What a mediocre speech. Clinton is passionless and cold. She cannot inspire. But then again no corpse can.
FunMe
· 1 year ago
funny! :-)
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 1 year ago
JOHN, YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE THE WHOLE THING IN TROLL CAPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WILL YOU STAY HOME IF SHE IS THE VP NOMINEE, JOHN?
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
LOL caps would have been funny :-) I will support Obama even his teams up with the devil. I just hope he has enough sense not to team up with the devil.
QueerTheorist
· 1 year ago
How can someone who purports to be an advocate for gay civil rights support a man who campaigns with Donnie McClurkin during a gay bashing tour in SC? How can someone who purports to support gay civil rights support a man who refused to have his photograph taken with Gavin Newsome, lest he become affiliated with gay marriage? How can someone who purports to support gay civil rights support a man who refuses to interview with any LGBT outlets?
John, you have sacrificed gay rights on the altar of a candidate who solicits the support of homophobic ministers. How you do this is good faith is beyond my comprehension. Perhaps all the advertisement revenue from certain Democratic organizations requires you to attack Hillary Clinton, the one candidate who does view LGBT rights and human rights. And too bad your advocacy for the candidate who could care less about gay rights has failed: the LGBT community supports Clinton over Obama 67-33.
Mindless party unity is not very becoming. And your misogyny renders you a brute. Thank you for selling out yourself and the movement to Barack Obama. You have just relegated yourself to the margins of irrelevancy.
How does it feel to support a candidate who coquets with homophobia for electoral gain? How does it feel to lack any true conviction? You are a joke.
Topher
· 1 year ago
I completely agree with your first two paragraphs. The problem is that JA and ABlog have happily wandered away from being champions of gay rights issues and moved on to praising Mr. Obama and trashing Mrs. Clinton. You must have missed the memo here that Mr. Obama is actually better on gay issues because he supports a full repeal of DOMA, and because Mrs. Clinton's surrpogate called someone a "pansy." Mr. Obama has been absolved of the McClurkin connection, no one has mentioned Gavin Newsome, and I do not believe there has been one story or post on the general topic of how the gay community views this primary. This is no longer a blog about gay rights issues, nor is it reflective, I suspect, of the thoughts of most gay people.
empireofno
· 1 year ago
completely agree with your post. it's amazing to see the few gay supporters that BHO has managed to scrape together and how utterly shameless they are about helping a man who actively tours with and solicits the votes of hateful homophobes. the opportunism of some of the pro-obama bloggers is just astounding.
but in the end it won't matter, because obama is yet another in a line of stevensonian democratic losers who have no ability to connect with voters (and no,undemocratic "caucuses" have nothing to do with the way general elections work).
all that these short-term opportunists are doing is limbaugh's dirty work for him by doing everything possible to assure mccain's victory in the fall instead clinton's, who's the only true supporter of the gay community running for the democratic nomination.
obama is a loser and that is why the republicans and neoconservatives were singing his praises until he became the "presumptive" nominee in the media echo chamber. it's really sad to see people who claim to support the gay community play into the hands of the gop by allowing themselves to be used as shills for obama.
Deadalus
· 1 year ago
Get over the McClurkin non-event. And the Gavin Newsome thing has been explained ad nauseum. Finally, he has interviewed with SEVERAL gay outlets, including Logo and the Advocate. Jesus Fucking Christ, what is wrong with you gay-diva-loving Hilltards?
All my homo friends are for Obama and don't want to be pandered to by a Clinton who'll jack us off under the table while signing our rights to marry away and then run again in 4 years proud of the discrimination to gin up votes in the south.
Barack mentions gay people ALL the time, btw, and that gets a lot of respect.....especially since Clinton hasn't uttered the word lesbian in like 20 years.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
I've written about Hillary's gay problem before. At least Obama isn't afraid to say the word gay. Hillary's staff yelled at us when we were going to ask her a gay question - yelled at us. You can't ask her a gay question! Have you told her the question in advance? Huh. Yeah, neither Hillary nor Obama are perfect, and they both have flaws, but in the end, they're both pretty good, so judging either by just the gay standard is kind of stupid. They're pretty much a wash.
truthseeker
· 1 year ago
As a gay person, I canNOT stand your utter stupidity. Remind me...who was it right there when her husband signed DOMA? DADT? Yes, I realize this was her husband and not her, but it is her "experience" as First Lady that she touts as actually substantive. Finally...as John points out, she does NOT want to fully repeal DOMA. She accepts the endorsement of Scaiffe, is all up on Fox New's dick and won't even mention the word "gay" in any other than a gay forum. Obama went to Ebeneezer Baptist Church on MLK's birthday and talked about the need to grow beyond the homophobia of many in the "black church" to the chagrin and boos of the people there. All Hillary and Bill do is FUCK us without a condom and never call the next day.
High Crimes & Misdemeanors
· 1 year ago
is that jockstrap picture for your profile...... ???
ummmmmm this is not a hoookup site fireblazes, just thought id let you know..... LOL
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 1 year ago
Actually it is art, but since you read more into it than there is I will change it for you. joe
Dave of the Jungle
· 1 year ago
Simply stated, there is no doubt that HILLARY IS SATAN.
barbio
· 1 year ago
I am a 53 year old professional woman who spent countless hours all throughout the late 90's defending both Clinton's from the unrelenting attacks by my co-workers. I even spent $500 to go to a fundraiser and meet her where I had my picture taken with her. This picture used to be in a place of honor in my office. Last month I removed it and it is all I can do not to throw darts. Please, please someone get her to stop!
blackwolf
· 1 year ago
Don't feel alone Barbio, a lot of us supported the Clintons through the hard times back in the day. The truth is that what we're seeing in the dynamic duo is what they've always been...devious!
blackwolf
· 1 year ago
Haha...John, you sound a bit pissed off at the Clintons. I turned the televsion set off! I can't watch this woman vomit on prime time. The interesting thing is that she actually believes she won. All of this almost makes me want to change my party affiliations....&&&$$! So, when is someone actually going to come out and say that Hillary is racially destructive to the DNC?
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 1 year ago
For the first time in 50 years we democrats have a real debate about who should be our candidate and all the newbies and amateur pundits cry and moan and bitch. Personally I hope all of you fair-weather democrats do stay home with all of the evangelical republicans. Maybe you could share a pity BBQ!
narciblog
· 1 year ago
I've been a *long* time Americablog reader, but the unrelenting Hillary-hate here is quickly driving me away. "Horrible human being" is what I would expect to read over at the conservative blogs or hear on Limbaugh's show (along with some gratuitous mention of Bill having sex with someone and that Chelsea is ugly).
John, whether you like it or not, Obama does not have a lock on the nomination. This is not tearing the Democratic party apart. If anything, what's tearing the party apart is hysterical overreactions like this post.
I can't help but think this situation is incredibly similar to Florida in 2004, when all the Republicans were saying Bush won and Gore should just drop out of the race.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
You're insane if you think Obama doesn't have a lock on the nomination. 2+2=4. It doesn't = 5 because a Clinton says it does. You people are freaking insane. She lost. She can't win. Tell us, right now, what her path to victory is. Seriously, tell us, state by state, the percentages she is going to win in order to be our nominee. It can't happen. The very fact that she has people like you fooled into believe it is just sad, and part of the problem. She's lying to you, and you're willing to believe it. Great. Great lady she is.
narciblog
· 1 year ago
I never said it wasn't a long shot. I never said Obama wasn't probably going to be the nominee and I never said either of them wouldn't make a good President. Obama currently has 1885 delegates. If you could wipe the spittle off your chin for a moment, you will notice that 1885 < 2025, the number necessary to become the Democratic nominee.
Frankly, I think the risk of damage to the party comes from the Obamaites covering their ears shouting "Shut up, shut up, shut up" more than anything else.
I'll happily vote for Obama and I'll happily vote for Clinton, my "insanity" notwithstanding.
FunMe
· 1 year ago
So how can Hillary close the gap if she's 140 behind?
Ann_in_KC
· 1 year ago
2000
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 1 year ago
According to your minions, Hillary is the Devil. I will take that as a yes.
jimfromthefoothills
· 1 year ago
She is the worst god-damn human on the planet "vote for me because I am a woman". Vote for me because ignorant racists will not vote for a n.
She makes me want to puke. When she told the story about poor people skipping meals so her campaign can continue is sickening. The Clintons will NEVER stop begging other people for money. They are parasites.
Jim Olson
· 1 year ago
If this is the sort of visceral hate she inspires now, and she is not even the nominee, imagine what it will be like when she is President? At least four more years of the same reaction that Bush gets from America.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
And she's inspiring this kind of loathing among Democrats. Just imagine what she can do to independents and Republicans.
tinfoil hattie
· 1 year ago
Wow. Compared to what Obama's supporters like YOU are doing to disenfranchise and shove hate onto women voters, Clinton is an amateur. When are you going to start begging for women's votes? Around November, when McCain is looking high in the polls because YOU, and other Obama supporters like you, and Obama himself, have less than no interest in considering what 51% of the population has to say about the way you treat us? Wait, don't tell me -- it'll be MY fault if Obam loses in November, because no matter how horrifically my gender has been treated by my suppsosed "allies," I "owe" him my vote, right? Doesn't matter if men like you have heaped gender-based hatred on anyone who supports Hillary Clinton, as well as on Hillary Clinton herself. I "owe" it to you and to all the other boyz to participate in throwing myself under the bus -- again.
Now, go ahead with the "I don't hate her because she's a woman! I hate her because she's a bitch!" and "You bitchez are always looking for misogyny" arguments. I haven't had a chance to play Feminist Bingo for about 10 minutes or so.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
No, I just loathe her. Unless we're only allowed to loathe men, now. Is that a new rule I missed? Loathing men in politics good, loathing women in politics bad? As for disenfranchising voters, racist attacks do a good job as well. One thing Obama never did was say anything sexist about Hillary. Or are you guys only concerned about bigotry when it involves women but not blacks? Not every slight is prejudice. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. But sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. (Oh, and that's a reference to psychology, but I'm sure it's sexist now too.)
tinfoil hattie
· 1 year ago
You're such a woman-hater. Just admit it, and you'll feel better. If it has nothing to do with her being a woman, can the sexist crap. Criticize her policies, record, and pertinent behavior without ONCE using a sexist stereotype. Can you do it? Can you write a post that does that?
And look at all this straw you're wading around in! I don't know about loathing men. The men in my life, I love very much. Men in politics, I judge on their records. Love John Edwards. Hate George Bush. Both men. Never said anything about their looks, penis size, sound of their laughter, castrating tendencies (oh wait, that's only about women), their bitchiness (oh wait, that's only about women, too!), etc. See how easy it is?
And nice "Look! Over there! Racism! So I don't have to answer to my own sexism, because someone else did something bad, too!"
Really. It's predictable, and tiresome.
Tinfoil Hattie
shrrrr
· 1 year ago
After defending Clintons for twenty years, I can now say I actually hate them. The word 'hate' does not come easily...but it's the word that works....I HATE CLINTONS.
I loved her speech. I got goose bumps. It is a truly great speech from a great public servant. Its like Eugene Debs meets Adlai Stevenson. And I am beginning to think she is going to win this in the end.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
maxstar212,
Eating shit kills brain cells.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
Yeah it was better than Cats
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
are you on crack? she's at her absolute worst when giving a speech. it's a droning, yelling monotone bore.
donotmakemecomedownthere
· 1 year ago
I AM A CLINTON AND I DEMAND YOUR RESPECT!!
That's what's wrong with her.
Jim Olson
· 1 year ago
Yep. Seems to me we got over the divine right of Kings several centuries back.
1billinnj2
· 1 year ago
the clintons will still try to steal this nomination.
AngelaChanning
· 1 year ago
I don't know about the other Gentle Readers, but I am getting the impression John does not care for Hillary. ;-)
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
The thing is, you guys will never know how pro-clinton we were last year. The past two years. I literally had bloggers balling me out at paries for being too pro-Clinton. That is how much damage she has caused. These are Clinton-haters who are pissed at her now. These are the people who actually liked her, and now loathe her.
vkobaya
· 1 year ago
you guys will never know how pro-clinton we were last year.
Actually, I was very disgusted with you last year for your rabid support of Hillary. Couldn't figure out where you were coming from. Bill has charisma to spare, but he sure isn't sharing it with his wife. Unfortunately, even without opening her mouth, she is a loathsome character. Hard to be sure if she makes its worse by talking. Yeah, I supported her too, but that was way back around 1992, 93 when the Republicans did that hatchet job on her healthcare plan. But the more I saw of her, the more I found I couldn't stand her.
I would love to see a woman behind the desk in the Oval Office, but Hillary is not that woman. She is self serving and if she puts women in positions of power, she won't make the necessary changes to provide lasting benefits after her terms in office rather, like Pelosi, she is creating a legacy that will insure many, many more years of discrimination and hatred against women in power. Hillary is doing women no favors with her behavior, rather giving more fuel to the misathropes, missogynists and Neanderthals.
vwcat
· 1 year ago
John, I know what might be driving them now. There have been some reports on how Obama has taken over and is consolidating the party into his party. And he is purging some of the Clinton structures put in place over 20 years and replacing them with his own. It could be that the Clintons are terrified if they leave that Obama will purge everything about them out. He is building a new democratic party that repudiates the dlc and clintonism. That has to terrify them. This is why they are going crazy. Obama has embraced the 50 state strategy and partnered with the dnc. Open Left had a post last week about how Obama is taking over many aspects of the party. It seems Obama wants to shut out people like Podesta and Clinton sympatizers and their little groups and rebuild it from the mess the Clintons left it in and under their iron grip. The party is moving away from the Clintons and with the new day offered by Obama. A renewed party reinvigorated. This has to terrify the Clintons and their little minions.
Paul_In_SF
· 1 year ago
John, as I started reading this post I thought that maybe you were being a little bit harsh, but then I remembered that the reason that I am sitting in front of the computer right now is because I too found myself shouting at the TV and just couldn't stomach the sight of Ms Clinton and her entourage for another second. You are right. It's beyond time that she packed her bags and went home.
troqua
· 1 year ago
I just don't get it. What kind of person, a woman worth 100 million dollars, brags about taking money from poor people who skip meals to keep her pointless pursuit alive with false hope? Shame on you, Hillary! I will never forgive the Clintons for what they've done in this process.
Paul_In_SF
· 1 year ago
I was thinking the same thing when I saw the report yesterday about the kid who sold his bike and his video games to raise money for her. She SHOULD be ashamed.
Steve_in_CNJ
· 1 year ago
can we have a show of hands? how many readers of this blog have stopped giving to their candidates because of hillary? i'm not buying it.
she just said she would fight like mad for the democratic nominee. she also correctly noted that the primary has energized the party. how is that a bad thing? obama made a mistake avoiding the free press coverage in WV, coverage that would not have been possible without hillary.
hillary's a politician. obama is a better politician. everyone knows he is the nominee. we don't need the hysteria.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
I can tell you right now that the donations for the candidates are not coming in as quickly and as large as they did last time around. I can see it in the folks we try to raise money for. And the DNC reported on it themselves a few weeks ago, they're not raising enough money because this primary is competing - they even said so. And I'm sorry, but I was contacted by a real finance director of a real campaign. So feel free to disagree, but that's already 3 examples.
AngelaChanning
· 1 year ago
John, start up your Photoshop and start selling some T-Shirts!
Good article. Yet they still are having a lot of trouble believing in the concept of a new kind of politics. Trying so hard to hang with the old model, as this quote shows: "“Obama needs a bass line to the melody of his positive message,” said a Democratic strategist who backs the group’s aims."
Some people just can't envision a campaign without mud.
interlude
· 1 year ago
ok so the Clinton Camp logic is that whenever a dem wins WV the Dem wins the WH. lemme play out that sort of thinking: dems don't win oklahoma, and they still win the WH. neither Clinton nor Obama will win oklahoma, ergo, Obama wins in November.... ;-)
Hmmm. If I saw the name of that product and knew nothing about it, I would be envisioning a whole different use for it.
FightBack
· 1 year ago
OMG! The Dem is ahead by about 3,500 votes with 58% counted in MS 01. (per Kos) That's red Mississippi my friends! Don't fret, HRC will likely drop out soon after Kentucky is over.
"WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?" --JOHN ARAVOSIS
God that makes me hot. lol :)
interlude
· 1 year ago
WV Exit polls: 63% said that Hillary is honest..
that little stat says alot about WV voters
Ann_in_KC
· 1 year ago
Edwards getting 7% of WV vote. Doesn't that represent a lot of white votes that wouldn't vote Clinton?
FightBack
· 1 year ago
Just noticed Kleeb, with 15% reporting is ahead 68%-26%.
SINGING_TROLL
· 1 year ago
Oh, I know just how pro-Clinton you were John...
I was banned several times for trying, sometimes hysterically, to point out what an absolute shit she is.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
LOL OMG you're kidding?
shell
· 1 year ago
hahahaha I was banned -- twice! -- two years ago. And now I have had my comment posted on the front page!
Times change .....
SINGING_TROLL
· 1 year ago
GO KLEEB!
Steve_in_CNJ
· 1 year ago
maybe you'd prefer that obama lost to "none of the above'. that would have been the outcome tonght if hillary had dropped out. she is frustrating to those of us who want the campaign against mccain to start, but she attracts female, blue collar voters in huge numbers. it's perilous to the party to keep up this drumbeat of hate. it actually sounds petulant.
follow the example the obama campaign and tone down the hysteria just a wee bit.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
Obama can't tell her what needs to be said. For a variety of reasons he is not the man to tell this particular woman that it's over.
In the U.S. Senate race, Scott Kleeb leads fellow Democrat Tony Raimondo 66 percent to 28 percent with one percent of the vote counted.
FightBack
· 1 year ago
I'm so glad for the tax refund......I split it in three parts. Some to the dems, food and gas. Actually, I think I'll use more for the Dems in the future. How about starting a movement with this idea?
Sage24
· 1 year ago
Bill Clinton was right, IT IS a fairy tale, but it is his wife who is spinning it. Delusional? Yes. Taking her supporters on a fool's errand? Yes. Begging for donations? Pathetic.
Only fools will contribute to this multi-millionaires campaign, that is going nowhere.
legaldiva
· 1 year ago
John,
You really did used stick up for her. I remember because It caused me to boycott you. I couldn't believe you were being so blind. The boycott didn't last that long. I got over myself. Plus, I love this blog too much. I don't even watch TV news anymore. I rely on you and 8 other blogs to get my daily news and my quality of life has increased 1000% Don't let her stress you John. It's over. It's not worth it.
SociologistTina
· 1 year ago
"The happiest person in America tonight is John McCain."
LOL! That's a good one!
I'm not so very fond of this post, but I like the ending! I guess we ALL lose except him!
Nigel Elliott
· 1 year ago
Democrat Travis W. Childers wins Mississippi special Congressional election. The GOP ads tied Childers to Obama and pastor Wright. Huge win for Dems!!!!
johnosahon
· 1 year ago
SHAME ON YOU HILARY CLINTON, SHAME ON YOU. MEET ME AT OREGON, where we will DESTROY YOU.
obama is leading hilary by 20 points in two polls released in oregon.
and john this post was HILARYRIOUS but sad.
grandma
· 1 year ago
Just saw that Nigel...wooo hoooo.....great news !!
interlude
· 1 year ago
so she wins with 62%...63% This is the best she has done.
let's look at the best he has done.
Idaho 4 Electoral Votes Obama 79% Clinton 17% Obama +62%
Hawaii 4 Electoral Votes Obama 76% Clinton 24% Obama +52%
Alaska 3 Electoral Votes Obama 75% Clinton 25% Obama +50%
Washington 11 Electoral Votes Obama 68% Clinton 31% Obama +37%
Georgia 15 Electoral Votes (Competitive with Bob Barr) Obama 67% Clinton 31% Obama +36%
Colorado 9 Electoral Votes Obama 67% Clinton 32% Obama +35%
Minnesota 10 Electoral Votes Obama 66% Clinton 32% Obama +34%
Someone had written these stats on Huffingtonpost. It was interesting.
Which one of these states does West Virginia negate:
Kansas - Obama won by 42% Colorado - 34% Minnesota - 34% Georgia - 35% Virginia - 28% Idaho - 62% North Carolina - 14% Mississippi - 25% Maryland - 25% Wyoming - 24% Vermont - 21% Wisconsin - 17% Hawaii - 52% Washington D.C. - 52% ** Louisiana - 22% Nebraska - 35% Illinois - 32% Alabama - 14% Utah - 18% North Dakota - 25% Alaska - 51% South Carolina - 29%
States Clinton won by 14% or more:
Oklahoma - 24% Arkansas - 44% Massachusetts - 16% New York - 17% Rhode Island - 18%
interlude
· 1 year ago
he will redraw the red/blue electoral map
Milli
· 1 year ago
LOL. John is losing it. Hang in there buddy........she'll have to go away sometime.
clytemnestra
· 1 year ago
I was so happy that Keith pointed out what I was thinking when Terry kept pointing to the floor flight with Carter and Kennedy (and even McGovern) . . .WE LOST THOSE ELECTIONS!
