AMERICAblog: Honestly, besides being tortured, what did McCain do to excel in the military?
susanai56
· 1 year ago
I DO get it.....he was a vet, he was tortured: but also he was stupid to get caught and that is ancient history. He is 72 years old. Would you let him look after your house let alone your country.?
SkippyFlipjack
· 1 year ago
You know, if someone wrote "Honestly, besides getting shot a couple of times, what did John Kerry do to excel in the military?" I'd take exception and think they were slamming the service of a soldier who served with distinction.
Dragonfly
· 1 year ago
John McCain is not untouchable. Give me a break!! Republicans remind me of ostriches. They refuse to see the disarray this country is in and so they bury their heads in the sand, spewing forth lies about how great we're doing. If you say it enough, you believe it will be true. I spent 25 years in the military and I have the right to question whether being a shot down POW gives you Commander in Chief experience. Just ask some of the POW's who didn't capitulate and do proproganda films for the enemy how they feel about McCain. Republicans, listen to NEWT, you need a new playbook or you'll be sitting on the sidelines for the next 8 years wondering how it all went terribly wrong.
mixinupmedicine
· 1 year ago
I thought the military's standard on torture was to hold out as long as you can, but it was understood that torture could be effective. I don't think we should be critcizing him AT ALL. You don't know how much suffering he went through and you can't honestly say you or any other vet would have held out longer than McCain unless they were being tortured right next to him. McCain's father was an Admiral if I recall correctly and the enemy had to know how important that made McCain. He still can't lift his arms up over his head. I'd say that speaks to considerable torture, and his capitulation is understandable and reasonable, however regrettable it is provide propaganda against your country.
You also don't criticize the content of the propaganda. It is well known that Korean War POWs openly defied their captors in propaganda films by flipping the bird, and sending messages in morse code. Are you gonna lump them in as unpatriotic by their mere participation?
I think this SMEAR CAMPAIGN does a disservice not only to the Democrats, but to the Democratic process. This kind of Swift Boating avoids discussion of the issues and is one step away from the fear-mongering that re-elected George Bush, and look at what that got us.
SteamingPile
· 1 year ago
Given that certain RW yahoos have asked the same question of 9/11 spouses, survivors, etc., not to mention real war heroes, it is indeed a legit question. Can we have a designated nutjob to deliver this meme that the rest of us can quickly disavow?
I have no idea who the yahoo was who sent me a reply by email, so I'll post it here:
"This is an absolutely disgusting post. You should be ashamed. Trying to label McCain as a propagandist after he's been tortured. It's obvious that you have no idea about what you're talking about. It is people like you that give the rest of us democrats a bad imagine. Whether or not McCain is experienced or not is a valid matter. The reprehensible in which you try to discuss it is quite another."
To which I reply, "perhaps swiftboating McCain is a nasty thing to do, but if it's good for the goose, you know the rest. Also consider that members of the SBVFT are connected to the McCain campaign, and that said SBVFT members still insist that what they did was right and good, while attempts to do the same to Sen. McCain is not. I will tell you one thing, Gen. Clark was absolutely right; nothing the Sen. McCain did in the Navy uniquely qualifies him to be President."
Indigo
· 1 year ago
In the Good Ole' Boys Club, having been in the military in any form is evidence of heroism. To have been captured by the other side is evidence of extreme courage, heroism, and powerful leadership ability.
Don't ask the Good Ole' Boys Club to make sense or be logical, they have their standards, if you're one of them, you understand, and if you're not one of them, you have no understanding of important things and that's where the discussion ends.
Psychos? Obviously. They run this country? Equally obvious.
cspring
· 1 year ago
There are psychos everywhere, as indicated by your response.
Coming Undone
· 1 year ago
For 23 combat missions (an estimated 20 hours over enemy territory), the U.S. Navy awarded McCain a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals.
"McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat," explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and former chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs -- the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam since the 1973 fall of Saigon. "Since McCain got 28 medals," Bell continues, "that equals out to about a medal-and-a-half for each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys -- grunts on the ground -- who had more than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I'm sure a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison. The question really is how many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down."
For years, McCain has been an unchecked master at manipulating an overly friendly and biased news media. The former POW turned Congressman, turned U.S. Senator, has managed to gloss over his failures as a pilot and collaborations with the enemy by exaggerating his military service and lying about his feats of heroism.
McCain has sprouted a halo and wings to become America's POW-hero presidential candidate.
Damn, maybe we don't need the designated nutjob I called for in my previous post. The truth will (hopefully) set us free.
SkippyFlipjack
· 1 year ago
That doesn't seem fair -- to denigrate a pilot for only having 20 hours of combat time when only hours recorded in the air over enemy territory count towards that. I'm sure that sort of comparison looks bad for all bomber pilots.
And complaining about McCain's 20 hours of service when it was cut short by a 5-year stint in captivity seems pretty f***ing weak.
We are not Swiftboaters.
TheOriginalLiz
· 1 year ago
We aren't swiftboaters, but the plane-crashing, collaborating son of the admiral is overdecorated and over-rated.
Nigel Elliott
· 1 year ago
Treason aside, McCain graduated at the bottom of the Academy. As president, McCain would crash America, like he did his plane. McCain is the real Manchurian candidate.
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
He graduated at the bottom of has Naval Academy class, after being a legacy placement because of his grandfather and father. He immediately got shot down and spent the rest of the war in custody. Not a very illustrious career.
I wouldn't call being in en enemy prison camp easy, but he also didn't have to march through the jungle getting shot at either. More importantly- he never led men. He has no significant leadership training or experience.
Jim Olson
· 1 year ago
Except, in the mind of Joe and Sally Six-Pack, that he served is enough. Does matter what he did, or how well he did it. He served. Obama did not. 'Nuff said.
fostert
· 1 year ago
No it's not. John Kerry served and he was vilified for it. And his opponent was treated as a hero for not even showing up for his Guard duty.
rosebud
· 1 year ago
And didn't John Kerry prove a Vietnam veteran can't take the the White house?
Ksivid
· 1 year ago
No only war heros who throw away their medals and provide comfort and support to the enemy -- they can't be elected to the White House.
politigal
· 1 year ago
I totally agree that being captured isn't something that makes someone a good leader, and that it's legitimate to ask questions about the totality of McCain's service.
However, I really wish you would stop throwing comments into your posts about the video that he made while in captivity. None of us can know what we would or wouldn't do after hours/days/weeks/months/years of being tortured and beaten and throwing around the term "treason" in a case like this is why the neocons are able to gain traction with their ridiculous comments that Democrats/liberals don't support the troops. There are plenty of legitimate things to criticize McCain about. Making light of the ordeal he suffered adds no value to the debate.
Mike_G
· 1 year ago
Karl Rove had the sleaze to make fun of John Kerry for being *wounded in combat* with fucking Purple Heart band-aids.
Imagine if Kerry had been captured and made a propaganda broadcast for the North Vietnamese -- do you think Rove wouldn't be exploiting it, and the corporate media replaying it on the nightly news more times than the Dean Scream?
SkippyFlipjack
· 1 year ago
Exactly. Are you Karl Rove? Should we act like cretins because he did?
MarkInOhio
· 1 year ago
They won.
boxstriker
· 1 year ago
As "Ksivid" so eloquently stated the only reason Kerry was attacked for his military service was due to his actions after he served ----- " No only war hero's who throw away their medals and provide comfort and support to the enemy -- they can't be elected to the White House.
lark83
· 1 year ago
I couldn't agree more. Every one of those guys eventually broke and signed statements, made videos, etc. We were all taught that at AF survival school after the war. I really find some of the comments here offensive.
RepubAnon
· 1 year ago
By McCain's current standards, he wasn't ever tortured. Long stretches of solitary confinement, temperature extremes, "stress positions", beatings - these are just "harsh interrogation techniques" by Guantanamo (and McCain's) current standards.
I'd call them torture, myself - but John McCain wouldn't (any more) - and he'd let those confessions of "war crimes" that he made while being "harshly interrogated" into evidence at trial by a military commission.
vwcat
· 1 year ago
Has anyone ever heard from anyone who was a pow with McCain? Like Kerry had his crew with him in 04. but, I don't think I've ever heard from anyone who was in the camp with McCain. Now I might be just not aware of it. There could have been a bunch of them who have come out and talked about McCain and I simply have not been aware of it. But, I'm really curious./
lark83
· 1 year ago
I knew a guy who was a long time POW with McCain. McCain's reputation among them is solid. I fully expect at the GOP convention a bunch of these guys will come out and say what a great guy McCain was. Maybe so, but he still sucks as presidential material.
vwcat
· 1 year ago
Thanks. I was curious about them. I did not think he was an ass but, I just never heard from any of the people he was in with. But, I don't think being a pow should make is so a person is owed the presidency. I do see alot of McCain blurring Vietman with Iraq. Boomers have carried their 40 year culture war into this era and it's tiring. So, it is not that different but, still, I think some of McCains problem with Iraq is because of Vietnam. and let's not even go to the domestic issues which he has no interest in even though our country is crashing down the mountain fast. diane -------------- Original message ----------------------
bigassbelle
· 1 year ago
I've often thought the same thing, politically incorrect as it may be in George Bush's America.
Even more, I've wondered why those who were captured and held with him haven't been held up as great American heroes?
McCain was apparently kind of a problem in the military. After having won a coveted position as a flyer due to daddy's connections, he proceeded to crash numerous planes and apparently did not particularly excel in his field. He liked the outfits, though, and I think they're pretty spiffy myself.
But what is really ironic to me is that he was tortured and he did give in and make propaganda tapes for the North Vietnamese. From all reports, what he said in the tapes, what he told his captors, it was all bogus.
I've read some rather bitter diatribes from others who were held captive and tortured, and it is those accounts that brings up the "treason" issue, and I'm not sure it applies. Reportedly, those who are captured by the enemy are allowed to give name, rank, serial number and that is all. To do otherwise is to sell out one's country. Or so they say, these others who were also held captive.
But why does McCain support torture if UNDER TORTURE he gave false or misleading information? Wouldn't that make him LESS likely to support torture?
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
Now, at least, no one expects you to stand up to torture. The US expects it's soldiers to fold under the pressure and are not marked down for it. I don't know what the policy was in the 60s.
This is also why torture is considered an unreliable method to get information from anyone. A victim just say anything to stop the pain.
Me- I'd just start squealing like a pig as soon as you showed up. I'd say whatever you wanted to hear.
chowderSF
· 1 year ago
Hmmmm, I am curious if that propaganda tape is out there for all to see? And I am just wondering when it will show up and what effect it will have. Granted it was made under duress, but I would not put it past the Repugs to expose something like that about a Dem if there was something like it out there. I really think the Dems have to start the attack against McSame way before the Repugs start their all out assault on Obama.
Nigel Elliott
· 1 year ago
John McCain: War Hero or North Vietnam's Go-To Collaborator? A compassionate Vietnamese civilian left his air raid shelter and swam out to McCain. McCain’s arm and leg were fractured and he was tangled up in his parachute underwater. He was drowning. The Vietnamese man saved McCain’s sorry ass, and yet McCain has nothing but hatred for “the gooks” who allegedly tortured him. As he told reporters on his campaign bus (The Straight Talk Express) in 2000, “I will hate them as long as I live.” (1) http://www.counterpunch.org/valentine06132008.html
1billinnj2
· 1 year ago
lets stop the freaking FISA BILL first. freak mcCain, he is a jackass. if this FISA BILL get through then george and dick will spy on all americans, declare martial law, set up a dictatorship after he bombs iran and declares world war 3. they better impeach this jackass soon.
ComradeRutherford
· 1 year ago
Hanoi John is demanding that the US treat it's prisoners exactly as the VC treated him. He wants to be top dog now and order the same torture on others.
Where is that video of his denunciation of America! Where's the Democratic 527 to run the Hanoi John video?
The Democratic Leadership always plays to lose.
rosebud
· 1 year ago
Dems dont need a 527, someone just needs to find the video and to stick it on youtube
Let the New Swift-boating Begin! Let's dissect McCain's travels from tortured vet to torture apologist. How could victim become advocate? What other perverse dementia awaits us? Let the games begin. And just remember, there are no winners....
If McCain is running on his military record, he needs to release his miitary records. McCain has yet to release his military record. He only released a few pages listing his awards. Kerry released his entire record. McCain has to too.
shell
· 1 year ago
"... what exactly is McCain's military experience that prepares him for being commander in chief? It's not like McCain rose to the level of general or something. "
Well, you know, a file clerk at, say, Intel, certainly should apply for the CEO job. Or at any huge corporation. This was supposed to be snark, but it seems that the Bush cabal HAS been doing exactly that. (25-year-old lawyers, educated at a religious law school, are in top positions, right?)
brian
· 1 year ago
The right was smearing John Kerry's records, but John McCain's is taboo. How quaint of them. Being a war veteran does not make one a better choice for President, no matter the party. If the person was a general or some high ranking commander, that may be a different story. We have so many veterans in this country and most of them are probably not qualified to be President.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Remember when Gen Eisenhower left office he warned the country to be careful of the military complex.
red_dwarf
· 1 year ago
McBush graduated 894th out of a class of 899 (so I've heard).
(894/899)*100 = bottom 4%
He graduate Magna Cum Dumb Ass. What else do you really need to know?
MarkInOhio
· 1 year ago
Um, (894/899)*100 = 99.44%, meaning that 99.44% of the class was above him, placing him in the bottom 0.6%, not 4%.
I agree with your basic point, but it would have been much more telling if you had not made a dumb arithmetic error in a post calling someone else a "Magna Cum Dumb Ass"! LOL
red_dwarf
· 1 year ago
Mark - Off by a factor of 10! Consider it a calculator error - but point made. Thanx
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Really funny. You give him to much credit. He is just a dumb ass.
dolcissimo1
· 1 year ago
Yea! And did he throw is ribbons or his medals? Wait a minute... wrong blog. Or is it...
ClintonHater
· 1 year ago
I think there is a distinct difference between the two actions. What Kerry did was in protest of an unpopular and dumb war. What McCain did was in clear violation of the military code of conduct and was in effect aiding and abetting an enemy of the United States.
nodd
· 1 year ago
And you would know about torture how? You're nothing more than another fool never having put your life on the line for anything, yet you have an opinion about someone that did.
ClintonHater
· 1 year ago
So the fact that I never served in the military and shot at and killed people makes it perfectly OK that McCain betrayed our country to the enemy? Thats a little ridiculous don't you think? I never served in public office, and by your logic I can't criticize politicians. That is just bull shit logic people use to evade criticism. Not going to work with me.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Wait a minute. I can't stand McCain. Saying that no one knows someones breaking point. I don't blame him for breaking. I just don't like his bragging.
ClintonHater
· 1 year ago
He got special treatment for being an admirals son, and somehow the other POW's didn't "break".
SGreen
· 1 year ago
The reason McCain was held as POW was he was either dumb or gutless. How else would one get caught ? This is a guy who got his job as a naval aviator through connections, not through qualification, and this is a guy who crashed his plane more than 3 occasions, of which none was on war zone. Since he was not even promoted to Admiral. how is he qualified to become Commander in Chief?
nodd
· 1 year ago
A soviet missile shot him down you ass. I guess you served in the military and are an expert.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Yes maybe he was shot down by a missle. But S Green was right. When he got back he didn't make Admiral. We have had a lot of good presidents that never served in the military. Lincoln, Roosevelt. Bush who played pilot didn't even go to a real war. Back then the way to get out was go in the national guard. That is a fact.
yellowtail3
· 1 year ago
How many presidents have been made flag rank in the navy? None. How many careers army officers who made general have been prez? Eisenhower? Military flag rank has certainly not been the route to the oval office; however, we've had MANY former JOs as prez. Just in my lifetime, let me see... Kennedy (LT) NIxon and Ford (LCDR), Johnson (political stunt, USN as his vehicle), Carter (USNA grad, LT, left early due to family obligations), Bush1. All navy guys.
McCain has more time in service than just about any past prez, except maybe... Ike. Someone could correct me?
moreleesafer
· 1 year ago
I think it's a valid question. i spent about 10 years on the military. that makes me no more qualified to be the commander in chief than McCain. yeah,he was tortured...but does that meean he gets a free pass on everything? i think not. he graduated from a 4 year college. um okay. Obama is a lawyer by profession. he has more education, he is certainly more qualified in that respect. morally...let's seeeeee Obama has been married once to another very educated lawyer. no wman has come out out the woodwork yet to claim she had an affair with him. so I am assuming he is faithful or extremely discrete. I guess you can say John McCain is more qualified when it comes to cheating on your wife and dumping her for wife 2.0.
nodd
· 1 year ago
Yes, I can believe you served about 10 years on the military. Were you a working girl?
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
What the f k make you an expert. How many years did you serve? The republicans criticized Gore and Kerry who both served in a war zone. Unless you f king die or end up a prisoner like McCain than you are nothing. What is the difference between dem soldiers and repub soldiers that you f king see. Soldiers are soldiers. At 10 years now they can even retire. Get off moreleesafers back.
moreleesafer
· 1 year ago
don't be an a$$, nodd.
and thanks southernyankee
you are right. many time the soldier or ground troop is treated as if they are expendable. exhibit A: see how W and his boys are treating the returning vets.
fred4dallas
· 1 year ago
So what you are saying is being Muslim and monogomus qualifies you for president? Have you forgoten Bakkak's prescher the Reverand ( ihate whits because they invented Aids to kill me and my race? Sound familiar? Didn't Obama used to have a Christian before swiching to Muslim as did Cassuis Clay when he renounced the Army and his country in favor of not going to war because his religion forbid it? More Ecucated?
moreleesafer
· 1 year ago
he. is. not. a. muslim. as if his religion even mattered.
bet you Obama can spell "Educated". yes. he. can.
President Obama......get used to it.
fred4dallas
· 1 year ago
Where is all the media asking the tough questions about why the federal government hasn't solved the problem? Asking where the FEMA trucks (and trailers) are?
Why isn't the Federal Government relocating Iowa people to free hotels in Chicago?
When will Spike Lee say that the Federal Government blew up the levees that failed in Des Moines?
Where are Sean Penn and the Dixie Chicks?
Where are all the looters stealing high-end tennis shoes and big screen television sets?
When will we hear Governor Chet Culver say that he wants to rebuild a 'vanilla' Iowa, because that's the way God wants it?
Where is the hysterical 24/7 media coverage complete with reports of cannibalism?
Where are the people (read liberals, progressives and other way out left wingers) declaring that George Bush hates white, rural people?
How come in 2 weeks, you will never hear about the Iowa flooding ever again?
Where are the debit cards for Iowans?
fred4dallas
· 1 year ago
CAN OBAMA BE PRESIDENT?
fred4dallas
· 1 year ago
We live in a country where we can express our opinions. I am of the opinion that Barrack Husein Obama is not qualified to run this country not because of his education but because he has chosen to ignore our flag. I was in Vietnam in 1966 and 1967 in defense of our country and our flag. The same flag which is draped over the casket of our returning veterans who have given their lives so that we can enjoy the freedoms we have.I am of the opinion that I want the leader of this nation to respect our way of life the way it is. I pray to God the people think hard before casting a wrong vote. I suggest you too think hard we cannot afford a mistake.
fred4dallas
· 1 year ago
MUDMARINE
yellowtail3
· 1 year ago
Oh come on... being a lawyer is a plus, when it comes to being prez? I'll take a retired O6 over a lawyer any day. Hell, I'll take a retired stripper over a lawyer, any day. Law is a sleazy profession, having nothing to do with justice and everything to do with winning.
moreleesafer
· 1 year ago
a retired o-6 who graduated near the bottom of his class? and how is being a lawyer not relevent? um the president gets to sign bills into law....appoint judges to the supreme court, shall i go on?
being an 0-6 probably had more to do with his dad and grandpa's positions than his own accomplishments. i am not impressed. besides....anyone who calls his wife a c**t does not need to be in charge of anyone. he obviously can't control himself. you want him in charge of the military. fabulous!
