AMERICAblog: Krugman expressing doubts about Obama massive tax cut plan
Bush Bites
· 10 months ago
If the tax cuts are supposed to give the quick jolt to the economy, and the spending to give the long-term investment, I don't know why they have to commit to a certain amount of tax cuts at this point.
Can't they get approval for a certain amount, then only use it if they need it? Seems like that would be the smart way to go, though I know Washington doesn't usually work smartly.
SCLiberal
· 10 months ago
As long as we have two wings of one party in this country things won't change significantly. I'm quickly reaching the point where I don't care anymore.
Bush Bites
· 10 months ago
This sounds like a hell of a gamble--both politically and economically.
Should be interesting.
Older_Wiser
· 10 months ago
Fuck the Rethuglicons.
Give to the needy, not the greedy.
Bush Bites
· 10 months ago
Obama strategists say he wants to get 80 or more votes in the 100-member Senate, and the emphasis on tax cuts is a way to defuse conservative criticism and enlist Republican support.
But officials say the tax cuts will be based on historical and empirical evidence of what works, not ideology. Rather, the targeted tax cuts will be designed to stimulate job growth in the private sector and help middle class families, the officials said.
depends on who is compiling and analysing the "evidence"
Steve_in_CNJ
· 10 months ago
i remember bush was trying to get 80 senators for the iraq invasion. just saying.
thingwarbler
· 10 months ago
yeah, well, the difference was that he didn't compromise for a second because he didn't have to -- more than enough spineless Dems were more than eager to buy into his shitty plan to blow a trillion dollars killing other people's kids. Meanwhile, the new D approach to negotiating appears to be to simply cave in up front, thus sparing us the embarrassing spectacle and humiliation of their inevitably caving in small increments while the GOP stands firm. The net result for the rest of us is the same, of course: we get screwed, the oh-so-serious Villagers can pat each other on the back for a job well done, and Obama can eloquently explain that getting screwed as a consequence of an ill-conceived neo-con agenda being served up by a D prez and a D Congress is *so* different from being screwed as a consequence of a neo-con agenda being served up by Dubya et al. Real change, that.
Bush Bites
· 10 months ago
Also from the Republico article:
Later in the week, probably Thursday, Obama plans to give a speech in the Washington area taking the case for his package directly to the public, emphasizing the urgency of the crisis and the fact that unemployment could slip over 10 percent if decisive action is not taken.
Obama will talk about the economic crisis and the response it requires, and the setting will be a serious one that will make the appearance very different from a campaign speech, aides said.
The speech is designed as a contrast to the approach taken by President George W. Bush, who has been criticized for not sufficiently explaining his solutions to the economic crisis, including the Wall Street bailout that has now been extended to automakers.
Aides described the speech as part of a carefully planned effort to sell the stimulus package to the country, including nationwide travel by Obama and his inner circle.
About 10 percent of the stimulus package will consist of expansion of unemployment insurance and COBRA health insurance for people whose coverage might otherwise be terminated.
The package also consists of infrastructure investments such as roads and bridges; long-term investments in energy, health care and education; and aid to states, such as more generous Medicaid reimbursement rates.
The proportions those measures will take in the final passage have not been specified.
Forty2
· 10 months ago
30 years of tax-cut nonsense hasn't worked before, but it'll work this time for sure?
To paraphrase Cheney, Reagan proved that tax cuts don't matter.
You cannot tax-less and spend your way out of a recession/depression. The math does not work, and math does not lie. Also: someone needs to give Obama & Claque a refresher lesson on how compound interest works.
dula
· 10 months ago
40% will be tax cuts. Tax cuts for who?
mikeyDe
· 10 months ago
new entry on my todo-list:
go to courthouse, change party affiliation to Republican, just so I can be pandered to.
KarenMrsLloydRichards
· 10 months ago
A latte a week with my $500 tax cut, spread out over a year. With a biscotti, alongside, as my 'Obama Bonus Treat'.
Starbucks should be able to re-open those "stores" it announced it was closing.
(Meanwhile, Sasha and Malia start school today. For lunch at their $28K per year school today:
Corn Chowder Vintner's Salad Cheese Tortellini with Garden Marinara Garlic Organic Greenbeans Clementines Snack: Grapes and Graham Crackers)
tigergrrldc
· 10 months ago
And your point about the school lunch is...? I would hope for $28k they would get a little bit more than fish sticks. I like how people think the daughters of the President of the United States should go to subpar schools. I don't remember such an uproar when Chelsea Clinton went to Sidwell friends, but maybe I missed that.