And Terry kept saying that these floor fights were a good thing ... really? Whose party are you and Hillary working for if you think it's a good thing.
She keeps reporting history of how no Dem has won the white house w/o winning WV ... well no Democrat has won the white house when it has gone to a floor fight EITHER!
Coming Undone
· 1 year ago
At first I would just lower the volume, then I muted the TV now I just turn the station until she is gone. I cannot stand to look at Hillary, I hate to see her just as much as I hate so see Bush.
Hillary is a menace to Democratic society. The Clinton's ego trumps everything.
debrazza
· 1 year ago
Oh god I am so with you there. I cannot even look at her face now. Yuck. Just yuck.
Pangolin
· 1 year ago
I get all of my news from the radio. I have to say when I hear Hillary's tone-deaf squawck starting I leap to change stations. All that McCain would have to do to win the general election would be to play tapes of Hillary contradicting herself in her own, hideous, voice. Well, that and her endorsement of John McCain.
Voters will vote for the undead McCain just to avoid hearing her voice for four years.
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
Mike Huckabee is almost as big a brown-noser as John Cornyn. but not quite.
he is so buckin' for vp. please please please let it be Huckabee.
High Crimes & Misdemeanors
· 1 year ago
Well the msm is saying that those who voted for clinton, well over 50 percent, actually noted in the exit polls that Obama believes everything that the Rev. Wright said. It worked clinton, it worked, the racist fools in West Virgina have bought the farm.
Ann_in_KC
· 1 year ago
Clinton 'determined' after win in W. Va., but does it matter? By Steven Thomma and William Douglas | McClatchy Newspapers
---snip--- Turnout in West Virginia appeared average, according to Sarah Bailey, West Virginia's deputy secretary of state. That would be a letdown from the surge of voting in earlier states, a reflection perhaps of the fact that Obama didn't compete heavily in the state or that voters sensed that the four-month campaign was nearing a conclusion.
debrazza
· 1 year ago
I love MClatchy, they have brilliant all campaign.
Dave of the Jungle
· 1 year ago
No Democrat ever won the Whitehouse who mutated into a bleach blonde wolverine.
blogmob
· 1 year ago
hagee's "apology" shows how the right wing is willing to act in order to get their guy elected. the left is still too divided and disorganized. the hillary-bashing here will not help our situation. obama's inexperience on the national stage (though i far prefer him to hillary) as exemplified by his waffling on the american flag pin, will also hurt. i do not have a great feeling about this. i think we really need to make a huge issue about the supreme court, actually, and the "unitary executive" problem.
John Aravosis.... I am so with you. And I say this as a woman, a feminist and a progressive. Where once, I had so much respect for her...She. now. makes. me. sick. She is contemptible and every single minute that she stays in this race, is an intentional act of sabotage to erode and undermine Obama, and by proxy, the Democratic Party, and, by proxy, the United States of America. Traitorous bitch.
SINGING_TROLL
· 1 year ago
Hillary:
Queen of Snots
dad
· 1 year ago
no comment.
she isn't worth it.
lloydletta
· 1 year ago
How do you feel about the possibility of Sam Nunn as VP for Obama. The talking heads are mentioning that right now? Will you be silent about it?
If Sam Nunn is VP, does that mean Obama will break his promises on DADT?
I'm no fan of Hillary Clinton, but this shrill hysteria from this site makes no sense. If you want to beat John McCain, don't go after Hillary Clinton - it just alienates her supporters - who are needed in the general election.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
As I recall ,you're a Republican, so I'll take your advice with a grain of salt :-) And at this point, Hillary is causing so much damage, the last thing I'm worried about is her supporters.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
Well, it's over, isn't it? It's a wagon train! We've got baggage and the wagons are rolling. Onward to November!
Butch1
· 1 year ago
I have to admit, I have not tuned in to listen to the pundits hash and rehash what Clinton has to do to pull this off. There is no chance, none, yet they continue to stir the pot. I just can't tune in this evening. I'll wait for results tomorrow morning.
TampaZeke
· 1 year ago
John, I am sooooo right there with you. I used to think the Clinton's could do no wrong. I've spent many, many hours of my life defending one or both of them. Now I despise them both and find myself yelling at the screen at her and her delusional shillers..
They both just need to go away.
vkobaya
· 1 year ago
I'm still not sure that Obama is the one, but compared to Hillary ... he looks heaven sent. In fact, find it very curious how awesome he looks compared to every other major candidate. The others are sort of burnt, spent matches held up to the sun, the sun being Obama. I still think that Kucinich was the genuine article and have no doubts about his qualifications. Obama seems to me look good only because the media and small minds dismissed the real supernova, who was Kucinich.
Donna_Z
· 1 year ago
I'm visiting this site with the hope of finding a kindred spirit. Thank you for your delightful post, music to me ears. Hillary's speech tonight was straight out of delusional land.
And while we watch this go on, we should remember that at this point in 2004, Kerry had raised $100,000,000 for the summer season. That is exactly what we should be doing instead of gagging on the Clintons' subtle race baiting. This must stop.
DastiusKrazitauc
· 1 year ago
"Why is the media even covering her? "
They love the drama. It makes better TV. And that's all they're really about. MSNBC showed a good bit of Obama's speech today in Missouri. When he was done, they cut back to Chris Matthews, who then shat on Obama's speech, calling it a dull "seance". Actually, the crowd seemed quiet because they appeared to be listening to his details. Apparently, if it isn't full of screaming cheers, it is not "good TV", and therefore, it isn't an "effective" speech.
Coming Undone
· 1 year ago
How many turning points has Hillary had?
Hillary is crazy, she is too delusional to function. The Super-delegates and the rest of the Democratic party even Hillary supporters have to be adults, there are real issues to deal with, we cannot afford to indulge the Clinton's
philipspaulding
· 1 year ago
Calm down. No nominee has enough delegates to win, yet. So why is it so horrible that Hillary continues to compete? Huckabee waited until McCain had enough delegates before he conceded. In any event, Obama needs Clinton's voters, like it or not, and your hysterical ranting and raving will not help bring them over. Believe me, you and the other useless bloggers are hurting Obama with your deranged Hillary-hatred.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
I've already explained in detail in my post why and how she is hurting the party. You and she have no explanation as to how you're NOT hurting fundraising for congressional candidates, how you're not forcing afscme and the aft and emily's list to waste money that they should be spending on viable races, how you're not forcing obama to waste time on hillary that he should be spending on mccain. You're hurting the party, I've detailed how, and you have no response.
Tennessean
· 1 year ago
Clinton is hurting Congressional candidates?! Oh, really! If the results of the last 3 special elections are any indication, Congressional candidates from the Democrats are doing JUST FINE, John. Donations to the DNC are not happening until Brazile and Dean include Florida and Michigan voters, and step back from their illegitimate brinksmanship over the 100% sanction on Delegates. Obama will be the one hurting the party--he plans to restructure a burgeoning progressive movement into the Cult of Obama apparently. Obama doesn't want any Democrats to donate money to Emily's list, Progressive Media, AmericaVotes, VoteVets or any other progressive organizations anyway. He wants a top-down-centralized Democratic Party with millions of Obamabots marching and donating to diktats of The Party of Obama. It's so 1984!
Obama had more to do with those three elections than Hillary, who wasn't even around.
Obama campaigned with the guy who won in Illinois and was linked to the guy who won in Lousisiana by his opponent.
As far as I know, Hillary was just trying to keep tabs on Bubba while all this was going on.
Tennessean
· 1 year ago
Why are you sending me mail? Did I request a response from you? I didn't think so.
Your comments in this email are laughable. "The guy" who won in Louisiana did so because he ran an ad distancing himself from Obama. He's a conservative Democrat, that's why he won in a Republican district. And, Obama couldn't be seen anywhere near him or it would have cost him the election.
As for your insulting and moronic comments about Sen. Clinton or "Bubba," they don't even deserve a response beyond this:
DO NOT WRITE TO ME AGAIN.
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
The question that needs to be asked is WHY THE HELL IS HUCKABEE allowed to be a correspondent on MSNBC? Would anyone in the running for Vice President in the Democratic Party be welcomed as a commentator? Answer: HELL NO. MSNBC or any other Corporate Propaganda channel would not allow a potential Democratic V.P. to show their face until after the election. Until Huckabee answers the Vice President question in the negative, the propaganda media need to stop sucking up to him, and for god's sake they shouldn't be PAYING his slimy bigoted Baptist Preacher ass to comment on the political race.
DastiusKrazitauc
· 1 year ago
"and for god's sake they shouldn't be PAYING his slimy bigoted Baptist Preacher ass to comment on the political race."
Especially since they've got their own resident go-to-bigot in Pat Buchanan.
interlude
· 1 year ago
when Barack Obama won in the swing state of Missouri, did no one bother to mention that no Democrat has EVER won the White House without winning Missouri?
Carraway
· 1 year ago
You are so not getting a Christmas card from Chappaqua this year.
mario
· 1 year ago
John,
Hillary is NOT going away! Get over it, deal with it, suck it up, and stop your pathetic whining!
Mario
vocqueen
· 1 year ago
What you said! I couldn't stand to watch her "ME, ME, ME!" speech tonight. The moment it started, I found myself shouting, "Shut UP, Hilary!" at the television machine. Decided the best thing for me to do was change the channel until she was done.
What part of "It's over, you lost Hilary" does this woman NOT UNDERSTAND?
Catsandbeer.com
· 1 year ago
wow, this hillary situation really has become your undoing - embarrassing
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
Yeah it's terribly embarrassing that I've been caught publicly defending the guy who's going to be our next president. I can only imagine how much that's gonna hurt my future. What ever shall I do?
Catsandbeer.com
· 1 year ago
you're not defending anyone, you're bleating like a coked up unhinged zealot - I voted for obama in the primaries and will in the general but jesus christ, take a step back
cenpendem
· 1 year ago
I work with the folks of WV and I can tell you that it is revealing to work with such poorly educated and ill informed folks, I am ashamed that the democrat winner, tonight is so sproud to have carried the vote after milking the racist base of this population. Hillary is now Strom Thormund or George Wallace
Rob Mule
· 1 year ago
What can I say that wasn't said by HRC's family-less stage, robotic gestures, salmon pantsuit and matching coral necklace???
obsessed
· 1 year ago
Don't worry - it's almost over.
ZennButtKicker (tlhwraith)
· 1 year ago
Viceroy said:
"ohn: You are so right about the Clintons - some of us have been saying exactly the same things while most of those who post here, including you, were cheering them on as America's royal family. But two things: what is being revealed is that Obama is not going to be able to carry the white working class and rural vote, period - end of story, and therefore he will not win, no matter how many African Americans,white wine drinking liberals, and overprivileged college kids (who are pretty much his coaltion now) come out, 2) criticiizing West Virginians and denigrating them because they happen to have a different point of view that you is unAmerican, fascist, and worse of all, a kind of elitism by a group of people who have no claims at all of being superior in any way - it is also a confirmation of the growing feeling among many Americans that Obama and his supporters are out-of-touch with average Americans. So score one for being right that Clintons are fundamentally evil, but deduct one for being so ideologically driven as to not to see that Obama and company are no better at all. It takes more to be a successful president than a pretty face able to spew forth preprogramed ear-candy. Obama has no more to do with most of us than that mulitmillionaire gigolo the Democrats nominated last time, and he is going to lose by a landslide. "
And yet "somehow" Obama has gotten more votes and carried more states than Clinton. Quit drinkin the koolaids, the reality is that come election time, Clinton isn't going to be carrying WV either. The truth is that Obama will carry all the traditional blue states, just like most other Dem candidates, and the really important bit is that he can compete in states that Clinton doesn't stand a chance. Clinton has won pretty much just in states that are true-blue anyway, or where Dems don't stand much of a chance no matter who is running.
Also, not to point out the obvious, but most of the population of this country lives in areas that Obama will have very little trouble winning versus McCain. There's a reason California has 300 something delegates and WV has like 30, they are nowhere near as important in terms of the election (Despite all the plattitudes about every vote counting, it's kind of obvious our system is rigged towards the large population states deciding POTUS). The bottom line is that most of the population center states that Clinton has one will more than likely go to Obama. Most people I know who voted for Clinton voted for her because they liked her, not because they disliked him.
Time to stop propagating the "Clinton myth" of greater electability. The MSM has been singing it lately because it's the only thing that keeps the boobs tied to the tubes so to speak. Bottom line, Clinton lost. If she is "more electable" then logic dictates she would have, gasp, won. It takes more than the "Right" skin color to win an election. Clinton has run a piss-poor campaign, made incredibly dumb decisions at every turn, shown she can take the second biggest warchest ever compiled and not only blow it, but go into debt! What part of this, except for the theoretical parts people like you still cling to, make her the better candidate?
surfer87501
· 1 year ago
Hillary is pulling a Joe Lieberman. And she's going to keep going as far and as long as she can, because she's basically supported by the war machine. And those folks don't care if it's Hillary or John, they just want to make sure that it's not Barack.
ggm1957
· 1 year ago
I have to leave the room if Hillary is on tv (when I am where I cannot change the channel). I can't stand to listen to or look at her. The media really changed after she whined and now seems to be covering her all the time. The media time she gets is ridiculous. Where is the equal time for Obama? I haven't seen it. It is way past time for her to get out of there and leave sometime for fundraising for all the Democratic offices.
klttmd
· 1 year ago
I have never laughed so hard in my life. This is, without a doubt, the funniest post of this primary season. Seriously, Aravosis, if you are already in therapy get your meds upped...and if you aren't, get yourself some help immediately.
You have come completely unglued. You need to stop making a fool of yourself. Really. Get a grip.
rugbyman
· 1 year ago
State by state? - she wins kentucky and puerto rico. loses montana, oregon and south dakota. Florida and Michigan are put back in play like they shoud be. The delegate count is reset to 2200+. He does not meet the threshold, she does not meet the threshold but Florida, Puerto Rico and Michigan give here a 500k popular vote lead. Then you tell me that the super delegates should side with Obama b/c he was unable to reach the delegates and lost in the popular vote. This whole process is pathetic and your hysteria makes it worse. I am from Texas and she won the popular vote here and may lose the delegate count in my state. You seem to think that is fair? I have already sent a petition to Howard Dean stating that the signees will not vote for Obama in the general election if Florida and Michigan are not handled correctly. That is my right and my power as a voter. I would rather punish the democratic party with 4 years of McCain than to let a few power hungry party leaders take votes away from the citizens of Florida and Michigan. That is my perception of events (not what the Clinton campaign told me to say) and my right as a voter. I will work to get Obama defeated if the party does not let every vote count equally and all citizens get to vote. I was going to wait a few more weeks to respond to this site after the DNC rules meeting like I promised people I would but it gets unbearable to read this crap. Tell me nicely what is unfair or undemocratic about my path to the Cinton presidency? Where is my logic false? And I do not want to told I am uneducated, stupid or misinformed. I am none of those so please stick to facts.
fredndallas
· 1 year ago
Maybe I don't feel these sentiments with quite the same intensity as John wrote, but every single point he made are ones I absolutely agree with -- and my feelings are pretty damned intense, too. One point John left out. This total con-artist Hillary threw her arms around every mega corporation monopolist, neo-con thinking jerk on the planet, collecting graft money from every one of them, as well as supporting their aims in her bought and paid for votes. Then in what had to be an historic transformation, suddenly she became the progressive Ms. Hillary, protector of the American middle class. Gag me. Amazingly the media has not really called her on this GLARING contradiction. If she is a symbol of our times (and I think she is), "our times" are FAR more screwed up than I even imagined. In over 40 years of voting strictly for Democrats, if she is on the ticket, I will have the most trouble I have EVER had when I punch the hole.
Filo
· 1 year ago
"I would rather punish the democratic party with 4 years of McCain than to let a few power hungry party leaders take votes away from the citizens of Florida and Michigan. That is my perception of events (not what the Clinton campaign told me to say)"
Do not let the door hit you, you miserable shit.
ggm1957
· 1 year ago
Well Swami, what is with the "uppity" comments? Is that the way you feel?
HeartlandLiberal
· 1 year ago
Your comment on fund raising is very accurate. I have for six months been returning the pleas and questionnaires and all fund raising materials form the Democratic generic committees (House, Senate, etc), with zero donation, but a laundry list centering around H. Clinton of why Hell will freeze over (or Clinton will stop destroying the party) before I resume my donations. I now donate only directly to candidates, e.g. Obama, my Congressional Rep, or to certain groups, like moveon.org. I suspect I am not alone in this tactic right now.
My wife gets upset when I say "I HATE Hillary Clinton". And I know my dear sweet mother in her grave down in Alabama, who taught me to NEVER say you hated someone, that was a sin, is spinning in her grave at how often I use the phrase.
It is hard to find better words than "loathe" and "hate", however, to describe the anger any rational person, especially a Democrat, should have at her and Bill, who have proven to be blindly self-serving self-centered power hungry politicians.
And I have had enough of those in the past few decades to suffice for now, thanks very much. .
mudshark
· 1 year ago
Horrible human being ? Sheesh, must need to get knee jerk reactionists to comment on yer blooog. Me , myself and I see no problem with her continuing on. I think for the remaining states, it's a must. I like both candidates so I see it straight down the middle.I will support which ever candidate wins the nomination. I also believe she should be the choice for VP, simply because Sen Obama will need the people who voted for her. The way you wrote yer post shows yer disdain for her. I'm sure that will feed the rabid Obama supporters all the more. I dislike both supporters who relentlesly bash each other. I don't see how they can help win in Nov. In short, yer screwin up the party. Try saying something unifying.
mudshark
· 1 year ago
Oh, one more thing. If she gets out now. She does in fact disenfranchise all the voters in those states. That ain't no way to win an election. We'll NEED those VOTERS. Wondering about Bill Clinton? 20 million new jobs, 5.4 trillion dollar deficit. yeah, he sucked.
politicjock
· 1 year ago
For the past couple of weeks, I was amongst those Obama supporters who was trying to mend with Clinton supporters. I strongly believed that Clinton would, after WV, begin to prepare for a graceful and honorable exit which would be carried over the remaining contests. After all, Obama has almost secured the nomination as he leads Clinton by every single available metric.
With her speech in WV, Clinton clarified her position in regard to the rules of the Party. Before and after the primary, Clinton and her surrogates, went all the way in what should be rightfully called a disregard of the internal rule of law of the party. Basically claiming that the rules must be changed, that the millions of voters who have already voted don’t count, and that the elected pledged delegates don’t count either.
What seems to only count for Clinton is the popular vote of some but not all contests (after all many caucus states don’t divulge their numbers) and the superdelegates. This is because those are the two only metrics that she can hope to change in her favor.
While it is true that Clinton and her surrogates have stopped the direct attacks on Obama, they have not stopped (and actually increased) their attacks on the Party’s rules and regulations as well as the will of the majority of its voters thus far.
The Clintons and their surrogates keep moving the goalpost as they see fit and they must have a lot of clout within the upper echelons of the party since no one (where are you Howard Dean?) is telling them they should stop their extralegal attacks on the Party’s rules and regulations.
On Meet the Press last Sunday, talking about the FL and MI delegations, Terry McAuliffe said that "the rule is 50 percent" and that he would be content with 50% of the delegations from those states seated. Now, two days later, they want 100% of the delegates seated as is, even though Clinton herself said back in December, that these primaries "will count for nothing".
Their rationale is that we need 50 states in November but they don’t seem to care about the fact that they might end up with 25 states if they keep pushing their unorthodox efforts and drive away a large chunk of Obama supporters in the process.
Since there is no logical explanation to Clinton’s refusal to play by the rules, the only possible explanation is that what we are witnessing is a pure and simple coup attempt by the Clintons and their surrogates. Now that they cannot win by the rules that they themselves have helped to lay out and that they have accepted at the beginning of the process, they feel it’s ok for them to demand that the rules be changed as they see fit in order to make the math work in their favor.
They now claim that they could win the popular vote but what they are not saying is that they are only referring to those states that hold primaries. Clinton knows very well that some caucus states don't release their popular votes results so, while with one hand she acts as the champion of democratic voters by demanding that FL and MI be seated, on the other hand she is openly trying to disenfranchise the voters of those states where caucuses are held.
Clinton has already passed the point of no return by openly declaring that the number of delegates needed to win the nomination (2,025) is null and void and that the new number should be 2,209. By doing so, she has done great damage to the integrity of the primary process. Clinton and her surrogates have clearly espoused the belief that the end justifies the means and they will not stop their attempts to win the nomination at all costs.
