i question these 'Hillary supporters' who say they'll back McCain...
sounds more like GOPers
Joe_Bourgeois
· 1 year ago
Re: comparative status of African Americans and women in the contemporary U.S.: Although these kinds of calculations aren't very fruitful, I think, this is a very easy question to resolve. Just ask the white woman raising the issue if she'd willingly change places with an African American man. Even if she won't admit it, you can see in her face that she gets it. Works every time.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
I agree, comparing varying degrees of 'who suffers more" isn't usually very productive, but that's exactly what Hillary and her supporters are doing. They're trying to tell us that a black guy had it easier than a woman, and that's just absurd. Both candidates had their crosses to bear, and one did better.
lynchie
· 1 year ago
I think it was Ickes who yesterday mentioned affirmative action as if to say that Obama wouldn't be there without it. My answer to that is you may be right, but with all that was available to you Mr. Ickes and to your candidate isn't it strange you are on the outside looking in.
57andFemale
· 1 year ago
That's a GREAT idea.
Coming Undone
· 1 year ago
This is simple Hillary and her supporters cannot believe that voters would chose a black man over a white woman.
If Obama was a child prodigy and finished Harvard at age 16, helped find a cure for cancer, in some of the minds of these women he would still be just an inadequate black man, a nig(bleep,bleep).
Nigel Elliott
· 1 year ago
A Sullivan reader commented: [At the end of the campaign,] the Clintons are left with Hacks and Hicks!
And their legacy has backfired and imploded.
I still hope Obama appoints her to SCOTUS; let corporate America live in fear. ;-)
lynchie
· 1 year ago
she is no threat to corporate america.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
From the Rose Law Firm to the Supreme Court?
Good God.
Paul_In_SF
· 1 year ago
Those folks just seem really pissed that their annointed one was not given the prize that they figure she was due.
From this mornings SF Chronicle:
Erik Meinhardt, 20, a student at Ohio State University, said he will write Clinton's name in on his November ballot, an act of revolt some Clinton supporters are advocating.
"He's so inexperienced I can't even believe people would vote for him, that they fell for all that," Meinhardt said. "The media has treated Hillary like s- and basically gave Obama the go-ahead without asking any questions. Hillary's been doing this her entire life. Obama's been in the Senate for two years and now all of a sudden he wants to be president. How arrogant." ----------------------------------------------------------
The presidency is not some prize awarded to those who have been gobbling at the public trough the longest. If that were the case, then Senator McCain "deserves" the job far more than Hillary, who has been an elected official just how long??? Arrogance is trying to don the mantle of your husband's work history and flaunting it as your own.
mush57
· 1 year ago
At the same time, the Presidency is not a prize for Speaking competency,
Denverbound
· 1 year ago
Great comments John, by making it a us or them case, you will push 'them' away. Obama's rhetoric is much more reassuring to me then some of his supporters, who hurt him more then their hate lets them see.
Balt_O_Matt
· 1 year ago
Pray tell, what's the appropriate response to people screaming about inadequate black men, calling Dean a Nazi, and using words like hijack (hijack, for goodness sake!)? Hillary and her supporters have done a fine job already of creating an us versus them mentality, and they are doing nothing--absolutely nothing--to make it better. That's not the fault of Obama or any of his supporters.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
You don't need reassurance, you need therapy, or drugs, or perhaps just a swift kick in the behind. You're no better than the religious right, who, whenever we fight back against their hate, they then say "look how intolerant you are of our intolerance." Yes, well, when crazy people pick fights, and threaten to put John McCain in office, I fight back. You people crossed the line of decency a long time ago. You had your chance, you lost, and now you're putting a metaphorical gun to the rest of our heads, unless you get... what exactly? What is it exactly that you want us to do, short of giving Hillary the nomination after she already lost? You guys bitch and moan a lot, but you don't do much to explain what it is that you want. That makes you come across as angry, and nasty, and a bit crazy - and Republican. We're kind of just fed up with your childish antics. You're hurting the party now, so honestly, I don't care if you take a flying fuck into the arms of Pat Robertson and help McCain overturn Roe v. Wade. You've already told us that's exactly what you're going to do. So now you suddenly want us to play nice while you go all GOP ape shit? Seriously, fuck you.
JacksonThersites
· 1 year ago
Calm down, John. Seriously step back and take a breath. Your rage has gotten the best of you and now its serving nothing but itself.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
Hmmm, if I had told a Hillary supporter to 'calm down' I'd be called a sexist.
Denverbound
· 1 year ago
You really assume a lot about me in your post, most of it wrong. Now I admit that Senator Obama not my first choice or even my second, for the Dem nomination, and I will also admit that a segment of Senator Clintions supporters and the Senator herself seen to have pushed this way past where it should be. I am trying to look to the future and in that future I would love to see a Democratic President. In order for that to happen we all need to dial it down a bit. But calling me crazy because your a bit hysterical about Clinton and have been for quit a while now is not going to help Obama one bit. But if you want to keep blasting at people like me, you will have the pride of fighting the good fight keeping ideology purity and helping elect McCrazy Pres.
Nick_the_Dog
· 1 year ago
John, you make me laugh the good laugh. I enjoy your posts. At least we can enjoy some good ( or not so good) discourse on Americablog.
Nick_the_Dog
· 1 year ago
The nice "lady" at the coffee house I go to daily noticed my "Veterans for Obama" button. It was kind of embarrassing when she went all rabid on me. She walked away from the espresso machine and stood glaring at me from as far away as she could get behind the counter. While the line was being held up, other customers were getting pissed at me. Not about my political leanings, but because they were being "held up" by Hillery once AGAIN. I mentioned the episode to the manager a few hours later, in a humorous way. It's been days since, and I haven't seen the "Lady" again. I hope she didn't get fired or quit because of me. I was hoping to have a chance to piss on her leg.
57andFemale
· 1 year ago
They DO know that if they "steal" this in any way or do irreparable damage to Obama's chances, that we'll have a right to be that pissed too, don't they? Because we behave better and don't act like a rabid mob doesn't mean the party won't implode if Hillary does irreparable damage.
mush57
· 1 year ago
bullshit, of course you tried to get her fired, or else you wouldn't have mentioned it "to the Manager" Asshole
Nick_the_Dog
· 1 year ago
I didn't get her fired. That was not my intention at all. She was there this morning and was just as snotty if not worse than the last time I saw her. I continue to be the same sweet person I have always been. Oh, yes! By the way I have been going to this coffee place everyday for the last 32 years and am a share holder in the company. You can bet if I wanted her fired, she would be gone.
I love that you signed your reply "asshole". That's really to cute!
Will_In_Midtown
· 1 year ago
I totally would have tried to get her fired. She was being completely unprofessional, not to mention completely childish. There are many people i absolutely disagree with on many different issues. But I don't throw a tantrum. That nonsense is uncalled for, especially in a business.
Nick_the_Dog
· 1 year ago
She should have "let this sleeping dog lay". I think I reacted correctly in the hope of unity.
Nigel Elliott
· 1 year ago
Who knew? Mandy Grunwald and Matt Cooper are married. Cooper is literally embedded with the Clinton campaign. God, I hope their kids are well-connected, EARLY! Something like a pre-birth job contract with the Clintons.
Indeed. Of course there are hurt feelings. Losing is no fun. But get on the unity bus and start fighting McCain.
What's most hurtful, I think, is the language these Clinton supporters are using that's, well, hysterical. They're comparing the "loss" of votes to Zimbabwe; they're comparing Dean to the Nazis; they're using words like "hijack". These are the words of unhinged people, and they aren't helping our cause. They rile people up more and more, and they should be ashamed. All of 'em.
jr
· 1 year ago
the Hillary blogs are still attacking Obama today using every entry from the Hannity dictionary
Coming Undone
· 1 year ago
The Clinton's have taken far more than they have given.
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
In fairness to HIllary supporters, they are being fed a daily dose of "we should win" by Ickes, Wolfson, and McAwliffe. If you watch those guys, they have spun the hell out of numbers and theories, including Obama is stealing the election. So if you support Hillary you want to believe everything these 3 hell raisers say, whether it is honest or not. These 3 are the "scorched earth" policy makers (sure Hillary is there too, but these 3 incite and encourage supporters). I would really hope that in future elections Ickes, Wolfson, and McAwliffe are avoided like the plague by fellow Democrats.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
That is a good point. To some degree we shouldnt' take it out on her regular-people supporters who have been told for weeks and months that she can win, that she did win, and that evil men stole it away from her. So it's not surprising that they now believe this, but this is all the more reason why Hillary's surrogates, funders, and staff need to be called to account
57andFemale
· 1 year ago
The vast majority of supporters will be fine and will come around. But I do blame Hillary: she is ultimately responsible and this is her show and her vision of the show.