SkippyFlipjack
· 1 year ago
I don't like McCain but I'm wary of this line of attack, which in some posts has the Swift Boat whiff. McCain was a war hero. As he has said, everyone has their breaking point, and his captors found his; his "anti-american propaganda" was recorded during this brief period. But he stood up to them for most of his five years in captivity, and was an inspiration to his fellow POWs. For Pete's sake, the guy was shot down, landed in a lake, broke a few bones, nearly drowned getting to shore and was immediately set upon by an angry crowd who broke his arm and stabbed him with a bayonet. He's a freakin' hero in my book. There's no way he should be (or will be) president, but he's a hero.
PeteWa
· 1 year ago
lol, your knowledge of what happened to McCain is spotty to put it mildly. McCain's "breaking point" was about two days. McCain was rescued from drowning in the lake that he crashed in, tangled up in his parachute, and needed to be saved by one of the people McCain still refers to as "gooks". My dad and uncles were over there and fought a hell of a lot longer than McCain did, and none of them talk that kind of shit. He was no inspiration to his fellow POWs, where do you hear this bullshit? Most of them hate him, and it's not hard to find out why: when McCain got back to America he worked tirelessly AGAINST any help towards finding or saving the POWs / MIAs who were still there. Funny that. Hero... what are you smoking? McCain was taken to a freaking elite hospital, and that is where he "broke" after about two days. He's no hero in my book, hell, the spineless toad couldn't and wouldn't and didn't stand by his first wife, and he didn't stand up for his second wife when Rove and Bush attacked them, instead he cowered and then followed up with groveling. Hero... lol Keating Five. Adultery. Oportunism. Breaking his own finance reform. I could go on... He's no hero. But if that's the kind of person you look up to, I guess that says more about you than maybe you wanted it to.
SkippyFlipjack
· 1 year ago
Breaking after only two days of torture. What a p*ssy, huh?
As for the Keating 5, adultery, etc. -- you're preaching to the choir. Which part of "I don't like McCain" didn't you understand? This is strictly about his POW time. You'd have been pissing yourself after 25 minutes. Were your dad and uncle POWs? Do you think that maybe McCain would have trouble avoiding using slurs when referring to the people who held him captive for five years?
This is the first time I've felt like defending McCain, but the AmericaBlog Swiftboaters are making it tough not to. No, being in a POW camp doesn't prepare you for the presidency but let's just discuss that question and not try to question each of his medals. Next we'll be like Michelle Malkin and wonder if he was torturing himself just to get a medal..
nodd
· 1 year ago
Your dad and uncles served and that makes you what, an expert on something? It makes your opinion worthless. Just like you.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
About as experienced as a lot of republicans who never served. I remember when I was 6 yrs old and we lived on Clarke Air Force base in the Phillipines. One night we had an alert. I remember my mom helping dad get ready for whatever was going to happen. Dad told mom to have us ready and also blankets and water, food to go. I remember that even know to this day. I am 60 yrs old now. The only thing I didn't have was a uniform. But I worked many year for the military and even supported them during VN war. I love our soldiers and support them now. Even though I don't want us in war.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
You said it all. Way to go. I get offended when I hear this bull shit too. My father was shot with a machine gun during WWII right up his leg. He was a hero and a lot of guys who stayed and fight day in and out. My father-in-law was also wounded WWII and VietNam.. These are real heroes. They were die hard democrats.
fred4dallas
· 1 year ago
Die hard democrats is not something to be proud of. Did they go to church with the Reverand Wright ? Why not look at the person, in other words use your brain to make a choice. I do not understand any one who does not have an open mind. A muslim Democrat, it has a ring to it huh?
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
I have an open mind. Its republicans that don't. Taking from what you say. Than what about McCain going after the religion vote. Remember when 04 McCain didn't have to many nice things to say about the religious right. Now he kissing their asses. He went after the Hegee vote. The religious people are finally awaking up to this line. Now I'm not happy that religion should take center stage. Obama is winning some of their hearts. He isn't a Muslim. Why are you here. You are trying to convert dems when we aren't going to convert to McCain.
fred4dallas
· 1 year ago
I am here to look for explinations. How many times have you changed your mind about something? I make mistakes and then try to rectify. Look past all the hoopla and the empty promises. I was in Vietnam and I was scared to death every moment I was there. Being in a forign land thousands of miles away from home is horrible, now imaging being in jail? I do not know if I could take it. I did not think I could ever really kill some one untill I had to. I remember being out on guard and thinking how I would love to see my mother and ask for her to comfort me. But is is not like that you just have to do what you need to do to stay alive. I wish I had all the answers but I too am searching. I pray God guides voters to vote for the man who can lead us out of the war and the gas crisis and the econmy and all the political corruption (like in Alabama). These are my prayers.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
I proud of you freddy. I see your point. My mom live through WWII when the bombs were dropped on Italy. She had a handicapped brother and they would take turns listening when our planes would come over and start bombing. She said war was terrible. I listened to her and her experences and my father who served 22 yrs. in the military. Who wants war. My mother came to the country and loved america. She didn't hate america. When they hung the dictator her and my grandfather had a glass of wine. I know what PST is. My father went through it. I honor your service and I love my contry. But we have faults. War isn't always the answer.
fred4dallas
· 1 year ago
God Bless you my friend. Just pray to make the right choice. Fred
fred4dallas
· 1 year ago
If your choice is a Muslim who's preacher hates America then you ae right where you need to be. ou stated he worked against helpint pows how did you get that information? Having relatives over there does not prove anything. Can you give you relatives info so that we may scrutinize them? Name and SS number should do. Length of time in a war theather mean nothing. My Friend Stan Walker USMC was in Vietnam 3 weeks when got very seriously wonded so I guess he is not a good Veteran like your relatives wounded. were you in a war?
Busboy
· 1 year ago
SkippyFlipjack is Glenn Beck. What a tangled web we weave...
SkippyFlipjack
· 1 year ago
Because I have respect for anyone who survived a POW camp, even a twit like McCain?
Americablog's groupthink is annoying sometimes...
Busboy
· 1 year ago
I like Glenn Beck
Busboy
· 1 year ago
McCain will lie to you like a ten dollar whore on saturday night. Obama's price is only slightly higher.
PullMyFinger
· 1 year ago
The old war-fag John McCain, who is a hero for getting his jet shot down by a Vietnamese peasant, then who cracked and turned traitor against his country--this war-fag McCain is even more war crazy, and even more senile, than Bush, if such a thing is possible.
Not only does McCain say that America has a "moral responsibility" to stay in Iraq and continue killing and bleeding, but he wants more enemies, because losing Iraq just isn't enough. He wants to lose more wars.
Puss-cheeks war-fag McCain probably still angry about the Russian SAM missile that shot down his jet, made him spend 6 years of his life in a little box, that made him so fucking afraid and crying that he turned against his fellow soldiers, against his country, called himself a "black criminal" over the Hanoi loudspeakers.
McCain probably spent 6 years just getting angrier and angrier, hoping one day he will come to power and get revenge on the country that kicked his pathetic ass in Vietnam.
Poor McCain does not understand that when he takes over America, there is no empire left, economy is bankrupt, army is losing and demoralized, population more and more stupid and homeless and helpless.
John McCain will accelerate the collapse of America even quicker, and it makes me very, very optimistic.
Were you in the service? 6 years of getting angry? at Vietnam? I do not think so. Any real veteran does not think the sountry had anything to do with getting him angry. Being un patriotic is the fhing that makes most people angry, If I have a choice wetween McCain and a christian turned muslim. I am afraid I will vote the the POW Patriotic man every time.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Before you say something about me and what I say where the f k do you get Obama is a Muslim? He isn't and never was. You go and vote for the mad hatter. Even republicans in the senate say they won't vote for him because he has a bad temper. THAT IS FACT. Like you said where is a certificate that says Obama was and is a Muslim. Freddie your an ass.
fred4dallas
· 1 year ago
You appear to have a bad temper your self. Why the change of name for Obama, how many times have you changed your name? Barrack Husein Obama. Besides being tortured what did McCain do??? You have no idea what you are talking about. and using foul language to express your self shows a limited vocabulary. I would not tell any one "My daddy did not let me join" it is not a real solid excuses.
Ksivid
· 1 year ago
His dad is Muslim, and you apparently have quite a temper yourself. Guess we shouldn't vote for you either.
KISSman
· 1 year ago
McCain's heroism is defined by the fact that he was held captive and tortured. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be respected for enduring such a thing, but it's another thing for people to act as if this qualifies him to be president or even dog catcher.
We'd be pretty much deemed un-American for questioning McCain's military credentials by the party who believes that they own patriotism. Of course, they managed to transform our true military hero in '04 into a lying traitor by November. God, I hate the Right.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Me too. McCain wouldn't use his military experience in 04 run.
yellowtail3
· 1 year ago
Naw... no one calling the 'questioners' un-American... just idiots for thinking a navy captain is the same as an army captain. Typical dimbulb liberals.
OriGuy
· 1 year ago
Regardless of his experience in Vietnam, he retired from the Air Force as a captain. A captain is a junior officer, four pay grades below brigadier general. In the USAF, he would be at most a flight commander. How many men would be under him? I don't know but it couldn't be more than a few dozen. He wouldn't have had any policy making or substantial administrative responsibilities like a general or an admiral. The point is that his military experience, however courageous, is simply not relevant preparation for being president.
pollkatz
· 1 year ago
McCain was in the Navy. A Navy captain is flag rank, equivalent to a full chicken colonel in the other services.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
No the Air Force wouldn't have him OriGuy. They have real pilots. He was in the Navy and flew off of carriers. It was said that the guys that had to prepare his plane hated him. Damn he was very, very cocky. He managed to lose 3 or 4 other planes because of joy riding.
skullbreathe
· 1 year ago
I've read your bullshit now on him "joyriding" and crashing three-four planes. Was it three or four? Can't count hiogher than four so you stopped there? So prove it or forever be know as "SouthernYankee who talks out of his ass."
peter_schaeffer
· 1 year ago
See my earlier post for how McCain lost five planes in the Navy. Note that only one of them was a consequence of "joyriding". However, another one was pilot error.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Ah I love freedom of speech. I can say what I want and you can't do anything about it. He was joyriding. I am not a he baby am a she. If you don't like what the facts are I can't help that. Your an ass.
fred4dallas
· 1 year ago
How does anyone know he was Joyriding? Did re get a ticket? Did you have knowledge of this information a few years ago but forgot to mention it? Prove it or stop printing what you do not know as a fact.
TangoHotel
· 1 year ago
People who have been a real part of the military community and understand how it works would not be so callus and ignorant as to defame the honorable service of another, under any circumstances. Shame on you Southern Yankee. I served for twenty years, retired from the Air Force, and currently work for the U.S. Army. I really get sick of people who should know better acting ignorant.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Get over yourself Tango. So its ok when the republicans can say anything about Kerry, or Gore military service and that is ok. Well Tango. I am really proud to be an american my husband served 21 yrs and I followed him everywhere and support him. So if you don't like what I said tuff turkey balls. I have every right to say what I want just like you do. My dad served 22 yrs and my father-in-law served 24 yrs. You have no idea where I come from. I thank god everyday my family soldiers gave us the right for our freedom of expressions. I thank you for the same freedom. Just like you have
fred4dallas
· 1 year ago
How can you say it is not relavant? Who better to understand the plight of the veterans? You pretend like the suicides taking place after returning from the war are irevalant. A pow for five years. That is true stamina, guts, if you think that is not relevant then what is changing your christan name to a muslim name? How about refusing to salute the flag is that relevant? Going to a church where the predjuce preaches "God Dams America" for twenty years before realizing it was a bad thing? Wake up and smell the coffee.
pease
· 1 year ago
And another. Navy Captain, not Air Force. Captains in the navy command aircraft carriers and squadrons. McCain didn't archive higher rank because after losing five years of his career - now being five years behind his peers - he decided to enter politics. But I would assume with the extreme wealth of knowledge on this board, everyone knows that is it common for POWs to not achieve high ranks after return, often with health problems. I suppose Obama's military experience is relevant? Oh, that's right, he doesn't have any. I suppose his "community organizer" does? Neither of these clowns are qualified.
yellowtail3
· 1 year ago
OriGuy demonstrates his ignorance. A USN captain is same level as a full-bird Col in any other service. A navy Captain commands major warships (cruisers, carriers). Squadron command is usually one level below, at CDR. McCain didn't make flag rank - it was coming, but he got out - but then, most guys never make flag rank.
nodd
· 1 year ago
OH, this guy knows it all... This is the type of voter that elects other assholes into office.. First off asshole, he was not in the Air Force he was in the NAVY... He was not a Capitan he was retired as a LT. Commander or a (Major) in the Army and Air Force. Which is only 2 pay grades below a Rear Admiral..
susanai56
· 1 year ago
You're absolutely right. But McCain will get away with this and I suspect will get the vote for President. People in America have been cowed by Bush/Cheney. Americans have become scared of their shadow and people who don't look or sound like them. It's sad, but it's true.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
The bastard will give us a Oct surprise. A lot of rednecks will support thisidot.
pease
· 1 year ago
They are both fucking idiots, you silly city liberal. Yes, we managed to nominate an idiot on both sides so now we are really screwed. Obama sure as hell doesn't offer any hope other than a Jimmy Carter style disaster.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Pease, How old are you? I don't live in the city. I live in the redneck state of TN. This country is smart enough to find other alternatives to oil. The oil companies don't want that to happen. The car companies are finally wised up to see that oil isn't the way. Republicans want to keep things the same. Dems want to move on. If we don't try other alternatives we won't have to worry about wars.
nodd
· 1 year ago
I have never heard about this website before today. I'm glad of that. I can guess by just reading a few of the comments here that none of the posters has ever served in the military. Therefore all comments about John McCain made by you are meaningless. If any of you cowards were my prisoner for just a few weeks, I would have you admitting to sucking Osama Bin Laden's dick.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
I have worked for the military for over 20 yrs. I have family members that have served over 60 yrs between them. I have travelled and lived all over the world and even have foreign relatives. This country is on the wrong track. We don't want our children and grandchildren off to war all for OIL. This is what it is really about. Funny Bush/Cheney will be out of office soon and they stand to make money off those oil deals. Send Bush's daughters, off to war. I only see that old men want to start wars and the young go off to fight and die. Enough already.
pease
· 1 year ago
And I suppose you've changed your lifestyle so you burn no oil? Grow your own food? Never use a tractor? Never drive a car? Have lobbied to drill in the US? Have lobbied for nuke power?
nodd
· 1 year ago
So you worked FOR the Military but never served. Having family members that did serve does not count for anything.. You're nothing more than another fool never having put your life on the line for anything you believe in, yet you have an opinion about someone that did.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
I went where ever my husband went. I lived overseas, and all over the united states. No I didn't serve in the military but I am willing to bet because I worked in areas that got soldiers and their families ready have been I think I can honestly say that I understand where a soldier comes from. I have worked VA hospital. We as family members had to be prepared. No I never shot a gun but you know it is something I don't want to handle. The military understands the importance of families. I always put my husband job first because the military came first. You have no idea what families give up while their soldiers are away.
calliewoo
· 1 year ago
What the hell did Obama do? Smoke crack cocaine. Does that make him qualified to be president? He and his wife only take from this country. Attacking John McCain is not poltically wise. I haven't made up my mind yet but am a military family. I am enraged when I hear stupid remarks on this website. John McCain could have used his family connections to leave early but he didn't out of principle. How many of you morons have served in the military? How many of you would have been tortured rather than leave? Leave McCain's brave record off the table. It's not a winning issue for Obama.
Ksivid
· 1 year ago
Best posted comment yet for this horrible article ... what a shame that so many folks have to desecrate McCain for what he did ... it was heroic ... does it qualify him to be president, not sure, but it certainly doesn't disqualify him ... and I've yet to see anything that Obama has done that is even remotely comparable ... he whines when something says something nasty about him .. he certainly couldn't have withstood five years as a POW ... find another issue ... or stay on this one if you want McCain elected.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Well it shows me that McCain isn't a good pilot. I read that he had 3 or 4 other planes crash because he was joy riding. Some of the officers that said had it been another officer he would have been drummed out as a pilot. He was very cocky. The only reason he stayed with that was because his papa was a respected general and his grandfather was also. He wasn't very well liked. Hell he graduated at the bottom of his class at the Naval Academy. He is Bush 3.
nodd
· 1 year ago
OH, so you heard. I guess you could take that to the bank then. Just like we all heard that OBAMA just happened to have missed every hate America sermon given by Rev. Wright.
pease
· 1 year ago
If you had the military experience you CLAIM to have you'd know he was in the Navy and that in the Navy, there aren't Generals, but Admirals.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
So f k you. I said General and a general and Admiral are the same pay grade. I never said I had experience with the navy. I am 60 yrs old and my dad served in the old army than went with the air force when they split. I was married to an army soldier for 21 years (still) and worked for the army over 20 yrs. I have been around them a very, very long time. And you pease.
fred4dallas
· 1 year ago
I wonder where you read Senator McCain crashed 3 or 4o planes? Then you point out that he comes frm a military family background like that is a BAD thing? It makes me wonder if you think before you write. I sonder do you know the senator personaly or did you hear these things in a bar some where?
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
No I don't drink. There is a new autobiography out about McCain. I don't know where you get that I hate the military. I love the military and especially the soldiers. Yes even now I support our troops. I don't support this administration because they sent troops to war in Iraq. You know a country that never shot at our country I have been around the military all my life. I wanted to join when I was young but my dad said no. Back then my dad was the boss and I respected him. You knowa lot of republicans act like they know about the military and they never ever served or even been around military families or soldiers You can say what you want but don't ever question my loyalty to the military because I love my country and the military.
peter_schaeffer
· 1 year ago
It's quite true that McCain lost five jets in military service. However, that doesn't prove he did anything wrong. However, a close reading of how he lost five planes tells a quite interesting story. For reasons that will become clear, the story is best told in reverse order.
5. On Oct. 26, 1967 John McCain was shot down over Vietnam and ended up as a POW in North Vietnam. It was his 23rd mission over North Vietnam.
4. On July 29, 1967 his plane was destroyed by a missle accidentally fired by another plane waiting to take off. He barely survived. 134 sailors died that day. There is no evidence that McCain did anything wrong. The videos of the fires and explosions are astonishing. The first fire crew was wiped out by a bomb explosion and was replaced by volunteers in seconds. Subsequent explosions wiped out the replacement firemen. Tragically, the volunteers didn’t know how to fight a carrier fire and made the situation worse.
3. In 1965, he lost a plane flying home from the Army-Navy game due to mechanical failure. This was very common at the time. I once met a Vietnam pilot who lost a Phantom due to oil pressure failure. I asked what the consequences were. He said that his commanding officer was upset for 10 minutes and he had to fill out a form.
2. He lost a plane after hitting power line over the Iberian Peninsula. Presumably pilot era.
1. As a student pilot he lost a plane in Corpus Christi bay while trying to land.
The last 3 losses do not reflect adversely on John McCain. How about the first two? I would question whether any aviator whose name wasn’t McCain would have survived losing a plane as a student and then hitting power lines.
OBAMA is nothing more than a MARXIST. Anyone thinking about voting for him will get what they deserve. Higher taxes and more government interference in their daily lives. You want an inexperienced fool running our country just because he talks a good game. You would not even let him run a fortune 500 company if you held stock in that company and you want him to run the country.
michaelt
· 1 year ago
at least he can talk a good game. if i'm going to bullshitted i'd really appreciate a better bullshitter than the transparent hack we got now.
tinylitess
· 1 year ago
michaelt? Hows college going?
