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NOW!
So, until all the votes are in and the Senate is seated, and Ted Stevens is dealth with -- let Lieberman stay. Deal with him later.
Revenge is a dish best served cold.
I DON'T TRUST HIM!!!!!!!!!!!
"Traitor Joe needs to go!"
snark!
I think maybe Reid could get a couple of focus groups together, and help him with some input into this thing.... like... you know... he is actually the leader of a major party in a SEPERATE branch... or something!
Same goes for Nancy. Weak sauce... all the way around. Lead, Follow, or get the hell out of the way! Well, it is time for both Nancy and Harry to start leading... or choose another option and give up their power positions. The days of them claiming "to wait for the next election" ARE OVER. LEAD, FOLLOW, OR GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY!
Umm...isn't Harry Reid a mormon? Via wiki:
Reid is a first generation member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Reid and his wife, who was born to Jewish parents, converted to Mormonism while Reid was a college student.
Color me confused....
"And I suspect Bill Marriott, as a good Mormon, gives 10% of his gross income to the Mormon church as is required. And the Mormon church is personally responsible for taking away our rights in California. We were winning on Prop 8 until the Mormons parachuted in and dropped as much as $20 million (one estimate is that Mormons gave 77% of the entire budget the bigots had to push Prop 8). The Mormons did this to us. So I have a problem with enriching Bill Marriott so that he can enrich bigots who take away our civil rights (and who convert dead Jewish Holocaust victims to Mormonism without their families' consent, among other nasty things).
It doesn't matter if Bill Marriott didn't give to Prop 8. He is a major donor to the Mormon Church. And they use that money to impose their religious views on others, whether you like it or not."
Still confused at an apparent double standard. I'm no fan of Reid, btw, I think he should be replaced by Feingold immediately.
Selectively tarring a group and individual members for their participation in a questionable religious institution, only to flip 180ยบ, despite equal participation, when it happens to be "one of ours." I'm thinking if the meme were taken to its logical conclusion, John would be calling for Reid's head, i.e. defeat/replacement in the next election by a more qualified dem, and beginning that process.
Perhaps John's wrath is somehow meant to be interpreted by degrees....
While Reid does not own a massive business, he does pay into the funding that passed a hateful law. Add to the fact that Reid supported DOMA (according to Glenzilla):
"Democrats have a particular responsibility to erase the stain of DOMA. It was Bill Clinton who signed DOMA into law. It passed overwhelmingly in the Senate (85-14) with massive Democratic support, including from Democratic icons such as Paul Wellstone, Chris Dodd, Pat Leahy, Tom Daschle, Patty Murray, Harry Reid, Barbara Mikulski, and the new Vice President-elect, Joe Biden (interestingly, Democrats ranging from Russ Feingold and Dianne Feinstein to Virginia's Chuck Robb and Nebraska's Bob Kerrey voted against it)."
That's two strikes right there. John also brought up the viability of threatening livelihood:
"Now, here's the funny part. About two weeks ago, the hateful religious right and Mormon bigots running the Yes on 8 campaign threatened the livelihood of anyone who donated to the No on 8 campaign. Uh oh. I see a little goose and gander coming."
Now, while I understand this is in reference to donating $1k to prop 8, John pointedly did not excuse Bill Marriott and in fact cited him precisely because he was a mormon, not because he contributed anything:
"And I suspect Bill Marriott, as a good Mormon, gives 10% of his gross income to the Mormon church as is required. And the Mormon church is personally responsible for taking away our rights in California."
Would not calling for replacing Harry Reid, the mormon, also deny our enriching him through taxpayer dollars so he could continue to donate to a hateful institution? (He believes marriage should remain and be defined between a man and a woman exclusively.) This is a glaringly valid example and one for which I am still confused, but I'll drop it lest I find myself banned for being, shall we say, overly inquisitive and inconvenient.
No, I wouldn't say that, more the word choice of those either expressing inevitability, or seeking to impose it. In this case, I believe it's the former.
"I love irony. He announced that gay marriage was here to stay, whether you like it or not. Guess he was wrong, whether you like it or not."
In point of fact, he was not wrong. The partisan juggling and legal suppression will not squelch the legitimate determination of same-sex couples to be legally recognized and accorded the same rights as heterosexual couples; any more than such regressive tactics prevented blacks or women their rights to vote. You mistake the lagging of the courts for the stamp of moral clarity. Were one to judge based on such short-sighted premises, there would be no desegregation, whites would still be barred from marrying people outside of their race, and Barack Obama would be prohibited from the presidency.
