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Let them sell.....we don't need to buy into this RUSE...
My coworker just told me I have nothing to worry about unless I'm planning on borrowing money. I just said "OK". I'm just not going to bother making the effort to educate these McCainiacs around here.
Hartman is talking about how Hoover did the same thing that's going on in Washington now and it FAILED.....
Fuck them, fuck them, god i hate rethugs. Here's our October surprise.
I don't like the fact that the Dems took the lead in championing this, but let's be pragmatic for a second. Whatever populist victory this represents, we very well may be cheering ourselves right into a full fledge failure of our entire economic system.
There are many toxic elements to the revised and revamped bill, according to The Hill reporters J. Taylor Rushing and Michael O'Brien, and those are below the line.
_____________________________________
- The $700 billion total would be broken into stages, with an immediate $250 billion made available to Wall Street, followed by an additional $100 billion released anytime at the request of the president, followed by a remaining $350 billion made available by Congress.
- Congress could disapprove the last $350 billion, but only through a disapproval resolution that would be subject to a presidential veto. There is no timetable for the remaining $350 billion, meaning that the entire $700 billion could be made available quickly and simultaneously.
- House Republicans' idea for an insurance pool to protect mortgage-backed securities = expanded to include other troubled assets - and funded by premiums on financial institutions is in the plan, supervised by Treasury officials who will set premiums. The program would be voluntary for companies.
- Taxpayer equity in the companies, intended to let taxpayers recover their investment as the companies recover.
- Executive pay limits intended to prevent "golden parachute" scenarios for the executives of failed companies.
- An oversight board would be established, with seats for the Treasury Department secretary, Securities and Exchange Commission chairman, Commerce Department secretary and Federal Reserve chairman.
- Bankruptcy provisions for which Democrats had fought hard are not in the plan. Known as "cram-downs," the provisions would have allowed bankruptcy judges authority to revise the terms of mortgages. (http://www.truthout.org/092808B)
now, will Bush declare an "economic crisis" and declare martial law and suspend the elections?
one wonders.
Maybe that will wake people the F*CK up!
I think Pakistan was the trial balloon to see whether it could be carried out...
OIL has been trading about $7 bucks LOWER most of the day....
http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2008093928/...
The Republicans set up a trap, and it blew up in their face IMHO.
I think it's a trap as well.....
Why the HELL can't the Dem's see it for what it is????
This will be HUNG around their necks since Pelosi and Reid seem more than happy to take Ownership of it...
Makes me SICK!!
The hedge funds are not required to say what they are holding, so nobody knows exactly how much of this bad paper is out there. What does $700 do but get the economy through till Bush leaves office? It's a systemic failure of the economic system as a whole, this bill would just add to the hyper-inflation.
Are the republiCONs against the bill simply because there are no "golden parachutes".
Or is it also because the bill requires certain kind of compliance from the corporations.
I personally am against the bill period since it puts the majority of the burden on the Middle Class.
How about the CEOs and other executives giving back their BONUSES from the last 3 years and help them rebuild they companies they corrupted?
As far as I'm concerned the CEOs can start to rebuild these corporations by breaking big rocks into little rocks.
no wait.. 641 now.
The guy is laughing
He has a website and some youtube videos on economics...has written books.
I've heard him on Hartman before...it was just so funny listening to him Laughing about bailing out BORROWERS and not bailing out LENDERS.
http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/261
A short rough primer on leveraging and derivatives
[...]
As for derivatives, pertinent to this discussion, we are talking about two types. The first we have already mentioned. These are the mortgage backed securities. They are not the mortgages themselves but a financial instrument (or to use the technical term “thingy”) based upon or derived from them. (Buyers of these are not interested in the underlying asset but in the cash flow from it, i.e. the mortgage payments.) These can themselves be further sliced and diced into further generations of derivatives. For example, one that is based on 50% of this derivative plus 30% of that one and a final 20% of a third. And so on and so on. All this was to dilute and spread risk or moral hazard, but it also had the effect of putting vast distance between the mortgage title and the holders of the derivatives based on that mortgage. This raises two issues. First, it may be difficult to impossible to establish who is the ultimate holder of the last derivative in a chain of derivatives going back to the original mortgage backed security. Second, it is unclear that anyone in the derivative chain actually has a claim on the mortgage title.
The second kind of derivative is the swap. This was a kind of insurance policy in the event that some mortgages declined in value. This derivative basically said if you pay me a certain fixed amount say every 6 months I will make good on any difference between what you initially paid for your mortgage backed security and what it is worth when you come see me. When the housing market was going up, this amounted to essentially free money for the issuers of this kind of derivative. They could sell it as extra insurance to conservative institutions secure in the knowledge that the housing market would rise forever. Except of course it didn’t. The original idea was that if a package of mortgages or tranch loss value because of a high rate of defaults, the swaps or insurance buyer could demand a settlement from the swaps issuer to make up for the loss of revenue. Now on the upside of the bubble, default rates were low. Homes that went into default could be resold at even higher prices so there was no downside. However, when the bubble burst, default rates went up and issuers of these derivatives didn’t face payouts on one or two of them but on a huge number of them.
