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I'm not sure they're Christians anyway.
For me this has less to do with Prop 8 but the entire question of separation of church and state. When will we return to that premise?
People used to think they were OK, now people put them in league with the Fundamentalists.
Which might be OK for the Mormons if the Fundamentalists accepted them, but they don't and they never will.
They're a religion of hate being shunned by other haters.
Ouch.
What they did was the religious equivalent of killing someone so the big boys will let you into the gang.
And for me, I never thought the Mormons were "OK." It's a cult, pure and simple. Kind of a benign cult, but a cult nonetheless.
And they're worse than fundamentalists, they are a large, severe evil cult.
Destroy the Mormon Cultists financially. Sweet.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_mass.htm
It's his will. I know because he came
To me in a vision in the shape of
Flaming chicken who spoke
In pig Latin with a eastern
European accent and shot
Candy corn out his ass.
Coulter is supposed to have her jaw wired shut for a while.
We should enjoy the sounds of silence.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/25/ann-co...
You stated it perfectly what this complaint is about, but just to reiterate to everybody: This complaint is not about the the mormon cult spending huge amounts of money and providing resources to the yes on 8 campaign. It is about the mormon cult FAILING to report the 'in kind' contributions. That is a violation of California law.
I want to point out that unlike the mormons, the Human Rights Campaign DID report their 'in kind' contributions. A small bit of controversy has actually arisen over that here in California. HRC is counting the equivalent dollar value of the volunteer hours (it's tens of thousands of dollars) and other 'in kind' help they furnished and counting it towards their overall monetary contributions to the No On 8 campaign. Some people think they shouldn't count it as monetary contributions. They reported it regardless, as they are required to by law. The mormon cult didn't and is in violation of the law.
thanks!
oh, and:
<<God wants the Mormans to pay taxes.
It's his will. I know because he came
To me in a vision in the shape of
Flaming chicken who spoke
In pig Latin with a eastern
European accent and shot
Candy corn out his ass.>>
♥
to me in the form of a flaming chicken
Who speaks in pig Latin with a eastern
European accent and shoots candy corn
out of his ass and he asked me why
no one has approached former San
Francisco Quarterback and morman
Steve Young who makes vast sums
of money as a spokesman for products
such as Dodge trucks about his feels
regarding his church using his annual
tribute to promote hate a does he feel
that those who employee him should
reconsider their business ties to him
In light to his association with a hate
promoting institution. And I told God
I'd put it out there and God seemed
Pleased!
The Mormon Church has done more for humanity than this website. They have a welfare program which U.S Presidents( Ronald Reagan ) try to duplicate. They have a program which allows for people around the world to obtain an education, not to mention the canneries, and ranches to designed to dispurse food to the needy. The Mormon Church does not make that public. Those programs alone are tabbed in the millions. So quit playing poor sport, and accept the fact that the majority spoke up and The Mormon church is taking the blame.
I wish that people would take the opportunity to learn more about the Church instead of point fingers and use careless, hateful words, that if those words were used against any other people or religion would be condemned. Good luck Karger. I am sure if the commission can't find anything there will be more riots and rumors, and people looking to spread more hate against the Mormons, it has been going on for years, why stop now , right?
If the Mormon church wants to get into politics, then fine. They should pay taxes, and follow the law.
They made their choice, and we are not going to roll over and take it and stop being patronized for being 'uppity'. Boycott sundance, and the entire state as far as I care. They poked their noses into another state and tipped the scales of a California law. They will pay for their hateful, hypocritical ways.
My drycleaner whom my partner and i have known for years had a 'say yes to 2' bumper sticker on his work van. That was it for me. He chose to emblazen his work vehicle whith that, so I have told all of the other friends, straight or gay about it, and he is losing business. Screw him. He made his choice. I have no guilt about this. NONE. There are thousands of gay people in California who's family unit is becoming unhinged. What about these people? So if someone wants to support this kind of hate, and it is simply hate and ignorance, then I don't have to give them my hard earned money to support their nonsense.
This shouldn't be a difficult question to answer - after all, your Church was highly influential in revoking those rights in several states, including Utah. Despite the claim that the LDS church has nothing against basic fundamental rights for same-sex couples as long as it isn't called "marriage," what did they do in Utah, Arizona, Nevada and Alaska?
