McCain's praise of Ronald Reagan is wholly misplaced. To recap, during the Iran-Contra affair in the 1980s, hostages were not released because of Iran's fear of Reagan, as McCain suggested. In reality, Iran released them after Reagan administration officials infamously sold arms to the country, which were transfered to Ayatollah Khomeini. As a result, 11 Reagan officials were convicted of crimes.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
Obama isn't that old, McCain is. So what's MCain trying to say?
Nigel Elliott
· 1 year ago
You'll find FEW Americans wanting to send American troops to defend Israel. Israel has nuclear weapons; already receives billions in US aid for illegal settlements; and has one of the largest military budgets on Earth. Let the Israelis defend their country, so Americans can defend ours.
gee, I wonder if Hilary had any comment. She's been so keen to play republican I'd have thought she would have jumped on the bandwagon by now. And for republican politicians, "in sickness and in health" only holds if they get sick. Hell, spouses are just arm candy to help win elections!
bumpkis
· 1 year ago
Let the Israelis defend their country, so Americans can defend ours.
Nigel..I am so in agreement with that.
Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas
· 1 year ago
"Ah, Mrs. Lovett, desperate times call for desperate measures!"
Here we are now hot out of the oven....it's priest, try a little priest..."
The history of the world, my pet, is who gets eaten and who gets to eat.
Wasn't there a joke that as soon as someone brings up Hitler the argument's officially dead?
HereinDC
· 1 year ago
Want to see McCain blow his top? Here's a question I wish a reporter would ask John McCain,
"If you had to do it all over again, would you leave your 3 young kids behind and move 2500 miles away to be with your new wife?"
.
pcvirginiabeach
· 1 year ago
Why don't they vote to censure Bush on this? Bush and Lieberman both, and anyone else who goes along. These hit them with treason in time of war.
Tom3
· 1 year ago
Chimpy's grandpa Prescott Bush was a Hitler appeaser.
The FBI shut him down in 1942 and threatened him with prison.
And Prescott was part of the attempted coup in 1933.
Chimpy has a lot of nerve invoking 1939 in his speech.
Dave of the Jungle
· 1 year ago
This can all be handled by the League of Nations.
bumpkis
· 1 year ago
And for those who think Israel had nothing to do with the Iraq war...
During a speech at the University of Virginia on September 10th 2002, Philip Zelikow, currently executive director of the 9/11 Commission, said outright: "Why would Iraq attack America or use nuclear weapons against us? I'll tell you what I think the real threat [is] and actually has been since 1990--it's the threat against Israel ... And this is the threat that dare not speak its name, because the Europeans don't care deeply about that threat, I will tell you frankly. And the American government doesn't want to lean too hard on it rhetorically, because it is not a popular sell." (Asia Times 3.30.04)
Hitler appeaser? You mean like Grand Daddy Prescott Bush? Does Georgie really want to go there? Especially since the Bush closets are jam packed with skeletons.
Butch1
· 1 year ago
This is typical republican "logic". They can insult you and make up lies about you and will not apologize, but if you attack them, they scream bloody murder and demand apologies. We've seen this happen in the House and the Senate and of course, who ever the democratic "offender" is, they automatically kow-tow and apologize. I've never cared for this "one-way street."
KerrynowCampau
· 1 year ago
You don't even have to attack them. Just confront them with the truth and they go ape sh*t.
And then the dems apologize.
Tom3
· 1 year ago
I see that Repuke troll Busboy is still in here.
Talk about appeasement. He should have been banned a long time ago.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
Busboy has never threatened to kill anyone here. Hint hint.
grandma
· 1 year ago
Biden's letting Bush and McThuselah have it
Dave of the Jungle
· 1 year ago
McThuselah!
That's funny.
foolme1ns
· 1 year ago
This is a very interesting developement. George Bush says some really stupid things while visiting another country. The hand wringing republicans who have decided they must distance themselves from George Bush if there is any hope of their retaining ANY seats in congress, haven't said a word about this, or tried to distance themselves from his lunacy, and THEIR presumptive candidate comes out and agrees with Bush, making it impossible for them to distance themselves from their current crazy leader.
