DISQUS

foxy · 1 year ago

pffft! Next! The Lord certainly works in mysterious ways.

Rev_Sacrilege · 1 year ago

I say out all of the people who supported it. It's wonderful to see people rising up about this.

davidkc · 1 year ago

Oh boo friggin' hoo. A man funds an effort to deny thousands of people of their equal rights and we're supposed to be sorry for him because he lost his job???? This is not about religion. It is about bigots getting their due. Payback is a bitch.

Butch1 · 1 year ago

He didn't lose his job, it was his choice to resign.

SkippyFlipjack · 1 year ago

What's your ceiling on payback? Is punching him in the face too much? Not enough? Just about right?

SkippyFlipjack · 1 year ago

In a previous thread on this issue, I took exception to the idea of trying to get people fired for donating to the Yes on 8 cause, and a couple of people said that they were just outing them, not trying to get them fired. As John's post makes clear, the goal is to get people fired from their jobs. I think it's wrong.

I hope that everyone who called the LA Film Festival in an effort to get the guy fired also gave money to "No on 8" before November 4th, when it might have mattered. If not, you need to ask who really deserves your scorn.

MGBYG · 1 year ago

I voted here in California. I voted No to PropH8. I did not give money. So I am not allowed a voice?

What exactly is the flowchart between the two issues? Money and voicing opinion?

BTW, Scorn? Really? So 19th Century, that.

What of your projected anger?

SkippyFlipjack · 1 year ago

Our goal is to let anyone in California -- and the rest of the country -- marry the person they love, period. That goal was dealt a pretty significant setback in California, in large part because the hateful side raised a bunch more money than the rational side. I just think that everyone who's so eager to attack the nasty people who loaded up one side of the see-saw should ask at the same time if they did all they could to keep the other side from being the one in the air. So maybe while people are calling the LA Film Festival to complain about Richard Raddon they can also be thinking about saving their pennies to donate to "Yes on [x]" when the time comes to reaffirm *everyone's* right to marriage.

John Aravosis · 1 year ago

I said nothing about trying to get people fired, and in fact this guy resigned after getting the unanimous support of his bosses. But I do, again, find it interesting that you have more sympathy for one job than you do the civil rights of millions of Americans. It's okay for him to pay to take away someone's marriage but that person shouldn't try to take away his job in return. So a job is more important than a marriage. More important than love. Fascinating.

kevinbgoode · 1 year ago

Exactly, John. They are playing that "free pass" card again - like the Right has been doing all along - just by claiming their "privately-held religious beliefs" entitle them to demand my civil rights be revoked.

No more free passes to members of a "church" who willingly join an organization knowing their doctrine is to persecute other American citizens.

SkippyFlipjack · 1 year ago

John, we disagree about whether you were trying to get anyone fired, but you sure don't mind that it happened. That said, I don't have more sympathy for him than for my gay friends whose marriages are now in jeopardy. All I want is for their marriages to be protected, and I don't think this guy's quitting his job helps them one bit.

Nakhone · 1 year ago

Skippy Dearest: It sure sends a signal. If you've been paying attention during this debate, it was all symbolism that won the war. They side invoked the God of Fear and instilled into the hearts and minds of the voters and that's how they won. Why do you give a shit about a bigot that took your rights away. If I can have my way, I wish (and will work really hard to boycott them endlessly) that all the businesses that donated one cent to the Yes side will go under and that all the individuals who contributed to this same hateful Campaign to take my rights away will lose their jobs. Or do you prefer that our enemies keep earning money and putting it into their war chest to bankroll another hateful proposition to ban gay adoptions? Because they will, STUPID! What do you think happened in Arkansas? They started with a gay marriage ban and when that passed they were emboldened and went after gay adoptions. Do you have any sympathy for those families Skippy? Let me tell you something, I was part of the Georgians Against Discrimination Campaign trying to defeat Amendment 1 but we lost. The next year, the love of my life died from complications from Aids and I was not allowed to see him in the ICU because we're not considered married and now I will never have a chance to say goodbye to my lover. I hope you reconsider your sympathy for our Haters. They don't deserve it.

SkippyFlipjack · 1 year ago

Nakhone - I'm sorry for your loss; your experience is the end result that the Mormons don't want to think about (or let others think about). we agree on the end goal, we just differ on the strategy. Please don't call me stupid.

As for Mr. Raddon, if he was severely beaten for his Yes-on-8 contribution, would you think that was wrong? If so, we feel the same, but just have a different threshold.

High Crimes & Misdemeanors · 1 year ago

Skippy, you apparently missed the point BIG time. The narrowness of your train of thought is astounding.

A man gives money to an organization that repudiates the very existence in which gay folk live their lives. That money he has gained on his salary in theater/film industry, which gay folk have become so much a part of and you think he should keep his job for that?? He publicly gave money to a cause that takes rights AWAY from people. How is it we should be sorry for him????

Please explain this?

SkippyFlipjack · 1 year ago

Funny, the breadth of your patronization is rather astounding as well.

Know that I gave money to No on 8, I was out on the street holding signs, I did phone banking, I went to one of the rallies afterward. I think everyone who voted "yes" on that proposition is mean and hateful, and have said as much to everyone who will listen. I'll do anything I can to get gay marriage legalized here. However, I have a big problem with this angle of attack.

