So is the now an anti-Obama blog? Maybe you guys should forces with Red State to oppose everything Obama does and then bring him down in 2012
haich
· 11 months ago
tuning out of Americablog now... you all have become ridiculous.
MD
· 11 months ago
I hate to say but I agree. It seems like because Obama hasn't immediately changed everything BEFORE HE HAS EVEN BECOME PRESIDENT...he's a failure. The more vocal progressives who are crying that Obama has betrayed them and they'll not support him don't deserve Obama and the good he very likely will do even in his first 100 days.
They honestly deserve somebody who will really tick them off...Sarah Palin and Joe the Plumber.
First, Obama is NOT PERFECT. He will make mistakes. And, if you cannot accept that, most Americans only care that their lives are improved. He does that and the disgruntled far left risk becoming as irrelevant as the Neocons who have just lost out.
COME ON...GROW UP!
Brad
· 11 months ago
If anyone brings him down, it will be Obama, no one else.
Brad
· 11 months ago
What is Obama's political philosophy? Forget his smooth, beguiling oratory. Words are cheap, especially for him. He's certainly not going to micromanage. His appointees are going to govern according to their mindsets and skills. So look at who he is putting in charge. It makes me shudder to envision the next 8 years.
Bubbles
· 11 months ago
If you study a history of the evolution of the Common Law over almost a thousand years, or if you just read Oliver Wendall Holmes "The Common Law" you will learn that it is a legal system based upon pragmatism (in the ordinary use of the term, also known as Common Sense) with a bias for justice/fairness and liberty/freedom in that order. Thus liberty is important but it doesn't always prevail - especially if it offends fairness or some other issue on a practical manner.
In essence that appears to me to be Obama's philosophy: Pragmatic, ordinary common sense, with a bias towards fairness and freedom. I agree with that, and I will support him as long as I see that coming from him.
In regard to his politics, that makes sense to me as well. He's trying to rumpify the rump.
The Republican party is a minority party right now -its a rump. He's trying to make the rump smaller by peeling of layers of it drawing those layers into his tent: it's divide and conquer. He's trying to make the rump less effective still by denying them lightening rod issues that allow them to galvinize and gain traction as an opposition.
Those things make sense to me too.
If he succeeds in this, later on Obama can succeed in passing progressive legislation.
But this process will not succeed overnight. Politics is like making sausage, its a very unsavory sight. to watch this and this is a process in slow motion. Furthermore, it might not work.
I understand the opposition to this politics as well.
On top of this, Obama hasn't taken office yet. = it is not in his interest to ruffle conservative's feathers at this time.
merlin
· 11 months ago
This has become a tragicly sade site of negativity.
johnbpt
· 11 months ago
That's right! Everything would have been fine if not for those nattering nabobs of negativity!
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 11 months ago
I personally am going to wait until he is actually in office. I will then join with other people to effect change. To rush to judgment based on the pure speculation of "experts" and to quote a Bush adviser as the gospel truth is Irony beyond the pale. I may not agree with him asking Warren to HIS inauguration but it is HIS. Fighting a big battle over every little perceived slight will gain the LGBTQ community nothing. Holding a grudge will get us less. I say we choose our battles better, and WAIT until Obama is actually president and has some time to change policy. Bush is still our biggest enemy at this point.
Brad
· 11 months ago
Actually it's not just HIS inauguration. It's OUR inauguration. Everyone who supported, worked and voted for him. Does Warren represent the WE in OUR? Is he the distillation of US as a whole? Is that what we've become?
Brad
· 11 months ago
Shudder the thought!
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 11 months ago
It is all much bigger than Warren. He is not worth the fight.
flymice
· 11 months ago
I am inclined to side with Fireblazes. Let's wait and see. I am still optimistic, but I understand why one may be very pessimistic. Let me throw out some, hopeful pragmatic, logic.
Warren owes Obama, and always will, for this. Warren must listen to Obama, and have logical discussions with him. He has to defend his hateful opinions to someone Warren has to see as reasonable.