What an absolute circus. Just when you think dopey couldn't make things worse for the republicans, there he goes again. (to coin a reagan phrase)
Reminds me of the Godfather III. Everytime they try to get away from George Bush, McCain will pull them back in.
Nigel Elliott
· 1 year ago
Wow. Unconditional defence of another country is the BIGGEST ISSUE in the "American" presidential election. Sorry American voter. Your concerns are will have to wait. Take a number.
grandma
· 1 year ago
everyone except her supporters Busboy.....
as Yglesias said today (speaking of some who are upset about the NARAL endorsement of Obama..
."...it's clear that many of Clinton's fans genuinely don't understand that it's not possible for her to make up the ground she needs to and view efforts to get her to drop out as unfair efforts to rig things for Obama."
I think he makes a valid point..........a point she has enabled.
Busboy the Repuke troll has NOTHING to say about the Democratic primary race. His opinion is WORTHLESS.
grandma
· 1 year ago
wow...this Kevin James on Hardball is a total idiot.
DCinDC
· 1 year ago
Remember McCain's respectful campaign? He doesn't.
McCain has all but declared a President Obama would be unfit to defend the United States. During a blogger conference call, McCain was asked about Obama's willingness to engage in diplomacy with Iran. He responded:
All I can say is: If Senator Obama wants to sit down across the table from the leader of a country that calls Israel a stinking corpse, and comes to New York and says they're gonna, quote, "wipe Israel off the map," what is it that he wants to talk about? What is it that he wants to talk about with him?
Now remember 1st you heard Bush's attack then you hear McCain's attack. No accident here. They are ganging up on Obama.
devis1
· 1 year ago
Wow, Tweety is slamming the republican tool. "this is pathetic" "i gotta go to someone who knows some history". "This is pathetic." This is a you tube moment!
devis1
· 1 year ago
Kevin James lost alot of weight.
Nigel Elliott
· 1 year ago
Chris Matthews clobbered a wingnut defending Bush's appeasement jab at Obama. In case you missed it, I am sure it'll be up on YouTube very soon.
Olbermann will definitely cover it too!
preznit_giv_me_turkee
· 1 year ago
well, since McThuselah's older than the Third Reich he knows about nazi appeasment
Nigel Elliott
· 1 year ago
Wasn't McCain Hitler's babysitter? LOL
kevinbgoode
· 1 year ago
You know. . .isn't it possible for Congress to pass some kind of fast legislation and...like revoke Bush's passport while he's still overseas. . and then deny him reentry back into the U.S.?
tas
· 1 year ago
I thought the Nazi appeaser was GWB's grandfather, Senator Prescott Bush. You know, the Senator GWB was talking about in Israel.
devis1
· 1 year ago
Quick question--is Tweety Chris Matthews or Tim Russert? I get their nicknames confused.
grandma
· 1 year ago
lol devis...I didn't know either for a quite a while....it's Matthews
OlderAndWiser
· 1 year ago
If you didn't just see Tweety slam Kevin James, you missed a good one. Kept asking him what Chamberlain did in 1938...James, the "expert" didn't know, finally admitted it. Tweety did make the point that "talking isn't appeasement" and this went on for about 5 minutes. What a stupid, ignorant little bitch James is...
bernardaB
· 1 year ago
Frankly, why does anyone care about Israel? It is not the 51st state. The U.S. has no obligations to it. Look up the interview with former CIA Michael Scheuer by Bill Maher on youtube.
Then Bush says brilliant things like, "Bush said that the National Intelligence Estimate on Iran's nuclear program, which said that Iran halted its nuclear program in 2003, did not alter his stance.
"I interpreted it [the NIE] to mean you better take the Iranian threat seriously," he added. "
We also need to point out that negotiations are not appeasement. The Bush administration has long shown an inability to understand history. Ok, the Bush administration just plain lies about history.
