Seems to me, anyone who thinks Clinton was robbed and wants to teach Obama a lesson should...oh, I don't know...FIND A WOMAN RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT AND VOTE FOR HER! WRITE IN A FEMALE NAME! VOTE FOR ANYONE WITH NOT-A-PENIS! It's still a supid thing to do, but better than giving it to a candidate who will do everything he can to keep you broke, in Iraq (or your loved ones in iraq), and eventually with no right to choose.
You can be a martyr without being stupid about it. Voting for McCain to teach Obama and his supporters a lesson is like being angry at your boyfriend or husband so you strap on some f***-me pumps and start giving a lap dance to an undermedicated Mike Tyson. Yeah, THAT'LL teach him!
ZennButtKicker (tlhwraith)
· 1 year ago
The piece, if it gets wide circulation, will piss off some people, but it's point is pretty clear. The crux of the argueement, and it is huge, isn't that there wasn't some sexism against Hillary (there was), but the source. Seems like everyone agrees the media was the major source, so not voting for Obama is a pretty childish way of "punishing" the media. If anything, all that is happening now is the media is milking the "angry-white-women-Clinton-voter" story for every last drop it can drain.
I also love the part when he said that black people would have just sucked it up and voted for Clinton anyway, if Obama didn't win. That is a subjective arguement, but there's a lot of compelling anecdotal evidence to support it (like polling data). Black folks for decades have supported less-than-optimal candidates simply because they were better than the GOP alternative.
Also, its interesting to me that the discussion of race is tap-danced around so much. It is the very obvious 800lb gorilla in the room. I will assert that for every allegation of sexism there could easily be 2 or 3 allegations of racism. We all know that the GOP tactic is centered on making Obama out as the "radical muslim with the funny name who isn't mainstream enough to be POTUS". In other words, he's got too much mustard and not enough mayo (an old expression my grandparents used). However, because obamas campaign has been so disciplined and almost out of necessity must downplay the racism aspects of the campaign, no one outside the MSM and the GOP are really addressing it. At some point I'd really love one night where Obama isn't in "trouble" with latinos, jews, or white women simply because of the perceived racial tensions with those groups (in reality, polling data shows him with a lead amongst all those groups).
I think the writing is tough, but the message is real clear, stop being mad at the wrong people. Fighting sexism, not many folks have a problem with that, but not supporting Obama and the Dems is surely the least effective way of fighting, in fact given McCains history in some ways the cause of feminism is pushed backwards with him in office.
mirth
· 1 year ago
Interesting about-face regards whether AA would vote for Hillary if she were the candidate. Before your comments, based on your personal interactions within the AA community, stated that the opposite was true even if she were only the VP choice.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
Greetings wraith. If I remember correctly, you did tell me that you would have voted for Clinton if she did manage to get the nomination, no? It was late one night and I was very, very angry at the crap that the Clinton campaign was pulling (as were you!) and we spoke about what to do about it all.
It's a toughie for sure, but hopefully, THIS time we won't have to worry about who the nominee will be, however we do need to remember that until the convention, Hillary still does have a shot at it all. (yuck)
Busboy
· 1 year ago
so many women, so little time........
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
I'm not sure if 'your whiteness is showing' is correct.
I'd call them on what they're labelling all Obama supporters as.
'you're showing you're a sexist'.
this isn't about a woman or a man. This is about SAVING OUR COUNTRY for fuck's sake!!!!
If they'd vote for mcsame, or stay home instead of voting for Obama... they're sexists who will let the fact that hillary (read as : a WOMAN... it doesn't matter if its hillary or nancy reagan) LOST keep them from voting for any man.
so, its their choice... hope for our country's future, or pouting about another MAN in the White House.
who's the sexist here?
if the term mysogenist means 'a man who hates women'... what's the term for a woman who hates men?
IS there even a term?
Rob Mule
· 1 year ago
what's the term for a woman who hates men?
Ex-wife???
Hangtown Danile
· 1 year ago
Do you know how to tell a whore from a bitch? A whore will have sex with anybody. A bitch will have sex with anybody except you.
Psyche
· 1 year ago
Misandry.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
Rosie O'Donnell is the term you are looking for.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
Cowboy, I'm afraid that everyone is sensitive about two big issues within our culture: misogyny and racism. However, the campaigns have used them for their own ends (mainly Hillary's campaign as they have been the most vile of offenders) and when so doing, they help cloud the larger issue at stake: OUR NATION'S SAFETY!
It's been a very upsetting primary and now we're on to the general and it won't be any easier, even IF Hillary does help out the Obama campaign. Let's all hope that folks get to see the real issues in time...
Rob Mule
· 1 year ago
My red-necked whiteness is all excited about McStain's veep picks...Will it be the Mormon, the homo or the dot-head??? Golly, I'm excited. Mebbe if the (ahem!) boys don't pan out Johnny could go for a younger and female ticketmate with Liddy Dole, Kay Bailey Facelifchinson or Lindsey Graham?
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
I still like the idea of him running with Linsey Graham...
She'd be FAAABULOUS on the campaign trail!!
I understand she lipsyncs a WONDERFUL 'Waterloo', blonde wig and all!
Rob Mule
· 1 year ago
In a tight set with the Charlie Blackettes doing a high camp "Money, Money, Money" production number...Shit, Cindy's already channeling Agnetha's wardrobe!
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
I still think that Hillary just might be his veep pick...
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
if all these people are upset at the media's sexist treatment of Hillary, they should take it out on the media, not Obama. He did not do that.
johnosahon
· 1 year ago
I LOVE IT, I LOVE IT I SAY.
I FEEL 10000000000000000000000% exactly the same way. As a black man i have been waiting patiently for the hillary supporters and the media to stop falling in the "glory" of hillary because of her "womaness". since Obama won, they has been NO talk about how the blacks around the world feel, it ALL ABOUT THE WOMAN, you know it is "WHITE WOMAN" they are all refering to.
Anyways, when this election started i could careless if Obama or Hillary won the primary, AS LONG AS THEY WERE GOING TO WIN THE GENERAL AND A (D) was after their name, was all that concerned me. i was SECRETLY hoping hillary would win because i did not think whites would vote for Obama.
The oNLY thing that pushed me towards Obama WAS HILLARY's NEGATIVITY and her republican disgusting tactics which i 100% noticed in the stupid republican 3am ad. It is her FAULT she lost, no one but HER FAULT. NOT HER GENDER HER FAULT.
Statistics already show that more people voted for hillary because of her gender and race than for Obama becuase of his gender and race.
STOP BLAMING US for HILLARY FAILURE.
red_dwarf
· 1 year ago
The facist driven lying Corporate media attacked Hillary because they thought they could beat Obama.
Game on.
blackwolf
· 1 year ago
Point well made. The article is an excellent read of Hilary's supporters. Tim Wise is white (Jewish) and has been around the block. He' s a brilliant activist, and right on target. His article is nothing short of scorching.
BLOGGING BITCH!
· 1 year ago
House is voting on Kucinich's motion to impeach Bush. C-SPAN
mirror
· 1 year ago
First of all, this "whiteness" thing is stupid! Because it implies that "whiteness" equates to a state of racism, so the article itself is written, perhaps by a special TROLL, to attack the holders of the bias based on their unchangeable characteristics, rather than based on their actions, or even positions held.
THAT SAID, Racism seems like the obvious basis left for the majority of women who in the end find themselves supporting or voting for John McCain, once the rational reasons fall one by one by process of elimination. Obama and his core campaign and surrogates simply did not participate or encourage misogynistic attacks.