And the superdelegates. I had blamed the party, but frankly they acted responsibly yesterday. I need to send them some money.
But the supers -- where are they today? What does it take to signal that we must get this done? Does she have the supers banked? What the hell is going on here?
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Stoller at Openleft had a good post today on the "imprinting" process, mainly with regards to Hillary supporters.
Hey John! I'm curious. What is it like being on the inside of the Republican apparatus?
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
I was working on the Hill at the time, and and was in my 20s, so it wasn't like i was privvy to all the scheming and strategy stuff that I get to see on the Dem side, now that I'm older (sigh) and more experienced.
hawkseye
· 1 year ago
Anyone who would hire Ickes to represent him/her on a nationally televised DNC hearing is totally unaware of good PR in 2008. No wonder Billary lost this campaign and possibly her political career. I don't know about those other than Ickes and their future political fortunes. I should think McAulliffe would be put out to pasture, but he's ordinarily a good fundraiser, so he still might be attractive to some.
carollt
· 1 year ago
Amen Brother John.
Let's hope the nomination is over by this time next week. Let's pray that the Clinton's lose with some grace and dignity. Taking it to the convention is no way to unite the party. But the Clintons are all about the Clintons, period. That is why this 52 year old working white woman and Navy veteran voted for Obama.
If the Hillary supporters cannot get over the loss and vote for McBush, they have themselves to blame when they find their sons and daughters drafted and sent off to war.
I always thought Bill Clinton was a Republican in Democrat's clothing. Who signed NAFTA; who fast-tracked China, who deregulated the banking industry and brought us the sub-prime debacle. Our country cannot afford another Clinton (or Bush). Hillary recently said she would consider bombing Iran. Hillary voted to invade Iraq. She still won't take that vote back because, like Bush, Hillary will not admit to a mistake.
Go Obama, go Democrats. Let's go forward and never go back.
Gray62
· 1 year ago
"Let's pray that the Clinton's lose with some grace and dignity." Why don't you also pray for the Obama camp to win "with some grace and dignity"? This would be nice, for a change. So far, their efforts at it aren't impressive at all. Looks like they WANT to drive voters away, like John already does.
JacksonThersites
· 1 year ago
Calm down. Take a breath. And maybe a big step back for the sake of your engorged spleen. (I'm glad you are a Democrat by the way.) We will get through all of this and win in November. The die is cast. Obama will be the next President. We must heal the wounds of this long very close battle (seriously look at the numbers, not with an eye to who won and when but with an eye to how close they have been all along), An African American and a woman ran neck in neck to be our nominee and it was close and millions voted. Our two nominees got more votes in the North Carolina Primary this year than John Kerry got in the general election! We will get through this last part and Obama will be fine come September and will will unify behind him and work our asses off in the fall and we will win. Don't dig in your heals railing at those who are heartbroken and angry that an amazing woman will not be our nominee. The true Democrats will not vote for McCain, they will vote for Obama. Give them room to make their petulant heartbroken messes, clean them up, and ask them to stay with us. Stop attacking. Stop threatening. They are as empty as the tantrums of our brothers and sisters. They are in pain and we should take a page out of Senator Obama's book and give them room to come around to him.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
I don't disagree with you. But, I think that's what we've been doing the past 6 weeks - giving them their time and their space. And now it's gotten worse, much worse. We've gone from "she lost" to "she lost because you all hate women and there's a big conspiracy against women and we all hate you now and are never going to support you, etc" At some point, you just can't sit back and give people their breathing space, when the breathing space you gave them just made things ten times worse - there just isn't that much time left. What do you propose?
57andFemale
· 1 year ago
I agree. Wholeheartedly. The more "space" we give them, the more destructive they become. It has to end.
Can someone tell me where the supers are today? What the hell is going on here?
JacksonThersites
· 1 year ago
First of all I propose we don't play into their stereotyping of us. We show them a little generosity as Obama did when he settled for the split in Michagan he got instead of the 50/50 he had the votes for. These people are not our enemies they are our brothers and sisters who fought for an amazing canidate, an historical canidate because they beleive in her and they lost by ever so close a margin. And they are are pain and we musn't make it worse for them. Lets eat some shit if it makes it easier for them to join with us. Stop attacking. Stop threatening. How bout an olive branch to another blog thats a Hillary out post? Not to rehash the past but some serious thinking together how we can move forward together. This is what progessives do. We consider the situation of all our brothers and sisters even if they are pissing us the fuck off. Lets consider them a bit more and ourselves a bit less right now. Lets see it from thier perspective and try to reach across this divide. Lets make amends starting today.
Mikki --SE Pennsylvania
· 1 year ago
No, I think there have been enough other cheeks turned. If I thought as you did, I wouldn't disbelieve Hils supposed comment taht she will "work her heart out" to help elect the democratic candidate! I will believe it when I see it and hear it in action.
Gray62
· 1 year ago
"We show them a little generosity as Obama did when he settled for the split in Michagan he got instead of the 50/50 he had the votes for." His supporters shouldn't have gone for the four vote shift, then. Obama most probably won't need those four delegates, but "stealing" them from the Clinton camp ruined any impression of "generosity" that may have come up. A dumb move, imho.
nashcountync
· 1 year ago
Dang, John, don't hold back. Tell us what you really think.
Chris From Maine
· 1 year ago
It's time to purge the Democratic party. We need to cleanse ourselves from these Clintonites and reform the party in the image of Dean, Gore, Edwards, and Obama. No more "get along with Republicans", no more "power at all costs", no more triangulation. Democrats need to stand up for what we believe in because that is what America needs.
and John is right, and Democrat who supports Hillary's scorched earth policy needs to join Lie berman in the former Democrat line.
JacksonThersites
· 1 year ago
Hillary Clinton is not Joe Lieberman. I am furious at her for the last few months but she is not Joe Lieberman. And remember Edwards voted for the war as did kerry. And remember Lieberman was Gore's running mate. Hilary is trying to win the nomination and can't but isn't giving up and that is pissing us all off because we are chomping at the bit to take on McCain. But you do the party or the dialogue any service by advocating purges or ideological cleansing. Its dispicable. These are our brothers and sisters who fought to elect an amazing woman to be our nominee. Shame on you.
mush57
· 1 year ago
excuse me but isn't the idea that you are proposing "purge the Clintonists" from the party more of a "scorched earth" policy than anything that Hillary has proposed. By the way Gore was a Clinton VP. and whether or not there is any "love lost" you can't just throw him into the "Anti Clinton" camp.
KarenMrsLloydRichards
· 1 year ago
Enslaved-Americans were 60% of a Founding-Father-American! But Hillary-Americans (symbolically, not just those in FL and MI) are only 50% of African-Americans who vote for Obama! Can't you people see the Injustice! The disenfranchisement! The victimization! It's horrifying!!!
debbee
· 1 year ago
I'm fed up with these damned corporate minded Democrats. They aren't fighting for the party or for America. They are fighting to hang on to their ego driven need to feel relevant and taste the fruits of power once more. I'm sick of the way they mislead people into believing they are something they are not. It's just repulsive and gut wrenching. Do the Hillbots truly believe that if Clinton did not NEED Mi and FL she would have given a rat's tush about the votes being counted? After her pandering to the bigots of KY and W VA and in parts of Pennsylvania presenting those people as the sole holders of the title of being the hardworking people of America she needs to get the frack out of town. I've been trying to behave myself on my boards this morning but the Hillbots are still pushing the fuzzy math and acting like Obama is behind it all.
FRACK EM! Either move forward or find your own damned bus to ride.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
I love when you talk BSG :-)
debbee
· 1 year ago
It's feeling a little BSG at this point with the Hillbots running around acting like the unpredictable Eights.
Will_In_Midtown
· 1 year ago
BSG?
debbee
· 1 year ago
Battlestar Galactica
Great scif-fi and a great commentary on post 9/11 America.
Jim Olson
· 1 year ago
Wow. Hillary as an Eight. *shudder*
JacksonThersites
· 1 year ago
Its not the mark penn's or the wolfson's or the ickes' or the bill's we want to hold onto its the folks that voted for health care for all, and stronger unions, and better trade policies and saving the social safety net, and the environment and the middle class. I want them on obamas bus and if that means the Galactica has to eat a little crow and rejoin with president laura roslyn and the rest of the fleet at planet Kobol to do it, well, i'm game.
debbee
· 1 year ago
I'll take that ride and raise you a raptor.
tsdivadani
· 1 year ago
Disclaimer before I leave my comment- I voted for Kucinich in the primaries, and have not thrown my unabashed support behind either Obama or Clinton.