1) I work in a business where I have to perpetually defend my ideas to people who can strongly disagree with my ideas. If both sides are reasonable (Obama has done his part), the answer is almost always in the middle. Warren will temper his opinions unless he is an idiot ideologue (see current President). 2) I am the only reasonable person in a family of wingnuts. Warren is as reasonable as they come, unfortunately: he is thoughtful (relatively) and If anyone in that crazy assed world will temper ideas, he will. 3) Obama needs to make Warren meet and communicate with members of the GLTB community. I have “hated” many idiots in my business, but it is difficult to truly hate someone when you meet them and have to talk with them. Ideology does not work well when you are put in a situation where you have to communicate and defend an idea. Ideology does not withstand much stress, it only works in a vacuum. 4) If Obama forces this temperance, he can also force a public statement of relative tolerance. This could can result in a new view of GLBT for much of the country- the “pedophile and incest” freaks get pushed out. A small shift in the right direction by a large number of people is a big step towards acceptance. In practical terms, a small shift means fewer active protests. GLBT rights, as prop 8 demonstrates, does not need acceptance as much as it needs fewer active protesters. Tolerance follows; Acceptance is next, then normality. 5) This opens a line of communication to ~30% of the country who would never listen to Obama. Some of the necessary change needs >55% support. We need radical change to impact global warming. Rednecks need to be driving fuel efficient trucks (with gun racks).
What are your thoughts on this? Am I mindlessly hopeful?
sigh
· 11 months ago
Warren does not *have to* do any of that. You're only mindlessly hopeful in your trust of Obama. We need to make politicans do good, not hope they they will. They tend not to do it on their own and good people tend not to get to high office. But we can make moderate people do good things, and Obama *is* open that, *if* conditions make it necessary. So lets get out there and fight.
If we don't, we'll continue to be disappointed and to lose ground. Change is slow. Even in periods when it seems to be fast (like the civil rights era and the 60s-early 70s), there's so much leading up to it (in the case of civil rights, decades of groundwork and organizing). It's like a balance scale, more and more force for change accrues on one side with little happening until, suddenly, it moves swiftly. The people are hungry for change, but the forces of status quo are also strong. Even if Obama is not the champion so many expected, he did tap into and engender the good in people unlike anyone has in more than a generation. That, along with the end of the Reagan era (which continued under Clinton and recent Democratic congresses which are "New Democrats"), had the Establishment scared. We can use that, and the thirst among the people for change for better, or we can squander it. Those not of our interest are certainly working hard for their interests.
flymice
· 11 months ago
sigh: I agree with everything you say. we do need to apply pressure and argue strongly. I think we can argue more strongly if we give Obama the benefit of the doubt that he has not thrown his campaign pledges out the window. I expect Obama to sit Warren down, tell him where he is wrong, and then insist on a tempered statement.
we will see. as you said, it takes time and will appear to be painfully slow.
Happy Holidays!
Brad
· 11 months ago
First rule of trust: if they tell you they won't ever lie to you, expect to be betrayed. An honest man doesn't need such words to show he is honest and forthright. He merely sticks to his word and does what he says he will do. Obama fails. So now I think of all the times I have seen that particular posture of his in photos where is is holding his head up ever so hight as if to say "I am an honest and honorable man." It makes me shudder.
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 11 months ago
So if a person stands in a certain way that is evidence that he is a liar? I call bullsh!t on that line of reasoning. You shudder too much.
Brad
· 11 months ago
Nope, pal. You take it as a gestalt. And this gestalt is beginning to look drafty.
Brad
· 11 months ago
I admit to overuse (twice) of that word "shudder". Should have taken a little more time to notice it and use an alternative. It's a big deal, isn't it?