Older_Wiser
· 10 months ago
Of course they shouldn't go to subpar schools. NO children should.
KarenMrsLloydRichards
· 10 months ago
Instead of just throwing our hands up in the air and permitting the DC schools to be subpar, serving fattening cheap food to a permanent underclass, we should ALL work to make them better. That includes the Obamas.
The lunches at Sidwell Friends vs. those at the DC public schools effectively symbolize Two Nations. The tax cuts perpetuate the Haves and the Have Nots.
That's my point.
Jay
· 10 months ago
Uh.....excuse me? Are you saying those girls aren't GOOD enough for a quality education?
KarenMrsLloydRichards
· 10 months ago
If Sasha and Malia were at a DC public school, they would be eating (tomorrow):
Meat Loaf w/ Gravy Dinner Roll Mashed Potatoes Fresh Apple [sic] Lowfat Milk Choice (Chocolate, Strawberry, Plain)
Older_Wiser
· 10 months ago
Some of the only meals poor kids in DC (as well as the rest of the country) get is breakfast and lunch at school. And that meal, unfortunately, is loaded with carbs, artificial ingredients and fat (compared to the Sidwell menu). I'm not bitching about where the Obama kids go to school (easily paid out of the president's salary and needed for security) so much as the disparity in what the privileged get and what the overworked and underpaid or unemployed get. Schools like Sidwell are all over the country.
I will continue to brew my own coffee the rest of my life. P.S. Yes, I've eaten school cafeteria food with my grandchildren, and it's awful...even the so-called "salads."
maudgonne
· 10 months ago
Not to mention SALT in such incredible amounts that it would make an adult with a low salt goal GAG....
caphillprof
· 10 months ago
The only way to stimulate the economy from the bottom is to issue check cards per capita, good for only the purchase of goods and services and the cards expire in 90 days--use it or lose it (i.e. no saving, no paying down debt, just pure spending). All the rest of this is just dog paddling.
Obama is going to waste 1 or 2 years risking the country on the altar of bi-partisanship and by then it will be too late.
Gbennett
· 10 months ago
I agree with Krugman (and Frank) that Obama is seeming weak. He has already given in to Reps in his Warren choice and now with the bailout. Why not learn something from Bush II and go for that 50% plus 1? Dems just are not mean or savvy enough, I guess. Time will tell, but the post-partisanship that Obama is trying to engage in does not inspire confidence.
Gridlock
· 10 months ago
bi partisanship only works if both sides are willing to compromise.
The Rethugs don't compromise. The last 8 years have shown that.
Why are people so f#cking stupid?
HelenaMontana
· 10 months ago
Will Karl Rove play Barack Obama like a violin? Time will tell.
naschkatzehussein
· 10 months ago
I saw Obama being interviewed by Wolf Blitzer fairly recently and being pinned down to name his topmost priorities if he is not able, as it appears, to get all the things he wants immediately. One of them was to build a new electric grid in this country. Please, President Obama, do not give up on this idea. What we have now is falling apart, is not coordinated well nationally, and puts us at risk in a national security sense. Creating a new grid would create jobs all across the country and will benefit the country for many years into the future. Since Obama thinks the current system poses a threat to our national security, I don't see why he could not direct some of that defense money aside for this project.
tigergrrldc
· 10 months ago
Am I misrembering that a Democrat won the presidential election? Why does Obama feel the need to kowtow to the Republicans? They helped get us in this mess and he wants to appease them? McCain might as well have won. At least, this would make some sense. Jeez.
tigergrrldc
· 10 months ago
misremembering
KarenMrsLloydRichards
· 10 months ago
We all seem to think that a 6% margin of victory was not a mandate. The GOP and the media are happy to promote this idea.
cowboyneok
· 10 months ago
Note to Obama:
The message sent in the last election wasn't to be nice to Republicans, but to lead fighting Democratic progressives and tell the Republicans, who have been in charge when all the disastrous decisions were made to sit down and shut the F*** up!
