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Wow.
Couldn't resist going off topic; I'm loving this one.
McCain's still bitching about the "100 year war" ad and demanding it stop.
The DNC replies: "Quit whining."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/02/dnc-to...
Maybe someone could ask her when she leaves church tomorrow morning?
It’s very unfortunate that videos like this and the “obliterate Iran” have not received more attention. Now if Obama had said those things….
For some odd reason, she’s getting a free ride on these remarks.
its been too long :)
That's basic 1st Amendment stuff, which you and everyone else here should know.
She is NOT equating Catholicism , Judaism to white supremacy or jihad.
What she is doing is setting up an argument to gut the 1st Amendment of equal protection of religion / ideology.
Goodbye Deborah Jean.
Though I never paid you at all,
You had the grace to kill yourself
While those about you crawled.
They crawled out of your black book.
And they whispered into your phone.
They hanged you from a rafter
And made good your dirty name.
And it seems to me you wished your life
Didn’t vanish in the shed.
Never knowing who to sing to
When the news set in.
And I would have liked to have used you
For a goat and sin
Your wishes burned out long before
My urges ever did…
Opps...
Looks like Hillary's little credibility problem is about to surface again, and not a moment too soon I might add.
GIVE IT UP HILL...GO AWAY
PLS's diary :: ::
Chris asked about the state of the race and Howey said "It's still very fluid." He talked about Barack's early lead in Feb. and the tightening of the polls since, whether it's due to the Rev., or the "gas" pander. Then he threw the bombshell. He stated that a memo from Evan Bayh has surfaced in which Bayh blames the Clinton's for the closing of the Magnequench plant in Vapraiso, Indiana, and this memo is due to hit the presses tomorrow (and hopefully will change the fucking conversation). Howey also set the stage by stating that Hillary had been campaigning 2 weeks ago on this plant closing, blaming it on Bush, and that this had been effective tactic for her.
I really hopes it comes out, hillary has been getting away with too much, while the pundits yell about how easy it has been for Obama.
So we have 2 things, Bayh is a liar and a hypocrite for supporting hillary after her husband approved the sale to china.
hillary is a liar for saying that this is bush's fault when it is her husbands fault.
The underlying premiser here is that it woud warrant scrutiny if Obama made the same remark! Let's simply file that under the double standards that are but one defining mark of racism.
Clinton makes an excellent point. And it's silly to complain about the comparison, seriously. That really, completely misses the point! She's saying that if you give things to some religions, you have to give those things to all religions, even the ones you don't like. That's hardly controversial, and her comparison was that Catholics, Jews, and secular people are good and white supremacists and Jihadists are bad (Jihadists? What?), but if you do favors for the good, you also have to do them for the bad. Come on, you guys are better than this. Stop feigning outrage at a comparison instead of the substance of the comparison. This kind of thing really pisses me off. And then I read the comments by people who are actually offended that Clinton compared good religions to bad religions, and I think that maybe the world isn't as smart as I hoped.
If Barack Obama were to say the same thing and got whipped by the media, THAT WOULD BE BAD, TOO. My guess is that his opinion is similar on vouchers. We have this freedom of religion thing in America, you know, so the government can't choose one religion over another. You may disagree with that concept -- I believe everyone should have my religion, for instance, which is atheism, and I think everyone else is wrong for not having my beliefs -- but there it is, in the Bill of Rights, and last I checked, white supremacists and Jihadists are also (nominally) protected in the Bill of Rights. Just like your mother.
See, I just compared your mother to Jihadists and white supremacists by noting that the Bill of Rights applies to all of the above. This is a fair comparison (as long as your mother is alive and American). Please direct your outrage at the argument rather than the comparison; trying to discredit someone based on what they compare, regardless of the validity of the comparison, is a logical fallacy.
This individual is a thinker! To date, Obama has actually said nothing wrong or controversial during the entire campaign. We simply have a double standard in America for how we look at---his----arguments/actions---and the validity of other comparisons ---(the other candidates)
We can even take the speech of Dr. Wright, which was quite eloquent before the spin doctors got a hold of it, and make the same argument as above. "Different, is not deficient!" Hell, I'm African American, and I can tell you it is a fact that cultures learn differently. I can also testify that when educational and cultural opportunties are paralleled and equalized---the same case begins to dissolve in light of the obvious results.
