AMERICAblog: Mormon favorability rating drops over last year
AlanW
· 6 months ago
As a former Mormon and a former missionary for the church I can tell you that there are many good people in the Mormon Church. I can also tell you that it is the most terrifying religion to be a part of. The temple ceremony when I went through many years ago was horrible. Then there is baptism for the dead. The Mormons say that they only baptise those relatives of Mormons but that is an outright lie. They go to countries all over the world and get records and baptise those souls also. Then they stick their nose in the business of California. This is a Church who was against the Civil Rights Movement in the 60's, against the ERA, and now against gays. When will the people of this church wake up and smell the coffee....oh, wait, they won't they don't drink coffee. It is a crazy religion that calls the Catholic Church the "Whore of all the Earth" then goes into cahoots with them against gay marriage. How hypocritical it that? When I was excommunicated I had never felt more free in my life. I just hope that people in that brainwashing religion wake up and get out too.
RitornaVincitor
· 6 months ago
I guess it came as a revelation to a lot of Americans that Mormons would be so mean-spirited as to try not only to deny marriage to millions of people, but to take it away from thousands who already had it. That probably didn't help Mormon popularity very much.
And then there were all the revelations about Mormon beliefs that were aired as a result of Prop 8. My favorite is that Mormons believe African Americans have the "mark of Cain", but if they lead a righteous life, Heavenly Father will lighten their skin.
As for Evangelicals, my favorite line to get rid of them when they come knocking on the door is to interrupt their sales pitch and ask with a big smile, "Oh, is this about God?". When they answer in the affirmative, look suddenly sad for them and say, "Oh, I'm sorry. We already have one." Then slam the door.
KerrynowCampau
· 6 months ago
LOL! Good one
RitornaVincitor
· 6 months ago
lol. Sometimes it's fun to lower your voice several octaves and pretend you're the demon Pazuzu from The Exorcist.
samiinh
· 6 months ago
Around here we get the JWs. One day they came to the door, and my partner opened the door and politely told them to move on. When he closed the door, he realized he was wearing a tee-shirt that read, "I'm not gay, but my boyfriend is." We had a wonderful laugh many times about that.
RitornaVincitor
· 6 months ago
Lol. I'll bet those JWs could relate.
jixter
· 6 months ago
Nobody's ever knocked on my door like that but somebody once, outside Sears, asked me if I was a Christian and, without thinking about it, I replied "No, I'm an American".
He got that confuddled dog-look on his face that dogs sometimes get and his mouth was hanging there, open, as I walked away.
I still chuckle every time I think of it. I've never been known for being particularly quick on the uptake but, on that occasion, I out-did myself.
Good stuff, RitornaVincitor!
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
Yup, I'd say "I already have a perfectly good religion, thank you," and slam the door.
That was more than a dozen years ago, tho, and they'd get a bigger piece of my ire today.
But I live in a fairly "liberal" neighborhood, and I guess the Mormons gave up on us long ago.
Or had too many doors slammed in their faces.
RitornaVincitor
· 6 months ago
We mostly get Jehovah's Witnesses. But I remember a Mormon two years ago. It was after dark and we were watching TV downstairs with several cats on our laps when the doorbell rang. I trudged all the way upstairs to find this squeaky clean kid on the porch. As soon as he started talking I noticed the book of Mormon in his hand. All I said was, "Oh Jesus Christ!" and slammed the door in his face. But I didn't get a chance to enjoy it because as I started back down to the television room I heard him outside shouting in a high-pitched voice, "God bleeeess yooooou!" lol. They love that guilt tactic.
cowboyneok
· 6 months ago
They should have left "well enough alone" but they somehow overreached when everyone equated Mormonism with "Donnie and Marie." I used to not even give them a thought, and while visiting Utah I thought they seemed somehow "strange" but I was friendly to them. NOT ANY MORE! They've more than destroyed their label the last couple of years... They are an evil cult that deserve nothing but contempt and the rest of us asking them to get their own screwed up "cult house" in order before they start trying to tell the rest of us how to live. A good start would be for their polygamist families to stop kicking their "extra boys" out to run the streets when the young boys start presenting themselves as potential rivals to the elderly men in the Mormon church who want to screw and impregnate all the younger Mormon girls. Just another example of how Mormons could clean up their act...
Andres
· 6 months ago
Hmm it seems you are an idiot. If this is what your religion teaches you then you and wgoever have joined in is going to hell. Polygamist have nothing to do with mormons. You are ignorant. If you want to treat us mormons like that ok go for it but what kind of religion teaches you to do this?? Hate isnt from God and your hate comes from your lack of understanding. You are confused cause obviously it is directed towards the wrong people. Does it ever occure to you if a mormon girl is pregnant it means she is legally married to him??? Yup even us mormons get married and have babies. Dont confuse the fundamentalists with us.
John Aravosis
· 6 months ago
Unfortunately, your leaders have hopped into bed with the fundamentalists. And honestly, if your people are going to spread lies about gays coming for people's children, then we have every right to discuss the truth about your history of polygamy, your current problems with ongoing polygamy, and your recent history of extreme racism. For starters.
samiinh
· 6 months ago
The God Makers, Ed Decker & Dave Hunt P. 184-185, Facing the Consequences.
Joseph Smith’s “Revelation” regarding polygamy, …became the cornerstone of the faith: “If plurality of marriage [polygamy] is not true….then marriage for eternity is not true, and your faith is all vain, and all the sealing ordinances and powers pertaining to marriages for eternity are vain, worthless, good for nothing; for as sure as one is true the other also must be true.” Orson Pratt, an original member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles.
• Unfortunately for the credibility of Mormonism, the entire structure is built upon Joseph Smith alone and either stands of falls with him.
• The very Apostles and Presidents who rightly declared that anyone who renounced polygamy ought logically to renounce all of Joseph Smith’s other “revelations” and Mormonism itself.
• This leaves the sincere Mormon in a perplexing dilemma. The key to his “exaltation” (godhead), the “new and everlasting covenant,” the most important “revelation” ever given to man, the very essence of Mormonism.
• Today’s Mormons affirm that polygamy is still all that Joseph Smith claimed, but that the Church is temporarily excommunicating and banding as criminals any Mormons who practice it to prevent wholesale persecution.
• If polygamy is indeed the very heart of the “restored gospel of Jesus Christ,” the key to salvation, then this good news of exaltation through polygamy ought to be preached to the whole world at all cost.
cowboyneok
· 6 months ago
Oh, stop getting your panties in a wad, Mormon and stop LYING FOR THE LORD.
Does it ever occur to you, you Mormons aren't authorities on ANYTHING? So, you just need to sit down and shut up.
samiinh
· 6 months ago
From you link:
Any Mormon claiming that the church no longer teaches or believes in polygamy is grossly ignorant of their religion. The church doesn't go out of their way to emphasize it, but it is still very much a doctrine. Of course, like in most religions, most Mormons haven't read their scriptures, don't really know what their church believes, and only know whatever they happen to absorb while not napping in church which is whatever the church wants them to now.
ndtovent
· 6 months ago
Only the first wife is legally married to him according to state laws. None of the other subsequent wives are considered legally married to the man by the state. Your church should really start directing its resources to stopping the spread of polygamy and forced plural marriages in that other wing/sect (whatever you want to call it), and STOP accepting tithes from it.
Monica
· 6 months ago
Hahahahahahahaha!!
Two thoughts come to mind: Someone needs to set up an internet church that virtually dead-dunks all the dead mormon souls, maybe into the church of human secularist or something like that! Mormons only pay attention when we start pushing right back at them!
Second, stop whining about being 'persecuted' when you're simply getting the consequences of all your stupid choices, Mormons! Sheesh!! You and the other religious fanatics in America need to grow up and reap what you sow like adults, instead of whining like crybabies just because you can't force everyone else do to your will!
scottinsf
· 6 months ago
I give a standing ovation to John, Joe, and the commenters here at Ablog for publicly rebuking the lies and distortions that the LDS "church" peddles.
Keep it up!
marblex
· 6 months ago
They are cultists and even fanatical "christians" hate them.
If the IRS had any balls at all, LDS' tax exemption would have been revoked long ago.
Rob Mule
· 6 months ago
Maybe a good promotional effort should be in the works...Like giving away one of Moroni's plates in a box of Breeze???
cion
· 6 months ago
Inaccurate facts or not, Mormons are still (collectively) batshit crazy bigots. I'm glad I got out.
UncleBucky
· 6 months ago
No problem. It needs to be out. I drive by a Mormon Temple every day in the NW Suburbs of Chicago. There is a lot of expensive stonework there, and clearly you are looking at 10s of millions of dollars dedicated to batshit craziness: The Planet Golub, a JC a 1st Century follower wouldn't recognize (and who might laugh at).
Read any of this nonsense (remember, the KJV Bible has been edited by them, and you can't trust their versions).... and you wonder if they are on a different planet than we are. http://scriptures.lds.org/
I'm glad I am on the outside looking in. I have at least 10% discretionary income AT MY DISCRETION. Hehe...
Ugh.
LowKey
· 6 months ago
It is not as bad as scientology at extorting money from its members, but they have a few nasty tricks too.