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
Well bring him on. This country needs to move forward.
ClintonHater
· 1 year ago
Running a corporation is different than running the country. Bush was our first MBA president and look how that turned out.
tinylitess
· 1 year ago
"About Me John Aravosis is a Washington DC-based writer and political expert, specializing in using the Internet for politics. John has a joint law degree and masters in foreign service from Georgetown"
But he’s still a complete idiot. How does that happen?
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
John is Great.
dawnsblood
· 1 year ago
The man who wrote this is not great, he is an idiot. You can attack McCain on a lot of things but not the fact that he suffered solely because he fought in service of his country. He served, ran a fighter wing and was given an honorable discharge. It was a stupid question. Lets get back to the issues.
SouthernYankee
· 1 year ago
I never said he wasn't a hero. My heros were my own family members that were wounded during the WWII came back and stay in the military and retired honorable. Am sure McCain stay in a prison camp was very difficult for him. I don't blame him or anyone for his breaking point. No one knows what that is like until they are in it. All am saying is why do republicans alway question democrat soldiers loyalty to our country.
tinylitess
· 1 year ago
John is Great?
Great what? Great Idiot ? A great communits ? A great Moron?
TangoHotel
· 1 year ago
I believe you are right. John McCaine is a great American.
michaelt
· 1 year ago
from what i've read it sounds like mccain was like bush if bush would have actually done real time in the service. he was a constant fuck-up, never accountable and when he got captured he was given special treatment because of his daddy. that's the second to last guy i want as president. guess who's first?
tinylitess
· 1 year ago
MICHAEIT What college are you currently at?
tinylitess
· 1 year ago
MICHAEIT? Lots of hot chick on your campus?
kwc10
· 1 year ago
McCain was personally responsible for the deadliest fire in the history of the US Navy.
and you got this all from ... WAYNE MADSEN/WAYNE MADSEN REPORT and he got it from some sailor who was supposed to be on board that ship, on that day. Come on!! Anyone serving any time in the military knows the captain is responsible for everything on board his ship and some LT. Commander has NOTHING to do with policy aboard a ship. The Dept. of the Navy or the Pentagon sent the 1000.lb bombs to that ship and the Captain had the final say to use them or not.
tinylitess
· 1 year ago
HOW ABOUT A LITTLE WATERBOARDING FOR THIS CLOWN
OliverMVa
· 1 year ago
""what exactly is McCain's military experience that prepares him for being commander in chief?""
Yes, and what exactly is Obama's ???? That is easy. He has none.
tommytoonz
· 1 year ago
Obama isn't claiming experience is his reason for being President. McCain has said his military experience is what's made him a viable Presidential candidate. He's holding his military experience as evidence of his ability to lead and as the basis of his platform for President so it's a very legitimate issue to question.
jr
· 1 year ago
McCain was a shitty pilot that left his wife which makes him a hero to the beltway bumpkins
nodd
· 1 year ago
Since divorce happens in about 55% of marriages in the USA, McCain, is in the majority. No proof of him as a bad pilot, only your opinion.
tommytoonz
· 1 year ago
The guy crashed 3 planes, none of those during live combat operations.
ThomasPaineful
· 1 year ago
Sir, I would like to thank you for energizing me as a voter and an American. Tired of Bush, feeling unrepresented as a fiscal conservative and social moderate, I was ready to sit idle by as Obama cruised into the head seat. But after watching you and your ilk on this blog discredit a man who eschewed his chance to use his father's military standing to get a reprieve from torture, who bravely stood with his men while undergoing unbelievable pain and suffering, I will stand down no longer. I just became one helluva motivated voter. I'll do all I can to support McCain from this day forward. You, sir, are in every sense an entitled a$$hole.
cspring
· 1 year ago
Are you for real? There is a real world out there. Use your head.
ThomasPaineful
· 1 year ago
You want to argue the merits of these candidates based on their policies, voting records and vision for America, fine. You want to choose Obama based on that, great. If he wins, I honestly hope he ends up being a hell of a President. But you cannot call McCain's character into question. We as Americans have to draw the line on this kind of thing somewhere. (And by the way, don't pin the Swift Boat bullshit on "the right" - there were plenty of people just like me who thought that was crap from day one and chose not to vote for Kerry because he simply doesn't share our politics.
nightpunkster05
· 1 year ago
You stupid peices of crap. Its the honorable service of people like Joh McCain that give little turds like you the right to even live. If I ever met one of you on the street I would punch you. How dare you even question the bravery sacrifice and courage of such an honarble man.
Your turning your stupid liberal hatred of conservatives into a moronic rant against honorable men like McCain. There doesnt seem to be any point in talkign any sense into any of you, its like trying to talk sense to a rat. Cant be done.
Get a life losers!!!!
SeattleTom
· 1 year ago
LOL, you're more than just an "internet tough guy" for making a cowardly threat of violence, you are delusional enough to state that somehow we owe our lives to the likes of John McCain. As a vet all I have to say is FAIL.
Your comments are a disservice to yourself and you come off as mentally unstable. Got Prozac?
nightpunkster05
· 1 year ago
I love how all you can do is make some vague and unrelated comment of "got prozac?" or "Your and internet tough guy".
Hmm, very creative. Instead why not try to sound like someone intelligent and understand that its the honarble service of people like McCain that make this country great, and give morons like yourself the ability to freely post your hipiie-communist-drivel.
SeattleTom
· 1 year ago
ROFL, if you're going to quote me then quote me correctly, that way you wont look like such a moron...I mean come on there genius, the words are right above. Your not even trying.
Thanks for pointing out that it is honorable veterens like me that make this country great. I'd also like to thank you for giving me a good laugh, unfortunately at your expense. It's a great way to start a day!
nightpunkster05
· 1 year ago
Listen fighting goblins and black knights in your head while you wear your tinfoil hat does not qualify you as a veteran. While I thank you for keeping our imaginations safe, Unfortunatley it wont make America safe. Though I do beleive Obama as well thinks that if the land of "make-beleive" is safe, so is America.
Buddy, you are so far off the deep-end its actually quite scary. Btw, I bet your one of those morons that also beleive the US was somehow behind the 9/11 attacks eh? That big of a moron? am I correct on that?
SeattleTom
· 1 year ago
LOL again, I served with the 5/15th infantry, 3rd ID and A trp 1/7cav, 1st Cav as an infantryman (MOS 11c) in the army. Have you served your country there hero?
Damn man, look at your posts...you're a completely unstable nutball.
vkobaya
· 1 year ago
Frankly, looking at the comments here from the right wing is very discouraging. It is said that the coming election will be a massive landslide for the Democrats. Right now, polls show that Obama may also win by a massive amount. Frankly, both Obama and the Democrats are preferable only because they aren't Republicans, but I am hoping for that massive landslide for Obama and the Democrats just because they don't hold the hateful, bigoted opinion of Obama held by those arguing here that Obama is a Muslim who listened to 20 years of Christian pastor's hate America sermons. BTW, that Christian pastor volunteered and served in our military with distinction. Given the bigotry on the Right, sometimes I get the feeling that Obama being African American is a sufficient victory. Sigh! Truth is that Obama is far from an ideal progressive, liberal candidate for president as he is owned body and soul by the corporations and is nearly as ideologically as right wing as the Republicans.
Also must protest the name calling here. Neither Obama nor McCain is a fag. In fact, using that as a pejorative against McCain here is pathetic as I've posted before considering that most members here are gay. It is more a measure of our own self hatred than any truism about McCain. As for calling Obama a fag [sigh!], that is just dispicable right wing code for calling him a N----. When it comes down to it, most of the objection to Obama is pathetically racist, though my personal objection is that he is far, far too right wing for my taste. Obama is clearly the most intelligent, articulate, capable person to run for president in a long, long, long time. Look how he far outclassed Bill Clinton who was a Rhodes Scholar.
libcall
· 1 year ago
I am not a racist and my objections to your candidate are based on his lack of experience on international affairs and his lack of leadership shown in not authoring a single piece of major legislation.
I think he can be best described as a term used a few years ago in describing software. Products that were touted as the answer to everyone's problem but when it came time to deliver the product it was not there. The term is vaporware and I think it aptly describes your candidate's campaign.
cavman
· 1 year ago
Words can't describe how messed up of an individual you are. Let's get a few things straight. No one is immune to enemy propaganda tactics. There are people who's careers are based entirely on exploiting Americans for propaganda, and that was absolutely the case in Vietnam. Soldiers are taught how to "bounce back" after falling victim to the enemy's propaganda because we know it's going to happen one way or the other. Mistakes are made, the enemy can outsmart you, you might be tortured past your breaking point.
Let's also remember that Sen. McCain refused an early release because there were men that had been there longer than him, and who were more severely injured. Don't forget too that when he was initially captured, he was so badly injured the enemy had literally left him to die. Not something I would call special treatment because of who his "daddy" was.
Another truth you are leaving out is that after the fire on the Forestal, McCain volunteered to join another carrier to finish his tour, which led to his captivity, instead of staying with the Forestal on its way home for repairs. That, for someone like you who would have no clue what it is, is called selfless service. It involves sacrifice as well as mental and physical toughness. That's gained by pushing yourself harder, and striving towards things greater than yourself, not by sitting in your underwear writing a cowardly blog. And that's also exactly what makes John McCain qualified to be our Commander in Chief.
lark83
· 1 year ago
I agree with everything you said except for the last sentence. Good Vietnam service doesn't make one automatically qualified to be president. For example, McCain constantly gets the Sunnis and the Shiites all mixed up, saying that Shiite Iran is helping Sunni Al Queda.
reesadietz
· 1 year ago
Well written!!
Smarmy
· 1 year ago
Yikes. All the republicans' feathers were ruffled by John's commentary! McCain has MADE A WHOLE CAREER OUT OF HIS TORTURE. Quite frankly, enough is enough. More criterion is needed to be president. And he's just too old for the job.
nodd
· 1 year ago
And you Dem's get all bent out of shape when someone mentions that OBAMA is nothing more than TALK. We all know that talk is cheap and so is he. He's a MARXIST and that is all he will ever be.
nightpunkster05
· 1 year ago
Even if he does over use it. he still is far more qualified than Body Oder. (BO....Barack Obama, for those wit-challanged). I mean really what's BO's experience? Hey I spent 2 weeks backpacking across Europe 2 summers ago, Im about just as qualified as BO is.
rocksaltdc
· 1 year ago
You are right...more criterion is needed to be president...more criterion than say being a "community organizer" and giving a speech at the DNC...oh thats right, he wrote a couple books about himself...then he became a senator and began running for President....wow if thats not a track record which qualifies someone to lead the free world i don't know what is...
Smarmy
· 1 year ago
See: Democrat with military background assails McCain's credentials - International Herald Tribune. Wesley Clarke agrees with Aravosis.
TangoHotel
· 1 year ago
Gen. Wesley Clark, another failed Democratic candidate for public office. I guess desperate folks look for any way to keep their names in the headlines.
Potfry
· 1 year ago
Dear sweet John. Did you personally choose your smug profile picture? I imagine you with a variety of photos spread out, trying to decide which one conveys that wonderful blend of vision and brilliance. And, of course, the hand on the chin.
Everyone knew that, eventually, someone would bring up McCain's war record in a negative way. It was just a question of which idiot Democratic lackey was going to charge the hill in a desperate attempt to garner fame and notoriety.
The fact that John McCain voted to allow G.W. (another example of America's finest military men) the right to torture (mostly innocent) detainees after he himself was once tortured tells me that John McCain is unfit to be President based on his lack of integrity. If McCain can run for President so can Lynndie England...I bet she knows the difference between Sunni and Shiite.
Potfry
· 1 year ago
How many detainees were tortured, Dula? You said they were mostly innocent, so you must know.
dula
· 1 year ago
Over 75% are innocent people who are later released without charges, Asshole!
dula
· 1 year ago
...One would be too many for a Nation that supposedly holds FREEDOM in the highest regard.
Potfry
· 1 year ago
do you have evidence of this? And there's really no reason to call names.
Rufus
· 1 year ago
McCain has the misfortune to be shot down and captured. Who among us would be better or worse as a POW.
Why don't we just debate issues and call a time out for the period 1967-1973?
And, by the way, I am amazed at the lack of knowledge about our military. But, guess you have to had been there, done that.
Obama/Rufus 2008!
EricArthurBlair
· 1 year ago
Although I can't say that I have thoroughly read each and every word of each and every comment on this page, one thing that nobody so far seems to have seen fit to point out is that "Commander-In-Chief" is not the president's sole title, nor is it his sole responsibility. In time of REAL war, the president is Commander-In-Chief of the military, not the civilian population (which, in case you haven't noticed, vastly outnumbers the military).
Bush is more concerned with playing toy soldier than he is in fulfilling his Constitutional duties, which, in case some of you have forgotten, requires that he ensure that the government "...establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,"
That preamble definitely shows that the government's domestic responsibilities outnumber its military; what point is there in defending a country in chaos? For the last seven years, "domestic Tranquility" and "general Welfare" have been ignored and the "Blessings of Liberty" have been trampled underfoot. Bush II's administration has utterly failed to fulfill the oath he swore on 20 January 2001 and repeated four years later, to uphold and defend the Constitution.
I consider myself a member of the last generation that grew up with the notion that the people elected to lead this country were honorable and worthy of our trust, a notion that began to fade in 1964 and died in 1973. Obama may not be a perfect candidate (and I don't, for a minute, believe any of the internet lies about him), but at least with him I feel at least an illusion of hope and a hint of better days to come.
TangoHotel
· 1 year ago
I believe "illusion" is a very accurate term for Obama. Well done.
ThomasPaineful
· 1 year ago
I love the left's "his military experience doesn't qualify him to be the President" angle. Well, no, by itself, it doesn't. But the valor and guts he showed in captivity does demonstrate great character, and I'd like for my President to have just that. McCain may or may not be a great candidate, but attacks on his military experience are ridiculous. I'm telling you right now, if the left continues this, they're going to wake up a conservative electorate that is more than willing to punish the Republicans by staying at home in November. Continued ridiculousness like Arovosis' post will piss people off enough to get out and vote. If I'm Obama, I get out in front of this right away and tell Americans that McCain is a war hero, end of story, but that he (BHO) still feels "I'm the best candidate for the role." The Daily Kos may not like the strategy, but Middle America would.
devis1
· 1 year ago
Oh this is funny. Gotta love Blowback. All these supposed former military idjuts here defending the honor of Mr. Magoo. Bush and Rove did such a fine job of finding all the cretins they could back in 2000 to slime Mr. Magoo's miltary service. Now it's all out there for 2008!!!
TangoHotel
· 1 year ago
Ignorance is really bliss for you, isn't it?
rocksaltdc
· 1 year ago
Great job John...you made a name for yourself by betraying the very men and women who have dedicated their lives to protecting you and your right to post such nonsense. How proud you must make your family by embarrassing yourself with such an obviously desperate attempt at self-promotion over the web. Answer this question, what have you ever really done for this country beside sit safely behind a keyboard in a dim room spouting radical a.k. "ridiculous" commentary, I mean really, are you a community organizer as well? Maybe you could better our country by writing a book about yourself...actually with our automotive industry in such a financial quandary I am sure they are looking for every opportunity to save cost, maybe you could be a volunteer crash test dummy. It would probably be about as mentally trying as the ridiculous question you have posted.
reesadietz
· 1 year ago
As far as I'm concerned until you have served in the military, you don't need to open your mouth to criticize it or anyone in it. And until you have been a POW keep your mouth closed about anyone who has been and their actions while in captivity. As far as I can see McCain is multiple times more qualified to run a country than Obama who does absolutely nothing but mud sling ALL his opponents. He can't stand on his own, he has to beat down the competition and change the focus to their flaws. God help us all if that man is elected. Canada is starting to look better every day...
MG1
· 1 year ago
Serving in the military and being a POW does not qualify anyone, per se, to be president. Millions have served in the military and tens of thousands have been POWs. John McCain is just one of many. Because of a well-connected father, he built his experience into something "sacred" and, for some ridiculous reason, something that qualifies him to be president. He graduated at the bottom of his class. Not exactly the brightest bulb. He is a manipulator and an opportunist, has been all his life. For example, how did he end up with 28 medals for that incident. Could it have to do with his daddy perhaps? He saw 20 hours of combat. 20 hours! So that's one medal for every fraction of an hour. Did his fellow POWs get 28 medals? doubt it. FYI: they hate his guts. Find one camp mate who respects him. Why hasn't McCain released his military record, as Kerry did, if he is so proud of it? Why does he refuse to do so?
reesadietz
· 1 year ago
It's okay I can see you are a Democrat. Move on.
obscure323
· 1 year ago
I've served in the military for the past 8 years. I'm an Iraq vet and in my opinion being a POW isnot something to be proud of. It is not honorable. It means you got caught. The honorable part is SURVIVING the POW experience. A vet/POW that truly deserves honor for his experience would be the one who does not go out of his way to make light like his experience made him a hero. The true men of honor hold that experience deep inside, because they know it is not a marketing tool. John McCain is NO HERO. He saved no lives, he did nothing great for our country. He got caught. Flat out.
CarScott
· 1 year ago
Are you kidding? Any pilot who is shot out of the sky over enemy territory and survives deserves our respect. Any soldier or aviator captured, with broken limbs and multiple broken bones, deserves our respect. He didn't get "caught" - he was captured. There is a difference. John McCain helped preserve the lives of many men in the POW camp - just as many of those helped him preserve his life. Only the men who served with him during those 5 years knows what effect he had on them, whether he helped save their lives. Had you ever been a POW under threat of inury or death you would better understand the value of effective leadership in the time of crisis. But it is unfair to minimize his, and any other POWs, contribution to the welfare of their fellow POWs. For the record, I've never heard or read any time where John McCain has called himself a hero. This is a label that others have applied to him. Others on both sides of the debate, I might add.
reesadietz
· 1 year ago
I can see you are a Democrat. Move on. Go praise Obama for NOTHING!!
EricArthurBlair
· 1 year ago
I was unaware that military service is a requirement to exercising the rights that belong to each and every US Citizen by birthright. What I see now is an armed forces that is being required to lower its standards to attract recruits of questionable qualifications and character because beople who have a sense of justice don't think that the Neocons' war is worth fighting.
You might be better off going to Switzerland instead of Canada, since military service is compulsory there.
MG1
· 1 year ago
OK, lets see ALL of McCains military record. He refuses to release it. Wonder why? If he is running on his military record, we have a right to know.
reesadietz
· 1 year ago
I believe it would be the government who holds his military records, not the man himself. Let's see Obama's...oh wait, he doesn't have one!!!
nathanp8
· 1 year ago
You're kidding, right? The Left's new strategy, attack McCain's military record? There are many things you can criticize about the man's political record, but his military record?
Give me a break!
paxman
· 1 year ago
McSame got shot down four times. As a direct result of his hot dogging it, his plane blew up on the USS Forrestal and caused the death of 138 US sailors. After he was shot down the last time he spent seven years as a POW, selling out our soldiers and making Tokyo Rose style propaganda films. Tell me what in this pathetic record makes this pampered psychopath suitable for a position of leadership? McSame is clearly suffering from a terrible case of Post Traumatic Stess and shouldn't be allowed near anything remotely dangerous. Vote Obama and make America proud again.
