DISQUS

AMERICAblog: Gays only major minority not welcome in Obama's cabinet

  • Fireblazes(cheetohsandcatfood) · 1 year ago
    And now for tonight's trumped up gay controversy. I didn't see any Native Americans in their either. Where are all the handicapped cabinet members? The Buddhists, Muslims, Scientologists? Surely these people supported Obama and deserve a voice too. It is getting to be like Junior High around here.
  • Mike_H · 1 year ago
    Except I don't see where Obama invited any major enemy of the Native Americans to speak prominently in his inauguration.
  • mirth · 1 year ago
    Precisely.
  • Mike_H · 1 year ago
    Uhm, white people who actively give speeches about how Native Americans aren't fully human? Don't see any of those in his cabinet.

    How about you understand the comparison, first? Not only are there no gays, there is someone given a prominent position who is actively, vocally anti-gay.

    You won't see that from Obama's camp in regards to any other minority EXCEPT for GLBT folk.

    Now I'm waiting for him to backtrack on repealing DADT. That's next. He'll say something about "not the right time" or "need more time to build consensus and bring conservatives to the table".

    In other words, no matter how strongly and how overwhelmingly people voiced their desire for change, Obama the appeaser is going to continue to let the conservative minority control the agenda.
  • Mike_H · 1 year ago
    Sorry, mirth, that wasn't really a reply to you, but to Jay and gridlock.
  • mirth · 1 year ago
    :)

    Nonetheless, you get a ^5 from me.
  • Mitch Hussein · 1 year ago
    Okay this is starting to get really silly now. As a gay black man, I can't believe some of thes outrages posts. Being gay is a sexual prefereces we have chosen to live, period. I've alway been proud to be a Black Gay MAN. But, if you don't know me then you don't know my sexual preferences unless I want you to. This crazy that because gay people voted for Obama that he owes them something. What he owes us is what he promised us, but he's not the president yet. Could this be some of your ways of saying because he's BLACK, he has to be treated differently...Here, Bush and his people just left us with a tsunamia and nobody's saying a word. Just make sure the BLACK man can hear us yelling, cause we voted for him... GET OVER IT AND GIVE THE MAN A CHANCE TO BE PRESIDENT FIRST...
  • timncguy · 1 year ago
    being gay is a preference you have "chosen" to live???? Are you nuts. Are you suggesting that you could choose to straight instead? If you answer that one yes, then you aren't gay, you're bi-sexual.

    Being sexually ACTIVE is a choice you make. Gay people have the same choice as straights. They can choose to be sexually active or can choose to be celibate. But, choosing to be celibate doesn't mean that they stop being gay. In only means that due to societal pressures and bigotry, they choose to live a lonely and loveless existence.
  • Professor_Farnsworth · 1 year ago
    How about you understand the comparison, first?
    --------------------------------

    How about you make a valid comparison? The reason you are freaking out is because your outrage is limited to something that is only in relation to you. You want to make everyone else who were left out to be lesser than you.

    You are the ones who suffer the most. mmhhmm...tell that to the native community who suffer every day at the hands of the gov't
  • Gridlock · 1 year ago
    ... yes he did, white people! LOL
  • JayR · 1 year ago
    Besides pale faced Americans you mean?
  • Professor_Farnsworth · 1 year ago
    Except I don't see where Obama invited any major enemy of the Native Americans to speak prominently in his inauguration.
    -----------------------------------------------------

    right, where were you in American history class?
  • Shalimar · 1 year ago
    Why doesn't Napolitano count?
  • GaryBrush · 1 year ago
    Yep Janet Napollitano is gay but I guess Aravosis forgot about that.
  • Moderation · 1 year ago
    I was wondering that one as well. It was a big deal when she was announced, at least it was over at DKos. :/

    So, yeah, John, what about Janet Napolitano?
  • IAmATVJunkie · 1 year ago
    There's no joy in a closet case getting a job.

    When she comes out, we'll talk about joy.
  • FredJ · 1 year ago
    None of the straight cabinets members have come out as straight either. Should all of the straight people now be outraged that they are not represented?

    The fact remains that a very well known prominent gay person has been nominated for one of the most powerful cabinet positions. Whining because she's not out (she would never have gotten as far as she has politically if she was) is complete bullshit.
  • timncguy · 1 year ago
    really, none of the straight members ofthe cabinet are married to opposite sex partenrs? They don't wear wedding rings? They didn't disclose information about their families? That's odd. I thought they vetted cabinet members spouses for possible problems. Are you suggesting that some or all of the cabinet members that have been selected may be in "sham" marriages?
  • ChrisSF · 1 year ago
    Amen. FredJ is making such a BS argument. Straights are out by virtue of the societal presumption that everyone is heterosexual, which pervades every social institution we have. Gays are only gay in the public realm if they come out. Otherwise they are presumed straight.
  • ChrisSF · 1 year ago
    Duh. Cause she's not out.
  • Apphouse50 · 1 year ago
    Exactly where on the application should "Are you openly gay?" appear?
  • ChrisSF · 1 year ago
    It actually appears (optionally) on many, many forms that seek diversity info. Personally, I put things on my resume that make it pretty clear. The only ethically proper way to find out if you have someone gay working for you is to ask and to make clear that it is not required to answer. Believe me, from experience, people appreciate knowing.
  • Apphouse50 · 1 year ago
    But how do you make it an actual criterion without being accused of discriminating on the basis of sexual preference?
  • ChrisSF · 1 year ago
    It is not a criterion any more than Eric Holder's or Colin Powell's being black, Hillary Clinton's being a woman, or Bill Richardson's being Hispanic. Just because someone has to tell you doesn' t mean it's discrimination.
  • ChrisSF · 1 year ago
    Plus, it's not exactly hard to find out who the shining lights of the LGBT movement are. Did we really have to scratch our heads to figure out Ruth Bader Ginsburg was an important advocate for women's rights or that Thurgood Marshall argued Brown v. Board of Education in the Supreme Court? This whole "but I don't know who's gay and who's not" argument is such BS.
  • nicho · 1 year ago
    Because we're talking about openly gay people -- not closet cases.
  • Savage8862 · 1 year ago
    I should have voted for McCain and Palin. At least with the two of them, I would have known what I was getting as a President and Vice President – two anti gay individuals. When I voted for Obama, I thought things would change. I, for one had the hope that we would be part of that change he promised on the stage in Denver. I thought that we would be part of the change he promised in Chicago on the night of November 4th when he said, ‘change has come to America”. Unfortunately, change has failed to come to the GLBT community. With the passage of Prop 8 in California and the other anti-gay amendments that passed in Arizona, Florida, and Tennessee, and now with Obama choosing Rick Warren to give the invocation at Obama’s inauguration, the gay community has been thrown under the bus once again. Obama has failed the GLBT community and I am extremely disappointed that I voted for someone who promised every American that change was coming. I guess I failed to realize that the gay community that I love and cherish aren’t American citizens and therefore the promise that Obama made was not for our ears. Obama just doesn’t get it and apparently my community will never achieve the promise of equality.
  • hal · 1 year ago
    God, this is sooo over the fucking top. He hasn't taken office yet. Why don't you wait until he has a chance to do any fucking thing before you decide you're life has been destroyed. You act like we are at the end of the four year Obama term. We're not. Get a fucking grip.
  • ChrisSF · 1 year ago
    Yes, well it can't be denied that he seems to have gone out of his way to throw LGBT people under the bus. That is the point.
  • dag · 1 year ago
    Too bad this site threw its lot in w/ Obama in the primary.
  • GaryBrush · 1 year ago
    Janet Napolitano is gay eventhough she isn't open about it. Also, most likely Obama will appoint the first openly gay Secretary of the Navy. Does anybody know if Bill Clinton appointed any gay cabinet members? I don't think he did.

    I agree with Fireblazes in that this is getting ridiculous that there has to be a litmus test on how many gay cabinet members Obama has appointed. Obama still has 357 more posts to fill. I am sure there will be many gays in these posts. Obama has prominent members of his team that are gay including Hilledbrand who is openly gay.
  • Fireblazes(cheetohsandcatfood) · 1 year ago
    Thanks, the dead-enders are crawling out of the woodwork. It all started to go downhill when Obama dared to pick Hillary. Now it is time to throw the baby out with the bath water.
    Time to cut off our noses to spite our faces.
  • Gary SF · 1 year ago
    How can their be a gay Secretary of the Navy? That would seem to be a violation of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, and I am sure that some nutball Republican or Southern Democrat will make an issue out of it.
  • RainbowPhoenix · 1 year ago
    As backwards as it may sound, secratary of the navy is a civilian position.
  • GaryBrush · 1 year ago
    Yep the Secretary of the Navy is a civilian post and will not violate "Don't ask, don't tell".
  • ChrisSF · 1 year ago
    Hey, does anybody know if Eisenhower, Reagan, Carter or Thomas Jefferson appointed any gay cabinet members? Yes, we should totally be happy with White House hairdresser. I totally agree, gays should go back in the closet and know their place.
  • timncguy · 1 year ago
    this post is talking about CAINYE LEVEL appointments. All the cabinet level posts have been announced. There are no openly gay members.
  • timncguy · 1 year ago
    CAINYE = CABINET
  • ChrisSF · 1 year ago
    GaryBrush=lame Obama campaign employee troll
  • ChrisSF · 1 year ago
    Hey Gary, I want to apply for chief White House fey homo protocol officer. Can you get me the inside track? Is that one of the 357 spots left? How about White House puppy trainer? Oooh, I just love how inclusive this new White House is!!!!!
  • LAMatt · 1 year ago
    IF Janet Napolitano is homosexual, she's not just not 'open about it', she's totally closeted. Isn't part of being 'gay' being open about your homosexuality?