For example if you are a mormon, even one who no longer beleives or attends, and one of your children decides to wed in the Mormon Temple (and they are under enormous pressure to do so) the only way you can attend the wedding is to give ten percent of what you made in the past yea to the mromon church. IOW, if you and your wife made a combined 125K - you have to pay $12,500 to see your own childs wedding.
UncleBucky
· 6 months ago
wife? ;-)
Be sure of whom you are talking with!
Wink wink, nudge nudge. Do your wives... Are they go'ers? Do they, uh... you know.... (after a Monty Python sketch for the Mormon Blog Minders here).
I got ya, lowkey, but for every thing they don't do as bad as Scientologists, they are planning something for the Nation and world far worse in the future when they take over. OR at least that is what their documents claim....
Ugh.
LowKey
· 6 months ago
LOL well yes, I was referring to the entire readership and not just you in that example. ;-)
ANd anyway, I have several gay friends (I can think of three off the top of my head) and one gay BIL who had wives. I does happen. (Especially growing up mormon - you are taught that marrying a woman is how to deal with the "problem.")
Hopefully we will see less and less of that thuogh, now that "opposite marriage" is no longer the only option.
tomtallis
· 6 months ago
I am sooooooo effing sick and tired of Jesus.
Isadore
· 6 months ago
Amen.
jixter
· 6 months ago
Oh, sorry, Isadore! I didn't mean to step on your post.
Isadore
· 6 months ago
No problemo jixter - I have nothing against religion per se but like so many I wish they would mind their own damn business!
Enough already!
jixter
· 6 months ago
Amen to that, tomtallis! And by the way, what's up with iamse7en's mouth? I think he means it to be a bubblegum bubble but my first thought on seeing it was of a bukkake funnel! I guess I just have a dirty mind - or else it's Friday night and I'm thinking about cowboyneok too much.
mark
· 6 months ago
That whole spat over OUR families being attacked, and OUR Constitutional rights being removed from the equal protection clause, and our labeling Utah = Hate state, then Chris Buttars calling homosexuals the WORST threat to America, and he was responsible for gay teens tortured in the FOUL mormon gulags...West Ridge Academy...for months and years. THAT takes it's toll on Mormon's and Utah's reputation. to show there's no hard feelings, I want to help out Utah's tourism. http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-8/1210139/U... and http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-8/1210139/u...
cuz I'm a GIVER
John Aravosis
· 6 months ago
Someone should take a look at Evergreen some time...
mark
· 6 months ago
I looked up what I guess you referred to http://www.evergreen.edu/catalog/2009-10/progra... Granted my skills are outdated, but when I attended college, computers used keypunch cards and didn't fit in one room, but I have a Fine Arts degree.
LowKey
· 6 months ago
Evergreen is a mormon conversion therapy program that tries to force gays to become straight. Up until the 1990s they used torture techniques at the BYU Evergreen center.
Evergreen is still active but to my knowledge no longer uses torture.
mark
· 6 months ago
Thanks
West Ridge Academy videos on youtube, and mormongulags.com have some pretty ugly testimonials Chico Blanco also has a blog, and posts on Pam's House Blend knows a lot about the Mormons, and finds out inside stuff better than any I've seen.
Judas Peckerwood
· 6 months ago
Go Geoducks!
Chrissy
· 6 months ago
"and presumably slept with) his mother, Mary."
Now I get where you are confused about Mormon beliefs.
In Christianity, they believe that God The Father, Jesus Christ and The Holy Ghost are all one god in different forms.
In Mormonism, they believe all three are distinct and seperate Gods. Technically, Mormons are poly-theists.
hopeless pedant
· 6 months ago
That the devil was the brother of Christ is part of all Christian theology, not just Mormon.
He started in heaven with God the Father, then was cast out.
caphillprof
· 6 months ago
I think you need to reread your theology.
Christ was an only child. Jesus had brothers and sisters (James is the most famous, he headed the Jerusalem church that conflicted with Paul). Said siblings were only devils by hyperbole.
The devil, i.e. Satan, was a fallen angel. Angels where another order of created beings. Supposedly, God found them lacking so he created mankind.
I'm not sure angels have families but, Satan is more akin to Michael or Gabriel or even the Mormon Moroni.
John Aravosis
· 6 months ago
Exactly.
samiinh
· 6 months ago
Can you prove that Jesus even existed? or had a brother named James? I doubt it.
caphillprof
· 5 months ago
The proof of Jesus is not really relevant to the mischaracterization of the theology. The theology is a fact, even if Jesus were not. I will rely upon Josephus for the "proof" of Jesus.
As for a brother named James, that is in the New Testament. Again, it may not be true, but it is true as far as the theology.
No Christian theology posits that Satan was the brother of Jesus.
samiinh
· 5 months ago
By theology, I assume you mean the made-up story that people take as truth on faith? Right?
HereinDC
· 6 months ago
I read the article too.
I liked the quote which needs to be repeated...
" The Mormons are Coming !!...the Mormons are Coming!!"
norbizness
· 6 months ago
For an adherent of any religion to start bashing the adherent of another religion for "crazy beliefs" is quite amusing. Not that I know what John's religious beliefs are, but obviously his dismissal of Mormonism could be turned into a form letter and used against Scientology, Catholicism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, etc.
John Aravosis
· 6 months ago
On the contrary. I'm not bashing. I'm simply saying that I suspect your approval ratings are going down because Americans, as a whole, are opposed to your positions on grave robbing and incest. I'm not judging.
Though there is one problem with your premise. Many Americans do not consider Mormonism a religion. They consider it a cult. So they might object to you comparing tolerance for other religions to tolerance for Mormonism in the same way that, say, tolerance for Catholicism is not akin to tolerance for Scientology. Again, I'm just stating an observation.
DavidinPS
· 6 months ago
Good idea!! If you'll type up the letter, I'll pitch in for postage.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
Hey, I could care less about their nutso mythology -- but lies and bullying to deny my blood relatives their civil rights, hey, that's got my attention.
Their nutso mythology is just the nuts in their bigotry cake, and if used to highlight how stupid their beliefs are about teh gays, perfectly fair game.
The Mormon
· 6 months ago
This has to top my list as the most uniformed, illogical and biased post against Mormons I've ever seen. Where did you scrape up this information? Jesus marrying his Mother? Are you making this stuff up? References please. 'Magic' underwear? Such a term would never be used or even inferred by the temple garment. 'Forced' secret baptisms? You make it sound like they're digging up graves. 'Forcibly' converting? Then you believe that living Mormons performing a proxy baptisms for deceased persons have some sort of irrepressible control over their souls?
This is pretty fun stuff. Seriously, what tabloid did you get it from?
mark
· 6 months ago
Maybe you'd like to try to laugh off some of your Church's REAL G*D DAMNED SINS? Like publishing the HATEFUL "to young men only" pamphlet which advocated gay bashing....printed for decades. Or would you like to delve into the NAACP lawsuits involving a Black Boy Scout they wouldn't advance, or Temple THUGS murdering the body guard of the elder who DARED ordain the first Black Man? Maybe you'd like to share your thoughts on the EXTRAORDINARY amount of Mormon Boy Scout leaders buggering Scouts.
btw I can BACK UP all my claims with links.
caphillprof
· 6 months ago
Mormons can dish it out but they can't take it.
The Mormon
· 6 months ago
Yeah, Mormons should just go our quiet way, like Mr. Aravosis for example. I mean, say whatever you want about the Mormons...no rules, just make stuff up. It's this fun? Can I try?
mark
· 6 months ago
Gosh it's hard to believe TWO STATES tossed your church OUT....cuz you seem so PH*CKIN friendly, and you folks always MIND YOUR OWN BU$INE$$!
John Aravosis
· 6 months ago
Again, I welcome any of our readers Googling the Mormons and finding out the truth for themselves. They can start with the recent AP article about how you lied to the Jews and continued to try to steal the souls of Holocaust victims for 14 years after you promised you'd stopped. You can deny all you like. Our readers can do their own research to confirm what you are. Clearly we're hitting a raw nerve, or Mormon HQ wouldn't be sending you to spread your propaganda. More info on stealing Holocaust victims' souls here:
Mormon high command doesn't have to send out these goobers, they spend all their time scouring the stories about LDS. They also baptised Barack Obama's deceased mother against their family's wishes. and for you miserable BUSYBODIES attacking our families,,,,pass this around http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showComment.do?co...
tomtallis
· 6 months ago
"Can I try?" You haven't got it in you.
samiinh
· 6 months ago
Can you explain why your temple rituals mimic those of the Masonic Order, almost word for word? Do you still have the secret handshakes and the oaths not to reveal what you've do on the pain of death?
mark
· 6 months ago
My mother who was a devout Mormon woman, who changed to my father's faith Lutheran when I was young, later was very active in the Eastern Star, and my father was a 32 degree Mason. Therefore my mother knew BOTH secrets. My mother was baptised hundreds of times, but then it was reserved for children who died before they reached the age of 8 yo. In her own family her mother miscarried three babies, so some of those baptisms were for her own sisters.