OleHippieChick
· 1 year ago
The Manchurian candidate should be kept as far away as possible from higher office.
oldvets
· 1 year ago
Paxman, I hope you are on to something because I don't much like McCain and want Obama to win the election, but I must tell you some of the rumors really seem over the top. Still, this blog and the questions raised by General Clark are very legitimate and deserve a serious response. The Swiftboaters who are posting here for McCain are obviously trying to kill the debate. Fuck them!
rekoj
· 1 year ago
Paxman...you really should shut your mouth. It's a shame that people like Sen. McCain, and the rest of our armed servicemen and women, fight for this country and give their lives, just so chicken shit liberal left wing pussies like you sit behind a keyboard and talk about shit that's coming out of your ass. Selling our soldiers out? You really are a piece of shit! You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. nor does anyone else who sympathizes and agrees with this blog. We're all fucked if OBAMA BIN LADEN is elected president.
mirth
· 1 year ago
Oh that's deep, mon.
TangoHotel
· 1 year ago
Well John, Aside from being one of the most ignorant assholes I ever read, what qualifies you to comment on anything? I'd much rather rely on Senator McCain's military experience to guide our strategic planning and foreign policy than Obamma's total lack of any military experience.
It's always ashame when someone who has nothing to say just passes out BS disparaging remarks. Oh, I guess I just did that to you, how's it feel there John boy?
oldvets
· 1 year ago
Tango, you too have a nasty side, pity.
Psyche
· 1 year ago
Wow! For a liberal blog, this topic sure flushed out the right wingers and McCain fans. Haven't seen this concentration thus far. Clearly a sensitive issue that the Right doesn't want discussed. I wonder how many of the commenters are responding to McCain's directive to his supporters to go out and troll on the liberal blogs. This is going to be interesting.
boxstriker
· 1 year ago
Yeah, we tend to stand up and fight for the truth.... we don't sit here and type blogs that are lies and Hateful! You liberals are going to be calling John McCain a Traitor next! That is how F^*ked up! you sickos are! Oh- Please remind me why you are voting for Obama? What has he accomplished to be worthy of White House? Hummm.... Let's see, Oh... miss 139 votes in the senate in 2 years! (Great accomplishment there) 2) Goes to the same church for 20 years and get married by and is spiritually led by REV. JEREMIAH WRIGHT! ANOTHER INSIGHT TO JUDGMENT BY OBAMA! 3) Double capital gains taxes taking them up to 28% from 15% where they are now! (FOR YOU LIBERALS OUT THERE, THIS MONEY HAS ALREADY BEEN TAXED BY THE GOVERNMENT - check your pay stub- it is called Income Tax. Oh but that is right, most liberals here make under $45,000 and at this limit you don't pay any Income Tax ! You can thank George Bush for that one, oh but that must be a tax break for the rich! Every Liberal here has no clue as to what Obama is going to do to this country if he gets elected! I do... Ruin it!!!
Psyche
· 1 year ago
My, my! The trolls are out in force today... and betraying their usual disregard for and ignorance of the facts. If you were in the habit of visiting this blog you would realize that liberal bloggers aren't poor... and they're even literate. If you don't like what you see here, you don't have to visit. And if you think your rants are going to change minds here, I suspect you're wasting your time.
CarScott
· 1 year ago
Psyche, if we didn't respond then you'd wrongly assume that our silence means agreement. But when we do reply you accuse us of working under some directive to suppress information. It's most likely that we are individuals who believe in our candidate, his record, ability, and future presidency.
Psyche
· 1 year ago
I hope you're not so naive as to assume we're unaware of how you (and the McCain campaign) feel about this issue. The corporate media is awash in it. The bashing that Clark has taken today is totally out of proportion to what he actually said. I'm sure his comments stung though, especially coming from someone who is a documented war hero himself, and, in addition, went on to have a long and distinguished career in service to his country.
OleHippieChick
· 1 year ago
Man, who let the frikkin DOGS in? Yeah, we really really need McAincient as prez - another low-Q, fifth-from-the-bottom of his class, dingdong with anger management problems. I'd sure like to have a Geritol with HIM, not.
TangoHotel
· 1 year ago
Why don't you go smoke your bra and let the adults run the country?
oldvets
· 1 year ago
Tango, thanks. I don't have any idea what you are saying about a bra but it is quite funny.
OleHippieChick
· 1 year ago
Oooh, Mr. Funny! Mr. Suggestion! Your "adults" have run us into the ground, rodent.
TangoHotel
· 1 year ago
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE
Took you a while to get that one didn't it. But it's always interesting to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person. Peace :-))
OleHippieChick
· 1 year ago
I don't hang around online all day like you do, panting and slobbering for replies.
SkippyFlipjack
· 1 year ago
It's funny thinking about the ruckus while watching that Wes Clark video -- everything he says is spot-on, and the excerpted quotes take him slightly out of context. For example, he's been quoted as saying "I don’t think getting in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to become president." Which is true but might be seen as a bit dismissive -- except that he also says that "[McCain] was a hero to me", says that he honors his service and, most importantly, he was responding directly to an explicit question.
Bob Schieffer says "I have to say, Barack Obama has not had any of those [military policy-making] experiences either, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down," prompting Clark to respond with the obvious retort: "I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president." Schieffer interrupts with incredulity, "Really?" which makes one wonder what else Schieffer thinks are qualifications for the job.
mirth
· 1 year ago
One thing we learn from this entertaining thread is that the NASCAR crowd is getting all nervous about their "war hero's" vulnerabilities. Trouble is that AMERICAblog has a large international readership and these idgit rightwingers make us appear stupider than we actually are. They are a minority! Honest!
But amuzin'.
TangoHotel
· 1 year ago
Mirth, I don't believe you all need a lot of help "appearing stupider". Sometimes the truth just shows.
ripskull
· 1 year ago
Wrong Mirth. You really are the minority. The rest of the world is starting to realize their folly and is starting to go conservative again. Germany, France, Canada, etc. are all examples of liberal governments who were recently thrown out in favor of conservative governments. America is the only recent country that comes to mind that is starting to lean liberal. Unfortunately, our "intelligentsia" was too quick to jump on board the liberal bandwagon and begin tearing down our own government before it was realized that the government of these countries really didn't speak for their people. C'mon... Chirac??? What a spineless idiot. Would you ever worry... lose an ounce of sleep if Chirac told you to do something and you didn't do it? Its like the librarian warning you that if you don't be quiet, a demerit is going to go on your permanent record. Ooohhhhh!
bull75
· 1 year ago
Dearest Mirth, Something you and so many like you simply do not seem to understand or want to understand...the rest of the world, the "international readers"...they are human, so therefore are hardwired to resent something or someone that is innately better than they are.America has ALWAYS been resented, hated and maligned for being, well, America. I cannot honestly say that I give a damn about them, or the "civilians" that McCain may have killed during bombing missions 40 yrs ago,or the civilians in Iraq or anywhere else...WAR is ugly, there is NO SUCH THING as a "humane war". A war WON is the only war worth fighting.Get used to it. If you do not have the balls to go and serve and take orders from your superiors and do what you were sent to do, even under the most restrictive and ill conceived "rules of engagement" ever utilized, you relinquish your right to question others who do. For the vets who have lost their center, you may have served, but to compare Mccain's military backround to Obama's, wow, thats a quite a quiet moment, no? How does Obama's complete lack of ANY military backround or supervisory postions qualify him to run the US? Honestly? What is it you all see in him that you did not see in Hillary or McCain or Romney, or any other earlier candidate? As a side note, yes, the hub bub over Shelley's stoopid comments was overblown and unnecessary, as is your hysterical ranting that McCain's comments are relevant ANOTHER 40 years later. Even if what they each said was true, as it sounded....so what? Many of us do not appreciate the huge GIFT being an American is...often times until we travel to other parts of the world and see how our lives, our standards of living, our true freedoms, are so much better , even our "poor" live like kings, compared to what REAL poverty is. And REAL restricted freedoms are. Apparently Michelle needs to go get fitted for a burka or spend some time in a lower African nation as a poor woman and then see how proud she is of the USA. Bet her proud-O- meter goes up astronomically. No one here has ever tried to circumcise her daughters, correct? It is a classic example of Mazlow's theory of the hierarchy of needs...the fewer "required" needs one has to worry about, the more time one has to spend worrying over the more philosophical needs..hence the "elitist" labels. Stop throwing shit against the walls people and argue definable, tangible, relevant topics. THATS when you will not be considered mouth breathing turds.
thompaine
· 1 year ago
Excellent question John. You are spot on. I have been asking the same question.
John McCain keeps touting his "war experience" but lets face it the vast majority of his war experience consists of sitting in a cell.
John McCain is a victim of torture, and he has my sympathy, but that doesn't mean I want him to be my President.
gmedia
· 1 year ago
As someone who is a conservative and would prefer another candidate besides McCain due to policy differences, with that said, the idea that you could question the character building of an experience like that is mind boggling. I would prefer that experience to someone like Obama who touts in his first major ad as his experience as a "community organizer" whatever that is. As Laura Ingraham said, that sounds like the kind of job that does not even sound like a real job. Good grief.
thompaine
· 1 year ago
You would prefer a victim of torture who is suffering from untreated PTSD over a Constitutional law professor?
Yup, you are a conservative.
TangoHotel
· 1 year ago
I'd be willing to watch Obama sit in a cell for the next few years just so we can give him some relevant experience. Then maybe you all can brag about his "experience", because right now there's just not a lot to talk about.
thompaine
· 1 year ago
It is sad that you actually think sitting in a cell is relevant experience for a President of the United States.
TangoHotel
· 1 year ago
It's about as relevant as ANYTHING Obama has ever done.
celticladyinaz
· 1 year ago
John, I think you're asking a very good question that many in the public would like to ask but are afraid. According to military records John McCain was a lousy pilot, destroying a total of 5 airplanes during his career (most of them domestically and not in Vietnam). For most pilots, boat captains, etc the destruction of their vessel is a career ender...but not for John McCain. Because of his families distinguished military history, he was allowed to stay at his high rank and to fly again. On a related point, McCain reps have been floating that he was up for promotion to Admiral which he turned down just before running for the Senate the first time. This has been proven to be false, a propaganda story. Truth is, the fact that he was a prisoner of war and that he came from such a long line of admirals was the only reason he was able to maintain his rank at all and they never considered him for admiral. On the issue of the propaganda tape he made while prisoner of the North Vietnamese, I can't judge him on that. I've never been subjected to torture so I can't say what I would or wouldn't do under such circumstances.
MFanelli
· 1 year ago
Yea, right. I'm sure you, celtic lady in Arizona, have been subject to the same tortures as a vet like Sen. McCain. However, as improbable as that is, why don't you open up your story of torture for us to read as McCain has? I know I'm interested. While you're at it could you come up with an answer to how being in the military and refusing to allow preferential treatment in a POW camp over those soldiers who served there longer doesn't speak volumes about a man's character and fortitude. The average person would sell out at the first opprotunity if I were to use my experience dealing with them. Then again, we're not dealing with averages here. These are soldiers. Show some respect.
celticladyinaz
· 1 year ago
MFanelli, You need to read my posting better....I said I have NOT been subjected to torture, so I couldn't be a judge of his behavior on that point. In regards to respect, you are missing the point ENTIRELY. I show all soldier's respect. It doesn't, however give them an automatic, critical proof shield which is what people like you want it to be. If McCain touts his military experience as being suitable for the role of President, then by all means lets take an objective look at his record. Bottom of his class at the academy, crashed 5 planes (some of them not in combat, on US soil), lackluster leadership and failure to be promoted to admiral.....His finest moment was when he did refuse to be released out of turn in Vietnam. Also, why does someone not having been in the military mean they don't have any character? And just because someone was in the military doesn't mean they do have character or are a good person. Just ask the MP's.....PS I was in the US Army, so show some respect to me.
boxstriker
· 1 year ago
My Liberal buddy wrote this about the hysterics over Barack Hussain Obama. " An increasing clamor is now beginning to resonate throughout media circles with regards to how “race” has shaped the current democratic primary. Too late, maybe, but never the less these voices should be heard.
The obvious question in evaluating whether race has been a factor would be to ask the simple question: would Senator Obama be leading the popular vote by 3% (by just 300,000 votes of 21 million cast) and the overall delegate count by 69, if it were not for racial preference. The answer, unequivocally, is no. Admittedly, there are many non racial factors contributing to the current cumulative results for the candidates, however it is undeniable, given how close this primary is, that race is the tipping point in Obama’s favor.
Among the many racial biases interjected into this selection process in Senator Obama’s favor, by far, the most obvious is a simple assessment of the African American vote. With African Americans making up approximately 10% of the primary vote and going for Obama better than 80% it is simple arithmetic that tells us the narrow lead that he cautiously enjoys, would not exist, had African Americans not favored him so heavily. Should greater society stand by and not question this racial bias that is in no way even close to other voting blocks, or should they scream foul that this vote represents, in effect, reverse discrimination. Of course, political correctness tells us not to go there, so many think it, but will never say it. (Oprah claimed that her support of the senator had nothing to do with his ethnicity – can Americans takes her seriously since this is her first support of a candidate in any race; and now Lewis Farrakhan supports Senator Obama – by no means an independent nonracial backing)
Much harder to measure, but unquestionably a part of Senator Obama’s success is a simple lack of willingness on the part of various prescient forces to criticize anything “Barack” for fear of appearing racist. Media surveys and many pundits now acknowledge he has been given a “free ride” and hit with “velvet gloves” especially when honestly compared to the hard hitting attacks from all angles that Senator Clinton has had to endure day in and day out, throughout her campaign. Of course there are other forces at play but certainly politicians, pundits, networks, and even super delegates are swayed by this gravitational pull that seems to demand the need for political correctness in the spirit of an ever increasing racially “affirmative” response.
Senator Obama, his campaign and many surrogates are fond of comparing him to President John F Kennedy, one of the youngest and most vibrant presidents in America’s history. The Kennedy comparison is grossly suspect, yet the press espouses it without remorse …President Kennedy, a decorated war hero, a Pulitzer price winner before his presidency (the only president to ever win a Pulitzer) who spent six years in the national house of representatives and four years as a senator before being elected obviously ranks superior to Senator Obama’s limited experience of two years in the senate and eight years as a state senator from a lone Illinois district.
Many non-African Americans have encountered reverse discrimination in one form or another either directly or through someone they know. Many have been past by for entrance to college, for jobs or promotions or for business contracts that gave preference to minorities, who in many cases were not as well qualified. It now appears that Americans are on the verge of ceding the country’s presidency to an African American based as much on the same preferential treatment that permeates many parts of society i.e. that Barak Obama may not be the best qualified but he is special because he is the first “African American” politician to come along with his unique skill sets and background and therefore should get a pass on his credentials namely a lack of foreign policy and executive experience along with a sparse legislative record and a hollow campaign promise of “change”. All things being equal would a white candidate with the exact same credentials’ be leading this race today – of course not.
Glenn Fillis, is a senior columnist and fellow with the New American Enterprise Institute."
oldvets
· 1 year ago
Such nonsense! The second paragraph signals clearly that this will be another attempt by our friends at the AEI to stand truth on its head. The fact that Obama is leading by 3% in some poll does not even slightly suggest that race is working in his favor. It is more reasonable to suppose that if he were white his lead would be much greater.
tinylitess
· 1 year ago
I though Obama was above this type of stuff. Why are you not following his lead?
tellme2
· 1 year ago
Name...rank...serial number...that crap went out with Vietnam anyway...even the military doesn't expect it anymore...that's what i learned in SERE school anyway...faulting him for what he did under extreme conditions is a bunch of crap too...General Clark's comment made me piss my pants i laughed so hard...he's dead on...McCain flew some missions...got shot down...spent time in prison...he's truly an "American Hero", being he did what he was trained to do...no more...no less...Can't help wondering why if we're truly at war with terror...what's taking so long??? I'm from Ohio originally...there was a certain general from Ohio that had a reputation for extreme violence. When did war become a business model??? Somebody's making a ton of $$$ of this...I suspect it's the magnetic car ribbon makers...
GoMobile
· 1 year ago
The comments on both side here are just flat out scary. Is this representative of what America has become?
Never heard of this site until a few minutes ago, but I'd like to just add this;
Do we, as regular, run-of-the-mill citizens really and truly know what our government does behind closed doors? Do we voting citizens know the whole truth about the politicians and government agencies? Or do we just know what the government and the media wants us to believe? I'm certainly not one of those 'conspiricy theorists', so as an idealistic American I'd like to believe that the government tries to 'do the right thing' for the average citizen, but in my heart unfortunately, I feel the government leans towards appeasing themselves, corporations, lobbyists and whom ever they might be trying to 'do a favor' for. It's sad that we the people have to feel this way about our government. I can't trust any one point of view in either extreme direction. Extremists from any party are usually always wrong and I find them deplorable. Doesn't anybody REALLY have an open mind anymore? Or are we all just so blind in favor of our party's candidate and point of view that we shut down and can't listen to any opposing point of view? (and better yet, we feel we must call that point of view completely idiotic and also call that person names.... just sad.)
Unless one is at or near the highest government level in the White House, we'll never really what goes on in this country. (although there appears to be many people here who seem to think that they know, and with strong conviction I might add) The only thing we can say with certainty is this; it's very clear that the country has never been managed this poorly at any time in it's history. The USA is in some dire need of change. Is it the fault of the politicians? No, I don't believe it is entirely their fault. More so, I believe it's the collective actions of society in general as well as government direction.
As far as our current 2 up for the job, we have one that is the 'business as usual' career politician. Should we just expect more of the same 'ole BS? Probably. My own personal view is, sure, we should be proud he served in any capacity, but a 'true' hero, meh...not really. Does it matter in the grand scheme of things to run the country? As a well educated person, I'd also go with a 'not really'. But if he constantly touting his service record, then all of it absolutely should be made available to the public and let the public decide. If there's nothing, great! But not showing the complete record makes people wonder and speculate that it's something negative, even if there isn't anything earth shattering. Would McCain be a good President? Maybe. I'd give him a chance. Hey, it couldn't be much worse than where we are now! On the 'other side' we have somebody who at first glance seems a little less 'politician-like', appears to be idealistic and wants good things for the country. Will he be good? For someone to give a definitive 'yes' or 'no' would just be another closed-minded individual speaking because he/she can only speculate on things they've heard through the usual suspect information outlets. It's reasonable to say that at least he appears to really want to try. But will he cause change? Again, probably not, but at least we'll have someone willing to try new things. As far as the experience issue, the lack there of may be a good thing. Lack of experience will often times lead to someone thinking out of the box instead of the usual way to deal with an issue. I for one, am a skilled technician with 23 years on the job, (what the profession is doesn't really matter for my point). But recently I had a problem that wasn't able to be solved in the usual fashion. When someone I know who has no clue how to perform my job or practical theory of it, gave me a suggestion, I just shrugged it off and thought he was crazy. Well, for sh*ts and giggles I tried it, and guess what? It solved the issue. Since then, I've never looked at inexperience the same way. History can show us many examples of this.
Bottom line is maybe we should try to impliment change. The economy is in ruins, the rest of the world hates us, or doesn't respect us much, so what the hell, what do we have to lose?
thompaine
· 1 year ago
It is good to see someone finally asking the tough questions of McCain. McCain's record shows he is out of touch and possibly slightly insane.
JamesR
· 1 year ago
What a huge thread And for all the injured 'patriotic' seeming postings, they have almost ALL ignored the original question. Proving one point of the question itself, and demonstrating it's relevance.
One point proven, the emotional outburst and hissy fit one, is in half of these postings. COMMAND EXPERIENCE? Nowhere.
~ BTW I re-checked the McCain site's "action center" and found they are giving points for Troll postings on Daily Kos and Crooksandliars, but NOT here!? WTF? It kinda looks like someone is giving some points out somewhere from the number and quality of postings on this thread. I find I am a little miffed Americablog did not rank. Officially. Yet Oh Well. ~
Son of privilege, bottom of his class, got captured and survived - It's a strange personal experience I do not think but a handful of people on the planet could identify with. He is NOT an average serving service member The other parts of his background have more in common with GW Bush than me, or anybody else who has posted on this thread so far.