France and Germany had indeed appeased Hitler during the 1938 time frame. They acquiesced when Germany annexed Austria. They turned a blind eye as Hitler sought to extend German territory to the east. Please note, the appeasement consisted of acquiescing to actions taken by a nation in contravention to international law and treaty obligations. It did not refer to merely speaking to an enemy leader.
France and England originally acquiesced because they wanted to see Germany expand eastwards towards Russia. They feared the budding Communist state more than Nazi Germany and wanted Germany as a counter weight to Russia. Ironically, it was the German invasion of Russia that ultimately undermined the German war machine during WWII. The Munich agreement referred to a proposal by Germany to annex the Sudetenland from the Chech state. The Checz had a treaty with France requiring French protection. France, Germany and Britan signed an agreement that set the stage for a referendum of the Sudetenland occupants (somewhat rigged) that led to its incorporation into the German state.
Chamberlain became an object of derision because he honestly thought that this would buy peace. The French were not fooled and had no illusions that Germany posed a threat. They just thought that Russia would become the object of that threat.
The closest precedent to appeasement that I can find in the current Middle East situation would be US support for Iraq in its previous war with Iran. The US knew that Saddam was a terrorist, dictator and war criminal. He was provided with precursors to chemical WMD which were used both against his own people and the Iranians. The US provided critical satellite intelligence to support the Iraqis in order to stave off the defeat of the Iraqi army. The real appeasers were: Reagan, Bush I and Rummy. This is a story that needs to be played up at this time. Make history work for us.
Amazing timing. Didn't McSame say he was going to capture him? :D
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Gawd.
I hope we don't have another election based on what's happening in another country.
I realize Israel's our ally and all, but ignoring our own domestic situation is really getting old.
devis1
· 1 year ago
"George Walker, GW's great-grandfather, also set up the takeover of the Hamburg-America Line, a cover for I.G. Farben's Nazi espionage unit in the United States. In Germany, I.G. Farben was most famous for putting the gas in gas chambers; it was the producer of Zyklon B and other gasses used on victims of the Holocaust. The Bush family was not unaware of the nature of their investment partners. They hired Allen Dulles, the future head of the CIA, to hide the funds they were making from Nazi investments and the funds they were sending to Nazi Germany, rather than divest."
tw9ff
· 1 year ago
By the way, why won't anyone mention that the idiot that wanted to "talk to Hitler" was a Republican from Idaho!? The GOP was isolationist before WW2, they wanted us to get out of Bosnia before we calmed things down, and they want us to stay now in Iraq. It is beyond me how they ever got a reputation as tough on defense. They're idiots!
devis1
· 1 year ago
George Walker was Prescott Bush's father-in-law, a match made in hell.
JMOHR
· 1 year ago
Let us remember that it was Reagan who presented the bes modern example of appeasement. First, he supplied Iran with weapons to delay the US hostage release. Later, his administration entered into a long lasting Iran-Contra arms deal with Iran to illegally fund operations prohibited by US law.
Viceroy
· 1 year ago
This is a pretty facile analysis, John. It insults your intelligence.
I hope the Obama camp refuses to engage in this sort of crap and keeps on driving home that there are more pressing issues that the American people want addressed (health care, jobs, economy...)....keep the Repugs on the defensive with all their "values-look-over-here" crap.
osage
· 1 year ago
Because everyone knows for a fact that McCain has been a Bush appeaser, McCain has to find someone even worse than Bush to accuse Obama of appeasing.. Isn't it rather revealing that the only one he could come up with is Adolph Hitler? What McClueless doesn't understand is that this is the kind of contemptible dirty politics that has made Bush such a beloved icon of American politics. Heckuva job, Johnny. Keep up the good work.
Steve_in_CNJ
· 1 year ago
i guess it takes something this disgusting to remind Hillary who's the enemy:
“I disagree that any president would ever meet with a leader of a country which we have such deep and profound differences as Iran, for example. However I believe there should be diplomatic engagement, which President Bush has resisted from the very beginning. So I think that I have more in common with Sen. Obama and the Democratic position in our understanding of what we have to do to re-engage with the world.”
and with that, she stops likening herself to mccain. is this the beginning of the general election campaign?