09/29/08 14:09 EDT
http://money.aol.com/
NEW YORK -Fear swept across the financial markets Monday, sending the Dow Jones industrials down as much as 705 points, as traders feared the financial bailout package would not pass the House.
As the ...More
I scratch and claw for every nickel just to have *something* to put away and I can tell you, people in my situation are the ones getting stuck. The architects of this mess are still going to be relatively unscathed.
NO BAIL BEFORE
BUSH IN JAIL
If I make a sign, I will include "(out)" in small letters, but ya gotta go with the catchy rhyme!!
I hate to give House repubs any credit for they have failed so miserably on almost every important issue in the past, but those that voted against this bailout did well.
I warned all of you to buy gold and silver over the last year and most thought I was crazy. Whose laughing now?
Lets see McGramps...YOUR party and YOU caused this "Crisis"
DUH...
That makes HOW MANY TIES he Crash Landed?
what planet do these fuckwads live on? boehner, blunt, cantor... make me want to throw a rock at the tv.
Okay this is interesting. House Republican leaders are saying that they wish the bill had passed but too many of their members defected and voted against the bill. And that it's Nancy Pelosi's fault - get this - that House Republican leaders couldn't get House Republicans to vote for the bill. Catch that? The House Republican leadership wanted the bill to pass but their own members en masse defied the leadership and voted against the bill. So whose fault is that? Uh, how about Republican leaders in the House, the White House, and John McCain who promised to get the House Republican votes we needed.
John Boner and his punkassbitches are putting party first. I hope they take the hit as the market suffers in the coming days.
THe rethuglicans are the ones who want this to fail.
Congress threw this thing together without the slightest input from anyone who actually KNOWS how the economy works.... instead they relied solely on the very people who caused this mess.
No evidence, nor a scintilla of persuasive argument was presented to establish (a) what this bailout would accomplish and (b) how it was supposedly going to stop the economic tsunami that is going to happen.
Money = debt. It is created as debt. What has happened throughout the world is that debtors are MAXED OUT and no longer able to pay or to incur more debt, an event that is absolutely necessary for new money to be created. That is the unfortunate consequence of turning money over to the FED and Central Banks. Did you notice that the bailout legislation actually allows banks to keep ZERO reserves? Bet you didn't.
In the USA credit has been substituted for wages for far too long and people no longer can handle the debt they have much less take on new debt. It is THIS INABILITY TO HANDLE MORE DEBT that has caused the economy to collapse, in addition to all the rampant deregulation and speculating. The absence of controls on this obscene feeding frenzy has finally deteriorated the global economy into a stinking pile of bad debt.
If you think for a minute that encumbering taxpayers with another 700 billion dollar liability (a number that Paulson admits he pulled out of his ass) you are out of your fucking mind.
I read the bill from cover to cover and was dumbstruck by the absence of ANY mandatory terms. Everything in it is vague and discretionary or has some other free way out. No limits on golden parachutes, no relief for struggling taxpayers, everything for the greedy sons of bitches who caused this crisis to occur. The only real difference between this stinker of a bill and the one originally proposed by Paulson is that this one is LONGER.
The DOW's tumble in response to the vote was as predictable as a three year old's tantrum in response to being told "no". BELIEVE ME....had the bill passed the market probably wouldn't have tumbled... TODAY. But inevitably it will.
By defeating this horrible legislation and flat out giveaway congress staved off the complete devaluation of the dollar. I dunno about you John, but I dont want to see my kids lining up at the supermarket with bushels of worthless dollars just to buy a loaf of bread.
Short version: The economy is DOOMED regardless of what we throw at it now. All the bailout would have done is prolong the agony (at best) and hasten the devaluation of the dollar. Better to let the economy crash and burn now than foist this increasingly unworkable system on our grandkids.
Finally, the monetary system MUST CHANGE. The US government should issue currency not borrow it from the fed. Interest free currency issued by the sovereign governments of the world and not created as debt, would go a long way toward putting us back on the right track.
I'd put my money in one of my Banks!
I think Pelosi is right, get an overwhelming number of neo-cons onboard too.
The neo-cons never had any intention of being in support.
This really comes across as very grand political theater. Nothing more, nothing less.
Pelosi had said that Congress needed to pass the bill, even though it was an outgrowth of the "failed economic policies" of the last eight years.