Jay
· 11 months ago
Why didn't I vote for McCain????? We got screwed anyways!
johnbpt
· 11 months ago
Of COURSE we're in for four years of the mushy middle. I'm always amused when my fellow lefties suspend their disbelief in presidential election years, only to be shocked -- SHOCKED -- when their progressive knight in shining armor turns out to be exactly the mainstream sellout he's been his entire political career. It's almost like the left starts to believe the GOP propaganda that the Dem nominee is a "socialist," a leftist" or a "radical." To be honest, it doesn't give me much hope for the progressive movement -- assuming that it actually exists -- that we're so easily fooled over and over again.
martha
· 11 months ago
Please, please, I hope you are not right. But I have a horrible nagging feeling you might be.
tbhull
· 11 months ago
You are correct. This is solely a progressive problem. All those fiscal conservative/small government types feel betrayed by the current adminstration
sigh
· 11 months ago
Of course they get fooled. It's hardly motivating to only support the still evil but lesser evil candidate, so people convince themselves that the candidate is more progressive than objective, critical analysis of the evidence says he is. If he talks well, they believe him; it feels good. Nary evidence from what he actually does rather than says. Too few are willing to think outside the box enough or come together to do the difficult, long-term work and organization required to make bona fide progressives viable. Or to even push politicians forward which tends to be how things get done.
The answer is not in the ideal politician, those people aren't allowed to the table (and are made ineffective by the system, witness Kucinich), the answer is people forcing Power to change. It almost never does so voluntarily. It is events that must do it. We are at the cusp of a new era, whether that is progressive, conservative, or something else remains to be seen, and partly rests on what we do with the opportunity.
Clearly, a major Clinton administration mistake was demoralizing supporters. Just one example, NAFTA, cut across the board and removed economic reasons for many moderate independents or republicans to support a Democrat. It and various other slights culled the energy which then, too, was very expectant, and voters stayed hom in 94 and 96.
This leads me to a conclusion which I've wondered why I haven't seen voiced yet. What does Obama gain from the Warner move? He already has the moderates and the wingnuts aren't especially rational or open to him. Does he really expect to bring them to the tent? What else does he have planned that would? As I see it, along with the militarists and neoliberals more-of-the-same establishment crowd already surrounding him, this move only alienates the left and softens his base of support.
He could have chosen from a multitude of superior religious leaders to honor with bringing in his Administration, but he deliberately chose an evangelical demagogue. The Warren invocation is symbolically important which they're well aware of; and it's not an isolated incident!
Also, Democrats are always expected to move to the left and constantly prodded by the media to do so, including being attacked if the don't. This is not true of Republicans. Similarly, as was recently discussed on this blog, the media hover over minor, or nonexistent!, Democrat scandals; but marginalize or outright ignore much deeper and more relevant Republican scandals.
sigh
· 11 months ago
CORRECTION: Democrats are expected to move to the right
(and Republicans are not demanded in the same way to move to the left)
teammarty
· 11 months ago
If the Dems move any more to the right they'll be the Nazi party instead of the not-so-NAzi party. Then we will ahve the ultimate 1/2 party system.
But then we just had McSame vs. O'Same
Older_Wiser
· 11 months ago
I hate mush. It's what they fed to us in the orphanage 60 years ago.
And I don't appreciate a good 30%+ of the population (LGBTs, Jews, Muslims, etc. and atheists) being insulted by someone who says everyone who doesn't believe what he preaches is going to hell.
We're not just a white or "christian" population anymore--get used to it. Ignorance is not bliss.
shumanb
· 11 months ago
wtf? MIKE CONNELL IS DEAD in a "PLANE CRASH" and nobody is fucking talkjing agbout it? WTF?
Ben Dover
· 11 months ago
Yes. It was a small aircraft crash, I believe. How convenient for BushCo and Ken Blackwell. And right before he was to testify...
Good gracious! Is Americablog just going to be the "I hate that mean Rick Warren" blog? Is there nothing else to talk about? This guy isn't being invited to set policy- he's doing an speech! I don't care for his politics either, but this doesn't mean that everything he's ever done is evil.
dan
· 11 months ago
o = w
chris
· 11 months ago
wow! this blog is full of drama queens.