    And Clinton had no gay cabinet members but he did have gay Sr. WH Staff members. More than Obama can say. Right now, Bush's hiring record for gays in his administration is better than Obama's.
  • ChrisSF · 1 year ago
    By the way, if Yahoo Answers can be believed, Napolitano isn't simply closeted, she has affirmatively denied being a lesbian: "Following repeated sexuality-related attacks, Arizona gubernatorial candidate Janet Napolitano announced recently that she was not a lesbian." So either she is a liar, or she is straight, or she is engaging in some Clintonesque parsing of the definition of "lesbian." Great leader and role model! Harvey Milk would be so proud!
  • smiling_dog · 1 year ago
    You have to pick your battles. And keep in mind that you don't win every one. The guy doesn't even take office for another month.
  • bDavid · 1 year ago
    i am just sick over this, sick and discussted, Rick 'the hater' Warren , i cannot believe it ...pathetic, offensive.. arghhh!
  • GaryBrush · 1 year ago
    I take it that Aravosis will not be watching the Inauguration. I will definitely be watching it. I want to hear Obama's speech.
  • nicho · 1 year ago
    Why -- he doesn't mean what he says. Why would you listen to someone who has shown that his words are just empty noises?
  • kevinbgoode · 1 year ago
    Yes...we can breathlessly wait to see if Obama says the word "gay"....and then oooo and ahhh...that we've been mentioned as real Americans in a speech.

    Of course, we'll also be reminded that we are expected to make sacrifices for our country - which really means sacrifices of our freedom for the "religious" bigots. Nothing new - no change there.
    We'll have the same separate-but-equal policy from this Administration and we'll be told to support marriage segregation.
  • Ben Dover · 1 year ago
    What St. Ricky had to say about "walking us out of homosexuality". At least before it was scrubbed from the Saddleback ATM site...

    MORE THAN WORDS conferences are being scheduled for 2007; if your church would like to host this event, contact us.

    What is MORE THAN WORDS?

    MORE THAN WORDS is a compelling 1-day conference geared to help you better understand homosexuality so you can minister to a friend or family member. You will learn how to respond to "gay theology", what the research really shows, and what your church can do.

    MORE THAN WORDS goes beyond "talk" to walking people out of homosexuality. The complexity of homosexuality will crumble as you discover the root issues, explore the biblical record and witness the dynamic truths that lead to freedom from homosexuality.

    Our churches, our schools and our culture are being bombarded with misinformation in order to legitimize homosexuality. Christians know that homosexuality is wrong, but many lack the knowledge and ability to refute the clever homosexual agenda. Millions of parents suffer silently with a homosexual son or daughter. Many pastors and counselors are ill-equipped to tackle the issue.

    MORE THAN WORDS will get you to the "bottom line" where you can make a difference by witnessing the grace, love, and power of Jesus Christ who makes "all things new."

    What Topics does MORE THAN WORDS Address?
    If a Friend Says "I'm gay"
    Loving and Reaching the Gay Community
    The Pivotal Parent
    Debunking the "Gay Gene"
    "What's a Parent to Do?"
    Untwisting "Gay Theology"
    "They didn't teach me this in Seminary!"
    Counseling the Homosexual
    Preventing Homosexuality
    A Biblical Bridge Out of Homosexuality
    The Church: "Walking by Faith, not by Fright"
    Demystifying Homosexuality
    If you are interested in hosting a MORE THAN WORDS Conference at your church- contact us!
  • samiinh · 1 year ago
    What I can't understand is how they can know how a gay person feels about being true to himself. I don't know any gay person who chose to be gay. The only choice I made was to become true to myself, the inner knowledge of who I really was. These people are charlatans and witch doctors, nothing more than snake-oil salesmen. Their religion makes me sick.
  • JayR · 1 year ago
    Any mooslims?
  • larry · 1 year ago
    how nice..did someone on the committee go to a Gay Pride parade or something? will there be a drag queen float too? Will Rick Warren be drum majorette?
  • DR · 1 year ago
    It would shock me if there were any atheists either. There's only one minority hated more than teh ghays; us atheists.
  • kevinbgoode · 1 year ago
    I'm not surprised at all. Despite the Constitution's claim that there be no "religious" litmus test to hold office, the dominionists enforce a rigid definition of "Christianity" as a requirement to hold public office. And candidates who claim to be president of ALL the people, pretend that the atheists don't exist.
  • Gary SF · 1 year ago
    A great civil rights leader who was a Baptist minister and a leader in the Southern Christian Leadership Conference has died. Oh, did I mention he also went to jail for fucking his daughter? But hey, we gays are the sick ones. . .

    The Rev. James L. Bevel, a prominent figure in the civil rights movement whose legacy was clouded by an incest conviction has died, a relative said. He was 72.

    Bevel died Friday in Virginia after a fight with pancreatic cancer, said a daughter, Chevara Orrin, who lives in Winston-Salem, N.C. He was recently released on bond while appealing a 15-year prison sentence.

    Bevel was a top lieutenant to Martin Luther King Jr. and architect of the 1963 Children's Crusade in Birmingham, Ala. But in April, a jury convicted Bevel of incest for having sex more than a decade ago with a then-teenage daughter.

    Bevel served several months of his 15-year sentence before he was released in November on bond while appealing. Prosecutors opposed Bevel's release.

    A Baptist minister, Bevel was a leader in the Southern Christian Leadership Conference and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, two of the stalwart organizations that led efforts in the 1960s to desegregate the South. Decades later, he also helped organize the Million Man March.

    "Jim Bevel was Martin Luther King's most influential aide," civil rights historian David J. Garrow said.

    Bevel fought to desegregate downtown Birmingham stores, prompting police to respond with fire hoses and attack dogs against peaceful protesters. He also rallied young people in the city to get involved in civil rights demonstrations — something King and other advisers objected to.

    On May 2, 1963, children marched from the 16th Street Baptist Church, and 600 were arrested on that first day of demonstrations. After the news media highlighted police commissioner Eugene "Bull" Connor's violent treatment of the children, public opinion began to shift in favor of the civil rights movement.

    Two years later, Bevel was a key figure in the march from Selma to Montgomery, Alabama's capital. The demonstration was spurred largely by the killing of a young protester by an Alabama state trooper. The chain of events and police violence that was captured on national television ultimately culminated in the passage of the 1965 Voting Rights Act.


    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/...
  • ezpz · 1 year ago
    Probably posted, but here again is an excellent letter to PE Obama from Professor Michael Bérubé:

    http://www.michaelberube.com/index.php/weblog/p...
  • kevinbgoode · 1 year ago
    Well, the house faggots can entertain, but they best not get uppity about wanting any tangible rights as part of their birthright as an American.

    Maybe they'll throw in an opportunity to let us serve dinner at the first big formal state bash.
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    You cannot really pretend to compare the gay experience to the slave experience?
  • kevinbgoode · 1 year ago
    I'm not pretending anything. My rights are being controlled by heterosupremacists instead of my Constitution.
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    What specific Constitutional rights are you being deprived of?

    Slaves were in chains. You could be in well appointed condo in DC enjoying wine and brie or elsewhere, but you are free and you are not in chains, at least not involuntarily. Your drama queen sissy bitch rants comparing your plight to that of the American black is sickening and belittles your cause.
  • Silverlakejim · 1 year ago
    Calling Gays "sissies" defeats your cause as well.

    I'm Black and I'm also gay. Let me get this right. Because gays have not suffered as much as Blacks, they don't get rights. Is that it?
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    I have no cause.