The "members" were directed by the Church elders to engage in this campaign to attack the constitutional rights of other American citizens. We will not be beholden to your manufactured "religious" beliefs, nor held hostage under our government to Mormon doctrine.
So tell us about the "love" used by the Mormon church to "re-educate" gay people into becoming straight? Wasn't there a policy of shock treatment involved?
Double standard? Maybe the gays should introduce identical re-education programs for Mormons.
Invalidating the marriages of 36,000 people and disrupting 18,000 families isn't a pretty picture. Are you now claiming that the proposition wasn't designed to symbolically tear up the marriage licenses of those couples?
Secondly, the groups that organized and fundraised for No On 8 are required to report their 'in kind' contributions, non-profit or not. As I pointed out in a post downthread, they did. The mormons DIDN"T. That is a violation of California election laws. There is no double standard. Just because the mormons are a "church" doesn't make them unaccountable for their contributions. The organizing the mormon "church" provided is irrefutable.
You bet it's an emotional issue. You would be a little upset if I came into your state and spent tens of millions of dollars to convince the voters to try to invalidate your marriage. It is the "church" I am angry with. I understand not all mormons supported prop 8. I actually know a few. Some of them even spoke at one of the big protest rallies here in San Francisco a few weeks ago.
Lastly, the funny ad you mentioned was an internet ad that was obviously tongue-in-cheek with it's message. The television ad of the crying little girl running to her mom basically saying "Mommy, mommy the big bad gays are out to get me" was VERY serious in tone and blatantly tried to make gays and lesbians out to be a bunch of child molesters or kidnappers. It played on the ignorant fears of the uneducated and was WAY over the line. You can thank your "church" for funding that.
...And remember, the Mormons started this hate fest. You own it. NO HUMAN BEING IN THE U.S. HAS EVER BEEN MARRIED IN A CHURCH. PERIOD. Keep your stupid 'marriage' word, and give me the thousand federal rights I am denied by virtue of my birthing order. It is wrong, and we are on the right side of the issue. You will fail.
Just like your cult like so called religion shifts it's so called 'values' when no longer convenient, ie polygamy. We will win in the end. So stop being a hypocrite and mind your own business. You are completely un affected by whether or not I can get married. Go to hell.
Personally, I am all for companionship, I beleive that every human is entitled to equal rights. Maybe you can help me understand this, with out being so bitter. So what is the answer? You have to undserstand something, change is hard, and if the majority says we change the definition of marriage, then so be it, I mean it seems kind of silly to some degree that we are fighting over a definition. But that definition carries a lot of weight for a lot of peole, both for you and for me. I don't even know you, so I have to respect you because you have given me no reason not to. But why marriage , why now, remind you I am not gay so I don't have insight into this. To some degree I feel as if I have opened a can of worms, and I apologize for that.
Personally, I could care less about the word 'marriage'. I don't care. I may never even get married, even if I could. But there are a thousand benefits that one segment of our society is entitled to, and another by conservitive numbers 20 million Americans who are not entitled to those same rights.
That's all I care about. Words, do not matter to me. I have no desire to even go to church because I am not welcomed. I was standing in the tax collectors office today and this young couple was standing next to me obtaining a marraige license. Something I could never do. They were half my age, less educated....and apeared to me the only thing they could do differenlty than me is pro-create. It dawned on me at that moment that I was in the back of the bus. It's simply not fair.
I am glad I had this conversation, all though I feel as if I should run off with my tail between my legs, Clearly there has to be an answer, but what is it? The words back of the bus, seem so strong, man it really paints a picture. You know and that is exactly the direction I do not want this to go. At the end of the day we are all human and should be treated equally. Now here is the big surprise, I am Mormon, I know surprising , huh. You know hate is such a strong thing. I am sure your whole life you have felt it. I am totally opening up here. My wife and I both are up in the air on this one. I see you as a person, not a statistic. I am just tired of the Mormon Church being the only drug through the mud here, and there were many other churches, and normal folks that are part of this. I understand that the funding was strongly solicited through the Mormon circles, but when I hear at rallies F the Mormon Church, it hurts man. When I was in 8th grade my house was vandalized and Book of Mormons were shredded across my lawn, gas was poured on my plants, and it hurt, so I can feel your pain a little bit, but what is the answer? At what point do we blame democracy? At the end of the day will you see me as a human or as a Mormon?