That being said, I've often thought about the race vs. gender thing. My question would be, does Obama have the advantage over Clinton because he's a man (not a black man, just a man)? I wonder if there is an underlying sexism that still assumes women shouldn't be in any positions of power, and well President is pretty much the top of the lot.
The sexism is there, and this election has really brought it out in media persons I used to have a deep respect for, like Keith Olbermann.
Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not saying it's easier to be black than a woman or vice-versa, I'm just trying to provide something else to think about. It sure seems to be easier to be sexist than racist.
I don't know if this makes any sense, but I needed to throw in my two cents. I've always loved your blog writings! :-)
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
Two cents well added :-) The thing is, sexism doesn't explain why the media called HIllary inevitable for two years prior to the 4 months they declared her race in trouble. Suddenly the media realized in January of 2008 that Hillary was a woman? How does it explain why I liked her for 2 years and now can't stand her? It just doesn't make sense. How did she win WVa and Kentucky and other states where, one might posit sexism might be more of a problem (oh that's right, she was running against a black guy). The sexism argument doesn't hold water because everyone supported Hillary up until 4 months ago. Either she suddenly became a woman, the media and others suddenly learned that she was a woman, the media and others suddenly developed sexism overnight, or she lost because she lost and her supporters, unfortunately, have been lied to and believed it.
tsdivadani
· 1 year ago
Oh I completely understand John, and I think the media is part of the problem (as it seems to be more and more these days, heh.). There's really no way to know what the group-think was, but the media decided they wanted Obama and have been a lot more lax on him than her. However, we have to take into account that she's stuck her foot in her mouth many more times than he has during this campaign too.
I've never been a big Clinton fan myself. Ever since I saw her in an interview from Iraq with McCain and they were both nodding their heads in agreement regarding how to proceed in the War, I was done with her. What strikes me though is that with all her horrible campaign practices, she still manages to bring out the voters and keep it close.
I don't think the sexism (or any racism or bigotry for that matter) was developed overnight, I just think this campaign, because of it's uniqueness to Presidential campaigns in this country, has brought it all a little more to the surface.
If only there could be an issues-only campaign! :-) ~Dani
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
I really do think it's "that woman."
I've had female bosses most of my career and I've never had any problems with it.
But Hillary just makes me sick.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
I understand a call for unity in a spirit of benevolent liberality but when unity has to take a back seat to partisan angers, I'm more comfortable with a realignment. Let the Dixiecrats go. They surface every twenty years or so, fuss and fume and storm off like an angry swarm of wasps, then they settle down and either lapse into angry silence for a decade or become Libertarian Republicans. Either way is fine.The liberal door is always open. Some come in, some go out. That's a good thing.
paleodan
· 1 year ago
If the major Hillary people (Ickes, McAullife) are still fighting this after June 3--when the nominating process is over, we should have an active campaign to make sure they don't work for Democrats again. For example, contacting campaigns and liberal organizations that have them on their boards.
carollt
· 1 year ago
I really do not believe the myth that Hillary has lost because of sexism. That myth was put out there by the Clintons for the Clintons. Hillary is where she is because of who she married. She has not climbed the ladder on her own ability.
When I vote for a woman for President, it will be because of her ability; not that of her husband. Hillary is always talking about her eight years of experience in the White House. Was she the President? From what I have read, she did not even have a security clearance. Will Laura Bush run for President and talk about her eight years of experience?
I voted for Obama because he is the best person for the job. I am also a white working woman who attained all I have due to my own ability and hard work. I will not vote for a woman merely because she is a woman. There is too much at stake in this election cycle to be so shallow.
I also object to Hillary's math. She claims to have the popular vote, but to do so, she does not count the voters of Maine (where I live) and other states who held caucuses. She claims that white people will only vote for her, yet Obama won in Maine by overwhelming margins. The last time I looked, Maine was the whitest state in the nation. She also lays claim to older voters. Again, Maine went for Obama and Maine is also the oldest state in the nation.
Back in the day, there was a saying "As Maine goes, so goes the nation". Let that be so again. The old white people here in Maine (myself included) love Obama.
It is my dearest hope that all the folks that say they won't vote for Obama will think again. I fear for the world if McCain is elected President.
mush57
· 1 year ago
I'm not voting for Obama because I really believe that he is not ready for the job. I don't think McCain will be good either, but what has really turned me off is the Obama people referring to the Clinton people as " Linatics" "Nazis" and worse. I will most likely sit home if Obama gets the Nod. Just to see if the "true believers" can make it on their own,
kevinbgoode
· 1 year ago
Look. . .it's not like the idea that Clinton can't secure the nomination through the normal rules and process is some new discovery - she's been behind from the start, despite being touted for the last four years as the "frontrunner" and entitled next President. Well, she hasn't got the votes or the delegates and it is way past time someone accept reality.
Yes. . .no one likes to lose. And perhaps Clinton wouldn't have lost if she hadn't kissed up to the demonizing Right, chose to run in an election year where her negative ratings were sky-high, could deal with a nasty corporate press, or if she had actually considered a positive campaign to appeal to an American electorate sick and tired of divisive sniping. Well, she didn't. Her handlers chose, instead, to echo all of the same nasty-ass bullsh*t that Republidcans have been running on (and winning) for the last decade - and that crap doesn't fly with the American people today.
Hillary Clinton is not the only woman in this country who could run for President.. .and she is certainly not the best candidate for any party. The Clinton baggage has so many chains that it is inconceivable why she ran this time anyway instead of letting more time go by to establish herself as an independent identity.
What behooves me is how these people wail and gnash with anger that she didn't secure the nomination when they were told all along by the Clintons (and the Republicans) that Hillary would be the nominee. They claim the black man is responsible for holding the white woman down, so they'll vote for the old white man who calls his second wife a "c--t." Go figure. They prefer stacking the Supreme Court with old white male ideologues who will guarantee making them permanent second class citizens, and why? Because Hillary didn't get the precious she considered an entitlement. If these people cannot get it through their thick heads that this is exactly what the problem is in this country, then they ARE the problem. They vote for the same-old-crap, and then spend eight years bitching about the same-old-crap, and the country continues to go down the toilet because none of them have the courage to stand up and say "enough."
Well, Obama might end up not delivering everything. He might end up being a populist leader without enough clout to get everything done. But at least he wants to be president of ALL the United States, instead of some fragmented "i'm-better-than-you" base which spends the next four years trying to victimize and get revenge on political enemies instead of serving the country.
Nothing in Hillary Clinton's campaign indicated to me any real desire to unify this nation for any purpose beyond putting together a patchwork of divided groups just to secure her election. That just doesn't fly with me any longer with any candidate. I'm sick and tired of being told that I have to put a Republican-created divided nation in front of my whole country and then sit back for four years while my government does nothing about real problems and spends all its time trying to persecute political enemies.
Enough is enough. I've been told to accept that all politicians are liars - that they are crooked, empty suits only interested in personal gain. Well, what kind of system is that to pass off on the world as the "last great hope of mankind?" If our government has become so rotted that the American people have no confidence that they can ever elect an honest public official, what more do conservatives need to do to finish destroying the country? We can't believe in our media. We can't believe in our institutions. We can't believe in our judiciary, because we are told that any decision not based in right-wing ideology is "activist." We can't believe our President, because lying is considered conservatively correct as long as ideology is served above country. We can't believe our Congress because it constantly fights to demonize each other over searching for real ways to serve the interests of the people in this nation.
I don't care how many Hillary supporters and how many conservatives claim that Obama's message of change and hope is shallow and bogus. What matters is that SOMEONE was smart enough to even address that chord with the American people - and the reaction at Obama rallies clearly indicates that chord needs to be addressed. And what do we get from the media and the pundits and the opposition candidates? More trash.
I think people are beginning to realize what loving America is really all about. And there isn't a Republican candidate, nor a certain Democratic candidate who cannot accept defeat, who can change that reality by clouding and deflecting the issues with flag pins and reverends. We are tired of the bullshit and of a government which serves itself before the people who are supposed to be its masters.
scottinsf
· 1 year ago
Good post John. You pretty much sum up my exact feelings. Over a year ago before the primaries began I was pushing for Kucinich. I knew he didn't stand much of a chance but his views were more in line with mine (though I definitely disagreed with him on certain issues). I also think it is a healthy part of the process to have candidates for the Democratic nomination at both ends of the spectrum. To be perfectly honest, Obama and Clinton were pretty much near the bottom of my list. Some people here might remember I was fairly critical of both and genuinely concerned about the direction of our party. I think it's important for voters to ask critical questions of the candidates leading up to and during the primaries. This is part of how we learn about the candidates; our own personal vetting process basically.