Dianne_in_DC
· 10 months ago
I don't believe tax cuts will do anything. I'm speaking from my own perspective -- I lost my job a year ago and was out of work for 7 months. I started working again in September. So far, I am saving close to $1K a month because I have not gone back to my pre-job loss ways of spending, and I don't intend to! Until Americans feel secure in their jobs, with their health, with their families, they are not going to do the spending needed to bring the economy back. IMHO we need a different kind of economy as well.
TomJoad
· 10 months ago
I agree about needing a different kind of economy. It is just not that easy to see what it might or could be.
The race, to use up resources, and an economy fueled by buying garbage (that then has to be disposed of carefully, so send it to third world countries to get sick from) seems doomed. I just don't know how a better one would look, what it would be based on, how it would work.
RevDrBillyBob
· 10 months ago
What ? Bahney Fwank is pwetending to be something besides a Wimpocrat ? Really ? HA HA ! .... Wimpocrats = Republicans.
TomJoad
· 10 months ago
It's OT and unimportant, but stuff like this just drives me batty: "Rove has repeated a stunt he first fed to the press two years ago: he is once again claiming that he and Bush have an annual book-reading contest, with Bush chalking up as many as 95 books a year, by authors as hifalutin as Camus."
The absolute (and not in the childlike wonder, good sense) childishness of the Bush administration just gets me. They, ALL, seem like petulant teens, in their thinking, their reactions, their appointments, their whining... And here, again... pre-teen actually, anyone with kids remembers when they start learning to read a LOT of importance is placed on quantity, "I read ALL this", "that book looks HARD", etc. and doesn't take most long to find out that that has nothing to do with it (just like it isn't "better" to play the minute waltz in 30 seconds) and that it is content that matters.
Maybe that is the common theme for them. They always seem to think content doesn't matter, in anything.
And just like that, though dumb like Bush scared me all these years, smart is not necessarily good enough, Obama worries me that he seems to be also choosing the deregulation cheerleaders to be point men on fixing the economy. Even I know that the seperation of the financial entities that was done after the depression was removed and that is why we are in this mess today. It takes into account human nature, greed, and isn't dependant on them being voluntarily "long-sighted"...
Older_Wiser
· 10 months ago
Even if Bush read "The Trial" (Kafka) he obviously didn't comprehend it...he needs one of his own before he even begins to understand it. Before the World Court.
gary
· 10 months ago
sigh, and to think it was just a day ago that I was pursecuted and flamed for suggesting Krugman to replace Richardson for Commerce Sec.
Well kids . . .the "commie leftie socialist" Krugman nails it again. . .get a backbone and remember just who got elected.
TomJoad
· 10 months ago
I sure wouldn't have persecuted you. I've been thinking all along, that would be about the best news I could read, Krugman leading commerce.
I don't know if his knowledge and insight can transfer to actual leadership, and all, but I'd love to see him try, and at very least have official input.
Look how much a numbnut (unelected) sleazebag like Rove had on the Bush WH...would be a lot more positive if Krugman had some more influence on Obamas'.
gary
· 10 months ago
thank you, your response warmed my heart.
dula
· 10 months ago
Obama seems so concerned about reaching out to the Right who have been pandered to for the past 8 years. It is the Progressives who need the outstretched hand. Sadly, I don't believe there is one true Progressive amongst those whom Obama has chosen to surround himself with. Krugman would be fab.
EmGD
· 10 months ago
Sorry, but Republicans are actually beaten down? They aren't emboldened? Right now they're planning on trying to stop the seating of a legally elected and certified Senator and have already announced plans to filibuster any stimulus. Adding in tax cuts that he already campaigned on to the stimulus doesn't seem like it's going to embolden anyone. Republicans already act as if they can do anything without consequences, I doubt this will make them feel that even moreso.
My advice to prez elect obama think back what happened to clinton back in 92 he decided for not better but worse to play mr nice guy with the rethugs ....ans what happened trivial investigation after trivial investigation then impeaqchment ...its no diffrent this time bill clinton decided to quash the investiogation ligitamate I might add of reagan bush for iran contra...now we have the bush admin and there illegal activities and still no serious investigations it will never make a diffrence to be nice you have to be strong of will and idea and call the rethugs on there obstructions ...but then again obama wants to be nice and the dim leaderes will continue to be spineless
Akaison
· 10 months ago
Exactly: this makes him appear weak.
nicho
· 10 months ago
I hate to beat a horse (although this one isn't really dead), but this is what the Rick Warren thing was so significant. It's a clear sign of a willingness -- no, eagerness -- to pander to the right.
