The GOP adding more tax breaks to big business is not helping.
fostert
· 1 year ago
Yeah, but it's not really hurting, either. Most large companies don't even pay taxes. Half of zero is still zero. Why does it even matter?
SCLiberal
· 1 year ago
"...and that means business is at a standstill until the direction is clear." Does that mean corporations won't be outsourcing any jobs for the moment?
reedwood
· 1 year ago
"annualized rate for those overnight loans spiked by more than four percentage points, to 6.9 percent, its highest level ever" -- since the rate's been tracked in 2001!
Economist Dean Baker (Beat The Press): "That sounds really bad -- the highest overnight borrowing cost in history. Maybe it would have been helpful to tell readers that this data has only been compiled since 2001, a period of unusually low interest rates.
If we want a longer time frame, we can look at the history for the three month interbank rate. Bloomberg reports that the three month London Interbank rate (LIBOR) closed at 4.05 percent on Tuesday. In the same chart, we can find that it was 5.23 percent a year ago.
Those interested in a little more history can find that the LIBOR rate was over 8.0 percent for most of 1990 and actually topped 9.0 percent on some days in September of 1989. "
lucky hussein
· 1 year ago
wow, thanks...
JMOHR
· 1 year ago
Let the system crash. There are other ways to restore confidence in they system and far better ways than by rewarding the bastards that screwed up the system and have bought so many congressmen. Notice the lack of economists that have actually been consulted on the appropriate manner in which to carry out a bailout. We have seen threats and fear all too often from the Republicans and their financial industry supporters. Take more time and correct the system in an appropriate manner. I am sick and tired of the bum's rush.
red_dwarf
· 1 year ago
I agree. No one seems to be talking about this "disaster" striking just weeks before the 2008 election. Over 1 trillion dollars - no questions asked - Coincidence?
If you believe that I have a condo in Ohio I'm trying to get rid of - u might be interested. The whole fu(king thing is insane (imo).
JMOHR
· 1 year ago
Where in Ohio? I am watching my retirement business go under in one of the five fastest dying cities in the United States. When they come for my home, I may need the condo.
lucky hussein
· 1 year ago
Agree somewhat, I think the reps should stick to their guns on reform, taxing equity transactions, actual real pay compensation limits, us gov't getting equity, etc... all the stuff kucinich, krugman and others are talking about. If we get that stuff, then please pass it asap.
SCLiberal
· 1 year ago
Some people need to reread the story of the boy who cried "wolf!" I agree with you, JMOHR. Didn't FDR take three months to assess the situation he inherited?
lucky hussein
· 1 year ago
I believe they got most of the major things done in his first 100 days. So, 3 months to assess and push through legislation.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
Do not let is crash for crash's sake. Consider plans that will work. It appears the hard sell on the turd Paulson dropped is still on. They are greasing this pig up with more lipstick than I have ever seen and folks simply do not want this plan. It is not a categorical imperative. Put a sword in it and kill it already. Come up with something new and then people will listen. Paulson's bailout plan will not and cannot solve the problem.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
LIBOR spiked because it was the end of the quarter. It is back down in the 3.5% range today.
Banks still do not trust each other.
watou
· 1 year ago
Geography lessons from Dan Quayle and Sarah Palin:
My fear is that this will fail in the House and Thursday/Friday will see a 1000 point drop. You may not feel the pain then if you don't have skin in that game, but you feel it when there's no working ATMs around by the end of next week.
Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas
· 1 year ago
ATMs not working next week. Good. Maybe this will wake up Billy Bob White Trash to stop voting for Jesus lovin' Republicans who keep fucking the country over and over. I rarely have any cash and only use a debit card now. Hopefully it will work fine in a week or so for groceries and what little gasoline we need. I see this as all very good. The nation won't do a thing until there is serious crisis.
GeorgeSalt
· 1 year ago
"...the Libor rate is jumping as banks hunker down and hoard cash."
And yet, the banks are still paying paltry rates on CDs. If banks were really hard up for cash they would be paying a premium for cash deposits. They aren't.
nsr
· 1 year ago
Top ten reasons to support the buyout bill 10. It's a rescue bill, damn it! 9. Paulson knows what he's doing. 8. Senate democrats have a good record of standing up to Bush. 7. We'll get all the bad debt out of the system with one simple vote. 6. What do you want, a mushroom cloud over Main Street? 5. the AIG, Bear Sterns and Fannie/Freddie bailouts were good practice. 4. Trickle-down economics is a proven fact. 3. The House Democrats that voted against it are really Republicans. 2. If it doesn't work, there's plenty more money where this came from. and the number one reason: 1. This time, Bush's touch won't turn the whole thing to crap.
lucky hussein
· 1 year ago
agree on #5 ...