And so we find ourselves in this Orwellian land of double speak where Clinton pretends to be the champion of democracy and the popular vote while she’s openly and directly undermining the democratic process since her only path to the nomination is for the superdelegates to overturn the the will of the pledged delegates.
Clinton has taken a very dangerous route because if she believes that the Obama supporters will sit idly by and let her destroy the integrity of the electoral process of the Democratic party she’s highly mistaken. This was supposed to be the year of the Democrats, the year when the people throw out the Rupublicans because of all their failed policies. Instead, because of the thirst for power of one person, we are more and more likely to witness a civil war within the Party that will cripple it for years to come.
5.4 trillion dollar Surplus, I really hate it when I do that. BONK! But I think you folks got the jist of what I was trying to say. Have a great day folks.
LawMichigander
· 1 year ago
Wow I am amazed that people are still letting the Clintons get away with the don't disenfranchise the Michigan voters argument. The reason that Michigan doesn't count is because of Hillary 100%. She was the one that broke the rules and strong armed Michigan Democratic Politicians to move the date forward. Why you ask, so Michigan would have more of a say in the national election and it would rubber stamp her inevitable win.
Well I guess if you think allowing an election with one candidate on the ballot is valid and Democratic then you also have to conclude that Saddam was a real President and not a Dictator.
hf_jai
· 1 year ago
That's not only a lie, it doesn't even make sense. If Hillary's win was "inevitable" (as it admittedly seemed at the time) why would she care when Michigan voted?
Another lie. There were FOUR candidates on the Michigan Democratic ballot: Clinton, Dodd, Kucinich and Gravel. There was also a fifth choice of uncommitted. Surrogates of Obama paid for ads to get people to vote for the fifth choice. Obama and Edwards both knew they couldn't beat Clinton in an early primary while they were focused on Iowa. But they knew that if they could put their votes together as uncommitted, so that she received less than 50% of the vote, it would be reported as a defeat by the media.
It was also Obama supporters in the Michigan legislature who blocked a re-vote. Just one more case of Barrack saying one thing, and then having his minions do the exact opposite.
LawMichigander
· 1 year ago
It is not a lie and I guess you are as blind as a bat and a robot Hillary supporter. Do you know how crazy and stupid you sound trying to refute my argument with Dodd, Kucinich and Gravel. There were no ads except Hillary ads here in Michigan except on the last few days before the election when a few Michigan politicians ran uncommitted ads in Southeast Michigan only. Go make an appointment with your therapist.
mudshark
· 1 year ago
This contest has brought so many voter into the Dem Party , why would you want to turn some of those folks away? Both candidates have done this, not just one.
jr
· 1 year ago
"you need 3,000 delegates to win"-Hillary after Puerto Rico
LeftCoastOracle
· 1 year ago
John, you're beginning to sound desperate and it isn't attractive. For DOG sake get over it. I voted for Obama and I, too, believe that he has the nomination but railing against Clinton won't make her go away. She obviously wants to play out the game and she has every right to do so.
I was a delegate to the 1980 Democratic convention when Ted Kennedy behaved so badly that it was embarrassing: he had to be dragged to the podium kicking and screaming after he lost to Carter and then wouldn't even shake hands with a sitting president while on national television. Now THAT had an impact in the general election.
We have six months to make this happen and we're in a strong position to increase our majority in both houses of Congress. So get a grip; stop with the hysterics. After June 3, when the majority of the Super Ds declare their support the money will begin to flow toward the down stream races and we'll still have five months before the general election.
So take a breath or you'll bust a vein.
philwynk
· 1 year ago
I defended her. I defended her husband. And now I'm actually wondering if the Republicans weren't right about them.
As a Republican, I'm tempted to say "It's about time, but welcome to reality." We were right about them; there was never any doubt of that.
However, your reasons fall pretty far short of reason. Here's the clue:
She makes me yell at the TV like she's George Bush, and no one other than George Bush makes me yell at the TV...
Pretty clear indication that your emotions are doing your thinking for you. That's why you couldn't see what sort of person she was in the first place. And that's why you think she's such a bad person now -- not because you actually see how bad she is, but because now she's the one preventing you from getting your way.
I'm very sorry, but as an honest Republican, I'm not pleased to have that sort of support for my point of view. Sure, you're saying that about the Clintons now, but as soon as some other Messenger of Evil comes along and gives you what you want (you know, someone like a thoroughly dishonest, closet neo-Marxist pretending to be a centrist and offering "hope" and "change"), you'll be defending them the way you did the Clintons. Honestly, I'd much rather you calmed down and decided to make your decisions based on facts and consistent reasoning, even if at first your reasons led you to oppose my point of view; I have a much better chance of convincing an honest opponent than I have of swaying the emotions of a spoiled, selfish child.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Have you given up your golf game for the war effort too?
philwynk
· 1 year ago
She can't win, the math says she lost the nomination
The math also says Obama can't win. Think he should drop out, too?
Just wondering.
DoctorJ
· 1 year ago
Hear, hear, John A., keep bringing on the hate! The Clintons have earned it.
hillwarrior08
· 1 year ago
BWAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!! I can hear you crying from way over here. It's embarrassing getting beat by 41 points isn't it? It's not even close you say? Well, she just passed him in the popular vote. (And yes, I AM including the two states that Obama is too afraid to compete in, blocking the vote because he is afraid of losing there too.) You Hillary haters are the ones giving this election to John McCain, because you continue to arrogantly insult the 17 million people who LOVE (yes LOVE) her. If you succeed in ramming this empty suit down our throats, we will happily support his opponent. I'd rather have a known quantity managing our turbulent foreign affairs than a 3 yr. Senator with questionable judgment. Good luck with that. And BTW: Hillary has more dignity and resolve than you could ever dream of, as evidenced by your childish and whiny post.
bordo
· 1 year ago
Poor hillwarrior08. You'd rather ensure the war in Iraq never ends, that the Supreme Court will tilt even more to the right, that the wealthiest of Americans will never pay their fair share in taxes. . .all because your chosen candidate ran a lousy campaign and now finds herself grasping at straws. Wow. A 41-point win in a state with, what, three electoral votes?
The fault for Hillary Clinton's campaign lies with Hillary Clinton. She ran an arrogant, front-runner strategy directed by some of the most inept losers to ever advise a presidential contender. Who hired Mark Penn? Howard Wolfson? Terry McAulliffe? She did. You want an idea of how her administration would function? Just look at her campaign. Broke, battered, directionless. By what measure would you expect her presidency to be any different?
If you're foolish enough to try to punish the most gifted politician to emerge on the American landscape in a generation, by all means cast your vote for John McCain. You'll get what you deserve. The rest of us are moving on and leaving the cult of HIllary behind.
empireofno
· 1 year ago
i really hate to interrupt this self-indulgent whinge-fest, but hillary has every right to stay in the primaries until the voters have chosen a nominee. and i'm sorry to have to inform you of this, but neither tim russert, nor andrew sullivan nor the new york times determines the democratic nominee for president: the voters do. and until BHO gets the 2209 delegates (yes i am including florida and michigan - since as democrats we believe that "every vote counts") there is NO NOMINEE and the process is still open.
hilary has done a fantastic job bringing real progressive issues to the table, unlike BHO's empty stevenson-style rhetoric - and she is able to connect with real people unlike the so-called "creative class" that - along with blacks voting 9:1 along racial lines for their man - constitutes the sum total of BHO's support.
personally i want to see a floor fight at the convention and the party reclaimed from the absurd upper-middle-income "progressives" who seem to hate poor people (provided they are white) and working-class voters. the republicans already do a good enough job at that, we don't need a bunch of pampered, wealthy obamabots banging on about how unruly the working classes are.
Diogenes
· 1 year ago
Sometimes I can't distinguish between this blog and the O'Reilly Factor. The hate flows so freely from both. If Hillary is wrong it may not mean she is evil incarnate. The same goes for her supporters.
bordo
· 1 year ago
Hillary is not evil incarnate. She has the right to continue her campaign so long as she can find people to bankroll her or so long as she wants to keep tapping her considerable fortune. Her followers are not evil, either. They have every right to send their campaign dollars her way and support her in whatever manner they choose.
The issue here is that the only possible scenario where Clinton could win would mean the destruction of the Democratic Party. If you think a convention floor fight where super delegates unite to deny the will of the voters by ignoring the overwhelming advantage Obama has in states, popular votes and delegates will not rip the entire party asunder, you're mistaken. The millions of new voters brought into this process by the fresh promise of Obama would be turned off for a very long time while minority voters would stay home in droves. It would, in short, be a disaster and ensure the election of John McCain.
liberalrapturedotcom
· 1 year ago
Wow John - you have gone around the bend. Obama is destroying the party the Clinton's are SAVING it from the idiot hordes of Obama kool aid drinkers. The man will never beat Mcain because his past is polluted with freaks, liars, and racists. RISE HILLARY RISE! She not only beat BHO last night SHE OBLITERATED HIM!!! He didn't win California * *He didn't win New York * *He didn't win Texas * *He didn't win Florida * *He didn't win Pennsylvania * *He didn't win Massachusetts * *He didn't win Ohio * *He didn't win Michigan * *He didn't win Catholic voters * *He didn't win Reagan Democrats * *He didn't win women voters * *He didn't win white voters * *He didn't win Jewish voters * *He didn't win the Latino voters * *He didn't win the Asian voters * *He didn't win the working class voters
Pangolin
· 1 year ago
Asterisk much? *Obama has won the most states, the most delegates, the most superdelegates and the most popular votes according to the Democratic Party Rules agreed to by Hillary Clinton. He's also raised the most money from voters as vs. the funding of Hillary's campaign by Bill's mystery millions. **Obama's BLACK: that's what Hillary has left. It's no surprise to the rest of us.
Lola_Getz
· 1 year ago
Well, this white, Catholic, southern woman wouldn't vote for HRC now if hers was the only name on the ballot.
BTW, regarding California, have you not seen the latest poll that said if the primary there were to be held again, Obama would beat Clinton 49%-43%? (Link: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/05/would-ob...)
Democrats could run a ham sandwich in New York and Massachusetts and it would still win the GE.
Obama's name wasn't on the ballot in Michigan and even then, Hillary only got 55% of the vote. I don't know why more people don't bring that up. Her only opponents were Kucinich and Gravel and "uncommitted" and she still only got 55%. That doesn't say a lot about the depth of her support in Michigan.
Obama lost Ohio and Pennsylvania by under 10%, once all the votes were counted.
He lost the Texas primary by just a few points and won the caucus.
Obliterating Obama in WV is the best it's going to get for Hillary Clinton.
I don't even hate her. I wish her well and at one time considered voting for her - even sent money to her campaign, That was before she took the low road. I'm sad for her more than anything else, but I know now that I definitely don't want her for my President.
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LanceThruster
· 1 year ago
(sigh) Yeah...she's bad news. It hurts to say that I could not in conscience vote for her because a flawed Dem is still better than a McSame Rethuglican but there's no way I could reward her behavior with my vote. She was not my pick from the get-go but now she's someone who I pretty much see in the enemy camp. Her Hill-bots are not much better as anyone not endorsing their queen is guilty of the most vile and misogynist motives.
HumanityCritic
· 1 year ago
Hey John, most of these losing inbreds were sent over here through that Pedophile Larry Johnson's "home of racism"(noquarter) site - those bottom feeders are pathetic.
stee
· 1 year ago
Of course Hillary has the right to stay in this race. Randy Moss also has the right to drop every pass thrown to him this year. I can't fathom why he would do so, but he's certainly has that right.
liberalrapturedotcom
· 1 year ago
you say their is a "civil war" going on in the party - but then seem to believe the way to end it is for clinton to roll over. classic obamite nonsense. "just give me what i want!!!" waaaa. Clinton now has more votes than obama. but she should leave so our lover boy can relax and we can serve his highness.
real Democrats know Obama is a fraud. we will either fight to the last vote. including florida and michigan and if we lose and the fraud becomes the nominee we WILL vote for mcCain to stop the monsters michelle and barry from taking over. Not a threat, John - a promise. It is obama that is the poison.
REZKO AYRES WRIGHT OH MY!!! REZKO AYRES WRIGHT OH MY!! As a LOYAL Democrat and a LOYAL American i will be part of the insurrection against the obama hordes in 2008!!! whoo hoo!!!
bordo
· 1 year ago
Yo liberalrapturewhatever.
You gotta be a ringer. You're parroting Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, et.al. If you're a Democrat, Donald Rumsfeld was a great secretary of defense.
Clinton does not have more votes than Obama. She has fewer victories, fewer delegates and fewer superdelegates. Put down your Kool-Aid and face the facts. She can do whatever the heck she wants. So can you. But stop acting like you're in the majority, man. The Clintons are the face of yesterday's Democratic Party. Obama is the future. Wail all you want, but facts are facts.
DCDemocrat
· 1 year ago
Don't you think it would be a touch embarrassing for Obama were Hillary to drop out of the race, and he still should lose Kentucky and Puerto Rico by double digits. You ought to give Hillary a medal for helping out such a miserably weak prospective nominee.
dalloway
· 1 year ago
Gee, a 40 point loss in WV and several Obamabots are losing their minds while you are come completely unhinged. It's not HRC's fault B.O. cannot sew up the nomination.
PolC
· 1 year ago
"...some spoiled hateful egotistical brat..."
Commenting with your back to the mirror, I see. This screed is just embarrassing. Who the hell are you to be telling anyone to get out of the race? As for the Clintons not giving a damn about the Democratic Party, what planet are you living on? The Clintons have done more for the Democratic Party and the people of the U.S. than you, me, and everyone else in our lifetimes combined.
I've been reading your stuff for a while, and it seems to me that, like Markos Moulitsas, your natural place is with the Libertarian Party. There's only one problem: the Libertarians are an outsider party that won't be holding the reins of political power in this country any time in the foreseeable future. You want to be on a winning side, so you choose the Republicans. But then the Republicans become overrun with warmongers and religious dogmatics--both anathema to the Libertarian mentality--so you switch to the Democrats and attempt to affect a hostile takeover with your own version of George W. Bush--slickly marketed, no accomplishments in public life to speak of, and no interest in anything beyond aggrandizing his own ego. The Democrats are FDR's party--the party of working people, not pusillanimous egocentric Randites--and the Clintons are true to us. Go away yourself.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Clintons ahve been a disaster for the party.
Lost the house, Senate and governorships.
Red State Dems tremble at the thought of Hillary at the top of the ticket.
Clintons used the Democratic party as a vehicle to gain power, that is all.
Rodn
· 1 year ago
Sen. Obama is a loser. And if he is the nominee of the Dem. Party; then in November he will be "The Biggest Loser" . It will be embarrassing.... Mr. Aravosis; it will be freaking embarrassing.
Sen. Obama; just as you it seems Mr. Aravosis, is clueless and at heart couldn't care less about the people. Obama cares about Obama and no matter all your hatred against HRC, and all your frustrations for supporting such a weak candidate as Mr. Obama; he will not be elected US President because he is unfit, unprepared and unelectable. That much is clear to the majority of the people that will (and they will) determine the election. Take that to the bank Mr. Aravosis, despite all your irrational and pitful writings. You are a sore loser Mr. Aravosis and all our insults will never compensate for the fatal flaws and failings of Sen. Obama as a presidential candidate. It is time for you to fall out of love; your infatuation is killing your senses.
abiodun
· 1 year ago
I started as a Hilary supporter too-voted for her in VA primary, defended Bill Clinton during monicagate(did not believe it was impeachable offence), believed 20 years of right wing radio on the Clintons was a bunch of ****. Now all she's doing is hurt the party!
PolC
· 1 year ago
Five words, Obama fanatics:
The. Clintons. Don't. Forfeit.
Ever.
politcalbyline
· 1 year ago
dang! Thought I was bad. :-)
bordo
· 1 year ago
Three words for Clinton supporters:
She. Can't. Win.
Why in God's name do you think Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and the rest of those nitwits are working so hard to keep her in the race? The GOP wants her this fall. The baggage she brings to the race --starting with the fact that she has the highest unfavorable rating among presidential candidates in many, many years-- will dwarf the skeletons in Obama's closet including the Rev. Wright. All this malarkey about how she's already been vetted? Please. Wait until the 527's start sniffing around how and where the $108 million she and Bill have earned really came from or they start checking on which foreign nationals have given the most to the Clinton Library? This will make Whitewater/Filegate/Travelgate/health care debacle issues look like patty cake.
Thomas_K
· 1 year ago
LOL, YOU are the horrible human being here. It's vitriol like this that makes me gag at the idea of voting Obama. Hillary is staying until the end, so DEAL WITH IT. The race is not over, and once Michigan and Florida are settled, and Hillary finds herself leading the popular vote by the end of these primaries, the dynamics will be completely different. And might I suggest that you take anger management classes?
LavenderLiberal
· 1 year ago
Jesus, John, talk about going off the deep end.
Not that it will mean much to you, considering how you're an A-list blogger and all, but you used to be one of my heroes, beginning back in the day when you and Mike Rogers were exposing right-wing closet cases.
And I applauded you, publicly, and repeatedly, for recognizing the Obama-McClurkin issue as the appalling slap in the face to the LGBT community it was. You GOT it, John, when hardly anyone else did. Have you forgotten all that? How did Barack become Jesus Christ, and Hillary become Regan MacNeil? They're both DLC corporatists, with precious little difference in their positions, and you know it.
What, did Hillary's WV win set you off, when you knew she was going to sweep WV anyway? Why these crazed calls for Hillary to drop out, when every Obama supporter in the country "knows" Obama already has the nomination all sewn up? What do you care, if you're so dead certain Obama is going to be the next president?
Hillary didn't cause "a civil war in the Netroots" -- Obama and the legions of his supporters did, by bashing the rest of us, telling us what old, irrelevant, uneducated, paleofeminist idiots we are, telling us to get the hell out of the way and let the "younger generation" take over, telling us how their "new" Democratic Party doesn't need us anyway -- THAT is who has created this civil war.
What makes me sick to my stomach is that it's not only split the Democratic Party -- it's split the LGBT community -- which is already half-dead in the water as a "community" to begin with. Your post is only symptomatic of that further split.
Attacking Hillary on this low level isn't going to win you any new converts, John. I've heard this same rant countless times, from countless others, and all it's ever done is push me further and further from Obama, and strengthened my support for Hillary.
The ironic thing is, I'm not even a real Hillary supporter -- but forced to choose, I'll take Hillary any day over the antigay, warmongering, GOP-admiring, flip-flopping Obama, and his campaign -- which seems to inspire nothing but intimidation and rage in his supporters.
Bobby_Sambang
· 1 year ago
Excellent post. One of the great benefits of blogging is that you can change tone, to great effect. You did that here and the urgent and despairing approach works well for you.
SluggoJD
· 1 year ago
A "Clinton hater" is too kind, you ignorant fuck...a word I seldom use.
I seriously doubt you are a Democrat, because no real Democrat would post the lies and distortions and outright carp that you just did.
But I am a Democrat, and I'm fed up with you and your ilk.
It was Obama and his campaign that went negative first - remember last June?
It was the Obama, his campaign, and the MSM that created a racism issue out of nothing - Bill Clinton's "fairy tale" comment was about MSM coverage, Hillary's "MLK-LBJ" comment was dead on because it did take a president with courage to put his weight behind the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which DID start to turn MLK's dream into reality.
It was the Obama campaign who launched Harry & Louise-like flyers - his plan for health insurance leaves millions out, her plan is an attempt to cover everyone, you god damn progressive pieces of shit know this, yet you support crap like that.
It was the Obama campaign that was caught contacting Canada behind the scenes about NAFTA.
It was Obama who gave Hillary the finger in a scripted moment.
And it is Hillary Clinton with the strength to win Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida, among others - states that REAL DEMOCRATS want to win in order to win back the White House.
Hillary Clinton has been a loyal Democrat for over 35 years. Obama is what he is.
I'll be damned if I run across crap like what you posted, and not speak my mind. You should be ashamed.
John Dean SluggoJD
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
You must admit the Clintons are hell on the party.
Bubba lost House, Senate and Governorships when he was in office.
Red state downticket candidates freely state the Hillary on the ticket would kill them in November.
I just don't see how you can believe the Clintons are good for the party.
They are typhoid for the party.
SluggoJD
· 1 year ago
You're an idiot. You think you know something because you read a book?
Reagan was president from 1980-1988. Bush from 1988-1992. Clinton won, partly because of Perot. The right had already consolidated a lot of power prior to 1992, and Gingrich launched his revolution in 1994. People like you helped spread his message. And people like you continue to do so today.
1994 was the bad time. You don't speak of 1996 or 1998, because they don't fit your right wing talking points. "Red state candidates" what? Because your talking points say so? Bullcrap.
