AMERICAblog: Full Dem caucus will vote on Lieberman's fate
ron071
· 1 year ago
The Lieberman issue is not one of spine but politics. We all know what Lieberman is and that will always be his punishment. He has disgraced himself as a Democrat and is widely known as a political traitor. Had he any decency he would leave the party of his own volition. GO JOE GO!!!!
SINGING_TROLL
· 1 year ago
It is an issue of 'spineless politics'
scytherius
· 1 year ago
Can't stand Lieberman. Think he should be booted. Can't stand Reid or Pelosi.
Having said that, I DO trust Obama and I think he's earned the right to be trusted. And I do agree with ron072, it's more a matter of politics than spine (though with reid I'm convinced it's lack of spine).
Anyway, Obama wasn't conventional and sure didn't do with his campaign what many of us wanted . . . .and I am now glad he didn't. So . . . I trust his judgment even if I don't like it.
dad
· 1 year ago
nancy reid chris dudd joe liarman
Deacon_Blues
· 1 year ago
If I'm not mistaken, it's a *secret* ballot. Don't know if this will give them cover to back him or boot him.
SINGING_TROLL
· 1 year ago
Yeah. Who counts those fuckin' ballots?
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
cheney.
naschkatzehussein
· 1 year ago
I hope it is a secret ballot. The ballot of the steering committee was supposed to have been secret, but with the whole caucus voting, I'm not certain.
ComradeRutherford
· 1 year ago
Hey, the Democrats are NOT spineless. They are all GOP operatives. It's pretty obvious. Why else do they talk like progressives, but act like conservatives? They've been double-agents ever since I can remember, back when they refused to prosecute Reagan for his flaunting of the US Constitution by selling arms to Iran to fund the illegal and immoral war in Central America? The Democratic leadership has been in collusion with the Conservatives for decades now. We should stop pretending they are different than the Conservatives.
SINGING_TROLL
· 1 year ago
can I get a witness!
dad
· 1 year ago
establishment Democrats will be as resistant and difficult as establishment republicans.
Speaking of Spineless Wonders! ~ will no one a stance against Container Supply Co., Inc. & Robert Hurtt? They manufacture containers for BREMNER WAFERS, ALMOND ROCA, MOTHER'S CARNUBA WAX, BARDAHL OIL TREATMENT & MORE. Together, they donated over 500K to pass Proposition 8. Check out the Container Supply Co., Inc. website: http://www.containersupplycompany.com/secondary... It has been a week since the election & there is no boycott of these products. Americablog.com can send a significant message by calling for boycotts.
its still going to be a matter of "Do I really want to be the first one to say 'let's kick him out'? nah, let someone else do it first and gauge the reaction."
there'll have to be a TON of behind the scenes whispering along the lines of 'which way are you voting?' before a majority would castigate lieberman.
Report: Hamas says its officials met Obama aides before U.S. election
By Avi Issacharoff, Haaretz Correspondent
Tags: Israel News, Hamas
The Arab daily Al-Hayat on Tuesday quoted a senior Hamas official as saying that United States President-elect Barack Obama's advisors met with members of the Palestinian militant group before the U.S. presidential election.
SINGING_TROLL
· 1 year ago
Wait until he talks with Castro!
Butch1
· 1 year ago
If they blow it yet again, this will have been the last time they have my vote until they stop drinking their own kool-aid.
marxtone
· 1 year ago
Hate to get all Cosa Nostra on him, but we wait because we don't want to make us into villagers with pitchforks. I understand the desire for payback, but we must wait till no one is looking to slip him the political shiv. But while we wait we milk as many votes out of him as we can that support the new agenda. LIEberman is a quisling, but a useful one for the moment.
Vandals target home with pro-Obama signs in Torrance Incidents involving swastikas and racial slurs were reported Sunday in the Hollywood Riviera area. They are being investigated as possible hate crimes, police say. By Ruben Vives 12:09 PM PST, November 11, 2008
Vandals spray-painted swatiskas and racial slurs on the home and cars of several Torrance residents who had displayed campaign signs or bumper stickers supporting President-elect Barack Obama, authorities said today. The incidents occurred Saturday night in the Hollywood Riviera section of the city, said Sgt. Bernard Anderson. Four separate incidents were reported the next day between 7 a.m. and 9 a.m., he said.