In Los Angeles, everyone's in the film industry. Seriously, go into any bar and grab the first person you bump into, and I'll put ten bucks to your one that they're in the business. Everyone in California works with and for gay people; this guy deserves special scorn because he's in LA and in the film business?

I'm fine with outing all the supporters; I think their friends and family should know about their views. But I don't like the idea of a few individual people being proxies for everyone's anger. It just isn't right. And yes, I get the point. I just don't like it.

Gary SF · 1 year ago

While I too wince when something like this happens, he did quit. I think it has less to do with those of us who called and said that we were going to boycott than it does with the fact that he had to face his co-workers. I am guessing that just as in the case of the theater company in Sacramento, this guy was surrounded by gays, lesbians and straights who support same-sex marriage. Coming to work everyday and facing them had to be pretty difficult. I know that if one of my co-workers donated to take away my rights, our relationship would be forever changed and not for the better.

kevinbgoode · 1 year ago

Exactly. And they have no business whining about their actions, or trying to pretend to hide behind some vague "privately-held religious beliefs" line of manure. He was a willing tool of his Church and actively contributed money to assault the constitutional rights of his friends and co-workers.

I'm sick of these "religious" people trying to explain that they believe in equal rights for "everyone" and then turn around and donate money over a stupid, goddamned WORD - KNOWING that the effect of the proposition would be to eliminate the legal marriages of tens of thousands of citizens. And he did it for his CHURCH - not for the churches of the victims of this atrocity. He inflicted this pain with full knowledge of the effects.

kevinbgoode · 1 year ago

He wasn't fired.

SkippyFlipjack · 1 year ago

I'm not sure I get the distinction. Do the people who took part in the phone and email campaign care how specifically he was separated from his job?

Nakhone · 1 year ago

SkippyFlipjack: What's wrong is to pretend to be an innocent victim when he consciously chose to donate money to support an unprecedented constitutional to the State constitution to simultaneously inscribe discrimination into the most sacred document of the State as well as to eliminate constitutionally guaranteed fundamental rights from a minority. He's a director of the LA Film Festival not some uneducated school boy at BYU. Puh--leeze!

Mark in Florida · 1 year ago

Would you think it OK to have someone lose their job who activiely donated large sums of money to the KKK? And they worked for say Black entertainement TV? Or made a living from working for Ebony magazine? Would that be OK with you?

SkippyFlipjack · 1 year ago

So, Ebony is to African-Americans as the movie business is to gay people? Really?

The goal is to have everyone in the country be able to marry whomever they want. I don't think trying to get Raddon fired is a step toward achieving that goal.

MGBYG · 1 year ago

Anti-Gay in LA?

WTF?

He must commute home to a McMansion behind the Orange Curtain...the 405 if full of 'em... Bangled-butt 5-series and BlueTooth StarTrek headset crawling along....

Ben Dover · 1 year ago

This is wonderful news. I doubt he'll go without a job for very long. Perhaps he can find gainful employment by producing a documentary on the Mountain Meadows Massacre that the murderous Mormon Cult committed.

High Crimes & Misdemeanors · 1 year ago

When you use the power of the state to rip away my civil rights, and force me to live by your "values," you are no longer practicing your religion. You're practicing politics. And in politics, we have the right - nay, the duty - to fight back.

-----------------------
eggfugginxactly!!!!

apparently the bill condoms of the world haven't figured out that little nugget on civics.

AdmNaismith · 1 year ago

Most of the people like Rodden blindly followed some directive from the Mormons and gave money to a cause without thinking about the consequences, or really what they were doing at all.
Maybe in their unemployment, they can meditate on the fact that blind, unthinking actions like funding hate have repercussions and that you should think carefully before fucking with other people's lives.

I'm really not very sanguine that people like this are being judged for their actions in a very clear and direct way. Karma is very real whether you are Hindu or not.

lucky hussein · 1 year ago

coming soon to a republican near you: 'baby jesus wants us to have anonymous donations for political campaigns...'. guaranteed.

DavidinPS · 1 year ago

Oh, yeah, this one is coming up REAL soon.

No more public donations. All secret.

Soundboy_jeff_meanie · 1 year ago

not for 4-8 years anyway.

hopefully, during these coming years, there will be a DEFINATIVE separation of church and state laid out in legislation.

Catman51 · 1 year ago

Goodbye to another H8er. All the rest should go bye-bye too.

jharp · 1 year ago

effe him.

And great work gentlemen. Think about it. A bigot just paid $1,500 to make things so uncomfortable that he resigned.

That is the power of having the truth on your side.

Mark in Florida · 1 year ago

Yes, it is awesome. The power of the internet...and another example of how the internet is the great equalizer and a friend of democracy. They cannot hide anymore. Imagine in the past having to go a library, look up microfilm records....etc.....good god. It's amazing we have any justice.

DavidinPS · 1 year ago

No one was fired.

Raddon resigned, like the guy in Sacramento, because he realized his job had become extremely difficult to continue. Nothing more, nothing less.

What is really curious to me is that if, say, a coach of a largely black basketball team was found to have donated to a Proposition that would make interracial marriage illegal, there would be ZERO of this hand wringing I read on this board.