On the one hand, he fought, and suffered greatly as a result of his choices, and served his country. On the other hand, son and grandson of admirals, what kind of choice was it? We do not know. And to give him the benefit of the doubt, which is only proper and decent, we'll say it was 100% honorable and 0% selfish and move on. This is a personal matter of personal honor, the way I see it, and cannot be judged by me nor any of us. And as such John's question DID NOT impugn his personal honor.
However, you can't have your cake and eat it too - if you use aspects of your personal honor in public, like a bludgeon frankly, or others do on your behalf, THAT is fair game. And ALL examples of using 'partiotism' as a weapon, like the dishonorable swiftboating of Kerry etc are all fair to compare with his current tactics. Using the concept of patriotism, and preying upon the patriotism of supporters using their sympathy and pride in their shared military service (or professed desire to have served.) That's not change, and that's not change anybody can believe in.
Shouting about what kind of hero you are, or allowing others to do so on your behalf kinda undoes the 'heroic' part of the heroism stuff, regardless of where on the 'scale' of heroism you put being a POW. It just doesn't smell right. Probably because it is not right.
Did McCain's experience make him more knowledgeable of geopolitical conditions? Like George Bush he thinks we could have won the Vietnam war with more force and does not seem to have at his commend a working knowledge of our CURRENT conflict at all. Neither his war experience of forty years ago nor his congressional career of decades to the present - none of those seemed to have helped.
All the veterans I have talked to and read writing about their issues do not count McCain as someone who is doing Jack Shit for them, and are puzzled and angry at the contradiction between his actions and his war experience, which is gone over again, and again and again like Giuliani and 9-11. He has the record of a selfish conservative Republican, not that of a concerned veteran, even if he, coincidentally, is a veteran.
Does surviving a horror for your country and or cause make you a hero? If so we are making hundreds of heroes for the other side in GITMO, all with McCain's blessing. Is that a result of his experience and does that make him more qualified? I do not know for sure, but it does not make the question nor questioner out of line.
So he was, or is, a Hero, and pardon me for going back to the original question, but SO WHAT?
I know it is distasteful to put that way, but when it's been made a public issue and one that purports to carry some meaning and impart some magical experience qualifying one for governance - pony up. Let's hear WHAT that is and WHY. In McCain's case I do not see it.
b10621
· 1 year ago
Funny, but more revealing about you than it is about McCain. Does "McCain [...] play the 'I was tortured' card every five minutes as a justification for electing him president."? Guess I missed that. The Republicans have no monopoly on the holier-than-thou silliness that plagues partisan politics.
Did this fellow Aravosis really ask why a Naval officer didn't rise to the level of general ("or something"!)? Is that the level of analysis he is providing? A fair question, of course, would be why McCain didn't become an admiral like his father and grandfather before him, but to even raise that question -- never mind to even attempt to answer it -- would require some basic understanding of the armed services, as opposed to a knee-jerk, off-the-cuff, partisan "hissy fit".
JamesR
· 1 year ago
What a precious and clever comment that was. As clever as it was completely devoid of any analysis, insightful or not, of the actual question you took time to read and the thread you took the time to respond to.
So John omitted "equivalent to" before General. Everybody knows the reference to the Army rank of General is relevant because of the recent comments of General Wesley Clark. Cutting John some earned slack for an error he would be free in admitting and correcting is due.
Cutting you slack for a gratuitously snarky comment is not due.
Pony up: WHAT in McCain's military experience qualifies him for promotion to Commander In Chief?
Semperfi
· 1 year ago
There's no excuse for being an idiot, plus "John Aravosis" didn't spend several years in a hellhole like a Viet-Cong prison camp. Senator McCain did serve as a officer in the US military and as such did receive training in military affairs. and at very least has some idea as to the structure and workings of the military. General Wesley Clark was forced into retirement for having a big mouth and fumbling the War in Kosovo. And in the end Obama has no military service at all... "For those who fight for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know"
JamesR
· 1 year ago
Nice slogans. You mentioned no qualifications McCain has beyond basic officer training. Thanks.
Or should I say "No Screaming Eagle shit?"
Sheron49
· 1 year ago
Then my nephew and brother should be have bragging rights to be President. Being a prisoner of war does not merit the creditials that McCain wants everyone to accept. All McCain knew was how to be a Prisoner that does not give me confort in protectting me. McCain is standing on the idea of him being a HERO (a PRISONER) Clark is not standing on that issue and he was issued in service also and is a GENERAL. Military experience must be treated with respect to rank if McCain is to claim it as qualification and not the idea of just because he was a (PRISONER).
dennis101
· 1 year ago
You are a fool and have no idea what you are talking about. Your General the Great General Clark was FIRED AS SUPREME COMMANDER OF NATO!!!!! So General Clark is in no position to judge Sen. McCains military record. Get your facts straight!!!!
Just_a_peon_in_America
· 1 year ago
Hey your quote really prompted me to say something to you, wish is only a big deal because I quit writing comment posts 6 months ago. But..that quote comes from a mindset that has always deeply troubled me. I just wanted to say to you that the quote and mindset behind it is a really hypocritical way to prove your value of miliataristic service. Quite frankly, what is the point of protecting us americans if you just come back from war and hold it over our heads, and demand us to kiss your ass til the day you die? I dispise the military for many reasons, one of them being that Im supposed to act so grateful for actions I never requested. First off, if you're in a war and fighting, you are not fighing "for me or my protection". You are fighting the government's war. Or with Iraq, it would be a corporation's war. Either way, nobody came to my door and asked permission for my tax dollars to fund killing. So..that is why I am not grateful...because I study the issues and I do not see a connection between killing Vietnamese and Iraqis and the "Freedom" of my life. Lastly, to soley designate "freedom" to a war is not only oxymoronic, it's simply way too narrowminded. You dont think cancer is a prison? you dont think racial or sexual orientation prejudicace and hatred is a "prison"...Do you really think that if your a civilian that you're "free". There are days I feel like I actually live in a prison, bounded by all these social norms and political lies and the constant gratitude I must constantly show for soldiers whom often are the most racist people I've ever met. Anyways..I cant articulate as best as I would like...but my basic point is to never demand the people's gratitude for things they never asked for. And dont ever assume that civilians arent experiencing some really terrible shit...just cuz we didnt make the choice to live in a desert and do 3 tours of duty doesnt mean that we arent fighting for freedom for issues you obviously dont know about since you're too busy "bombing for the freedom" of citizens in other countries....
Semper_Fi_USA
· 1 year ago
Your ignorance of the military is startling... As a Veteran of two branches of the military, I served so guys like you would be aloud the opportunity to show said ignorance.
I personally am not a fan of Senator McCain's, but he retired from the Naval reserves just 1 pay-grade behind General Clark. As for command experience, his is plenteous... when he left active duty for the reserves he held the rank of Captain (Bird Colonel in other branches) one pay grade behind flag rank. in the reserves he ascended to Rear Admiral.
For you to post a bunch of junk you so obviously have not researched shows either great liberal bias, or perhaps a great qualification for employment with the New York Times.
JamesR
· 1 year ago
I don't post junk. You can read what I have posted by clicking on my profile. I can read everything you've posted by looking at the paragraph above. I appreciate the attempt to answer the question by referencing pay grades and ranks, and subtracting the ad-hominem attacks, which are frankly ignorant and cowardly for anyone not least someone who said he has served in not one but two branches of the military.
You don't know me. Therefore you can't say anything about "guys like" me. Got that? You can read what I have posted and get a clue.
As a purported veteran don't you feel a bit USED by someone using what could be seen as a 'veteran card' to get your knee-jerk support - or knee-jerk defense against folk you are set up to perceive as a veteran's enemy?? Like you are doing against me? I would.
But it's not about ME. It's about bigger things that affect us all.
This blog is for thinking rational citizens of all stripes, so back to the topic, regardless of what we may or may not think of each other:
Besides "plentious" experience, presumably while an active pilot, what kind of specific training for strategic policy decisions and command and organization is it that is given to a Navy Captain of McCain's generation? Pony up. Tell me if you can.
Sheron49
· 1 year ago
I agree. Now McCain camp is stating that Clark owes McCain an apology. I believe that it is vice versa. For if McCain continually pats himself on the back for being a war hero; then he has opened the door to his claim of having the creditial to be President based on that HERO line does warrant further scrutiny. Besides if creditials to be President is to be captured; I want the one who captured McCain to protect me --not McCain.
SoPatty
· 1 year ago
Did you SAY anything there? You made NO point whatsoever, Quite liberal of you, actually.
cume61
· 1 year ago
I don't know where to start to correct the errors in several of the comments. But: for all you Leftist 'mush for brains': (aka MFB) 1) McCain DOES NOT talk about his torture every 5 minutes 2) Anyone with basic knowledge of military promotion process knows that one does not get promoted as a POW - thus McCain lost 5 1/2 years of promotion eligibility. 3) He displayed great character and courage by not accepting release from the NVN because he was Admirtal McCain's son - That is the fundamental issue. This is in contrazt to Hanoi Jane, and (most of the current Hollywood acotrs who talk a good game. Notice how few of them are going to Iran to confront the Ayotollahs, or go to Iraq to show their solidarity?.
Finally, on a more substantive note - notice how Obama is gradually shifting his position re: troop levels in Iran, His intial position was to parrot the Leftist anti-war position - , he was calling for total withdrawal by March 2008 becaus ethe 2007 surge was doomed to failure (sic), Then it was total withdrawal w/i 12 months if elected. Then it is withdrawal of combat troops, Now it is withdrawal of 1 brigade a month depending on the advice of the commanders . Next it will be 'he will listen to the recommendations of the commanders in the field. NET - no significant difference from the current strategy. He reluctantly admits that the surge has been successful in achieving some degree of security and economic and political progress.
You MOVEON.ORG and CODEPINK MFB types must really be upset at your inability to get the total withdrawal that you promised in 2006 when the Dems took control of Congress.
OBTW - is international EU and UN diplomacy working in Iran?
JamesR
· 1 year ago
OFF TOPIC MAGGOT.
Don't ya think that's what your drill Sargent would scream at you if you tried to pull that bullshit sass on him in answer to or or comment upon his topic? If, that is, you really have served in any branch of service. For the sake of argument I will ass u me you have.
If I might glean an answer from your post it would be that McCain would have gotten all that training and experience, save for the 5 years he was confined. Whatever that might be, which, considering the amount of self-styled patriotic and military postings NOBODY HAS EXPLAINED in any detail whatsoever. I am supposing that had McCain served in action those 5 years and gotten training and promotion then he might be as well qualified as you to serve as Commander in Chief? I can sleep better now, thanks.
Jane Fonda? Code Pink? WTF? PTSD much? One thing's for sure, President Obama will not cut your VA disability. A President McCain probably would.
cume61
· 1 year ago
Your blatent bias does not deserve any more of my time. OBTW - I was an Air Force officer during the Vietnam era, but thankfuilly did not serve intheater, unlike many of my relatives, friends, and fellow officers.
What were you doing during that time - watching Jane Fonda? Voting for JFK and LBJ who got us into Vietnam and significantly escalated the US involvement that lead to > 58,000 US nilitary deaths, and millions of civilians?
JamesR
· 1 year ago
The topic is: "Honestly, besides being tortured, what did McCain do to excel in the military?"
I can't find anything, You who may indeed have been a member of more than just the 101st Fighting Keyboardists, might be able to provide insight. Instead you type a lot of outdated BS about Hanoi Jane and odd references to Code Pink, which has been mentioned by no one else on this thread nor in the topic
Perhaps I should have said "Stuck in the past much?" except that is not an affliction that McCain could direct the VA to deny you benefits for - as his voting record as a Senator shows he would if he could.
I did prod you to respond, but instead of responding to the actual topic you responded to me and who and what you think I am. It's not about me. It's about the country you claim to have served.
cume61
· 1 year ago
MFB:
McCain did his patriotic duty to serve a Democratic Adminsitration that started the Vietnam War (JFK) and prolonged it (LBJ). McCain flew numerous combat missions, and survived years of torture. What did you do?
McCain and the professional military leaders opposed the WebbVA proposal for sound organizational reasons. Webb's (and the anti-war Left - Murtha, Pelosiui, et.al.) successful hidden agenda is to emsculate the military by encouraging the more experienced military to leave after three years to be replaced by younger, less experiernced ones. The result will be a younger, less experienced military, with more casualties, higher costs for training benefits, etc.
Original Message -----
JamesR
· 1 year ago
Um, the topic is what "Honestly, BESIDES being tortured, what did McCain do to excel in the military?"
Honestly, your response is "nothing." Which is not necessarily a bad thing, but, honestly, that's what it is. Why gild the lily? Everything you mentioned qualifying McCain, that is not in fact torture, are things he did AFTER his military service.
And as humiliating as this must be for you for this to be pointed out by someone you label "MFB," which you call "Mush For Brains," I cannot help but observe that McCain served HIS COUNTRY, which is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT from serving "a Democratic Adminsitration that started the Vietnam War. " It may sound the same but it is not.
Your words betray your purported military experience and on this day are particularly dishonorable.
And your characterization of Webb introducing anything that would "emasculate" the military is especially laughable.
See you on another thread, maybe, one that you can perhaps actually bring some ideas to.
cume61
· 1 year ago
To save each other time, I am going to end this thread unless you want to be objective, and not resort to ad hominum insulting comments.
We obviously disagree about the improtance of wartime service.
I agree that they Countery and the Admin are not identical, but the Democratic Admin and Congress reepresented the country's policies in the 1960's, just as you leftists assert that GWB does today. You acn't have it both ways
On another point, I stand by my Webb comments - they also are appropriate for Murtha, Kennedy, and all the others in the Congress who prematurley denigrated the Marines in Iraq.
dgjames
· 1 year ago
That's nice. "PTSD much?". Try living with ot for a while and then see if it's something to joke about. Better yet, try serving your conutry and laying your life on the line so that the Code Pink-ers and the Moveon.org-ers can continue spouting nonsense like this. It might give you a different perspective. Semper Fi
celticladyinaz
· 1 year ago
I have PTSD (not from military service, yes, you can get many different ways folks) and I wasn't offended by JamesR's comment.
JamesR
· 1 year ago
Thanks.
JamesR
· 1 year ago
I have a friend in real life, who fought in real life and really has PTSD. He would not have a problem with my invocation of his affliction in this context. He would however have big problems with what you and the previous poster bring to this discussion. That being essentially nothing
The topic is "Honestly, besides being tortured, what did McCain do to excel in the military?" - with the related 'What kind of training did he receive that qualifies him more than anyone else, for Comander In Chief.'
It's OK if you don't know anything, just more honorable if you said so, like the previous poster, rather than going on some weird tangents.
I apologize if I typed my previous comment in a way you thought was derogatory or dismissive of PTSD, or if I hurt your feelings, but if you really are a Marine then I am sure you can take it . Yet as a Marine I wonder how you feel about McCain's record helping veterans to date. My friend who has to deal with the VA regularly paints a horrible picture, and I don't ever discuss McCain with him for fear of not being able to stop the vitriol. Of course that's a bit off topic but at least related, something to think about.
OleHippieChick
· 1 year ago
All you "heroes" were told you were fighting for your country. You bought the stupid, gung-ho BS. But you were handy for doing the killing for the corporations doing the billing, not for us, and not for our so-called freedom. So how bright are you all that you should be listened to? Not so much.
celticladyinaz
· 1 year ago
I agree! The whole point of basic training (been there, done that) is to be broken down from the individual that you arrived as to become a unit in a team that obeys orders. Thinking and really making value judgements don't come into play until you're much higher in rank, as McCain was. However, if we objectively look at his service record, OTHER than his rejection of being released out of turn in Vietnam, nothing that he did was "outstanding" in comparison to thousands of other soldiers--they risked everything too, some were captured and tortured, some made it home only to suffer from PTSD....but ask any one of them if their service in Vietnam qualifies them to run the country. I think an honest man or woman would say no. Also, I have a sneaking suspicion (not a fact, not claiming that it is) that the missinng records that McCain won't release indicate he came back with some serious PTSD.....Since I have PTSD, I for one wouldn't want anyone who has suffered from it or still suffers from it anywhere near the White House. Sorry but in all honesty...we need a steady hand at the wheel...
ThomasPaineful
· 1 year ago
Susanai56, you are a true moron. He was "stupid to get caught." What kind of a shit for brains actually says things like this?
As I mentioned yesterday, the smartest thing Barack could do would be to distance himself from some of these assenine leftist comments. And just today, here he was:
At a news conference here Monday, McCain himself said of Clark's comment, "That kind of thing is unnecessary" and distracts from real pocketbook issues voters care about.
About the same time, Obama told an audience in Independence, Mo., that McCain had "endured physical torment in service to our country" and "no one should ever devalue that service, especially for the sake of a political campaign, and that goes for supporters on both sides."
Wake up you lefty assholes. The vast majority of Americans respect our military and honor their sacrifices. I'm glad Barack gets it. Hopefully you fools won't cost him the election by pissing off sensible voters.
SkippyFlipjack
· 1 year ago
True: Someone here saying McCain was "stupid to get caught" is idiotic. If Wes Clark had said anything in that galaxy, Obama should be calling in favors to try to get him deported.
False: Clark's statements yesterday bear any resemblance to those of some of the idiots here, including Susanai. When you say the "vast majority of Americans respect our military and honor their sacrifices," you're talking about Wesley Clark. As he explicitly said yesterday, McCain has always been a hero of his. Obama "gets" that the media was going to make a huge issue of this. Don't think for a second that he really wanted to distance himself from Clark's completely reasonable thesis: that McCain's wartime constitution (which I think is remarkable) has any bearing on his presidential bona fides. I can see good arguments on both side of that opinion, but the idea that Clark was devaluing McCain's service is ludicrous.
PlantationMaster
· 1 year ago
Can anyone of you empty headed Brobama supporters tell me what your Messiah has done in the way of leadership in anything he's done? Anything. For starters and finishers he's a complete abject failure as an Illinois senator as he's been office for Three Years and ran for president for two of them accomplishing nothing for the state of Illinois, the reason he was sent there by the liberal idiots of this god forsaken state who's entire Democratic leadership is under investigation or soon to be indicted at the present time.
The congressional district he ran in Illinois is the highest crime ridden murder rated in the country and is a district in which he himself couldn't even walk down the street safely at night seeing that he's more white than African American. The only thing this guy will ever get elected to is where he is today.......... as once he loses the campaign he's in now he will be finished in politics altogether, as even brainless liberals will realize how worthless he is after losing the shoe in campaign following the "dreaded Bush presidency". You miserable BDS sufferers hate him so much for so long now you've lost touch with reality.
So lets see here, we've got a lifelong servant to America in one way or another and a War hero if there ever was one or Barack Hussein FauxBama Jr, fake and fraud through and through?
Gee, That's a tough one..........first strike since Obama isn't even a true African American, second strike he isn't even a senior senator for cripes sake..third strike he's a sellout to both race he claims to be from , throwin both whitey and blackie under the bus at the same time both from his family, not to mention his Arabic roots he pretends not to have, so thats a billion muslims under the bus too while he's at it
What a con job,
How pathetic can you liberals be to think that big eared half honkey has anything it takes to be a leader of anything? I wouldn't even but crack from him if I smoked it ...like he admittedly did.
celticladyinaz
· 1 year ago
PlantationMaster,
First of all your online name is reprehensible....and immediately makes blog readers think you're a racist before they ever read your statements. Second, your comments show just how ignorant you are. Bring something real to the conversation. Third and most importantly, you sound like you'd hate Obama if he stuck to any of his various ethnic heritages.....what does the fact that he's half African American, that he's half white and his father was a Muslim have to do with anything? It doesn't.