The Clintons are certainly not the problem...they are part of the solution, because they are smart, they see through people like you, and they are not afraid to fight. Which candidate wants universal health care? Which candidate does not? See, just those two simple questions blow a hole the size of Texas into your talking points' bullshit.
Universal health care is supposed to be a Democratic Party policy. You support those who do not fight for it - whether you support Obama or McCain.
I support the candidate who wants it.
You can lie, deceive, distort, manipulate...but you can't win.
catdancer
· 1 year ago
Go away you horrible, misogynist hateful troll. How vicious can you Obamabots be? Read the numbers and see who is ahead of whom, John(No Quarter, for example)! Check out who his advisors are, John...like Austan Goolbee( let's privatize Social Security but shhhh...not out loud) and Ziggie B whose Foreign policy makes the Neocon vulcans look like virgins, you porky twit. BO is a slick Manchurian Candidate, corrupt, narcisstic and a lying, dangerous fraud. If he pays off the super Ds to steal the nomination, the Dems will go down in ignominious, flaming defeat! Only...ONLY Hillary can unite our country and crush McCain. What you are blind to, Johnnie boy, is that millions of us...MILLIONS...will NOT vote for your cute, little Messiah. Never. Man's dirty. The scandals are swirling as we speak. BO spells defeat and disaster. The crazed, inexperienced egomaniac is your candy man, Barry. Hillary works her brilliant tush off while Barry goes on vacation. Lying IS stressful. You should be ashamed of your snarky, hateful self!
Hisssssssssssss, Catdancer
Pangolin
· 1 year ago
We aren't just a little over the top in our feminista snittines are we? The MSM has hit Barack Obama with everything but the kitchen sink while virtually ignoring McSame and Shillary's faults. Everybody knows we only get presidential candidates approved by our corporate masters but only one candidate left standing has shown any inclination to tell them to stuff it: Obama. Hillary joining McCain on the the insane "gas tax holiday" just shows how low she was willing to grovel.
hf_jai
· 1 year ago
"Feminista"? "Shillary"? Rush, is that you?
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Quit telling him to "go away" from his own blog.
Geeze. You Hillbots think you own everything.
bordo
· 1 year ago
Man, the bitterness of the Clintonites is nearly Coulteresque. Sorry, folks, but Sen. Clinton ran a lousy campaign and lost by the very rules her husband and his hand-picked party appartchiks wrote. Catdancer, you'e the funniest of them all. Hillary Clinton a uniter? What are you smoking? Scandals swirling around Obama? Like what? The Rezko trial is over and Obama wasn't touched. The Ayers scandal pales in comparison to the last-minute presidential pardons doled out by Bill Clinton, which included a couple of former radicals who really did kill people. Jeremiah Wright? The GOP played that card in the reddest district of the reddest state and they still lost a special Congressional election to a Democrat by 8 points.
Obama won fair and square. Clinton lost the same way. Let her have her final weeks in the spotlight, but she's going back to the Senate, not 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
BTW, I certainly hope you follow the wishes of Sen. Clinton, who has said she will work heart and soul to elect Obama if she doesn't get the nod. Otherwise, I guess you'll be thrilled with 100 years in Iraq, no health insurance, continued tax breaks for the wealthiest, a rightwing SCOTUS poised to overturn Roe v. Wade, etc., which is what you'll get when you throw your vote to McCain.
DukatSG
· 1 year ago
What the hell is wrong with you John? WHAT THE HELL is your deal? Has it ever occurred to you that Hillary might still be in this race because she cares DEEPLY about issues and that she really does not like what Obama is doing to our party? You goddamn Obamaniacs are driving me straight out of the party. I swear, when Hillary is the nominee you better fall in line like you expected all us Clinton supporters to do. You are an out of touch elitist who thinks $75,000 is poor - of course you like Obama because he is just anothe fucking corporate brand name. Get over yourself and STOP trying to get Hillary to drop out -- Obamania isn't about Unity - it's about running Hillary out of the race.
Sorry but your "nominee" is getting CRUSHED even after he was declared the winner by the press! Does that tell you anything?
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
She lost. It doesn't matter what she cares about. It doesn't matter how many votes she got. She lost. Now it's time for her to leave, like every man and woman who has run for president before her. SHE LOST. Nothing you say can change that fact.
rugbyman2
· 1 year ago
Jonh - i asked you to reply to me a week ago and you did not. You did however make me create a new account to exercise my right to free speech on your site. You are sad. SO please tell me why delegates are more important than Votes? and where does it say in the DNC rule book that the person leading in delegates is the winner? IT says the person reaching a threshold WHICH HE HAS NOT DONE. and he will not do without a large percent of the super-delgates. When Puerto Rico votes Hillary will not only win the popular vote (like she is now) but she will win it by 500K. HOW and WHY should she drop out - based on fact and not your opinion Please respond this time and do not lock my profile out again.
DukatSG
· 1 year ago
By the way, Hillary is ahead in the popular vote! Chew on that for a while!
Pangolin
· 1 year ago
It's too bad that sHillary cannot abide by the agreements she signed to NOT campaign in Florida and Michigan. Plus everybody that's paying attention knows that Hillary has stayed in as long as she has due to the Klan vote and Rush Limbaugh's endorsement. Of course endorsing John McCain wouldn't help her much in the general election isn't going to help either. She's done and if the Democratic Party allows her to disrupt the convention they're done.
hf_jai
· 1 year ago
Again your ignorance shines. Obama broke the rules and campaigned in Florida. He also had a surrogate running ads to vote against Clinton in Michigan. Hillary did not campaign in either state.
bordo
· 1 year ago
Apparently, John Edwards disagrees with the Clinton backers about who can get things done. From the Washington Post:
Edwards to Endorse Obama Former Sen. John Edwards (N.C.) will endorse Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.) tonight in Grand Rapids, Michigan, ending a long period of neutrality for the two-time presidential candidate and giving the Illinois senator another boost of momentum as he draws ever closer to the nomination.
The endorsement was confirmed by a source familiar with Edwards' thinking.
Edwards has long been courted by both Obama and Clinton as he built a considerable constituency during his two unsuccessful runs for president. Edwards' strength was among rural and working class voters -- Obama's weakest area of support to date in the primary.
Edwards had largely disappeared from the political scene since dropping from the race in late January amid money troubles and daunting odds of ousting Clinton and Obama from their perches in the top tier.
In the immediate aftermath of Edwards' decision to drop from the race, both Clinton and Obama made a pilgrimage to North Carolina to huddle with the former candidate and make their pitch for his support.
By all accounts, those meetings left Edwards genuinely undecided. Obama's message of change and his call to end the influence peddling in Washington were clearly an obvious fit for Edwards' sympathies, but he retained some lingering concerns about Obama's depth of experience. Clinton, on the other hand, had considerable experience but struggled to represent the sort of change that Edwards believed was necessary to win the nomination.
Rumors flew for months about Edwards's leaning although of late it had been expected that if he endorsed a candidate, it would be Obama.
Matt Bennett, a former Clinton Administration official, described Edwards as the "troubadour of the working class" and said the North Carolina senator's endorsement of Obama makes it "tougher for Clinton to make the case that working class Democrats can't [or] won't support Obama."
NoBlood4Hubris
· 1 year ago
Yikes.
Pangolin
· 1 year ago
I loved the OP. Watching the Jekel to Hyde transformation of Hillary from legitimate, if right leaning, Democratic candidate to McCain's evil twin sister has been nothing short of grotesque. After the NAFTA support, after the Iraq war resolution, after the Iran threats and the "McCain and Me" remarks Hillary has no credibility as a progressive candidate.
We don't even need to go into her voting record in general or her race-baiting. Hillary needs to go back to being the pretend Senator from New York until we can organize a decent primary challenge to knock her off there too.
It's time for the Clintons to get off the stage.
hf_jai
· 1 year ago
Your ignorance is showing. Hillary Clinton is more liberal than Obama. On some issues, much more liberal. You are obviously influenced more by PR and hype than facts and reality.
a_k_a
· 1 year ago
Edwards (as I suspected all along) is a bottom-feeder. He's been masturbating Democrats with the "will he or won't he" dangle until now. His endorsement reeks of old-school politics. And like the jerk he really is, he chose to do it not before West Virginians cast their votes (where he still appeared on the ballot), but less than 24 hours after Hillary Clinton wiped the floor with Obama's onslaught of "presumptive nominee" wall-to-wall media coverage -- and, thereby, turn the focus away from the significance of Obama's loss.
ggm1957
· 1 year ago
DukatSG, how in the world can you believe that the Clintons are out for anything but themselves? She doesn't care about the issues. She cares about how she can get where she wants to go and by whatever means necessary to get there - lying, crying, spreading ridiculous rumors, whatever. It seems funny how Hillary supporters can listen to such bs and still think she is the greatest. Interesting....
rickroberts
· 1 year ago
How fucking dare you, John Avavoris! Hillary's campaign is not just one woman, but a woman backed by 17 million voters and our money. You insult us at your own peril, sweetie (to borrow a word from your messiah).
hummingbirdv
· 1 year ago
So Right... they are not operating in a vacuum. They are operating in one world.... VOTERS. 47 million of them. I'm one. We love her, our country needs her, and we want her as our 44th President. She has the broader base of support, blogger boyz, like it or not. She is the stronger candidate against McCain in Nov. no matter how much you scream.
A quote by Ghandi:
First they ignore you. Then they ridicule you. Then they fight you. Then You Win!
ggm1957
· 1 year ago
I am one of the ones who does NOT love her and who does NOT need her. We need someone who is honest and trustworthy, not someone who lies and cries and whines to get whatever she wants. It would be great to once again be a respected country by the rest of the world and Obama would make that happen.
Hubris
· 1 year ago
ANOTHER IDIOT THAT DOESN'T KNOW SHIT FROM APPLE BUTTER. WHAT MAKES YOU THINK OBAMA'S SO HONEST? HAVE YOU BOTHERED TO REALLY RESEARCH THIS GUY AND NOT ON HIS FAN SITES?
AND WHAT DO YOU REALLY KNOW ABOUT HILLARY CLINTON, ANYTHING BESIDES WHAT YOU'VE READ ON HATE SITES OR HEARD ON THE CRAPPY NEWS MEDIA THAT ARE ALL REPUBLICAN OR DROOLING OBAMABOTS?
YOU ARE THE STANDARD LOSER WHO IS DESTROYING THIS COUNTRY BECAUSE YOU DON'T DO YOUR HOMEWORK. YOU BUY INTO THE BULLSHIT AND IGNORE THE TRUTH.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
A vast right-wing conspiracy?
Or is it a left-wing conspiracy these days?
doctorate
· 1 year ago
People like you never had Hillary's back, John. Her supporters are strong, wise, mature, and substantive...and nothing like you.
Obama is weak of his own accord: his status has absolutely nothing to do with HRC. She doesn't weaken him; he is just weak. And she hasn't hurt the party; the party is dysfunctional.
We persevere. You scream.
Rock on.
SheShe
· 1 year ago
John, what do you have against Democracy? I can not believe the hate-filled rant you wasted breath on...because as I see it, the koolaid drinkers must really be afraid of HILLARY if they panicked when she won West Virginia by such a huge huge margin...They can't let the same thing happen in Kentucky so they did the thing OBAMA lectures against, do the political machine schitck by bringing in John Edwards to help stop the bleeding. HELLO! As long as OBAMA has been campaigning, and he still hasn't gotten through to those voters is not HILLARY'S fault, but OBAMA'S...She is not the self-proclaimed Messiah, (as OBAMA'S followers believe of him) . IF HILLARY had that power, she would be campaigning against McCAIN by now...My question is 'why are OBAMA followers so hate filled; That HILLARY or her followers don't fall down and bow to your MESSIAH? I am so angry how the Democrat insiders have handled all of this...and how they have treated HILLARY. Under BUSH the American people have been disenfrancised, and for once in a long long long time all American's would be a part of the nominating process, if OBAMA and the Democratic Party really cared about the voters, they would have waited until they all have their vote. I have been a passionate DEMOCRAT all my life, and now I am seriously considering registrating as an INDEPENDENT...I don't want to belong to a party that treats DEMOCRACY like this Democratic Party has done. Hell, we might as well keep GEORGE W. BUSH in the White House.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
You Hillbots sound pretty cultish yourself.
SheShe
· 1 year ago
Nope, it has nothing to do with Hillary or Obama...I just don't like the hypocrisy of 'CHANGE', and yet, the oldest political tricks are used when needed...so Change must be a selective premise... I may be angry, but I don't hate!
SheShe
In a message dated 5/14/2008 10:27:15 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes:
SheShe
· 1 year ago
John, you are acting like a spoiled brat who can't have his way. Obviously there are many millions of people who do not agree with you...and are expressing themselves...It's called DEMOCRACY!
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Way to speak truth to power, John.
Keep it going man!
ggm1957
· 1 year ago
It seems that the Hillary supporters are merely following Hillary and attacking. What else can you do when you have nothing to stand on?
SheShe
· 1 year ago
ggm....what in the heck do you think John is doing? He can rant and rave and spew hatred, but ithat's ok...(after all, he is for your candidate)....Me thinks you are being too defensive...And, you have not really said anything...Only your opinion, which is what we all are doing... "I am no better than any one person, and no person is better than me." We just have different opinions, and truth be known, we are more alike than what either one of us think.
ggm1957
· 1 year ago
Defensive? No, just sick of stupidity. I'm fed up with people just falling all over a known liar and wanting that person as our leader. Just doesn't make sense.
SheShe
· 1 year ago
ggm.... And Obama has never lied...I could use this whole page to name his lies...In fact, I will do up a page and send it your way...What I find with Obama followers, is they almost always resort to name calling, but no substance...I guess because Obama doesn't have substance in his speeches...Just rhetoric and feely good words...I am still waiting to see HOW he is going to do anything...That is why I went with HIllary, because at least she has the courage to say HOW she is going to do what she says she wants to do. GO BACK AND READ ALL OF OBAMA'S SPEECHES REGARDING REV. WRIGHT...OH, THE LIES HE TRIPPED UP ON, AND GOT BY WITH...
hf_jai
· 1 year ago
And people like me LOATHE you now. How DARE you write this drivel as though you actually know anything.
Wise up. Neither candidate has enough pledged delegates to win the nomination. They both need the supers delegates' vote. Hillary currently has the majority of the popular vote. She wins states we need in November that Barrack cannot win. It is precisely the job of the supers in these circumstances to give us the candidate most likely to beat the Republican. If they do their jobs, Hillary Clinton will be the nominee and NOTHING you can say will stop it.
Lola_Getz
· 1 year ago
Where did you get the idea that Hillary currently has the majority of the popular vote? Oh, wait, you're including Florida and Michigan as is and disregarding the caucus states (except presumably Nevada, which Clinton won).
Not going to happen.
hf_jai
· 1 year ago
No, I'm not disregarding any caucus states. But yes, I AM counting Florida and Michigan. Whether you and Donna Brazille like it or not, those were both legal, certified primaries in which real Democrats cast real votes. And whether or not the DNC stupidly chooses to break its own rules and lock out all those delegates, it doesn't mean the primaries didn't happen and the votes haven't been counted.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Obama still has more votes, even with Michigan and Florida, if you also include the caucus states.
hf_jai
· 1 year ago
AP (aka the corporate media) is lying to you. Count 'em for yourself.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Hillary is lying to you.
WASHINGTON (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton's assertions that she leads Barack Obama in the popular vote are a stretch, at best.
The New York senator is using such claims to shore up supporters and help justify why she's still in the Democratic presidential race despite trailing Obama in the number of convention delegates earned in primaries and caucuses.
The argument is supported only by using dubious math on two fronts: by excluding several caucus states won by Obama and by including Florida and Michigan primary results that the Democratic Party, to date, is rejecting.
At first I wasn't going to comment on this post. It almost seemed unreal to me. But I find myself revisiting it often, reading the lines over and over. How is it that someone can spew such venom and then consider themselves one of the good guys?
Your blog, and the gutter tactics you have used over the last few months make you no better than the woman you shit on on a daily basis.
Shame on you.
Dawn
· 1 year ago
You declare Obama the winner (PRESUMPTUOUS) of the Democratic nomination in an article I found to have all the merit and charm of a two year-old's hissy fit. Problem is, he got where he is by all the free campaigning on his behalf by a fawning, drooling media, and by CHEATING his way through caucus states. Since close to 670 or so delegates have come from caucuses, what happened in them DOES matter.
If you are at all interested in the truth, read on about what happened in just one county in Texas.
I was a member of the Credentials Committee for the Democratic Party of Collin County, Texas.
After witnessing a complete disregard for the rules of the Texas Democratic Party at my own caucus and hearing stories of bullying, intimidation, and cheating at other caucuses, I obtained copies of the caucus sign-in sheets for my county and have been analyzing them since mid-March. The data I have compiled, the written records from the caucuses, as well as my first-hand experience as a Credentials Committee member supports many allegations and complaints against Obama supporters and the Obama campaign made by voters in Collin County, in Texas, and in many other states with caucuses.
Caucuses are extremely open to fraud. If my findings and experience are any indication of what happened at them, (and I have heard ours was actually one of the better run ones), the Superdelegates should take the information into account when deciding who to support. Ever wonder why Obama wanted to do a caucus in Michigan? I can thoroughly explain.
I also witnessed the almost complete disdain and dismissal for the grievances of Hillary supporters who sent complaints and challenges to our Credentials Committee. The committee was mostly pro-Obama, including our Chair, as was the person who was legal counsel to the Collin County Democratic Party. This same pro-Obama attorney was the Rules Committee Chair. Even when it was pointed out specific delegates were ineligible, it was completely disregarded. There appeared to be a systematic attitude of making sure Obama would be the nominee, come hell or high water.
I also authored the Minority Report for the Collin County Credentials Committee and submitted it to the Texas State Democratic Party. It details the many outrageous problems at Texas caucuses as well as the lack of proper handling of complaints presented to the Credentials Committee. Our committee did not thoroughly make sure everyone who voted in the caucuses had voted in the primary or in the right precinct, or were even registered to vote in many cases. I did. On my own.
I have seen evidence of fraud such as sign-in sheets (which are used to document votes) lacking serial numbers and having been printed off the State Party website and most likely passed around prior to the caucuses. I have unequivocable proof of delegates who must be ELECTED the night of the caucuses added days or weeks after the caucuses, and of caucus packets taken home by Permanent Chairs- which could subject them to alteration.
The complaints you may have heard about the Texas caucuses in the media from the Clinton campaign are not just whining. There were alot of shenanigans down here. 70% of the caucuses were run by Obama supporters. I have the data to back this up. The people in control are the ones able to cheat. Many Clinton supporters are FURIOUS because of their experience with the absolute rigging of caucuses in Texas. But then I suppose Obama learned well how to play dirty through Chicago politics.
So, John, Hillary makes you "yell at the TV like she's George Bush, and no one other than George Bush makes me yell at the TV - until now" ? How about this...Obama makes me so sick I would rather have four more years of GEORGE BUSH, than a sneaky, lying, unpatriotic cult leader shoved down my throat by the Democratic Party, Mr. Tingles Chris Matthews, or Oprah. I do not care what Oprah thinks I should read, eat or wear - and I sure as shit don't care who she thinks I should vote for.
You all are screwed, because you have done a bang-up job of alienating Clinton voters with exactly the kind of crap you wrote here. Good luck getting him elected with 70% of Clinton supporters turning their backs on a Democratic Party that did it first to them. There is no one issue the Democratic Party stands for that would make me feel as passionately about voting Democrat as I do about voting against The Chosen One.
Most of us absolutely plan to campaign DILIGENTLY for McCain if Obama is the nominee. If the DNC thinks we will all be joining hands and singing Kumbaya, they are delusional. If Obama was winning fair and square, I could take that. What I CANNOT and WILL NOT accept is how he got delegates in Texas, and probably other caucuses. He was given a free pass while Hillary was vilified in the MSM, his supporters have been vile to us and to her, and they are truly crazy if they think we will all be "one unified party".
DFWtoPDX
· 1 year ago
I grew up in Collin County. The only Democrats there that would back McCain before backing Obama are the same racists I moved to Portland to avoid. And you missed one hell of a rally here on Sunday!
ohmercy
· 1 year ago
Fair? Democracy? We don't need no stinkin' fair democracy!
They honestly think the people who say they wo0n't vote for Obama are either racists, bitter old typical white women or "just mad 'cause Hillary is losing." LOL
the reasoning power of... what? my cat Sophie.
Sorry Sophie.
The reason some Clinton supporters won't vote for Obama is because of them and their hate mongering... but don't look to them to take responsibility. After al-l out with the old in with the new. A typical immature and consumerist ideology. The core that has worked for and supported the Democrats are called unnecessary and unneeded and RACIST! talk about an insult... so many of us marched and worked our asses off to give Obama a chance to be where he is. And now they express even more vitriol when some supporters say, OK, fine. then I guess I'll be moving on.