So, now we have another signal that the "change" we voted for really wasn't change at all -- just the same old shit in a different package.
So, we've got vichy Dems and Republicans in the cabinet and at the advisory level, we've got a rabid-right bigot keynoting the inauguration, we've got tax-break handouts under the guise of stimulus. Anyone want to guess what's next?
katiec
· 10 months ago
Until the republicans begin to put country before party we will continue on the road to destruction. They have yet to face up to or acknowledge all the mistakes they made these last eight years. Their policies almost detroyed our country, yet they continue on with politics as usual. What will it take to make them realize our survival is at stake?
larry
· 10 months ago
Ok so lets not give that middle class tax cut Obama promised for nearly 3 years. McConnell and the GOP in Congress will be the least of our problems if he cannot deliver on that, health care, green and jobs. The electorate will hand the democrats there asses to them and put life back into the GOP. Yeah, lets all blah blah blah...act like republicans and snipe at a plan that to my knowledge is not even out.....sure. BEING REPORTED: by who...who has actually seen the damn thing? We are now speculating about speculation. Wow...
Akaison
· 10 months ago
The point is it has nothing to do with stimulus. He should pass that separately. This is not speculation. Tax policy as stimulus failed under bush. What will change now? becuase it's Obama?
maudgonne
· 10 months ago
....one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali: "We don't consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas." William Scott would understand. Did we expect starving Somalians to stand passively on their beaches, paddling in our toxic waste, and watch us snatch their fish to eat in restaurants in London and Paris and Rome? We won't act on those crimes – the only sane solution to this problem – but when some of the fishermen responded by disrupting the transit-corridor for 20 per cent of the world's oil supply, we swiftly send in the gunboats. http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentato...
john
· 10 months ago
These cuts seem to me to be the work of Rahm Emmanuel. After working in the Clinton administration he went to work on Wall Street and made millions. I don't know for sure but I bet these tax cuts seem to be something he would push. He needs to go. He has an ajenda that is counter to the "change" that the country now needs.
S. Smith
· 10 months ago
I feel like I'm on FR or some other similar Obama bashing site. I won't be visiting your site anymore. I find you alienating and unrelentingly negative and cynical.
gary
· 10 months ago
Given the direction Obama has taken, and, being realistic. . ..
Holding the people we've voted into office accountable is "unrelentingly negative". . ."cynical"?
. .I don't think so.
I say feet to the fire.
TomJoad
· 10 months ago
The inclusion of Hillary, and (though this is way early to juge, since he isn't in office yet) recent steps he has taken, I REALLY hope this is not going to be some Clintonian continuation of "moderat right wing" agendas.
All Comments
Can't they get approval for a certain amount, then only use it if they need it? Seems like that would be the smart way to go, though I know Washington doesn't usually work smartly.
Should be interesting.
Give to the needy, not the greedy.
But officials say the tax cuts will be based on historical and empirical evidence of what works, not ideology. Rather, the targeted tax cuts will be designed to stimulate job growth in the private sector and help middle class families, the officials said.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17039...
(of course, they probably all say that.)
Meanwhile, the new D approach to negotiating appears to be to simply cave in up front, thus sparing us the embarrassing spectacle and humiliation of their inevitably caving in small increments while the GOP stands firm.
The net result for the rest of us is the same, of course: we get screwed, the oh-so-serious Villagers can pat each other on the back for a job well done, and Obama can eloquently explain that getting screwed as a consequence of an ill-conceived neo-con agenda being served up by a D prez and a D Congress is *so* different from being screwed as a consequence of a neo-con agenda being served up by Dubya et al.
Real change, that.
Later in the week, probably Thursday, Obama plans to give a speech in the Washington area taking the case for his package directly to the public, emphasizing the urgency of the crisis and the fact that unemployment could slip over 10 percent if decisive action is not taken.
Obama will talk about the economic crisis and the response it requires, and the setting will be a serious one that will make the appearance very different from a campaign speech, aides said.
The speech is designed as a contrast to the approach taken by President George W. Bush, who has been criticized for not sufficiently explaining his solutions to the economic crisis, including the Wall Street bailout that has now been extended to automakers.