As John says, where is the outrage for the truly offended here?

Soundboy_jeff_meanie · 1 year ago

history hasn't caught up to bigotry against gays... yet.

one of the main reasons they don't want to see gay marriage pass in Ca. is that California usually pushes the rest of the country forward when it comes to civil rights... that means, eventually, the federal government would have to recognize we exist.

if none of the minorities can't be persecuted anymore... what hope does organized religion have for a future?

there always has to be some group to instill fear in the flock. When we're gone, who's left?

eclare · 1 year ago

There's always fear of death. Isn't that where it all stems from anyway?

Nakhone · 1 year ago

Illegal immigrants. I can guarantee it. That's who they'll crusade against. Haven't you seen the resurgence of the KKK? It's ironic the Latinos have voted with the same people that will turn around and stab them in the back just like the Blacks stabbed us in the back.

SkippyFlipjack · 1 year ago

I bet the Latinos and the Blacks fight over who gets to be your friend.

High Crimes & Misdemeanors · 1 year ago

I'm quite sure if black folk who saw this and were able to garner enough public outcry as John A and his people have - then yes, then the coach should be fired!!

The mere fact that the coach gave money in opposition to this, publicly, opens the door for those who repudiate those actions and in turn say NO in disgust and to publicly say no to such an astoundingly stupid move. He's fair game for ridicule, let the public speak.

And yes, while John A. caters to mostly gay topics, I'm sure there would be outcry, as he has done so on civil right issues, but the outcry needs to come from black folks more so, they are the injured party.

Your argument is weak.

John Aravosis · 1 year ago

LOL You misread David's post. He's agreeing with us. He's saying that if it were a coach of a black university's sports team donating to a racist cause no one would dare say "aww, the poor man lost his job, thats mean."

High Crimes & Misdemeanors · 1 year ago

huh - i read it differently. let me read it again....to make sure....

Nakhone · 1 year ago

John made a point in one of his post yesterday that HOMOPHOBIA is still a socially acceptable form of bigotry. If we're boycotting Condon (gasp--I said it) then we might as well boycott Forest Whitaker as well because he's on the Film Independent's board and he voted to note accept Raddon's resignation initially. Anyone with me?

buddhamania · 1 year ago

I used to work at Film Independent. Forest Whitaker rarely attended Board meetings. There's a good chance that he, as well as many others listed as Board members, did not vote on this matter.

Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood) · 1 year ago

Some of you are saying he "lost" his job. No, he resigned of his own free will. BIG difference.

High Crimes & Misdemeanors · 1 year ago

ok he was pushed out the door. potaytoe/potatoe. He resigned because he could not face the bitch slap he was gonna get from all those people in the industry. The people fired his ass - per se.

Nakhone · 1 year ago

High Crimes: If I can push him down the stairs while he was leaving his office I will. I can't stand these MFers playing victim when they just trampled on our civil rights. Now that is audacity.

Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood) · 1 year ago

Off with his head!

Soundboy_jeff_meanie · 1 year ago

perfectly said John...

And DavidinPS is right... he submitted his resignation, they originally refused to accept it... and he quit anyway.

but they weren't his 'privately held religious beliefs'... once he took his beliefs outside of the voting booth and contributed to 'yes on 8', they were publicly held political views.

one thing to ponder, dinosaurs will die... it must suck to be on the wrong side of history, especially in a field largely populated by the GLBT community.

he made his choice on our rights public.

Lost my rights · 1 year ago

It's okay to be religous as long as you stay in the closet.

kevinbgoode · 1 year ago

"I'm personally saddened by the outcome," said Film Independent board member Bill Condon, the writer-director of "Dreamgirls." "Someone has lost his job and possibly his livelihood because of privately held religious beliefs.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Someone needs to send Bill Condon back to a high school government class. Obviously, someone isn't expressing "privately-held religious beliefs" when they dole out money to a political campaign at the direction of his "church." Maybe Condon needs to learn the difference between holding PRIVATE religious beliefs and opening your wallet to persecute other citizens and publicly campaign for the removal of their constitutional rights. When you do that, those beliefs are no longer PRIVATE, stupid.

I've had my fill of Bill Condon's PERSONAL opinion. If his opinion is so damned PERSONAL, then why is he flapping his gums at the media about a political topic that he obviously knows nothing about? Go write a screenplay, Condon - but please don't choose a political topic or something about gay rights. It's obvious you don't have the first clue.

Dale Lazarov · 1 year ago

It's to bad that the analytical skills required to represent dance and music performance on film don't transfer to an understanding of public and private spheres as well as faith and politics in 21st C. America.

rodnacious · 1 year ago

It is unfathomable for me to be able to reason why one person would want to limit the right to freedom of choice to another person simply because that person does not think or act the same way that you do.

Those whose religious views prevent them from understanding why should remember that the bible says "Judge not, less ye be judged". In other words, mine your own business and leave well enough along - a straight guy standing for free of choice.

High Crimes & Misdemeanors · 1 year ago

The only rights that were limited were gay folks, rod, and gay folks stood up and spoke in response to the limitation of rights, publicly.

You have a limited view of the story all screwed up, that's why it's unfathomable to you, your not getting the other side of the equation.