It is the same element to consider Obama's statement in saying "The people of Pennsylvania and Ohio have been disappointed and ignored; and therefore, cling to the the things that give them both value and comfort in those difficult times." The fact these people are hurting is truth beyond debate--but the world attacks the "comparison" that relates guns, religion, and tough economic times.
Excellent thinking on the behalf of Mauro7inf: We continually base arguments on political comparison; and not the underlying argument.
I think someone is deliberately misunderstanding her point, which is actually a very good one. When people say they want vouchers they are thinking, as she says, Catholic, or Jewish, or something else relatively mainstream. They are NOT thinking about vouchers for e.g. Islamic schools or the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. She is asking: who will decide what an 'acceptable' option will be? She is NOT equating Catholics and Jews with Islamist terrorists, and I think it disingenuous to suggest this. She is asking people to THINK.
Vouchers suck. They are not a substitute for public education, but a wedge issue designed to undermine it.
Her kind of politics are devisive, and she knows it. She understands the fears of America, and she plays them to ther advantage.
Hillary internalized the right-wing conspiracy and is now spitting its tactics back at Democrats, at our nominee, and at our congress. It's over. Democrats are not going to sit back and watch Hillary use every dirty trick in the book to destroy our party in a "if I can't win, then no one will win" hissy fit. She set the rules with her "kitchen sink" comment. Well, now she's going to see what the kitchen sink feels like. Starting with her having compared Catholics and Jews to jihadists and white supremacists.
You like apples?
ah well, I guess I shouldn't be surprised - gain some measure of machine media acceptance, become a talking head on cable news and it makes sense that you'd bring that thinking back to the forum that got you noticed in the first place - media critics say the MSM is terrified that the blogosphere will be its undoing - nah, just cut the upstarts in on a little piece of the pie and they'll fall over themselves to get a permanent seat at the table
why fear the blogosphere when you can absorb it?
But you cannot read her mind, and more than half of your arguments against her rely on that very technique, that you "know" her intentions.
And in so doing, you are forgetting that there are still many many people who respect her achievements and her record and are extremely turned off by this kind of rhetoric.
It's been said that no male nominee who achieved the same percentage of the delegates failed to take the fight all the way to the convention. To insist that the first female nominee to achieve the same status must be treated differently is wrong.
And "the party" is NOT fighting back, not uniformly. More than "the party" there are the voters, many of whom are still handing her victories, even now.
If the party is destroyed, John, it takes two sides to tango. If we lose the election in November because Clinton supporters were so turned off by tactics like yours that they fail to support Obama, is that really that much worse than Obama supporters turned off by the tactics of the Clinton campaign that they fail to vote for Clinton?
The party gets torn apart either way. The rhetoric on both sides is unsupportable. And when you duplicate the tactics of those you have vilified, you lose the moral high ground, and actually prove that those tactics SHOULD be used because clearly they ARE still effective.
And then any suggestion that Obama and his supporters represent a "new" way of politics is shown to be nothing but wishful thinking.
I don't like the idea of vouchers either, but she's putting up a pretty weak argument against them, so I'm not sure she's doing our side any good.
I mean, I would think any school that got vouchers would have to be accredited, and that's how it would be decided who got them and who didn't.
(I've been slowly learning that she's not near as smart as I once thought she was.)
Anyway, I agree that the argument isn't the strongest against vouchers - I think that they serve to undermine public education (which is what the Republicans are really after...) and even if they were a good idea don't begin to cover enough of what private school costs in my neck of the woods (NYC private schools cost ~30K/yr) to be of any use at all.
cool it on these bogus witch hunts - the woman does enough shady stuff that you don't have to distort bogus non-issues to make her look bad
Her methods are the same ones she has always used.
She is a power mad, Ruthless BITCH who could care less who gets hurt to get what she wants. Her nomination is not a farie tail it is a nightmare that is all too true.
This is something you are now just figured out, it is something that the "right wing" has knows since YOU helped put her husband in the white house.
You can not create a monster and then cry about her stepping on a few buildings!
She is going to win the DNC nod just except it before you find yourself and (maybe your blog) the subject of her attention. Better jump back on board the Hillery express before it runs you down.
What is that there up ahead? Is that a light at the end of a long dark tunnle?
No it is a train coming to run you down.
Irony... What bitter Irony.
Don't feel to bad, I can understand the pain.
Pain and bitter Irony are two things I understand real well.
However, we're loyal, and we'll continue to keep the watch.
Thanks for a format where we can get the facts.
blackwolf