    Concerning your question, no that is not it. Because gays have not suffered as blacks does not mean anything to the fight for equal treatment for gays. However, to compare the American gay experience to the American slave experience is a joke and hurts an argument that can stand on its own without an ill advised and preposterous comparison
  • timncguy · 1 year ago
    I don't believe there were any blacks during the civil rights movement era that ever experienced life as a slave.
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    You miss the point. There were no house slaves in the 50s or 60s either. The post I was responding to was not referencing the 50s and 60s, but a time where slavery existed, a far more severe deprivation of rights.
  • Butch1 · 1 year ago
    How about comparing the gay experience and how they have been treated since the beginning of time? You don't think being sentenced to death is "much ado about nothing?" I really resent the "my minority was treated worse than your minority bit." I do not know of any country today who has laws that to be a black or a slave ( if you will) is punishable by death. I can name you multiple countries in the Middle East who do have them against gays. Discrimination and murder against gays and lesbians have been in effect since the beginning of time. Spare me, the blather on who has suffered more. One doesn't not determine or dismiss a minority because you think your minority has suffered more than another. Your statement was over the line, in my opinion.
  • Mitch Hussein · 1 year ago
    Again, people who are gay have a choice weither they want someone to know, people that are black don't have that option.
  • timncguy · 1 year ago
    First, that's not true. There are some gays who are certainly not able to hide their sexuality. But, more importantly, what difference does it make. Why should anyone HAVE TO HIDE their sexuality in order to be treated fairly?

    You are suggesting that gays wouldn't get fired if they would just ACT straight. Gays wouldn't be refused housing if they would just ACT straight. Gays wouldn't be beaten to death if they would just ACT straight. Gays would just have it so great if they would just ACT straight.
  • Milli · 1 year ago
    So if you can hide what white, straight Americans don't consider acceptable, everything is great. Wow. What a rich and fulfilling life.
  • Butch1 · 1 year ago
    Really? Why would a person need to hide unless they didn't feel safe as a result of a society who thinks it has the right to harass or beat a person senseless only because they are gay or perceived to be gay. Why does a black person need to hide their race even if they could? There is no choice in being gay or not being gay. Period.
  • timncguy · 1 year ago
    again i will ask you just how many blacks who were fighting for their civil right sin the 50's and 60's were kept in chains and not free? Do you believe only those blacks who were slaves deserved civil rights? Just how long do you feel that gays need to sign up and serve and slaves before qualifying for civil rights?
  • Phalamir · 1 year ago
    Amend 14:No State shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    Prop H8 (as well as DOMA) both explicitly declare gays are not equal.

    "Your drama queen sissy bitch rants comparing your plight to that of the American black"

    "As you do unto the least of these, so you do unto me." Discrimination is an absolute. Either you are treating all humans as equals or you aren't. As all sins are equally damining before the Lord, the extent and/or longevity of the abuse is irrelevent - you're either on the side of the Lord and the patriots or the side of the Advesary and the fundamentalists. MLK or Bendict Arnold: your choice.
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    Sexual orientation is not a suspect class and as far as the US Constitution goes distinctions can be made on this basis without violating the equal protection clause. State Constitutions, like California's, can grant greater protections and it does.
  • Butch1 · 1 year ago
    Excuse me, but bull sh*t!! The only reason we do not have protection as a minority on a Federal level is because of the bigots who continue to deny us that protection. One can pretend we do not exist but in reality, we need to be protected from the uncaring majority like all other minorities. It's amazing how a person can treat others once they get their own civil rights. Amazing.
  • An_American_Karol · 1 year ago
    Yeah, why don't you tell that to Matthew Shepard's family, or to all gays beaten to death for who they are, maybe the family of that young Hispanic man killed because his attackers thought he was gay.
    What degree of dead makes one minority more worthy then another?
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    These incidents are horrific and tragic. Yet gay people are free, though not as free in the marriage aspect as it should be. The comparison on a whole to the American black slave is ridiculous. Do you have the numbers on the blacks killed because they were black? The numbers enslaved? The generations impacted? Go ahead and make the argument if it makes you feel better, knowing full well it is a failed argument.
  • An_American_Karol · 1 year ago
    Gay people are NOT free to marry. They are the lowest of the low on the totem pole, the last cookies in the jar of civil rights, the soul minority group without the same rights of EVERY other group in America.
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    The denial of marriage rights is a serious problem, but that does not mean that gays have seen the suffering of the American slave.

    Any chance a Constitutional Amendment would pass in the next 15 years or so on this issue?
  • An_American_Karol · 1 year ago
    Yes.
  • Ohio_Dem · 1 year ago
    Your posts make no sense. Any chance a Constitutional Amendment would pass int he next 15 years or so on this issue. What issue?

    I can only speak for myself, but I don't personally KNOW any black American slaves. I do know many many gay people who can't be out at their job so they have to pretend to be straight and hope no one finds out, because they would lose their jobs, their careers.
    I know many gay and lesbian couples who drove up to Canada to get married before the birth of their child because they were raised with the values of their families and they wanted that piece of paper, that ceremony, that committment and tribute to their love.
    I know plenty of gay and lesbian couples who worry about losing their own children. Who have lost their family's love. Who have lost the love of the churches in which they grew up as a child.

    When I hear the government deciding which minorities can get married and which cannot, it's like a bad episode of the twilight zone. As my husband as often said to me, "How can two guys or two women getting married have ANY effect on our marriage?" It doesn't. If you don't believe in same sex marriage, don't marry someone of the same sex. Otherwise it doesn't affect anyone's marriage except the two adults involved.

    I can't even believe we have to still have this discussion. It's so unnecessary except that a bunch of religious cults decided that the entire country has to abide by their personal religious cult's beliefs.


    This is 2008. African Americans are a protected minority. They have civil rights. They can marry. They can't be denied housing or employment based on race. They are not excluded from churches based on race.

    If you want to compare african american civil rights to gay civil rights, please stop all the "slaves didn't live in condos" remarks and have a real discussion about real issues that affect real lives of tax paying law abiding citizens every day. If I were gay I swear I would refuse to pay taxes until I had equal rights.
  • An_American_Karol · 1 year ago
    Amen
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    My argument was that comparing the gay's plight to the American slave experience is a joke. My argument make sense, you are not listening.

    My Constitutional Amendment inquiry refers to the fact (yes it is a fact) that sexual orientation is not a suspect class and is not currently worthy of strict scrutiny under the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution. With that fact clear, then for uniform treatment across the states allowing gay marriage would require an amendment to the US Constitution. Any chanve this occurs?
  • Ohio_Dem · 1 year ago
    and saying slaves didnt live in condos makes sense?

    exactly what do you believe about the lgbt community? Do they deserve the same equality as african americans enjoy? Do you believe that equality for gays is a civil rights issue or not?
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    Stating that gays are free to do almost everything but marry in some states, including owning a well appointed condo in DC, and pointing out that slaves did not enjoy these same freedoms makes sense.

    Marital rights equality for gays is a civil rights issue and all should have the same marriage rights. The only way that is going to occur in all states is through a Constitutional amendment
  • Ohio_Dem · 1 year ago
    Gays are not free to "do almost everything but marry" Can you really be that uninformed? Look it up. Educate yourself.

    Hope your slaves get their condo one of these days
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    OK, you are correct. gays have suffered and continue to suffer more than any before them. It is an abolute travesty of biblical proportions.
  • Ohio_Dem · 1 year ago
    No, its a big joke to you hence the whole slaves/condo b.s. which has NOTHING to do with equality.
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    It is a joke to compare the plight of the American gay community to the plight of the American slave.
  • Ohio_Dem · 1 year ago
    You're the only person comparing gay equality in 2008 to slaves in this conversation. And it makes no sense.
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    Incorrect. I merely replied to a comment at the top of this thread that was comparing gays to the condition of house slaves. I pointed out the absurdity of this comparison and the numerous comments ensued. Any sound movement must be able to handle critical insight.
  • dula · 1 year ago
    What exactly were the Gays doing in the 1700-1800s anyway? I'm sure they were living free and open lives in their well appointed condos.
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    I never mnade the comparison to the civil rights movement. I only responded to the absurd comparison to the slave experience.
  • Butch1 · 1 year ago
    Only in your mind is it failed. Just how many gays have been stoned to death or killed some other horrific way? I am not dismissing how horrible blacks were treated as slaves or through the Jim Crow era but to dismiss another minorities suffering because you don't think they could possibly have suffered as much as blacks have is a losing argument. I also have news for you, the Irish were enslaved as well as other groups of people throughout history. Blacks do not own slavery although this country should be most embarrassed that it was culpable for the lives of those unfortunate enough to be enslaved. This wasn't strictly a white-black problem. Many African blacks were in league with the white slave ship owners and sold other blacks into slavery. Though there is still covert discrimination happening even in today's world, it is also happening against gays and lesbians. Blacks can at least go to court and fight injustices against them whereas, gays are still fighting to get the same protections that blacks have as a minority status. Sorry, but blacks are not the only people that are suffering from the abuses of the majority.

    Today, one can still be sentenced to death for being gay in this world and it wasn't until the Supreme Court ruled in this decade for Lawrence v state of Texas that it was against the law to arrest and charge gays with the crime of making love to one another.
    Let's not make this a pissing contest to see who has suffered more under unfair laws and discrimination.
  • mamazboy · 1 year ago
    tbhull = homophobe.
    if you don't know what rights aren't given to gay people, start doing your homework. Here's your first one: Gay people can be fired from a job in MOST states. Not all of us "enjoy brie and wine" in our "well appointed condo" - where do you get this shit?
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    Thanks for the label. You do not even know me, yet perhaps drunk on goo you come out with this label so commonly employed by the weak kneed and weak minded folks that lack the wherewithall to engage in meaningful discourse.