John Aravosis · 1 year ago

Again, High Crimes, I believe you are totally misreading what people are writing here today. I'll bet that Rod just agreed with me and you, and you attacked him for it. Re-read what he wrote, he's agreeing with us :-)

High Crimes & Misdemeanors · 1 year ago

huh - again - John - what am i missing from these posts??? im usually on target here. although i think some of the posts are somewhat generalized. i must be off my meds.... lol.... i think ill go get some food in me.... my brain is on overloaded from a tough week in school. <<<<HCnM - step away from the key board>>>>

the turkey weekend is comin up. looks like i could use the rest.

rodnacious · 1 year ago

Let me make myself clear - I am against dicrimination in any form. I believe that the marraige of two individuals should not be confined to just a man and a woman. It is not the right of anyone to limit the freedoms of another person simply because they don't want that person to enjoy what they themselves are enjoying.

I am a Viet Nam veteran and twenty year serviceman. I have put my life on the line for the freedoms of all citizens of these United States. I also know the ins and outs of discrimination - my ancestors were brought here in the belly of slave ships. I don't have a misconception about prejudice - do you?

Indigo · 1 year ago

Yes, fair enough. I get your point, it's just a bit abstractly phrased. In a highly charged discussion like this you could spell out more clearly who "one person" and "another person" are. Also, invoking bible texts is habitually suspect in liberal discourse because biblism arises in a distateful setting. But you're sweet to care. Thanks, str8t-guy.

John Nation · 1 year ago

DAMN SKIPPY JOHN! GREAT POINTS!!!

Gary SF · 1 year ago

Maybe the Mormons can create a Hate Film Festival and offer him a job. Or a Creepy, Stinky Magic Underwear Film Festival. Or the Joseph Smith Pedophile Polygamist Film Festival. Those whacky Mormons - who knows what mad-cap stuff they'll do next!

Soundboy_jeff_meanie · 1 year ago

you know... every year in places across the country, historic battles of the Civil war are re-enacted.

I'm starting to think maybe we should get the GLBT community together and stage a yearly re-enactment of the Mountain Meadows Massacre in Utah.

just for the press.

hrh · 1 year ago

BRILLIANT ! ! ! ! !

Webster · 1 year ago

Soundboy, I love you even more since you added the "meanie" part.

Scy · 1 year ago

lol Awesome!

mirth · 1 year ago

OT

Hey jeff, knock it off with the "meanie" stuff. Dat not true 'bout you. ;)

(Altho I have to admit a yearly re-enactment of the Mountain Meadow Massacre is less than nice. Good job!)

Gary SF · 1 year ago

Hey, Mountain Meadows Massacre - The Musical would be great.

How about this as an opener (apologies to Mel Brooks):

Springtime for Joseph Smith and Mormons

Mormons were having trouble
What a sad, sad story
Needed a new leader to restore
Its former glory
Where, oh, where was he?
Where could that man be?
We looked around and then we found
The man for you and me
And now it's...
Springtime for Joseph Smith and Mormons!
Utah is happy and gay!
We're marching to a faster pace
Look out, here comes the master race!
Springtime for Joseph Smith and Mormons
Wife-land a fine land once more!
Springtime for Joseph Smith and Mormons
Watch out, gays everwhere!
We're going on tour! Joeseph Smith and Mormons!

Don't be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the Mormon party!
. . .

ProgressiveTroll · 1 year ago

All this backlash is marvelous! Thank God for the internet. People are starting to find out the hard way that their actions have consequences and people know what they are up to. Thank God for the series of tubes!

Michael in Venice, CA · 1 year ago

When Raddon made his so-called private contribution, he certainly knew it was a matter of public record. He said in his resignation statement that he believes in civil rights for all groups - huh?? I am one of those 18000 couples that he donated to do away with at the behest of his church, and Condon gives HIM all the sympathy?? What about those of us with our marriages on the line, our rights revoked?? What is WRONG with Bill Condon? Scott Raddon chose to resign of his own free will, no one fired him - and Condon needs to quit appeasing the these bigots. What a disappointment.

Scy · 1 year ago

Good. Go hang out with some bigots. Maybe invest in some "heterosexual only" and "homosexual only" water fountains.

FrankProbst · 1 year ago

From the link:
In a statement, Raddon said, "I have always held the belief that all people, no matter race, religion or sexual orientation, are entitled to equal rights. As many know, I consider myself a devout and faithful Mormon. I prefer to keep the details around my contribution through my church a private matter. But I am profoundly sorry for the negative attention that my actions have drawn to Film Independent and for the hurt and pain that is being experienced in the GLBT [gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender] community."
-----
His statement just seems bizarre to me. It's a mix of contradictions. He believes in equal rights, but he helped fund an anti-equality measure. And then there's his statement that, "I prefer to keep the details around my contribution through my church a private matter." Um, huh? What's the "through my church" part about? He donated to a pro-Prop 8 group. Is he saying that he thought he was funneling the money to his church? I don't get this.

Dwayne Decker · 1 year ago

Marjorie Christofferson of El Coyote used the same excuse when she got caught. Hm... Maybe the church was collecting money for the Yes on 8 campaign.

mamazboy · 1 year ago

Maybe Richard and Marjorie are using talking points supplied by the Mormon church. They are not sorry for what they did; they're sorry they got nailed.