Unfortunately for the person who wrote this piece, I think he is wrong in thinking African-Americans would have all come back to the fold for Clinton. She and her core campaign and surrogates did directly participate in race-baiting.
The race-baiting and misogyny exhibited in the campaign are simply not mirror images of each other, no matter how much many non-Black Democrats would like it to be so and wish Clinton absolved.
I applaud Clinton, sincerely, for seeing the light and overcoming emotion and temptation in getting back to values we believed had been guiding her from college on. But in my mind the sickly stain of race baiting remains to taint all their future acts and prospects. Unlike Byrd, I do not expect an applogy or recognition of wrong doing.
BrendaNmbr1
· 1 year ago
Drudge has a MAJOR story out now about an enemies list that Hillary is using: "ENEMIES LIST: THOSE LOYAL TO CLINTONS TAKE NOTE OF WHO WAS NOT..."
Notice that the MSM ignores this stuff. I appreciate Drudge, Americablog, and Politico for revealing the stories that the MSM is afraid to touch. This just confirms that Obama should NOT consider Hillary for VP. She and her husband are ruthless nut jobs and it's sickening that they would make an enemies list.
johnosahon
· 1 year ago
i hope her and her husband are on that list, becuase they are their own worst enemy.
Õ¿Õ
· 1 year ago
I love those women even though we had some serious arguments. I wish you would stop pissing them off.
lynchie
· 1 year ago
Jim Johnson, who was in charge of VP choice for Obama resigns after special loan rates disclosed from Countrywide.
Are every one of these assholes in both parties all not get the fact that you can't be getting special treatment and not get caught. I want a special loan rate too, what the fuck makes you special asshole.
Õ¿Õ
· 1 year ago
Well, I love you woman and I'm sorry that your candidate didn't win the nomination. I know it must have felt like being kicked in the the stomach afterwards. I was thinking last night would I have voted for her in the end and I would have. This blog is just hurting the effort with this.
ZennButtKicker (tlhwraith)
· 1 year ago
No it isn't!
You can't coddle these people just because their feelings are hurt. You know why, simply put because if people are not voting democrat because of the ideology, it's just too damn hard to try to patchwork a coalition fo disperate factions together. Imagine if Obama ends up catering to "the white Clinton female supporters" and doing whatever they want to get their coveted vote. What about all of the people who voted for Obama who may feel slighted at being ignored or marginalized? How can you be a change advocate if you are spending half or your time kissing up to one group in your coalition who can't grow the f*** up.
In the end, people need to vote based on their best interest, not based on some percetpion of an emotional slight. As it's been said time and again, Obama wasn't the source of the sexism, so not supporting him is foolish. I personally applaud blogs like this for at least being willing to give a collective slap-in-the-face to all those people out there who may feel this way. All everyone else is doing is coddling them and asking how Obama isgoing to coax them in. We should all be yelling in unison "GROW UP"!
Õ¿Õ
· 1 year ago
They're hurting very much. I sense that and you're all making a big mistake to just blow it off because it will come back. You need to be humble.
ZennButtKicker (tlhwraith)
· 1 year ago
I'd rather lose than continue to eat humble pie. I refuse to continue to feed the egoes of a bunch of people who can't act like adults and accept that their choice can't always win. What makes the holdouts so special that the rest of the party needs to be beholden to them?
In the end, if they are willing to sacrifice important issues for feminism like equal pay and freedom of choice, I have reached the point where I personally am willing to take that chance. In the end, this fight is about moving a progressive ideology, not kidding the butts of a bunch of sore losers. They need to either lead, follow, or get the hell out the way.
Like I said, I have no problem if the discussion is about making sure that feminist issues stay in the campaign, I'm all for that, but having a gun to my head and being told what to do is no way to advance any cause.
red_dwarf
· 1 year ago
Only one thing matters now.
Kick McBush's ass.
Anything outside of this directive is a road block.
ZennButtKicker (tlhwraith)
· 1 year ago
My opinion is that in our zeal to beat McCain we shouldn't sacrifice one group of people to court another if possible. In this case, it is pretty clear to most observers that the "militant white female Clintonistas" that are refusing to support Obama for McCain (or to not show up) are not being particularly reasonable. If Obama had walked out and punched Clinton in the face then yeah, I could see a lot of resentment, but in reality, compared to how he was treated Obama was gracious and polite the whole way through.
The one policy that the US got right is that you don't negotiate with terrorists. In this case, if you bow down to those who are in the "Clinton or nothing" school then you risk alienating others who currently support Obama who will see it as favortism. No, if people are going to support Obama, they need to do it because they realize that in the end, his policies really are the direction we need to be moving in.
hastingspete
· 1 year ago
I'm not sure it's whiteness showing, so much as outright stupidity. About the only disrespectful thing I saw out of Obama toward Hillary was the off-hand "likable enough" comment, which was pretty mild compared, for example, to what she was saying about herself and McCain having experience, but not Obama. The fact is that Obama never exhibited sexism (show me one example!), and that 'tude out of Hillary supporters is absurd. McCain, meanwhile, called his own wife publicly the c-word, so let's not even bother considering him a more respectful alternative. Any Clinton supporter who does anything other than vigorously support Senator Obama is playing a stupid game that will only hurt themselves, their daughters and this country. It's irresponsible, childish and spiteful. End of story.
roodoc13
· 1 year ago
I definitely don't understand Democratic women who would vote for McSame over Obama. What a ridiculous move! Is that racism or plain old sour grapes? Either way, it's unbecoming to feminists everywhere. But who am I to talk...I'm one of those white women from Iowa...and apparently now on Hillary's "enemy list". The next time there's a woman running for president (white, black or brown), I'll vote for her...as long as she isn't Republican-like in her tactics (lie, spin, lie). Iowans vote for integrity. I don't care what your skin color is...be a person with character and charisma first.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
Make no bones about it, using the McCain card this November is anything BUT being a feminist. They are fooling themselves into believing such a ploy because they aren't being honest about their actual reasons for doing so.
Feminists my ass...
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
Exactly... stupidity.
claiming to be feminists and voting for mcsame???
egad, that's like me not liking Obama's stance on gay marriage... and deciding to move to Iran!
stupidity.
maggiePA08
· 1 year ago
Best. Analogy. Ever.
duchessofbilgewater
· 1 year ago
Perhaps I am naive, but I just think a lot of those women are disgruntled and pissed off -- they are not stupid. They will not vote for John McCain, whose record is opposed to everything they believe in. Nor are they racists. They are just disappointed. They will come around. And furthermore, I think their numbers are being exaggerated.
AdrianBrowne
· 1 year ago
It sounds like someone's trying "reverse psychology."
Nigel Elliott
· 1 year ago
Women tend to be smarter than men. I am certain after tempers cool, women will support Obama.
Hello...SCOTUS anyone????
firebrand
· 1 year ago
Hey bud!!!!!.
PeteWa
· 1 year ago
While I am sure that a few here and there of actual Hillary supporters fall under this description, I still believe that the majority of the highly vocal, highly illogical, venal and shrill Hillary "supporters" were and remain Repuke-Limpball moles trying to stir up shit and create a problem that doesn't exist in reality.
For those actual, real Hillary supporters who this piece is talking to, shame on you.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
Hi Pete. Whereas I agree that some of the Hillary women are right wing goof balls, I do think that the vast majority of them ARE actually white Democrats who are viewing this entire election through their own eyes, be them racist or just plain female. I am a woman, a feminist even, but I have always been embarrassed and angered by a certain "entitlement" that many women seem to feel in daily life.