ObamaLover
· 1 year ago
At the very least this must be very embarrassing for him even if he does keep his chairmanship. Public embarrassment is a form of punishment... right?
johnt66
· 1 year ago
We need the names of all the people who are going to vote and send as many e-mails, saying he shouldn't keep his chairmanship because there has to be some accountability.
johnt66
· 1 year ago
Please go to www.LiebermanMustGo.com,sgin the petition,send e-mail to all the people who will vote,there names are there to be sent e-mail letting them know there has to be accountability, do this after you see the video, it's up to us.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
Open vote = accountability. Secret vote = deniability. I favor accountability.
BroD
· 1 year ago
Obama is right to should stay out of this: it's Senate business. And it's nice that Obama doesn't hold grudges-- but I do. Allowing Lieberman to continue as Chairman of a major committee would be a slap in the face to millions of rank & file Democrats. Remember that he ran against the Democratic nominee for his seat. And how many phone calls did we make and how many households did we have to canvass door to door to overcome the damage he did by his self-serving and despicable smears of our nominee for president?
*^&^#%$#@# the )*^%$@#$, dammit!
Mitchla
· 1 year ago
I detest Traitor Joe. But I think we should just let this go. I just don't think this is where the energy should be going. He was hateful, but not illegal. So rather than spend energy on vengeance, I'd rather spend it on justice: pursuing the criminal activity of the last eight years that weakened our democracy. Revenge feels good. But justice feels better. Let's be unreasonably big.
green_libertarian
· 1 year ago
Loserman's gonna play the martyr card on this, BIG TIME.
I say it again, cut a deal with Olympia Snowe to switch to the Dems (Maine just voted overwhelming blue in every election except for Collins), THEN kick LIEberman screaming and whining to the curb, HARD.
BTW, does Bernie Sanders get a vote on this?
naschkatzehussein
· 1 year ago
Chris Bowers of Open Left says that he thinks not. If you go to John's link on TPM, there is another link to Chris Bowers on how he thinks it will go. It's pretty interesting, and Chris is a little optimistic that Lieberman will lose.
SINGING_TROLL
· 1 year ago
Ahhhhh yes! GIVE HIM THE SWIRLY!!!
newsview
· 1 year ago
It will not be a public vote....it will be closed caucus vote. As it should be....and i am NO fan of Joe L.
HelenaMontana
· 1 year ago
This is why the Dems will only hold their majority for two years--they're have no courage. As soon as the memory of Bush has faded a bit, the GOP will stage a comeback and the Dems, as usual, won't so much as put up a fight.
SINGING_TROLL
· 1 year ago
It's not THEM this time. It is US. We are the ones allowing people like Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, OBVIOUS REPUBLICAN OPERATIVES SINCE FOREVER, to control OUR party. As long as we allow them to lead, the March to Fascism will continue, unabated.
'gonna hurl myself against the wall cuz I'd rather feel bad than not feel anything at all ---Zevon
Smarmy
· 1 year ago
Lieberman's antics embarrass the state of CT.
boloboffin
· 1 year ago
I predict:
1. Lieberman will keep his chair. 2. The Senate will again make all assignments immune to caucus switching during the 111th. 3. At the slightest provocation from any quarter, anywhere, within a month of Obama being sworn in, Lieberman will switch caucuses and begin hammering Obama 4. Obama is therefore a one-term President
I want to be wrong.
Jimbo62
· 1 year ago
I too, hate Joe Lieberman and wish they would exact some revenge on him, but I think Obama and the dems are making a savvy move on this one. I thought it through, kicking him out, stripping him of his chairmanship and then what. Then he becomes the media's go to guy, Mr. Independent-former democrat-former dem VP candidate. It would open up a problem that Obama doesn't need if he wants to succeed. I like revenge as much as the next testosterone riddled guy, but the practical side of me sees why they are making this move. I think they should still strip him of his chairmanship, though.
SINGING_TROLL
· 1 year ago
Let us PUNISH our party LOYALISTS and give into McLieberman. He deserves the chair, not them! The AUDACITY to think that by following party rules and contributing to the growth of the Democrat party, these LOYALISTS who are IN LINE for the posts, would actually ever get them.
Nope. If you want to hit the bigtime like ol Holy Joe has, you gotta FUCK your buddy AND your party.