    I come up with the bs wine and brie just to piss people like you off and to demonstrate that gays are for the most part free. Not many slaves could live in a DC condo and munch on brie.
  • Milli · 1 year ago
    Gays are free "for the most part". Lets see, you can be thrown out of your family, beaten and left to die or thrown in a river by people who believe the same things you are espousing here, harassed enough as a teenager to hang yourself, lose a job, have your children taken from you, and be called whores, fags, fairies, lezbos, etc for something as simple as holding your partners hand in public.

    Free, my fucking ass. You have no clue. .
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    I suffer from all of these possibilities. I think I will urge lawmakers to pass a law so as to ensure that no one is thrown out of their families.
  • Milli · 1 year ago
    Do you even know what you're talking about?
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    Yes I do.
  • Milli · 1 year ago
    So the next mother who finds her teenage son hung in a garage because he couldn't take the teasing anymore, shouldn't cry because her son didn't suffer like blacks did 150 years ago. You go do that. .
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    The mother should cry.
  • Milli · 1 year ago
    And after she's done crying can she go around to schools talking about what her son experienced because he was gay, or should she not bother because slavery was worse?
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    She can do whatever she wants.
  • Milli · 1 year ago
    Merry Christmas and God Bless.
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    I second that.
  • Ohio_Dem · 1 year ago
    Reminds me of Robbie Kirkland. He was 13 years old. when he took a gun and killed himself. His mother speaks to Catholic High Schools urging tolerance for gay kids. We all see how tolerant the Pope is. What's another dead gay kid to him?

    When religious leaders speak out and condemn gays as evil sinners who are going to hell...children are listening. Gay kids get scared to death and straight kids are taught to hate and sometimes they act on that hatred with violence.
  • Professor_Farnsworth · 1 year ago
    Gays are free "for the most part". Lets see, you can be thrown out of your family, beaten and left to die or thrown in a river by people who believe the same things you are espousing here, harassed enough as a teenager to hang yourself, lose a job, have your children taken from you, and be called whores, fags, fairies, lezbos, etc for something as simple as holding your partners hand in public.
    ----------------------------------------------------

    how about being beaten and molested and raped simply because you spoke your native language? how about being beaten, molested and raped for having your own beliefs? how about being put in boarding schools because you were native? My grandmother and grandfather and My FATHER lived through that. Boarding schools. I've experienced racism on a frequent basis. I was abused my in high school because I was not white.

    save me your histrionics, you are not the only group to suffer.

    I feel for the gay community, I do. I've been living discrimination and racism my entire life as well. Not because I'm gay, but because I'm not white. at least gay people can just omit saying so. but i really can't hide my skin color, can i?
  • Ohio_Dem · 1 year ago
    No one ever had to tell their parents "mom...dad.. I hope you will still love me after I tell you this....but....I'm black."

    LGBT kids are the only minority that face the very real fear that their parents will not love them any more. They are the only minority that get thrown out of the churches where they were baptised as infants. They are the only minority that is denied basic civil rights that I take for granted. They are the only minority that it is still perfectly acceptable for the President of the United States to bash in his State of the Union Address and for our President Elect to insult by legitimizing and promoting a professional homophobe to speak at the very inauguration that was supposed to be a celebration for change. Where's the change for the LGBT community on this historic day?
  • Professor_Farnsworth · 1 year ago
    "mom...dad.. I hope you will still love me after I tell you this....but....I'm black."
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    did you proofread this before hitting post? cuz this sounds ridiculous...and not in a point making sort of way....just in a false comparison sort of way.

    again, at least you can hide your orientation....can you hide your skin color?

    and anyway...how exactly can you tell your blacks parents to hate you when you are black? hmm? so many things wrong with your comparison....it's laughable.
  • Butch1 · 1 year ago
    Not any gays could live free from death in Iraq, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. There are more of them. Please name some countries that kill blacks for being black.
  • Professor_Farnsworth · 1 year ago
    Please name some countries that kill blacks for being black.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    United States.

    Remember before the civil rights era and even today....cuz it's still happening.
  • Butch1 · 1 year ago
    Yes, but at least it is against the law in the United States and is considered an Hate Crime as well, to do so. Although, it is illegal to kill a person in the states it is not Federally considered an Hate Crime to do so regarding gays. We haven't earned that status and obviously must be considered on a lower level not requiring protection as a minority, even though we are. What hate crime protections we have are only in certain states. The punishment for killing a gay person is usually less if the defendant can use the silly defense that the gay person came on to them and they were only defending themselves. Fortunately, the law is starting to wake up to this farce as in the case of Matthew Shepard.

    It is not against the law, but IS the law in Iran and Iraq that it is okay to kill gays because of whom they are because their religious leaders read the Quran literally and follow it to a "T". I do not know of any country where the law is written and followed by the people to given them permission to kill blacks with impunity. Although, our own country is not very far out of the woods on this issue.
    Yes, it is the law in those countries to kill gays and that is happening today.
  • Milli · 1 year ago
    You are an idiot.
  • timncguy · 1 year ago
    please tell me how many blacks that were alive in the 60's fighting for civil rights were ever slaves? Their ancestors were slaves. They themselves experienced bigotry and racism. So have gays. gays have been beaten to death for no other reason than for being gay. Gays get fired from their jobs for no other reason than for being gay. Gays are denied housing for no other reason than for being gay.

    Yes, some gays can hide their sexuality and pas for straight. But, then again, there were some light skinned black who were able to pass for white as well.

    Bigotry is bigotry no matter what. There doesn't need to be a contest to see who has suffered more in order to decide if gays have suffered enough yet to be able to be granted their civil rights.
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    The reference to house faggots resembles house slaves. The comparison is a joke.
  • bbock · 1 year ago
    The joke is funny because it does resemble a truth. Lots of people love their gay hair dresser, their gay coworker, and those funny faggots on the teevee. But they don't want them in their family and they certainly don't want them to be seen as full people. How else can we explain that they actively seek to write into the Constitution of California (and the US if they have their way) measures that take our rights away based on us being gay.
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    Gays are free to be a lawyer, attorney, Congressman if they win an election, Governeor, Mayor, CEO, hairdresser or whatever. Gays are not owned as chattel and forced to undertake physical labor. Gays can vote, protest eat at the finest restaurants, eat at the most average of restaurants, purchase the finest clothes, own property, use any public restroom they please, live in the finest neighborhoods, live in any neighborhood, travel freely, attend any church they desire, etc.

    Marriage is a glaring rights deprivation today. However, this does not make the comparison between the comparing the plight of gays tothe historical plight of the American slave sound.The comparison between the Amercan gay experience and the American slave experience is absurd and seriously promoting such a comparison demonstrates an irrational hysteria that is by no means persuasive.
  • Professor_Farnsworth · 1 year ago
    OMG, THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING SENSE!
  • An_American_Karol · 1 year ago
    I would never denigrate the Civil Rights struggle for Black America, but look deep into yourself and ask if riding at the back of the bus is worse then not being able to live your life with the person you love? Christian society wants it both ways - gays can't marry and living together without marriage is a sin. See the problem?
    Either way, Gays are less then second class citizens in this country.
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    I am looking deep into myself and I am confident and comfortable knowing the American gay experience should not and cannot be compared to the plight of the American black slave.
  • An_American_Karol · 1 year ago
    Funny, as a Native American woman, I don't see how Black America can compare with the blight of my people, but yet, I am comparing the blight of the gays. Go figure.
    White history has not been good to any minority.
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    I enjoy American Indian heritage as well. Whites are not nice historically speaking. Some would say it is survival of the fittest.
  • An_American_Karol · 1 year ago
    Then don't tell me you "enjoy" your Native blood.
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    I do enjoy my heritage and the blood that flows through my veins.
  • Steve_in_CNJ · 1 year ago
    there aren't any more slaves. this is a red herring. but why are we awarding suffer points to vicitims of discrimination in the first place? does rodney king get more points than matthew shepard? what is the point of this discussion? why not respond to the substance of the original comment?
  • dula · 1 year ago
    Blacks were hung from trees, Gays are tied to fences and beaten to death. Gee, I guess that really is different.
  • coolcatdaddy · 1 year ago
    The Lesbian and Gay experience is unique from the slave experience, but we have, as a minority, had our own problems.

    Did you know that in the early 1960s, a man from North Carolina was arrested under our old soldomy law and sentenced to something like 90 years in prison? His lawyer thought that was inhumane and the courts agreed. As a result, NC's sodomy law was changed so that the sentence max was something like five or ten years. Just a few years later, in Winston-Salem, a party attended by Gay men was raided by police and their careers and lives ruined.

    How many out teachers do you know, especially in rural areas? When's the last time you saw a scripted network tv show that didn't portray gays as a stereotype? How many times are books challenged each year in public libraries because of apparent gay or sexual content?