Webster · 1 year ago

Maybe someone ought to send Condon a ticket to Milk. I find it hard to believe he could really be that stupid.

ObamaLover · 1 year ago

He lost his job for being a bigot. If it was David Duke who lost his job something tells me Condon wouldn't be so upset about it.

Scy · 1 year ago

Well said

Bill T. · 1 year ago

Re Bill Condon: No self-respecting gay person would have hired Eddie Murphy -- he of "faggot" routines and AIDS jokes in the 1980s -- for anything. Condon did (for "Dreamgirls"). Many years afterwards, Murphy apologized, but what he did, at the time, was just absolutely horrendous. How many suicides did Eddie Murphy contribute to?

Condon's lack of self-respect is unfortunate.

dula · 1 year ago

Yeah, I'm sure his next project will involve Eminem (or Enema as I like to call her)

Ben Dover · 1 year ago

But I am profoundly sorry for the negative attention that my actions have drawn to Film Independent and for the hurt and pain that is being experienced in the GLBT [gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender] community." - Raddon

And yet he's not so sorry about his actions on behalf of the Mormon Cult that he would resign from the Cult. The POS is only sorry his ass got caught. I hope Raddon never has a moments peace.

Jay · 1 year ago

Is Bill Condon a self-loathing gay man? What the hell is wrong with him?

So one guy lost his job? Big freaking deal! He shouldn't have spent his money on bigotry, asshole.

cowboyneok · 1 year ago

Maybe Bill Condon should explain to the kids of gay couples why they aren't equally protected like the kids whose parent's happen to be straight, since he seems to be the "go to" guy for all things related to gay civil rights? Explain to those kids why their parents don't get the same rights and protections, and have to pay higher taxes. I'm sick to death of apologist gays. Condon and "Uncle Tom" certainly do think alike. I know, if Condon were alive in the 1930's, he would have been one of those "Jews for Hitler" apologists!

Dwayne Decker · 1 year ago

Or engaged to Judy Garland.

Troy Smythe · 1 year ago

I'm thinking I'll start skipping Condon's projects, too.

Nakhone · 1 year ago

Good point. Count me in. Maybe Condon should propose to get civil unionized or domestic partnershipized (?) to Shimmin from Cinemark. They'd make a lovely gay Uncle Toms.

RememberHistory · 1 year ago

There seem to be a pattern of treatment here...

Jews in Hollywood in the 1930's
McCarthy's "communists" in Hollywood in the 1950's
Mormons in Hollywood in 2008

This is the America that just elected Obama????

dula · 1 year ago

You forgot: Gays in Hollywood in 2008

Dwayne Decker · 1 year ago

More like gays in Hollywood 1906-2008. Where are the openly gay leading men? All the good gay roles end up going to straight actors. And it wasn't that long ago that Tom Cruise filed a $100 million lawsuit over a gay rumor because, according to Cruise, if people thought he was gay it would ruin his career.

dula · 1 year ago

Poor Tom...I hear he's slated to play the life story of Barbara Stanwyck.

Gary SF · 1 year ago

Uh, it was the Mormons that came after the gays and lesbians. That we are fighting back using the same constitutional rights in analogous to Hollywood fighting back against McCarthy.

Joseph Smith · 1 year ago

But unlike Jews and Commies (and Jewish Commies), Mormons are douchebags.

ChrisSF · 12 months ago

Jews and Socialists weren't trying to use the political process to take constitutional rights away from other people. Also, no one is blacklisting anyone. No one has been fired. But people's political contributions are public information for a very good reason -- everyone has the right to refuse to do business with people whose political activities are harmful to them.

dula · 1 year ago

Let's see how the film community would react if we passed a Prop that prevented Jews from marrying due to the fact they aren't Christian and are gonna burn in hell unless they convert. They are a heathen, Jesus killing community who shouldn't have the right to breed another generation of Jesus killers.

dula · 1 year ago

I'm sure Bill Condon wouldn't mind because it's simply my religious views and has nothing to do with Civil Rights.

Dwayne Decker · 1 year ago

Mel, are you off the wagon again?

Bill T. · 1 year ago

Religious views motivated the men who murdered 3,000 people on 9/11. I have no problem with religious views as long as they don't hurt people. However, when religious views hurt people, as happened on 9/11, and as happened with Prop. 8, any decent person has to act.

Prop. 8's backers not only want to prevent any more loving same-sex couples from getting married, but also they want to annul the marriages of 18,000 same-sex couples who got married in California this year. This is devastating to thousands of real people, and outrageous.

If a person who gave $1,500 to Yes on 8 finds himself a liability to his employer, it's a case of needing to lie in the bed you made yourself.

Indigo · 1 year ago

"Privately held beliefs"? I'm sorry but when privately held beliefs turn into contributions to a cause calculated to harm others, they're not private anymore This is a social issue involving anti-gay terrorism.

fredndallas · 1 year ago

John has brilliantly captured the essence and intensity of the issue with his characterization:

"When you use the power of the state to rip away my civil rights, and force me to live by your "values," you are no longer practicing your religion. You're practicing politics. And in politics, we have the right - nay, the duty - to fight back."