They don't get it. They treat us like enemies and then get even nastier when we eventually accept the invitation. They don't get it. It isn't about Clinton losing. It is about how she is losing and the ugliness of it all.
Anyway, though they try to paint us as racists if we do not vote for Obama I for one did support Obama for a very long time, wrote to him and urged him to run so I will tell you I cannot wait to have a black man in the White House. Just not this black man.
rugbyman2
· 1 year ago
Hello Dawn - I have been trying to tell people that Obama's supporters intimidate, alienate and flat out bully to get what they want. I am from Texas too (dallas county) and had the same experience. I was singled out and asked in front of the entire caucus if I was even allowed in the room b/c I might be a Clinton "paid operative." I had to show my DL# to verify the address in front of everyone.
My mother in Collin county and my sister in a different city in Collin county all experienced intimidation and very unusual tactics of verifying votes.
It does not just end there. I was elected a Clinton delegate to the senatorial convention and the same frustrations followed me there. The credentials committee was pro-Obama and even when they did uphold a Clinton challenge, the Obama campaign lobbied to have the decision challenged on the open floor of the caucus. Given the majority of Obama supporters at the convention, each challenge would have been overturned and Obama would have won every decision - regardless of right or wrong. They even had a girl carrying a sign at the convention that would be held up to inform the crowd (Obama supporters) when to raise their hands and vote. It was despicable. The only thing that saved sanity is that a citizen commandered the microphone and put forth a motion to accept all committee decisions as stated. The Obama people were furious.
My personal expereince at the senatorial convention (I can verify this in writing) was an Obama delegate was seated after the appropriate time and we agreed to let her vote (because every vote should count) even though we did not have too. Her vote created a tie and Clinton lost a delegate on a coin toss. Literally. The delegate was later revealed not to have been a delegate or an approved alternate.
A friend in Mansfield Texas had to call the police to come and be in the room to ensure no one would be intimidated or forced to leave. The irony - you listen to the news and all you heard was how Clinton supporters were lodging complaints. Like we were sore losers - even though she won the state outright when each person only got one vote. We had to complain or we would have been run over by a bus. I would wager a lot of money that many of Obama's delegates are stolen to use a word the POOR JOHN uses.
She will win the popular vote and will be the nominee so all is right with the world for now. Dems know all to well about buyer's remorse and they are feeling it. The super delegates will sort this out. I have to have Hope.
mirth
· 1 year ago
So vote for McCain.
Dawn
· 1 year ago
Plan on it...and getting as many others to as possible.
shanobama
· 1 year ago
Then you are in the same camp as Phylis Shafely, Dawn. McCain voted against the Fair Pay Act, setting the womens movement back at least 30 years. The Supreme Court ruled, as conservatives like, in favor of Corporate power. Women MUST find out if their employer is shorting their pay in no more than 180 days. If they find out they are getting less pay than men after that time, they have no legal recourse.
This is what you advocate when you vote for McCain.
Do you think Hillary has any chance in hell of winning a National election in the future if she hurts this Democratic chance for the presidency in '08? I think it highly unlikely she would ever again be seriously considered by any majority of voters in America if she helps McCain take office.
Why cant she see what every other candidate saw when the numbers were against them? Bwecause some people called her some names? Look, both candidates were beaten and bloodied by this long campaign. No just YOUR candidate. Both of them.
Hillary had a huge lead, in superdelegates, in name recognition, in money raised. Mark Penn lost this election for Hillary. She is responsible for hiring him. All your anger against Obama is utterly misplaced. He won fair and square, and Mark Penn caused Hillary to lose. Thats who you should be venting about. Not a fellow Democratic candidate.
ohmercy
· 1 year ago
Dawn, I know you posted this 6 days ago but maybe you will see it.
Please, do not vote for McCain. Never, under any circumstances. We really do not want this nut in. There was a time he may have been an alternative to a very weak Dem. but that time is long past.
Obama may or may not be weak, I don't know but he has the Democratic establishment behind him and I'm sure he will get council on who to choose for cabinet positions who will council him, inform him and help him catch up to the reality behind the office. It is going to shock him/them when they see the mess left behind, the things we know are bad enough what we don't know has to be much, much worse. I was once a supporter of Obama. Various things brought me to neutrality while I researched both candidates as fully as I could. They both have flaws and both have goodness, they both have strengths and weaknesses.
The hatefulness and ugliness of the ObamaCons is no reason to vote for McCain though yes, it does give one pause. If these are his supporters what is it going to be like trying to do the activist work with them. Will they be bullies in all aspects of their lives? Do they prefer ugliness to co-operation and camaraderie? Will they even show up? I haven't seen any evidence which says they will.
Also Dawn, don't forget what you encounter in places like this, huffbama post and the rest of the so called "progressive" blogs are not typical of all O supporters, just the loudest and most vitriolic. There have been many O supporters who have been just as disgusted with these people as you are they just aren't heard from. They leave because if they mention anything resembling a decent word for clinton they are attacked. (lots of friends have told me some real horror stories.) They have also been disgusted by the media coverage and feel somewhat uneasy about the media coverage, the sexism and misogyny as well as certain elements of the Obama campaign tactics. They get that he isn't perfect and still choose to support him just as we get that Hillary has flaws. You have to take the whole person into account which unfortunately so many O supporters do not. Meaning they do not allow for his humanity. This makes me nervous because if he should win the Presidency the moment he signs a bill or supports a policy they disagree with or who knows what, they will feel betrayed, they will turn on him and attack him with the same venom. The clay feet syndrome.
Please Dawn, McCain is as bad as Bush if not worse.
If you cannot bear to pull that lever for Obama then write Hillary in. You will still be heard but without the burden of having voted McCain into office.
I have no idea what I'm going to do. I always thought I would vote for whoever the nominee was but I confess to being tempted to writing Hillary in. I do believe she would have been the strongest leader. As grown ups we know we won't always agree with everything a President says of does... God knows there have been times I was annoyed with her in this campaign. As grown ups we also know that demonizing another human being is not just destructive to that person but it is destructive to the party and it is destructive to one's self.
Seriously, would you want to be any of these hate-mongers?
mirth
· 1 year ago
Maybe you'll eventually grow up and become informed and then vote for your best interests and those of your country. Until then, knock yourself out.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
Losing Dawn and the most precious votes of those that cannot get over the epic and profound failure of the Clinton campaign do not matter statistically speaking because as much as Obama is the far superior candidate, McCain should carry Texas.
ohmercy
· 1 year ago
or write Hillary in. A preferable option.
cali_dem
· 1 year ago
The "egomania" tag on this tirade is perfect. Good grief, get over your bad self.
troqua
· 1 year ago
I think the most disturbing thing she said today in Boca Raton was the warning that unless Democrats count the votes of Michigan and Florida primary voters, they risk losing them in the fall to the Republicans, who will remind them not to trust the Democrats. I believe that was a subtle threat, and permission to her supporters to turn to McCain unless she gets her way, which is seating of the complete delegations. Her job at this point should be to unite Democrats, like Barack is trying to do, regardless of the outcome here, but no, this horrible human being is planting seeds of insurrection within the party.
Haven't you seen the exit polls? Hillbots are too uneducated to take a hint. Clinton already lost, morons. Monica Lewinsky's ex-boyfriend's wife will not be the Democratic nominee. Sorry for that. That's my Clinton fatigue acting up. ;-)
Nigel Elliott
· 1 year ago
TPM commenter: But will she concede? Asking her to concede is like asking her to tell the truth. LOL
Happy_Housewife
· 1 year ago
Oh dear. What a lot of drama about very little.
Look, Hillary and Barak are basically the same candidate, and both are much better than McCain. So you can get your panties in a twist, kick over the checker board and go pout in the furnace room, or you can be an adult and drop this drivel.
I really, truly, honestly, sincerely, don't care who gets the nomination, as long as that person wins the election. We can't afford a president McCain. End of story.
naschkatzehussein
· 1 year ago
Well,bully for you. Hillary is the most immoral, or is it amoral?, person I have ever seen in American politics. I will not vote for McCain, but I am beginning to think that he would be preferable to Hillary Clinton as would the Republican Party. They don't allow their candidates to behave this way, and I am getting pretty fed up with my new party the Democrats, the legislators, the DNC, and the superdelegates for allowing this to go on so long.
Happy_Housewife
· 1 year ago
If you think Hillary Clinton is "the most immoral, or is it amoral?, person I have ever seen in American politics" you either don't know your American history, or you're letting your emotions get the better of you.
Hillary and Barak have very similar policy platforms. They would both appoint supreme court judges who would be much better than anything McCain would come up with. Those are the facts, but it seems like we aren't interested in facts, just pitching glamour fits.
I really wonder how many of the people in these comment rooms who get people all riled up are just GOP members who are trying to make a stink.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
I think it's amoral.
ohmercy
· 1 year ago
You know this is getting so old it has lost its bite. You all keep saying this just as the neocons before you did... sad to see how easy it is to brainwash you, NOT because you are supporting Obama, he is a worthy candidate, if flawed as all human beings are. No, you have been repeating the neocon meme's for so long I think you are actually believing it. I used to think it was just nasty neocon tactics, a smear campaign to push hate talk to sway people... but I realized you are the ones who were swayed by this crap.
You keep saying this garbage but no one actually cites any credible sources to back up what they say. The sources, when someone actually does post them are never credible. If you research you can find some very old neo con and far right wingnut sites with these exact same accusations, talking points, lies and smears that you now find all leftist sites. Sometimes they are word for word. Now that is just sad. Oh, sometimes there is parroting of the MSM... which is then decryed as corrupt, idiotic, whores when they dare to question or criticize Obama so how can that be taken seriously.
Yeah, I've been wondering how many people on the so called "progressive" blogs are GOP myself. I never thought of hatred as a Progressive value. I'm going back to being a liberal.
BTW. Did you see where HRC is actually ranked as more liberal that BHO? He is in the exact middle- befitting a President really. You have to please everyone.
PeteWa
· 1 year ago
I don't see Hillary and Barak as basically or even marginally the same candidate at this point.
Dave of the Jungle
· 1 year ago
Obama leads McCain in November match: Reuters poll
Obama doesn't have his head buried up Rupert Murdoch's ass crack.
FunMe
· 1 year ago
From being a young republican for Goldwater to marrying a Democrat to being a lawyer for power to sorta being a Democrat to OK, let me be a Democratic Governor's wife to OK I will fake the Democrat if my "hubby" becomes US President, to OK we are out, but hey! I can run as a "Democrat" and win a SENATE seat in New York. They'll think I am a Democrat and liberal (I make sure to walk in the gay parade but heck no! to voting for gay marriage) to ok I am a "Democrat" in the Senate. NOW I have to be a candidate for VP in the Democratic Party to ... losing
She's not a DINO (Democrat In Name Only) ... she is a republiCON who has infiltrated our party and cares only about herself.
Jesushchrist, where are these bots coming from on this thread? The only "Dimocrats" who will vote for McCain are racist morons who think the south should have won the Civil War.
Get over yourselves, and go back to where you belong--the Rethug Party which just loves to keep you in poverty and ignorance.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
LOL
I think John's egging them on now.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
Moi? Actually one of the pro-Hillary blogs (there are only 3, so you can probably narrow down which one), sent people over. Then again, I never object to page views :-)
hf_jai
· 1 year ago
Give us a break, John. We're not as easily fooled as your Obamabots. The influx of people with established avatars is pretty good evidence you've call in all the regulars.
ohmercy
· 1 year ago
The only "Dimocrats" who will vote for McCain are racist morons ... Spioken like a typical Obama Con... the new neocons.
Anyone who doeswn't support Obama is a racist.
Well you know, there are some who are racists certainly but there are many who can't wait to see a black man or woman as President of this country. Just not this black man.
BTW, nice way to reach out and "be nice to Clinton supporters."
That is what Barack ordered isn't it? I'm glad he realizes that he can't really win without all the people his sweet sypporters have alienated. He really should have said something much sooner.
Don't forget most Clinton supporters started off happy as hell with both candidates and were very vocal about it and about their wholehearted willingness to vote for whoever won the primary. There were even a few Obama supporters saying the same thing. I wonder what changed that? When you treat people as enemies you shouldnm't be surprised if they actually become enemies.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Obama has to select Webb to get the Apallachians.
wolfy
· 1 year ago
Just sent this to the DNC at info@demconvention.com, you all may want to send your comments too. I sent this and more to HIllary's website at the suggestions section: Gentleman and Gentlewomen,
with all due respect, I implore you to work quickly and decisively to end this painful and protracted primary race between Senator Clinton and Senator Obama. I began as a Clinton supporter, but I am firmly planted in Senator Obama's camp now and I believe that Senator Clinton's refusal to bow out of this primary race gracefully is damaging our chances to beat Senator McCain to the White House in November. I cannot bear to see us lose the Presidency once again - too too much is at stake. I have always been a fan and supporter of the Clintons, but this primary season has been a painful event to watch. There is far too much at stake to allow Senator Clinton to ignore the greater good and only listen to her inner-ambitions.
Rules are rules, and Michigan and Florida chose to go against those rules and Senator Obama has not questioned the rules and therefore he should not be punished for following the rules. Senator Clinton was coherent of the rules back in December, but when the rules did not begin to play in her favor, she began to endeavor to change them. This is simply wrong. Again, I say, this is simply wrong.
I hope that the Democratic Party leaders will work quickly and swiftly to end this conundrum so that we may get on to the business of taking the White House back in 2009 - it is absolutely critical that we do not let Mr. McCain take office, as peace and prosperity for all will be greatly threatened by his being our leader. Senator Obama has the skills, the balanced disposition, the quiet and calm demeanor, the independent nature, and the worldliness to lead us at this time in our history. Please, please let us fight for him to be our leader.
Respectfully,
me
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
LOL.
OK, that's that.
Thanks for solving it for us.
JennieB
· 1 year ago
I fucking hate her. Can I cuss here? Good. I actually hate her more than Karl Rove. Karl Rove can't destroy the Democratic party, but Hillary can and is. She is beyond repulsive.
Tweety's reporting that McCain may have pow wows this weekend with Bobby Jindal, Charlie Crist and--ta da--Mitt Romney. Fine, they're all losers with issues.
In a way, I like Jim Webb...I think he can learn about social issues he's weak on and can accept Obama's platform. He's intelligent and I don't see him as a pure pol yet, the same way I see Obama. And Webb is no stranger to DC, having been Secy of the Navy under Reagan, before he resigned, so he does have experience in DC, yet also looks less like a DC insider.
OK, let's admit that "perception" is what some people vote for...and sometimes you have to compromise to get what you really want.
Webb has problems, but he brings a lot to the ticket.
1. He can pick up the Appalachians. Just look at that clip I posted. He's one of them.
2. He takes McCain's "military" edge totally off the table.
ivyfree
· 1 year ago
You know, I understand what you're saying, but your hysterical, over the top response isn't helping any. Write and tell anybody you like that she ought to quit. But keep it reasonably dignified. Screeching ZOMG SHE"S HORRIBLE!!!1! really isn't particularly impressive. Writing that it's mathematically impossible for her to gain the nomination? Entirely appropriate. Shrieking and pearl-clutching? Only reflects on you. And it gives Republicans something to point to. She's a determined woman and she's not going to give up easily; she still has supporters and some financial backers (oh yes, I know, you wrote, her campaign is in debt), and she's not going to give up until she's ready. So? The opponent is McCain, remember? There'll be plenty of time to go after McCain- and in the meantime, a little dignity in your responses won't make a bad situation worse.
buddhaplex
· 1 year ago
There is no more time. I'm sorry if you think there is, but by prolonging this until the convention, McCain is virtually assured the Presidency. WTF is wrong with shrieking about it? Clearly, this C...linton isn't listening to reason. She clearly doesn't give a shit about the Democratic party. Screw her. WE need to kick her ass out. NOW.
buddhaplex
· 1 year ago
First of all, Disqus sucks ass. Next, Hillary Clinton is destroying this country. She might as well be McCain's running mate. Sit down, bitch! Let the real leaders lead! Enough already!
syolles
· 1 year ago
I think that the notion that it is personal for the Clintons takes us off track. I think the Clintons are representing DLC interests-- corporate interests, the telcos and the HMOs and the drug companies, the corporate world, and the right-wing Lieberman Jewish gang who have always backed the neo-cons, and the neo-cons themselves. These people have been smearing the Democratic Party and Democratic values for years. So then it is a life or death fight for the Democratic Party (and the country) with all of the bad actors who keep us from any meaningful reform, those who have all of the power now. It really makes more sense that this is what the fight is about, rather than about Hillary's personal ambition. But because it is hidden, and unstated, it is at once more pernicious, and more evil. It is the big lie all over again. The big lie -- WMD are why we invaded Iraq, etc. Never admitting what the truth is -- the simple truth. I'd say that is what is going on. (Comment also posted at booman's.)
syolles
mirth
· 1 year ago
Very well said. While on a superficial level this is (or has become) personal with Hill&Bill, the real fight for them is to continue advancing the blue-tinged version of the Corporate Party.
johnosahon
· 1 year ago
PREACH ON BROTHER PREACH US. TAKE IT TO THE CHURCH.
HILLARY MUST BE THROWN OUT OF THE PARTY.
HILLARY GO BACK TO YOUR PARTY.
I SHALL TRY MY BEST TO GET HER OUT OF THE SENATE WHEN THIS MESS IS OVER.
jr
· 1 year ago
McCain's going to appoint more 40 and 50 something judges who will be on the bench for 3-4 decades and Obama's not able to raise general election funds to stop it. Every day she's in the race is another day that our rights will be destroyed to further the repubs goal of a Corporate States of America
BHBuck
· 1 year ago
"Hillary won't cause the Democratic Party to lose to McCain in November. If McCain wins it will because the party nominates Obama to run against him."
Sheeesh! Go away for a little while, then return to this.
John, you're going to have to get some smarter trolls than this!
2008
· 1 year ago
This criticism is demeaning and too shrill, which DOES smack of sexism. This is the kind of cheap, bitchy stuff that gets people behind the underdog. Say what you like, but it is AMAZING that a woman has come this far, especially when her husband got humiliated and impeached... Save this attack dog crap for the Repubs!! I concede that Clinton is not who I am voting for, simply because the Clintons have become too friendly with the Bushes. But, please save the vitriol for people who have earned it FAR MORE: Bush, Cheney, McCain, and the whole GOP gang! Even Nancy Pelosi deserves a major upbraiding for not allowing so much as one vote on impeaching the worst, most devious "Commander-in-Chief" in American History, bar none. Save the HATE FOR THE GOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't let Clinton get to you... there's no need to be shrill. She is a Democrat and with the absence of Sen. Kennedy impending, WE NEED EVERY DEM WE HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AngelaChanning
· 1 year ago
John, you have just insulted horrible human beings everywhere. LOL.
kenosharick
· 1 year ago
If you are so sure he will win, why the HELL are you sooooo scared to let everyone vote? Including Florida and Mich? Is it because she has gotton more votes than him? Or that poll after poll shows that there is NO WAY Obama can beat mccain? New state polling show him losing North Carolina, Ark, WV, Ohio, and Florida- while Hillary would carry every one.
shell
· 1 year ago
2 points:
1. You said , "... she has caused a civil war in the Netroots" Maybe that was part of the plan. How else could the netroots have been brought down? After all, Hillary WAS, and still is, to me ... a Republican. Scaife, Fox ... she was forced to show her true colors. Shame on the part of the Netroots to fall for it.
2. I disagree with one thing you said. That she FORCED certain organizations to keep supporting her. ("How she has forced EMILY's List and AFSCME and the AFT to waste their money because of her.") They make their own decisions. Except for EMILY'S List, I don't believe any of these organizations are for women only. And, in all, honesty, EMILY's List has men in it, too (as donors). These groups should be ashamed of themselves. They CHOOSE to keep this charade running. And any other candidate who loses, because of not having campaign money -- should put blame where blame is due.
Living in California, I can assure you I get very mad at hearing that "average Americans" are with Hillary. Since when was West Virginia the heart of the U.S.? Far as I can see, her only true base consists of the elderly and uneducated.
Jimbo62
· 1 year ago
Amen, brother John. The Clinton's narcissism has blinded them to the fact that they have turned supporters into haters. I too used to cover for the Clintons, and said that I would vote for her if she got the nomination. But after watching her throughout this primary, I have lost all respect for her and Bill. I work at a University in Michigan and have observed students who absolutely hate her as well. When she began mocking Obama for his vision and hope, she drove away this new group of voters who are taking over the democratic party......hooray........the young people of today, for the most part, are much more open to taking chances, trying new things, change, voting for an African American and stopping these damn wars. I'm excited by the huge groundswell of support from your people. When Obama and Edwards visited our normally conservative town of Grand Rapids, the buzz around campus and even throughout the state was amazing. If we can harness that energy and increase voter registration and turn out the vote, we will take this country back from the corrupt, selfish repugs that have hijacked it from us. Peace..........