OK, I know I'm going to get hit hard for that, but OK; let's debate it.
PeteWa
· 1 year ago
Well, entitlement runs rampant through American society as a whole, and the white segment in particular, no matter (and especially when) how stridently it is denied to be true by those who bask in the benefit of such.
You all want to win? Here's a sure fire way: Be humble.
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
you HAVE to read the last sentence of this post by jason linkins on how the GOP will continue to attack Michelle Obama... it sums up the GOP predicament with McSame so beautifully...
The gist of this article is right on even if it is poorly written. I applaud his views and if presented in a more organized manner with better phrasing, it would be a piece to reprint often.
KerrynowCampau
· 1 year ago
"The oNLY thing that pushed me towards Obama WAS HILLARY's NEGATIVITY and her republican disgusting tactics which i 100% noticed in the stupid republican 3am ad. It is her FAULT she lost, no one but HER FAULT. NOT HER GENDER HER FAULT."
Say it loud. Say it proud. You are spot on.
firebrand
· 1 year ago
Breaking news
House votes to send impeachment resolution to Judiciary Committee
I love you Hillary and all you've done for my gay bros and bras.
ZennButtKicker (tlhwraith)
· 1 year ago
like? Honestly, what has Hillary done for the LGBT community?
Õ¿Õ
· 1 year ago
She has a better voting record than Obama. That's just a fact.
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
Huh? links please...
ZennButtKicker (tlhwraith)
· 1 year ago
I'm not trying to be contrarian, but aren't their voting records on LGBT related issues almost identical? I know their HRC scores are the same.
davidkc
· 1 year ago
That's not true at all. Obama and Clinton received identical ratings from the Human Rights Campaign for their voting records in the Senate (89 out of 100): http://www.hrc.org/documents/HRCscorecard2006.pdf
To say that Obama is weak on GLBT issues, or that Hillary is better, is a flat-out lie.
firebrand
· 1 year ago
Oh yeah......one other thing. Nancy Pelosi still says Impeachment is off the table. Time to add her to the impeachment list.
Õ¿Õ
· 1 year ago
She needs to be investigated.
steve303
· 1 year ago
The vast majority of women who have written about the sexism of the media and Obama supporters seem, from my reading, to be moving to supporting Obama. I do find it interesting that the minority of those claiming to be leaning towards McCain, because they claim Obama's campaign was sexist, have not rallied around Cynthia McKinney, the Green candidate for president. Afterall, if one is seeking a woman candidate for president , why would one choose an elderly white man, when a woman is running?
PeteWa
· 1 year ago
This does lend more credence to my belief that the majority of the vocal, vituperative supposed Hillary supporters are indeed Repuke operatives.
mirth
· 1 year ago
Bingo
luvie
· 1 year ago
Nooo, you mean some of the 18 million cracks are from "Operation Chaos" and they are racist??? Oh my!
mirth
· 1 year ago
OT
Sign of changing times:
"Within an hour of being elected president of the Southern Baptist Convention, the Rev. Johnny Hunt was talking about ''turning the tide,'' acknowledging the reality that a denomination that cares so much about winning souls is losing too many. [...] After five decades of declining growth, the SBC reported a membership decrease of about 40,000 people from 2006 to 2007."
It has been clear to me that for a certain segment of women who are so angry that Obama won the nomination that they claim they'll vote for McCain (I don't know how big this segment is), part of what's bothering them is that Obama is black. It's bad enough that a man beat Hillary, but for them it's even worse that a BLACK man beat Hillary. Although white women are below white men in the societal pecking order, they sure as hell are supposed to be above black men. This attitude has demonstrated itself in many ways, from Geraldine Ferraro's comments that Obama was only winning because he was black--not because he was qualified, to the video of Hillary supporter Harriet Christian at the Rules & Bylaws Committee who referred to Obama as an "inadequate black man. These women seem obsessed with Obama's race, and with his race-based inferiority, and really seems to be fueling a lot of their anger.
If it isn't my old pal, Buzzkill. Thanks for the awful news updates.
Hope you and the folks are well! :-)
Õ¿Õ
· 1 year ago
Worst.Depression.Ever
Andrew A. Gill
· 1 year ago
I've got a bone to pick with the guy who wrote that article.
It's an open letter to Certain White Women.
What about me?
As reticent as I am to admit it online, I'm a white guy. When it comes down to who I am, I'm pretty much Whitey, and I'm sure that my whiteness shows in the culture that I enjoy (and hopefully not as racism). I'll admit that I read books that are usually by dead white guys and on occasion, when I read books by dead black guys, they tend to be the safe authors like Langston Hughes.
So where's the outrage against me? Why isn't this guy taking me on? I'm sure my whiteness is just as obvious as any of these white women's, but where's the call to reflection directed at me? I'd like to grow in my cultural self-reflection, as well.
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
okay... we all hate you.
feel better now? ;-)
maggiePA08
· 1 year ago
If you are a Hillary supporter who is voting for McCain then he is talking to you.
Hangtown Danile
· 1 year ago
in all the books I have read I have never even wondered as to the race of the author . Dose this say anything about my whiteness? I am a white man as well. I merried a white woman, I have twin girls who have blue eyes and blond hair. (What little hair they have they are still only months old)
I guess my whiteness is showing! what ever can I do to be more inclusive?
Kes
· 1 year ago
I agree - I really fail to see how any self-respecting feminist can vote for McCain over Obama. Look at how differently they treat the women in their lives! McCain cheated on his disabled wife and then married a rich, trophy bride; honestly, when I started seeing Cindy McCain up on stage I thought she was some sort of campaign adviser. Contrast Cindy McCain, and her relationship with her husband, with Michelle Obama and HER relationship with Barack. No contest!
duchessofbilgewater
· 1 year ago
And don't forget that name that McCain called his wife. What feminist could vote for that??!!
shell
· 1 year ago
I agree with this author 100%. I watched closely, the past 3 months, and what he says is true. The rabid Clinton supporters always speak of Obama, himself, saying sexist things. And, like the author, I always say, "Give me examples." The only one I got was when he called the female reporter "sweetie." Oh, that's enough to vote for McCain! hahaha As a female, I only WISH that was the only sexism I ever got!
Yes, Tweety and many other talking heads are sexist ... but so are many FEMALE talking heads (cough cough Maureen Dowd). And why take that out on Obama? You'll REALLY show them, by electing McCain!
Yes, no doubt about it -- and it is not controversial -- these women ARE racist. I am as sure of it as the sun rises in the east. Well, so to speak.
jcgraham77
· 1 year ago
Maybe those who have yelled sexism have read the comments on this blog and several other...such as....Queen Hillary, Bitch, Whore, Evil Woman, Bill's wife, any reference to Bill as her husband to belittle her, First lady, etc etc etc. Remember a campaign is made of its supporters, and Obama's campaign certainly has a lot of foul mouthed spiteful supporters on the comment sections of so many liberal blogs.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
True and the same can be said for Hillary's supporters, John McCain's supporters et al. Politics these days, is not bean bag and the tenor has disintegrated terribly over the last few years in particular. That said, this Primary campaign has had it's share of disgraceful comments from both sides, supporters and candidates all.