SuzanneNYC
· 11 months ago
He hasn't even been inaugurated and yet his presidency is being predicted as a failure. Panic is spreading like wildfire. Of course, expectations were completely unrealistic to begin with. Waiting is hard. Nature abhors a vacuum. It's time to take a deep breath, count to 10, and exhale. Repeat often. Turn off the computer and do something else for the next couple of weeks. Get some perspective, people. No one knows what's going to happen. Please, let's just get the guy inaugurated so he can be the next president.
bartonizer
· 11 months ago
I think many people don't understand some of the reasons Republicans took control in the late 90's. A majority of Americans grew weary of political correctness, and the collective mentality of the country frowns on whiners. This blog usually does a good job touching on important issues, but c'mon. The Prop 8 issue IS a big deal. The fact that Obama invited Rick Warren to give an inauguration prayer is NOT a big deal. Relentlessly harping on this issue is counterproductive to the cause. Preaching tolerance while acting intolerant seems hypocritical, and this type of whining annoys a lot of folks. Governing like the other party doesn't exist is "Bush league". To a lot of Americans, I think that this shows Obama's willingness to reach out to the other side, and that's extremely important. Rick Warren is not setting policy, he's saying a prayer. Keep the focus on the big picture, and pick your battles wisely.
johnbpt
· 11 months ago
The Rick Warren invitation IS part of the Big Picture, which is growing increasingly dismal for queer Americans and those who really care about us. If you think in-your-face gestures like the Warren selection have no significance, then you are clueless.
smiling_dog
· 11 months ago
Four Years of the Mushy Middle? If we're lucky, we'll get the full 8 years of the Mushy Middle before Jeb Bush takes over.
tbhull
· 11 months ago
Four more years of the goverment protecting current wealth with taxpayer dollars. American taxpayers are the slaves for wealth.
rmichels
· 11 months ago
There are those of us who figured out along the way, some of us early in a moment of inspiration, others later as we saw him repeatedly tested, that Barack Obama is substantively different from the politicians we've grown up with and grown used to.
And then there are the rest of you, a group that includes John and Joe and Chris and some of the posters on this site as well as others, and which includes the mainstream media punditocracy as well. The 'smart money', for you guys is on disappointment and betrayal. Not a sucker in the bunch of you. Cynicism rules.
We can only say, at this point, while you continue in your gloomy appraisals and prognostications, "you'll see." In any event, what you are talking is not knowledge but fear. There's a month to go yet before the first Obama executive orderrs on his first day in office. No one has a shred of evidence to prove or suggest that the president will abandon is own public agenda on LGBT rights on that first day or during his first week or first 100 days.
I have every confidence President Obama is going to do us proud. Not knowledge, because there's a month yet to wait, but confidence, which is enough. I kinda feel like those workers in Chicago who refused to leave the factory after they were terminated, who occupied the plant and who were vocally supported by the president-elect, and who WON. Fear did not motivate their sit-in. Confidence did. And they had no certain knowledge of victory either. Confidence was enough.
Buck up, soldiers.
We'll see. In the meantime, your fear abhors the vacuum.
frozennorthobserver
· 11 months ago
so what flavour was the Kool-Aid? Ol" OB is just another classic "bait and switch" politician. You've been had bud,sorry. At least he's not a moron like Jr. but he is still just one more power hungry politician. Look at all the old establishment hacks and flacks he has surrounded himself with. You don't get fresh water from a old pond.
sigh
· 11 months ago
Of course more of the same and that's why the corporate media loves his picks.
Imo
· 11 months ago
When you quote Bush advisors to make your point that an Obama presidency is doomed, the chances are you're a fool.
It's the This-Is-the -Worst-Thing-That-Ever-happened-to-Me-Since-the-Last-Worst-Thing-That-Ever-Happened-to-Me school of blogging.
President Obama is charged with saving the nation in the most difficult environment in he the last 80 years, and AmericaBlog will be circling the tables at the inaugural ball checking to see whose place cards are next to each other.