It's the inevitability you obviously object to, which compels you to cling to and promote each setback as a final pronouncement. Gay marriage's time will, in fact, arrive "whether you like it or not."
If the Democratic majority has a tombstone, that's the epitaph.
Let me also point out that FDR didn't get cranked up building america until he got a filibuster-proof 60 dem senate seats.. (2yrs after he first got in)
I just called both my senators and the staff picked up right away, so not many people are calling. Good time to get on the phone to your senators..
1. Joe will have subpoena power. He refused to use it on the bushies, but I he will find all sorts of concocted reason to investigate Barack Obama's government
2. He will turn into Obama's Dan Burton...the guy in the House who proved Foster was killed by someone having to do with Bill Clinton.
One of the benefits of contolling a branch is the ability to do oversight...the good kind...to actually make things function better and the bad kind...which will Joe Lieberman Dan Burton's twin.
that is being given up
3. You get discipline by letting members know there are consequences for not observing that discipline. Reid is going to have a very hard time with that, with enforcing cohesion on cloture votes.
And Reid knows that.....I think you are apportioning blame for this potential debacle...unfairly here. Reid began the process, put his foot in the water and his finger in the wind...and the wind and the Water known as the Presidient Elect made it clear what he wanted. Reid was undercut and undermined.
It is poor strategic thinking on the Presidient Elect's part. He is mistakenly, I think, under the view that Joe will stay in line..or that he can keep Joe in line...Just because you run a good race doesn't mean that you will stay all powerful in the future.
So far I have 67 people contacting these Senators, we are telling them we will help fund viable candidates in the primaries with the goal to not only defeat LIEberman but them also, just as I worked hard to elect Obama I will work twice to end their time in the Senate.
Anybody with me?
they are not 'real world'. they are spineless, corporate-loving, middle-class crushing, war-promoting, well-connected, neo-liberal sobs - and that type of behavior has been killing the dems since kennedy.
Lieberman matters. What he did matters. In the real world you talk about. He crossed the line. There has to be repercussions from his peers lest the entire Democratic party be painted with the broad brush of "gutless" and unwilling to make tough decisions.
Lieberman is USELESS to the Republicans except for two days of publicity. Will the "deeply principled" Mr. Lieberman violate a lifetime of voting and start voting against his constituents and his conscience just to spite the Democrats?
I'd like to see him try. Let him caucus with the Republicans, if they'll have him. He made this freaking bed, and he should be man enough to lie in it.
But it's not going to happen. When it comes down to it, Washington power reigns supreme. THAT'S what Reid, Pelosi, and Obama are all risking here. They are going to lose the grassroots with this, and they think that's just fine. Is there any other conclusion to reach?
This is the 2012 election we are watching here. And we don't have a vote anymore. Get ready for President Pawlenty. God.
http://www.actblue.com/page/do-it-for-max
This is one of the reasons I became unaffiliated over a year ago. I'm tired of Dems "making nice" to traitors and those who gave Bush a pass all these years.
You're really bordering on obsession with this the way you did when you took on Hillary.
If Barack can move on, as the target of it and the one most-betrayed, we should be able to, or we look like the mean girls on the steps at high school who would hold a grudge just for fun.
I'm starting to think you live for the high drama of taking people on. Luckily for us, most of the time it's aimed at bigots who deserve it.
The leader of the party said forgive and forget, as part of his "we all have to be in this together." If you want to talk about getting things done, it's called hopping on that ship.
It IS about what the Democratic leadership (if we can call it that) is going to do about Joe. There HAS to be a standard by which certain behavior meets a reasoned and thorough conclusion. Note to Senator Reid: Joe is a traitor. To his party and his state and his country. If that sounds like hyperbole, I suggest you review statements he made about his party and the future President of the United States. Note to Senator Dodd: You and were and are my hero on the FISA fight but your decision to aid Lieberman in his efforts to retain his gavel is gross and deeply insulting.
Stop it.
Sounds like Obama's taking Bush's advice on how to ruin the country.
Equally, we can be just as angry and insulted at his decision to aid Lieberman. It will do exactly the opposite of what he accomplished during his FISA fight. He needs to quit it. Call him. It helps.