Over_it
· 1 year ago
Oh, jc..always the poor victim.. one of many innocent lambs that followed Hillary and were ripped apart.. bullshit. You have been among the most hateful contributors here since you have been posting. You are a pathetic, disgusting fraud.
shell
· 1 year ago
In a message dated 6/11/2008 9:32:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, writes:
Maybe those who have yelled sexism have read the comments on this blog and several other...such as....Queen Hillary, Bitch, Whore, Evil Woman, Bill's wife, any reference to Bill as her husband to belittle her, First lady, etc etc etc. Remember a campaign is made of its supporters, and Obama's campaign certainly has a lot of foul mouthed spiteful supporters on the comment sections of so many liberal blogs.
Do you REALLY think these people read blogs like this? Once AGAIN ... I AM A FEMALE. Have I been called a BITCH? A WHORE? EVIL? Yes! And worse. And I would never EVER vote Republican, just because I got my feelings hurt.
Maybe I had a harder life, all around, than these women. But I will say the old, "If THIS is the worst thing you have ever experienced, you are LUCKY"
Is it possible, just POSSIBLE that someone can like black generally, but be specifically opposed to Barack Obama politically? Or does failure to support Barack Obama automatically equal racism?
If that idea is acceptable, than you must also believe that opposing Alan Keyes or believing that Clarence Thomas is a bad Judge is also automatic proof of racism.
I'm supporting Obama not because he was my first choice, but because I generally accept the premise that any Democrat is better than any Republican.
I just don't accept the argument that anything less than cult-like following of Barack Obama is proof of racism.
ZennButtKicker (tlhwraith)
· 1 year ago
Oh please, no one is asking for sacrificial offerings. In fact, the article only implied that SOME of the anti-Obama people are doing it because of his race, there are others who are doing it because of his gender, and I imagine a tiny fraction that generally think McCain is a better candidate than Obama (that one is tought to calculate if they call themselves a democrat or a feminist).
So no, just because someone doesn't like Obama doesn't make them a racist, however in this case there is a lot of compelling anecdotal support that a good number of people were using other rationale to cover some racist views.
So perhabs we can be spared the strawman tactics for a little while. the issue here is not a simple "black and white" racist or non-racist thing, there are several different issues at work but at the end of it all is the simple logic that there's really not a convincing case that most people can make aside from age or skin color that people would move from Clinton to McCain. In every ideological way Obama is a much closer match to Clinton than McCain. So in a way, it kind of boils down to agism, racism, or just a startling ignorance on the issues.
1stRepublic14thStar
· 1 year ago
Point taken. But never assume that people think or behave rationally. Emotions definitely factor in.
There may be some Clinton supporters who at the moment are not ready to back Obama, but that doesn't make them racist. Most, if not all of them will come around as the primary season becomes a more distant memory and Clinton leads by example when she campaigns as hard as she can for Obama.
shell
· 1 year ago
OK -- IF someone was not prejudiced against blacks, supported Hillary, and would vote GOP rather than for Obama? I would say give me a break. Obama and Hillary are very much alike on the main issues. A woman who was FOR Hillary, but will vote McCain is a GOPer. Pure and simple. A Republican who just wanted to vote for a woman, no matter which party. When she lost, they reverted to their true colors.
So -- you have two choices -- you are a Republican, or you are insane. Take your pick.
But I *am* laughing at your phrase "cult-like following of Obama." That is Psychology 101 -- transference. If anyone is cult-like, it is Hillarybots.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
Shell, I think your "choice" of options for 1stRepublic14thStar of he (or someone else of similar conflict) is a Republican OR insane is a shallow indictment which does not really address his concerns here (ditto for your comment about Hillarybots). We can't resolve issues within the Party IF we cannot speak about them openly without such harsh judgment. The Dem's have a large tent whose inhabitants have a incredibly diverse lifestyle.
The subject is how to get back the votes of those women (mainly) who voted for Hillary and are now loath to vote for Obama. Although I do believe that many might be part of Operation Chaos (or other GOPers that want to make mischief), I do most throughly believe that the majority are inflamed through a very divisive campaign that the Clinton's waged. I feel that the gist of the problem lay in the manner in which both Clinton's decided to divide the party and use race and feminism as tools for their own ends.
So many of those who are not sure for whom to vote ARE conflicted, be it about their own issues of race, feminism or just plain gullibility. Your choices of being a GOPer or insane is false and really just cuts the discussion off before you can delve further into the problems that lay just beneath that veneer. I say let's give it all a chance before we decide to discount their value.
shell
· 1 year ago
You are no doubt correct, IF talking to an average American. I see these blogs as somehow different. I don't go out in the "real world" and rant about stupid Americans. But I DO rant in "private." That is, among others who I know are informed.
And I get very angry at those (including my own mother) who simply don't know the facts. As I said, all this was out there -- for all Americans to see. I watched, for months, while all this happened, right in front of their eyes. They either didn't see -- or CHOSE not to.
I have no pity. One example I can think of is the charge that Hillary had pledged NOT to count the Florida and Michigan votes. Yet, when she had lost, her supporters (yes, even Wesley Clark) chimed, "Well, Obama SHOULD have been on the ticket, too!" as if it was his fault that he got NO votes in Michigan, when his name wasn't even on the ballot.
This goes far deeper than what you claim. WAY deeper.
I stand by what I said. Normally, I would say what I REALLY feel.
Speaking from the perspective of a W/M that started out in what is now Barbra Lee's Oakland/Berkeley, CA district but through a lifetime of travel and public service I now find myself in Marsha Blackburn's TN-7 district all I can say after all o my travels & observations the best I could find on this subject was said by Alice Walker. Her comments can be found at: http://www.theroot.com/id/45469 Have a wonderful day! peace
shell
· 1 year ago
I just cannot see how someone who lived in Berkeley ... could now live in Tennessee!
Are you a social worker? LOL
Nigel Elliott
· 1 year ago
Reporter: You know McCain's temper, right? Senator Reid: Yeah, we've met. ;-)
LeesiD
· 1 year ago
Excellent letter.....couldn't have said it better!! These misguided folks who supported "Queen" Hillary and won't vote for Obama are not the most loyal Democratic Party constituency, for if they were voting for Obama wouldn't be an issue~
gumbygirl
· 1 year ago
I'm more than a little disappointed with the ugly sexist tone here. These women have been waiting all their lives for a chance to finally be represented, and to dismiss them so cavalierly, and to accuse them of racism is just nasty. I am sure that the vast majority of them will do the right thing ; their not going to throw their future away in a fit of girlish pique. If there are a few that do-who needs them?
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
Many of us have been waiting for all kinds of representation, be them as a woman President, as a black man/woman for President or as some other form of minority acknowledgment.
I don't think anyone (here) is accusing them of outright racism, but of hypocrisy and other forms of political action. I too hope those who supported Hillary will "do the right thing" by voting for someone who best represents their views and the policies that are best for our nation.
ZennButtKicker (tlhwraith)
· 1 year ago
wheres the sexist tone? Honestly, while you sling that word around with such abandon, what point did the arthur make that was sexist? Inflammatory, yes, kind of mean, possibly, but I don't see what they said as being sexist.
But, I am open to be proven wrong, and as a man, I welcome being taught. However, this is the same question I ask of Clinton supporters who accuse Obama of being sexist, show me the actual examples and not just an accusation. In my mind, this article represents a sub-set of a sub-set of women and makes no attempt at a generalization of the gender, which I think is an important part of making a sexist based arguement (that the underlying statement is an attempt to stereotype women, or a large group of them, as acting a particular way).
PeteWa
· 1 year ago
I really could care less about a female president. I could care less about a black president. I could care not at all for having a gay president.
As usual, I hope to see a good PERSON as a president. Lord knows we've been waiting for that to happen for years...