Giomanach
· 1 year ago
Military Officer's receive Leadership and Management courses upon earning officer grades and if as posted McCain left the military 1 pay grade below flag rank then he has received military training in those fields above and beyond that of most political officials. The topic is questioning McCain's military record that qualifies him as Commander in Chief during a campaign for the presidency against a candidate that has no military experience at all. 2004 General Clark backed Senator Kerry and voiced that his military service was an asset as Commander in Chief yet McCain's service is no longer is seen as an asset by General Clark in 2008? I won't bash Obama for not having military service, yet McCain's military combined with his political timeline I believe does qualify him for office if we are talking about experience. Military service is normally made known and "paraded" by candidates during elections and with McCain that service is quite a stretch back therefore his voicing it repeatedly is understandable. Does military experience qualify one for President? Not neccessarily, even if the candidate was a 5 star general. The question that I believe is actually being asked is if McCain is qualified for President. Answer yes, politcal views aside.
BrentB50
· 1 year ago
I have a few questions Mr. Aravosis in response to your question. You ever serve in the military? You ever been captured by the enemy? You ever been tortured? If the answer is NO to those questions, I think your comment about disloyalty in regards to John McCain's making of a progaganda tape should be retracted. John McCain isn't the first tortured POW to make statements, record propaganda tapes, etc. under the extreme duress of torture, nor will he be the last. To characterize that as disloyalty is beyond the pale. Now if you had evidence that he acted in some way that brought additional pain or suffering on his fellow POWs that would be a whole other issue, but this is a man who given the chance to leave, stayed rather than leave his fellow POWs behind. That Mr. Aravosis would be LOYALTY beyond a shadow of doubt to his fellow POW's, so you Sir should keep your emotional outbursts designed to impugn the man's military service to yourself, as you don't have the first clue as to what you are talking about. Now to the question at hand, does John McCain's service to our country make him more qualified to be President than Mr. Obama's lack thereof? No it doesn't make him more qualified, it simply makes him much more knowledgeable when it comes to the topic of military service to one's country. Some of the most "qualified" individuals for the position of President, have turned out to be some of our worst Presidents. Whereas some of the least "qualified" individuals have been among our best Presidents. When it comes to casting one's vote this Fall for President of the United States, the only thing we know for sure is that whichever man is elected, we will not know going in whether he's going to be a good president or a bad president until he's been on the job for awhile, which is the way it's been for every person that has held the office...
BrentB50 MSgt, USAF, Retired
mirth
· 1 year ago
So one can question only if one has direct personal experience? I'm going to use your argument the next time a male rants about pregnant females killing their babies.
By "torture," you mean the practices of the United States?
Gosh, one would expect that someone with wartime experiences like McCain's would be a champion for vet care and benefits and surely they would not send more servicepersons into unnecessary wars.
BrentB50
· 1 year ago
Mirth... I'm saying that for Mr. Aravosis to throw out the word disloyal without any direct personal experience is in my humble opinion wrong. Now if he wants to get one of Mr. McCain's fellow POW's on here to say that, well that's a whole other kettle of fish in my opinion and would be worth listening to.. As for male rants about pregnant females killing their babies, speaking for myself, I think that's up to the woman and whomever the Dad is to decide on what they should do. Do I think abortion is always the best choice? No not necessarily, BUT I don't think it's my call if I'm not the Dad.. Torture.. I mean ANYONE that is subjected to torture by ANYONE or ANY COUNTRY... As for McCain's being or not being a champion for vet care and benefits, he's not the only Republican that is not championing either, that would include among others the current President.. But that's not the issue I was addressing was it... I simply made two points, one being I don't think Mr. Aravosis is in a position to pass judgement on John McCain's military service, I think only other Vets that served in Vietnam can do that.. The second point was that his service doesn't make him any more or less qualified for the office of President of the United States... In reading some of the other comments here, regarding Swift Boating of... I again will say when other Vietnam Vets are the one's passing judgement, in my opinion they have the relevant experience to make that judgement be it on John Kerry or John McCain.. Those opinions I will listen to and weigh in what my judgement is on the individual in question.. But I'm sure this will all be moot come November.. I mean after all, a Democrat for this election is an absolute lock to win the Presidency right????? They could have nominated Donald Duck... I'll say this though, if Mr. Obama loses I'll be very interested in hearing the excuses that come out to explain how he lost a race that was a dead certain victory for whomever the Democratic party nominated for the office....
BrentB50 MSgt, USAF, Retired
sfcmac
· 1 year ago
You think it was unnecessary to hit back at Islamofascist scumbags, supported throughout the Middle East, where they live and breed? Okay. As for your whining over GITMO, if you think I will lose one minute's sleep over doing what it takes to save American lives, you're nuts. As a matter of fact, most of those terrorist scumbags get 3 hots and a cot, prayer time with their 7th Century screed (aka the Koran), and a hellof alot more humane treatment than they give the people they capture, torture and behead.
Bottom line: We shouldn't take any prisoners.
SFC Cheryl McElroy US ARMY (RET) Iraq War Veteran
joshuasgrandma
· 1 year ago
To the argument that MCCain's POW experience is a qualification for president: then the GOP should be lining up all the guys at GITMO as candidates. They're probably great presidential material too!
sfcmac
· 1 year ago
Besides making snarky, malicious comments about a bona fide war hero who never faked his injuries, maligned his fellow servicemembers, or betrayed America, what has Aravosis done that’s worth a shit?
To the nihilist jackoffs attacking John McCain’s military record and ordeal as a POW: Stick to what you do best; screeching like little milksops over your socialist candidate and dodging service to the country, while brave Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen do the heavy lifting.
SFC Cheryl McElroy US ARMY (RET) Iraq War Veteran
Mutedvox
· 1 year ago
what's amazing to me is all you delusional GOP'ers praising a guy you trashed in 2000. LOLOLOLOLOL!!! as for military duty well W was in the military, or was he and look what he has wrought. you guys crack me up....
LisaJ
· 1 year ago
I can't help but wonder about someone that would be willing to participate in propaganda tapes after being tortured. but even like was said, "putting that aside". If your going to allow people to label you as a war hero and publish a book about your experiences why is it you would keep Part of your military records hidden? What is it he's trying to hide? I would never be one to question anyone’s military record "I can only imagine the horrors of war. But specifically hiding information is the same as a lie!
toymakanik
· 1 year ago
i dont believe words like "Islamofascist scumbags", "worth a sh*t", and "jackoffs", among other things is very becoming of a military member and i dont think superiors would approve. its embarrasing to me and to the military as a whole.
ripskull
· 1 year ago
You people on the far left are hateful, hypocritical, CLUELESS, idiots, who apparently get all your facts from 1) blogs of other idiots spewing non-facts, 2) wikipedia, and/or 3) Democratic talking points. Get your facts straight! The fact of the matter is John McCain was given the opportunity to come home after being shot down, because the Vietnamese wanted to use it as a propaganda ploy to drive a wedge within the military itself (i.e. an example of how the rich elitists get preferential treatment). He chose to stay with his men, enduring years of torture, something I'd like to see you coffee shop liberals (including Obama) do. Its easy to sit back and sip your Starbucks and stuff pound cake in your face, while you question the integrity of a man like McCain, while at the same time enjoying the freedoms afforded you by people like McCain. Its easy and that's why you do it, because it is EASY, and you're lazy, pathetic, enjoying-the-good-life, armchair quarterback, hypocrites. BTW, McCain had nothing to do with the explosion that killed the 138 men, except he was present and was almost killed too (a bomb on another plane went off, starting a chain reaction explosion). The fact of the matter is McCain is a patriot to the core of his being and put his life on the line for his country, something Obama has never done and would never do. In fact, Obama has chosen to surround himself by hate-spewing, America-hating individuals of very questionable integrity. The fact that he married a person who thinks that the first thing the US has done that she can be proud of is to elect her husband the Democratic Presidential nominee speaks volumes about who both Obama and she are and what they represent. Throw the preacher who married them in the mix and OMG, I can't even believe you're going to support this guy. Remember, Hitler professed change during trying times and we all know where that ended up. Unfortunately, defeating facism wasn't good enough to make Michelle Obama's "Proud List".
oldvets
· 1 year ago
Spoken like a true Swiftboater! I might take you seriously if you had had the same reaction when Kerry was being slimed by your friends.
ripskull
· 1 year ago
Are we talking the same John Kerry that came home after he scratched himself a couple of times and worked the system to get a couple of medals? Are you really comparing John Kerry's two months of service on a boat in which he spent more time filming himself than he did fighting, with John McCain's countless missions and years in a prison camp? The big difference is that nobody who fought alongside McCain ever had a word of contempt for the man, yet almost everybody who fought with John Kerry had nothing nice to say about him. Maybe if John Kerry had not come home and aligned himself with with leftist-revolutionaries, sliming the people he "fought" beside, testifying to events that are now known to be 100% fabricated lies, maybe then his fellow soldiers would not have felt compelled to go after him to set the story straight. Have you spent any time reading the accounts of the people he fought with or are you just getting your facts from liberal blogs and Democratic talking points?
So this is where all this McCain crap is coming from? You're trying to Swift Boat John McCain. Good luck! He's 10 times the man Kerry will ever be.
oldvets
· 1 year ago
Suckskull, I think maybe we are talking about two different people. The John Kerry I refer to received medals for valor and came back with what is now acknowledged as PTSD. He was widely supported by the men who worked most closely with him. The trouble started when one of Bush's billionaire supporters in Texas started paying for the Swiftboat attacks. This dirty money enraged the passions and clouded the memory of some Nam vets who never got over the fact that Kerry opposed the war.
Numskull, I doubt seriously if you have the capacity to recognize which is the best man.
SkippyFlipjack
· 1 year ago
If you want to clear up misconceptions about McCain's war record, implying that Obama is following Hitler's lead and saying that liberals hate America is a good way to get ignored at best, if not called a mouth-breathing turd.
By the way, McCain has said he never really loved America until he served in Vietnam. Does that also speak volumes about him?
ripskull
· 1 year ago
Don't read between the lines. I'm not calling Obama Hitler, only stating that "change" is not always desirable change. Hitler promised change, as did Lenin to people who were desperate, only to strengthen and lengthen their misery. Its easy to run on an obscure, unquantified, platform of change. I stand by my statements about Obama and his wife, and for that matter his preacher. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY you can go to a preacher for 20 years, even becoming very close friends, and not know what that person is about. He's a racist and a hate-monger of the worst kind, and yet you toss those labels at people on the right who (like 98% of the people I know) have never wished anything but the best for any person deserving it.
I want to see the statement you say about McCain and loving America. You don't join the military without a love of country.
I'll bet you were one of those people out there screaming that we could not question John Kerry's military service during the last election, weren't you?
SkippyFlipjack
· 1 year ago
Look at the americablog homepage right now for the video. "I really didn't love America until I was deprived of her company," says McCain. He means it in the same way as Michelle Obama did -- sometimes you think you love something or someone, but then something transcendent happens that makes you love it that much more. Both of these people had experiences that made them feel incredible love for and pride of this country. What's wrong with that?
I think McCain's service shouldn't be picked apart like Kerry's was, but I think the relevance of his service to his performance as president should be discussed, which is the discussion that Wes Clark tried to start.
And you may not be calling Obama Hitler, but leave the crazy analogies at home. Every candidate for every political office who's challenging an incumbent brings a message of change; should we invoke the specter of concentration camps in every single campaign? as I said, no one takes you seriously when you say stuff like that.
budgreen
· 1 year ago
OMFG!!!!
This makes me seriously ill. There are many things you could say about McCain, but to question his military service! I have never had much hostility or ill will against the far left, but after reading this I am truly enlightened.
My god! you question McCain yet support a candidate that has given NOTHING to this country. NOTHING
What sad little people you are.
OleHippieChick
· 1 year ago
Get over yourself. We have the right, the duty, to question EVERYTHING put out by these so-called leaders.
tinylitess
· 1 year ago
1970 – McCain imprisoned and being tortured 1970 – Obama living the hard life at a prestigious private school and watching Different Strokes in the evening.
You guys are right. Obama was torture more, no big deal
celticladyinaz
· 1 year ago
Uh, hello? Obama went to that private school on scholarship....he lived with his grandparents, his mother wasn't even around, they had little or no money and lived in a tiny apartment. And comparing a high school student not of legal age to enlist and a full grown man imprisoned in Vietnam is absurd.
gmedia
· 1 year ago
LOL I bet Barry Obama really hates that show.
obamaissocialist
· 1 year ago
you do deserve real answers..unfortunately Barack Obama does not provide any. You liberal sleazebags question McCains service but dont seem to have any questions about the inexperience of the lesser candidate Obama. What would you call Obama's 20 year support of the racist rhetoric of the Pastor Wright (was he tortured into supporting the hate). What gives Obama the qualifications to lead....NOTHING...he makes nice speeches but hasnt got a real clue. It is not a wonder why Obama has the endorsement of Hamas. Obama is politics as usual...say anything depending on the day to get elected. We cant afford to put a socialist in the white house....we already see how a democratic congress is destroying our economy.
celticladyinaz
· 1 year ago
Obama has a brain and is capable of independent thought....that's what makes him qualified. He did NOT have the endorsement of Hamas...you're a lyer.
Dencal26
· 1 year ago
McCain survived 6 years of Torture and Deprivation. Obama can't survive a DAY without lighting up a KOOL. Yes this tells a story of ones strength and leadership.
celticladyinaz
· 1 year ago
McCain was a smoker too, doofus.
Dencal26
· 1 year ago
Read McCains bio and learn what he did, Doofus
gmedia
· 1 year ago
So true and he claims McCain made a propaganda video for the enemy. My understanding is he did not, BUT even if he did, he did so under the kind of duress that none of could possibly imagine and is the kind of thing anyone would get a pass for. John Kerry and Jane Fonda engaged in propaganda for the enemy willingly and they get a pass. As for playing the "I was tortured" card, he does not play that anymore than Barack Hussein Obama plays the "I am Black" so you can't ask me a tough question without being labeled a racist card. McCain also has sons in the Iraq. The left used to use the mantra that Bush should send his children. Well, McCain has. I am sure they will find something wrong with that too.
mirth
· 1 year ago
Obama plays the I Am Black card and his daughters aren't sons old enough to be sent to Iraq?
Ding! Ding! Ding!
You win the Most Ridiculous Comment award today...and, Hunny, that's saying sumpthin'!
b10621
· 1 year ago
Um, do you even pretend to be serious? This commenter's point was that McCain's sons are serving in Iraq, so presumably McCain believes in the fight and is not supporting it for some dubious reasons (a financial interest, etc.). He wasn't commenting about gender or age, though you evidently wish to pretend that that was what it was about. In other words, Ding Ding Ding, you win the Most Hilariously Partisan Comment award today.
Semperfi
· 1 year ago
Willam J. Clinton had no military experience at all, that didn't stop him from being CIC, and Senator John Kerry did the same during his run for the white house, constantly telling us how he won a Purple heart (for a scratch on his arm). And of the last ten Presidents only Dwight D. Eisenhower & George H. W. Bush had any extensive military experience.
e_five
· 1 year ago
For someone who claims to know so much about the military, you very conveniently forgot to mention that JFK was in the military (remember the movie PT-109? No? Military "expert"?), Jimmy Carter went to the Naval Academy and served as a Lt. in the Navy. Kerry's injuries were quite a bit more than a scratch on the arm, moron. And the Broze Star Kerry won had nothing to do with the extent of injuries.
And here's another thing, dipwad, the biggest military hero to run for President since Eisenhower is probably George McGovern. Look it up, dumbfuck.
OleHippieChick
· 1 year ago
Yeah, let's get into old HWB's "extensive military experience." Yas, that was quite the experience for the men he bailed out on. Thank God Il Douche Jr. was never in the service (champagne TANG aside), he would've screwed up just as badly as his whiny old man. Jeez, all you McAincient-lickin trolls qualify for membership in the Mean-Spirited Little Pricks Club with Lil Johnnie and Dubs.
All Comments
You also don't criticize the content of the propaganda. It is well known that Korean War POWs openly defied their captors in propaganda films by flipping the bird, and sending messages in morse code. Are you gonna lump them in as unpatriotic by their mere participation?
I think this SMEAR CAMPAIGN does a disservice not only to the Democrats, but to the Democratic process. This kind of Swift Boating avoids discussion of the issues and is one step away from the fear-mongering that re-elected George Bush, and look at what that got us.
I have no idea who the yahoo was who sent me a reply by email, so I'll post it here:
"This is an absolutely disgusting post. You should be ashamed. Trying to label McCain as a propagandist after he's been tortured. It's obvious that you have no idea about what you're talking about. It is people like you that give the rest of us democrats a bad imagine. Whether or not McCain is experienced or not is a valid matter. The reprehensible in which you try to discuss it is quite another."
To which I reply, "perhaps swiftboating McCain is a nasty thing to do, but if it's good for the goose, you know the rest. Also consider that members of the SBVFT are connected to the McCain campaign, and that said SBVFT members still insist that what they did was right and good, while attempts to do the same to Sen. McCain is not. I will tell you one thing, Gen. Clark was absolutely right; nothing the Sen. McCain did in the Navy uniquely qualifies him to be President."
Don't ask the Good Ole' Boys Club to make sense or be logical, they have their standards, if you're one of them, you understand, and if you're not one of them, you have no understanding of important things and that's where the discussion ends.
Psychos? Obviously. They run this country? Equally obvious.
"McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat," explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and former chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs -- the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam since the 1973 fall of Saigon. "Since McCain got 28 medals," Bell continues, "that equals out to about a medal-and-a-half for each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys -- grunts on the ground -- who had more than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I'm sure a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison. The question really is how many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down."
For years, McCain has been an unchecked master at manipulating an overly friendly and biased news media. The former POW turned Congressman, turned U.S. Senator, has managed to gloss over his failures as a pilot and collaborations with the enemy by exaggerating his military service and lying about his feats of heroism.
McCain has sprouted a halo and wings to become America's POW-hero presidential candidate.
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com...
And complaining about McCain's 20 hours of service when it was cut short by a 5-year stint in captivity seems pretty f***ing weak.
We are not Swiftboaters.
I wouldn't call being in en enemy prison camp easy, but he also didn't have to march through the jungle getting shot at either. More importantly- he never led men. He has no significant leadership training or experience.
However, I really wish you would stop throwing comments into your posts about the video that he made while in captivity. None of us can know what we would or wouldn't do after hours/days/weeks/months/years of being tortured and beaten and throwing around the term "treason" in a case like this is why the neocons are able to gain traction with their ridiculous comments that Democrats/liberals don't support the troops. There are plenty of legitimate things to criticize McCain about. Making light of the ordeal he suffered adds no value to the debate.
Imagine if Kerry had been captured and made a propaganda broadcast for the North Vietnamese -- do you think Rove wouldn't be exploiting it, and the corporate media replaying it on the nightly news more times than the Dean Scream?
I'd call them torture, myself - but John McCain wouldn't (any more) - and he'd let those confessions of "war crimes" that he made while being "harshly interrogated" into evidence at trial by a military commission.
Now I might be just not aware of it. There could have been a bunch of them who have come out and talked about McCain and I simply have not been aware of it.
But, I'm really curious./
But, I don't think being a pow should make is so a person is owed the presidency.
I do see alot of McCain blurring Vietman with Iraq. Boomers have carried their 40 year culture war into this era and it's tiring. So, it is not that different but, still, I think some of McCains problem with Iraq is because of Vietnam.
and let's not even go to the domestic issues which he has no interest in even though our country is crashing down the mountain fast.
diane
-------------- Original message ----------------------
Even more, I've wondered why those who were captured and held with him haven't been held up as great American heroes?
McCain was apparently kind of a problem in the military. After having won a coveted position as a flyer due to daddy's connections, he proceeded to crash numerous planes and apparently did not particularly excel in his field. He liked the outfits, though, and I think they're pretty spiffy myself.