    The gay experience isn't quite like the slave experience, but it's not dissimilar to the experience of African-Americans after slavery ended or to experiences of other people of color in the twentieth century - subject to violence, employment discrimination, censorship, legal problems, and stereotyped in the media.
  • tbhull · 1 year ago
    I agree. Well said.
  • ChrisSF · 1 year ago
    I dunno, being beaten to death and tied to fence posts, fired from your job, losing your family, committing suicide at a rate four times the national average, all for being exposed as gay, all sounds pretty similar. Look, they are very different but also very much the same. Let's try to understand that slavery and recent history's treatment of gays are wrong for very similar reasons.
  • Professor_Farnsworth · 1 year ago
    I dunno, being beaten to death and tied to fence posts, fired from your job, losing your family, committing suicide at a rate four times the national average, all for being exposed as gay
    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    have you looked at statistics for Native Americans and suicide? You'll find it is at about the same and maybe worse. trust me, you aren't the only group that suffers for being something.

    wrong yes, and I am totally for gay marriage and giving them their rights.

    ...But please, your plight is no where near my people's.
  • shell · 1 year ago
    Bottom Line: Rick Warren and the evangelicals got what they wanted because they were LOUD. They whined, screamed, and acted like idiots. And when the gays just stand up for their rights, they get the shaft.

    Put this in perspective:

    To be like the evangelicals, gays must DEMAND that straights engage in gay sex. (Or, at best, just don't have sex for the rest of your life.) Sound stupid? Sure. But that is what they are doing. And for Obama to go along with this is really REALLY dumb.

    "Coming together" with the likes of Rick Warren is no different than coming together with any other racist/bigot.

    The sooner this country (and Obama) realizes this, the quicker this country can get out of this INSANE religious cult it is in. At first, I thought Obama was just rather naive. But now I am beginning to think he really IS a homophobe.

    How insane is this: To get the Middle East WITH us, to get the American snake-handlers WITH us, we must go backwards in time. Damn! Oh yeah -- I forgot -- that's how blacks got the right to vote! That's how WOMEN got the right to vote! How insulting to all the blacks and women who died to get the vote. Somehow, Obama (and some gays) don't see the comparison. Nothing valuable was ever gained by singing kumbaya and making nice. As I have said before, gay rights were better in 19 fucking 70 than they are now. Gay rights seem to have gone backwards.
  • will este · 1 year ago
    Of course your statement is not true... there are many other people who are not in the obama circle as well... you dont hear us complaining or whining or bitching about it.....
  • An_American_Karol · 1 year ago
    And just who is your circle? Just asking.
  • Moderation · 1 year ago
    Are there any open atheists or agnostics ANYWHERE NEAR a single high-level position in the administration? Even in the running? Since "openly" appears to now be a necessary part of the criteria, and there are non-open but known LGBT members appointed to the administration.

    That's MY circle, and it is woefully underrepresented throughout our government. To a pathetic degree. Literally ANYONE from ANY other group, be it based on sex, race, religion, or whatnot, is more statistically far more likely to be elected or appointed to any position of power than a non-believer.
  • An_American_Karol · 1 year ago
    The thing with those of us who are non theists is we don't go around forcing our beliefs on others. What does openly atheist mean to you?
  • Moderation · 1 year ago
    What I am saying is, suddenly, the metric is that it now has to be an OPENLY gay individual for them to count, when private, yet gay individuals HAVE been appointed? That is moving the goal posts. There ARE gay appointees. Why don't we tally up ALL of the appointees, see how many are gay, straight, white, black, Asian, Hispanic, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, atheist, Buddhist, Hindu, etc, etc, etc and see what the precise level of inclusiveness is?

    Gays don't go around forcing their beliefs on others, either. :o They simply want equality. Wishing to publicly display your affection for your lover, your life partner, your spouse, the ability to actually HAVE the latter, and have the state acknowledge that contract, and ALLOW a church that so wishes to likewise acknowledge that union before their God, is certainly not forcing their beliefs on others. It is a civil right that EVERYBODY deserves. Period. No separate but equal ANYTHING. Period.

    Being "openly atheist" means one is able to talk publicly about their beliefs (or lack thereof) without fear of backlash. Currently, non-believers appear to be the literal bottom rung of individuals likely to get elected to any position if they publicly state their theological stance. Being here in the Bible Belt, where I live, DOES mean it can be downright dangerous in some areas to openly discuss such a stance. Deadly serious.

    If your argument is that Rick Warren and his pathetic ilk are trying to force their beliefs on gays, to deny them rights...umm, hate to break it to you, but that crowd is very likely in my experience to likewise wish to abolish any non-believers, attempt to convert them (i.e. "cure" their "deviant" behavior), in much the same manner that they wish to force their beliefs on gays. The very group that Rick Warren represents simultaneously slaps gays, Jews, atheists, Muslims, and many more in the face, not merely the former group.

    If you would like to send a message, I'd say join the Facebook group "Turn Your Back on Rick" (http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=logo#/...). If you are going to the inauguration, actually turn your back on the man throughout his invocation. It is a non-violent, very dramatic and crystal clear message to Rick Warren and to this administration at the same time. If I were going, that is precisely what I would be doing. Instead, I will spread the message to do just that where I can.
  • An_American_Karol · 1 year ago
    I love the idea. I can't think of a better way to show contempt.
    I am not going to the inauguration, but would suggest as many supporters as possible get there early for front row back turning. It might cause a "wave" affect.
  • timncguy · 1 year ago
    excuse me, but if the person isn't openly gay, how do you know they are gay? Are you just guessing? Are you just guessing based on some outward appearance? Or the fact that someone isn't married? Do you have "inside" information?

    Post after post here makes the claim that gays don't have the same struggle as blacks because gays can hide their sexuality. NOw you seem to be claiming that they can't . Or, can't hide it from YOU anyway. Because apparently you are able to discern a person'r sexual preference without them having acknowledged it.
  • Moderation · 1 year ago
    No, you are right, there is no proof or evidence outside of circumstantial. Doesn't matter, and quite bluntly it isn't even the point, at all. To expect a LGBT to be automatically appointed to the cabinet in the name of inclusiveness, when Obama IS IN FACT appointing out LGBT individuals to prominent positions in his administration, is unrealistic and nothing to get upset about.

    The hyperbole in the header of this blog entry, "ONLY major minority not welcome" is just plain wrong, and is my major problem with this entry. People who consider themselves to be non-religious AND non-spiritual make up ~10% of this country. "Out" atheists and agnostics make up ~3% on top of that (for a total of ~13%, and growing rather quickly at that). LGBT's make up ~10% of the populace, half of them (about 5%) being "out" about it.. By comparison to LGBT, the former group is a wholly unrepresented major minority in government. Especially when going by the metric of being out about it as a prerequisite for it to count.

    That's before even taking into account how many Muslims, Buddhists, or whatever other minority groupings one wishes to identify as, are in the cabinet? Many diverse groupings are currently unrepresented at the cabinet-level, and at least one, a grouping I identify with strongly (non-believers, be they atheist, agnostic, or uncaring about any deity one way or the other), is approximately the same % as the LGBT community, yet woefully, drastically less represented at all levels of government, and far less likely if out about said non-belief to be elected to public office.

    As for the bullshit about the struggle of the LGBT community? Where have _I_ said that? I completely agree that LGBT folks have been ostracized in this country, struggled greatly, been beaten, murdered, lynched, banished for their natural tendencies, forced to hide.. You know, what with my own bisexual proclivities. I identify more as a non-theist, however, than I do as a bisexual, as I am now very happily in a loving relationship with kids (not married...a specific form of protest of my many LGBT friends who CANNOT get married). But thanks for assuming. :/ Incidentally, I find people much less understanding and tolerant of non-theism where I happen to live than they are of homosexuality or bisexuality, but not as frowned upon as transexuality or intersexuality.
  • Moderation · 1 year ago
    Oh, and Nancy Sutley IS OPENLY GAY, and appointed to lead the White House Council on Environmental Quality (I knew I forgot to add something). That is a LGBT appointment of an openly lesbian woman. That it isn't a cabinet-level position is irrelevant. By that metric, almost every minority has no representation. The Secretary of the Navy is looking very likely to be a prominent, openly gay man, as well. That's two so far, one appointed, one the top runner. That's two more than non-believers, who are a larger segment of the populace, yet have essentially zero representation throughout all of government, especially at the federal level.

    A DEMOCRAT had to DEFEND HERSELF from attacks of being ACCUSED of being an atheist, as though it were an evil, horrible, vile insult to be called such, and there was little to no, "Why would it matter if I was an atheist? Replace atheist with <insert minority here, especially theist minority>, and try to accuse me like that again!", as was done when Muslim was being thrown around as an insult.
  • ChrisSF · 1 year ago
    Did you vote for him and give many thousands of dollars to his campaign?
  • met00 · 1 year ago
    and the band played on
  • IAmATVJunkie · 1 year ago
    Yep, once again brought in to entertain (and no doubt decorate and dress the women) but not to sit at the adult table.