Granted, laws are made with a "moral" basis. Religion claims that "morality" flows from its font. Thus laws flow from religion? Perhaps.

But as John's characterization emphasizes, laws also are POLITICAL. In the sense that they are the result of a POLITICAL PROCESS born of a political system, grounded in constitutions.

Prop 8 was brought into play as a political attack against decided law which reinforced long standing rights conveyed to citizens in the constitution.

Funding/endorsing that attack is clearly politics. Personal religion is perhaps choosing in your own private heart not to consider same sex marriages with the same validity as hetero sex marriages. Or choosing to view Roman Catholics differently than fellow Mormons.

Enjoy your personal religion without interference from me, as is your constitutional right. We will enjoy marrying the person we love, as is our constitutional right.

Use political and other means to attack us if you choose. But don't dare question our doing the same in defense. I have very little question which of us will win in the end.

And neither do you.

Butch1 · 1 year ago

" . . .When you use the power of the state to rip away my civil rights, and force me to live by your "values," you are no longer practicing your religion. You're practicing politics. And in politics, we have the right - nay, the duty - to fight back." - John Aravosis

This has to be the quote of the day for me. Well said and thanks.

clytemnestra · 1 year ago

He didn't lose his job .. he chose to leave .. he wasn't fired and the PropH8 people are trying to make it seem like he was fired over it.

If it's a privately held belief, hold it in private. Fact is if he hadn't have donated so much no one would have found out... and what outrage and boycotts are only okay when right wingers do it? Weren't they boycotting Disneyland at one time because under Eisner homosexual partnerships were recognized?

Hypocrites one and all.

HillbillyTN · 1 year ago

Read:
Los Angeles Film Festival…Richard Raddon improper behaviour. LA Times conflict of Interest! Blogger disdain. Pass on it…

June 11, 2008 by julianayrs

http://julian1st.wordpress.com/2008/06/11/los-a...

SkippyFlipjack · 1 year ago

I want to believe that writer's poor view of Mr. Raddon but it's a little hard when their piece starts out with them being shocked that a film festival denied them a press credential -- and, heaven forfend, a "lowly Public Relations person" delivered the news! oh, the indignity! and he'd even given the festival good reviews in the past!

Julian · 1 year ago

Heh SkippyFlipjack:

Obviously, you can't read and comprehend English.
Otherwise, the issues would have been more apparent to you.
Raddon's conduct was strange and un-called for.
Notwithstanding, he already promised me the press credentials, another thing you overlooked.
I expect this kind of stupid remark on a site where a person like you hides behind an anonymous moniker.
Cowards like you make me laugh.
Why don't you show your face and give your true identity.
Then maybe we'll really know what your agenda is.
Stupid people like you make the Internet a joke.
Take a hike, bozo!
Julian

SkippyFlipjack · 1 year ago

LOL

nice to meet you, Julian. :)

lauram · 1 year ago

t's really not that complicated: don't believe in gay marriage? don't have one. But when you work to prevent others from having one, that is politics and political actions and public speech are open to repercussions.

Aman-About-Town.com · 1 year ago

Aaargh! Condon is so frustrating I can't stand it! As you said, it was not because of his "privately held beliefs." Does he just not get that!? What a freaking apologist! How do people get so wrong-headed that they concede that their "lifestyle" is subject to the approval of others.

Mark in Florida · 1 year ago

Because like so many gay people, we have extremely low self esteme and secretly many of us do not feel we actually deserve the same treatment as every other American. It is deep seated, so deep that most gay 'apoligists' simply don't get it. It's like the gay republican. They can talk about republican values all day long as trumping personal civil rights, but when you peel away the onion, at the center is the seed of self loathing.

They will never admit this, but you don't have to be a certified therapist to see it.

Bill T. · 1 year ago

I agree, emphatically, with Mark in Florida.

Note that there are few young gay apologists. I'm not young myself; and from my own experience I understand the deeply-conditioned self-loathing and shame.

We are way overdue to throw that sh*t off, though.

No more.

sigh · 1 year ago

Hey John -- Reality check for a straight guy who might be a tad clueless, if you don't mind

I am not quite shocked, but extremely surprised that folks who make their living in industries which are well-known as employing large numbers of gay people are donating money to subjugate their own employees and customers.

Should I have seen this coming? Am I a naive pollyanna to think that -- esp in the CA entertainment and restaurant businesses -- there would be more acceptance? I mean, I can kind of understand how someone who (they thinkl) has never even seen a gay man or lesbian donating $$, but someone who every day works with them? WTF?? This makes me wonder what other major facets of the world I can't see. Depressing.

RainbowPhoenix · 1 year ago

You'd be suprised how stupid and hateful people can be. But as long as you use situations like this to learn, you won't be like them.

cowboyneok · 1 year ago

What is even more depressing is for the media to repeatedly ask a gay apologist, like Condom, his take on religious bigots wading into the political civil rights realm getting what they deserve. By using a gay apologist, it is a weak attempt by the media to legitimize unacceptable behavior. They could go to 99.9% of the LGBT community and they would agree Richard Raddon got exactly what he deserved, but they keep going back to the same source who "Boo Hoo's" over Raddon losing his "livelihood" due to his "religious beliefs." It would be like newspapers in the South running to an Uncle Tom to explain why Jim Crow laws should remain the law of the land.