Aides described the speech as part of a carefully planned effort to sell the stimulus package to the country, including nationwide travel by Obama and his inner circle.
About 10 percent of the stimulus package will consist of expansion of unemployment insurance and COBRA health insurance for people whose coverage might otherwise be terminated.
The package also consists of infrastructure investments such as roads and bridges; long-term investments in energy, health care and education; and aid to states, such as more generous Medicaid reimbursement rates.
The proportions those measures will take in the final passage have not been specified.
To paraphrase Cheney, Reagan proved that tax cuts don't matter.
You cannot tax-less and spend your way out of a recession/depression. The math does not work, and math does not lie. Also: someone needs to give Obama & Claque a refresher lesson on how compound interest works.
go to courthouse, change party affiliation to Republican, just so I can be pandered to.
Starbucks should be able to re-open those "stores" it announced it was closing.
(Meanwhile, Sasha and Malia start school today. For lunch at their $28K per year school today:
Corn Chowder
Vintner's Salad
Cheese Tortellini with Garden Marinara
Garlic Organic Greenbeans
Clementines
Snack: Grapes and Graham Crackers)
The lunches at Sidwell Friends vs. those at the DC public schools effectively symbolize Two Nations. The tax cuts perpetuate the Haves and the Have Nots.
That's my point.
Meat Loaf w/ Gravy
Dinner Roll
Mashed Potatoes
Fresh Apple [sic]
Lowfat Milk Choice (Chocolate, Strawberry, Plain)
I will continue to brew my own coffee the rest of my life.
P.S. Yes, I've eaten school cafeteria food with my grandchildren, and it's awful...even the so-called "salads."
Obama is going to waste 1 or 2 years risking the country on the altar of bi-partisanship and by then it will be too late.
The Rethugs don't compromise. The last 8 years have shown that.
Why are people so f#cking stupid?
The message sent in the last election wasn't to be nice to Republicans, but to lead fighting Democratic progressives and tell the Republicans, who have been in charge when all the disastrous decisions were made to sit down and shut the F*** up!
The race, to use up resources, and an economy fueled by buying garbage (that then has to be disposed of carefully, so send it to third world countries to get sick from) seems doomed. I just don't know how a better one would look, what it would be based on, how it would work.
"Rove has repeated a stunt he first fed to the press two years ago: he is once again claiming that he and Bush have an annual book-reading contest, with Bush chalking up as many as 95 books a year, by authors as hifalutin as Camus."
The absolute (and not in the childlike wonder, good sense) childishness of the Bush administration just gets me. They, ALL, seem like petulant teens, in their thinking, their reactions, their appointments, their whining...
And here, again... pre-teen actually, anyone with kids remembers when they start learning to read a LOT of importance is placed on quantity, "I read ALL this", "that book looks HARD", etc. and doesn't take most long to find out that that has nothing to do with it (just like it isn't "better" to play the minute waltz in 30 seconds) and that it is content that matters.
Maybe that is the common theme for them. They always seem to think content doesn't matter, in anything.
And just like that, though dumb like Bush scared me all these years, smart is not necessarily good enough, Obama worries me that he seems to be also choosing the deregulation cheerleaders to be point men on fixing the economy. Even I know that the seperation of the financial entities that was done after the depression was removed and that is why we are in this mess today. It takes into account human nature, greed, and isn't dependant on them being voluntarily "long-sighted"...
Well kids . . .the "commie leftie socialist" Krugman nails it again. . .get a backbone and remember just who got elected.
I don't know if his knowledge and insight can transfer to actual leadership, and all, but I'd love to see him try, and at very least have official input.
Look how much a numbnut (unelected) sleazebag like Rove had on the Bush WH...would be a lot more positive if Krugman had some more influence on Obamas'.
http://thesebastards.blogspot.com/
So, now we have another signal that the "change" we voted for really wasn't change at all -- just the same old shit in a different package.
So, we've got vichy Dems and Republicans in the cabinet and at the advisory level, we've got a rabid-right bigot keynoting the inauguration, we've got tax-break handouts under the guise of stimulus. Anyone want to guess what's next?
What will it take to make them realize our survival is at stake?
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentato...
Holding the people we've voted into office accountable is "unrelentingly negative". . ."cynical"?
. .I don't think so.
I say feet to the fire.