When the primaries began I knew my preference stood no realistic chance and I made the decision to back Edwards. Not my ideal candidate but one I could wholeheartedly back nonetheless. Though I was quite disappointed he dropped out right before California I accepted the fact that I had two choices left to choose from that were quite a bit away from my end of the political spectrum. A large part of my decision between the two was based on the electability issue. Both candidates were for beginning withdrawal of the troops and both were for similar universal healthcare plans. Two issues very important to me. Both candidates also had (have) flaws as well. The opposition to TRUE equal rights for gays, lesbians, and transexuals being the most important to me.
After a lot of thought on both candidates I made my choice. I chose Obama. What transpired in the weeks following was both shocking and unimaginable to me. By the end of March my support for Obama and absolute disgust for Clinton were cemented. I will always remember how profound the change was for me going from almost voting for Clinton to holding her in utter contempt in little over a month. It wasn't feel-good emotions either. I was left both embarrassed and ashamed of my previous support for the Clintons. I will never forget the sense of betrayal to our country and our party I feel.
Is Obama perfect? Hell no. Absolutely not. What I do know is that he has run an incredible campaign by achieving the biggest come from behind, out of almost nowhere primary wins in my life. I truly think the guy has run a class-act campaign and I have no problem giving him my complete support even with his flaws. Ultimately this is a battle to destroy the republicans this coming election. I have no doubt whatsoever at this point that the guy can and will lead the way to that. As much as the whole "change" meme bugged me throughout his campaign, I can smell the change in the air and I think I get it now. I am definitely much more inspired than I was in the last presidential election. Before the primaries started I thought this was Clinton's nomination to lose. I now realize it was Obama's to win and for that I say "Great job sir!"
namekarB
· 1 year ago
Wow. Your wanderings mirror my own with one exception. I too was a Kucinich supporter (but not on every issue) who transferred support to a more electable candidate, Edwards. When Edwards dropped out, I too was faced with two choices and voted for Clinton in the California primary. Over the next month I became extremely disillusioned with the tone and tactics of the Clinton campaign.
I firmly believe Obama is the better candidate but will support either in the general election
DeanBooth
· 1 year ago
Certainly sexism as well as racism has played a part in this primary, but I think it's a stretch to blame HRC's loss on sexism. Caucuses record the vote of the more informed, progressive, activist Democrats, and so one would expect to find the least sexism in the caucuses. Yet didn't Obama do much better than Clinton in the caucuses?
Tyke
· 1 year ago
But, but the Clinton's have been vetted and nothing new will come out ...
I agree. And to Pat Buchanan, who persists in asking why Obama is getting beat in these later primaries, I point out: (1) the particular demographics of the primary schedule (i.e., which primary is being held when); and (2) Clinton and her campaign continue to keep her supporters riled up and believing that the nomination is being stolen from her when it most certainly is not.
Nice work, Hillary.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
And, it should be added. Obama didn't even try in W. Virginia and Kentucky.
Barely showed up at all.
Mikki --SE Pennsylvania
· 1 year ago
Maybe if we all write to MSNBC/NBC we could get them to cancel Pat Buchanan's contract. I, for onew, am sick to death of his nasty squashed pruny face and his nay-saying and crepe-hanging. And the hands, the chopping hands. Pat needs to go!
mush57
· 1 year ago
or, maybe Obama isn't all that great, and people are realizing that he's just another politician, and not Gods gift.
LynnDee
· 1 year ago
That might make sense if West Virginia or Puerto Rico had voted previously in favor of him and now was turning on him, but that's not what happened, is it?
And of course, no one said he was God's gift (like creating straw men, do you?) -- he's just an incredibly talented and gifted politician. Sort of like Bill Clinton was when he first arrived on the scene.
Which reminds me: have you heard? It's Barack Obama's party now.
Mike_H
· 1 year ago
Uhm, no, it's not Obama's party now. A headline in a blog doesn't make it so. Obama faces serious challenges and many of us still believe he's the weaker candidate, nor do we think -- aside from pretty speeches -- that's he particularly presidential.
And the continuing vilification of another Democratic by Obama's supporters hardly strikes us as representing "a new kind of politics" -- Obama's one big theme -- shown to be a lie by his own supporters.
So, no, it's not "his" party, it's the voters, and unless something changes dramatically, it's a party headed for failure in November -- BECAUSE of Obama, not in spite of him.
red_dwarf
· 1 year ago
If you want to join that caravan of bottom feeding scum suckers known as the GOP as they march their way into the dust bin of history - you can join 'em. We sure the hell don't want you on this side of the isle.
May all those in the GOP suck the big one for the next 50 years. I'll NEVER give them the time of day, or a second of my time. In my mind they are traitors, liars, criminals, and pathetic excuses for humans. They can all kiss my a** - I can't wait until the day comes where they have NO power, and no one is listening.
Once we get rid of the corporate whores on the Supreme Court that should be the end of them, for at least two generations.
Keith_in_Southwest_France
· 1 year ago
My question for all of the Clinton supporters is still the same question that I asked on this blog when Clinton started her campaign "How does being the wife of a sitting president, and the junior senator from New York qualify as experience?"
LasloPratt
· 1 year ago
I still get a chuckle out of the fact that Hillary's supporters think a white woman faces more obstacles in America than a black man.
Hilary's supporters are correct in this. You show me one white woman who's become a rapper or an NBA superstar and I'll chuckle right along with you...
nsr
· 1 year ago
Oh give me a break. If you want to start arguments over who's suffered more, try one of the wingnut boards.
LynnDee
· 1 year ago
Are you seriously offering rapper and NBA superstar as evidence of sexism?
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
I'm pretty sure that was a snark.
LasloPratt
· 1 year ago
I'm pretty sure you're right. (In fact, I would have sworn it was self-evident...)
LynnDee
· 1 year ago
It's snark? Okaaayyy... doesn't snark have to have some point you're making? Like NBA superstars have certain physical requirements and so does a President? No, that can't be it. Okay, so rap stars often engage in misogyny as part of what makes them marketable, ditto Presidents? No, that's not it.
Oh well. I guess it's enough that it's snark.
scottinsf
· 1 year ago
Damn, I didn't scroll down far enough and my snarkometer is broken. I've been reading idiotic statements like that from actual Hillary supporters on certain websites and it can be hard to tell sometimes. My observation on Blondie still stands though. Sorry for any misunderstanding.
Paul_In_SF
· 1 year ago
Show me a black man who has become a trophy wife for some rich SOB.
JacksonThersites
· 1 year ago
Mr. Oprah Winfrey, whatsisname.
scottinsf
· 1 year ago
Hell, Deborah Harry and Blondie were probably the first white rock act to incorporate rap into a big hit song back in the seventies. Your second point about the NBA is just ridiculous.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Lots of speculation about Hillary's post-Puerto Rico. plans.
She's going back to New Yawk.
Does this mean a 'suspending my candidacy' speech will be coming on Tuesday?
Stay tuned.
Coming Undone
· 1 year ago
Hillary is the only one responsible for this ongoing fiasco. She lost, she lost , she lost and now her and her supporters have lost it. I believe their biggest problem is that they cannot believe voters chose a black man over a white woman.
If these woman would vote for McCain over Obama it means that they were never going to vote for him in the first place. Out of spite they would vote for a candidate that would continue to send young men and women to their deaths in Iraq and probably Iran. They would vote for a candidate that would make sure Roe v Wade is overturned. They would vote for a candidate that could care less about the health care and the poor. Maybe some of her supporters should have their right to vote, revoked (joking, but not). Hillary broke this and she has to fix it.
I wonder if Hillary will have a big celebration on her Puerto Rico win, with streamers and balloons and a big victory speech.
Gray62
· 1 year ago
"Hillary is the only one responsible for this ongoing fiasco." Having two strong candidates is a fiasco? Because Obama's lead is so overwhelming, or what? Neither his delegate count nor his popular vote numbers seem to be overwhelming. And he lost a lot of momentum in the last weeks. Even with his nomination all but sealed, he's still losing races. But you say Clinton, who still has a chance to win, should have dropped out. Yeah, how dare she challege your favorite candidate... 8-|
KansasModerate
· 1 year ago
The voters of Florida and Michigan weren't the ones making the "compromise" proposals to the Democratic Rules and By-Laws Committee. The voters got screwed by a party that no longer believes in every voter having a chance to vote and every vote being counted (or it would outlaw caucuses -- but that's a subject for another day).