Your claim to a "ugly sexist tone here" would be laughable were it not for the fact that you seem to believe such exists.
shell
· 1 year ago
I am a female. I am retired. I worked my whole life. (Yes, outside the home.) I raised 3 children. What about these poor Hillary supporters DON'T I understand?
Tell me, please. To me, they are a bunch of children. Just because Hillary is a woman does NOT mean she represents ME. Anymore than Clarence Thomas or Alan Keyes represents most blacks.
consult
· 1 year ago
This made me realize what has been missing in this discussion about what Clinton supporters will do next. First of all, its not "feminist, progressive" women who are threatening to vote for John McCain or stay home. Feminist women are for the most part doing exactly what he calls for- sucking it up and voting for someone who less than thrills us, just like we have always done. Thats politics. However, there are a lot of women out there who did identify with Hillary Clinton and don't know what to do about their anger. In general they are not women who have a feminist analysis or really any political analysis. They are women who became engaged in this race because of what it meant to them to see a woman running at this level. They are a whole bunch of unaffiliated women- they don't have a history on the barricades, so to speak. While I agree that they need to do exactly what Tim says, insulting them is not the way to bring them a long. An analysis based on the intersection of race, gender, etc is not what drives them nor would they relate to it. That is more of a message for feminist, progressive women and we all know what we have to do. There has to be another way to get the message across to these less political women, the ones who don't know what to do with their anger, about the importance of this election for women.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
I'm sure you're right and that hopefully, Obama and his people will figure out the best way to go to them directly and ask for their votes. I am hoping that they will use both Hillary and Bill in areas where they can best serve to elect Obama, however on that note I am not sure. There has been so much bad blood between these two campaigns, that it has got to be incredibly hard to bridge such a gap so quickly...but we will see.
ZennButtKicker (tlhwraith)
· 1 year ago
You are right, this is not the arguement that would sway a woman normally not that interested in politics, but the arguement can be made there is no way of persuading them simply because their attachment was an emotional not logical one. IMO it's very hard to use logic to combat an emotional attachment.
at it's heart, my big problem is that Clinton knew her chances of winning evaporated months ago and should have been prepping her constituents better for a possible transition. At the end of the day, Obama and Clinton were supposed to be in the same party, but IMO Clintons tactics were something you'd expect to see in the generals, not a primary campaign.
Now, all we can hope for is that McCain is shown for the anti-women policies he clings to and that will be enough to snap people back to reality. Also,it seems as though the numbers are not going to be as huge as people thought, so maybe it is just a case of acceptable casualties?
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
milosarah- i don't see the insult in Tim's article. admittedly, he doesn't mince words, but is that insulting?
The main point I fail to understand is how any woman could be proud of the way Hillary ran. She played every dirty trick known to Rove and then had the gall to complain about how she was being treated. Didn't these female supporters see any of that? Or are those the less political ones you're speaking of. Maybe that's it...if these were politically disconnected people, maybe they weren't aware of all Hillary did...
consult
· 1 year ago
its insulting for people who don't have a political analysis of these issues (political with a small p) and who think in individual terms. For white people who are trying to be allies to people of color, its not insulting, its a challenge that is necessary. However, those white women are already on board with Obama. The others need to be brought along in different ways. BTW- the Obama campaign did play some pretty hardball politics themselves; they were just a lot smoother at it.
ozhinkleberry
· 1 year ago
The incredible attention this election has received from not just America, but the entire world illustrates the desire for change in America's politics. Gender and race both represent change outwardly, but ultimately both must be set aside in regards to ideas. In this sense, Obama seems to more greatly represent change. Check out this musical parody of a Clinton return to the White House. While it definitely warrants a good chuckle, I feel that it also illustrates this country's desire for change. Enjoy!
I don't have a problem with that article at all. It's talking about what I call "white chick feminism" that focuses on the needs of upper middle class white women while ignoring the sometimes very different needs of poor women and women of color. In this race, Obama is the feminist candidate. Hillary couldn't have done as much for women as he might be able to, specifically because she's a woman and would be vulnerable to charges of favoritism or reverse sexism.
I've yet to see a legitimate example of sexism from Barack. Calling someone 'sweetie' hardly counts as sexism. If it does, then I'm the most sexist person around because I call everybody 'sweetie,' and 'honey' and a dozen other endearments that shouldn't offend any sane person. Again, that's a "white chick" issue that has nothing to do with actual social justice, which should be the primary goal of a true feminist.
Wanting Obama to lose is anti-feminist -- and madness - because if McCain wins, we can kiss Roe v. Wade goodbye. Any woman wishing to retain personal soverneignty over her own uterus better vote Democratic, or slave-births will become the rule of law. The next president is going to name a couple of Supreme Court nominees and a host of federal judges. McCain has already said he'll get rid of Roe i he can. This should be the number one priority for any feminist, or any woman, or any man who has sex with, is related to, works with, or pays taxes that might support a woman. I'm quite sure the people who are threatening to boycott or defect will come to their senses as November draws near.
JetSetter
· 1 year ago
I agree with the post to a point. I've posted before about the fact that "progressive" white women have been used to throwing their support behind white men for their entire lives. They finally felt they had found a home in the Hillary campaign. For the first time in their lives, many enjoyed the feeling of personal identification with a candidate on a level other than race or class. Hillary's gender allowed them the thrill of shared experience and history. Hillary's defeat and her failure to clinch the nomination has placed many in deep mourning.
I feel that personal identification is what prompts many to support a candidate in any contest. Given two candidates equal in race, class, gender and age, we know many vote for the "guy you'd like to have a beer with" - or to put in another way - the one you feel they can more identify with. Given a choice between John Kerry and George Bush, both wealthy white baby boomer Yale graduates, many picked Bush because of his accent and unschooled persona. They figured "He's a guy I could share a beer with... he's more like me!"
In light of Hillary's defeat, I believe many of Hillary's supporters look at the two remaining viable candidates and are more able to identify with the one with whom they share the most experiences. With JSMC III they may not share gender, but they share race and in many cases age and class. In order to "settle" upon Barack, they have to overcome the triple whammy of gender, race and age. In light of that, their "racism" may not be as overt as all that, rather, race is just another thing to set him apart from them, and past which they may or may not be able to see.
(I also contend that this is the first time baby boomers are being told that their age is a deciding factor against them. Being a rich, smart, successful, super-soccer-mom isn't getting them through the door. It is another shock to their delicate psyches. They remember all too well what they've meant when they lorded the "generation gap" over their parents and grand parents for all these years)
bluestockton
· 1 year ago
OK, ladies, suppose the GOP nominee were Elizabeth Dole or Kay Bailey Hutchison, and Obama the Democratic nominee. Whom are you going to vote for?
Antigone
· 1 year ago
Obama. I didn't even have to think for a second. I don't care if they are women - from my experience - the GOP has never been kind to women or any type of minority. GOP stands for Greedy Old Perverts. As a woman I demand to be treated with just as much respect as men are accorded - and the GOP shows no respect for women. It's clear in virtually every policy decision they make.
They screw over poor women, single women with children and when it comes to a woman's right to control her own body - abortion, birth control, they act like we're some stupid three year old who is incapable of making decisions for ourselves so we need some man to make them for us. John McCain scored a bloody 0 when it comes to where he stands on womens issues - the right to choose, access to birth control, etc.