Busboy
· 1 year ago
O&W, your skirt's on fire!
Busboy
· 1 year ago
JMOHR; so now you are comparing Obama generically to western Europe in the appeasement mode? Whazzup?
JMOHR
· 1 year ago
No, I am not. Appeasement is not talking. Indeed, I could sit down across from any dictator and say: "If you make any attempt to attack Israel with nuclear weapons or WMD, I can assure you that your country will be a flat parking lot within 1 hour." You would not call that appeasement.
I could have talks with Iran and get them to agree to stop their nuclear program. I could actually have a protocol drawn up that all parties would agree to that would permit Iran to develop nuclear power but with such verifiable safeguards that all experts would agree that it prevented an effective nuclear bomb program.
Chamberlain allowed Hitler to annex a portion of another country to buy peace. Hitler's action contravened international law and a treaty between France and the Checz (the French also signed the agreement) No one has ever suggested that the mere act of opening discussions with an enemy constitutes appeasement. Indeed, you are a fool and a moron (like George Bush) to believe that just speaking to an enemy constitutes appeasement. You show the same ignorance of history and the same lack of common sense that has plagued this administration.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
Just wanted a little amplification on your pontification. No need to get your panties in a wad....
Busboy
· 1 year ago
grandma, we are just seeing the opening rounds. All it means so far is that everybody thinks Hillary's washed up.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
Where's Jeremiah to refute these charges?
Busboy
· 1 year ago
So, Tom3, I see you're back! Did medicare pay for removing the wooden stake from your heart??
All Comments
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/05/15/mccain-obam...
McCain's praise of Ronald Reagan is wholly misplaced. To recap, during the Iran-Contra affair in the 1980s, hostages were not released because of Iran's fear of Reagan, as McCain suggested. In reality, Iran released them after Reagan administration officials infamously sold arms to the country, which were transfered to Ayatollah Khomeini. As a result, 11 Reagan officials were convicted of crimes.
FLASHBACK: Ariel Sharon warns West against appeasement: "Israel is not Czechoslovakia"
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Diplomacy...
And for republican politicians, "in sickness and in health" only holds if they get sick. Hell, spouses are just arm candy to help win elections!
Nigel..I am so in agreement with that.
Here we are now hot out of the oven....it's priest, try a little priest..."
The history of the world, my pet, is who gets eaten and who gets to eat.
Here's a question I wish a reporter would ask John McCain,
"If you had to do it all over again, would you leave your 3 young kids behind and move 2500 miles away to be with your new wife?"
.
The FBI shut him down in 1942 and threatened him with prison.
And Prescott was part of the attempted coup in 1933.
Chimpy has a lot of nerve invoking 1939 in his speech.
During a speech at the University of Virginia on September 10th 2002, Philip Zelikow, currently executive director of the 9/11 Commission, said outright: "Why would Iraq attack America or use nuclear weapons against us? I'll tell you what I think the real threat [is] and actually has been since 1990--it's the threat against Israel ... And this is the threat that dare not speak its name, because the Europeans don't care deeply about that threat, I will tell you frankly. And the American government doesn't want to lean too hard on it rhetorically, because it is not a popular sell." (Asia Times 3.30.04)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/15/13578/8...
And then the dems apologize.
Talk about appeasement. He should have been banned a long time ago.
That's funny.
What an absolute circus. Just when you think dopey couldn't make things worse for the republicans, there he goes again. (to coin a reagan phrase)
Reminds me of the Godfather III. Everytime they try to get away from George Bush, McCain will pull them back in.
as Yglesias said today (speaking of some who are upset about the NARAL endorsement of Obama..
."...it's clear that many of Clinton's fans genuinely don't understand that it's not possible for her to make up the ground she needs to and view efforts to get her to drop out as unfair efforts to rig things for Obama."
I think he makes a valid point..........a point she has enabled.
http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives...