Webster
· 1 year ago
Throw a pall of "Fear! Fear! Fear! Do it NOW!" over it all and you've got it nailed.
Griffon
· 1 year ago
$700 BILLION? “It’s not based on any particular data point,” a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. “We just wanted to choose a really large number.”
That quote alone tells me we're being held hostage. This alleged 'bailout' is the mother of all 'golden parachutes' for the republican party. "Fire, Fear, Y2K!!"
AZ_Birdlady
· 1 year ago
While the lending system is "locked up", from what I've heard the banks are not lending just to force the bailout. Just like the oil companies held tankers off the coast after Katrina to create a shortage and raise oil prices.
Webster
· 1 year ago
Besides which, the current ("official" [HA!]) 6.1% of us who are out of work would enjoy a little company out here. We can all go to Washington and set up a new "McBushville" that will put the old Hooverville to shame.
sukabi1
· 1 year ago
Chris, Roubini, who's been right about a bunch of this has a couple of suggestions -- as well as a warning about what's likely to come / or is presently occurring, wrt single accounts over the $100,000K insured amount...
Ben Dover
· 1 year ago
Not to be snide and all that shit but, I will be against ANY bailout as long as Bush and his minions remain at large. I am completely against allowing the very fucking ones that put us in this mess to walk free while carrying around a $700 billion check (and you KNOW it will wind up being less that 1/25th of what will actually be "necessary" to save us all from depression). I've worked hard all my life. When BushCo stole office I saw what was coming. I worked even harder and paid off the house. Paid off the vehicles. Stocked up of dry goods and non perishables. Put every available penny into savings ( I did withdraw 9 months of living expenses cash as a just-in-case). Now, I feel absolutely NO sympathy for the ones that brought this about. The only thing I would ask would be: ARREST CHENEY FIRST because he's the one that kept saying, "Reagan taught us that deficits don't matter"! I now get off my soap box and await flaming and flogging.
Ben Dover
· 1 year ago
And yes, I know that the deficit isn't exactly what we're talking about here and now, I'm just sayin'...
dances_with_beagles
· 1 year ago
But, but, they are trying to cap golden parachutes to punish executives! That'll teach 'em!. How about an alternative: Take $100 million out of the looting, and allocate it to the Dept. of Homeland Security, SEC, FBI, to hire prosecution teams to investigate the crimes that have been committted, the worst being treason. If you are a senior officer of any institution involved, you willl be investigated and prosecuted. Make that part of the bill. Confiscate all assets of senior officers if convicted. Set strict time deadlines for the investigation and prosecutions.
ah hell. I've heard all the dire warnings and you know what, even if they are all true and even worse than imagined, let it fail. It's a corrupt, immoral system from the core. From the ashes we can build another day (Moody Blues).
Ben Dover
· 1 year ago
I agree. A clean start IMHO is usually the best start.
melissap
· 1 year ago
Nobody is debating whether or not the credit markets are tightening. the debate is on the solution. Bailout bunnies want to throw more carrots at the problem. Yummy. The banks will eat that up. Once they've got their's - do you think they'll want to start sharing again? Problem is not liquidity. Problem is solvency. The sooner we hit bottom, the sooner we can start swimming back up. Here's an interesting website www.shadowstats.com. Thing is the curtain has been pulled back - and there's nothing there.
Ben Dover
· 1 year ago
I agree. Sometimes it is best to just hit the "reset" button and take it from there. The fall will be incredibly hard now, but later it will be much more difficult (in my unlearned opinion) and much more dangerous. Let the chips fall where they may. Besides, this should be the next president's issue to solve. Not these people that started it. Peace.
melissap
· 1 year ago
I agree Ben Dover. Even if, at this late date, Bush is finally right about something - why give this power to the people who got us in this mess in the first place. I talked with both my Senator's offices today and suggested they submit a bill designed entirely to bailout Mainstreet - completely bypassing Wallstreet. There is a lot more going on with this bailout than meets the eye. Lots of sneaky details in there aka the Patriot Act.
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
What is going on with this bailout/rescue bill? I am hearing the Senate has added a ton of "sweetners" to get this to pass.
Asterix
· 1 year ago
It'd be one thing if the bailout was going to be used to save the hides of some of our domestic entities. But it's not--it's the Bushies' new form of foreign aid.