John Aravosis
· 6 months ago
I'm sorry, I forgot to add "Lying for the Lord" to the list of Mormon sins. But do keep it up with the passive aggressive commenters hired by Mormon HQ. You only prove our point, that you folks are just this side of Scientology.
The Mormon
· 6 months ago
Ah, Mr. Aravosis. (Continuing the 'anything goes' game) It's the 'Hired henchmen' like myself that try to keep this firestorm going you see (wink). Perhaps we should finally discard our passiveness and simply follow your lead? Please explain to me the difference between religious, racial and homosexual bigotry?
Recent protests against the Mormon Church are full of irony. "You better be more tolerant or I'll burn your church down."
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
Huh?
Your argument makes no sense, as argument.
And, you manage to insert yet another lie into that lack of argument -- that those protesting Mormon bigotry in action are somehow advocating "church burning."
That protests against your church's institutional bigotry and attempts to codify that bigotry into United States government policy, are some bigoted.
Again, huh? Discussing your church's bigotry in action (and quoting actual Mormon scripture) is somehow bigotry?
Not in a reality based universe, but that, again, is the problem with Mormonism.
Lies built upon lies.
John Aravosis
· 6 months ago
It's called Lying for the Lord, Judy. It's a tenet of the Mormon church. You can google it, it's pretty fascinating stuff. Very cult like, actually.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
Here are some (of the many) citations for Mormons Lying for the Lord:
"Dallin H. Oaks, Apostle, "Gospel Teachings About Lying", Clark Memorandum BYU (Spring 1994 pg. 16-17). In this Oaks acknowledges 'Lying for the Lord' by early Mormon leaders. Joseph Smith lied about many of his activities and the overwhelming historical evidence forced Oaks to admit the lies. Among Mormons and former Mormons it has become known as "Lying for the Lord".
"Lying for the Lord refers to the practice of lying to protect the image of and belief in the Mormon religion, a practice which Mormonism itself fosters in various ways. From Joseph Smith's denial of having more than one wife, to polygamous Mormon missionaries telling European investigators that reports about polygamy in Utah were lies put out by "anti-Mormons" and disgruntled ex-members, to Gordon B. Hinckley's dishonest equivocation on national television over Mormon doctrine, Mormonism's history seems replete with examples of lying. Common members see such examples as situations where lying is justified. For the Mormon, loyalty and the welfare of the church are more important than the principle of honesty, and plausible denials and deception by omission are warranted by an opportunity to have the Mormon organization seen in the best possible light. This is part of the larger package of things that lead many to describe Mormonism as a cult. "Lying for the lord" is part of Mormonism's larger deceptive mainstreaming tactics, and conversion numbers would drastically lower if important Mormon beliefs were fully disclosed to investigators. "
Clear enough? Practice whatever the hell you want behind closed doors - the LGBT community is NONE of your business. Verstehen Sie?
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
You can lie, or refuse to do a simple search for all the above information about your own religion, but you can't run from the American public's revulsion for Mormon bullying tactics (and more lies) on Prop 8, trying to force their own bigotry on a whole state.
Mormons can run (and lie), but they can't hide from their own sick actions.
The Mormon
· 6 months ago
Let me see if I understand you correctly. 'You' (or Mr. Aravosis) can say anything you please about Mormons (aside from prop 8), but 'I' am responsible for digging up 'your' references?
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
You're responsible for your own lies and obfuscations: and being willfully blind to the truth about the practice of your own religion.
Go back and read the multiple diaries Aravosis has written on this issue, you'll find all the citations you need to take those blinders off.
We're not required to educate you with every diary, especially of the obvious.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
Since you're too lazy (or too happy to lie) to do your own research, below is a recent account of Mormon's disgustingly insane attempt to "convert" dead Jews by baptizing them:
Okay, lazy pants, Measure above did your research for you:
"I found the following not from McConkie, but from authorized mormon Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, Apostle Orson Hyde:
Jesus also married Mary and Martha and the other Mary at Cana of Galilee, “Whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified” (Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, 4:259; 2:82)"
Jesus as an incestuous polygamist, niiiiiiiiice theology you've got there. Ugh.
The Mormon
· 6 months ago
Judy, this passage does not say that Jesus married his Mother. This is where your research begins. Remember, remember, the importance of context in all of your studies. I'm glad you're reading the Journal of Discourses though. Are you taking notes? What volume are you on?
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
Yeah, like the context of the lies in the commercials Mormon funded to promote Prop H8 in California, and the millions of dollars spent to promote the bigotry of the Mormon church in another state -- like that context?
That passage doesn't say Jesus married his mother? Really? When that's what it says?
But even if you're correct on that point -- why would you lie, although lying is approved by your church, for religious reasons -- then we're left with Jesus the Polygamist, according to Mormon scripture.
Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
About as nice as baptizing Obama's mother and Anne Frank into Mormonism after their death.
And lying to deny American citizens their civil rights.
The American people see you for what you are, liars and bigots.
More lies aren't going to change that.
jixter
· 6 months ago
"Mormonism" sounds like a disease.
"The heartbreak of psoriasis"
"The soul-wrenching shame of Mormonism"
mark
· 6 months ago
@The Mormon
RATHER presumptuous to call yourself "THE" mormon, I thought being prideful was frowned upon. But be that as it may, I was blessed Mormon, my Mother converted when us kids ranged from 11yo to 4yo. I had great grandparents who lived in territorial Utah, and lived until their late 90's, so I knew them until I became an adult. I have about 50 LDS members in my extended family who love and respect me as openly gay.
tomtallis
· 6 months ago
It really doesn't matter what nonsense you believe as long as you keep it to yourself. You Jesus people are offending more and more Americans and it's going to start costing you, finally. Frankly it couldn't happen to a better set of gullible fools. Keep your fucking Jesus OUT of my life.
jixter
· 6 months ago
Is this what they call "lying for the lord"?
shell
· 6 months ago
There are two cases to be made. There is the here and now, which is the Mormons being hateful and interfering with Americans' lives -- i.e. gay marriage. Then there is their religion, such as baptizing dead people. I realize a lot of this talk is to alienate them (giving them a taste of their own medicine), but all the hysteria over baptizing the dead? Just that -- hysteria.
With Mormons and anti-Mormons alike -- what's the big deal? A person dies. Religious people think the soul goes to heaven. (I assume, YOUR heaven.) Then what? The soul stays there, happy as a clam. And then the Mormons find out about your loved ones and ZAP! They steal the soul and the soul then transfers over to the Mormon heaven?
Give me a break! Is this 2009, or 1600? It is so foolish! Mormons! Presbyterians! Catholics! Who cares? Just make life in America 2009 better. And that means keeping your nose out of others' lives, as long as they aren't harming you. And that means YOU, religious wackoes! Gays aren't hurting YOU so butt out.
To me, that is how this whole issue gets hysterical -- most Americans actually believe the mythical cloud being is real and YOUR way is the ONLY way. Grow up!
mark
· 6 months ago
You can bet Mormons would have a caniption fit if Wiccans or Voudon priestesses started performing spells on a list of their ancestors. DOING any ritual involving someone's deceased family member against the surviving family members wishes is DISRESPECTFUL!
shell
· 6 months ago
Good idea! I'm sure any "don't interfere with other religions" religion wouldn't do this, but I will! On Monday, I'll find a list of Mormons and start "baptizing" their dead in the Church of the Holey Donut.
That'll teach 'em.
mark
· 6 months ago
I'm more concerned with the here and now, their dead can rest easy. But if I pray for worms and viruses to make their way into precious genealogical records...welll goddess works in ways mysterious.
jixter
· 6 months ago
Please hold off on that until I finish my Family Tree research, mark!
LowKey
· 6 months ago
I am going to have proxy sex with Emma Smith tonight, boy isn't horny joe SMith going to be jealous.
cj
· 6 months ago
Actually, mormons could care less if people did that. The reason why is because they believe whole heartedly in freedom of religion, and they also would not believe in the power of those spells. Please read more about the mormon practice of baptism for the dead: http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_BaptDead.s...
jixter
· 6 months ago
That's right, mark! It doesn't get any more disrespectful and shameful than the Morman cult's practice of Spiritual Rape of the Dead.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
Sure, it's nutso for the Mormons to believe they can convert Jews who died in the Holecaust to Mormonism by after-death "baptism" -- but the point is, it's of a piece with their current efforts to force their insane religious beliefs on the entire state of California, lying and pouring money into the effort to deprive an entire class of citizens of their civil rights.
Chain of evidence, my friend.
shell
· 6 months ago
Yes, I get that point, which is why I separated their methods that hurt living people of 2009, and their dead baptisms.
In a message dated 05/29/09 11:14:04 Pacific Daylight Time, writes: judybrowni (unregistered) wrote, in response to shell:
Sure, it's nutso for the Mormons to believe they can convert Jews who died in the Holecaust to Mormonism by after-death "baptism" -- but the point is, it's of a piece with their current efforts to force their insane religious beliefs on the entire state of California, lying and pouring money into the effort to deprive an entire class of citizens of their civil rights.
One of Mormonism's goals is to create a theocratic nation here in the US. Zion is in Missouri and they are awaiting the second coming. They look to the day when Mormonism is the New World Order.