Big fricking SPIT on all who vote with McShitheaderman
SINGING_TROLL
· 1 year ago
Let us lead by EXAMPLE. Let us show the other, shall we say, more naive Democrats, that the way to power in our party is to SIDE WITH REPUBLICANS.
kiki
· 1 year ago
If the Dems decide to keep him, it will make me wonder what the heck is going on. Keeping him doesn't smell right in Denmark.
vwcat
· 1 year ago
I dislike Lieberman alot. I think he is a true traitor and only concerned about his own neck. However, I can understand why the democrats in the Senate are having a hard time. It is a small group who work together everyday, have done battle together (even with Lieberman at their side at times). Many have known him for many years before he became a turncoat. Some think he may be rebelling because of the 06 election and acting out and wanting to see if he'll grow out of it. Some have been friends with the man for years. For Some he may have done some very decent things when say a mother or father passes away, or a kid gets in trouble, ect. It has to be somewhat conflicting and sad for them. I am not saying it is okay or anything. I am just saying I can understand why it may be hard for them to do the final act of kicking him out for good. It has nothing to do with spines but, with hearts. It's heartbreaking to find a good friend, long time coworker and cohort to turn traitor is all.
henrythefifth
· 1 year ago
Seriously. Joe and his SUPEREGO must be loving this.
You should start a contest John--just what would one have to do to be kicked out of the Senate Dem Caucus? I mean, what hasn't he done????
If Dems lose Lieberman's vote, so be it. No vote is worth the shit they're dragging themselves through. What suckers.
tangodaddy
· 1 year ago
It is good that Obama stay out of senate business let them decide Joes fate. If he is out thats good and the decision was made beyond his control. If he stays Pesident Obama only has to reach into the aisle not across it. This can be seen as a bipartisan move .
socal
· 1 year ago
This is one of those times when events are seemingly inexplicable on the face of it. Let me postulate that Lieberman is the front man, water-carrier for AIPAC. He heads committees that are important to their agenda. Lieberman tows the line for war in Iraq, bombing Iran and inexplicable attacks on Venezuela's democratically elected (3 times) leader. Lieberman is their man. We all know the power AIPAC wields in Congress. Isn't it beyond belief that Lieberman could have done all he has done to help Republicans while attacking Obama's patriotism, and yet, the leaders in the Democratic Party are almost mute. This is a case for Ockham's razor.
lovepeaceandallthat
· 1 year ago
This is a tough one to call! As someone said below, I also trust Obama. To a certain extent. And, for me, that extent includes the Lieberman problem. I am sure he has listened to many, many adivsors on this issue (this is how Obama works) and to say that he is spineless (or even that other Dems are) is really missing the point.
Just because he makes a political move that seems on the surface to be giving in, does not mean that in actuality he has suddenly gone soft. To be honest, I think THAT view is thinking very simplisticly about human communication, let alone politics. The one thing Obama isn't is simple. It isn't easy to judge him by one move he makes because he is sooooo focused on long term goals and how best to meet them. Knocking over "bad guys" like Lieberman (and he is a bad guy, and he has had years to prove it) isn't always the smart move -- even in war. Look how many times in the campaign Obama refused to go negative, or to harp on an issue past it's usefulness, or to take advantage of an obvious weakness in his opponent. He is a practical guy. And he won the freaking election doing it HIS way. I think that aspect of the campaign is just as historical as him being our first black president.
Obama is brilliant in seeing the big picture. He is also passionately a believer in post-partisan politics. I think he really means it when he talks about a new kind of politics. More interestingly, he is a master at turning a negative into a positive -- or, like in the martial arts, he always knows his weak points and his strong points, and the same with his adversary's. The traditional way of dealing with an political opponent is to try to weaken and smash him as much as possible. But often that just serves to give the opponent MORE power. (It's the Law of Attraction thing....) I think he just needs to play is slow and cool. He knows there is more than one way to skin a cat.
However, the Dems in Congress are another story. By and large, they have proven over and over that they DO give in. I do NOT trust them. They should be speaking up right now about the scams that are being played on us in regards to the bailout. Incredible stuff and they don't seem to be doing anything about it. But how can we judge Obama in his first few days with power in the same way we judge those who have a PROVEN record of not having a spine?