    I'm starting to get bitter, where's my gun and my religion?
  • starwind · 1 year ago
    "I'm starting to get bitter, where's my gun and my religion?"
    Hilarious!
    Seriously though, why should it matter if there is no gay person in the cabinet. I mean if there was a "Secretary of Gay Affairs" (and you know what I mean) then it would be important, but I would prefer the top candidate, as possible, be appointed to a position rather than some token appointment. This is faux outrage and really, we're hardly the only minority not appointed as pointed out by several people above.
  • Phalamir · 1 year ago
    The pro-Prop H8 movement now has a face: Barack Hussein Obama
  • JayR · 1 year ago
    If that leads to effective organizing I bet he'd take it.
  • buddhistMonkey · 1 year ago
    "Hussein?" Way to sell your argument.

    Perhaps you'd be more at home over at NoQuarterUSA.net.
  • Phalamir · 1 year ago
    It isn't his name? I gave his full name. Considering his stance on gays and full citizenship, should I just go ahead and replace it with "Adolph"? Since that's where you and him,and your anti-American bigot supporters are going. Heaven forfend a country born under "all men are created equal" should try and live up to it. MLK would spit on BHO, since the former was a big supporter of gays and the latter is a big supporter of the KKK. If the hood fits, wear it
  • mamazboy · 1 year ago
    Oh please, Phalamir - there are much more sensible ways to attack this question than the juvenile use of Obama's middle name. Oh but wait - I didn't realize - you must be a wingnut.
  • timncguy · 1 year ago
    could we please STOP this crap about Obma's middle name. He plans to take the oath of office using his full name including his middle name the same way most previous presidents have done. Besides, acting all upset when people use his middle name implies there is something wrong with his name and there isn't. It also implies there is something wrong with being a Muslim or middle eastern and their isn't. You be in BIG trouble if Obama's first name was Hussein, wouldn't you? What would you insist we call him then? Frank?
  • buddhistMonkey · 1 year ago
    You're on the side of the angels, it seems. Ann Coulter made the same argument last week:

    http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/ann-cou...
  • bbock · 1 year ago
    If that dude Ann Coulter says it, it must be true.
  • buddhistMonkey · 1 year ago
    Yes, you should indeed start calling Obama "Adolph."

    Then, all I'd have to say is "Godwin's Law," and your argument would disappear in a puff of illogic. Like it just did.
  • PeteWa · 1 year ago
    LOL

    We are the entertainment.
    Dance, gays, dance!
    Play music for us!
    Sing, gay, sing!
    Make a joke, gay, make us laugh!

    And when you're done, please go somewhere you can be forgotten.

    You know, use the back door (please pardon the pun, as that is not my meaning here).
    Leave by the servant's quarters if you will...
    And don't start asking why you can't sit at the grown up table...
    If you do, we'll call you uppity.
  • JaxomS · 1 year ago
    Oh how true is this.
  • mamazboy · 1 year ago
    You said it, Pete. I'd only add:

    Do my hair, gay!
    Decorate my house!
    Then leave!
  • bbock · 1 year ago
    Gay is the new black?
  • Bob reader · 1 year ago
    I would absolutely love to see a cabinet pick who happens to be LGBT. But if you have a group representative quota, that may be at odds for the notion of picking the most qualified people.

    cf. George H.W. Bush saying with a straight face that Clarence Thomas was 'the most qualified candidate" for the Supreme Court (filling a seat vacated by Thurgood Marshall). Utter and total bullsh*t.

    I think Obama's picks are not possibly going to represent all groups out there. For example, has he picked a disabled person? Has he picked an elderly person? Has he picked a Native American? (If not, that's arguably a significant insult: They were here first, and non-Natives screwed Natives over, big time.)

    I mean, let's choose our battles. In my view, the Rick Warren matter is much more of an outrage , and worth protesting, fiercely.
  • timncguy · 1 year ago
    are you suggesting with a straight face that the republican he picked for Transportation was the most qualified for that position? Or, more likely the best republican for that position. Likely tThe best place he could find for a republican that wouldn't do too much damage?
  • LeftCoastOracle · 1 year ago
    I agree with you. And I think Nancy Sutley got quite a nice White House Staff Post: Head of White House Council on Environmental Quality.
  • JaxomS · 1 year ago
    We simply are too small of a community, to minority of a minority if you will, for any politician to genuinely care about our fates. It doesn't matter that we voted for him in force. There aren't enough of us to make any real impact. Thus we will always be tapped for our many talents, or be used as political pawns when handy, but in the end be brushed aside or ridiculed when we ask for their aid in return.
  • PissedSissy · 1 year ago
    The moment we, as a community, truly realize this statement as FACT and TRUTH will be the first moment of real hope we have had in some time. We MUST realize that we are in a CODEPENDENT relationship with the "progressives" - and this relationship is NOT healthy for us. We CANNOT change them - they will continue to claim to care while simply using and abusing us.

    Our best protest at this point is to send a mass mailing of our voter registration cards to the Democratic party with the words REJECTED written on them - along with a letter stating that we're codependent no more. We may only be 10% - but these bastards will not hold power long without us. We MUST stand together and state clearly that either they revoke Don't Ask Don't Tell, pass EDNA overwhelmingly, and launch a MASSIVE campaign to revoke all state constitutional amendments against us during these next two years, or we will STAY HOME in 2010.
  • buddhistMonkey · 1 year ago
    There are no accurate polls for the percentage of gay Americans, but the best guess is somewhere between 5% and 10%. Of those, it's more than likely that half are closeted, so the number of openly gay Americans is somewhere downwards of 1-in-20. In a cabinet with less than 20 members, exactly what percentage should be openly gay?

    For the record, Obama has nominated Nancy Sutley to be chairwoman of the Council on Environmental Quality, and there's also a good chance that he'll also nominate Bill White to become the Secretary of the Navy. Those are both high-profile positions in his administration, though not cabinet seats.
  • timncguy · 1 year ago
    he also has no openly gay member in a high level white house staff position either.
  • buddhistMonkey · 1 year ago
    Seven members of Obama's transition team are openly gay:

    http://www.washingtonblade.com/thelatest/thelat...
  • LeftCoastOracle · 1 year ago
    Nancy Sutley is a lesbian and she will head the White House Council on Environmental Quality. It's a White House Staff Post.
  • JUNE · 1 year ago
    Reality depends on your perspective, and there is always evidence to back up whatever reality you create. Suddenly Obama is an anti-gay bigot maybe the reason you trivialize the parade, its a first for any presidential inauguration, of course completely ignore the presence of pro-gay Rev Lowrey , and dont mention this to feed your narrative -

    "President-elect Obama plans to name Los Angeles Deputy Mayor Nancy Sutley, as chairwoman of his White House Council on Environmental Quality, a transition official said".
    Lets see how far these tactics get us...
  • fEBRUARY · 1 year ago
    How many native Americans are in the cabinet yet?
  • An_American_Karol · 1 year ago
    First Americans do have an ax to grind, what with all those broken treaties and land deals, but last I took notice, we can marry.
  • An_American_Karol · 1 year ago
    "Hey, they gave us a band."

    I'm sorry, but that comment made me spit wine on my keyboard. It was a great snark.
  • BlueNTexas · 1 year ago
    Yeah. We are always good for entertainment
  • bbock · 1 year ago
    And we know how to throw a great party.
  • erick28 · 1 year ago
    well, it is obvious that we are not part of the so called "change we can believe in". I am loosing my hopes and trust to this guy. This is the time that i really wanted to be corrected.
  • LeftCoastOracle · 1 year ago
    Look, Nancy Sutley is a lesbian and she will lead the White House Council on Environmental Quality. It's a White House Staff post.

    I'm pissed about Warren too but let's at least give him credit when he does appoint one of us.
  • dula · 1 year ago
    I hear that position has no teeth is outside the realm of White House influence.
  • sherifffruitfly · 1 year ago
    Gays to native Americans: you're not worth talking about.

    What? Over-the-top hyperbole is the order of the day I thought.
  • An_American_Karol · 1 year ago
    Please don't speak for me.
  • Professor_Farnsworth · 1 year ago
    He can speak for me!

    It's truth!
  • afafkd · 1 year ago
    at least some can say i didn't give $
  • not completely useless · 1 year ago
    Only? Puh-leeze!
    Atheists: zero.
  • tsbio · 1 year ago
    Hilary who was bashed by this blog during the primary would have been much more supportive of Gays and Lesbians. I still content Hilary would have made the better president.
  • An_American_Karol · 1 year ago
    I still think Obama was the right vote; however, I think it's important to remind him who his supporters are.
  • hal · 1 year ago
    "Content" all you want. She lost. Get over it.