"When was the last time someone asked you for $700 billion?" she asked. "It is a number that is staggering, but tells us only the costs of the Bush administration's failed economic policies — policies built on budgetary recklessness, on an anything goes mentality, with no regulation, no supervision, and no discipline in the system."
Oh wait...
RePigliCONS can't handle the TRUTH...
Babies...
Possibly if a new bill could be rewritten (unlike Rethug history) and passed from toilet stall to toilet stall under the splatter partition in the Rethug Caucus success might be had?
The ruling establishment's easy money machine is collapsing like a Minneapolis interstate bridge...
Boy, I guess Team McCain screwed-up by grabbing airtime earlier this morning for Mooselini and Grandpa McGrumpy, the self-proclaimed bail-out hero...
This *is* the Bush Administration we're talking about.
It they through the people were pissed off... wait till they hear from the small entrepreneurs in this country!
Rest assured this was a repub trap for dems that failed since the bailout bill likewise failed.
The dems called their bluff and George Bush is clearly established as the biggest fucking failure of a president in the history of the United States.
Barney Frank just handed rePIGS their ASSES during presser !!!!
We need Youtube of his comments up on the main page !!!!
Bravo for Barney !!!
Even Ralm looked good.... :P
Which is getting close to where it was before the bailout was announced last week.
It's just going back to where it was before Wall Streets Pipe dream was being created.
"July 28, 2006
HOUSE LEADERSHIP INVOKES “MARTIAL LAW,” FORCING MEMBERS TO VOTE ON KEY BILLS WITHOUT FULL KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT THEY ARE VOTING ON: MOVE REPRESENTS EROSION OF THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS
The House Rules Committee on Thursday afternoon reported a resolution that would provide martial law authority in relation to all of these bills.
...Under the martial law procedure, longstanding House rules that require at least one day between the unveiling of significant legislation and the House floor vote on that legislation — so that Members can learn what they are being asked to vote on — are swept away. Instead, under “martial law,” the Leadership can file legislation with tens or hundreds of pages of fine print and move immediately to debate and votes on it, before Members of Congress, the media, or the public have an opportunity to understand fully what provisions have been altered or inserted into the legislation behind closed doors. This is the procedure that the Leadership intends to use to muscle through important bills in the next two days....
What is “Martial Law”?
The House leadership is using a parliamentary gambit to evade a longstanding House rule that is supposed to ensure that this kind of obfuscation does not occur. That House rule (Rule XIII(6)(a)) provides that a resolution (called a rule) reported by the Rules Committee cannot be considered by the House on the same legislative day that the rule is reported (except by a two-thirds vote of the House). This is supposed to ensure that Members of the House and the public have at least one day to examine and analyze what is in legislation before they have to debate and vote on it.
To maneuver around this House rule and rush the three proposals discussed above to a vote before they have been fully examined, the Rules Committee reported a rule late Thursday afternoon (H.Res. 958) that would waive the application of Rule XIII(6)(a). Instead, it would allow the Rules Committee to wait until the last minute and not to report the rules governing the consideration of these bills or to release the text of the bills themselves until immediately before debate and votes on the bills, and on the rules governing their consideration, commences.
This extraordinary procedure is known as a “martial law” rule because it suspends the normal procedures and safeguards and allows the House Leadership to operate in a more authoritarian fashion. It enables the Leadership to seek to ram a bill or conference report through before the Members have the opportunity to fully understand what they are voting on."
http://www.cbpp.org/7-28-06bud-stmt.htm
My rep, Niki Tsongas, has lost my vote by voting yes.
Unless you have READ and UNDERSTOOD all 100+ pages of this thing, and the consequences if it had passed (e.g. ZERO bank reserves), you have let yourselves be frightened by the yelping heads on TV. The market tanked, as expected. It'll recover. Not today, but it will recover. The toxins have to be purged from the system and that is what is happening.
If you supported this, you have to ask yourself why it's OK to give (yes, give!) $700bn (which would likely end up to be triliions) to the very people that caused this mess, but we can't afford universal health care, decent education, our veterans, our infrastructure and industry and all that. The answer is always the same: "We can't afford it." We can't afford this bailout either.
And if you're losing money in your 401k/IRA, you are a lazy investor who can't be bothered to do your own homework. Anyone paying attention for the past year would have gotten completely out to cash/money mkt a long time ago.
All of the House of Representatives blew it. The Dems control the voting timetable, they shouldn't had the vote unless they had a lock solid majority of more than 218.
However what the Republicans did was so incredibly despicable. Their antics was so incredibly irresponsible, and periled the entire country. This has to be one of the most shameful things I've seen out of many shameful things from the Republicans in Congress.
I kind of feel of moving to Canada or Chile after this debacle...