But what is really ironic to me is that he was tortured and he did give in and make propaganda tapes for the North Vietnamese. From all reports, what he said in the tapes, what he told his captors, it was all bogus.
I've read some rather bitter diatribes from others who were held captive and tortured, and it is those accounts that brings up the "treason" issue, and I'm not sure it applies. Reportedly, those who are captured by the enemy are allowed to give name, rank, serial number and that is all. To do otherwise is to sell out one's country. Or so they say, these others who were also held captive.
But why does McCain support torture if UNDER TORTURE he gave false or misleading information? Wouldn't that make him LESS likely to support torture?
This is also why torture is considered an unreliable method to get information from anyone. A victim just say anything to stop the pain.
Me- I'd just start squealing like a pig as soon as you showed up. I'd say whatever you wanted to hear.
A compassionate Vietnamese civilian left his air raid shelter and swam out to McCain. McCain’s arm and leg were fractured and he was tangled up in his parachute underwater. He was drowning. The Vietnamese man saved McCain’s sorry ass, and yet McCain has nothing but hatred for “the gooks” who allegedly tortured him. As he told reporters on his campaign bus (The Straight Talk Express) in 2000, “I will hate them as long as I live.” (1)
http://www.counterpunch.org/valentine06132008.html
Where is that video of his denunciation of America! Where's the Democratic 527 to run the Hanoi John video?
The Democratic Leadership always plays to lose.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/29/95355/8...
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/29/21124/9...
http://www.mentalfloss.com/wp-content/uploads/2...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/18/20642/5...
Well, you know, a file clerk at, say, Intel, certainly should apply for the CEO job. Or at any huge corporation. This was supposed to be snark, but it seems that the Bush cabal HAS been doing exactly that. (25-year-old lawyers, educated at a religious law school, are in top positions, right?)
(894/899)*100 = bottom 4%
He graduate Magna Cum Dumb Ass. What else do you really need to know?
I agree with your basic point, but it would have been much more telling if you had not made a dumb arithmetic error in a post calling someone else a "Magna Cum Dumb Ass"! LOL
McCain has more time in service than just about any past prez, except maybe... Ike. Someone could correct me?
and thanks southernyankee
you are right. many time the soldier or ground troop is treated as if they are expendable. exhibit A: see how W and his boys are treating the returning vets.
as if his religion even mattered.
bet you Obama can spell "Educated". yes. he. can.
President Obama......get used to it.
federal government hasn't solved the problem? Asking where the FEMA trucks
(and trailers) are?
Why isn't the Federal Government relocating Iowa people to free
hotels in Chicago?
When will Spike Lee say that the Federal Government blew up the
levees that failed in Des Moines?
Where are Sean Penn and the Dixie Chicks?
Where are all the looters stealing high-end tennis shoes and big
screen television sets?
When will we hear Governor Chet Culver say that he wants to rebuild a
'vanilla' Iowa, because that's the way God wants it?
Where is the hysterical 24/7 media coverage complete with reports of
cannibalism?
Where are the people (read liberals, progressives and other way out
left wingers) declaring that George Bush hates white, rural people?
How come in 2 weeks, you will never hear about the Iowa flooding ever
again?
Where are the debit cards for Iowans?
I pray to God the people think hard before casting a wrong vote. I suggest you too think hard we cannot afford a mistake.
and how is being a lawyer not relevent? um the president gets to sign bills into law....appoint judges to the supreme court, shall i go on?
being an 0-6 probably had more to do with his dad and grandpa's positions than his own accomplishments. i am not impressed. besides....anyone who calls his wife a c**t does not need to be in charge of anyone. he obviously can't control himself. you want him in charge of the military. fabulous!
McCain's "breaking point" was about two days.
McCain was rescued from drowning in the lake that he crashed in, tangled up in his parachute, and needed to be saved by one of the people McCain still refers to as "gooks".
My dad and uncles were over there and fought a hell of a lot longer than McCain did, and none of them talk that kind of shit.
He was no inspiration to his fellow POWs, where do you hear this bullshit? Most of them hate him, and it's not hard to find out why: when McCain got back to America he worked tirelessly AGAINST any help towards finding or saving the POWs / MIAs who were still there. Funny that.
Hero... what are you smoking?
McCain was taken to a freaking elite hospital, and that is where he "broke" after about two days.
He's no hero in my book, hell, the spineless toad couldn't and wouldn't and didn't stand by his first wife, and he didn't stand up for his second wife when Rove and Bush attacked them, instead he cowered and then followed up with groveling.
Hero... lol
Keating Five. Adultery. Oportunism. Breaking his own finance reform. I could go on...
He's no hero.
But if that's the kind of person you look up to, I guess that says more about you than maybe you wanted it to.
As for the Keating 5, adultery, etc. -- you're preaching to the choir. Which part of "I don't like McCain" didn't you understand? This is strictly about his POW time. You'd have been pissing yourself after 25 minutes. Were your dad and uncle POWs? Do you think that maybe McCain would have trouble avoiding using slurs when referring to the people who held him captive for five years?
This is the first time I've felt like defending McCain, but the AmericaBlog Swiftboaters are making it tough not to. No, being in a POW camp doesn't prepare you for the presidency but let's just discuss that question and not try to question each of his medals. Next we'll be like Michelle Malkin and wonder if he was torturing himself just to get a medal..
Fred
so I guess he is not a good Veteran like your relatives wounded. were you in a war?
Americablog's groupthink is annoying sometimes...
Not only does McCain say that America has a "moral responsibility" to stay in Iraq and continue killing and bleeding, but he wants more enemies, because losing Iraq just isn't enough.
He wants to lose more wars.
Puss-cheeks war-fag McCain probably still angry about the Russian SAM missile that shot down his jet, made him spend 6 years of his life in a little box, that made him so fucking afraid and crying that he turned against his fellow soldiers, against his country, called himself a "black criminal" over the Hanoi loudspeakers.
McCain probably spent 6 years just getting angrier and angrier, hoping one day he will come to power and get revenge on the country that kicked his pathetic ass in Vietnam.
Poor McCain does not understand that when he takes over America, there is no empire left, economy is bankrupt, army is losing and demoralized, population more and more stupid and homeless and helpless.
John McCain will accelerate the collapse of America even quicker, and it makes me very, very optimistic.
Read more here: "John Mccain: Biggest Fag In War History"
http://exile.ru/articles/detail.php?ARTICLE_ID=...
We'd be pretty much deemed un-American for questioning McCain's military credentials by the party who believes that they own patriotism. Of course, they managed to transform our true military hero in '04 into a lying traitor by November. God, I hate the Right.
First off asshole, he was not in the Air Force he was in the NAVY... He was not a Capitan he was retired as a LT. Commander or a (Major) in the Army and Air Force. Which is only 2 pay grades below a Rear Admiral..
I can guess by just reading a few of the comments here that none of the posters has ever served in the military. Therefore all comments about John McCain made by you are meaningless. If any of you cowards were my prisoner for just a few weeks, I would have you admitting to sucking Osama Bin Laden's dick.
Just like we all heard that OBAMA just happened to have missed every hate America sermon given by Rev. Wright.
5. On Oct. 26, 1967 John McCain was shot down over Vietnam and ended up as a POW in North Vietnam. It was his 23rd mission over North Vietnam.
4. On July 29, 1967 his plane was destroyed by a missle accidentally fired by another plane waiting to take off. He barely survived. 134 sailors died that day. There is no evidence that McCain did anything wrong. The videos of the fires and explosions are astonishing. The first fire crew was wiped out by a bomb explosion and was replaced by volunteers in seconds. Subsequent explosions wiped out the replacement firemen. Tragically, the volunteers didn’t know how to fight a carrier fire and made the situation worse.
3. In 1965, he lost a plane flying home from the Army-Navy game due to mechanical failure. This was very common at the time. I once met a Vietnam pilot who lost a Phantom due to oil pressure failure. I asked what the consequences were. He said that his commanding officer was upset for 10 minutes and he had to fill out a form.
2. He lost a plane after hitting power line over the Iberian Peninsula. Presumably pilot era.
1. As a student pilot he lost a plane in Corpus Christi bay while trying to land.
The last 3 losses do not reflect adversely on John McCain. How about the first two? I would question whether any aviator whose name wasn’t McCain would have survived losing a plane as a student and then hitting power lines.
See http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com...
For some details. There are also a few books about McCain out there. See http://www.amazon.com/Nightingales-Song-Robert-...
John Aravosis is a Washington DC-based writer and political expert, specializing in using the Internet for politics. John has a joint law degree and masters in foreign service from Georgetown"
But he’s still a complete idiot. How does that happen?
Great what? Great Idiot ? A great communits ? A great Moron?
http://rockcreekfreepress.tumblr.com/post/35321...
Yes, and what exactly is Obama's ???? That is easy. He has none.
Your turning your stupid liberal hatred of conservatives into a moronic rant against honorable men like McCain. There doesnt seem to be any point in talkign any sense into any of you, its like trying to talk sense to a rat. Cant be done.
Get a life losers!!!!
Your comments are a disservice to yourself and you come off as mentally unstable. Got Prozac?
Hmm, very creative. Instead why not try to sound like someone intelligent and understand that its the honarble service of people like McCain that make this country great, and give morons like yourself the ability to freely post your hipiie-communist-drivel.
Thanks for pointing out that it is honorable veterens like me that make this country great. I'd also like to thank you for giving me a good laugh, unfortunately at your expense. It's a great way to start a day!
Buddy, you are so far off the deep-end its actually quite scary. Btw, I bet your one of those morons that also beleive the US was somehow behind the 9/11 attacks eh? That big of a moron? am I correct on that?
Damn man, look at your posts...you're a completely unstable nutball.
Also must protest the name calling here. Neither Obama nor McCain is a fag. In fact, using that as a pejorative against McCain here is pathetic as I've posted before considering that most members here are gay. It is more a measure of our own self hatred than any truism about McCain. As for calling Obama a fag [sigh!], that is just dispicable right wing code for calling him a N----. When it comes down to it, most of the objection to Obama is pathetically racist, though my personal objection is that he is far, far too right wing for my taste. Obama is clearly the most intelligent, articulate, capable person to run for president in a long, long, long time. Look how he far outclassed Bill Clinton who was a Rhodes Scholar.
I think he can be best described as a term used a few years ago in describing software. Products that were touted as the answer to everyone's problem but when it came time to deliver the product it was not there. The term is vaporware and I think it aptly describes your candidate's campaign.
Let's also remember that Sen. McCain refused an early release because there were men that had been there longer than him, and who were more severely injured. Don't forget too that when he was initially captured, he was so badly injured the enemy had literally left him to die. Not something I would call special treatment because of who his "daddy" was.
Another truth you are leaving out is that after the fire on the Forestal, McCain volunteered to join another carrier to finish his tour, which led to his captivity, instead of staying with the Forestal on its way home for repairs. That, for someone like you who would have no clue what it is, is called selfless service. It involves sacrifice as well as mental and physical toughness. That's gained by pushing yourself harder, and striving towards things greater than yourself, not by sitting in your underwear writing a cowardly blog. And that's also exactly what makes John McCain qualified to be our Commander in Chief.
Did you personally choose your smug profile picture? I imagine you with a variety of photos spread out, trying to decide which one conveys that wonderful blend of vision and brilliance. And, of course, the hand on the chin.
Everyone knew that, eventually, someone would bring up McCain's war record in a negative way. It was just a question of which idiot Democratic lackey was going to charge the hill in a desperate attempt to garner fame and notoriety.
Apparently it's you, John. Well done, laddie.
RH Potfry
http://www.thenoseonyourface.com
Why don't we just debate issues and call a time out for the period 1967-1973?
And, by the way, I am amazed at the lack of knowledge about our military. But, guess you have to had been there, done that.
Obama/Rufus 2008!
Bush is more concerned with playing toy soldier than he is in fulfilling his Constitutional duties, which, in case some of you have forgotten, requires that he ensure that the government "...establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,"
That preamble definitely shows that the government's domestic responsibilities outnumber its military; what point is there in defending a country in chaos? For the last seven years, "domestic Tranquility" and "general Welfare" have been ignored and the "Blessings of Liberty" have been trampled underfoot. Bush II's administration has utterly failed to fulfill the oath he swore on 20 January 2001 and repeated four years later, to uphold and defend the Constitution.
I consider myself a member of the last generation that grew up with the notion that the people elected to lead this country were honorable and worthy of our trust, a notion that began to fade in 1964 and died in 1973. Obama may not be a perfect candidate (and I don't, for a minute, believe any of the internet lies about him), but at least with him I feel at least an illusion of hope and a hint of better days to come.
John McCain helped preserve the lives of many men in the POW camp - just as many of those helped him preserve his life. Only the men who served with him during those 5 years knows what effect he had on them, whether he helped save their lives. Had you ever been a POW under threat of inury or death you would better understand the value of effective leadership in the time of crisis. But it is unfair to minimize his, and any other POWs, contribution to the welfare of their fellow POWs.
For the record, I've never heard or read any time where John McCain has called himself a hero. This is a label that others have applied to him. Others on both sides of the debate, I might add.
You might be better off going to Switzerland instead of Canada, since military service is compulsory there.
Give me a break!
As a direct result of his hot dogging it, his plane blew up on the USS Forrestal and caused the death of 138 US sailors.
After he was shot down the last time he spent seven years as a POW, selling out our soldiers and making Tokyo Rose style propaganda films.
Tell me what in this pathetic record makes this pampered psychopath suitable for a position of leadership? McSame is clearly suffering from a terrible case of Post Traumatic Stess and shouldn't be allowed near anything remotely dangerous. Vote Obama and make America proud again.
Selling our soldiers out? You really are a piece of shit! You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. nor does anyone else who sympathizes and agrees with this blog. We're all fucked if OBAMA BIN LADEN is elected president.
It's always ashame when someone who has nothing to say just passes out BS disparaging remarks. Oh, I guess I just did that to you, how's it feel there John boy?
usual disregard for and ignorance of the facts. If you were in the
habit of visiting this blog you would realize that liberal bloggers
aren't poor... and they're even literate. If you don't like what you
see here, you don't have to visit. And if you think your rants are
going to change minds here, I suspect you're wasting your time.
Yeah, we really really need McAincient as prez - another low-Q, fifth-from-the-bottom of his class, dingdong with anger management problems. I'd sure like to have a Geritol with HIM, not.
Caveats: NONE
Took you a while to get that one didn't it. But it's always interesting to
have a battle of wits with an unarmed person. Peace :-))
Bob Schieffer says "I have to say, Barack Obama has not had any of those [military policy-making] experiences either, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down," prompting Clark to respond with the obvious retort: "I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president." Schieffer interrupts with incredulity, "Really?" which makes one wonder what else Schieffer thinks are qualifications for the job.
But amuzin'.
Something you and so many like you simply do not seem to understand or want to understand...the rest of the world, the "international readers"...they are human, so therefore are hardwired to resent something or someone that is innately better than they are.America has ALWAYS been resented, hated and maligned for being, well, America. I cannot honestly say that I give a damn about them, or the "civilians" that McCain may have killed during bombing missions 40 yrs ago,or the civilians in Iraq or anywhere else...WAR is ugly, there is NO SUCH THING as a "humane war". A war WON is the only war worth fighting.Get used to it. If you do not have the balls to go and serve and take orders from your superiors and do what you were sent to do, even under the most restrictive and ill conceived "rules of engagement" ever utilized, you relinquish your right to question others who do. For the vets who have lost their center, you may have served, but to compare Mccain's military backround to Obama's, wow, thats a quite a quiet moment, no? How does Obama's complete lack of ANY military backround or supervisory postions qualify him to run the US? Honestly? What is it you all see in him that you did not see in Hillary or McCain or Romney, or any other earlier candidate?
As a side note, yes, the hub bub over Shelley's stoopid comments was overblown and unnecessary, as is your hysterical ranting that McCain's comments are relevant ANOTHER 40 years later. Even if what they each said was true, as it sounded....so what? Many of us do not appreciate the huge GIFT being an American is...often times until we travel to other parts of the world and see how our lives, our standards of living, our true freedoms, are so much better , even our "poor" live like kings, compared to what REAL poverty is. And REAL restricted freedoms are. Apparently Michelle needs to go get fitted for a burka or spend some time in a lower African nation as a poor woman and then see how proud she is of the USA. Bet her proud-O- meter goes up astronomically. No one here has ever tried to circumcise her daughters, correct? It is a classic example of Mazlow's theory of the hierarchy of needs...the fewer "required" needs one has to worry about, the more time one has to spend worrying over the more philosophical needs..hence the "elitist" labels.
Stop throwing shit against the walls people and argue definable, tangible, relevant topics. THATS when you will not be considered mouth breathing turds.
I have been asking the same question.
http://thesarcasticcynic.blogspot.com/2008/05/j...
John McCain keeps touting his "war experience" but lets face it the vast majority of his war experience consists of sitting in a cell.
John McCain is a victim of torture, and he has my sympathy, but that doesn't mean I want him to be my President.
Yup, you are a conservative.
You need to read my posting better....I said I have NOT been subjected to torture, so I couldn't be a judge of his behavior on that point. In regards to respect, you are missing the point ENTIRELY. I show all soldier's respect. It doesn't, however give them an automatic, critical proof shield which is what people like you want it to be. If McCain touts his military experience as being suitable for the role of President, then by all means lets take an objective look at his record. Bottom of his class at the academy, crashed 5 planes (some of them not in combat, on US soil), lackluster leadership and failure to be promoted to admiral.....His finest moment was when he did refuse to be released out of turn in Vietnam. Also, why does someone not having been in the military mean they don't have any character? And just because someone was in the military doesn't mean they do have character or are a good person. Just ask the MP's.....PS I was in the US Army, so show some respect to me.
The obvious question in evaluating whether race has been a factor would be to ask the simple question: would Senator Obama be leading the popular vote by 3% (by just 300,000 votes of 21 million cast) and the overall delegate count by 69, if it were not for racial preference. The answer, unequivocally, is no. Admittedly, there are many non racial factors contributing to the current cumulative results for the candidates, however it is undeniable, given how close this primary is, that race is the tipping point in Obama’s favor.
Among the many racial biases interjected into this selection process in Senator Obama’s favor, by far, the most obvious is a simple assessment of the African American vote. With African Americans making up approximately 10% of the primary vote and going for Obama better than 80% it is simple arithmetic that tells us the narrow lead that he cautiously enjoys, would not exist, had African Americans not favored him so heavily. Should greater society stand by and not question this racial bias that is in no way even close to other voting blocks, or should they scream foul that this vote represents, in effect, reverse discrimination. Of course, political correctness tells us not to go there, so many think it, but will never say it. (Oprah claimed that her support of the senator had nothing to do with his ethnicity – can Americans takes her seriously since this is her first support of a candidate in any race; and now Lewis Farrakhan supports Senator Obama – by no means an independent nonracial backing)
Much harder to measure, but unquestionably a part of Senator Obama’s success is a simple lack of willingness on the part of various prescient forces to criticize anything “Barack” for fear of appearing racist. Media surveys and many pundits now acknowledge he has been given a “free ride” and hit with “velvet gloves” especially when honestly compared to the hard hitting attacks from all angles that Senator Clinton has had to endure day in and day out, throughout her campaign. Of course there are other forces at play but certainly politicians, pundits, networks, and even super delegates are swayed by this gravitational pull that seems to demand the need for political correctness in the spirit of an ever increasing racially “affirmative” response.
Senator Obama, his campaign and many surrogates are fond of comparing him to President John F Kennedy, one of the youngest and most vibrant presidents in America’s history. The Kennedy comparison is grossly suspect, yet the press espouses it without remorse …President Kennedy, a decorated war hero, a Pulitzer price winner before his presidency (the only president to ever win a Pulitzer) who spent six years in the national house of representatives and four years as a senator before being elected obviously ranks superior to Senator Obama’s limited experience of two years in the senate and eight years as a state senator from a lone Illinois district.