    Hillary and Bill gave us DADT, and Bill signed DOMA into law. Why would she be better? I swear, some people and their love affair with Hillary. She made a specific move to the center when she became Senator, and no one balked. She said she would only repeal PART of DOMA and no one balked. But, she would be more gay friendly? Again, Obama isn't President yet. Let him actually take office and have a chance to do something.
  • dula · 1 year ago
    I supported Obama over Hillary but now that Obama is Hillary I dare say I should of just voted for the original...and yes, I agree that at least Hillary wouldn't have embraced an extremist preacher to lead her Inaugeration.
  • James McConnell · 1 year ago
    You know, I don't mind so much that we don't get a cabinet position, although Obama is stupid to deprive himself of our creativity and our support. Probably that slimy rat bastard Clinton retread and conservative Jewish bigot Rahm Emmanuell, anyway. I hoped for better. Don't even mind so much that he passed on supporting gay marriage. Lot of politicians who know better and feel otherwise doing that for expediency anyway. These are passive offenses, failure to act.

    I'll tell you what I do mind. That is the egregious kick in the teethe that is Reverend Tubby and his over the top insults. This is just totally unnecessary, totally unjustified, more insults coming against Obama's base even after he received his inaugural invitiation. Absolutely unprecedented behavior for any inaugural participant. It so pisses me off, the gratuitously insulting nature of it, that it makes me realize that Obama or anyone else could do this unless they were completely devoid of any core sensitivity about gay rights at all, completely lacking in any kind of any basic compassion for gay people. What kind of monster have we elected here? I don't even think John McCain would create this kind of perverse spectacle at his inauguration. It makes me wonder if the social contract is still binding, you know, the social contract that says that if you don't insult me, I won't insult you. Long ago we all gave up the use of the N* word and other disrespectful terms of address. Now I wonder whether that is still binding when blacks take away our right to marry in California and a black president elect chooses to insult us through his white trash surrogate, as pedophiles and accuses us of beastiality. Where does this go exactly Do we, in time return to former usages? Equal treatment being all the rage, are we now invited to begin referring to Obama as, "that N* President." I hope not; that would be a terrible thing. But Obama's buddies Rahm and Ricky need to pull it in a notch. A big notch.

    The time will come when Obama will again need our support and our votes, which he received in this 52-48 election. That means he'd have lost the general if only 2% had voted the other way. That is about half of the gay vote. It is not unrealistic to say that we put him over the top. Bubba did the same thing. Thought he'd never need us again. Did as he pleased. He and Hillary found out that in close elections, they did need us again and we weren't there, in the caucuses. It'd be just an opinion, but I think DOMA and Don't ask, Don't Tell cost Hillary the election. Obama would do well to keep it in mind.

    Obama needs to get out more. because what you are seeing is a Rahm E insularity taking hold, the walls going up. Judging from his lame response, it seems unlikely that Obama has any idea of the extent of the uproar going on around this, the first real blunder of the Obama administration.
  • lodestar · 1 year ago
    I think you are grossly overstating the weight of the gay vote. Incidentally, exit polls show that John McCain received a relatively large share of the gay vote; close to 30%. Obama can win without the gay vote; not so much say, the Hispanic vote, or the working-class white vote, or other more influential vote banks.

    It's also unfortunate passage of Prop 8 has seemed to allow racism within the gay community, which is prevalent, to come to the fore. It was latent before, thinly veiled now. Fantisizing about calling Obama the N-word? Yeah, I'm sure you really think that would be horrible.
  • starwind · 1 year ago
    Geesh, racist much? The color of the president elect's skin has nothing to do with his political machinations vis a vis gay people. Let's cut the kid some slack, people. While this is an apparent slap in the face, there is absolutely no need to start name calling and reverting to our lesser selves. People can learn from their mistakes, I believe that Mr. Obama is one of them. Let's wait until he's actually president before we start dumping on him shall we? He's already mentioned the word "Gay" more than the last 4 presidents combined. Let's not blame the defeat of Prop 8 on him too.
  • James McConnell · 1 year ago
    One of the points of my post is that Obama should avoid insults (WARREN) and name calling (THROUGH WARREN), likewise pro 8 blacks because there is going to be an inevitable blowback from that. What they put out there will come back to them multiplied.

    And, no, we don't need to wait til we're dead to fight back. Been there, done that, with reagan, Bush and Clinton. We cut the Clintons some slack when they betrayed us and they just kept on doing it.
  • never drank the kool-aid · 1 year ago
    Maybe one of us will get to do Michelle's hair!
  • bbock · 1 year ago
    I'm sure we'll be catering and decorating the parties. And probably making her dress.
  • percol8r · 1 year ago
    The band should say FUCK YOU and decline the invitation to perform.

    Speaking as a gay man, I'm tired of hearing gay people aren't good enough for real inclusion -- but we sure are the best for entertainin'.

    And we thought minstrel shows were a relic of history. Not at all. Now that a black man is president, he has just replaced blackface with homos playing band instruments.

    Screw that. If Obama doesn't have a real place at the table for gay people, let him find someone else to play the dinner music.
  • NGLTF · 1 year ago
    I guess as gays, we are considered good enough to be minstrels of entertainment, but not worthy of true respect. People like Obama and Rick Warren don't mind if you trim their wives hair or do a little soft shoe dance for laughs, but stay the hell away from their children (because they consider us to be evil predators).
  • offspring · 1 year ago
    we need to get over ourselves. we dont matter period in the greater scene, we are not big enough nor are we strong enough, and not to mention we cant even get ourselves together on any damn situation without petty crap, but we will not matter and never will period it is the truth
  • bbock · 1 year ago
    Yeah we should just shut up, huh? No.
  • NGLTF · 1 year ago
    The bottom line is that comparing gays to pedophiles and child rapists, Rick Warren has directly assaulted those gay and lesbian veterans who made the ultimate sacrifice for his freedoms. The outrageous nature of his insult even surpasses the rhetoric of Fred Phelps. How can Obama say he "respects and honors" Rick Warren when he's viciously slandered our combat veterans?
  • elRey · 1 year ago
    Its the feeling of anger and helpless frustration I had in my gut for the last 8 years when I watched the Bush administration rob and pillaged the nation, torture, kill innocent Iraqis, spy on US citizens and shred the constitution as the Democrats sat by wringing their hands and signed off on everything Bush did, you know, THAT feeling... Well, for a week or two I felt like it was gone and I really was so happy that Obama prevailed and I felt hope.

    But now its back. This is truly a slap in the face to all who care about equal rights. I know I'll get over it and I do still hold out hope for this administration, but clearly, there are less controversial choices for the inauguration, and I WILL NOT BE SILENT!! NO NOS QUEDAREMOS CALLADOS!
  • Just asking · 1 year ago
    Janet Napoltiano?
  • devlzadvocate · 1 year ago
    I'll play in the band, but I get to bring the flute of my choice.

    And the tune the band should play on Inauguration Day is "Belgian Waffles" by Karen Finley.
  • willnyc · 1 year ago
    My 80-something year old mom just sent me an Xmas card which contained a (rather large) check with this written in the memo line:
    "A Contribution to Marriage Equality"

    She's letting her gay son decide where to send the money. Any suggestions? And yes, she's a pistol.
  • devlzadvocate · 1 year ago
    Sage?
  • dula · 1 year ago
    Buy yourself a husband...then fly to a more civilized country and marry him.
  • paulbe · 1 year ago
    I guess he now has what they wanted him to have. I'm sure he's thankful for the money, and the landslide ensured that vote fraud would be buried as an issue. Change so believable you can barely see it.
  • El Rojo · 1 year ago
    One characteristic that Obama sadly shares with his predecessor is an inability to admit when he has made a mistake. He didn't dissociate himself from the last bigot and he's not going to dissociate himself from this one. So it's up to us. A wonderful suggestion made in one of these comments, that all those attending the inauguration and opposed to Rick Warren's giving the invocation stand and turn their backs when he begins, has been virtually ignored. I think this could be a real attention-getter, certainly much more than outside protests, which would be easy enough to ignore, and also more than the shoe-raising thing, which could be viewed as an assault, and more than wry comments about Warren's weight. Now is the time to get this going rather than waiting until two days before.
  • willnyc · 1 year ago
    el R,
    I said this before: I think a couple dozen people turning their backs on Warren wouldn't be all that effective, b/c let's face it, in that sea of O supporters, there wouldn't be that many people turning their backs.
    I do have an interesting idea though. Lots of people are complaining about gays going after Obama on this one. You know what? I think it's great. We are CALLING HIM OUT. And we must continue to do so. Every time he offers a slap in the face, we will write blogs, write newspapers, write emails to his office. Every time he fails our expectations, doesn't live up to the miles we canvassed to get him elected, we MUST LET HIM KNOW. And we will. We aren't shutting up this time.
    This is a sign of maturity of the movement, that Solomnese's letter was published in the Washington Post.
  • El Rojo · 1 year ago
    Anyone else notice that the other side on some level realizes how reactionary and ridiculous they are starting to look?

    The last news post on protectmarriage.com, dated 12/2 and called "An ugly attack on Mormons," has this statement near its end: "My own view is that gay marriage is likely inevitable, and won't be nearly the disaster many of my fellow conservatives fear it will be."