LowKey
· 6 months ago
It's even worse than you paint it. They believe that all of the nations will be overthrown, not just the US government. And that mormons will rule a giant theocratic world government.
I don't know why no one ever questioned Romney about his treasonous belief that the US government should be overthrown and replaced by a mormon theocrasy.
Bob
· 6 months ago
There are two women named Mary that were in Jesus' circle. One was his mother. One was Mary Magdalene. Some Mormons say that Jesus married Mary Magdalene. No Mormons say he married his mother.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
I don't give a crap about your nutso mythology, believe any stupid thing you like.
Stay out of messing with my family's civil rights, pouring money and lies into trying to control my state government, and maybe everyone will go back to not giving a fuck what you nasty assholes believe on your own time.
John Brown
· 6 months ago
Listen to the tolerance brigade...if only the world was filled with loving souls like Judy Brown...wars would end, peace would abound...
Honestly, though, Judy, I have never seen such hypocrisy and vileness in my entire life as I have seen in the posts of you and your goons...
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
Oh yeah, Mormons were the soul of tolerance when they poured tens of millions of dollars into lying commercials for Prop H8.
You're bigots, so don't be surprised when you get called on your bigotry simply because you can't stand the idea that gays and lesbians have love in their lives.
You're hypocrites -- a religious group that promotes lies and hate -- so don't be surprised when you get called on your hypocrisy.
Want to know what's vile? Forcing the bigotry in your religion on other American citizens.
Lying and lying and lying and lying and lying because the truth doesn't line up with your hate speech -- hey, isn't there a commandment about that?
Yeah, breaking that commandment, over and over and over again, that's pretty vile in my book (and also in the Bible, coincidentally.)
jixter
· 6 months ago
FULL DISCLOSURE: "John Brown" is a paid troll.
yrrjka
· 6 months ago
Isn't it funny how early on judybrowni was attacking mormons on what they believe and then when people started pointing out that everything s/he said was factually incorrect, he/she suddenly changed the argument to "I don't care what they believe, just don't force it on me." What's the matter, can't compete in the arena of logic? Moron.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
I'm "factually incorrect" and you're not perceptive enough to realize the name Judy is usually (always!) attached to a female?
Sorry, but the facts are still on my side, and lying is still (as it has been through their history) a religious precept for Mormons. (See citations at the top and middle of this thread.)
Which I guess would include your lying about my use of facts.
Which is in no way countermanded by my disinterest in the fine points of wacko Mormon beliefs.
Whether or not Mormons believe Jesus married his mother -- frankly, I don't care either way -- they lied about the effects of gay marriage on the school system in a series of ads, and funnelled tens of millions into a campaign to deny gay citizens basic civil rights.
Facts, since they have become generally known, that have likely influenced the 37% drop in Mormon favorability ratings in the American public in the last year alone.
Your wacko religious beliefs -- especially those forced on other Americans -- probably haven't helped, either.
Measure
· 6 months ago
I found the following not from McConkie, but from authorized mormon Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, Apostle Orson Hyde:
Jesus also married Mary and Martha and the other Mary at Cana of Galilee, “Whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified” (Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, 4:259; 2:82)
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
I take it back: that is a pretty skeevie belief system you Mormons have there.
Makes my skin crawl. However, stay out of everybody else's business, and you can go right on believing Jesus was an incestuous polygamist, without the rest of us being forced to reveal it to the general public.
Indigo
· 6 months ago
Praise Cthulhu! Why settle for a lesser evil?
jixter
· 6 months ago
Isn't Cthulhu one of H.P. Lovecraft's characters?
Indigo
· 6 months ago
Cthulhu has a purpose for you . . . read more Lovecraft!
jixter
· 6 months ago
How's this, instead? A friend and I drove down to Swan Point Cemetery in Providence this past February to look up his grave - and we found it with no trouble. It's a fairly well-visited place in a beautiful, old cemetery - but then, I'm kinda prejudiced; I like Providence a lot. Somebody once called it "the perfect film noir city and I think they were right.
peggy
· 6 months ago
This article is filled with inaccuracies about the Mormon faith. If you wanted to learn more about Atheism, would you speak with an Atheist or a Christian? Same holds true with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons). If you really want to learn more about it, go to the source.
tomtallis
· 6 months ago
The one thing that no one disputes is that you're a member of a hate group.
Chrissy
· 6 months ago
Yes, because Mormons have historically told every bit of honest truth about their religion.
By all means, go to the source of lies for more lies.
Your religion has earned the scorn of the American public for the lies and hate about gays and the lies and bullying tactics to interfere in another state's government, but I can understand why you wouldn't want the curtain pulled back on both your lies and your whack job beliefs.
The truth burns, doesn't it?
From authorized mormon Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, Apostle Orson Hyde:
Jesus also married Mary and Martha and the other Mary at Cana of Galilee, “Whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified” (Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, 4:259; 2:82)
Jesus as an incestuous polygamist, niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
But no more creepy, than using church funds -- and lies -- to deny civil rights to American citizens.
mark
· 6 months ago
I guess we could be generous and say they don't LIE....but they SUCK at math. Two thousand in donation isn't 190 thousand.
Mormon Math
LowKey
· 6 months ago
Hyde is referring not to mary his mother, but to mary magdalene.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
Hey, there are two Marys Jesus supposedly married in that quote from Mormon scripture.
So according to Mormon scripture JESUS MARRIED THREE WOMEN, TWO OF WHOM WERE CALLED MARY.
Yow, and that's NOT whackadoodle? What a wonderful example of marriage limited to ONE man and ONE woman, which the Mormons insist is now their goal.
However, if you read through the other comments, you'll find one from a former Mormon seminary student who avers that he was indeed taught that Jesus married his mother.
Whatever. Be as whackdoodle as you like privately, or in your own churches -- stop trying to delay the civil rights of other American citizens, and you will be left in peace to contemplate Jesus either fucking his mother, or not.
We don't give a shit. But if you're going to act as hypocritical bigoted liars, don't be surprised if you get called on your other wacky crap.
LowKey
· 6 months ago
Reading for comprehension not your strong suit?
You call me a hypocritical bigoted liar for merely setting the record straight? I am not against equal rights I have been fighting for them since before you were born. I voted against prop 8 and am a member of courage campaign. So piss off for calling me names just for pointing out an error you made in your post.
In my hundreds of posts on this blog never once have I said that mormon beliefs (or christian beliefs) were not nuts. They are. SO try reading what I actually say instead of calling me names.
Oh and the person you are referring to in your post to support your rant, is ME dumbass.
It does no one any good to tell mormons that they are crazy to beleive that Jesus had sex with his mother when no mormon has ever believed that. I went to four years of mormon seminary. I took seven religion classes at BYU, I spent two years as a mormon missionary. I ahve read more than 50 books on mormon doctrine and mormon history. I know what I am talking about and you do not. What is wrong with telling people what mormons actually beleive - that god had sex with mary, not Jesus - instead of making some bullshit up. What's wrong with telling the truth? And why attack people who tell the truth?
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
Sorry to misquote and misread you, but again, I don't care if Mormons believe Jesus married his mother, or not.
I'm more concerned, as you are, with their ongoing bigotry, and the real world consequences of that.
shell
· 6 months ago
Oh, stop it. Actually, if I wanted to know the truth about Mormons, I would NOT go to the average Mormon.
I actually had a Mormon coworker (and friend), years ago. And she told me that HONESTY was a HUGE deal with Mormons. (She loved it that her husband would NOT lie, even if it hurt anothers' feelings.)
I see MANY Mormons lying their tails off these days. Why is that? Is lying OK if you lie to a non-Mormon? Of course, this is a rhetorical question. If you are a Mormon, you would lie to me, a non-Mormon.
LowKey
· 6 months ago
OK Peggy I'll ask you some questions:
1. What was the youngest age of Smith's multiple "wives?" IOW, the youngest girl he had sex with was how old?
2. What crime was Smith convicted of in abstentia because he fled the state to avoid prosecution?
3. How many unarmed men women and children, including babies, did mormon priesthood holders slaughter on 9/11/1857?
4. Who got most of the loot that the mormons stole from the pioneers they massacred, including a fine carraige that he proudly rode around SLC in?
5. Who did Joseph Smith prophesy would be killed by an assasin (and when Smith sent his assasin he failed to kill) thus messing up a perfectly planned prophecy?
6. WHo is Oliver Granger?
7. Why did the mormons have a protestant preacher in their temple ceremony who was a hireling of Satan?
8. Why did Mormon Jesus come to the Americas after he was dead and kill millions of Native Americans for the crime of not "believing" in him?
jixter
· 6 months ago
What are the answers, LowKey?
LowKey
· 6 months ago
1. What was the youngest age of Smith's multiple "wives?" IOW, the youngest girl he had sex with was how old? 14. When he was a 38 year old married man he had sex with at least one child of his followers, Helen Mar Kimball. He had sex with one other girl who was either 14 or 15 at the time, and with several other teenage girls, including two foster daughters who he not only had sex with, but he stole their inheritance.