McCain has all but declared a President Obama would be unfit to defend the United States. During a blogger conference call, McCain was asked about Obama's willingness to engage in diplomacy with Iran. He responded:
All I can say is: If Senator Obama wants to sit down across the table from the leader of a country that calls Israel a stinking corpse, and comes to New York and says they're gonna, quote, "wipe Israel off the map," what is it that he wants to talk about? What is it that he wants to talk about with him?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/15/john-m...
Now remember 1st you heard Bush's attack then you hear McCain's attack. No accident here. They are ganging up on Obama.
Olbermann will definitely cover it too!
Then Bush says brilliant things like, "Bush said that the National Intelligence Estimate on Iran's nuclear program, which said that Iran halted its nuclear program in 2003, did not alter his stance.
"I interpreted it [the NIE] to mean you better take the Iranian threat seriously," he added. "
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/943149.html
I am tire of politicians and the press always saying "a threat to the U.S. and Israel" as if Israel had anything to do with the U.S.
Vote in House Rejects Iraq War Funding
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/15/16225/0...
France and Germany had indeed appeased Hitler during the 1938 time frame. They acquiesced when Germany annexed Austria. They turned a blind eye as Hitler sought to extend German territory to the east. Please note, the appeasement consisted of acquiescing to actions taken by a nation in contravention to international law and treaty obligations. It did not refer to merely speaking to an enemy leader.
France and England originally acquiesced because they wanted to see Germany expand eastwards towards Russia. They feared the budding Communist state more than Nazi Germany and wanted Germany as a counter weight to Russia. Ironically, it was the German invasion of Russia that ultimately undermined the German war machine during WWII. The Munich agreement referred to a proposal by Germany to annex the Sudetenland from the Chech state. The Checz had a treaty with France requiring French protection. France, Germany and Britan signed an agreement that set the stage for a referendum of the Sudetenland occupants (somewhat rigged) that led to its incorporation into the German state.
Chamberlain became an object of derision because he honestly thought that this would buy peace. The French were not fooled and had no illusions that Germany posed a threat. They just thought that Russia would become the object of that threat.
The closest precedent to appeasement that I can find in the current Middle East situation would be US support for Iraq in its previous war with Iran. The US knew that Saddam was a terrorist, dictator and war criminal. He was provided with precursors to chemical WMD which were used both against his own people and the Iranians. The US provided critical satellite intelligence to support the Iraqis in order to stave off the defeat of the Iraqi army. The real appeasers were: Reagan, Bush I and Rummy. This is a story that needs to be played up at this time. Make history work for us.
I got your Nazi appeasers right here, George!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/15/161046/...
Why would we expect their surrogates to be any different?
I can't wait to see Obama defeat McCrazy...The brilliant scholar vs. the pandering dullard.
ALERT: A New Message From Osama bin Laden Is on the Way
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2008/05/ale...
I hope we don't have another election based on what's happening in another country.
I realize Israel's our ally and all, but ignoring our own domestic situation is really getting old.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/5/14/171...
“I disagree that any president would ever meet with a leader of a country which we have such deep and profound differences as Iran, for example. However I believe there should be diplomatic engagement, which President Bush has resisted from the very beginning. So I think that I have more in common with Sen. Obama and the Democratic position in our understanding of what we have to do to re-engage with the world.”
and with that, she stops likening herself to mccain. is this the beginning of the general election campaign?
I could have talks with Iran and get them to agree to stop their nuclear program. I could actually have a protocol drawn up that all parties would agree to that would permit Iran to develop nuclear power but with such verifiable safeguards that all experts would agree that it prevented an effective nuclear bomb program.
Chamberlain allowed Hitler to annex a portion of another country to buy peace. Hitler's action contravened international law and a treaty between France and the Checz (the French also signed the agreement) No one has ever suggested that the mere act of opening discussions with an enemy constitutes appeasement. Indeed, you are a fool and a moron (like George Bush) to believe that just speaking to an enemy constitutes appeasement. You show the same ignorance of history and the same lack of common sense that has plagued this administration.