Many non-African Americans have encountered reverse discrimination in one form or another either directly or through someone they know. Many have been past by for entrance to college, for jobs or promotions or for business contracts that gave preference to minorities, who in many cases were not as well qualified. It now appears that Americans are on the verge of ceding the country’s presidency to an African American based as much on the same preferential treatment that permeates many parts of society i.e. that Barak Obama may not be the best qualified but he is special because he is the first “African American” politician to come along with his unique skill sets and background and therefore should get a pass on his credentials namely a lack of foreign policy and executive experience along with a sparse legislative record and a hollow campaign promise of “change”. All things being equal would a white candidate with the exact same credentials’ be leading this race today – of course not.
Glenn Fillis, is a senior columnist and fellow with the New American Enterprise Institute."
Never heard of this site until a few minutes ago, but I'd like to just add this;
Do we, as regular, run-of-the-mill citizens really and truly know what our government does behind closed doors? Do we voting citizens know the whole truth about the politicians and government agencies? Or do we just know what the government and the media wants us to believe? I'm certainly not one of those 'conspiricy theorists', so as an idealistic American I'd like to believe that the government tries to 'do the right thing' for the average citizen, but in my heart unfortunately, I feel the government leans towards appeasing themselves, corporations, lobbyists and whom ever they might be trying to 'do a favor' for. It's sad that we the people have to feel this way about our government.
I can't trust any one point of view in either extreme direction. Extremists from any party are usually always wrong and I find them deplorable. Doesn't anybody REALLY have an open mind anymore? Or are we all just so blind in favor of our party's candidate and point of view that we shut down and can't listen to any opposing point of view? (and better yet, we feel we must call that point of view completely idiotic and also call that person names.... just sad.)
Unless one is at or near the highest government level in the White House, we'll never really what goes on in this country. (although there appears to be many people here who seem to think that they know, and with strong conviction I might add)
The only thing we can say with certainty is this; it's very clear that the country has never been managed this poorly at any time in it's history. The USA is in some dire need of change. Is it the fault of the politicians? No, I don't believe it is entirely their fault. More so, I believe it's the collective actions of society in general as well as government direction.
As far as our current 2 up for the job, we have one that is the 'business as usual' career politician. Should we just expect more of the same 'ole BS? Probably. My own personal view is, sure, we should be proud he served in any capacity, but a 'true' hero, meh...not really. Does it matter in the grand scheme of things to run the country? As a well educated person, I'd also go with a 'not really'. But if he constantly touting his service record, then all of it absolutely should be made available to the public and let the public decide. If there's nothing, great! But not showing the complete record makes people wonder and speculate that it's something negative, even if there isn't anything earth shattering.
Would McCain be a good President? Maybe. I'd give him a chance. Hey, it couldn't be much worse than where we are now!
On the 'other side' we have somebody who at first glance seems a little less 'politician-like', appears to be idealistic and wants good things for the country. Will he be good? For someone to give a definitive 'yes' or 'no' would just be another closed-minded individual speaking because he/she can only speculate on things they've heard through the usual suspect information outlets. It's reasonable to say that at least he appears to really want to try. But will he cause change? Again, probably not, but at least we'll have someone willing to try new things.
As far as the experience issue, the lack there of may be a good thing. Lack of experience will often times lead to someone thinking out of the box instead of the usual way to deal with an issue. I for one, am a skilled technician with 23 years on the job, (what the profession is doesn't really matter for my point). But recently I had a problem that wasn't able to be solved in the usual fashion. When someone I know who has no clue how to perform my job or practical theory of it, gave me a suggestion, I just shrugged it off and thought he was crazy. Well, for sh*ts and giggles I tried it, and guess what? It solved the issue. Since then, I've never looked at inexperience the same way. History can show us many examples of this.
Bottom line is maybe we should try to impliment change. The economy is in ruins, the rest of the world hates us, or doesn't respect us much, so what the hell, what do we have to lose?
McCain's record shows he is out of touch and possibly slightly insane.
One point proven, the emotional outburst and hissy fit one, is in half of these postings. COMMAND EXPERIENCE? Nowhere.
~ BTW I re-checked the McCain site's "action center" and found they are giving points for Troll postings on Daily Kos and Crooksandliars, but NOT here!? WTF? It kinda looks like someone is giving some points out somewhere from the number and quality of postings on this thread. I find I am a little miffed Americablog did not rank. Officially. Yet Oh Well. ~
Son of privilege, bottom of his class, got captured and survived - It's a strange personal experience I do not think but a handful of people on the planet could identify with. He is NOT an average serving service member The other parts of his background have more in common with GW Bush than me, or anybody else who has posted on this thread so far.
On the one hand, he fought, and suffered greatly as a result of his choices, and served his country. On the other hand, son and grandson of admirals, what kind of choice was it? We do not know. And to give him the benefit of the doubt, which is only proper and decent, we'll say it was 100% honorable and 0% selfish and move on. This is a personal matter of personal honor, the way I see it, and cannot be judged by me nor any of us. And as such John's question DID NOT impugn his personal honor.
However, you can't have your cake and eat it too - if you use aspects of your personal honor in public, like a bludgeon frankly, or others do on your behalf, THAT is fair game. And ALL examples of using 'partiotism' as a weapon, like the dishonorable swiftboating of Kerry etc are all fair to compare with his current tactics. Using the concept of patriotism, and preying upon the patriotism of supporters using their sympathy and pride in their shared military service (or professed desire to have served.) That's not change, and that's not change anybody can believe in.
Shouting about what kind of hero you are, or allowing others to do so on your behalf kinda undoes the 'heroic' part of the heroism stuff, regardless of where on the 'scale' of heroism you put being a POW. It just doesn't smell right. Probably because it is not right.
Did McCain's experience make him more knowledgeable of geopolitical conditions? Like George Bush he thinks we could have won the Vietnam war with more force and does not seem to have at his commend a working knowledge of our CURRENT conflict at all. Neither his war experience of forty years ago nor his congressional career of decades to the present - none of those seemed to have helped.
All the veterans I have talked to and read writing about their issues do not count McCain as someone who is doing Jack Shit for them, and are puzzled and angry at the contradiction between his actions and his war experience, which is gone over again, and again and again like Giuliani and 9-11. He has the record of a selfish conservative Republican, not that of a concerned veteran, even if he, coincidentally, is a veteran.
Does surviving a horror for your country and or cause make you a hero? If so we are making hundreds of heroes for the other side in GITMO, all with McCain's blessing. Is that a result of his experience and does that make him more qualified? I do not know for sure, but it does not make the question nor questioner out of line.
So he was, or is, a Hero, and pardon me for going back to the original question, but SO WHAT?
I know it is distasteful to put that way, but when it's been made a public issue and one that purports to carry some meaning and impart some magical experience qualifying one for governance - pony up. Let's hear WHAT that is and WHY. In McCain's case I do not see it.
This is what McCain is doing about it: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/30/mccain...
Is this a heroic or honorable act?
So John omitted "equivalent to" before General. Everybody knows the reference to the Army rank of General is relevant because of the recent comments of General Wesley Clark. Cutting John some earned slack for an error he would be free in admitting and correcting is due.
Cutting you slack for a gratuitously snarky comment is not due.
Pony up: WHAT in McCain's military experience qualifies him for promotion to Commander In Chief?
"For those who fight for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know"
Or should I say "No Screaming Eagle shit?"
McCain is standing on the idea of him being a HERO (a PRISONER) Clark is not standing on that issue and he was issued in service also and is a GENERAL. Military experience must be treated with respect to rank if McCain is to claim it as qualification and not the idea of just because he was a (PRISONER).
the Great General Clark was FIRED AS SUPREME COMMANDER OF
NATO!!!!! So General Clark is in no position to judge Sen. McCains military
record. Get your facts straight!!!!
I personally am not a fan of Senator McCain's, but he retired from the Naval reserves just 1 pay-grade behind General Clark. As for command experience, his is plenteous... when he left active duty for the reserves he held the rank of Captain (Bird Colonel in other branches) one pay grade behind flag rank. in the reserves he ascended to Rear Admiral.
For you to post a bunch of junk you so obviously have not researched shows either great liberal bias, or perhaps a great qualification for employment with the New York Times.
You don't know me. Therefore you can't say anything about "guys like" me. Got that? You can read what I have posted and get a clue.
As a purported veteran don't you feel a bit USED by someone using what could be seen as a 'veteran card' to get your knee-jerk support - or knee-jerk defense against folk you are set up to perceive as a veteran's enemy?? Like you are doing against me? I would.
But it's not about ME. It's about bigger things that affect us all.
This blog is for thinking rational citizens of all stripes, so back to the topic, regardless of what we may or may not think of each other:
Besides "plentious" experience, presumably while an active pilot, what kind of specific training for strategic policy decisions and command and organization is it that is given to a Navy Captain of McCain's generation? Pony up. Tell me if you can.
Besides if creditials to be President is to be captured; I want the one who captured McCain to protect me --not McCain.
1) McCain DOES NOT talk about his torture every 5 minutes
2) Anyone with basic knowledge of military promotion process knows that one does not get promoted as a POW - thus McCain lost 5 1/2 years of promotion eligibility.
3) He displayed great character and courage by not accepting release from the NVN because he was Admirtal McCain's son - That is the fundamental issue. This is in contrazt to Hanoi Jane, and (most of the current Hollywood acotrs who talk a good game. Notice how few of them are going to Iran to confront the Ayotollahs, or go to Iraq to show their solidarity?.
Finally, on a more substantive note - notice how Obama is gradually shifting his position re: troop levels in Iran, His intial position was to parrot the Leftist anti-war position - , he was calling for total withdrawal by March 2008 becaus ethe 2007 surge was doomed to failure (sic),
Then it was total withdrawal w/i 12 months if elected.
Then it is withdrawal of combat troops,
Now it is withdrawal of 1 brigade a month depending on the advice of the commanders .
Next it will be 'he will listen to the recommendations of the commanders in the field.
NET - no significant difference from the current strategy. He reluctantly admits that the surge has been successful in achieving some degree of security and economic and political progress.
You MOVEON.ORG and CODEPINK MFB types must really be upset at your inability to get the total withdrawal that you promised in 2006 when the Dems took control of Congress.
OBTW - is international EU and UN diplomacy working in Iran?
Don't ya think that's what your drill Sargent would scream at you if you tried to pull that bullshit sass on him in answer to or or comment upon his topic? If, that is, you really have served in any branch of service. For the sake of argument I will ass u me you have.
If I might glean an answer from your post it would be that McCain would have gotten all that training and experience, save for the 5 years he was confined. Whatever that might be, which, considering the amount of self-styled patriotic and military postings NOBODY HAS EXPLAINED in any detail whatsoever. I am supposing that had McCain served in action those 5 years and gotten training and promotion then he might be as well qualified as you to serve as Commander in Chief? I can sleep better now, thanks.
Jane Fonda? Code Pink? WTF? PTSD much? One thing's for sure, President Obama will not cut your VA disability. A President McCain probably would.
OBTW - I was an Air Force officer during the Vietnam era, but thankfuilly
did not serve intheater, unlike many of my relatives, friends, and fellow
officers.
What were you doing during that time - watching Jane Fonda? Voting for JFK
and LBJ who got us into Vietnam and significantly escalated the US
involvement that lead to > 58,000 US nilitary deaths, and millions of
civilians?
I can't find anything, You who may indeed have been a member of more than just the 101st Fighting Keyboardists, might be able to provide insight. Instead you type a lot of outdated BS about Hanoi Jane and odd references to Code Pink, which has been mentioned by no one else on this thread nor in the topic
Perhaps I should have said "Stuck in the past much?" except that is not an affliction that McCain could direct the VA to deny you benefits for - as his voting record as a Senator shows he would if he could.
I did prod you to respond, but instead of responding to the actual topic you responded to me and who and what you think I am. It's not about me. It's about the country you claim to have served.
McCain did his patriotic duty to serve a Democratic Adminsitration that
started the Vietnam War (JFK) and prolonged it (LBJ). McCain flew numerous
combat missions, and survived years of torture.
What did you do?
McCain and the professional military leaders opposed the WebbVA proposal for
sound organizational reasons. Webb's (and the anti-war Left - Murtha,
Pelosiui, et.al.) successful hidden agenda is to emsculate the military by
encouraging the more experienced military to leave after three years to be
replaced by younger, less experiernced ones. The result will be a younger,
less experienced military, with more casualties, higher costs for training
benefits, etc.
Original Message -----
Honestly, your response is "nothing." Which is not necessarily a bad thing, but, honestly, that's what it is. Why gild the lily? Everything you mentioned qualifying McCain, that is not in fact torture, are things he did AFTER his military service.
And as humiliating as this must be for you for this to be pointed out by someone you label "MFB," which you call "Mush For Brains," I cannot help but observe that McCain served HIS COUNTRY, which is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT from serving "a Democratic Adminsitration that started the Vietnam War. " It may sound the same but it is not.
Your words betray your purported military experience and on this day are particularly dishonorable.
And your characterization of Webb introducing anything that would "emasculate" the military is especially laughable.
See you on another thread, maybe, one that you can perhaps actually bring some ideas to.
objective, and not resort to ad hominum insulting comments.
We obviously disagree about the improtance of wartime service.
I agree that they Countery and the Admin are not identical, but the
Democratic Admin and Congress reepresented the country's policies in the
1960's, just as you leftists assert that GWB does today. You acn't have it
both ways
On another point, I stand by my Webb comments - they also are appropriate
for Murtha, Kennedy, and all the others in the Congress who prematurley
denigrated the Marines in Iraq.
Semper Fi
The topic is "Honestly, besides being tortured, what did McCain do to excel in the military?" - with the related 'What kind of training did he receive that qualifies him more than anyone else, for Comander In Chief.'
It's OK if you don't know anything, just more honorable if you said so, like the previous poster, rather than going on some weird tangents.
I apologize if I typed my previous comment in a way you thought was derogatory or dismissive of PTSD, or if I hurt your feelings, but if you really are a Marine then I am sure you can take it . Yet as a Marine I wonder how you feel about McCain's record helping veterans to date. My friend who has to deal with the VA regularly paints a horrible picture, and I don't ever discuss McCain with him for fear of not being able to stop the vitriol. Of course that's a bit off topic but at least related, something to think about.
As I mentioned yesterday, the smartest thing Barack could do would be to distance himself from some of these assenine leftist comments. And just today, here he was:
At a news conference here Monday, McCain himself said of Clark's comment, "That kind of thing is unnecessary" and distracts from real pocketbook issues voters care about.
About the same time, Obama told an audience in Independence, Mo., that McCain had "endured physical torment in service to our country" and "no one should ever devalue that service, especially for the sake of a political campaign, and that goes for supporters on both sides."
Wake up you lefty assholes. The vast majority of Americans respect our military and honor their sacrifices. I'm glad Barack gets it. Hopefully you fools won't cost him the election by pissing off sensible voters.
False: Clark's statements yesterday bear any resemblance to those of some of the idiots here, including Susanai. When you say the "vast majority of Americans respect our military and honor their sacrifices," you're talking about Wesley Clark. As he explicitly said yesterday, McCain has always been a hero of his. Obama "gets" that the media was going to make a huge issue of this. Don't think for a second that he really wanted to distance himself from Clark's completely reasonable thesis: that McCain's wartime constitution (which I think is remarkable) has any bearing on his presidential bona fides. I can see good arguments on both side of that opinion, but the idea that Clark was devaluing McCain's service is ludicrous.
The congressional district he ran in Illinois is the highest crime ridden murder rated in the country and is a district in which he himself couldn't even walk down the street safely at night seeing that he's more white than African American. The only thing this guy will ever get elected to is where he is today.......... as once he loses the campaign he's in now he will be finished in politics altogether, as even brainless liberals will realize how worthless he is after losing the shoe in campaign following the "dreaded Bush presidency". You miserable BDS sufferers hate him so much for so long now you've lost touch with reality.
So lets see here, we've got a lifelong servant to America in one way or another and a War hero if there ever was one or Barack Hussein FauxBama Jr, fake and fraud through and through?
Gee, That's a tough one..........first strike since Obama isn't even a true African American, second strike he isn't even a senior senator for cripes sake..third strike he's a sellout to both race he claims to be from , throwin both whitey and blackie under the bus at the same time both from his family, not to mention his Arabic roots he pretends not to have, so thats a billion muslims under the bus too while he's at it
What a con job,
How pathetic can you liberals be to think that big eared half honkey has anything it takes to be a leader of anything? I wouldn't even but crack from him if I smoked it ...like he admittedly did.
First of all your online name is reprehensible....and immediately makes blog readers think you're a racist before they ever read your statements. Second, your comments show just how ignorant you are. Bring something real to the conversation. Third and most importantly, you sound like you'd hate Obama if he stuck to any of his various ethnic heritages.....what does the fact that he's half African American, that he's half white and his father was a Muslim have to do with anything? It doesn't.
BrentB50
MSgt, USAF, Retired
I'm going to use your argument the next time a male rants about pregnant females killing their babies.
By "torture," you mean the practices of the United States?
Gosh, one would expect that someone with wartime experiences like McCain's would be a champion for vet care and benefits and surely they would not send more servicepersons into unnecessary wars.
BrentB50
MSgt, USAF, Retired
As for your whining over GITMO, if you think I will lose one minute's sleep over doing what it takes to save American lives, you're nuts. As a matter of fact, most of those terrorist scumbags get 3 hots and a cot, prayer time with their 7th Century screed (aka the Koran), and a hellof alot more humane treatment than they give the people they capture, torture and behead.
Bottom line: We shouldn't take any prisoners.
SFC Cheryl McElroy
US ARMY (RET)
Iraq War Veteran
To the nihilist jackoffs attacking John McCain’s military record and ordeal as a POW:
Stick to what you do best; screeching like little milksops over your socialist candidate and dodging service to the country, while brave Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, and Airmen do the heavy lifting.
SFC Cheryl McElroy
US ARMY (RET)
Iraq War Veteran
So this is where all this McCain crap is coming from? You're trying to Swift Boat John McCain. Good luck! He's 10 times the man Kerry will ever be.
Numskull, I doubt seriously if you have the capacity to recognize which is the best man.
By the way, McCain has said he never really loved America until he served in Vietnam. Does that also speak volumes about him?
I want to see the statement you say about McCain and loving America. You don't join the military without a love of country.
I'll bet you were one of those people out there screaming that we could not question John Kerry's military service during the last election, weren't you?
I think McCain's service shouldn't be picked apart like Kerry's was, but I think the relevance of his service to his performance as president should be discussed, which is the discussion that Wes Clark tried to start.
And you may not be calling Obama Hitler, but leave the crazy analogies at home. Every candidate for every political office who's challenging an incumbent brings a message of change; should we invoke the specter of concentration camps in every single campaign? as I said, no one takes you seriously when you say stuff like that.
This makes me seriously ill. There are many things you could say about McCain, but to question his military service!
I have never had much hostility or ill will against the far left, but after reading this I am truly enlightened.
My god! you question McCain yet support a candidate that has given NOTHING to this country. NOTHING
What sad little people you are.
1970 – Obama living the hard life at a prestigious private school and watching Different Strokes in the evening.
You guys are right. Obama was torture more, no big deal
Ding! Ding! Ding!
You win the Most Ridiculous Comment award today...and, Hunny, that's saying sumpthin'!
And here's another thing, dipwad, the biggest military hero to run for President since Eisenhower is probably George McGovern. Look it up, dumbfuck.
Jeez, all you McAincient-lickin trolls qualify for membership in the Mean-Spirited Little Pricks Club with Lil Johnnie and Dubs.