Thanks Mark, I appreciate your insight.
Take care-
M :-)
Are you an Attorney, you have a very good way of presenting facts and insight?
Take care and have a great Thanksgiving.
No, I am an Architect. Perhaps I should have studied law. And perhaps we should on this site realize that you atract more flies with honey. I need to remind myself of that if we are to progress.
Have a happy and healthy thanksgiving. I live every day in gratitude.
Take care-
Mark
This is addicting! I promise this will be my last one, but honestly, I am so happy we had this conversation. Really it seems so sad that it started the way it did, but seriously this feels good. I am honestly going to remember this conversation, and remember Mark as a person and not a statistic. And I hope that you can do the same with me.
Thanks again,
Mitchell
- Mountain Meadows, on that fateful day when the Mormons murdered 120 innocent men, women and children?
- the Mormons denied the priesthood to some men based solely on the color of their skin for more than 24 years after the passage of the Civil Rights Act?
- when after the 'proclamation of the end of celestial marriage' (on earth) hundreds of church leaders continued to practice it, in violation of the law, the state constitution and their own GOD?
- when Mormons killed two state troopers, and then viciously mutilated one of the bodies at Hauns Mill?
- when Joseph Smyth crowned himself KING?
- when they extorted 22 million dollars from their membership so they could publish lies and distortions to win a battle which has nothing to do with god or religion, but demoralized and disenfranchised an entire group of Americans?
What I said is true though. People can research and print portions of what they find to support their point of view. That is weak-minded and cowardly. I don't dislike gays necessarily. I dislike their movement and their methods of instigating change....that may change though. If I keep reading posts like those on this board maybe I'll develop a dislike for individual gays...which would be too bad b/c I'm sure there are some very good gay people.
I could give a rat's ass about the Mormon's "charitable" ventures - because we all know they are tied to missionary work as well - and recruiting members is what that is all about. What, exactly, is the Mormon interest in removing the constitutional rights of the gay community which marries in other churches?
It seems to me that we are learning a lot about the Church, thank you very much. And just because you don't like having the spotlight shown on your own imagined voice-in-the-sky superstition doesn't mean the victims of your horrendous "religious" oppression should remain silent in the face of such outrageous disregard for their rights as American citizens.
It has not been the gay community which launched and financially supported ballot referendums to remove your church's constitutional rights. So let's stop this pretense about how your 'church" doesn't hate. Do you think you Mormons are the only ones who ever give food to the needy? That you are the only ones who ever help your fellow man? Just think about the gays drummed out of the military after they've fought for your church's right to persecute them. And the gays who contribute to their own church programs to feed the hungry, or the non-church goers who contribute charity to the poor and unfortunate.
We are learning a whole lot about your little authoritarian "religion," - and it ain't a pretty picture. Just because your own psychological needs require submission to some manufactured patriarchal figure doesn't mean the rest of us should be forced to recognize it or accept it. After all, becoming a Mormon is a "lifestyle choice" with, apparently, special rights to practice a "faith" dependent on the persecution of others.
So stick it in your magic underwear and keep your fucking Jesus off my penis.
Take care,
Then you will begin to understand how we feel on the other side of the issue.
Peace-
Then learn the many colors of hate and their disguises. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Take care , and have a great holiday. Please read my comments below to Mark.
http://thesebastards.blogspot.com/
My own sister supported Prop 8 as a bible believer though she herself is an unmarried virgin. It is sad that she feels that imposing her belief system on others to this extent has any merit.
I hope that the LDS church is held accountable if they did indeed skirt campaign finance laws. I think it's long past time to stop giving the corporate entities known as churches the blanket tax exemptions they currently enjoy.
It is important to point out that the initial reason to give them tax exempt status was because they provided the social safety net. We could more better fund secular social services with the money that would otherwise go to tax breaks for houses of worship.
APPRAISE THE LORD! TAX THE CHURCHES!!