2. What crime was Smith convicted of in abstentia because he fled the state to avoid prosecution? Bank Fraud.
3. How many unarmed men women and children, including babies, did mormon priesthood holders slaughter on 9/11/1857? No one knows for sure - but most estimates are between 120 and 130.
4. Who got most of the loot that the mormons stole from the pioneers they massacred, including a fine carraige that he proudly rode around SLC in? Brigham Young.
5. Who did Joseph Smith prophesy would be killed by an assasin (and when Smith sent his assasin he failed to kill) thus messing up a perfectly planned prophecy? Missouri Governor Lilburn Boggs.
6. WHo is Oliver Granger? Practically no one knows who this is, but Smith prophecied that his name would be known forever. It is even recorded in mormon scriptures.
7. Why did the mormons have a protestant preacher in their temple ceremony who was a hireling of Satan? Because Mormons were virulently anti-christian. In 1990 the minister as a hireling of Satan was removed from the "unchangeable" ceremony, because many people, especially christian converts, were not comfortable with the portrayal.
8. Why did Mormon Jesus come to the Americas after he was dead and kill millions of Native Americans for the crime of not "believing" in him? Cause mormon jesus is a dick. ;-P
hrh
· 6 months ago
As long as we're recalling great moments in history of The Cult (Remember, the second "m" is silent.), I'm surprised no one has mentioned the crowning jewel in that tiara: MOUNTAIN MEADOWS!!!
shell
· 6 months ago
"Remember, the second "m" is silent."
hahahahahahaha Good one!
hrh
· 6 months ago
I didn't originate that one, but use it every time I mention The Cult. Mebbe we all could do that!
Bruce
· 6 months ago
Peggy,
You need to settle down. Have some Jello and some casserole. Its a new recipe given out last week in Relief Society.
Peggy is right, the article does have some inaccuracies but that doesn't mean the spirit of it isn't right. Mormons are pushy, They do proxy baptisms for the dead even though their living relatives ask them not to. They do believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers. They don't believe that Jesus had sex with his mom. They just believe that God the father did. Just because the articel got a few pieces of info wrong, doesn't mean that mormon beliefs aren't weird and far fetched
PS...We'd love to go to the mormon website for info about the church if the church could actually have the balls to be honest about both its history, its founder, and doctrines it once taught but have since abandoned
scottinsf
· 6 months ago
But he did have sex with his Mom according to the LDS gospel. That is fact according to their own book. They have all the trappings of a cult and I find it incredible that we even have to discuss this further.
Mormons may be pushy and obnoxious, but we will be even more so. That's one thing they didn't anticipate when they decided to dive into state legislative issues that didn't concern them.
LowKey
· 6 months ago
No scott you (and John) are 100 percent wrong about Mormons believing Jesus having sex with his mom. Jesus did not, God did.
This may sound confusing to you since you were probably under the impression that Jesus and God are the same. But mormons do not believe in the trinity.
Mormons belive that god was once a man on another planet (which had some other god ruling it) - was really good - and became a god. He then created trillions of spirit babies who needed to go and get physical bodies so he had this earth organized. Now Jesus, who was one of his spirit babies, also came to earth as his physical son. God is literally the physical father of Jesus. mary is literally his mother.
I mean that is what mormons teach, I'm not suggesting its real. ;-)
cj
· 6 months ago
Here is what a mormon apostle has to say about mormon christianity:
One of my favorite Mormon hypocricy is WOMEN were allowed to prophecize in Missouri (Smith's wife), but somehow on the trail to Utah, they dropped that Right/Rite. The wretched anti-feminist garbage of shoving Utah Mormon women on busses to go trash the ERA in Idaho, was "totally Mormon." But I can tell you NONE of my aunts or grandmother would have been shoved on a damn bus.
cj
· 6 months ago
Has anyone ever met a mormon who actually believes God had sex with Mary? I literally know hundreds of mormons, and still have yet to meet one. Here is a great link that can answer a lot of questions people might have about mormons practice of baptism for the dead, among other things: http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_BaptDead.s...
LowKey
· 6 months ago
Yes cj, I have met hundreds. It was what I was taught in seminary too.
iamse7en
· 6 months ago
BS.
You aren't taught that in seminary. But, how else is a baby created? Did God snap his fingers and BAM, a fetus appeared in Mary's belly? Or did the stork visit Mary's house?
Use your head - it's quite simple. How can Jesus claim Elohim as His father, if he wasn't, literally, his FATHER?
LowKey
· 6 months ago
Yes I was taught in seminary that god had sex with mary, and yes that has been a mormon beleif since the days of brigham Young.
But you admit that it is correct in the rest of your post. Do you like calling people liars and then making sure you prove yourself to be a liar in your own post?
Jesus. if he existed, had a father. That's why he was known as Joshua bar Joseph - cause Joseph was his dad. The virgin birth thing was invented later because Mithras (and other mytholgical creatures)was also supposedly born of a virgin. So the Jesus cult co-opted their mythologies
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
And while you're at it: how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
As long as you're discussing mythology.
Back here in the reality-based community we don't care if you believe Jesus fucked his mother, or not.
We do care when you try to force the American people into living your bigoted religious beliefs, thru lies and bullying.
iamse7en
· 6 months ago
Yeah, the Mormons are forcing gays to not have sexual relations with each other....
Uhhh. NO. Prop 8 was only about defining the word, marriage. Sorry to break it to you, but that institution was created by christianity. We don't care what people do with each other. We DO care about how they are trying to change OUR word, OUR institution. They have the exact same rights as married people. Prop 8 wasn't about rights, it was about the definition of MARRIAGE.
Vico
· 6 months ago
Marriage was created by Christianity. Hoo, boy, what a whopper. But then, if someone believes God had sex with Mary, I guess it's not too farfetched.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
The institution of marriage existed long before Christianity (or Judiasm), and in fact, Christianity didn't meddle in marriage, or even consider it a sacrement -- considering it a secular affair -- until the 3rd century or so AD.
Although early Christians did hold some sort of same-sex committment ceremony for men centuries before they also adopted the ceremony between men and women.
The word marriage dates back only to the 14th century middle English, from the French marier, making it not YOUR word so much as that of the French of the middle ages, perhaps.
If you want to go back to the Old Testament, it extols marriage as polygamist as the desert tribes of Jews sought to increase their numbers, but I thought Mormons and other Christians had disavowed that sort of marriage.
Using the word "marriage" to mask the bigotry is usual for Mormons and other whack job so-called Christians, but the reality is denying civil rights to gays has real world consequences. For instance, my brother who has been with his partner of 30 years, can't be signed onto his partner's health insurance, should he lose his job.
If either of them dies, they risk losing their house, because, unlike a "married" couple, neither can collect Social Security benefits if the other dies.
Why don't you just admit it's not about the word "marriage" -- which belongs to whoever can say, or spell it -- but that you hate that my brother has had love in his life for 30 years.
Oh yeah, and my sister, the doctor (better education than you, saving lives since 1975) is also gay, and with her partner over 30 years.
That's right: you, bigot. That's the real word involved here: bigotry.
cj
· 6 months ago
That is the biggest bunch of bull I have ever heard. Who has ever taught you that in seminary? Please name names, I would like to hear with my own ears any mormon profess this belief. For decades I have heard many many mormon teachers and never did I hear anyone profess of having that belief!
LowKey
· 6 months ago
Brother Summers was his name.
And just because you are an ignorant little kid does not change reality son.
If you had a shred of decency in you would apologize for calling me a liar.
But I doubt you have any.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
Like I said, they can believe their own nutball theology or not -- all I (and the American public) care about is whether or not they try to force the bigotry part of their religion on the rest of us.
"Proposition 8 . . . Mormons contributed more than half of the campaign’s $40 million war chest [as well as "door knocking"] The Washington Post notes that the Mormon Church was involved with an anti-marriage equality campaign in Hawaii in 1998 and spent $400,000 of church money but requested that the Catholic Church take the lead when it came to the public image of the campaign. This may have something to do with Mormons’ overall low favorability ratings with the American public in general, which declined to 37 percent last year..."
"This is a campaign of bigotry, and the institution must be held accountable for it in the court of public opinion."
Your tone is ridiculous, and your facts aren't straight. Nowhere in Mormon doctrine does it mention that Jesus slept with his mother, Mary. There ARE some statements from older apostles, that Jesus' FATHER slept with Mary. Get your facts straight - that's a HUGE difference. Sex is the only way a baby is created.
Catholics pray for the dead - how would you feel if a Catholic was praying over your dead grandfather's soul for admittance into heaven? What's the difference with Mormons? If you think Mormonism is just a big joke, with no truth or significance to their actions, why in the hell do you care if they perform an ordinance for the dead? Steal souls? You are clearly a ignorant bigot, who uses false facts to make Mormons look bad.
Why don't you write about blacks, and how they "murdered love in an entire state?" Almost 80% of blacks voted FOR prop 8. I'm sure many of them were involved in the prop 8 campaign. Or would that not bode well with all your liberal friends? Is it just much more fun to blame it on the Mormons? Only 2% (2 percent!) of California is Mormon... Obviously, if you want gay marriage to be accepted in California, you've got a much bigger problem on your hands than attacking 2% of the demographic.