So I don't care if it was a woman running against Obama. If she's GOP - she'll never get my vote. And frankly, me personally, I believe that any woman who would be a member of the GOP or vote for them - is secretly a masochist. But some women, they are really good at shooting themselves in the foot and undermining their gender as a whole - just like HC did thanks to the ugly way she ran her campaign.
gogreen
· 1 year ago
perfect..if you don't vote obama..then you're a racist...
debbsmith
· 1 year ago
Yes, it's all the fault of white women, because if they won't vote for Obama they couldn't possibly have rational reasons, right? Because women are flighty and emotional and they're supposed to sit down and shut up and let men run everything, That Hillary, boy howdy, she tried to prove otherwise but she ended up having to do what women have done forever: back off while the young guy she trained gets the promotion she deserved. This is all Hillary's fault. I'm sure you'll come to that conclusion here on Americablog, home of the "Obama can do no wrong and if you don't like him you're a RACIST," crowd of thoughtful, progressive Democrats. Right.
alfannaan
· 1 year ago
I don't see anything controversial about this article. White women's anger - anger? that their candidate lost? That is the reaction of a child, not necessarily a feminist or a racist. But there you are - why are these grown women angry? I think the author has a theory that is not insane, unfounded or insulting. And clearly he is addressing those who say they will support McCain - many of you seem to have missed that bit.
nsr
· 1 year ago
Is this something anyone can imagine coming from Barack Obama? I can't.
Melanie_Denise
· 1 year ago
Whether or not you agree with this article the fact remains: A vote for McCain is NOT a vote for women.
It is perfectly clear to anyone who looks that McCain has an anti-woman voting record, NARAL (National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League) rated him a zero out of one-hundred. That is pathetic. As a "progressive" Democrat, how could you agree with the policies of a man like that? As a "feminist" how could you vote for a man who cheated on his disabled wife, left her for a younger woman and called that younger woman a c*nt?
What exactly is the "white woman's" problem with Obama? I am not saying all white women, I know plenty that will vote for him, but I'm talking about who the article is referring to. THEY DO EXIST. To deny it is foolish. Not everyone who isn't voting for Obama is a racist, but to deny him a vote because you supported Clinton is idiocy and ignorance.
The PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES should not be decided by race or gender. It is supposed to be the PERSON who is BEST FOR OUR NATION. If these people think John McCain is better for America, so be it. But, as dhonig says, the blood of one-thousand back-alley abortions will be on YOUR hands, "feminists."
Melanie_Denise
· 1 year ago
And furthermore, not voting for Obama because he's a man is SEXIST. Good job, hypocrites.
LeftCoastOracle
· 1 year ago
Excuse my ignorance but who is Tim White? I completely agree with this piece and would like to share it widely but am reluctant to do so without knowing a bit about the author. Can anyone help me?
indigo7275
· 1 year ago
As a white woman whose partner is a white woman (and she supported Hillary from the get go) I have fully been supportive of Obama from the beginning. For me, it is not about race or gender, but more importantly about CHANGE...changes that I think Obama can make. Clinton, for me, seemed like she was Bush-lite, or playing from Bush's playbook, or trying to get her husband re-elected. Just my 2 cents :)
All Comments
E.D. Hill shown terror fist bumping H.W. Bush!
http://www.jossip.com/paging-ed-hill-20080611/b...
You can be a martyr without being stupid about it. Voting for McCain to teach Obama and his supporters a lesson is like being angry at your boyfriend or husband so you strap on some f***-me pumps and start giving a lap dance to an undermedicated Mike Tyson. Yeah, THAT'LL teach him!
I also love the part when he said that black people would have just sucked it up and voted for Clinton anyway, if Obama didn't win. That is a subjective arguement, but there's a lot of compelling anecdotal evidence to support it (like polling data). Black folks for decades have supported less-than-optimal candidates simply because they were better than the GOP alternative.
Also, its interesting to me that the discussion of race is tap-danced around so much. It is the very obvious 800lb gorilla in the room. I will assert that for every allegation of sexism there could easily be 2 or 3 allegations of racism. We all know that the GOP tactic is centered on making Obama out as the "radical muslim with the funny name who isn't mainstream enough to be POTUS". In other words, he's got too much mustard and not enough mayo (an old expression my grandparents used). However, because obamas campaign has been so disciplined and almost out of necessity must downplay the racism aspects of the campaign, no one outside the MSM and the GOP are really addressing it. At some point I'd really love one night where Obama isn't in "trouble" with latinos, jews, or white women simply because of the perceived racial tensions with those groups (in reality, polling data shows him with a lead amongst all those groups).
I think the writing is tough, but the message is real clear, stop being mad at the wrong people. Fighting sexism, not many folks have a problem with that, but not supporting Obama and the Dems is surely the least effective way of fighting, in fact given McCains history in some ways the cause of feminism is pushed backwards with him in office.
It's a toughie for sure, but hopefully, THIS time we won't have to worry about who the nominee will be, however we do need to remember that until the convention, Hillary still does have a shot at it all. (yuck)
I'd call them on what they're labelling all Obama supporters as.
'you're showing you're a sexist'.
this isn't about a woman or a man. This is about SAVING OUR COUNTRY for fuck's sake!!!!
If they'd vote for mcsame, or stay home instead of voting for Obama... they're sexists who will let the fact that hillary (read as : a WOMAN... it doesn't matter if its hillary or nancy reagan) LOST keep them from voting for any man.
so, its their choice... hope for our country's future, or pouting about another MAN in the White House.
who's the sexist here?
if the term mysogenist means 'a man who hates women'... what's the term for a woman who hates men?
IS there even a term?
Ex-wife???
A whore will have sex with anybody.
A bitch will have sex with anybody except you.
I'm afraid that everyone is sensitive about two big issues within our culture: misogyny and racism. However, the campaigns have used them for their own ends (mainly Hillary's campaign as they have been the most vile of offenders) and when so doing, they help cloud the larger issue at stake: OUR NATION'S SAFETY!
It's been a very upsetting primary and now we're on to the general and it won't be any easier, even IF Hillary does help out the Obama campaign. Let's all hope that folks get to see the real issues in time...
She'd be FAAABULOUS on the campaign trail!!
I understand she lipsyncs a WONDERFUL 'Waterloo', blonde wig and all!
I FEEL 10000000000000000000000% exactly the same way. As a black man i have been waiting patiently for the hillary supporters and the media to stop falling in the "glory" of hillary because of her "womaness". since Obama won, they has been NO talk about how the blacks around the world feel, it ALL ABOUT THE WOMAN, you know it is "WHITE WOMAN" they are all refering to.
Anyways, when this election started i could careless if Obama or Hillary won the primary, AS LONG AS THEY WERE GOING TO WIN THE GENERAL AND A (D) was after their name, was all that concerned me. i was SECRETLY hoping hillary would win because i did not think whites would vote for Obama.
The oNLY thing that pushed me towards Obama WAS HILLARY's NEGATIVITY and her republican disgusting tactics which i 100% noticed in the stupid republican 3am ad. It is her FAULT she lost, no one but HER FAULT. NOT HER GENDER HER FAULT.
Statistics already show that more people voted for hillary because of her gender and race than for Obama becuase of his gender and race.
STOP BLAMING US for HILLARY FAILURE.
Game on.
THAT SAID, Racism seems like the obvious basis left for the majority of women who in the end find themselves supporting or voting for John McCain, once the rational reasons fall one by one by process of elimination. Obama and his core campaign and surrogates simply did not participate or encourage misogynistic attacks.
Unfortunately for the person who wrote this piece, I think he is wrong in thinking African-Americans would have all come back to the fold for Clinton. She and her core campaign and surrogates did directly participate in race-baiting.