I hope gays are held accountable for their public intrusion into the lives of the rest of us and at the expense of the California tax payer in that they are forced to pay the bill for the legal challenges and the time wasted by the California Supreme Court.
...See? we can all make crap up to support our position.
This board is a joke and so is the GayLezBiTrianimalMixedup movement.
You have neighbors exposing themselves? Turn them in. Ask an elder; they'll give you their blessing (since LDS seem to need validation from authorities). Just don't use your stupidity to tar an entire group because of the actions of individuals.
If that was legitimate, we could assume that all Mormons are shit for brains based on what a mental midget you are.
Lance, I don't think he meant that his gay neighbors were literally exposing their bodies. Instead he meant that they were exposing their gayness by things like, I dunno, maybe their well-tended lawn or superb window treatments or greeting one another with a kiss at the door or maybe just daring to share the same house. Y'know. Gay stuff.
I was just joking him.
Wait...maybe you are, too!
:)
If there was a big push to deny these churches, Catholics included here, their tax exempt status when they are actively involved in political pandering then we might save this nation and promote equal rights for all.
The courts will decide this, and they will decide for equality and against bigotry. This is the 21st century, and if you decide to hate your fellow Americans because of their sexual preference, something they are born with, then it only hurts you.
-Lee 'Scratch' Perry
Mahatma Ghandi said, "I like your Jesus Christ...I just don't like your Christians...they are so unlike your Jesus Christ."
Even if there is a dispute between some christian churches and the LGBT community on the nature of marriage, that does not mean that we cannot discussed it in a democratic way.
you FREAK
Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas: Your comments are inappropriate at best and bigoted at worst...like most fags you're a hypocrite.
I hope, not only that you never get the ability to be legally married, but that you will never be able to brain-wash a majority of rational people into thinking that what you are doing is acceptable. You're actions are gross, unnatural and despicable and your words reflect the type of person (people) you are.
There is no such thing as a gay gene...just immoral decisions.
You don't want to put your genitals someplace, more power to you. That you worry so much about everyone else's sex organs is the perversion. LDS is as bad as the RCC in that they have turned a blind eye to pedophelia and child abuse for the sake of PR. Plural marriages and child brides (of blood relations no less) is another thing that LDS downplay because it occurs within a splinter group. LDS is no more able to lay claim to the one true church than RLDS or any of the other Mormon offshoots.
Worry about your own ethics and values and you might get somewhere.
You sound like an ex. Too bad. I'm sure you've yet to reconcile your new reality with how you thought it would be to be "free".
I'm not worried about offending anybody (and neither are the foul posters on this board). I don't like the way the gay movement has singled out the LDS church. MAYBE 350,000 voted (voting statistics would say at most 200,000 LDS cast their vote for or against 8) but 100% of the gay vitriol targets the LDS church. What you're all afraid to say is that you hate Blacks and Hispanics. They're the groups who really influenced the outcome of 8. BUT you're all too afraid to accurately direct your outrage (outrage at democracy) and so you malign the LDS church and it's meek members.
If you think that the LDS church turns a blind eye to any inappropriate action, you’ve forgotten your own church council.
To say the FLDS is still somehow connected is as accurate as saying you’re gay (which I still think is the case…so maybe that’s not a great example).
This has nothing to do with LDS specific doctrine or claims of divine authority. This has everything to do with the democratic process and a small group of people attacking an even smaller group of people…b/c that’s how bullies do it. They don’t attack the one that really inflicted the damage (Blacks and Hispanic VOTERS) they turn and attack a smaller, defenseless group. But, honestly, we don’t care. I’m glad that I belong to a group that maintains it’s position in the face of hate, intimidation and slander.
It is both comical & typical on your part to question my sexuality though I would be upfront about it if I was gay as there is nothing to be ashamed of regarding one's sexual orientation.
It seems that many most concerned about same sex relations are just overcompensating. I suspect that you are conflicted about your feelings; maybe felt an attraction towards your missionary partner that scared you.
It appears the real "Demonic, Homicidal,Obsessed, Zealots" are people such as yourself, who have little to offer, but much to hate.
LDS is a misnomer. these are NOT saintly people. should be church of NDS. NEVER DAY SAINTS.
leave the rest of ud alone,
LOVE is sexless.