Mark in Florida · 1 year ago

Exactly. Enough of the pussy footing around. I am tired of politics. We need to get people who speak for us in a way that personalizes the issue so the people that voted for this and donated to it feel so damned guilty and exposed, that they will simply stay out of the political arena in the future.

Currently, there is no one who has the balls to tell it like it is.

I guess we deserved to be raped if we wear short skirts.....that's about it folks.

Bill T. · 1 year ago

Melissa Etheridge has been telling it like it is.

Mark in Florida · 1 year ago

Yeah, I don't get it either. Once again, people need to take a civics course. This was not voting on a bridge project, or some other thing...this was so highly personal. To strip rights from Americans. Pretty shocking. People like Raddon simply thought of this as being against a 'bridge project' and did not see this as actually affecting everyday Americans. Pretty obtuse of someone in the biz, that really should have known where his bread was buttered.

cowboyneok · 1 year ago

The movie "MILK" is going to be appearing in Cinemark Theaters. What would Harvey Milk do? Boycott? Picket the theaters? Raise Hell?

Answer: ALL OF THE ABOVE

Sam · 1 year ago

The church can't force you to right a check. He made a mistake and he's been outed. Full disclosure is a great thing....no one who donated to No on 8 has any reason to be embarrassed, but it seems the Yes on Prop 8 people realize this is something to be ashamed of...finally. Way to go outers. Keep it up

mamazboy · 1 year ago

Fuck Bill Condon and his concern-trolling about this asshole who rightly got dumped. I'm equally sick of the religious right and other moralistic, judgmental homophobes and their enablers like Condon who express more concern for these oppressors than for their gay brothers and sisters who suffer daily from homophobia. Let them feel some of the pain they so cavalierly inflict!

Jeff In Boston · 1 year ago

Excellent, John! I hope the other bloggers who are apparently being swayed by the other side's arguments about the alleged unfairness of our side's tactics read your succinct summary and think twice before letting guilt pangs make them feel that we are somehow the bad guys in all of this.

Mark in Florida · 1 year ago

...exactly, Now I really truly understand how African Americans must have felt in the sixties when called 'upity', and wanting special rights.

John Aravosis · 1 year ago

Actually, that's an excellent point. I never really understood what people meant by "uppity" - I mean I know the word, but in context it never quite made sense. It does now. If you fight back you're obviously a bad person.

Mark in Florida · 1 year ago

Yes. And the KKK were upstanding family men who went to church on sunday. That did not make them good people. Far from it. Roads are paved w/ good intentions. I wonder when Christians will start living 'Christ like'. I don't see it. And sorry, but I will not give a bell ringer from the Salvation Army a dime either. Sure they do great work. But to actively fire 'suspected' gay people from their organization only hurts the people truly in need of the services they offer. Being the optimist I am, I find in increasingly difficult to be compassionate to people who are so indifferent to such a large segment of society such as ours. Humanity has far to go.

Mark in Florida · 1 year ago

Well said John. Kudos to you. I am sick of taking it. ...and it is like blaming the rape victim. Screw these people. I repeat.....This is not a religious issue. It is a civil rights issue. NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN MARRIED IN A CHURCH IN THE UNITED STATES.

They get their license from the state and then go to the cult of their choice to make themselves feel legitimate. Period.

Screw these people, I hope they all lose their jobs. What about the thousands of California familes now in termoil...that happen to be same sex couples?

VXX · 1 year ago

Always use the term "Civil marriage" - that should remind them.

Mark in Florida · 1 year ago

My letter to Mrs. Abramowitz, the Times writer of this one sided piece.

rachel.abramowitz@latimes.com

Dear Mrs. Abramowitz,

I felt your piece about Richard Raddon resigning because of his donating to prop eight was horribly one sided and too sympathetic to Mr. Raddon. What you fail to mention is the fact that no one ever in the history of the United States of America has EVER been married in a church. Ever. Which makes this a civil rights issue, NOT a religious issue as stated by Mr. Raddon. Mr. Raddon made his choice, and that gives us the right, and choice to expose these hypocrites. There was no mention in your article of the 40 thousand married gay people who's families are now in turmoil because of Mr. Raddon's decision.

Mr. Raddon will survive. Frankly he can flip burgers at McDonald's for all I care. Your article is tantamount to blaming the rape victim for the crime. Think about it.

These people should all be exposed for their hatred and put out of business. And for the record, I am not some radical angry victimized person. Prop eight and the Mormons have woken up the sleeping giant of everyday mild mannered Americans like myself that happen to be gay. This is not over, and we will never forget and rest until the Mormon's pay taxes, and anyone who donated is exposed. After all it is public record, and they made their choice.

SkippyFlipjack · 1 year ago

"No one ever in the history of the United States of America has EVER been married in a church." It's probably because I'm still a little sleepy, but I don't get this. Because you fill out the license at city hall?

Mark in Florida · 1 year ago

By the power invested in me from the state of............

Church is irrelevent. No one has legally been married in a church in this country. The church does not, has not ever issued a marriage license.