The race-baiting and misogyny exhibited in the campaign are simply not mirror images of each other, no matter how much many non-Black Democrats would like it to be so and wish Clinton absolved.
I applaud Clinton, sincerely, for seeing the light and overcoming emotion and temptation in getting back to values we believed had been guiding her from college on. But in my mind the sickly stain of race baiting remains to taint all their future acts and prospects. Unlike Byrd, I do not expect an applogy or recognition of wrong doing.
Notice that the MSM ignores this stuff. I appreciate Drudge, Americablog, and Politico for revealing the stories that the MSM is afraid to touch. This just confirms that Obama should NOT consider Hillary for VP. She and her husband are ruthless nut jobs and it's sickening that they would make an enemies list.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080611/ap_on_el_pr...
Are every one of these assholes in both parties all not get the fact that you can't be getting special treatment and not get caught. I want a special loan rate too, what the fuck makes you special asshole.
You can't coddle these people just because their feelings are hurt. You know why, simply put because if people are not voting democrat because of the ideology, it's just too damn hard to try to patchwork a coalition fo disperate factions together. Imagine if Obama ends up catering to "the white Clinton female supporters" and doing whatever they want to get their coveted vote. What about all of the people who voted for Obama who may feel slighted at being ignored or marginalized? How can you be a change advocate if you are spending half or your time kissing up to one group in your coalition who can't grow the f*** up.
In the end, people need to vote based on their best interest, not based on some percetpion of an emotional slight. As it's been said time and again, Obama wasn't the source of the sexism, so not supporting him is foolish. I personally applaud blogs like this for at least being willing to give a collective slap-in-the-face to all those people out there who may feel this way. All everyone else is doing is coddling them and asking how Obama isgoing to coax them in. We should all be yelling in unison "GROW UP"!
In the end, if they are willing to sacrifice important issues for feminism like equal pay and freedom of choice, I have reached the point where I personally am willing to take that chance. In the end, this fight is about moving a progressive ideology, not kidding the butts of a bunch of sore losers. They need to either lead, follow, or get the hell out the way.
Like I said, I have no problem if the discussion is about making sure that feminist issues stay in the campaign, I'm all for that, but having a gun to my head and being told what to do is no way to advance any cause.
Kick McBush's ass.
Anything outside of this directive is a road block.
The one policy that the US got right is that you don't negotiate with terrorists. In this case, if you bow down to those who are in the "Clinton or nothing" school then you risk alienating others who currently support Obama who will see it as favortism. No, if people are going to support Obama, they need to do it because they realize that in the end, his policies really are the direction we need to be moving in.
Feminists my ass...
claiming to be feminists and voting for mcsame???
egad, that's like me not liking Obama's stance on gay marriage... and deciding to move to Iran!
stupidity.
Hello...SCOTUS anyone????
For those actual, real Hillary supporters who this piece is talking to, shame on you.
OK, I know I'm going to get hit hard for that, but OK; let's debate it.
Obama now running as strongly vs. McCain among women as Clinton did
http://www.gallup.com/poll/107806/Obama-Gains-A...
it sums up the GOP predicament with McSame so beautifully...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/11/ila-ti...
Say it loud. Say it proud. You are spot on.
House votes to send impeachment resolution to Judiciary Committee
http://rawstory.com/news08/2008/06/11/house-vot...
http://www.hrc.org/documents/HRCscorecard2006.pdf
Obama and Clinton also received identical ratings from the Human Rights Campaign for their positions on GLBT issues:
http://a4.g.akamai.net/f/4/19675/0/newmill.down...
To say that Obama is weak on GLBT issues, or that Hillary is better, is a flat-out lie.
Time to add her to the impeachment list.
Chaos" and they are racist??? Oh my!
Sign of changing times:
"Within an hour of being elected president of the Southern Baptist Convention, the Rev. Johnny Hunt was talking about ''turning the tide,'' acknowledging the reality that a denomination that cares so much about winning souls is losing too many.
[...]
After five decades of declining growth, the SBC reported a membership decrease of about 40,000 people from 2006 to 2007."
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-REL-South...
Central bank body warns of Great Depression
http://www.bankingtimes.co.uk/0906200
Hope you and the folks are well! :-)
It's an open letter to Certain White Women.
What about me?
As reticent as I am to admit it online, I'm a white guy. When it comes down to who I am, I'm pretty much Whitey, and I'm sure that my whiteness shows in the culture that I enjoy (and hopefully not as racism). I'll admit that I read books that are usually by dead white guys and on occasion, when I read books by dead black guys, they tend to be the safe authors like Langston Hughes.
So where's the outrage against me? Why isn't this guy taking me on? I'm sure my whiteness is just as obvious as any of these white women's, but where's the call to reflection directed at me? I'd like to grow in my cultural self-reflection, as well.
feel better now? ;-)
Dose this say anything about my whiteness? I am a white man as well. I merried a white woman, I have twin girls who have blue eyes and blond hair. (What little hair they have they are still only months old)
I guess my whiteness is showing! what ever can I do to be more inclusive?
Yes, Tweety and many other talking heads are sexist ... but so are many FEMALE talking heads (cough cough Maureen Dowd). And why take that out on Obama? You'll REALLY show them, by electing McCain!
Yes, no doubt about it -- and it is not controversial -- these women ARE racist. I am as sure of it as the sun rises in the east. Well, so to speak.
writes:
Maybe those who have yelled sexism have read the comments on this blog and
several other...such as....Queen Hillary, Bitch, Whore, Evil Woman, Bill's
wife, any reference to Bill as her husband to belittle her, First lady, etc etc
etc. Remember a campaign is made of its supporters, and Obama's campaign
certainly has a lot of foul mouthed spiteful supporters on the comment sections
of so many liberal blogs.
Do you REALLY think these people read blogs like this? Once AGAIN ... I AM
A FEMALE. Have I been called a BITCH? A WHORE? EVIL? Yes! And worse.
And I would never EVER vote Republican, just because I got my feelings hurt.
Maybe I had a harder life, all around, than these women. But I will say the
old, "If THIS is the worst thing you have ever experienced, you are LUCKY"
**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best
2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)
If that idea is acceptable, than you must also believe that opposing Alan Keyes or believing that Clarence Thomas is a bad Judge is also automatic proof of racism.
I'm supporting Obama not because he was my first choice, but because I generally accept the premise that any Democrat is better than any Republican.
I just don't accept the argument that anything less than cult-like following of Barack Obama is proof of racism.
So no, just because someone doesn't like Obama doesn't make them a racist, however in this case there is a lot of compelling anecdotal support that a good number of people were using other rationale to cover some racist views.
So perhabs we can be spared the strawman tactics for a little while. the issue here is not a simple "black and white" racist or non-racist thing, there are several different issues at work but at the end of it all is the simple logic that there's really not a convincing case that most people can make aside from age or skin color that people would move from Clinton to McCain. In every ideological way Obama is a much closer match to Clinton than McCain. So in a way, it kind of boils down to agism, racism, or just a startling ignorance on the issues.
There may be some Clinton supporters who at the moment are not ready to back Obama, but that doesn't make them racist. Most, if not all of them will come around as the primary season becomes a more distant memory and Clinton leads by example when she campaigns as hard as she can for Obama.
So -- you have two choices -- you are a Republican, or you are insane. Take your pick.
But I *am* laughing at your phrase "cult-like following of Obama." That is Psychology 101 -- transference. If anyone is cult-like, it is Hillarybots.