The Democratic Party's rules have been waived by that committee on previous occasions. It could have waived the rule which Michigan and Florida supposedly violated (although in the case of Florida, the Republican legislature, not the Democratic Party, set the primary date). The Rules Committee broke its own rules and the party constitution (which is controlled by conventions) when it took five Michigan delegates away from Hillary and gave them to Obama and when it took all the delegates away from Uncommitted status and awarded them to Obama, whose name wasn't even on the ballot by his choice.
The Clinton campaign has every right to be upset.
CTPatriot
· 1 year ago
Did you swallow the Ickes Kool-Aid all by yourself or did he pour it for you?
RickTaylor
· 1 year ago
I think they know that. I think Hillary is going to actually concede the race in the coming week, but if she doesn't, I think you'll see a sudden exodus of her remaining support.
Rab
· 1 year ago
They know its over, when do they leave? It can't be a graceful one, too late for that, respect has left the building a long time ago....just leave Bill and Hillary.
CTPatriot
· 1 year ago
John...
I think you are far too kind to some on Clinton's staff. People like those you mentioned stand against all of the ethical guidelines that I consider important for a viable Democratic candidate and party. They have regularly spread lies and disinfomation, which most egregiously included Republican talking points and smears, in order to gain an advantage for their candidate. There have been so many last straws with these people over the last several months that I long ago lost count. If Barack Obama is sincere about bringing change to Washington, it must start with rejecting the Rovian, Clintonian politics (and there is hardly a difference any more) practiced by Ickes and Wolfson. And that means refusing to bring them on board. Even if they promised to clean up their act, who could trust these people not to try and sabotage Obama's campaign, or the progressive reform that is ongoing in the Democratic party?
It's time for the DLC wing of the Democratic party to, as Bill Clinton would say, "just go away".
Gray62
· 1 year ago
"It's time for the DLC wing of the Democratic party to, as Bill Clinton would say, "just go away"."
While I don't really like those centrists, this sure looks like many of you Obama supporters follow an "divide et decadere" strategy to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Interesting. Did you folks ever waste a single thought on that it will be your fault, too, by insulting and driving away Dem voters, if Obama loses in November? :-|
Viceroy
· 1 year ago
Do you really think it is a good idea to read the Clintonites, who as of this moment are probably a small majority of the grassroots and mid and lower level operatives, out of the party? And for what? For having the nerve to oppose the candidate you support in a manner perfectly consistent with precedent. Sounds like Stalinism to me. What's next? Shall we have show trials for these "enemies of the people?" I doubt if anything comes of this, but calls are already starting to emerge among her supporters for an independent Hillary candidacy. Of course, that would guarantee a McCain victory, and Hillary doubtlessly plans to run in 2012 after Obama loses. However, it just underscores again that a sizable percentage of Hillary Democrats are NOT going to work very hard for Obama, if at all, and this combined with: 1) the fact that a large minority of whites will not vote for an African American, particularly one permanently associated with the anti-Americanism and racism represented by his now former pastor, 2) the fact that he is hopelessly naive about foreign policy at time at which we are at war, 3) the fact that he offeres the same old repeatedly reputated agenda of serving minority elite interest groups and tax and spend, 4) the fact that his real experience in government would not qualify him to be a town assemblyman, and 5) the fact that so far McCain has made him look foolish most of the time so far, and the Democratic Party is headed towards a disaster in the November elections at least as far as the presidential contest is concerned. So diss Hillary all you want, but you have nothing to celebrate because she is the only one of the two that can actually win. The polls show it, the pundits know it (except those at MSNBC who have the political insight of the average hollywood actor), and in your heart you cannot deny it.
jcgraham77
· 1 year ago
Dittos..can I write Hillary in when Nov comes around?
kevinbgoode
· 1 year ago
Let's review a few things here, shall we? Hillary Clinton had the highest negatives among the American public of any candidate at the beginning of this campaign season. Clinton has no real legislative experience, does she? Other than First Lady, what elected office has she ever held on the state or local level which provides here so much of this alleged "experience?" Next, who said that Obama's former minister was associated with "anti-Americanism" besides right-wing pundits? And finally, after this devastatingly poor campaign, how is Hillary Clinton going to run again in 2012?
Let's not pretend here that, if Clinton had been the nominee, that the Democratic Party was going to win in November. Throughout this entire campaign season, the starting "frontrunner" has been losing sujpport among members of her own party - and bleeding it so badly that she resorted to kissing the butts of some of the most outrageous right-wingnuts just to pander for some more votes. If you think for one moment that a Clinton nomination would have magically produced this huge effort from the majority of the Democratic Party - after her divisive primary campaign - think again. She couldn't raise money. . .her vocal support wasn 't producing the bucks. . .which means her support at the core was SOFT and easily swayed. There was no excuse for her to run this time, given the outrageously high negative ratings AND her ability to rally Repubilcans to vote against her in the general election.
Gray62
· 1 year ago
"Hillary Clinton had the highest negatives among the American public of any candidate" Didn't she have the highest positive, or at least on of the highest, too? Hmm? "Clinton has no real legislative experience, does she?" Being in the US Senate since 2000 is "no real legislative experience"??? Idiot. "She couldn't raise money" She raised more money in the primary than any other candidate before, except Obama. And Obama has been endorsed by MoveOn. Subtract this money, and his fundrasing isn't so stellar anymore. "There was no excuse for her to run this time" No excuse, other than this is what Democracy is made of, of course. Everybody who is elligible CAN run. Nobody needs excuses. And absolutely certainly nobody needs your allowance, or maybe that of Aravosis, to run. Who do you think you are? The ghost of George Washington???
Bubbles
· 1 year ago
She's gonna a pull a lieberman, I tell ya.
Right now, she's comparing notes. Both her and Joe lost primary seasons to an insurgent Democrat. Joe survived it though by going 3rd party and promising he'd still be a dem, then upon election went neocon big time.
I think Hillary will do the same thing. The circumstances are nearly identical.
jcgraham77
· 1 year ago
Wow John, your "with us or against us" attitude smacks of Karl Rove.
feeba
· 1 year ago
Clinton has taken Kentucky and Obama is right there in Oregon. The Democratic race for nomination is still very much alive – and most likely to be decided by superdelegates – as CNN points out clearly
If you’re tired of waiting around for those super delegates to make a decision already, go to LobbyDelegates.com and push them to support Clinton or Obama
If you haven't done so yet, please write a message to each of your state's superdelegates at http://www.lobbydelegates.com
Obama Supporters:
Sending a note to current Obama supporters lets them know it's appreciated, sending a note to current Clinton supporters can hopefully sway them to change their vote to Obama, and sending a note to the uncommitted folks will hopefully sway them to vote for Obama. It's that easy...
Clinton Supporters too …. !
It takes a moment, but what's a few minutes now worth to get Clinton in office?! Those are really worth !
Sending a note to current Clinton supporters lets them know it's appreciated, sending a note to current Obama supporters can hopefully sway them to change their vote to Clinton, and sending a note to the uncommitted folks will hopefully sway them to vote for Clinton. It's that easy...
feeba
· 1 year ago
Clinton has taken Kentucky and Obama is right there in Oregon. The Democratic race for nomination is still very much alive – and most likely to be decided by superdelegates – as CNN points out clearly
If you’re tired of waiting around for those super delegates to make a decision already, go to LobbyDelegates.com and push them to support Clinton or Obama
If you haven't done so yet, please write a message to each of your state's superdelegates at http://www.lobbydelegates.com
Obama Supporters:
Sending a note to current Obama supporters lets them know it's appreciated, sending a note to current Clinton supporters can hopefully sway them to change their vote to Obama, and sending a note to the uncommitted folks will hopefully sway them to vote for Obama. It's that easy...
Clinton Supporters too …. !
It takes a moment, but what's a few minutes now worth to get Clinton in office?! Those are really worth !
Sending a note to current Clinton supporters lets them know it's appreciated, sending a note to current Obama supporters can hopefully sway them to change their vote to Clinton, and sending a note to the uncommitted folks will hopefully sway them to vote for Clinton. It's that easy...
Andy_Lewis
· 1 year ago
Here's a nice hot steaming cup of shut yer fuckin' mouth. We'll vote anyway we damn well feel like, and no pissant blogmeister is going to be laying down any rooooooooolz.