Credit markets are locked up because the banks are expecting a bailout and waiting for that. Once it's clear that they won't be given free money they'll start to deal with their problems and hopefully being lending again. But leading them to think that others are going to come to their rescue is the worst possible thing that could be done, and is the direct and immediate cause of these problems. No bailout. Let them fall. The sooner the better. The idea that we can't "weather" this crisis is totally wrong. Of course we can. But we need to get to it. Ordinary Americans have been "weathering" it since the Clinton-Bush regime began. We're used to it, and it won't change much for us. Anyway, if Chris or anyone else wants to bail them out then they're free to donate to any banks they wish. But taxpayer money is certainly not necessary. The government should focus on prosecuting those who broke the law. That would help fix things and allow us to begin rebuilding. Only those who have investments in the corporates want this bailout, and it's solely to protect their own asses. It has nothing to do with the good of the overall economy.
The most important thing is to vote third party or abstain. And make sure that all those who voted for the bailout don't get reelected.
naschkatzehussein
· 1 year ago
Peter DeFazio and some progressives are coming up with a version. So are House Republicans and George Soros. That's as far as I know--there may be others--so I don't look for a quick resolution.
naschkatzehussein
· 1 year ago
That's House Republicans and George Soros separately of course.
DougStamate
· 1 year ago
The Senate is apparently putting things into the bill that will have a very good chance of being sunk, by the Democrats, this time in the House. The only changes that should be made would be to strengthen the transparency of the transactions and make the administrator responsible to Congress and not the executive. If Reid and Pelosi aren't careful they'll end up with a bill that angers Democratic voters by rewarding Wall Street, won't have enough oversight in it to make that risk worthwhile and will be supported by the Republicans so they can run as "patriotic" during the campaign. "October Surprise" anyyone?
All Comments
Economist Dean Baker (Beat The Press):
"That sounds really bad -- the highest overnight borrowing cost in history. Maybe it would have been helpful to tell readers that this data has only been compiled since 2001, a period of unusually low interest rates.
If we want a longer time frame, we can look at the history for the three month interbank rate. Bloomberg reports that the three month London Interbank rate (LIBOR) closed at 4.05 percent on Tuesday. In the same chart, we can find that it was 5.23 percent a year ago.
Those interested in a little more history can find that the LIBOR rate was over 8.0 percent for most of 1990 and actually topped 9.0 percent on some days in September of 1989. "
If you believe that I have a condo in Ohio I'm trying to get rid of - u might be interested. The whole fu(king thing is insane (imo).
Banks still do not trust each other.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN1sbt-JQ64
And yet, the banks are still paying paltry rates on CDs. If banks were really hard up for cash they would be paying a premium for cash deposits. They aren't.
10. It's a rescue bill, damn it!
9. Paulson knows what he's doing.
8. Senate democrats have a good record of standing up to Bush.
7. We'll get all the bad debt out of the system with one simple vote.
6. What do you want, a mushroom cloud over Main Street?
5. the AIG, Bear Sterns and Fannie/Freddie bailouts were good practice.
4. Trickle-down economics is a proven fact.
3. The House Democrats that voted against it are really Republicans.
2. If it doesn't work, there's plenty more money where this came from.
and the number one reason:
1. This time, Bush's touch won't turn the whole thing to crap.
That quote alone tells me we're being held hostage. This alleged 'bailout' is the mother of all 'golden parachutes' for the republican party. "Fire, Fear, Y2K!!"
I am completely against allowing the very fucking ones that put us in this mess to walk free while carrying around a $700 billion check (and you KNOW it will wind up being less that 1/25th of what will actually be "necessary" to save us all from depression).
I've worked hard all my life. When BushCo stole office I saw what was coming. I worked even harder and paid off the house. Paid off the vehicles. Stocked up of dry goods and non perishables. Put every available penny into savings ( I did withdraw 9 months of living expenses cash as a just-in-case). Now, I feel absolutely NO sympathy for the ones that brought this about.
The only thing I would ask would be: ARREST CHENEY FIRST because he's the one that kept saying, "Reagan taught us that deficits don't matter"!
I now get off my soap box and await flaming and flogging.
ah hell. I've heard all the dire warnings and you know what, even if they are all true and even worse than imagined, let it fail. It's a corrupt, immoral system from the core. From the ashes we can build another day (Moody Blues).
Let the chips fall where they may.
Besides, this should be the next president's issue to solve. Not these people that started it.
Peace.
Go read Mish on the subject of foreign bailouts
All your stuff are belong to us!
The most important thing is to vote third party or abstain. And make sure that all those who voted for the bailout don't get reelected.
If Reid and Pelosi aren't careful they'll end up with a bill that angers Democratic voters by rewarding Wall Street, won't have enough oversight in it to make that risk worthwhile and will be supported by the Republicans so they can run as "patriotic" during the campaign.
"October Surprise" anyyone?