I'd love to hear your response, or never read your worthless posts ever again.
shell
· 6 months ago
What a surprise! MORE lies from a Mormon! I'm shocked!
1. Sex isn't the ONLY way a baby is created. Hint: it results in a direct clone of you. (Check out a biology textbook sometime. I am sure Mormons don't teach this science, but it is true. No, it's not common, but it HAS happened.)
2. Catholics praying for the dead. Are you THAT stupid to believe that is the same? The difference, of course, is that Catholics don't pray for a dead one without a family member requesting it. And "praying for" is quite different than "stealing their souls."
3. No one has to do anything to make Mormons look bad. Mormons do it quite nicely on their own. And you are helping a lot. Just in this one answer, you have alienated many Americans who knew practically nothing about Mormons. All they know is you. Congrats!
4. I live in CA -- do you? There is no way in hell that "almost 80% of blacks voted FOR prop 8." We went to a couple of protests before the election and the only blacks there were protesting AGAINST Prop 8. The main group protesting FOR it were imbecilic, misogynistic eastern-European immigrants who couldn't even vote. And they were whiter than I am.
5. I doubt only 2% of Californians are Mormons, but it doesn't matter. Millions of dollars was shipped in from Salt Lake City. So what does it matter? Keep your bigotry in Utah -- we have our own state and don't need YOUR bigotry.
TRUTH: If only CALIFORNIANS were allowed to advertise, Prop 8 would have failed in a landslide. Other states: keep your bigotry in your own ugly state.
And why, if you are not gay or agree with anything they say, do you post here? The Mormons pay you to? You can reach a higher heaven for doing so? Don't tell me you are doing it to save souls. If so, you are doing a lousy job.
Despair
· 6 months ago
"TRUTH: If only CALIFORNIANS were allowed to advertise, Prop 8 would have failed in a landslide. " --------------------
So basically, what you're saying, is that the Californians are easily warped into voting for whatever issue has the most advertising dollars.
Stupid Sheep.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
No, we're saying Mormons lie, as a religious policy.
It's called Lying for the Lord and you'll find citations for the history and policy, as documented by Mormons and Mormon hierarchy both near the top and at the middle of this thread.
A blizzard of lying Mormon funded ads, run multiple times an hour for weeks on end -- I live in Los Angeles, and if I hadn't known the truth, even I might have been swayed by those lies, repeated.
However, since the Mormon lies have been revealed, recent polls have registered the swing back to acceptance for gay marriage in California (as well as in other parts of the country.)
Mormon lies have done gay rights supporters the favor of revealing how base and low the opposition is.
The arc of history moves toward justice.
shell
· 6 months ago
Yes, I am saying that. But not only Californians -- ALL Americans. There is a reason there is advertising -- it works.
In a message dated 05/29/09 21:08:12 Pacific Daylight Time, writes: So basically, what you're saying, is that the Californians are easily warped into voting for whatever issue has the most advertising dollars.
shell
· 6 months ago
And you can say STUPID SHEEP all you like, but you are ignorant if you think advertising doesn't work. I guess you are GAY. Because with most of the country, they not only aren't gay, but they have no close family members they know are gay. And those people don't pay attention that much to gay issues.
mark
· 6 months ago
African Americans supported prop 8 by 58%, Latinos were 50/50, and Asians voted against prop 8. It wasn't race which determined whether someone supported prop 8 it was elderly and highly religious people of ALL COLORS who supported prop 8.
iamse7en
· 6 months ago
It was 70% of blacks that voted for prop 8. 58%? Where did you get that?
The point is, that Mormons are being singled out, when a large majority of blacks supported the proposition. I applaud them for voting yes, but it just shows the hypocrisy when you only single out mormons.
Money doesn't buy votes - we've seen that in elections and proposition measures.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
As the saying goes, you're titled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.
"A new study on California’s Proposition 8 voting trends released Tuesday found that far fewer African-Americans voted to pass the gay marriage ban than the 70% suggested by exit polling and concluded that race was not the most significant factor affecting people’s vote for or against marriage equality.
After conducting in-depth analysis of election returns from five key California counties and using census data to estimate the racial makeup of the voters in those counties, researchers found that between 57% and 59% of African-Americans voted in favor of Proposition 8, which amended the state's constitution to prohibit same-sex marriage. .."
Get it: exit polls, are different from actual votes.
And, unfortunately, money has and does buy votes in the American system of government, whether through advertising or other funding.
But you're just a kid, is my guess, school is out for the day, and annoying grownups with fact-free rants on the internet is an alternate use of your time to annoying the neighbors door-to-door with the same uninformed tripe.
You're simply repeating talking points fed to you. You might want to research what the grownups here have been telling you -- we don't always provide citations simply because it's information generally known to anyone who has been paying attention to the news recently.
mark
· 6 months ago
Thanks for the back up Judybrowni
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
Nothing like a basic Google search to find facts that refute lies.
Just how stupid do these people think we are?
Duh, we're on the internet, so, duh, we know how to use it to look up stuff. Basic stuff, you know, facts and stuff.
UncleBucky
· 6 months ago
Thanks for the due diligence, Judy.
Ugh.
UncleBucky
· 6 months ago
Yeah, but just like iamse7en, ya need to cite references on yer stats. Otherwise it is just an "edit war".
But I get ya, I believe your post is more correct than that Mormon blog minder iamse7en.
Ugh.
Chrissy
· 6 months ago
Coming soon to a Mormon ward near you and your local porn video store:
The Erotic Adventures of Heavenly Father
Starring Mary mother of Jesus as the married woman who couldn't say no. Featuring Joseph as the guillible husband who would belive any person visiting his wife is god. Also featuring, Mother In Heaven, who likes to watch.
Music by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir singing:
Cum, Cum, Ye Saints
scottinsf
· 6 months ago
I love hearing about these other crazy mormon views.
Thank you!
iamse7en
· 6 months ago
What's crazier? To believe that Jesus' mortal body was created with the snap of God's fingers, or via same process that has created mortal bodies for thousands of years, for all species?
To any sane, rational person, your explanation is a LOT crazier.
tomtallis
· 6 months ago
No sane, rational person believes either proposition. In fact, no sane, rational person believes in your stupid religion.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
It seems you're the authority here: so, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
Or back to the reality-based world: how many Mormons can lie, until their favorability drops 37 percent in one year with the American public.
Chrissy
· 6 months ago
Coming soon to a Mormon ward near you and your local porn video store:
The Erotic Adventures of Heavenly Father
Starring Mary mother of Jesus as the married woman who couldn't say no. Featuring Joseph as the guillible husband who would belive any person visiting his wife is god.
Music by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir singing:
Cum, Cum, Ye Saints
UncleBucky
· 6 months ago
Cute. You make a nice sockpupplet.
Ugh.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
Like I said, Mormons can believe whatever nutball theology they like -- all I (and the American public) care about is whether or not they try to force their bigotry and religion on the rest of us.
"Proposition 8 . . . Mormons contributed more than half of the campaign’s $40 million war chest [as well as "door knocking"]
"The Washington Post notes that the Mormon Church was involved with an anti-marriage equality campaign in Hawaii in 1998 and spent $400,000 of church money but requested that the Catholic Church take the lead when it came to the public image of the campaign. This may have something to do with Mormons’ overall low favorability ratings with the American public in general, which declined to 37 percent last year..."
"This is a campaign of bigotry, and the institution must be held accountable for it in the court of public opinion."
Oh, and "it's the black folks fault for Prop 8" theory has also been thoroughly discredited.
iamse7en
· 6 months ago
Last time I checked, it's the actual VOTES that passed prop 8, not the amount of donations.
If money bought votes, we would have seen Forbes as our president.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
No sense talking sense to the senseless.
However -- and then I must go back to the reality-based world -- as has been well-documented: millions of dollars of Mormon money was used to create a blizzard of last-minute ads which LIED about the effects of gay marriage, lies frightening enough to sway a small enough of a segment of the public into voting for Prop 8.
As the Mormon lies have been discredited, polls have once again swung toward the legalization of gay marriage in California, as well as elsewhere in the United States.
(And Mormon favorability has dropped by 37 percent with the American public, who generally don't like being lied to.)
Your arguments are a primary example of Reductio ad absurdum (Latin: "reduction to the absurd.")
Look it up.
Chrissy
· 6 months ago
Isn't just like Mormons to immediately revert to their racist ways by trying to blame Prop 8 passage on ... black people.
samiinh
· 6 months ago
When you reach the highest celestial heaven, do you get to name your own planet, or does the Prophet do that for you?
tomtallis
· 6 months ago
It was the televised lies that money paid for and the illegitimate way that the money was raised; or do you deny that in the stakes in California, members were ordered to make their tithes to the Yes on H8 campaign for a period of time? Also, your church is a hate group and ought to be labeled as such. Keep your fucking superstitions out of other peoples lives.
UncleBucky
· 6 months ago
And the votes were not cast on the basis of the facts. They were (sadly) cast on the basis of fear of the boogie man, hatred of the other, and ignorance promulgated by millions of dollars and millions of footsteps of LDS political workers.
Ugh.