If Barry wants votes, he'll have to kiss ass to get them. Period!!!!!!!!!!
Gray62
· 1 year ago
"Friends of Clinton who advocate a convention fight shouldn't work in the party ever again" Sure way to lose the general election, John. This is really dumb, dumb, dumb. In fact, the whole story is counterproductive, doing much more harm than good for Obama. That's not the way to heal the rifts. Well, did you ever think of the possibility that McSame may win with just a hundred votes or so in November? I'm sure you already drove more than that away from eventually voting for Obama with your insulting mammers recently. :-/
Kuni
· 1 year ago
Every time I think it’s time to cut Hillary slack; she opens her mouth and spews more lies.
Take her latest speech Tuesday night and this little load of crap she dropped:
. . . You have voted because you wanted to take back the White House, and because of you, we won together the swing states necessary to get to 270 electoral votes. . .
For one; she DIDN’T “win those States”; she won the Primary races in those States. Second, a “Primary Win” does mean a “General Election Win”; had Gore won New Hampshire, a State that Bush lost in the Primaries to McCain in 2000, we would never be discussing hanging chads in Florida as that they would not have been relevant to the outcome of that election.
All Hillary did with that lie is try to con the Super Delegates into thinking she can, with an national negative rating of over 50%, win the general election.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
McCain's always been "soft" on pro-life. Black churches are generally adamantly against abortion rights. But, Obama denounced his church of 20+ years yesterday. My realistic instincts tell me that Obama needs to move to the center. Support wind, nuclear, geothermal, sunpower, drilling off the coasts and in ANWR. Stand pat on abortion, GLBT rights, taxes. Advance concepts in education and welfare. Have an actual "plan" for Iraq. And, quit talking about change with no substantive red meat. I like Edwards. He understands that it takes capitalism to run the country and a helping hand to get people who fall by the wayside "up and running". Obama needs to get educated really quickly so that he doesn't keep sounding like Fidel Castro.
lynchie
· 1 year ago
When as he ever said anything even remotely close to Socialism. Your option is McCain whose plan for Iraq is to stay there. Or Hillary who voted for the Iraq war and to bomb Iran. As far as drilling in ANWR the oil if discovered won't help us for at least a decade. How about shipping Alaskan oil to American instead of the far east. Oh too simple? What in the hell does Obama denouncing his church have to do with anything. Religion is the bain of America. As far as moving to the center, show me one article which says nuclear power is centrist. Go back to the right and sit with Pat Buchanan you belong together.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
Women are definitely more racist than men. Men have to work with each other. Women have to design a "company pecking order". That's the world. Except, of course for the few percentages of women and men who say "screw you"; and go their own way... Just sayin....
LynnDee
· 1 year ago
Quote: "Women are definitely more racist than men."
Oh please. You can't be serious about this.
Dave of the Jungle
· 1 year ago
I have no observations or experiences that would support this generalization, in any way.
mush57
· 1 year ago
What a Moron, No more need be said
Busboy
· 1 year ago
I worked in an "office" for 30 years. I know whereof I speak.....
mirth
· 1 year ago
We will not help our country or strengthen the Democratic Party by wooing those who express the opposite of our principles. For every crazy, ignorant, racist person, there are many more young voters eager to advance Democratic policies and move this country away from its shameful state. This election is and should be a purge and renewal of our party and our country. Those who won't see or can't see the hope and the dire necessity of Obama - f*k 'em. They are what we fight against. We don't need them and we don't want them, and 'they' include the ratpack who came to prominence with WJC. Their time is OVER!
mush57
· 1 year ago
thank you for giving me a reason to either sit home or vote McCain. My first vote was for Johnson in 64. and I've voted Democratic every time since then. But the Obama People have so turned me off that this time. I don't know. Do you really think that being assholes as winners will help your cause?
Busboy
· 1 year ago
Most people in the USA want the same things. A good job, good schools, help for the needy, fair taxes, policies that encourage entrepeneurs, affordable health care, secure retirement, affordable housing and food, gasoline, electricity and major appliances. Unfortunately, neither major party has the slightest idea how to accomplish these things and actually has passed idiotic legislation which is counterproductive. Obama and McCain both have rare opportunities to champion you and me, the people of the USA. Whoever steps forward will win in November.
red_dwarf
· 1 year ago
Obama and McCain both have rare opportunities to champion you and me..
Busboy - McCain may "champion" you - but I hardly doubt you speak for many here. McCain is an advocate of death and destruction - not to mention a pathological liar, etc. Whoever steps forward - LOL. McCain's an asshole, plain and simple. Nice try though.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Major appliances?
Sounds like "Let's Make A Deal."
Busboy
· 1 year ago
The devil made me say it.......
mirth
· 1 year ago
How patriotic of you, mush 57!
So stay home and have your snit fit. We don't need you and judging by your comment, we don't want you.
mush57
· 1 year ago
the problem you have is that us "old people" vote. Your NYU students sometimes vote. and to write us off because you think we will be neutralized by some true believer is a fools game. It is a mistake to "piss us off'
Gray62
· 1 year ago
"We don't need you and judging by your comment, we don't want you." Ha! Without Clinton supporters, Obama will have a hard time getting even 30% of the vote in the general election. And you not only need Clintonistas for your dreams of "change" having a chance to become true, you obviously also need someone helping you doing simple math.
RevDrBillyBob
· 1 year ago
Hillary's supporters should -- logically -- support McCain (anointed by God, doncha know), since Hillary is closer to McCain in her views than she is to Obama. But you godless heathen libruls prob'ly don't "get" that.
All Comments
DNC Rules & Bylaws Protest 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DesyhrRYtB0
sounds more like GOPers
If Obama was a child prodigy and finished Harvard at age 16, helped find a cure for cancer, in some of the minds of these women he would still be just an inadequate black man, a nig(bleep,bleep).
And their legacy has backfired and imploded.
I still hope Obama appoints her to SCOTUS; let corporate America live in fear. ;-)
Good God.
From this mornings SF Chronicle:
Erik Meinhardt, 20, a student at Ohio State University, said he will write Clinton's name in on his November ballot, an act of revolt some Clinton supporters are advocating.
"He's so inexperienced I can't even believe people would vote for him, that they fell for all that," Meinhardt said. "The media has treated Hillary like s- and basically gave Obama the go-ahead without asking any questions. Hillary's been doing this her entire life. Obama's been in the Senate for two years and now all of a sudden he wants to be president. How arrogant."
----------------------------------------------------------
The presidency is not some prize awarded to those who have been gobbling at the public trough the longest. If that were the case, then Senator McCain "deserves" the job far more than Hillary, who has been an elected official just how long??? Arrogance is trying to don the mantle of your husband's work history and flaunting it as your own.
Asshole
I love that you signed your reply "asshole". That's really to cute!
Mandy Grunwald and Matt Cooper are married. Cooper is literally embedded with the Clinton campaign. God, I hope their kids are well-connected, EARLY! Something like a pre-birth job contract with the Clintons.
Shiver me timbers........LOL
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=M...
What's most hurtful, I think, is the language these Clinton supporters are using that's, well, hysterical. They're comparing the "loss" of votes to Zimbabwe; they're comparing Dean to the Nazis; they're using words like "hijack". These are the words of unhinged people, and they aren't helping our cause. They rile people up more and more, and they should be ashamed. All of 'em.
And the superdelegates. I had blamed the party, but frankly they acted responsibly yesterday. I need to send them some money.
But the supers -- where are they today? What does it take to signal that we must get this done? Does she have the supers banked? What the hell is going on here?
www.openleft.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=A40179...
Let's hope the nomination is over by this time next week. Let's pray that the Clinton's lose with some grace and dignity. Taking it to the convention is no way to unite the party. But the Clintons are all about the Clintons, period. That is why this 52 year old working white woman and Navy veteran voted for Obama.
If the Hillary supporters cannot get over the loss and vote for McBush, they have themselves to blame when they find their sons and daughters drafted and sent off to war.
I always thought Bill Clinton was a Republican in Democrat's clothing. Who signed NAFTA; who fast-tracked China, who deregulated the banking industry and brought us the sub-prime debacle. Our country cannot afford another Clinton (or Bush). Hillary recently said she would consider bombing Iran. Hillary voted to invade Iraq. She still won't take that vote back because, like Bush, Hillary will not admit to a mistake.
Go Obama, go Democrats. Let's go forward and never go back.
Why don't you also pray for the Obama camp to win "with some grace and dignity"?