ChicagoKid
· 1 year ago
SHRILLARY Clinton, the Ralph Nader of 2008!!!
mar67ina
· 1 year ago
Hillary is indeed a disgusting human being. I hope she is booted from the senate as well as any political future.
doandme
· 1 year ago
John, you are a big crybaby. Hillary is the one to beat McShame. Obama won't be able to do it. So SHUTUP BABY
KansasModerate
· 1 year ago
Hillary won't cause the Democratic Party to lose to McCain in November. If McCain wins it will because the party nominates Obama to run against him.
The party's far left wing can't maintain the fraud forever. Some time betwen now and November 4 voters will find out why George Soros, DailyKos, John Aravosis, David Brock, Arianna Huffington, et al, got behind Obama before the bandwagon started picking up gullible liberals and centrists. McCain's winning margin will make the Nixon-McGovern race look like a bailbiter.
Dave of the Jungle
· 1 year ago
Obama leads McCain in November match: Reuters poll
You really think Hillary's going to win without the African-American vote?
JakeMPLS
· 1 year ago
In recent months I have been disappointed that Americablog only discusses Sen. Clinton's negatives. All the negative coverage has turned me off to a website, that until now I have really respected. At times I have thought of not reading posts until after the primaries. Knowing that this site a strong preference for Obama, however, has allowed me to get over the negativity, taking it with a grain of salt. However, the title of this post is so offensive that Americablog should be ashamed of itself. Calling Hillary a horrible human being is inexcusable. You may disagree with how she and her husband and staff are proceeding, but it does not constitute horrible person. The fact that you can call anyone, and I mean anyone, a horrible human makes me ashamed that I ever read this blog. As intelligent, progressive thinkers, you should at a minimum have a little tact in your criticism. This post puts you in the same class as Bill O'Reilly and your site in line with Fox News. I will not read Americablog in the future, as I do not want to be likened to those who have so little regard for others, no matter how strongly you disagree with them.
shell
· 1 year ago
JakeMPLS --
How ironic that you are mad -- MAD, I tell you! -- at AmericaBlog ("This post puts you in the same class as Bill O'Reilly and your site in line with Fox News"), yet you have no problem with the entire Clinton campaign LIVING on Fox.
Are you THAT ill-informed, or are you just stupid?
mar67ina
· 1 year ago
I reiterate that she IS a horrible human being. She is going against the grain of everything she purportedly stands for. She is a shape shifter who will be whoever she thinks she should be to get votes for a particular day. She cares about nothing but herself and her own self aggrandizement. She has lost all credibilty for me and does not represent any self-respecting woman.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
I think vwcat has it figured. It's the dismantling of the current power structure that is most frightening to Clinton supporters. It's the end of the gravy train for a whole lot of "hangers on".
FunMe
· 1 year ago
Busboy is that you? You are becoming likable!
Busboy
· 1 year ago
Sorry, I know I'll disappoint you down the road. ut, thanks for today...
Busboy
· 1 year ago
Dave, hot gravatar! Thanks....
Viceroy
· 1 year ago
John: You are so right about the Clintons - some of us have been saying exactly the same things while most of those who post here, including you, were cheering them on as America's royal family. But two things: what is being revealed is that Obama is not going to be able to carry the white working class and rural vote, period - end of story, and therefore he will not win, no matter how many African Americans,white wine drinking liberals, and overprivileged college kids (who are pretty much his coaltion now) come out, 2) criticiizing West Virginians and denigrating them because they happen to have a different point of view that you is unAmerican, fascist, and worse of all, a kind of elitism by a group of people who have no claims at all of being superior in any way - it is also a confirmation of the growing feeling among many Americans that Obama and his supporters are out-of-touch with average Americans. So score one for being right that Clintons are fundamentally evil, but deduct one for being so ideologically driven as to not to see that Obama and company are no better at all. It takes more to be a successful president than a pretty face able to spew forth preprogramed ear-candy. Obama has no more to do with most of us than that mulitmillionaire gigolo the Democrats nominated last time, and he is going to lose by a landslide.
mf_roe
· 1 year ago
Brilliant! Now who do you suggest is the one to support? You choose between available options not fantasies.
Gary SF
· 1 year ago
I so agree with this post. Except for 'horrible human being' doesn't begin to capture how I NOW feel about the Clintons.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
"Looks like the chickins is comin home to roost"; Jeremiah Wright......
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
"and the Catholic Church is the Great Whore! oh, sorry if that offends any of you Catholic heathens." the very large and white Pastor John Hagee
Busboy
· 1 year ago
It's OK, tls. We hear it every day. We still care for the the widows and orphans. We still support the community and pray for the dead. Buried one of my friends today. Army Ranger, decorated, supporter of the Vietnamese community, tireless worker to elevate the lives of less fortunate people in the community. Kiss my ass.
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
ain't you something!
bend over and kiss your own ass.
mirth
· 1 year ago
Obama supporters have no obligation or duty to "win over" or "bring over" Hillary supporters. If the Delusional Ones cannot study the issues and determine the better candidate, then f'k 'em. If that means McCain gives us 4 more years of shame and degradation, then obviously that's what this country needs before it is ready to act in its own best interests.
We're not here to woo you. Get on the bus or get outta the way.
mf_roe
· 1 year ago
Totally on the mark, if we have to beg voters to save their asses maybe they aren't worth saving.
mirth
· 1 year ago
We need to stop this meme in its tracks, mf-roe.
We can help to educate and empower, but the notion that we need to woo Clinton's supporters, that we need to be "nice" to them to get their votes for Obama, is really the most ridiculous argument.
It will take the majority of the citizenry to grab the reins away from the Neos of both red and blue persuasions (and electing Obama is just the beginning of the work ahead), and if the majority can't smarten up and act for the good of all, then we as a whole are doomed and we deserve it.
SINGING_TROLL
· 1 year ago
You are The Sage tonight, girl.
mf_roe
· 1 year ago
Reduced to the basics, if you inform yourself of the facts and use logic in making your choice you will vote for what is best for you. If you need someone to explain it to you maybe you should just not vote. Obama is much more of a Dem than Clinton ever was, anyone that doesn't understand that is unreachable with logic. Clinton voters who say they will vote McCain over Obama defy any definition of Democrat that I know.
SINGING_TROLL
· 1 year ago
Obama supporters have no obligation or duty to "win over" or "bring over" Hillary supporters. If the Delusional Ones cannot study the issues and determine the better candidate, then f'k 'em. If that means McCain gives us 4 more years of shame and degradation, then obviously that's what this country needs before it is ready to act in its own best interests." --mirth
F'n A right, mirth! Well said!
Topher
· 1 year ago
That sure is change I can believe in, Mirth.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
I'm starting to feel sorry for Hillary. Trying to campaign with ol' Bill hanging around is like trying to give a valedictorian address with a half ounce booger on your nose. What will become of their sacred marriage after November? Will they file for an uncivil union and retain the tax writeoffs?
All Comments
WILL YOU STAY HOME IF SHE IS THE VP NOMINEE, JOHN?
John, you have sacrificed gay rights on the altar of a candidate who solicits the support of homophobic ministers. How you do this is good faith is beyond my comprehension. Perhaps all the advertisement revenue from certain Democratic organizations requires you to attack Hillary Clinton, the one candidate who does view LGBT rights and human rights. And too bad your advocacy for the candidate who could care less about gay rights has failed: the LGBT community supports Clinton over Obama 67-33.
Mindless party unity is not very becoming. And your misogyny renders you a brute. Thank you for selling out yourself and the movement to Barack Obama. You have just relegated yourself to the margins of irrelevancy.
How does it feel to support a candidate who coquets with homophobia for electoral gain? How does it feel to lack any true conviction? You are a joke.
but in the end it won't matter, because obama is yet another in a line of stevensonian democratic losers who have no ability to connect with voters (and no,undemocratic "caucuses" have nothing to do with the way general elections work).
all that these short-term opportunists are doing is limbaugh's dirty work for him by doing everything possible to assure mccain's victory in the fall instead clinton's, who's the only true supporter of the gay community running for the democratic nomination.
obama is a loser and that is why the republicans and neoconservatives were singing his praises until he became the "presumptive" nominee in the media echo chamber. it's really sad to see people who claim to support the gay community play into the hands of the gop by allowing themselves to be used as shills for obama.
All my homo friends are for Obama and don't want to be pandered to by a Clinton who'll jack us off under the table while signing our rights to marry away and then run again in 4 years proud of the discrimination to gin up votes in the south.
Barack mentions gay people ALL the time, btw, and that gets a lot of respect.....especially since Clinton hasn't uttered the word lesbian in like 20 years.
ummmmmm this is not a hoookup site fireblazes, just thought id let you know..... LOL
change it for you. joe
John, whether you like it or not, Obama does not have a lock on the nomination. This is not tearing the Democratic party apart. If anything, what's tearing the party apart is hysterical overreactions like this post.
I can't help but think this situation is incredibly similar to Florida in 2004, when all the Republicans were saying Bush won and Gore should just drop out of the race.
Frankly, I think the risk of damage to the party comes from the Obamaites covering their ears shouting "Shut up, shut up, shut up" more than anything else.
I'll happily vote for Obama and I'll happily vote for Clinton, my "insanity" notwithstanding.
She makes me want to puke. When she told the story about poor people skipping meals so her campaign can continue is sickening. The Clintons will NEVER stop begging other people for money. They are parasites.
Now, go ahead with the "I don't hate her because she's a woman! I hate her because she's a bitch!" and "You bitchez are always looking for misogyny" arguments. I haven't had a chance to play Feminist Bingo for about 10 minutes or so.
has nothing to do with her being a woman, can the sexist crap. Criticize
her policies, record, and pertinent behavior without ONCE using a sexist
stereotype. Can you do it? Can you write a post that does that?
And look at all this straw you're wading around in! I don't know about
loathing men. The men in my life, I love very much. Men in politics, I
judge on their records. Love John Edwards. Hate George Bush. Both men.
Never said anything about their looks, penis size, sound of their laughter,
castrating tendencies (oh wait, that's only about women), their bitchiness
(oh wait, that's only about women, too!), etc. See how easy it is?
And nice "Look! Over there! Racism! So I don't have to answer to my own
sexism, because someone else did something bad, too!"
Really. It's predictable, and tiresome.
Tinfoil Hattie
Cartoon is apropos.
Eating shit kills brain cells.
she's at her absolute worst when giving a speech.
it's a droning, yelling monotone bore.
That's what's wrong with her.
Actually, I was very disgusted with you last year for your rabid support of Hillary. Couldn't figure out where you were coming from. Bill has charisma to spare, but he sure isn't sharing it with his wife. Unfortunately, even without opening her mouth, she is a loathsome character. Hard to be sure if she makes its worse by talking. Yeah, I supported her too, but that was way back around 1992, 93 when the Republicans did that hatchet job on her healthcare plan. But the more I saw of her, the more I found I couldn't stand her.
I would love to see a woman behind the desk in the Oval Office, but Hillary is not that woman. She is self serving and if she puts women in positions of power, she won't make the necessary changes to provide lasting benefits after her terms in office rather, like Pelosi, she is creating a legacy that will insure many, many more years of discrimination and hatred against women in power. Hillary is doing women no favors with her behavior, rather giving more fuel to the misathropes, missogynists and Neanderthals.
I know what might be driving them now. There have been some reports on how Obama has taken over and is consolidating the party into his party. And he is purging some of the Clinton structures put in place over 20 years and replacing them with his own.
It could be that the Clintons are terrified if they leave that Obama will purge everything about them out.
He is building a new democratic party that repudiates the dlc and clintonism. That has to terrify them. This is why they are going crazy.
Obama has embraced the 50 state strategy and partnered with the dnc. Open Left had a post last week about how Obama is taking over many aspects of the party.
It seems Obama wants to shut out people like Podesta and Clinton sympatizers and their little groups and rebuild it from the mess the Clintons left it in and under their iron grip.
The party is moving away from the Clintons and with the new day offered by Obama. A renewed party reinvigorated. This has to terrify the Clintons and their little minions.
she just said she would fight like mad for the democratic nominee. she also correctly noted that the primary has energized the party. how is that a bad thing? obama made a mistake avoiding the free press coverage in WV, coverage that would not have been possible without hillary.
hillary's a politician. obama is a better politician. everyone knows he is the nominee. we don't need the hysteria.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10315...
Some people just can't envision a campaign without mud.
lemme play out that sort of thinking:
dems don't win oklahoma, and they still win the WH.
neither Clinton nor Obama will win oklahoma,
ergo, Obama wins in November.... ;-)
and oklahoma has more electoral votes than WV.
I guess the DINOs really are crazy people.
Maybe this will work:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lancashire/2383225...
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10316...
Geez, what a sacrifice. Sigh, only 8 more months of this fucktard....
--JOHN ARAVOSIS
God that makes me hot.
lol
:)
that little stat says alot about WV voters
I was banned several times for trying, sometimes hysterically, to point out what an absolute shit she is.
Times change .....
follow the example the obama campaign and tone down the hysteria just a wee bit.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/13/20401/9...
Delusional? Yes. Taking her supporters on a fool's errand? Yes.
Begging for donations? Pathetic.
Only fools will contribute to this multi-millionaires campaign, that is going
nowhere.
You really did used stick up for her. I remember because It caused me to boycott you. I couldn't believe you were being so blind. The boycott didn't last that long. I got over myself. Plus, I love this blog too much. I don't even watch TV news anymore. I rely on you and 8 other blogs to get my daily news and my quality of life has increased 1000% Don't let her stress you John. It's over. It's not worth it.
LOL! That's a good one!
I'm not so very fond of this post, but I like the ending! I guess we ALL lose except him!
obama is leading hilary by 20 points in two polls released in oregon.
and john this post was HILARYRIOUS but sad.
let's look at the best he has done.
Idaho 4 Electoral Votes
Obama 79%
Clinton 17%
Obama +62%
Hawaii 4 Electoral Votes
Obama 76%
Clinton 24%
Obama +52%
Alaska 3 Electoral Votes
Obama 75%
Clinton 25%
Obama +50%
Washington 11 Electoral Votes
Obama 68%
Clinton 31%
Obama +37%
Georgia 15 Electoral Votes (Competitive with Bob Barr)
Obama 67%
Clinton 31%
Obama +36%
Colorado 9 Electoral Votes
Obama 67%
Clinton 32%
Obama +35%
Minnesota 10 Electoral Votes
Obama 66%
Clinton 32%
Obama +34%
http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?s...
Which one of these states does West Virginia negate:
Kansas - Obama won by 42%
Colorado - 34%
Minnesota - 34%
Georgia - 35%
Virginia - 28%
Idaho - 62%
North Carolina - 14%
Mississippi - 25%
Maryland - 25%
Wyoming - 24%
Vermont - 21%
Wisconsin - 17%
Hawaii - 52%
Washington D.C. - 52% **
Louisiana - 22%
Nebraska - 35%
Illinois - 32%
Alabama - 14%
Utah - 18%
North Dakota - 25%
Alaska - 51%
South Carolina - 29%
States Clinton won by 14% or more:
Oklahoma - 24%
Arkansas - 44%
Massachusetts - 16%
New York - 17%
Rhode Island - 18%
And Terry kept saying that these floor fights were a good thing ... really? Whose party are you and Hillary working for if you think it's a good thing.
She keeps reporting history of how no Dem has won the white house w/o winning WV ... well no Democrat has won the white house when it has gone to a floor fight EITHER!
Hillary is a menace to Democratic society. The Clinton's ego trumps everything.
Voters will vote for the undead McCain just to avoid hearing her voice for four years.
but not quite.
he is so buckin' for vp.
please please please let it be Huckabee.
By Steven Thomma and William Douglas | McClatchy Newspapers
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/36952.html
---snip---
Turnout in West Virginia appeared average, according to Sarah Bailey, West Virginia's deputy secretary of state. That would be a letdown from the surge of voting in earlier states, a reflection perhaps of the fact that Obama didn't compete heavily in the state or that voters sensed that the four-month campaign was nearing a conclusion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlBuPi5phe8&feat...
Queen of Snots
she isn't worth it.
If Sam Nunn is VP, does that mean Obama will break his promises on DADT?
I'm no fan of Hillary Clinton, but this shrill hysteria from this site makes no sense. If you want to beat John McCain, don't go after Hillary Clinton - it just alienates her supporters - who are needed in the general election.
We've got baggage and the wagons are rolling.
Onward to November!
They both just need to go away.
And while we watch this go on, we should remember that at this point in 2004, Kerry had raised $100,000,000 for the summer season. That is exactly what we should be doing instead of gagging on the Clintons' subtle race baiting. This must stop.
They love the drama. It makes better TV. And that's all they're really about. MSNBC showed a good bit of Obama's speech today in Missouri. When he was done, they cut back to Chris Matthews, who then shat on Obama's speech, calling it a dull "seance". Actually, the crowd seemed quiet because they appeared to be listening to his details. Apparently, if it isn't full of screaming cheers, it is not "good TV", and therefore, it isn't an "effective" speech.
Hillary is crazy, she is too delusional to function.
The Super-delegates and the rest of the Democratic party even Hillary supporters have to be adults, there are real issues to deal with, we cannot afford to indulge the Clinton's
Read the full article at:
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=E3B...
Obama had more to do with those three elections than Hillary, who wasn't even around.
Obama campaigned with the guy who won in Illinois and was linked to the guy who won in Lousisiana by his opponent.
As far as I know, Hillary was just trying to keep tabs on Bubba while all this was going on.
think so.
Your comments in this email are laughable. "The guy" who won in Louisiana
did so because he ran an ad distancing himself from Obama. He's a
conservative Democrat, that's why he won in a Republican district. And,
Obama couldn't be seen anywhere near him or it would have cost him the
election.
As for your insulting and moronic comments about Sen. Clinton or "Bubba,"
they don't even deserve a response beyond this:
DO NOT WRITE TO ME AGAIN.
Especially since they've got their own resident go-to-bigot in Pat Buchanan.
Hillary is NOT going away! Get over it, deal with it, suck it up, and stop your pathetic whining!
Mario
What part of "It's over, you lost Hilary" does this woman NOT UNDERSTAND?
"ohn: You are so right about the Clintons - some of us have been saying exactly the same things while most of those who post here, including you, were cheering them on as America's royal family. But two things: what is being revealed is that Obama is not going to be able to carry the white working class and rural vote, period - end of story, and therefore he will not win, no matter how many African Americans,white wine drinking liberals, and overprivileged college kids (who are pretty much his coaltion now) come out, 2) criticiizing West Virginians and denigrating them because they happen to have a different point of view that you is unAmerican, fascist, and worse of all, a kind of elitism by a group of people who have no claims at all of being superior in any way - it is also a confirmation of the growing feeling among many Americans that Obama and his supporters are out-of-touch with average Americans. So score one for being right that Clintons are fundamentally evil, but deduct one for being so ideologically driven as to not to see that Obama and company are no better at all. It takes more to be a successful president than a pretty face able to spew forth preprogramed ear-candy. Obama has no more to do with most of us than that mulitmillionaire gigolo the Democrats nominated last time, and he is going to lose by a landslide.
"
And yet "somehow" Obama has gotten more votes and carried more states than Clinton. Quit drinkin the koolaids, the reality is that come election time, Clinton isn't going to be carrying WV either. The truth is that Obama will carry all the traditional blue states, just like most other Dem candidates, and the really important bit is that he can compete in states that Clinton doesn't stand a chance. Clinton has won pretty much just in states that are true-blue anyway, or where Dems don't stand much of a chance no matter who is running.
Also, not to point out the obvious, but most of the population of this country lives in areas that Obama will have very little trouble winning versus McCain. There's a reason California has 300 something delegates and WV has like 30, they are nowhere near as important in terms of the election (Despite all the plattitudes about every vote counting, it's kind of obvious our system is rigged towards the large population states deciding POTUS). The bottom line is that most of the population center states that Clinton has one will more than likely go to Obama. Most people I know who voted for Clinton voted for her because they liked her, not because they disliked him.
Time to stop propagating the "Clinton myth" of greater electability. The MSM has been singing it lately because it's the only thing that keeps the boobs tied to the tubes so to speak. Bottom line, Clinton lost. If she is "more electable" then logic dictates she would have, gasp, won. It takes more than the "Right" skin color to win an election. Clinton has run a piss-poor campaign, made incredibly dumb decisions at every turn, shown she can take the second biggest warchest ever compiled and not only blow it, but go into debt! What part of this, except for the theoretical parts people like you still cling to, make her the better candidate?