    And included in the H8 folks' court papers asking the Supreme Court to nullify the 18,000 same-sex marriages--a move that is nothing but vindictive--is the statement, "That body of decisional law [jurisprudence] commands judges--as servants of the people--to bow to the will of those whom they serve--even if the substantive result of what people have wrought in constitution-making is deemed unenlightened."

    Despite the latest revelation that Obama is turning out to be a major disappointment with regard to our rights, the tide is turning our way, and even our enemies are starting to recognize and even acknowledge this. It's easy in this day and age of instant everything to get discouraged that things aren't moving more swiftly. Our time is coming. It's essentially unstoppable at this point.
  • willnyc · 1 year ago
    Great stuff el R. Are they (gasp) preparing to surrender? Or are they up to some new plan of attack? Wow - this really is exhausting!
  • El Rojo · 11 months ago
    Hi willnyc--

    I haven't checked this e-mail in a while. Well, of course some new plans of attack have come to light, including yesterday's hypocritical lawsuit asking that names of donors be kept anonymous.

    Mike > Subject: [americablog] Re: Gays only major minority not welcome in Obama's cabinet> From: > To: lionman599@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 06:59:04 +0000> > willnyc wrote, in response to El Rojo:> > Great stuff el R. Are they (gasp) preparing to surrender? Or are they up to some new plan of attack? Wow - this really is exhausting!> > Link: http://www.americablog.com/2008/12/gays-only-ma...> > --> You may reply to this email to post your response. To turn off notifications, go to your Disqus settings at: http://disqus.com/settings/notifications/
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  • Demo_Dave · 1 year ago
    Wow were in the parade right in front the bus that runs over us.
  • gary · 1 year ago
    Perhaps the band should show up in minstrel drag
  • JohnInTexas · 1 year ago
    Are they instructing the gay band on exactly what they are allowed to play and wear? I still say black leather chaps, bare butt, and playing I will Survive on Kazoos. :)
  • LeftCoastOracle · 1 year ago
    I've been told that Nancy Sutley is a lesbian. If that is not accurate perhaps someone will "set us straight." She has been appointed to lead Obama's White House Council on Environmental Quality. It's not a cabinet post but it is a pretty damn good post - on the White House Staff.
  • LAMatt · 1 year ago
    No, sorry. Chair of WH Council on Environmental Quality, Sutley's position, is NOT a Sr. White House Staff position. There are 22 Sr. WH Staff positions. All straight. Obama will be seeing no gay people on a daily basis in his administration.
  • LeftCoastOracle · 1 year ago
    Yes, I've just checked Wikipedia and it says, "Sutley is the first prominent gay person to earn a senior role in Obama's new administration."
  • Bart · 1 year ago
    Fact of the matter, by validating Warren and what he stands for, Obama is promoting anti-gay bashing and violence. I fully expect to see violence against gays increase as a result of this political assault on us.
  • Butch1 · 1 year ago
    Those bus tires across our backs are starting to smart. So all we're good for with this administration is the sole purpose of entertainment from a gay marching band?! I wonder if those bus tire tracks will leave marks this time around?!
  • TessaSummersbee · 1 year ago
    Women are over 50% of the population, and they are only represented in a token way in this administration. Three women? Please... Too bad about Obama not caring about the LGBT community. It was pretty obvious that Hillary Clinton was much more willing to help the community. I mean, Bill Clinton risked his presidency to at least give gays in the military some breathing room. Yeah, it wasn't that great of a policy, but Bill really stuck his neck out to get even that. He had the brass coming to the WH and basically threatening him over it. Obama will NEVER do anything that specifically helps the LGBT community because it wouldn't be politically astute. In a way, Bill Clinton was much more of an idealist than Obama. Obama is pragmatic and very shrewd. He will govern down the middle, and he will never take a risk for an ideal. Count on it.
  • imagenvideo · 1 year ago
    Romance in the white house of America

    http://tinyurl.com/Romance-in-the-White-House
  • Older_Wiser · 1 year ago
    Here's a lesbian who's very well qualified Obama bypassed for Labor Secretary:

    http://www.americanrightsatwork.org/mary-beth-m...

    A real grassroots worker, intelligent, capable, hardworking, but passed over.
  • Indigo · 1 year ago
    If Mr. Obama wants to restore segregation, we can do that. I doubt that he understands the implications but that's the failure that brands him as a one term lame duck. No future.
  • bbock · 1 year ago
    Oh, well, Obama says he's ever so supportive of equality for gays. Except when it comes to marriage of course. He's lying to us and used us.
  • bbock · 1 year ago
    We're only in the parade because it's January in DC and they know it will be too cold for us to dance naked on a float.
  • davidkc · 1 year ago
    It is becoming increasingly clear that Obama is going to do nothing more than pay lip service to GLBT Americans and GLBT rights. He's looking more and more like Bill Clinton every day.
  • Mike In Texas · 1 year ago
    What else should we expect? Gay groups made total asses of themselves fawning over Cinton the way they did. You dance with them that brung ya, as we say in Texas. Obama should not have invited Warren (good reach out to previously Republican groups, bad irritation to the Democratic base) but his Cabinet and White House staff picks have been spot on.
  • coinntreau · 1 year ago
    atheists had a sad little chuckle over the title of this post.
  • bootykahn · 1 year ago
    Ya' all think life is tough ? Slavery is alive and well!
    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?stor...
  • Doug · 1 year ago
    I want to trust Obama and his judgement and I still do, but this does feel like a kick in the gut! I'm tired of having to choose the lessor of two evils and I hope Obama doesn't become the lessor, I hope he rises above the evil. Obama will set the tone for the nation and if he lets the Christian right/WRONG dictate gays as sinful and evil and undeserving of equal rights than he does so at his own and the nations peril. And the band played on...
  • rblackula · 1 year ago
    One of the things I like is the use of Monty Python sketches to illustrate something.

    This post brings to mind the Life of Brian part of the Palestinian terrorists complaining and saying "What have the Romans done for us?" Then the other answers and says "The aqueducts?" Then it goes on "Other than the aqueducts, what have the Romans done for us?" A: "The roads?" Q "Other than the aqueducts and the roads, what have the Romans done for us?"...

    My point being my governor, Janet Napolitano, who I will be very sorry to lose to the Department of Homeland Security.
    She's not out of the closet, but it's pretty well acknowledged that she is gay. Is she like the aqueducts, and doesn't count?
  • Professor_Farnsworth · 1 year ago
    oh, white people.

    Now the discrimination matters cuz it's happening to a majority of you.
  • teammarty · 1 year ago
    Not true, you forgot the ATHEISTS, again.
  • EdNSted · 1 year ago
    Good point. While the non-religious make up 16% of the general population and followers of Judaism make up around 0.22% (1 fifth of 1%), who do you think will be better represented in the Obama administration? The non-religious are certainly a MAJOR minority. I'll be impressed when Richard Dawkins is invited to give the inagural invocation....
  • Coin treau · 1 year ago
    Down below there's some interesting hair-splitting. True, there are no OUT gays in Obama's INNER circle (the 22 or so closest staff) ...but there is at least one gay woman in the next level, and the possibly closeted Napoleatano (sp?) is on deck for a prominent role. That's apparently not good enough.

    This presumably means that being gay (and OUT) should warrant "affirmative action" to push aside someone presumably more qualified (at least in BHO's opinion). So are youasking for THAT kind of pandering? Isn't that the same cronyism and crass politicization we've bitched about for eight years?

    First the Warren tantrums, now this. Americablog posts these past few days have been a disappointing display of gay-centric narcissism. Is demanding special treatment in the name of equality likely to work? Is it what's best for true progress? When will the insightful and though-provoking posts from the gay perspective return, John?
  • Milli · 1 year ago
    Why are we even arguing over who is the most oppressed? This is utterly ridiculous. Gay rights are Native American rights are African American rights are women's rights, etc and etc. and etc. If those who can't "hide" their skin color are yearning to be less conspicuous like gays "supposedly" can be, then I feel sorry for you. I didn't know that our purpose in life was to hide ourselves just to make someone else more comfortable around us. No minority group should have to grovel to white, straight America for approval. I'm gay and I would damn well stand up for anyone who is the victim of injustice. Everyone's personal and cultural histories are equally worthy of recognition.
  • Emma · 1 year ago
    Yawn ... and ...

    WHINE!

    This blog has evolved into queen bitchfest!
  • Ohio_Dem · 1 year ago
    .
  • Carl · 12 months ago
    Update!! Gays are NOT a minority. Minority is an ethnic, racial classification, NOT a sexual preference! Let's stop the devisiveness!
  • whatever · 11 months ago
    gays may not be a Minority now but we keep saying it
    so i think in due time it will become real
    you can not change being gay and people who do change
    never really changed at all because the we're not gay to start with
    Minority is a label
    criples are Minorities
    large people are Minorities
    i dont realy care if you dont think its right
    but this (lable) Minority will in time lose it value as
    all of us will one day become a Minority

    peace and (F) off