This would be nice, for a change. So far, their efforts at it aren't impressive at all. Looks like they WANT to drive voters away, like John already does.
Can someone tell me where the supers are today? What the hell is going on here?
If I thought as you did, I wouldn't disbelieve Hils supposed comment taht she will "work her heart out" to help elect the democratic candidate!
I will believe it when I see it and hear it in action.
His supporters shouldn't have gone for the four vote shift, then.
Obama most probably won't need those four delegates, but "stealing" them from the Clinton camp ruined any impression of "generosity" that may have come up.
A dumb move, imho.
and John is right, and Democrat who supports Hillary's scorched earth policy needs to join Lie berman in the former Democrat line.
FRACK EM! Either move forward or find your own damned bus to ride.
Great scif-fi and a great commentary on post 9/11 America.
That being said, I've often thought about the race vs. gender thing. My question would be, does Obama have the advantage over Clinton because he's a man (not a black man, just a man)? I wonder if there is an underlying sexism that still assumes women shouldn't be in any positions of power, and well President is pretty much the top of the lot.
The sexism is there, and this election has really brought it out in media persons I used to have a deep respect for, like Keith Olbermann.
Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not saying it's easier to be black than a woman or vice-versa, I'm just trying to provide something else to think about. It sure seems to be easier to be sexist than racist.
I don't know if this makes any sense, but I needed to throw in my two cents. I've always loved your blog writings! :-)
problem (as it seems to be more and more these days, heh.). There's really
no way to know what the group-think was, but the media decided they wanted
Obama and have been a lot more lax on him than her. However, we have to take
into account that she's stuck her foot in her mouth many more times than he
has during this campaign too.
I've never been a big Clinton fan myself. Ever since I saw her in an
interview from Iraq with McCain and they were both nodding their heads in
agreement regarding how to proceed in the War, I was done with her. What
strikes me though is that with all her horrible campaign practices, she
still manages to bring out the voters and keep it close.
I don't think the sexism (or any racism or bigotry for that matter) was
developed overnight, I just think this campaign, because of it's uniqueness
to Presidential campaigns in this country, has brought it all a little more
to the surface.
If only there could be an issues-only campaign! :-)
~Dani
I've had female bosses most of my career and I've never had any problems with it.
But Hillary just makes me sick.
When I vote for a woman for President, it will be because of her ability; not that of her husband. Hillary is always talking about her eight years of experience in the White House. Was she the President? From what I have read, she did not even have a security clearance. Will Laura Bush run for President and talk about her eight years of experience?
I voted for Obama because he is the best person for the job. I am also a white working woman who attained all I have due to my own ability and hard work. I will not vote for a woman merely because she is a woman. There is too much at stake in this election cycle to be so shallow.
I also object to Hillary's math. She claims to have the popular vote, but to do so, she does not count the voters of Maine (where I live) and other states who held caucuses. She claims that white people will only vote for her, yet Obama won in Maine by overwhelming margins. The last time I looked, Maine was the whitest state in the nation. She also lays claim to older voters. Again, Maine went for Obama and Maine is also the oldest state in the nation.
Back in the day, there was a saying "As Maine goes, so goes the nation". Let that be so again. The old white people here in Maine (myself included) love Obama.
It is my dearest hope that all the folks that say they won't vote for Obama will think again. I fear for the world if McCain is elected President.
Yes. . .no one likes to lose. And perhaps Clinton wouldn't have lost if she hadn't kissed up to the demonizing Right, chose to run in an election year where her negative ratings were sky-high, could deal with a nasty corporate press, or if she had actually considered a positive campaign to appeal to an American electorate sick and tired of divisive sniping. Well, she didn't. Her handlers chose, instead, to echo all of the same nasty-ass bullsh*t that Republidcans have been running on (and winning) for the last decade - and that crap doesn't fly with the American people today.
Hillary Clinton is not the only woman in this country who could run for President.. .and she is certainly not the best candidate for any party. The Clinton baggage has so many chains that it is inconceivable why she ran this time anyway instead of letting more time go by to establish herself as an independent identity.
What behooves me is how these people wail and gnash with anger that she didn't secure the nomination when they were told all along by the Clintons (and the Republicans) that Hillary would be the nominee. They claim the black man is responsible for holding the white woman down, so they'll vote for the old white man who calls his second wife a "c--t." Go figure. They prefer stacking the Supreme Court with old white male ideologues who will guarantee making them permanent second class citizens, and why? Because Hillary didn't get the precious she considered an entitlement. If these people cannot get it through their thick heads that this is exactly what the problem is in this country, then they ARE the problem. They vote for the same-old-crap, and then spend eight years bitching about the same-old-crap, and the country continues to go down the toilet because none of them have the courage to stand up and say "enough."
Well, Obama might end up not delivering everything. He might end up being a populist leader without enough clout to get everything done. But at least he wants to be president of ALL the United States, instead of some fragmented "i'm-better-than-you" base which spends the next four years trying to victimize and get revenge on political enemies instead of serving the country.
Nothing in Hillary Clinton's campaign indicated to me any real desire to unify this nation for any purpose beyond putting together a patchwork of divided groups just to secure her election. That just doesn't fly with me any longer with any candidate. I'm sick and tired of being told that I have to put a Republican-created divided nation in front of my whole country and then sit back for four years while my government does nothing about real problems and spends all its time trying to persecute political enemies.
Enough is enough. I've been told to accept that all politicians are liars - that they are crooked, empty suits only interested in personal gain. Well, what kind of system is that to pass off on the world as the "last great hope of mankind?" If our government has become so rotted that the American people have no confidence that they can ever elect an honest public official, what more do conservatives need to do to finish destroying the country? We can't believe in our media. We can't believe in our institutions. We can't believe in our judiciary, because we are told that any decision not based in right-wing ideology is "activist." We can't believe our President, because lying is considered conservatively correct as long as ideology is served above country. We can't believe our Congress because it constantly fights to demonize each other over searching for real ways to serve the interests of the people in this nation.
I don't care how many Hillary supporters and how many conservatives claim that Obama's message of change and hope is shallow and bogus. What matters is that SOMEONE was smart enough to even address that chord with the American people - and the reaction at Obama rallies clearly indicates that chord needs to be addressed. And what do we get from the media and the pundits and the opposition candidates? More trash.
I think people are beginning to realize what loving America is really all about. And there isn't a Republican candidate, nor a certain Democratic candidate who cannot accept defeat, who can change that reality by clouding and deflecting the issues with flag pins and reverends. We are tired of the bullshit and of a government which serves itself before the people who are supposed to be its masters.
When the primaries began I knew my preference stood no realistic chance and I made the decision to back Edwards. Not my ideal candidate but one I could wholeheartedly back nonetheless. Though I was quite disappointed he dropped out right before California I accepted the fact that I had two choices left to choose from that were quite a bit away from my end of the political spectrum. A large part of my decision between the two was based on the electability issue. Both candidates were for beginning withdrawal of the troops and both were for similar universal healthcare plans. Two issues very important to me. Both candidates also had (have) flaws as well. The opposition to TRUE equal rights for gays, lesbians, and transexuals being the most important to me.
After a lot of thought on both candidates I made my choice. I chose Obama. What transpired in the weeks following was both shocking and unimaginable to me. By the end of March my support for Obama and absolute disgust for Clinton were cemented. I will always remember how profound the change was for me going from almost voting for Clinton to holding her in utter contempt in little over a month. It wasn't feel-good emotions either. I was left both embarrassed and ashamed of my previous support for the Clintons. I will never forget the sense of betrayal to our country and our party I feel.
Is Obama perfect? Hell no. Absolutely not. What I do know is that he has run an incredible campaign by achieving the biggest come from behind, out of almost nowhere primary wins in my life. I truly think the guy has run a class-act campaign and I have no problem giving him my complete support even with his flaws. Ultimately this is a battle to destroy the republicans this coming election. I have no doubt whatsoever at this point that the guy can and will lead the way to that. As much as the whole "change" meme bugged me throughout his campaign, I can smell the change in the air and I think I get it now. I am definitely much more inspired than I was in the last presidential election. Before the primaries started I thought this was Clinton's nomination to lose. I now realize it was Obama's to win and for that I say "Great job sir!"
I firmly believe Obama is the better candidate but will support either in the general election
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/200...
oops.
Pretty interesting.
Nice work, Hillary.
Barely showed up at all.
And of course, no one said he was God's gift (like creating straw men, do you?) -- he's just an incredibly talented and gifted politician. Sort of like Bill Clinton was when he first arrived on the scene.
Which reminds me: have you heard? It's Barack Obama's party now.