UncleBucky
· 6 months ago
The LDS Church, based on their political spending in Prop 8, need to be taxed. Ahhh bled dry, I mean... hahaha.
As does any other "business" masquerading as a "Church".
Ugh.
UncleBucky
· 6 months ago
ATTENTION. Above post by iamse7en is part of an LDS Mission to Americablog. iamse7en is just another Mormon blog minder for this shift. He gets replaced by Nate, Josh, Evan or some other blog minder in a white shirt, magic underwear and dockers (his shoes are off, because he was walking a neighborhood to poison the minds of the innocents).
Ugh.
mark
· 6 months ago
For a good laugh for gays try out Deseret News,,,,they CENSOR any gay comments except this one guy nicknamed Vince. He's a docile little apologist gay.
Dave of the Jungle
· 6 months ago
I vow to stop mentioning the MOUNTAIN MEADOWS MASSACRE.
samiinh
· 6 months ago
Why? People need to know what this cult once did. If they did it once, they can do it again. These are sick, evil people. The goal is a New World Order, a theocracy run by the Prophet and his 12 Apostles of insanity.
Ben Dover
· 6 months ago
There is nothing cuter than a happy, well fed lion.
The Mormon
· 6 months ago
The messages is subtle, but aren't you essentially lauding the murdering of Christians (or Mormons)? Is it tolerable to speak this way about Jews? Blacks? How about Homosexuals?
This the hypocracy of intolerance for intolerance, hate for hate. The shift from dialog to death. From resolution to ruin.
Ben Dover
· 6 months ago
The filthy Mormon Cult spent hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars, hours and hours of lies and destroyed thousands and thousands of lives with your vile hatred and P8.
I couldn't care less what you think.
Your cult is now reaping what it has sown.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
Oh yeah, because Christians are being thrown to lions, all the time in these parts. No? Then when? Maybe -- and that's a big maybe -- 2,000 years ago in Rome. No historical record of this, but still.
Versus the very real deaths and assaults dealt to GLBT in the here and now.
"In the United States, the FBI reported that 15.6% of hate crimes reported to police in 2004 were founded on perceived sexual orientation. Sixty-one percent of those attacks were against gay men, 14% against lesbians, 2% against heterosexuals and 1% against bisexuals, while attacks against LGBT people at large made up 20%.[20]
The FBI reported that for 2006, hate crimes against gays increased to 16%, from 14% in 2005, as percentage of total documented hate crimes across the U.S.[21] "
Such as the 15 year old boy shot in his school after announcing he was gay, oh, last year.
And who's the biggest fomenter for hate against gays? Who would have guessed it? The so-called Christians.
Maybe not pulling the trigger themselves, always, but always yammering on about how sick, twisted and undeserving of basic civil rights those gays are.
Who just happen to get themselves murdered at a higher rate than Christians or straights.
I am sick and tired of the Christian victim syndrome. When teenager boys routinely arm themselves with baseball bats to go beat up the Christians on Saturday night, then we can talk.
Until then you're a hypocritical, bigoted asshole.
The Mormon
· 6 months ago
Judy, are you always this friendly? I think you missed the point entirely.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
I've missed none of the points Mormons have made in these last couple years -- that they're willing to lie and try to skirt U.S. law in order to funnel millions of dollars into keeping my brother and sister second class citizens.
That they're willing to lie and funnel millions of dollars into forcing their bigoted religious views on the rest of the American public.
That they're willing to play the victim while victimizing other American citizens.
Maybe individual Mormons aren't hateful, but the actions of thousands of Mormons have been to promote hate.
Believe me, I've missed none of that -- and apparently another 37% of the American population has caught on to Mormon hate actions in the last year alone.
Clean up your own church before you have the bloody nerve to criticize anyone else.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
I also haven't forgotten the lies and the millions Mormons funnelled into defeating the ERA.
Fuck you big time for decades of lies and bigotry.
You want a friend? Try not hanging with and supporting bigoted liars.
UncleBucky
· 6 months ago
I am guessing that Judy, like me, is merely meeting force with equal force. That is not revenge, merely maintaining our distance from the Mormon cult.
So don't spin it, Mormon blog minder, spin ON it.
Ugh.
shell
· 6 months ago
Interesting! This one line answered a question for me. For years, I have heard that Mormons were NOT Christians. My Mormon friend said Mormons WERE Christians. But you cleared it up!
"... the murder of Christians (or Mormons)?"
Thanks for admitting Mormons are NOT Christians.
ElGuapo
· 6 months ago
They're not mainstream Christians, but they do self-identify as Christian, as your Mormon friend did. I think it's hilarious that some so-called Christians don't want to let the Mormons in their club. What good is a religion if it doesn't divide people and give them a reason to dislike each other? Sigh.
UncleBucky
· 6 months ago
Mormons are not Christian. Not that there is anything wrong with being a Christian.
Mormons are a crazy quilt of polytheism and science fiction.
And I would love to see the rapture of the Mormons, and don't let the atmosphere slap 'em in the ass as they go into low earth orbit until the Mothership comes to take them to their own private Golub or Altair IV or whatever...
Ugh.
mark
· 6 months ago
I wouldn't want lions to eat Mormons, but I'm a cat lover. I will volunteer to pack the bags of any Mormon, to hasten the RAPTURE, the sooner you hateful folks leave OUR planet, the happier we'll both be.
Tim
· 6 months ago
I don't know where you get your "facts" about Mormons, but your article is full of errors. Where do you get the idea that Mormons believe Jesus slept with a woman--Mary nontheless?
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
Where do we get that idea?
From Mormon scripture, that's where.
From authorized mormon Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, Apostle Orson Hyde:
Jesus also married Mary and Martha and the other Mary at Cana of Galilee, “Whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified” (Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, 4:259; 2:82)
Jesus as an incestuous polygamist, niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
But no more creepy, than using church funds -- and lies -- to deny civil rights to American citizens.
(There's been some debate in this thread from Mormons that neither of those Marys were Jesus' mother -- even by that standard Mormon scripture paints Jesus as a polygamist -- ick. And discusses Jesus' "seed" -- double ick.)
I'm reminded of the famous quote from Adlai Stevenson on Republicans, "If they'll stop lying about us, we'll stop telling the truth about them."
Got that, Mormons -- you stop lying, and maybe we won't be forced to tell the icky truth about your religion. (Because the truth about your religion is more damning than your lies about gays.)
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
Oh and by the by, a former Mormon seminary student further down the thread also agrees he was taught that icky scripture, even names the "Brother" who taught it.
Ick, icky ick ick.
My brother's 30 year loving relationship with his partner Larry is clean as the driven snow in comparison to Mormon scripture and lies.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
Hey, I was wrong about that "former Mormon seminary student" (misread his post), but that doesn't change the fact that my brother Bill's loving relationship of over 30 years is still as clean as the driven snow in comparison to the Mormon religious precept for lying, and the icky idea that Jesus was a polygamist.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
Well, I've wasted enuf time today refuting bigoted Mormon lies and obfuscations, so ta tah.
You can send out more of your robots to litter these threads with misinformation with out-right lies, but the fact remains: in this last year alone, Mormon favorability went down 37% in polls of the American people.
Your lies have been caught out, and the American people don't like liars, hypocrites and bigots.
You may delay civil rights for the GBLT, but you won't stop them. So in the end, your lies and millions will be wasted.
Thank God for that.
UncleBucky
· 6 months ago
Judy, I call them Mormon Blog-Minders. There is a room in a basement without windows where the Mormon Blog-Minders watch all the progressive blogs and newgroups and then they do their own version of "edit wars" as do members of the other high tech cult, Scientologists. I wonder, should Mormons be banned by Wikipedia in the same way as was done with the Thetans?
Good on, Judy, your work is appreciated.
Ugh.
ElGuapo
· 6 months ago
Judy, I don't doubt Orson Hyde said this. There's all kinds of wacky stuff in the Journal of Discourses. The problem with your claim, though, is that few people in Mormonism even know who Orson Hyde was, and they would not agree with what he said here. There are much better avenues to take if you want to show the falsity of Mormonism's truth claims. Telling Mormons what they believe is stupid and pointless, IMHO.
natepetedmb
· 6 months ago
This has to be the most retarded article ever written. Its author obviously has mental issues. Good job making up a bunch of dumb shit and then stating how it must be fact because you googled it. Go pop a couple anti depressants you instable moron.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
As usual, Mormons hate having the facts revealed about their religion, their bigotry, their lies and their hypocrisy.
Scroll down below, or do a simple web search for news and analysis, and you'll find the facts about Mormon lies, religion, bigotry and hypocrisy.
Or don't.
But Mormon favorability with the American public has dropped 37% in this year alone, so they're well-aware of the truth, even if you'd like to deny it.
Thank the good Lord.
So lie away, throw slurs and insults when you can't refute the truth, but you've been found out.
Mormons can continue to lie and throw millions of dollars more down the drain in the attempt to delay civil rights for gays, but the arc of history moves toward justice.
And the American public doesn't like liars, hypocrites or bigots, so good luck with all that, honey.
natepetedmb
· 6 months ago
JudyBrowni you have mental problems.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
Is that all you can manage -- yet another slur and lie?