It is way past time for her to get out of there and leave sometime for fundraising for all the Democratic offices.
You have come completely unglued. You need to stop making a fool of yourself. Really. Get a grip.
Do not let the door hit you, you miserable shit.
My wife gets upset when I say "I HATE Hillary Clinton". And I know my dear sweet mother in her grave down in Alabama, who taught me to NEVER say you hated someone, that was a sin, is spinning in her grave at how often I use the phrase.
It is hard to find better words than "loathe" and "hate", however, to describe the anger any rational person, especially a Democrat, should have at her and Bill, who have proven to be blindly self-serving self-centered power hungry politicians.
And I have had enough of those in the past few decades to suffice for now, thanks very much.
.
Me , myself and I see no problem with her continuing on. I think for the remaining states, it's a must.
I like both candidates so I see it straight down the middle.I will support which ever candidate wins the nomination.
I also believe she should be the choice for VP, simply because Sen Obama will need the people who voted for her.
The way you wrote yer post shows yer disdain for her. I'm sure that will feed the rabid Obama supporters all the more.
I dislike both supporters who relentlesly bash each other. I don't see how they can help win in Nov. In short, yer screwin up the party. Try saying something unifying.
That ain't no way to win an election. We'll NEED those VOTERS.
Wondering about Bill Clinton? 20 million new jobs, 5.4 trillion dollar deficit. yeah, he sucked.
With her speech in WV, Clinton clarified her position in regard to the rules of the Party. Before and after the primary, Clinton and her surrogates, went all the way in what should be rightfully called a disregard of the internal rule of law of the party. Basically claiming that the rules must be changed, that the millions of voters who have already voted don’t count, and that the elected pledged delegates don’t count either.
What seems to only count for Clinton is the popular vote of some but not all contests (after all many caucus states don’t divulge their numbers) and the superdelegates. This is because those are the two only metrics that she can hope to change in her favor.
While it is true that Clinton and her surrogates have stopped the direct attacks on Obama, they have not stopped (and actually increased) their attacks on the Party’s rules and regulations as well as the will of the majority of its voters thus far.
The Clintons and their surrogates keep moving the goalpost as they see fit and they must have a lot of clout within the upper echelons of the party since no one (where are you Howard Dean?) is telling them they should stop their extralegal attacks on the Party’s rules and regulations.
On Meet the Press last Sunday, talking about the FL and MI delegations, Terry McAuliffe said that "the rule is 50 percent" and that he would be content with 50% of the delegations from those states seated. Now, two days later, they want 100% of the delegates seated as is, even though Clinton herself said back in December, that these primaries "will count for nothing".
Their rationale is that we need 50 states in November but they don’t seem to care about the fact that they might end up with 25 states if they keep pushing their unorthodox efforts and drive away a large chunk of Obama supporters in the process.
Since there is no logical explanation to Clinton’s refusal to play by the rules, the only possible explanation is that what we are witnessing is a pure and simple coup attempt by the Clintons and their surrogates. Now that they cannot win by the rules that they themselves have helped to lay out and that they have accepted at the beginning of the process, they feel it’s ok for them to demand that the rules be changed as they see fit in order to make the math work in their favor.
They now claim that they could win the popular vote but what they are not saying is that they are only referring to those states that hold primaries. Clinton knows very well that some caucus states don't release their popular votes results so, while with one hand she acts as the champion of democratic voters by demanding that FL and MI be seated, on the other hand she is openly trying to disenfranchise the voters of those states where caucuses are held.
Clinton has already passed the point of no return by openly declaring that the number of delegates needed to win the nomination (2,025) is null and void and that the new number should be 2,209. By doing so, she has done great damage to the integrity of the primary process. Clinton and her surrogates have clearly espoused the belief that the end justifies the means and they will not stop their attempts to win the nomination at all costs.
And so we find ourselves in this Orwellian land of double speak where Clinton pretends to be the champion of democracy and the popular vote while she’s openly and directly undermining the democratic process since her only path to the nomination is for the superdelegates to overturn the the will of the pledged delegates.
Clinton has taken a very dangerous route because if she believes that the Obama supporters will sit idly by and let her destroy the integrity of the electoral process of the Democratic party she’s highly mistaken. This was supposed to be the year of the Democrats, the year when the people throw out the Rupublicans because of all their failed policies. Instead, because of the thirst for power of one person, we are more and more likely to witness a civil war within the Party that will cripple it for years to come.
Way to go Mrs. and Mr. Clinton.
http://politicjock.blogspot.com/
But I think you folks got the jist of what I was trying to say.
Have a great day folks.
Well I guess if you think allowing an election with one candidate on the ballot is valid and Democratic then you also have to conclude that Saddam was a real President and not a Dictator.
Another lie. There were FOUR candidates on the Michigan Democratic ballot: Clinton, Dodd, Kucinich and Gravel. There was also a fifth choice of uncommitted. Surrogates of Obama paid for ads to get people to vote for the fifth choice. Obama and Edwards both knew they couldn't beat Clinton in an early primary while they were focused on Iowa. But they knew that if they could put their votes together as uncommitted, so that she received less than 50% of the vote, it would be reported as a defeat by the media.
It was also Obama supporters in the Michigan legislature who blocked a re-vote. Just one more case of Barrack saying one thing, and then having his minions do the exact opposite.
Both candidates have done this, not just one.
I was a delegate to the 1980 Democratic convention when Ted Kennedy behaved so badly that it was embarrassing: he had to be dragged to the podium kicking and screaming after he lost to Carter and then wouldn't even shake hands with a sitting president while on national television. Now THAT had an impact in the general election.
We have six months to make this happen and we're in a strong position to increase our majority in both houses of Congress. So get a grip; stop with the hysterics. After June 3, when the majority of the Super Ds declare their support the money will begin to flow toward the down stream races and we'll still have five months before the general election.
So take a breath or you'll bust a vein.
As a Republican, I'm tempted to say "It's about time, but welcome to reality." We were right about them; there was never any doubt of that.
However, your reasons fall pretty far short of reason. Here's the clue:
Pretty clear indication that your emotions are doing your thinking for you. That's why you couldn't see what sort of person she was in the first place. And that's why you think she's such a bad person now -- not because you actually see how bad she is, but because now she's the one preventing you from getting your way.
I'm very sorry, but as an honest Republican, I'm not pleased to have that sort of support for my point of view. Sure, you're saying that about the Clintons now, but as soon as some other Messenger of Evil comes along and gives you what you want (you know, someone like a thoroughly dishonest, closet neo-Marxist pretending to be a centrist and offering "hope" and "change"), you'll be defending them the way you did the Clintons. Honestly, I'd much rather you calmed down and decided to make your decisions based on facts and consistent reasoning, even if at first your reasons led you to oppose my point of view; I have a much better chance of convincing an honest opponent than I have of swaying the emotions of a spoiled, selfish child.
The math also says Obama can't win. Think he should drop out, too?
Just wondering.
The fault for Hillary Clinton's campaign lies with Hillary Clinton. She ran an arrogant, front-runner strategy directed by some of the most inept losers to ever advise a presidential contender. Who hired Mark Penn? Howard Wolfson? Terry McAulliffe? She did. You want an idea of how her administration would function? Just look at her campaign. Broke, battered, directionless. By what measure would you expect her presidency to be any different?
If you're foolish enough to try to punish the most gifted politician to emerge on the American landscape in a generation, by all means cast your vote for John McCain. You'll get what you deserve. The rest of us are moving on and leaving the cult of HIllary behind.
hilary has done a fantastic job bringing real progressive issues to the table, unlike BHO's empty stevenson-style rhetoric - and she is able to connect with real people unlike the so-called "creative class" that - along with blacks voting 9:1 along racial lines for their man - constitutes the sum total of BHO's support.
personally i want to see a floor fight at the convention and the party reclaimed from the absurd upper-middle-income "progressives" who seem to hate poor people (provided they are white) and working-class voters. the republicans already do a good enough job at that, we don't need a bunch of pampered, wealthy obamabots banging on about how unruly the working classes are.
The issue here is that the only possible scenario where Clinton could win would mean the destruction of the Democratic Party. If you think a convention floor fight where super delegates unite to deny the will of the voters by ignoring the overwhelming advantage Obama has in states, popular votes and delegates will not rip the entire party asunder, you're mistaken. The millions of new voters brought into this process by the fresh promise of Obama would be turned off for a very long time while minority voters would stay home in droves. It would, in short, be a disaster and ensure the election of John McCain.
She not only beat BHO last night SHE OBLITERATED HIM!!!
He didn't win California *
*He didn't win New York *
*He didn't win Texas *
*He didn't win Florida *
*He didn't win Pennsylvania *
*He didn't win Massachusetts *
*He didn't win Ohio *
*He didn't win Michigan *
*He didn't win Catholic voters *
*He didn't win Reagan Democrats *
*He didn't win women voters *
*He didn't win white voters *
*He didn't win Jewish voters *
*He didn't win the Latino voters *
*He didn't win the Asian voters *
*He didn't win the working class voters
**Obama's BLACK: that's what Hillary has left. It's no surprise to the rest of us.
BTW, regarding California, have you not seen the latest poll that said if the primary there were to be held again, Obama would beat Clinton 49%-43%? (Link: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/05/would-ob...)
Democrats could run a ham sandwich in New York and Massachusetts and it would still win the GE.
Obama's name wasn't on the ballot in Michigan and even then, Hillary only got 55% of the vote. I don't know why more people don't bring that up. Her only opponents were Kucinich and Gravel and "uncommitted" and she still only got 55%. That doesn't say a lot about the depth of her support in Michigan.
Obama lost Ohio and Pennsylvania by under 10%, once all the votes were counted.
He lost the Texas primary by just a few points and won the caucus.
Obliterating Obama in WV is the best it's going to get for Hillary Clinton.
I don't even hate her. I wish her well and at one time considered voting for her - even sent money to her campaign, That was before she took the low road. I'm sad for her more than anything else, but I know now that I definitely don't want her for my President.
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real Democrats know Obama is a fraud. we will either fight to the last vote. including florida and michigan and if we lose and the fraud becomes the nominee we WILL vote for mcCain to stop the monsters michelle and barry from taking over. Not a threat, John - a promise. It is obama that is the poison.
REZKO AYRES WRIGHT OH MY!!! REZKO AYRES WRIGHT OH MY!! As a LOYAL Democrat and a LOYAL American i will be part of the insurrection against the obama hordes in 2008!!! whoo hoo!!!
You gotta be a ringer. You're parroting Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, et.al. If you're a Democrat, Donald Rumsfeld was a great secretary of defense.
Clinton does not have more votes than Obama. She has fewer victories, fewer delegates and fewer superdelegates. Put down your Kool-Aid and face the facts. She can do whatever the heck she wants. So can you. But stop acting like you're in the majority, man. The Clintons are the face of yesterday's Democratic Party. Obama is the future. Wail all you want, but facts are facts.
Commenting with your back to the mirror, I see. This screed is just embarrassing. Who the hell are you to be telling anyone to get out of the race? As for the Clintons not giving a damn about the Democratic Party, what planet are you living on? The Clintons have done more for the Democratic Party and the people of the U.S. than you, me, and everyone else in our lifetimes combined.
I've been reading your stuff for a while, and it seems to me that, like Markos Moulitsas, your natural place is with the Libertarian Party. There's only one problem: the Libertarians are an outsider party that won't be holding the reins of political power in this country any time in the foreseeable future. You want to be on a winning side, so you choose the Republicans. But then the Republicans become overrun with warmongers and religious dogmatics--both anathema to the Libertarian mentality--so you switch to the Democrats and attempt to affect a hostile takeover with your own version of George W. Bush--slickly marketed, no accomplishments in public life to speak of, and no interest in anything beyond aggrandizing his own ego. The Democrats are FDR's party--the party of working people, not pusillanimous egocentric Randites--and the Clintons are true to us. Go away yourself.
Lost the house, Senate and governorships.
Red State Dems tremble at the thought of Hillary at the top of the ticket.
Clintons used the Democratic party as a vehicle to gain power, that is all.
Sen. Obama; just as you it seems Mr. Aravosis, is clueless and at heart couldn't care less about the people. Obama cares about Obama and no matter all your hatred against HRC, and all your frustrations for supporting such a weak candidate as Mr. Obama; he will not be elected US President because he is unfit, unprepared and unelectable. That much is clear to the majority of the people that will (and they will) determine the election. Take that to the bank Mr. Aravosis, despite all your irrational and pitful writings.
You are a sore loser Mr. Aravosis and all our insults will never compensate for the fatal flaws and failings of Sen. Obama as a presidential candidate. It is time for you to fall out of love; your infatuation is killing your senses.
The. Clintons. Don't. Forfeit.
Ever.
She. Can't. Win.
Why in God's name do you think Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and the rest of those nitwits are working so hard to keep her in the race? The GOP wants her this fall. The baggage she brings to the race --starting with the fact that she has the highest unfavorable rating among presidential candidates in many, many years-- will dwarf the skeletons in Obama's closet including the Rev. Wright. All this malarkey about how she's already been vetted? Please. Wait until the 527's start sniffing around how and where the $108 million she and Bill have earned really came from or they start checking on which foreign nationals have given the most to the Clinton Library? This will make Whitewater/Filegate/Travelgate/health care debacle issues look like patty cake.
Not that it will mean much to you, considering how you're an A-list blogger and all, but you used to be one of my heroes, beginning back in the day when you and Mike Rogers were exposing right-wing closet cases.
And I applauded you, publicly, and repeatedly, for recognizing the Obama-McClurkin issue as the appalling slap in the face to the LGBT community it was. You GOT it, John, when hardly anyone else did. Have you forgotten all that? How did Barack become Jesus Christ, and Hillary become Regan MacNeil? They're both DLC corporatists, with precious little difference in their positions, and you know it.
What, did Hillary's WV win set you off, when you knew she was going to sweep WV anyway? Why these crazed calls for Hillary to drop out, when every Obama supporter in the country "knows" Obama already has the nomination all sewn up? What do you care, if you're so dead certain Obama is going to be the next president?
Hillary didn't cause "a civil war in the Netroots" -- Obama and the legions of his supporters did, by bashing the rest of us, telling us what old, irrelevant, uneducated, paleofeminist idiots we are, telling us to get the hell out of the way and let the "younger generation" take over, telling us how their "new" Democratic Party doesn't need us anyway -- THAT is who has created this civil war.
What makes me sick to my stomach is that it's not only split the Democratic Party -- it's split the LGBT community -- which is already half-dead in the water as a "community" to begin with. Your post is only symptomatic of that further split.
Attacking Hillary on this low level isn't going to win you any new converts, John. I've heard this same rant countless times, from countless others, and all it's ever done is push me further and further from Obama, and strengthened my support for Hillary.
The ironic thing is, I'm not even a real Hillary supporter -- but forced to choose, I'll take Hillary any day over the antigay, warmongering, GOP-admiring, flip-flopping Obama, and his campaign -- which seems to inspire nothing but intimidation and rage in his supporters.
I seriously doubt you are a Democrat, because no real Democrat would post the lies and distortions and outright carp that you just did.
But I am a Democrat, and I'm fed up with you and your ilk.
It was Obama and his campaign that went negative first - remember last June?
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2007/06...
It was the Obama, his campaign, and the MSM that created a racism issue out of nothing - Bill Clinton's "fairy tale" comment was about MSM coverage, Hillary's "MLK-LBJ" comment was dead on because it did take a president with courage to put his weight behind the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which DID start to turn MLK's dream into reality.
It was the Obama campaign who launched Harry & Louise-like flyers - his plan for health insurance leaves millions out, her plan is an attempt to cover everyone, you god damn progressive pieces of shit know this, yet you support crap like that.
It was the Obama campaign that was caught contacting Canada behind the scenes about NAFTA.
It was Obama who gave Hillary the finger in a scripted moment.
And it is Hillary Clinton with the strength to win Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida, among others - states that REAL DEMOCRATS want to win in order to win back the White House.
Hillary Clinton has been a loyal Democrat for over 35 years. Obama is what he is.
I'll be damned if I run across crap like what you posted, and not speak my mind. You should be ashamed.
John Dean
SluggoJD
Bubba lost House, Senate and Governorships when he was in office.
Red state downticket candidates freely state the Hillary on the ticket would kill them in November.
I just don't see how you can believe the Clintons are good for the party.
They are typhoid for the party.
Reagan was president from 1980-1988. Bush from 1988-1992. Clinton won, partly because of Perot. The right had already consolidated a lot of power prior to 1992, and Gingrich launched his revolution in 1994. People like you helped spread his message. And people like you continue to do so today.
1994 was the bad time. You don't speak of 1996 or 1998, because they don't fit your right wing talking points. "Red state candidates" what? Because your talking points say so? Bullcrap.
The Clintons are certainly not the problem...they are part of the solution, because they are smart, they see through people like you, and they are not afraid to fight. Which candidate wants universal health care? Which candidate does not? See, just those two simple questions blow a hole the size of Texas into your talking points' bullshit.
Universal health care is supposed to be a Democratic Party policy. You support those who do not fight for it - whether you support Obama or McCain.
I support the candidate who wants it.
You can lie, deceive, distort, manipulate...but you can't win.
Hisssssssssssss,
Catdancer
Geeze. You Hillbots think you own everything.
Obama won fair and square. Clinton lost the same way. Let her have her final weeks in the spotlight, but she's going back to the Senate, not 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
BTW, I certainly hope you follow the wishes of Sen. Clinton, who has said she will work heart and soul to elect Obama if she doesn't get the nod. Otherwise, I guess you'll be thrilled with 100 years in Iraq, no health insurance, continued tax breaks for the wealthiest, a rightwing SCOTUS poised to overturn Roe v. Wade, etc., which is what you'll get when you throw your vote to McCain.
Sorry but your "nominee" is getting CRUSHED even after he was declared the winner by the press! Does that tell you anything?
SO please tell me why delegates are more important than Votes? and where does it say in the DNC rule book that the person leading in delegates is the winner? IT says the person reaching a threshold WHICH HE HAS NOT DONE. and he will not do without a large percent of the super-delgates.
When Puerto Rico votes Hillary will not only win the popular vote (like she is now) but she will win it by 500K.
HOW and WHY should she drop out - based on fact and not your opinion
Please respond this time and do not lock my profile out again.
Edwards to Endorse Obama
Former Sen. John Edwards (N.C.) will endorse Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.) tonight in Grand Rapids, Michigan, ending a long period of neutrality for the two-time presidential candidate and giving the Illinois senator another boost of momentum as he draws ever closer to the nomination.
The endorsement was confirmed by a source familiar with Edwards' thinking.
Edwards has long been courted by both Obama and Clinton as he built a considerable constituency during his two unsuccessful runs for president. Edwards' strength was among rural and working class voters -- Obama's weakest area of support to date in the primary.
Edwards had largely disappeared from the political scene since dropping from the race in late January amid money troubles and daunting odds of ousting Clinton and Obama from their perches in the top tier.
In the immediate aftermath of Edwards' decision to drop from the race, both Clinton and Obama made a pilgrimage to North Carolina to huddle with the former candidate and make their pitch for his support.
By all accounts, those meetings left Edwards genuinely undecided. Obama's message of change and his call to end the influence peddling in Washington were clearly an obvious fit for Edwards' sympathies, but he retained some lingering concerns about Obama's depth of experience. Clinton, on the other hand, had considerable experience but struggled to represent the sort of change that Edwards believed was necessary to win the nomination.
Rumors flew for months about Edwards's leaning although of late it had been expected that if he endorsed a candidate, it would be Obama.
Matt Bennett, a former Clinton Administration official, described Edwards as the "troubadour of the working class" and said the North Carolina senator's endorsement of Obama makes it "tougher for Clinton to make the case that working class Democrats can't [or] won't support Obama."
We don't even need to go into her voting record in general or her race-baiting. Hillary needs to go back to being the pretend Senator from New York until we can organize a decent primary challenge to knock her off there too.
It's time for the Clintons to get off the stage.
A quote by Ghandi:
First they ignore you.
Then they ridicule you.
Then they fight you.
Then You Win!
AND WHAT DO YOU REALLY KNOW ABOUT HILLARY CLINTON, ANYTHING BESIDES WHAT YOU'VE READ ON HATE SITES OR HEARD ON THE CRAPPY NEWS MEDIA THAT ARE ALL REPUBLICAN OR DROOLING OBAMABOTS?
YOU ARE THE STANDARD LOSER WHO IS DESTROYING THIS COUNTRY BECAUSE YOU DON'T DO YOUR HOMEWORK. YOU BUY INTO THE BULLSHIT AND IGNORE THE TRUTH.
Or is it a left-wing conspiracy these days?