Bitching is a reflex not a skill.
johnbpt
· 11 months ago
Spoken like someone who's not queer and has never suffered any form of discrimination as an oppressed minority -- correct me if I'm wrong. Oh, and being marginalized as a Swede on Norwegian Pride Day doesn't count.
redstar
· 11 months ago
Rubin was on Team Clinton, right?
This crisis was bipartisan, and the same democrats who brought it with the Republicans are back in the saddle.
Anyone who has read Obama's books should not be surprised at the way things are playing out. He has learned to pick his battles and further his agenda without compromising his basic principles. Let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good yet again, and give the guy a chance.
All Comments
They honestly deserve somebody who will really tick them off...Sarah Palin and Joe the Plumber.
First, Obama is NOT PERFECT. He will make mistakes. And, if you cannot accept that, most Americans only care that their lives are improved. He does that and the disgruntled far left risk becoming as irrelevant as the Neocons who have just lost out.
COME ON...GROW UP!
In essence that appears to me to be Obama's philosophy: Pragmatic, ordinary common sense, with a bias towards fairness and freedom. I agree with that, and I will support him as long as I see that coming from him.
In regard to his politics, that makes sense to me as well. He's trying to rumpify the rump.
The Republican party is a minority party right now -its a rump. He's trying to make the rump smaller by peeling of layers of it drawing those layers into his tent: it's divide and conquer. He's trying to make the rump less effective still by denying them lightening rod issues that allow them to galvinize and gain traction as an opposition.
Those things make sense to me too.
If he succeeds in this, later on Obama can succeed in passing progressive legislation.
But this process will not succeed overnight. Politics is like making sausage, its a very unsavory sight. to watch this and this is a process in slow motion. Furthermore, it might not work.
I understand the opposition to this politics as well.
On top of this, Obama hasn't taken office yet. = it is not in his interest to ruffle conservative's feathers at this time.
Warren owes Obama, and always will, for this. Warren must listen to Obama, and have logical discussions with him. He has to defend his hateful opinions to someone Warren has to see as reasonable.
1) I work in a business where I have to perpetually defend my ideas to people who can strongly disagree with my ideas. If both sides are reasonable (Obama has done his part), the answer is almost always in the middle. Warren will temper his opinions unless he is an idiot ideologue (see current President).
2) I am the only reasonable person in a family of wingnuts. Warren is as reasonable as they come, unfortunately: he is thoughtful (relatively) and If anyone in that crazy assed world will temper ideas, he will.
3) Obama needs to make Warren meet and communicate with members of the GLTB community. I have “hated” many idiots in my business, but it is difficult to truly hate someone when you meet them and have to talk with them. Ideology does not work well when you are put in a situation where you have to communicate and defend an idea. Ideology does not withstand much stress, it only works in a vacuum.
4) If Obama forces this temperance, he can also force a public statement of relative tolerance. This could can result in a new view of GLBT for much of the country- the “pedophile and incest” freaks get pushed out. A small shift in the right direction by a large number of people is a big step towards acceptance. In practical terms, a small shift means fewer active protests. GLBT rights, as prop 8 demonstrates, does not need acceptance as much as it needs fewer active protesters. Tolerance follows; Acceptance is next, then normality.
5) This opens a line of communication to ~30% of the country who would never listen to Obama. Some of the necessary change needs >55% support. We need radical change to impact global warming. Rednecks need to be driving fuel efficient trucks (with gun racks).
What are your thoughts on this? Am I mindlessly hopeful?
If we don't, we'll continue to be disappointed and to lose ground. Change is slow. Even in periods when it seems to be fast (like the civil rights era and the 60s-early 70s), there's so much leading up to it (in the case of civil rights, decades of groundwork and organizing). It's like a balance scale, more and more force for change accrues on one side with little happening until, suddenly, it moves swiftly. The people are hungry for change, but the forces of status quo are also strong. Even if Obama is not the champion so many expected, he did tap into and engender the good in people unlike anyone has in more than a generation. That, along with the end of the Reagan era (which continued under Clinton and recent Democratic congresses which are "New Democrats"), had the Establishment scared. We can use that, and the thirst among the people for change for better, or we can squander it. Those not of our interest are certainly working hard for their interests.
we will see. as you said, it takes time and will appear to be painfully slow.
