregon · 4 months ago

The "one" who puked was the same one who got his head cracked open. I think you would puke too if that happened possibly without even a drink before hand. I had a concussion before and I puked too. The police came up from behind him by the restroom and pulled his head back and he fell and hit the wall with his head before he fell to the ground. The wall has a dent in it where he hit.

propolice2 · 4 months ago

Without even a drink beforehand? By his own statement, he was drunk. A dent in the wall? I can't stop laughing. Your recounting of other people's misinformation isn't even accurate. The so-called eyewitnesses say that his head was snapped back before he was thrown to the floor, which, by the way, is still a gross exaggeration. In any case, no head against wall, no dent, no cracked skull. Kid has a concussion. His dad says he's doing fine. Funny that information like that doesn't get reported....guess it's just not as inflammatory as the hysteria.

Topher · 5 months ago

Really? A troll on the issue of police brutality? Wow.

propolice2 · 5 months ago

If troll means to point out the facts that everyone seems to be overlooking in favor of the hysteria that is based on fiction, then sure, I'm a troll. Guess you only believe in equality when it suits you, and not when it brings an opposing viewpoint, eh? That's ok...I have tough skin.

Wesinoregon · 4 months ago

FACTS? where? By you? Were you there? There are people who were there who are talking of facts more than you are.

propolice2 · 4 months ago

I wasn't. My best friend, however, was. And we know several of the cops involved. And have read all of the police reports, completed independently of one another, but that completely mesh with each other, even between the two agencies involved. Further, I make a living conducting in-depth research and comparing what I find to discern fact. What I state is based on fact. Period. What the media is currently reporting is based on hysteria. Period. Hope it's a nice day for you in Oregon because it's a beautiful one here in Texas.

Wesinoregon · 4 months ago

I don't buy "your facts"... I read all the stories too. Here's another one for you. It agrees with what I said before. He hit his head on the wall caused by the rough treatment he got. I know you find that laughable but too bad you have a one dimensional mind. By your thinking the police are NEVER wrong and they never lie to cover their ass's. You are very naive and brainwashed. History proves me right. Yes it's very nice in Oregon, much nicer than Texas weather.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Man-Injured-in...

propolice2 · 4 months ago

Actually, no. Unlike the people advancing this fervor, I don't advance broad generalizations. I don't mind acknowledging that there are police officers that do not perform their duties honorably....just as there are bar patrons who will tell every lie in the book to cover their butts when accused of public intoxication. All of them? Nope. Some? Absolutely. You may want to go back and read the account of one of the others who was arrested, who was actually the one who was handcuffed against the wall before being photographed as he was restrained on the floor. Wasn't Chad. That's been verified, but other than police "stories."

superstition · 5 months ago

"At approximately 10 a.m. EDT, The Dallas Voice reported that Chad Gibson, the hospitalized victim of yesterday’s Rainbow Lounge Raid, has worsened overnight, and may need surgery to repair the damage caused by police brutality.

Gibson is in intensive care after reportedly suffering head trauma when he was thrown to the ground by police early Sunday during a raid of the Rainbow Lounge. Nash said she visited with Gibson’s mother and his sister this morning, and they told her that his condition has worsened. Gibson reportedly has a brain bleed — also known as intracerebral hemorraghing — and the clot inside his skull has gotten larger and shifted, which is a bad sign."

http://dym-sum.com/2009/06/29/no170/

superstition · 5 months ago

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/11778/news-...

Chuck · 5 months ago

I just finished a book about gays and lesbians who were thrown out of their homes by their parents. It's full of heartbreaking stories about taunts and violence against them by schoolmates and the police. After being in NYC last week, where I lived for 25 years, I was feeling so good about Pride and Stonewall, and then that nice article someone posted from CNN yesterday about children of gay parents. To hear this on the local D/FW news tonight absolutely sickened me.

That bar is on the site of the former 651 Club, which was the first gay bar I ever went in 30-something years ago. It was an oasis for me in the middle of grotesque prejudice in an otherwise-lovely Fort Worth. There are virtually no gay bars in FW anymore, which means that everyone drives 45 minutes to Dallas and, many times, drives back drunk.

I am convinced some Billy Joe Nascar heard about the gay parade and Stonewall on hate-filled talk radio and decided to go 'harass me some queers.' People in bars sometimes drink. Sometimes they get drunk. But if they are not bothering anybody, what's the problem? It's going to take a lot to convince me this was not totally the fault of the police. I'm embarrassed that it makes Fort Worth look awful in the eyes of the world, and even more embarrassed that it happened on the anniversary of Stonewall. Fort Worth might need some riots of its own.

And to you, propolice, enough already!

MarlinB · 5 months ago

If you are in the Dallas, Fort Worth (DFW) area, tonight will be a great chance to show the Fort Worth Police Department we are not going to let them run over us on this issue. Please make every attempt to attend this meeting.

Fort Worth Police are having a Community Forum today, June 30th at 7 PM located at New Beginnings International Church.
2000 E Loop 820, Fort Worth, TX - (817) 492-8540
If you can, please attend to tell them that we will not tolerate police brutality and discrimination in our community.

Help us in numbers to show that we will not be hidden any more.

Later,

Marlin

MarlinB · 5 months ago

I just arrived home from a community forum that the Fort Worth Police have in their different communities. The Police Chief assured us that the investigation is continuing.

He also read a press release, which I have not been able to find on the TABC website, that the TABC is also starting an internal investigation.

He asked two things of the community. 1) That we be patient as he continues the investigation. 2) That if you witnessed anything at the Rainbow Lounge please go to the Police and file a report.

He assured the community that this was not targeted and that the event was headed by the TABC and not the Fort Worth Police Department.

I hope that we will soon see results from this. He also said he believes that we need a LGBTQ liason on his staff.

If and when I can find the press release from TABC I will copy it here.

Later,

Marlin

MarlinB · 5 months ago

A straight ally was smart enough to use his iPhone to record some of the conversation tonight concerning the events at Rainbow Lounge and the GLBTQ's concerns. Please feel free to listen in.

http://tinyurl.com/lh3xqb

Later,

Marlin

MarlinB · 4 months ago

Chad has been released from the hospital. Please find an interview posted here:

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/Man_Hurt_in_Ba...