Obama is weak of his own accord: his status has absolutely nothing to do with HRC. She doesn't weaken him; he is just weak. And she hasn't hurt the party; the party is dysfunctional.
We persevere. You scream.
Rock on.
I am so angry how the Democrat insiders have handled all of this...and how they have treated HILLARY. Under BUSH the American people have been disenfrancised, and for once in a long long long time all American's would be a part of the nominating process, if OBAMA and the Democratic Party really cared about the voters, they would have waited until they all have their vote.
I have been a passionate DEMOCRAT all my life, and now I am seriously considering registrating as an INDEPENDENT...I don't want to belong to a party that treats DEMOCRACY like this Democratic Party has done.
Hell, we might as well keep GEORGE W. BUSH in the White House.
hypocrisy of 'CHANGE', and yet, the oldest political tricks are used when
needed...so Change must be a selective premise...
I may be angry, but I don't hate!
SheShe
In a message dated 5/14/2008 10:27:15 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
writes:
Keep it going man!
"I am no better than any one person, and no person is better than me." We just have different opinions, and truth be known, we are more alike than what either one of us think.
And Obama has never lied...I could use this whole page to name his lies...In fact, I will do up a page and send it your way...What I find with Obama followers, is they almost always resort to name calling, but no substance...I guess because Obama doesn't have substance in his speeches...Just rhetoric and feely good words...I am still waiting to see HOW he is going to do anything...That is why I went with HIllary, because at least she has the courage to say HOW she is going to do what she says she wants to do.
GO BACK AND READ ALL OF OBAMA'S SPEECHES REGARDING REV. WRIGHT...OH, THE LIES HE TRIPPED UP ON, AND GOT BY WITH...
Wise up. Neither candidate has enough pledged delegates to win the nomination. They both need the supers delegates' vote. Hillary currently has the majority of the popular vote. She wins states we need in November that Barrack cannot win. It is precisely the job of the supers in these circumstances to give us the candidate most likely to beat the Republican. If they do their jobs, Hillary Clinton will be the nominee and NOTHING you can say will stop it.
Not going to happen.
WASHINGTON (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton's assertions that she leads Barack Obama in the popular vote are a stretch, at best.
The New York senator is using such claims to shore up supporters and help justify why she's still in the Democratic presidential race despite trailing Obama in the number of convention delegates earned in primaries and caucuses.
The argument is supported only by using dubious math on two fronts: by excluding several caucus states won by Obama and by including Florida and Michigan primary results that the Democratic Party, to date, is rejecting.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hVDbYiVsSrdi...
Your blog, and the gutter tactics you have used over the last few months make you no better than the woman you shit on on a daily basis.
Shame on you.
If you are at all interested in the truth, read on about what happened in just one county in Texas.
I was a member of the Credentials Committee for the Democratic Party of Collin County, Texas.
After witnessing a complete disregard for the rules of the Texas Democratic Party at my own caucus and hearing stories of bullying, intimidation, and cheating at other caucuses, I obtained copies of the caucus sign-in sheets for my county and have been analyzing them since mid-March. The data I have compiled, the written records from the caucuses, as well as my first-hand experience as a Credentials Committee member supports many allegations and complaints against Obama supporters and the Obama campaign made by voters in Collin County, in Texas, and in many other states with caucuses.
Caucuses are extremely open to fraud. If my findings and experience are any indication of what happened at them, (and I have heard ours was actually one of the better run ones), the Superdelegates should take the information into account when deciding who to support. Ever wonder why Obama wanted to do a caucus in Michigan? I can thoroughly explain.
I also witnessed the almost complete disdain and dismissal for the grievances of Hillary supporters who sent complaints and challenges to our Credentials Committee. The committee was mostly pro-Obama, including our Chair, as was the person who was legal counsel to the Collin County Democratic Party. This same pro-Obama attorney was the Rules Committee Chair. Even when it was pointed out specific delegates were ineligible, it was completely disregarded. There appeared to be a systematic attitude of making sure Obama would be the nominee, come hell or high water.
I also authored the Minority Report for the Collin County Credentials Committee and submitted it to the Texas State Democratic Party. It details the many outrageous problems at Texas caucuses as well as the lack of proper handling of complaints presented to the Credentials Committee. Our committee did not thoroughly make sure everyone who voted in the caucuses had voted in the primary or in the right precinct, or were even registered to vote in many cases. I did. On my own.
I have seen evidence of fraud such as sign-in sheets (which are used to document votes) lacking serial numbers and having been printed off the State Party website and most likely passed around prior to the caucuses. I have unequivocable proof of delegates who must be ELECTED the night of the caucuses added days or weeks after the caucuses, and of caucus packets taken home by Permanent Chairs- which could subject them to alteration.
The complaints you may have heard about the Texas caucuses in the media from the Clinton campaign are not just whining. There were alot of shenanigans down here. 70% of the caucuses were run by Obama supporters. I have the data to back this up. The people in control are the ones able to cheat. Many Clinton supporters are FURIOUS because of their experience with the absolute rigging of caucuses in Texas. But then I suppose Obama learned well how to play dirty through Chicago politics.
So, John, Hillary makes you "yell at the TV like she's George Bush, and no one other than George Bush makes me yell at the TV - until now" ? How about this...Obama makes me so sick I would rather have four more years of GEORGE BUSH, than a sneaky, lying, unpatriotic cult leader shoved down my throat by the Democratic Party, Mr. Tingles Chris Matthews, or Oprah. I do not care what Oprah thinks I should read, eat or wear - and I sure as shit don't care who she thinks I should vote for.
You all are screwed, because you have done a bang-up job of alienating Clinton voters with exactly the kind of crap you wrote here. Good luck getting him elected with 70% of Clinton supporters turning their backs on a Democratic Party that did it first to them. There is no one issue the Democratic Party stands for that would make me feel as passionately about voting Democrat as I do about voting against The Chosen One.
Most of us absolutely plan to campaign DILIGENTLY for McCain if Obama is the nominee. If the DNC thinks we will all be joining hands and singing Kumbaya, they are delusional. If Obama was winning fair and square, I could take that. What I CANNOT and WILL NOT accept is how he got delegates in Texas, and probably other caucuses. He was given a free pass while Hillary was vilified in the MSM, his supporters have been vile to us and to her, and they are truly crazy if they think we will all be "one unified party".
Democracy?
We don't need no stinkin' fair democracy!
They honestly think the people who say they wo0n't vote for Obama are either racists, bitter old typical white women or "just mad 'cause Hillary is losing."
LOL
the reasoning power of... what?
my cat Sophie.
Sorry Sophie.
The reason some Clinton supporters won't vote for Obama is because of them and their hate mongering... but don't look to them to take responsibility. After al-l out with the old in with the new. A typical immature and consumerist ideology. The core that has worked for and supported the Democrats are called unnecessary and unneeded and RACIST! talk about an insult... so many of us marched and worked our asses off to give Obama a chance to be where he is. And now they express even more vitriol when some supporters say, OK, fine. then I guess I'll be moving on.
They don't get it. They treat us like enemies and then get even nastier when we eventually accept the invitation.
They don't get it.
It isn't about Clinton losing. It is about how she is losing and the ugliness of it all.
Anyway, though they try to paint us as racists if we do not vote for Obama I for one did support Obama for a very long time, wrote to him and urged him to run so I will tell you I cannot wait to have a black man in the White House. Just not this black man.
My mother in Collin county and my sister in a different city in Collin county all experienced intimidation and very unusual tactics of verifying votes.
It does not just end there. I was elected a Clinton delegate to the senatorial convention and the same frustrations followed me there. The credentials committee was pro-Obama and even when they did uphold a Clinton challenge, the Obama campaign lobbied to have the decision challenged on the open floor of the caucus. Given the majority of Obama supporters at the convention, each challenge would have been overturned and Obama would have won every decision - regardless of right or wrong. They even had a girl carrying a sign at the convention that would be held up to inform the crowd (Obama supporters) when to raise their hands and vote. It was despicable. The only thing that saved sanity is that a citizen commandered the microphone and put forth a motion to accept all committee decisions as stated. The Obama people were furious.
My personal expereince at the senatorial convention (I can verify this in writing) was an Obama delegate was seated after the appropriate time and we agreed to let her vote (because every vote should count) even though we did not have too. Her vote created a tie and Clinton lost a delegate on a coin toss. Literally. The delegate was later revealed not to have been a delegate or an approved alternate.
A friend in Mansfield Texas had to call the police to come and be in the room to ensure no one would be intimidated or forced to leave. The irony - you listen to the news and all you heard was how Clinton supporters were lodging complaints. Like we were sore losers - even though she won the state outright when each person only got one vote. We had to complain or we would have been run over by a bus. I would wager a lot of money that many of Obama's delegates are stolen to use a word the POOR JOHN uses.
She will win the popular vote and will be the nominee so all is right with the world for now. Dems know all to well about buyer's remorse and they are feeling it. The super delegates will sort this out. I have to have Hope.
Women MUST find out if their employer is shorting their pay in no more than 180 days. If they find out they are getting less pay than men after that time, they have no legal recourse.
This is what you advocate when you vote for McCain.
Do you think Hillary has any chance in hell of winning a National election in the future if she hurts this Democratic chance for the presidency in '08? I think it highly unlikely she would ever again be seriously considered by any majority of voters in America if she helps McCain take office.
Why cant she see what every other candidate saw when the numbers were against them? Bwecause some people called her some names? Look, both candidates were beaten and bloodied by this long campaign. No just YOUR candidate. Both of them.
Hillary had a huge lead, in superdelegates, in name recognition, in money raised. Mark Penn lost this election for Hillary. She is responsible for hiring him. All your anger against Obama is utterly misplaced. He won fair and square, and Mark Penn caused Hillary to lose. Thats who you should be venting about. Not a fellow Democratic candidate.
Please, do not vote for McCain. Never, under any circumstances. We really do not want this nut in.
There was a time he may have been an alternative to a very weak Dem. but that time is long past.
Obama may or may not be weak, I don't know but he has the Democratic establishment behind him and I'm sure he will get council on who to choose for cabinet positions who will council him, inform him and help him catch up to the reality behind the office. It is going to shock him/them when they see the mess left behind, the things we know are bad enough what we don't know has to be much, much worse. I was once a supporter of Obama. Various things brought me to neutrality while I researched both candidates as fully as I could.
They both have flaws and both have goodness, they both have strengths and weaknesses.
The hatefulness and ugliness of the ObamaCons is no reason to vote for McCain though yes, it does give one pause. If these are his supporters what is it going to be like trying to do the activist work with them. Will they be bullies in all aspects of their lives? Do they prefer ugliness to co-operation and camaraderie?
Will they even show up?
I haven't seen any evidence which says they will.
Also Dawn, don't forget what you encounter in places like this, huffbama post and the rest of the so called "progressive" blogs are not typical of all O supporters, just the loudest and most vitriolic. There have been many O supporters who have been just as disgusted with these people as you are they just aren't heard from. They leave because if they mention anything resembling a decent word for clinton they are attacked.
(lots of friends have told me some real horror stories.) They have also been disgusted by the media coverage and feel somewhat uneasy about the media coverage, the sexism and misogyny as well as certain elements of the Obama campaign tactics. They get that he isn't perfect and still choose to support him just as we get that Hillary has flaws. You have to take the whole person into account which unfortunately so many O supporters do not. Meaning they do not allow for his humanity. This makes me nervous because if he should win the Presidency the moment he signs a bill or supports a policy they disagree with or who knows what, they will feel betrayed, they will turn on him and attack him with the same venom.
The clay feet syndrome.
Please Dawn,
McCain is as bad as Bush if not worse.
If you cannot bear to pull that lever for Obama then write Hillary in. You will still be heard but without the burden of having voted McCain into office.
I have no idea what I'm going to do. I always thought I would vote for whoever the nominee was but I confess to being tempted to writing Hillary in. I do believe she would have been the strongest leader. As grown ups we know we won't always agree with everything a President says of does... God knows there have been times I was annoyed with her in this campaign. As grown ups we also know that demonizing another human being is not just destructive to that person but it is destructive to the party and it is destructive to one's self.
Seriously, would you want to be any of these hate-mongers?
Look, Hillary and Barak are basically the same candidate, and both are much better than McCain. So you can get your panties in a twist, kick over the checker board and go pout in the furnace room, or you can be an adult and drop this drivel.
I really, truly, honestly, sincerely, don't care who gets the nomination, as long as that person wins the election. We can't afford a president McCain. End of story.
Hillary and Barak have very similar policy platforms. They would both appoint supreme court judges who would be much better than anything McCain would come up with. Those are the facts, but it seems like we aren't interested in facts, just pitching glamour fits.
I really wonder how many of the people in these comment rooms who get people all riled up are just GOP members who are trying to make a stink.
You keep saying this garbage but no one actually cites any credible sources to back up what they say. The sources, when someone actually does post them are never credible. If you research you can find some very old neo con and far right wingnut sites with these exact same accusations, talking points, lies and smears that you now find all leftist sites. Sometimes they are word for word. Now that is just sad.
Oh, sometimes there is parroting of the MSM... which is then decryed as corrupt, idiotic, whores when they dare to question or criticize Obama so how can that be taken seriously.
Yeah, I've been wondering how many people on the so called "progressive" blogs are GOP myself. I never thought of hatred as a Progressive value.
I'm going back to being a liberal.
BTW. Did you see where HRC is actually ranked as more liberal that BHO?
He is in the exact middle- befitting a President really. You have to please everyone.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080521/pl_nm/usa_p...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FSPcJtsXLs&eurl...
She's not a DINO (Democrat In Name Only) ... she is a republiCON who has infiltrated our party and cares only about herself.
How republicon of her!
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/05...
I recently read she's a vegetarian.
Get over yourselves, and go back to where you belong--the Rethug Party which just loves to keep you in poverty and ignorance.
I think John's egging them on now.
Spioken like a typical Obama Con... the new neocons.
Anyone who doeswn't support Obama is a racist.
Well you know, there are some who are racists certainly but there are many who can't wait to see a black man or woman as President of this country. Just not this black man.
BTW, nice way to reach out and "be nice to Clinton supporters."
That is what Barack ordered isn't it?
I'm glad he realizes that he can't really win without all the people his sweet sypporters have alienated.
He really should have said something much sooner.
Don't forget most Clinton supporters started off happy as hell with both candidates and were very vocal about it and about their wholehearted willingness to vote for whoever won the primary. There were even a few Obama supporters saying the same thing.
I wonder what changed that? When you treat people as enemies you shouldnm't be surprised if they actually become enemies.
Gentleman and Gentlewomen,
with all due respect, I implore you to work quickly and decisively to end this painful and protracted primary race between Senator Clinton and Senator Obama. I began as a Clinton supporter, but I am firmly planted in Senator Obama's camp now and I believe that Senator Clinton's refusal to bow out of this primary race gracefully is damaging our chances to beat Senator McCain to the White House in November. I cannot bear to see us lose the Presidency once again - too too much is at stake. I have always been a fan and supporter of the Clintons, but this primary season has been a painful event to watch. There is far too much at stake to allow Senator Clinton to ignore the greater good and only listen to her inner-ambitions.
Rules are rules, and Michigan and Florida chose to go against those rules and Senator Obama has not questioned the rules and therefore he should not be punished for following the rules. Senator Clinton was coherent of the rules back in December, but when the rules did not begin to play in her favor, she began to endeavor to change them. This is simply wrong. Again, I say, this is simply wrong.
I hope that the Democratic Party leaders will work quickly and swiftly to end this conundrum so that we may get on to the business of taking the White House back in 2009 - it is absolutely critical that we do not let Mr. McCain take office, as peace and prosperity for all will be greatly threatened by his being our leader. Senator Obama has the skills, the balanced disposition, the quiet and calm demeanor, the independent nature, and the worldliness to lead us at this time in our history. Please, please let us fight for him to be our leader.
Respectfully,
me
OK, that's that.
Thanks for solving it for us.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/21/jim-we...
In a way, I like Jim Webb...I think he can learn about social issues he's weak on and can accept Obama's platform. He's intelligent and I don't see him as a pure pol yet, the same way I see Obama. And Webb is no stranger to DC, having been Secy of the Navy under Reagan, before he resigned, so he does have experience in DC, yet also looks less like a DC insider.
OK, let's admit that "perception" is what some people vote for...and sometimes you have to compromise to get what you really want.
1. He can pick up the Appalachians. Just look at that clip I posted. He's one of them.
2. He takes McCain's "military" edge totally off the table.
I think the Clintons are representing DLC interests-- corporate interests, the telcos and the HMOs and the drug companies, the corporate world, and the right-wing Lieberman Jewish gang who have always backed the neo-cons, and the neo-cons themselves.
These people have been smearing the Democratic Party and Democratic values for years.
So then it is a life or death fight for the Democratic Party (and the country) with all of the bad actors who keep us from any meaningful reform, those who have all of the power now.
It really makes more sense that this is what the fight is about, rather than about Hillary's personal ambition.
But because it is hidden, and unstated, it is at once more pernicious, and more evil. It is the big lie all over again. The big lie -- WMD are why we invaded Iraq, etc. Never admitting what the truth is -- the simple truth. I'd say that is what is going on.
(Comment also posted at booman's.)
syolles
While on a superficial level this is (or has become) personal with Hill&Bill, the real fight for them is to continue advancing the blue-tinged version of the Corporate Party.
HILLARY MUST BE THROWN OUT OF THE PARTY.
HILLARY GO BACK TO YOUR PARTY.
I SHALL TRY MY BEST TO GET HER OUT OF THE SENATE WHEN THIS MESS IS OVER.
Sheeesh! Go away for a little while, then return to this.
John, you're going to have to get some smarter trolls than this!
Save this attack dog crap for the Repubs!! I concede that Clinton is not who I am voting for, simply because the Clintons have become too friendly with the Bushes.
But, please save the vitriol for people who have earned it FAR MORE: Bush, Cheney, McCain, and the whole GOP gang!
Even Nancy Pelosi deserves a major upbraiding for not allowing so much as one vote on impeaching the worst, most devious "Commander-in-Chief" in American History, bar none.
Save the HATE FOR THE GOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't let Clinton get to you... there's no need to be shrill. She is a Democrat and with the absence of Sen. Kennedy impending, WE NEED EVERY DEM WE HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1. You said , "... she has caused a civil war in the Netroots" Maybe that was part of the plan. How else could the netroots have been brought down? After all, Hillary WAS, and still is, to me ... a Republican. Scaife, Fox ... she was forced to show her true colors. Shame on the part of the Netroots to fall for it.
2. I disagree with one thing you said. That she FORCED certain organizations to keep supporting her. ("How she has forced EMILY's List and AFSCME and the AFT to waste their money because of her.") They make their own decisions. Except for EMILY'S List, I don't believe any of these organizations are for women only. And, in all, honesty, EMILY's List has men in it, too (as donors). These groups should be ashamed of themselves. They CHOOSE to keep this charade running. And any other candidate who loses, because of not having campaign money -- should put blame where blame is due.
Living in California, I can assure you I get very mad at hearing that "average Americans" are with Hillary. Since when was West Virginia the heart of the U.S.? Far as I can see, her only true base consists of the elderly and uneducated.
The party's far left wing can't maintain the fraud forever. Some time betwen now and November 4 voters will find out why George Soros, DailyKos, John Aravosis, David Brock, Arianna Huffington, et al, got behind Obama before the bandwagon started picking up gullible liberals and centrists. McCain's winning margin will make the Nixon-McGovern race look like a bailbiter.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080521/pl_nm/usa_p...
How ironic that you are mad -- MAD, I tell you! -- at AmericaBlog ("This post puts you in the same class as Bill O'Reilly and your site in line with Fox News"), yet you have no problem with the entire Clinton campaign LIVING on Fox.
Are you THAT ill-informed, or are you just stupid?
oh, sorry if that offends any of you Catholic heathens."
the very large and white Pastor John Hagee
bend over and kiss your own ass.
We're not here to woo you. Get on the bus or get outta the way.
We can help to educate and empower, but the notion that we need to woo Clinton's supporters, that we need to be "nice" to them to get their votes for Obama, is really the most ridiculous argument.
It will take the majority of the citizenry to grab the reins away from the Neos of both red and blue persuasions (and electing Obama is just the beginning of the work ahead), and if the majority can't smarten up and act for the good of all, then we as a whole are doomed and we deserve it.
logic in making your choice you will vote for what is best for you.
If you need someone to explain it to you maybe you should just
not vote. Obama is much more of a Dem than Clinton ever was,
anyone that doesn't understand that is unreachable with logic.
Clinton voters who say they will vote McCain over Obama defy any
definition of Democrat that I know.
--mirth
F'n A right, mirth!
Well said!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/primary_rdp
Obama could be yesterday's stale toast?........