They just won a majority and the lot of them are STILL cowering to the Goopers. Shall we start a pool on which Bush atrocities DON'T get overturned?
Harry, YOU SUCK!
When every single thing the Dem leadership ever does helps or rewards the GOP position and undermines the values of the Democratic Party, what other conclusion can one draw?
The Dems WANT to lose! That they won this election has thrown them into a tizzy and they are desperate to show their Republican owners that they are good house slaves.
The Democratic leadership will NEVER challenge the GOP position. They will always cave in to even the tiniest GOP whine. They will NEVER oppose the GOP, ever! Just watch.
Joe doesn't investigate anything that will come out about wiretapping, torture,and anything else illegal Bushco did for the past 8 years. The same way Joe investigated Katrina since '06.
He's a mormon too...wonder how he feels about prop8?
IMHO Reid and Liebershit both should be kicked out of the caucus. Pelosi too,
WE SORELY NEED PROGRESSIVES not these posers.
I thought I voted for CHANGE.
Now we are having "more of the same".
Seriously, if this is what they are starting with you pretty much have pissed off a lot of people - and ruined chances for a 2nd term.
Letting LIEberman stay as Chairman is telling Americans that Democrats are still people with NO SPINE.
What a shame!
There's gonna be a vote, so we'll see what happens.
Maybe not burrowing into retribution and revenge is somebody's idea of change. Sure I would love to see Joe Lieberman kicked to the curb. He's an asshole on every level.
But booting the asshole's ass isn't going to prevent a single foreclosure, it isn't going to get national healthcare, and it isn't going to overturn Prop 8.
For me, I'd far rather see the Democrats focus on governing over politics any day.
I am not a Reid fan and feel he is ineffective and wish he was not the senate leader. I just don't think he is good at this.
Myself, I am waiting to see to what is going to happen and how this plays out. Too many times people have jumped the gun and got all emotional on things and it turns out not to be the case. Then everyone feels foolish and embarrassed. And with all the misinformation floating around since the election, we simply don't know for sure what is really going on and why. I do think if Lieberman is kept around there is a reason behind it. Don't know what it is but, the democrats are really upset with the guy so, they may have him around for some reason that we may not know about for awhile.
If it comes out they just caved to him I will be really pissed off. But, if there is some good reason, depending...
For now, I am holding my fire.
The only direct remarks that I can recall from Sen. Reid were that he wanted to keep Lieberman in the caucus but that there would have to be compromises made. It appears to me that all the noise being made by Sen. Lieberman and his supporters is simply an effort, hopefully vain, to prevent the necessity of any "compromise". So far it doesn't appear to be working.
We really have no idea of just what Sen. Reid is up to, other than the fact that he wishes, as does Sen. Obama, to keep Sen. Leiberman in the Democratic Caucus - a far different thing than allowing Sen. Lieberman to retain his present chairmanship. And face it, when you are dealing with someone who has the ego of Joe Lieberman, trying to keep him the caucus while stripping him of his current chair could take some doing. Or so I would imagine...
Politics is about action. Lieberman didn't just betray his party, he betrayed the country and himself. Feel sorry for him if you are so inclined. But the man endorsed two incompetent fools with romantic beliefs that lead straight to hell. Obama does not need friends like L, nor does the dem caucus.
If it's time for change in Washington, it's time to tell the spineless that the gooey, mindless days are over. Put Lieberman out to pasture with his buddy McCain. Let the maverick and the whiner react. Both are masters of reaction.
Not exactly what you hope to find in a man.
But letting him keep his chairmanship? That's wrong for two reasons.
1) Lieberman has no leverage. If Reid capitulates to his demands, without even making him move an inch, when he has no leverage, that really is pathetic. You could probably steal Harry Reid's wallet by asking him nicely, he'd be too afraid to say no.
2) More importantly... Joe Lieberman is horrible in that position. Atrocious. The policies he supports have done horrible things to our nation. Even if he were in perfect standing in the party, he needs to be at the very least moved to another committee, for pure incompetence.
Who benefits for Lieberman to keep the chair of the Homeland Security Committee? Certainly not US citizens. Who is pressuring others to support Holy Joe or do they themselves think Sen. Quislingman is the right person to be in this position?
Either way, it stinks.
This isn't about enforcing party purity. It's about not saying, "Please sir, may I have another" when getting kicked in the jewels by a pol with no loyalties to anyone but himself and Israel.