Perhaps those of us who are holding our fire will be proven to be deeply naive. But then again, who did YOU vote for? We need to give Obama a chance, and this is the perfect issue to illustrate that. We don't know what his logic is here. We don't know what he knows. I suspect he is playing a very complex game with Lieberman, and Obama is a very shrewd thinker. I do worry that Lieberman will remain in powerful roles that he should not be in. I hope there is a way to strip him of overt power while at the same time moving beyond the politics as usual. Not sure how you do that! A very tall order.
I guess I am still feeling optimistic and I also see optimism as a cornerstone of Obama's philosophy. You know, the audacity of hope and all that!
socal
· 1 year ago
The good thing is, we won't have to listen to this crap about "post-partianship politics" much longer. In this post it goes deep with things like "We don't know what his logic is" and "We don't know what he knows" and a mysterious, " complex game." The best one is, "Not sure how you do that! A very tall order." No. It is simple. Granted party discipline is almost a thing of the past, but geez, when a member of your party openly campaigns for the other party leaders and accuses your party of leader of being un-American, the answer is pretty simple. Unless, oh yeah, read my post below. These people that just discovered politics are going to be really disappointed when the (I will use the cliche here) rubber meets the road.
LeftCoastOracle
· 1 year ago
John, I believe you'll find that caucus votes such as this are secret ballot.
All Comments
Having said that, I DO trust Obama and I think he's earned the right to be trusted. And I do agree with ron072, it's more a matter of politics than spine (though with reid I'm convinced it's lack of spine).
Anyway, Obama wasn't conventional and sure didn't do with his campaign what many of us wanted . . . .and I am now glad he didn't. So . . . I trust his judgment even if I don't like it.
chris dudd
joe liarman
30 days in the hole
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwWEoMM4PDY
Meanwhile, I hope the Obamas don't let Billy Ray Cyrus within 1,000 miles of Sasha and Malia.
They manufacture containers for BREMNER WAFERS, ALMOND ROCA, MOTHER'S CARNUBA WAX, BARDAHL OIL TREATMENT & MORE. Together, they donated over 500K to pass Proposition 8.
Check out the Container Supply Co., Inc. website: http://www.containersupplycompany.com/secondary...
It has been a week since the election & there is no boycott of these products. Americablog.com can send a significant message by calling for boycotts.
Additional info: http://onerealization.blogspot.com/
there'll have to be a TON of behind the scenes whispering along the lines of 'which way are you voting?' before a majority would castigate lieberman.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1036364.html
Last update - 15:58 11/11/2008
Report: Hamas says its officials met Obama aides before U.S. election
By Avi Issacharoff, Haaretz Correspondent
Tags: Israel News, Hamas
The Arab daily Al-Hayat on Tuesday quoted a senior Hamas official as saying that United States President-elect Barack Obama's advisors met with members of the Palestinian militant group before the U.S. presidential election.
Leastways, that's what I would do.
Vandals target home with pro-Obama signs in Torrance
Incidents involving swastikas and racial slurs were reported Sunday in the Hollywood Riviera area. They are being investigated as possible hate crimes, police say.
By Ruben Vives
12:09 PM PST, November 11, 2008
Vandals spray-painted swatiskas and racial slurs on the home and cars of several Torrance residents who had displayed campaign signs or bumper stickers supporting President-elect Barack Obama, authorities said today. The incidents occurred Saturday night in the Hollywood Riviera section of the city, said Sgt. Bernard Anderson. Four separate incidents were reported the next day between 7 a.m. and 9 a.m., he said.
Secret vote = deniability.
I favor accountability.
*^&^#%$#@# the )*^%$@#$, dammit!
I say it again, cut a deal with Olympia Snowe to switch to the Dems (Maine just voted overwhelming blue in every election except for Collins), THEN kick LIEberman screaming and whining to the curb, HARD.
BTW, does Bernie Sanders get a vote on this?
We are the ones allowing people like Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, OBVIOUS REPUBLICAN OPERATIVES SINCE FOREVER, to control OUR party.
As long as we allow them to lead, the March to Fascism will continue, unabated.
'gonna hurl myself against the wall
cuz I'd rather feel bad than not feel anything at all
---Zevon
1. Lieberman will keep his chair.
2. The Senate will again make all assignments immune to caucus switching during the 111th.
3. At the slightest provocation from any quarter, anywhere, within a month of Obama being sworn in, Lieberman will switch caucuses and begin hammering Obama
4. Obama is therefore a one-term President
I want to be wrong.