And the continuing vilification of another Democratic by Obama's supporters hardly strikes us as representing "a new kind of politics" -- Obama's one big theme -- shown to be a lie by his own supporters.
So, no, it's not "his" party, it's the voters, and unless something changes dramatically, it's a party headed for failure in November -- BECAUSE of Obama, not in spite of him.
May all those in the GOP suck the big one for the next 50 years. I'll NEVER give them the time of day, or a second of my time. In my mind they are traitors, liars, criminals, and pathetic excuses for humans. They can all kiss my a** - I can't wait until the day comes where they have NO power, and no one is listening.
Once we get rid of the corporate whores on the Supreme Court that should be the end of them, for at least two generations.
Hilary's supporters are correct in this. You show me one white woman who's become a rapper or an NBA superstar and I'll chuckle right along with you...
Oh well. I guess it's enough that it's snark.
She's going back to New Yawk.
Does this mean a 'suspending my candidacy' speech will be coming on Tuesday?
Stay tuned.
If these woman would vote for McCain over Obama it means that they were never going to vote for him in the first place. Out of spite they would vote for a candidate that would continue to send young men and women to their deaths in Iraq and probably Iran. They would vote for a candidate that would make sure Roe v Wade is overturned. They would vote for a candidate that could care less about the health care and the poor. Maybe some of her supporters should have their right to vote, revoked (joking, but not).
Hillary broke this and she has to fix it.
I wonder if Hillary will have a big celebration on her Puerto Rico win, with streamers and balloons and a big victory speech.
Having two strong candidates is a fiasco? Because Obama's lead is so overwhelming, or what?
Neither his delegate count nor his popular vote numbers seem to be overwhelming. And he lost a lot of momentum in the last weeks.
Even with his nomination all but sealed, he's still losing races. But you say Clinton, who still has a chance to win, should have dropped out.
Yeah, how dare she challege your favorite candidate...
8-|
The Democratic Party's rules have been waived by that committee on previous occasions. It could have waived the rule which Michigan and Florida supposedly violated (although in the case of Florida, the Republican legislature, not the Democratic Party, set the primary date). The Rules Committee broke its own rules and the party constitution (which is controlled by conventions) when it took five Michigan delegates away from Hillary and gave them to Obama and when it took all the delegates away from Uncommitted status and awarded them to Obama, whose name wasn't even on the ballot by his choice.
The Clinton campaign has every right to be upset.
I think you are far too kind to some on Clinton's staff. People like those you mentioned stand against all of the ethical guidelines that I consider important for a viable Democratic candidate and party. They have regularly spread lies and disinfomation, which most egregiously included Republican talking points and smears, in order to gain an advantage for their candidate. There have been so many last straws with these people over the last several months that I long ago lost count. If Barack Obama is sincere about bringing change to Washington, it must start with rejecting the Rovian, Clintonian politics (and there is hardly a difference any more) practiced by Ickes and Wolfson. And that means refusing to bring them on board. Even if they promised to clean up their act, who could trust these people not to try and sabotage Obama's campaign, or the progressive reform that is ongoing in the Democratic party?
It's time for the DLC wing of the Democratic party to, as Bill Clinton would say, "just go away".
While I don't really like those centrists, this sure looks like many of you Obama supporters follow an "divide et decadere" strategy to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Interesting.
Did you folks ever waste a single thought on that it will be your fault, too, by insulting and driving away Dem voters, if Obama loses in November?
:-|
Let's not pretend here that, if Clinton had been the nominee, that the Democratic Party was going to win in November. Throughout this entire campaign season, the starting "frontrunner" has been losing sujpport among members of her own party - and bleeding it so badly that she resorted to kissing the butts of some of the most outrageous right-wingnuts just to pander for some more votes. If you think for one moment that a Clinton nomination would have magically produced this huge effort from the majority of the Democratic Party - after her divisive primary campaign - think again. She couldn't raise money. . .her vocal support wasn 't producing the bucks. . .which means her support at the core was SOFT and easily swayed. There was no excuse for her to run this time, given the outrageously high negative ratings AND her ability to rally Repubilcans to vote against her in the general election.
Didn't she have the highest positive, or at least on of the highest, too? Hmm?
"Clinton has no real legislative experience, does she?"
Being in the US Senate since 2000 is "no real legislative experience"??? Idiot.
"She couldn't raise money"
She raised more money in the primary than any other candidate before, except Obama. And Obama has been endorsed by MoveOn. Subtract this money, and his fundrasing isn't so stellar anymore.
"There was no excuse for her to run this time"
No excuse, other than this is what Democracy is made of, of course. Everybody who is elligible CAN run. Nobody needs excuses.
And absolutely certainly nobody needs your allowance, or maybe that of Aravosis, to run. Who do you think you are? The ghost of George Washington???
Right now, she's comparing notes. Both her and Joe lost primary seasons to an insurgent Democrat. Joe survived it though by going 3rd party and promising he'd still be a dem, then upon election went neocon big time.
I think Hillary will do the same thing. The circumstances are nearly identical.
The Democratic race for nomination is still very much alive – and most likely to be decided by superdelegates – as CNN points out clearly
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/20/prim...
If you’re tired of waiting around for those super delegates to make a decision already, go to LobbyDelegates.com and push them to support Clinton or Obama
If you haven't done so yet, please write a message to each of your state's superdelegates at http://www.lobbydelegates.com
Obama Supporters:
Sending a note to current Obama supporters lets them know it's appreciated, sending a note to current Clinton supporters can hopefully sway them to change their vote to Obama, and sending a note to the uncommitted folks will hopefully sway them to vote for Obama. It's that easy...
Clinton Supporters too …. !
It takes a moment, but what's a few minutes now worth to get Clinton in office?! Those are really worth !
Sending a note to current Clinton supporters lets them know it's appreciated, sending a note to current Obama supporters can hopefully sway them to change their vote to Clinton, and sending a note to the uncommitted folks will hopefully sway them to vote for Clinton. It's that easy...
The Democratic race for nomination is still very much alive – and most likely to be decided by superdelegates – as CNN points out clearly
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/20/prim...
If you’re tired of waiting around for those super delegates to make a decision already, go to LobbyDelegates.com and push them to support Clinton or Obama
If you haven't done so yet, please write a message to each of your state's superdelegates at http://www.lobbydelegates.com
Obama Supporters:
Sending a note to current Obama supporters lets them know it's appreciated, sending a note to current Clinton supporters can hopefully sway them to change their vote to Obama, and sending a note to the uncommitted folks will hopefully sway them to vote for Obama. It's that easy...
Clinton Supporters too …. !
It takes a moment, but what's a few minutes now worth to get Clinton in office?! Those are really worth !
Sending a note to current Clinton supporters lets them know it's appreciated, sending a note to current Obama supporters can hopefully sway them to change their vote to Clinton, and sending a note to the uncommitted folks will hopefully sway them to vote for Clinton. It's that easy...
If Barry wants votes, he'll have to kiss ass to get them. Period!!!!!!!!!!
Sure way to lose the general election, John. This is really dumb, dumb, dumb.
In fact, the whole story is counterproductive, doing much more harm than good for Obama.
That's not the way to heal the rifts. Well, did you ever think of the possibility that McSame may win with just a hundred votes or so in November?
I'm sure you already drove more than that away from eventually voting for Obama with your insulting mammers recently.
:-/
Take her latest speech Tuesday night and this little load of crap she dropped:
. . . You have voted because you wanted to take back the White House, and because of you, we won together the swing states necessary to get to 270 electoral votes. . .
For one; she DIDN’T “win those States”; she won the Primary races in those States. Second, a “Primary Win” does mean a “General Election Win”; had Gore won New Hampshire, a State that Bush lost in the Primaries to McCain in 2000, we would never be discussing hanging chads in Florida as that they would not have been relevant to the outcome of that election.
All Hillary did with that lie is try to con the Super Delegates into thinking she can, with an national negative rating of over 50%, win the general election.
Oh please. You can't be serious about this.
Busboy - McCain may "champion" you - but I hardly doubt you speak for many here. McCain is an advocate of death and destruction - not to mention a pathological liar, etc. Whoever steps forward - LOL. McCain's an asshole, plain and simple. Nice try though.
Sounds like "Let's Make A Deal."
So stay home and have your snit fit.
We don't need you and judging by your comment, we don't want you.
Ha! Without Clinton supporters, Obama will have a hard time getting even 30% of the vote in the general election.
And you not only need Clintonistas for your dreams of "change" having a chance to become true, you obviously also need someone helping you doing simple math.