SkippyFlipjack · 1 year ago

Well, right, but you're not going to find many people who see it that way. You get married when you say "I do". My college diploma was signed in some administrative building somewhere but I "graduated" when I walked across the stage. You can even ask my friends who were married in the last few months (while it was legal) where they got married and they'll tell you where they held the ceremony, not where they picked up their license. It's important to get people to understand that marriage itself is a civil institution and not a religious one, but there are more convincing ways to get that across.

RitornaVincitor · 1 year ago

I think we should all be more understanding of why Mormons feel themselves to be the victims of Prop 8. They didn't start it. They weren't attacking anyone. They were just defending traditional marriage from the gay attack. Gay people getting married would of course be an attack on marriage, because we're... well..... gay. So by getting married we make their marriages mean less. I mean, if people like us can get married, then anyone can. It's not like they don't respect gay people. It's just that by our participation in the institution of marriage we cheapen it. And now we're attacking the Mormons again by calling them martyrs just because they point out that we're picking on them.

Martyrdom is a very important weapon, especially against laughter. We should never hold it against the Mormons. After all, they have a lot to defend against. Gold tablets.... Jesus preaching to the Indians.... polygamy... sacred underwear.... angels named Moroni..... What else are you to do when people laugh at your religious beliefs? You can only put on your best martyr expression, hold your head high, and point out how others have always persecuted you.

And who are we to laugh? Do we not believe that a 2,000-year-old Jesus is floating up there in the clouds somewhere with an old man and a bird? Yes we do. So I say that there is no way our boycotting Mormons can do anything but hurt us. They will say we are persecuting them, and we will only look bad. Now, if the Mormons had started it.... if the Mormons had, say, been secretly plotting for years to make themselves look more mainstream by exploiting traditional Christian hatred toward gays among other faiths.... if the Mormons were the largest contributors to the anti-gay marriage crusade.... if the Mormons had gone after gay people and taken away their rights.... then I'd say they didn't have a leg to stand on and deserved all the derision and scorn that was coming at them. I'd say they shot themselves in the foot big time. But no. THEY are the victims here. Let's try to keep that in mind.

Mark in Florida · 1 year ago

I understand your point. That is why we need to keep it to politics, and the fact that as a group they blurred tne lines of church and state. This is a civil rights issue, not a religious issue. We have to take care not to critizise their religion, it's not about that. If we make that clear, then the martyr thing will not ring true. So far all of the protests seem to be on point with this. When we attack their beliefs, we lose, but if we stick to the real issue, then we will prevail.

RitornaVincitor · 1 year ago

Oh, but gay people are not criticizing their religion. We are just laughing at how ridiculous Mormonism is. We can't help it that God gave us a flawless sense of humor.

Mark in Florida · 1 year ago

So true. If you don't laugh, you cry.

John Aravosis · 1 year ago

Actually, the Mormons' biggest fear is that we may talk about their beliefs, their values, and let America truly judge whether Mormons values really are better than our own.

Mark in Florida · 1 year ago

You are correct. I am eager to see the new Mormon south park movie, now in production. There will be wailing and nashing of teeth by these people as to how they are unfairly being persecuted. I can hardly wait. They can worship earth worms for all I care. They are protected by the constitution, and we are not. At least not equally.

Bill T. · 1 year ago

I think it's a stage musical, not a movie.

Mark in Florida · 1 year ago

Does anyone have Condon's email address?? Someone needs to ask him to stop speaking for us. Really....

Chrissy · 1 year ago

Both him and Elton John.

Bill T. · 1 year ago

Speaking of self-loathing... I debated on whether or not to even mention his name. This is a guy who denied being gay...then said he was "bisexual" ...and now he's full-on gay. It is perhaps not surprising that he's got some work to do yet on his self-respect.

Condon and John are arguably victims of the time in which they grew up. Growing up in, say, the 1950s, is almost like growing up in with Scientologist parents: You are helpless against the brainwashing. Notwithstanding their respective traumas, I will not be spending money on the projects of either of those two fellows.

Mark in Florida · 1 year ago

John: Keep trotting out these people. They all need to be exposed and 'feel the pressure' to resign. All of them. It is the only way to make people think twice about donating in the future. Really, is it worth losing your job over? Come on. I bet they wish they had simply bought that new flat screen TV, instead of donating hard earned money to a horrible cause that does not affect them. Well it affects them now!!! Pay the piper.....kick them to the curb.

One a week for the next four years. I have no problem with this....NONE.

Mark (not in Florida!) · 1 year ago

Those who donated to support Proposition 8 did not do so by accident. They chose to donate to support a movement to take away the rights of same-sex couples. That they now suffer consequences from their poor judgment is more than fair.

btinc · 1 year ago

I'm sorry, Raddon didn't lose his job and livelihood because of his "privately held religious beliefs." He made them his publicly held religious beliefs when he gave $1,500 to a group wanting to codify his "privately held religious beliefs" into law. Not one dollar of my hard-earned income is going to go to an organization headed by someone who uses his salary to aid in taking away my constitutional rights to get married. Freedom of speech doesn't include protection from the reaction to that speech.

horus · 1 year ago

are you 'personally saddened', Bill? well i'm downright angry, that you feel sorry for someone who gave money to a campaign that sought to, and succeeded in removing a basic right i previously enjoyed.

jerry · 1 year ago

The process ought not have made it so easy to vote against civil rights.