The AUDACITY to think that by following party rules and contributing to the growth of the Democrat party, these LOYALISTS who are IN LINE for the posts, would actually ever get them.
Nope. If you want to hit the bigtime like ol Holy Joe has, you gotta FUCK your buddy AND your party.
Big fricking SPIT on all who vote with McShitheaderman
However, I can understand why the democrats in the Senate are having a hard time. It is a small group who work together everyday, have done battle together (even with Lieberman at their side at times). Many have known him for many years before he became a turncoat.
Some think he may be rebelling because of the 06 election and acting out and wanting to see if he'll grow out of it. Some have been friends with the man for years.
For Some he may have done some very decent things when say a mother or father passes away, or a kid gets in trouble, ect.
It has to be somewhat conflicting and sad for them.
I am not saying it is okay or anything. I am just saying I can understand why it may be hard for them to do the final act of kicking him out for good. It has nothing to do with spines but, with hearts. It's heartbreaking to find a good friend, long time coworker and cohort to turn traitor is all.
You should start a contest John--just what would one have to do to be kicked out of the Senate Dem Caucus? I mean, what hasn't he done????
If Dems lose Lieberman's vote, so be it. No vote is worth the shit they're dragging themselves through. What suckers.
Let me postulate that Lieberman is the front man, water-carrier for AIPAC. He heads committees that are important to their agenda. Lieberman tows the line for war in Iraq, bombing Iran and inexplicable attacks on Venezuela's democratically elected (3 times) leader. Lieberman is their man.
We all know the power AIPAC wields in Congress. Isn't it beyond belief that Lieberman could have done all he has done to help Republicans while attacking Obama's patriotism, and yet, the leaders in the Democratic Party are almost mute.
This is a case for Ockham's razor.
Just because he makes a political move that seems on the surface to be giving in, does not mean that in actuality he has suddenly gone soft. To be honest, I think THAT view is thinking very simplisticly about human communication, let alone politics. The one thing Obama isn't is simple. It isn't easy to judge him by one move he makes because he is sooooo focused on long term goals and how best to meet them. Knocking over "bad guys" like Lieberman (and he is a bad guy, and he has had years to prove it) isn't always the smart move -- even in war. Look how many times in the campaign Obama refused to go negative, or to harp on an issue past it's usefulness, or to take advantage of an obvious weakness in his opponent. He is a practical guy. And he won the freaking election doing it HIS way. I think that aspect of the campaign is just as historical as him being our first black president.
Obama is brilliant in seeing the big picture. He is also passionately a believer in post-partisan politics. I think he really means it when he talks about a new kind of politics. More interestingly, he is a master at turning a negative into a positive -- or, like in the martial arts, he always knows his weak points and his strong points, and the same with his adversary's. The traditional way of dealing with an political opponent is to try to weaken and smash him as much as possible. But often that just serves to give the opponent MORE power. (It's the Law of Attraction thing....) I think he just needs to play is slow and cool. He knows there is more than one way to skin a cat.
However, the Dems in Congress are another story. By and large, they have proven over and over that they DO give in. I do NOT trust them. They should be speaking up right now about the scams that are being played on us in regards to the bailout. Incredible stuff and they don't seem to be doing anything about it. But how can we judge Obama in his first few days with power in the same way we judge those who have a PROVEN record of not having a spine?
Perhaps those of us who are holding our fire will be proven to be deeply naive. But then again, who did YOU vote for? We need to give Obama a chance, and this is the perfect issue to illustrate that. We don't know what his logic is here. We don't know what he knows. I suspect he is playing a very complex game with Lieberman, and Obama is a very shrewd thinker. I do worry that Lieberman will remain in powerful roles that he should not be in. I hope there is a way to strip him of overt power while at the same time moving beyond the politics as usual. Not sure how you do that! A very tall order.
I guess I am still feeling optimistic and I also see optimism as a cornerstone of Obama's philosophy. You know, the audacity of hope and all that!
The best one is, "Not sure how you do that! A very tall order." No. It is simple. Granted party discipline is almost a thing of the past, but geez, when a member of your party openly campaigns for the other party leaders and accuses your party of leader of being un-American, the answer is pretty simple.
Unless, oh yeah, read my post below.
These people that just discovered politics are going to be really disappointed when the (I will use the cliche here) rubber meets the road.