I think your "choice" of options for 1stRepublic14thStar of he (or someone else of similar conflict) is a Republican OR insane is a shallow indictment which does not really address his concerns here (ditto for your comment about Hillarybots). We can't resolve issues within the Party IF we cannot speak about them openly without such harsh judgment. The Dem's have a large tent whose inhabitants have a incredibly diverse lifestyle.
The subject is how to get back the votes of those women (mainly) who voted for Hillary and are now loath to vote for Obama. Although I do believe that many might be part of Operation Chaos (or other GOPers that want to make mischief), I do most throughly believe that the majority are inflamed through a very divisive campaign that the Clinton's waged. I feel that the gist of the problem lay in the manner in which both Clinton's decided to divide the party and use race and feminism as tools for their own ends.
So many of those who are not sure for whom to vote ARE conflicted, be it about their own issues of race, feminism or just plain gullibility. Your choices of being a GOPer or insane is false and really just cuts the discussion off before you can delve further into the problems that lay just beneath that veneer. I say let's give it all a chance before we decide to discount their value.
blogs as somehow different. I don't go out in the "real world" and rant about
stupid Americans. But I DO rant in "private." That is, among others who I
know are informed.
And I get very angry at those (including my own mother) who simply don't
know the facts. As I said, all this was out there -- for all Americans to see.
I watched, for months, while all this happened, right in front of their
eyes. They either didn't see -- or CHOSE not to.
I have no pity. One example I can think of is the charge that Hillary had
pledged NOT to count the Florida and Michigan votes. Yet, when she had lost,
her supporters (yes, even Wesley Clark) chimed, "Well, Obama SHOULD have
been on the ticket, too!" as if it was his fault that he got NO votes in
Michigan, when his name wasn't even on the ballot.
This goes far deeper than what you claim. WAY deeper.
I stand by what I said. Normally, I would say what I REALLY feel.
**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best
2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)
http://www.theroot.com/id/45469
Have a wonderful day!
peace
Are you a social worker? LOL
Senator Reid: Yeah, we've met. ;-)
I don't think anyone (here) is accusing them of outright racism, but of hypocrisy and other forms of political action. I too hope those who supported Hillary will "do the right thing" by voting for someone who best represents their views and the policies that are best for our nation.
But, I am open to be proven wrong, and as a man, I welcome being taught. However, this is the same question I ask of Clinton supporters who accuse Obama of being sexist, show me the actual examples and not just an accusation. In my mind, this article represents a sub-set of a sub-set of women and makes no attempt at a generalization of the gender, which I think is an important part of making a sexist based arguement (that the underlying statement is an attempt to stereotype women, or a large group of them, as acting a particular way).
I could care less about a black president.
I could care not at all for having a gay president.
As usual, I hope to see a good PERSON as a president. Lord knows we've been waiting for that to happen for years...
Your claim to a "ugly sexist tone here" would be laughable were it not for the fact that you seem to believe such exists.
Tell me, please. To me, they are a bunch of children. Just because Hillary is a woman does NOT mean she represents ME. Anymore than Clarence Thomas or Alan Keyes represents most blacks.
at it's heart, my big problem is that Clinton knew her chances of winning evaporated months ago and should have been prepping her constituents better for a possible transition. At the end of the day, Obama and Clinton were supposed to be in the same party, but IMO Clintons tactics were something you'd expect to see in the generals, not a primary campaign.
Now, all we can hope for is that McCain is shown for the anti-women policies he clings to and that will be enough to snap people back to reality. Also,it seems as though the numbers are not going to be as huge as people thought, so maybe it is just a case of acceptable casualties?
i don't see the insult in Tim's article. admittedly, he doesn't mince words, but is that insulting?
The main point I fail to understand is how any woman could be proud of the way Hillary ran. She played every dirty trick known to Rove and then had the gall to complain about how she was being treated. Didn't these female supporters see any of that? Or are those the less political ones you're speaking of. Maybe that's it...if these were politically disconnected people, maybe they weren't aware of all Hillary did...
http://minimovies.com/film-128295-Welcome%20Bac...
I've yet to see a legitimate example of sexism from Barack. Calling someone 'sweetie' hardly counts as sexism. If it does, then I'm the most sexist person around because I call everybody 'sweetie,' and 'honey' and a dozen other endearments that shouldn't offend any sane person. Again, that's a "white chick" issue that has nothing to do with actual social justice, which should be the primary goal of a true feminist.
Wanting Obama to lose is anti-feminist -- and madness - because if McCain wins, we can kiss Roe v. Wade goodbye. Any woman wishing to retain personal soverneignty over her own uterus better vote Democratic, or slave-births will become the rule of law. The next president is going to name a couple of Supreme Court nominees and a host of federal judges. McCain has already said he'll get rid of Roe i he can. This should be the number one priority for any feminist, or any woman, or any man who has sex with, is related to, works with, or pays taxes that might support a woman. I'm quite sure the people who are threatening to boycott or defect will come to their senses as November draws near.
I feel that personal identification is what prompts many to support a candidate in any contest. Given two candidates equal in race, class, gender and age, we know many vote for the "guy you'd like to have a beer with" - or to put in another way - the one you feel they can more identify with. Given a choice between John Kerry and George Bush, both wealthy white baby boomer Yale graduates, many picked Bush because of his accent and unschooled persona. They figured "He's a guy I could share a beer with... he's more like me!"
In light of Hillary's defeat, I believe many of Hillary's supporters look at the two remaining viable candidates and are more able to identify with the one with whom they share the most experiences. With JSMC III they may not share gender, but they share race and in many cases age and class. In order to "settle" upon Barack, they have to overcome the triple whammy of gender, race and age. In light of that, their "racism" may not be as overt as all that, rather, race is just another thing to set him apart from them, and past which they may or may not be able to see.
(I also contend that this is the first time baby boomers are being told that their age is a deciding factor against them. Being a rich, smart, successful, super-soccer-mom isn't getting them through the door. It is another shock to their delicate psyches. They remember all too well what they've meant when they lorded the "generation gap" over their parents and grand parents for all these years)
They screw over poor women, single women with children and when it comes to a woman's right to control her own body - abortion, birth control, they act like we're some stupid three year old who is incapable of making decisions for ourselves so we need some man to make them for us. John McCain scored a bloody 0 when it comes to where he stands on womens issues - the right to choose, access to birth control, etc.
So I don't care if it was a woman running against Obama. If she's GOP - she'll never get my vote. And frankly, me personally, I believe that any woman who would be a member of the GOP or vote for them - is secretly a masochist. But some women, they are really good at shooting themselves in the foot and undermining their gender as a whole - just like HC did thanks to the ugly way she ran her campaign.
It is perfectly clear to anyone who looks that McCain has an anti-woman voting record, NARAL (National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League) rated him a zero out of one-hundred. That is pathetic. As a "progressive" Democrat, how could you agree with the policies of a man like that? As a "feminist" how could you vote for a man who cheated on his disabled wife, left her for a younger woman and called that younger woman a c*nt?
What exactly is the "white woman's" problem with Obama? I am not saying all white women, I know plenty that will vote for him, but I'm talking about who the article is referring to. THEY DO EXIST. To deny it is foolish. Not everyone who isn't voting for Obama is a racist, but to deny him a vote because you supported Clinton is idiocy and ignorance.
The PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES should not be decided by race or gender. It is supposed to be the PERSON who is BEST FOR OUR NATION. If these people think John McCain is better for America, so be it. But, as dhonig says, the blood of one-thousand back-alley abortions will be on YOUR hands, "feminists."
Just my 2 cents :)