Happy Holidays!
We got screwed anyways!
The answer is not in the ideal politician, those people aren't allowed to the table (and are made ineffective by the system, witness Kucinich), the answer is people forcing Power to change. It almost never does so voluntarily. It is events that must do it. We are at the cusp of a new era, whether that is progressive, conservative, or something else remains to be seen, and partly rests on what we do with the opportunity.
Clearly, a major Clinton administration mistake was demoralizing supporters. Just one example, NAFTA, cut across the board and removed economic reasons for many moderate independents or republicans to support a Democrat. It and various other slights culled the energy which then, too, was very expectant, and voters stayed hom in 94 and 96.
This leads me to a conclusion which I've wondered why I haven't seen voiced yet. What does Obama gain from the Warner move? He already has the moderates and the wingnuts aren't especially rational or open to him. Does he really expect to bring them to the tent? What else does he have planned that would? As I see it, along with the militarists and neoliberals more-of-the-same establishment crowd already surrounding him, this move only alienates the left and softens his base of support.
He could have chosen from a multitude of superior religious leaders to honor with bringing in his Administration, but he deliberately chose an evangelical demagogue. The Warren invocation is symbolically important which they're well aware of; and it's not an isolated incident!
Also, Democrats are always expected to move to the left and constantly prodded by the media to do so, including being attacked if the don't. This is not true of Republicans. Similarly, as was recently discussed on this blog, the media hover over minor, or nonexistent!, Democrat scandals; but marginalize or outright ignore much deeper and more relevant Republican scandals.
(and Republicans are not demanded in the same way to move to the left)
But then we just had McSame vs. O'Same
And I don't appreciate a good 30%+ of the population (LGBTs, Jews, Muslims, etc. and atheists) being insulted by someone who says everyone who doesn't believe what he preaches is going to hell.
We're not just a white or "christian" population anymore--get used to it. Ignorance is not bliss.
Yes Virginia, there IS a Santa Claus.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Karl_Roves_IT_gur...
And then there are the rest of you, a group that includes John and Joe and Chris and some of the posters on this site as well as others, and which includes the mainstream media punditocracy as well. The 'smart money', for you guys is on disappointment and betrayal. Not a sucker in the bunch of you. Cynicism rules.
We can only say, at this point, while you continue in your gloomy appraisals and prognostications, "you'll see." In any event, what you are talking is not knowledge but fear. There's a month to go yet before the first Obama executive orderrs on his first day in office. No one has a shred of evidence to prove or suggest that the president will abandon is own public agenda on LGBT rights on that first day or during his first week or first 100 days.
I have every confidence President Obama is going to do us proud. Not knowledge, because there's a month yet to wait, but confidence, which is enough. I kinda feel like those workers in Chicago who refused to leave the factory after they were terminated, who occupied the plant and who were vocally supported by the president-elect, and who WON. Fear did not motivate their sit-in. Confidence did. And they had no certain knowledge of victory either. Confidence was enough.
Buck up, soldiers.
We'll see. In the meantime, your fear abhors the vacuum.
It's the This-Is-the -Worst-Thing-That-Ever-happened-to-Me-Since-the-Last-Worst-Thing-That-Ever-Happened-to-Me school of blogging.
President Obama is charged with saving the nation in the most difficult environment in he the last 80 years, and AmericaBlog will be circling the tables at the inaugural ball checking to see whose place cards are next to each other.
Bitching is a reflex not a skill.
This crisis was bipartisan, and the same democrats who brought it with the Republicans are back in the saddle.
http://tinyurl.com/Romance-in-the-White-House