How Mormon of you!
Isadore
· 6 months ago
Screw the mormoms - you can't argue with idiots.
judybrowni
· 6 months ago
True dat.
However, for those of you without the patience to scroll down, here's repeat info on the Mormon theological precept Lying for the Lord:
"Noted LDS historians D. Michael Quinn and B. Carmon Hardy have written compassionately and humanely as they describe the history of Mormonism, and the use of deception as a useful tool to manage the minds of its adherents and public perception. "
The previous is from an article on the history and policy of lying in the Mormon Church written by Ken Clark for MormonThink.com.
Ken worked full time for the LDS Church Education System (CES) for 27 years. He also served as a bishop; "a calling he enjoyed as much as full time instructor and Coordinator for the Church Education System. " http://www.mormonthink.com/lying.htm
If that's too academic a format for you, here's a link with a lineup for numerous sources on Lying for the Lord:
Including a summing up that goes a long way in explaining the why for of the Mormon hypocrisy involved in the lying ads they used to promote Prop 8: "Lying for the Lord refers to the practice of lying to protect the image of and belief in the Mormon religion, a practice which Mormonism itself fosters in various ways. From Joseph Smith's denial of having more than one wife, to polygamous Mormon missionaries telling European investigators that reports about polygamy in Utah were lies put out by "anti-Mormons" and disgruntled ex-members, to Gordon B. Hinckley's dishonest equivocation on national television over Mormon doctrine, Mormonism's history seems replete with examples of lying. "
"Common members see such examples as situations where lying is justified. For the Mormon, loyalty and the welfare of the church are more important than the principle of honesty, and plausible denials and deception by omission are warranted by an opportunity to have the Mormon organization seen in the best possible light. This is part of the larger package of things that lead many to describe Mormonism as a cult. "
"Lying for the lord" is part of Mormonism's larger deceptive mainstreaming tactics, and conversion numbers would drastically lower if important Mormon beliefs were fully disclosed to investigators."
Your bro is a lucky guy. I don't have a sister, but if I did, I would want her to be like you ;)
Your support of him (and the rest of us) is fierce. Thank you.
(Of course the truth is on your side -- and that helps!)
UncleBucky
· 6 months ago
Yes Judy, this is the kind of documentation that puts daylight on the temple work done in dark basements by the LDS...
Thx.
UncleBucky
· 6 months ago
Diagnosis at a distance? Are you doing a Bill Frist?
I think you need to document your analysis, bub.
Ugh.
UncleBucky
· 6 months ago
Mmm hmmm... Another Mormon Blog-Minder chimes in....
Ugh.
trinu
· 6 months ago
Back in high school, some macho jerk started blabbing on about how he was always afraid I would hit on him or something because I'm gay. A (Mormon) girl walked right up to him, and told him that he was too ugly to have that problem and that I had better taste than to fall for him. PS John the fundamentalist Mormons are the ones advocating polygamy. They are NOT part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Many mainstream Mormons have taken the lost boys into their homes after the fundamentalist Mormons kicked them out with just the clothes on their backs (gotta have fewer males than females if you want to have that many wives)
Flipper
· 6 months ago
Jesus did not marry Mary his mother. Mormons have simply pointed out that some Gnostic gospels such as Phillip's gospel seem to hint he may have been married to Mary Magdeline and others. We are talking about the woman who first saw the resurrected Christ not his mother. I have a suggestions for non Mormons. Why don't you first become familiar with Christianity in general before you attack Mormons. Mormons are not idiots. They are more educated than Christians in general. Mormons have just gone beyond the bible and looked deeper. We are not infallible but we do not believe in having a closed cannon like the Evangelicals. I think it is fine to read negative comments about Mormonism as long as you read positive rebuttals from Mormons. Utah Lighthouse by the Tanners is a good negative site and Jeff Lindsay Mormon is a good positive site. Read them both and then decide for yourself.
UncleBucky
· 6 months ago
K. I read the original sources (BOM, D&C, POGP). I have decided for myself.
My take on the entire corpus: ROTFL.
Ugh.
Rapture
· 6 months ago
Mormonism's founder, Joseph Smith was lynched/beaten to death by a town of angry residents in protest of his nefarious appetite for underage girls in their town. I guess that makes him a martyr in Mormonspeak, a child molester and pedophile in 21st century law. In the early 80's there were two interesting coincidences. The median income of Black Americans rose and with that rise, they were permitted to "tythe" to the Mormon church, but not to enter into its holy of holies. They believe that Blacks bare the "mark of Cain". My underpants are holy too. (lol)
UncleBucky
· 6 months ago
Regarding underpants. I have to ask. What do mormon cultists do about skid marks? Who washes the magic skid marks?
I wanna know.
Ugh.
LowKey
· 6 months ago
Spray n wash silly. ;-P
Brian Rogers
· 6 months ago
Wow. I never knew, that as a Mormon, we did all those terribly things. Oh, wait. We don't.
Obviously you have not idea about LDS theology. Sad, truely sad.
LowKey
· 6 months ago
You don't know much about your own religion Brian. most mormons are just like you. I mean if you did, you wouldn't be one anymore.
John made only one mistake with his mormon theology, because he was not aware that mormons believe do not believe in the trinity and think that jesus and god are two separate people. I mean not a lot of non-mormon know that mormon theology holds that god was once a man like us, living on another planet, who then later became a god. And then fathered Jesus with Mary. When John saw the mormon teaching about God being the physical father of Jesus, in his mind Jesus IS god, so its an understandable mistake.
UncleBucky
· 6 months ago
Right, lowkey. One of the tenets of Pauline "Christianity" that was set in concrete in the 4th century was a triune god, three persons in one god. I myself do not subscribe to it. However, I am not any kind of fool to fall for the nonsense promulgated in the BOM by any of these Mormon blog minders. They are a blend of polytheism and science fiction. Stories no different in basic theology than Vergil's Aeneid, Homer's Odyssey, or any of Edith Hamilton's summaries.
Jesus is the brother (or at least kin) of the Devil? What balderdash. It makes no sense. And it is clearly in the original papers of the LDS, many of which were put into the memory hole (gracias a Orwell).
So, these folks come here and try to spin dry their nonsense. We are just too well-educated to fall for it.
Ugh.
ann
· 6 months ago
If this is what passes for well-educated, then god save us all. You are a fount of ignorance and a legend exclusively in your own mind.
UncleBucky
· 6 months ago
You never read D&C, POGP and the old BOM with an outsider's view? You read it while the electronic coil in your neck was broadcasting your instructions? God was once a man? Men can become gods in their own planets? Uhh?? Polygamy good UNTIL money gets taken away (1896), but everything else is the literal word of your tin-plate god? GIVE ME A BREAK.
You belong to a cult that steals souls in damp, dark basements without windows.
Ugh.
ann
· 6 months ago
In addition to your comments being stupid, they are completely false. As if that matters to you. You are probably at church right now worshipping your god, Perez Hilton. Pathetic, no talent hack that he is. And as a writer you are his equal. No one will come after you - you apparently don't have a soul as well as a brain.
UncleBucky
· 6 months ago
Mr. Brian R. is a none other than a Mormon Blog Minder. He is probably still on shift as I write. Let's see what his supervisor in the call center tells him. Let's see how much of the email from his stake president he plagiarizes.
Ugh.
ElGuapo
· 6 months ago
Can I clarify a couple of things? Mormons aren't trying to steal souls when they do ordinances for ancestors. It's well understood among the members that a deceased person would still have to "accept" their Mormon baptism for it to have any validity. I'm not going to tell you *not* to be offended by this if it really seems that egregious to you, but to me it's much ado about nothing. If they want to spend their Friday date night sitting through lame temple ordinances, I say let 'em.
Oh, and Jesus didn't sleep with his mother in Mormon doctrine. It was God the Father ("Elohim") who fathered Jesus, and Mormons believe they are separate beings. Some Mormons apparently distance themselves altogether from this idea that God had sex with Mary, but I was raised Mormon and that's certainly how I understood it.
Anyway I get that this was mostly tongue in cheek, but I hate to see Mormonism misrepresented because there are tons of questioning Mormons out there who see stuff like this and conclude that the web is full of anti-Mormon lies, so they just trust what they learned at church all the more.
Rapture
· 6 months ago
Tax em because they have violated their tax-exempt status by swaying elections in California. These activities are violations of their license to exist as a tax exempt church. Whatever happened to the gold tablets? Joseph Smith "lost them"??? How do you lose 700 lbs of solid gold? Wackademie. Christianity is way bizarre. Drinking blood and eating human flesh, uggghhhh . Time to tax all religion and get out of our financial crisis.
Eileen
· 6 months ago
Its not surprising the Mormons are losing favor, when people like this author throw so much misinformation around about them. For instance, there is no truth to the erroneous claim that the LDS believe Jesus married Mary, his mother. Also, no wing of Mormons are trying to get polygamy legalized - that's a group that broke off from the Mormon church decades ago. And while some well-meaning but misguided souls had post-humous baptizms arranged for the people mentioned, it was against the rules, and was negated as soon as it was discovered.
ann
· 6 months ago
This author seems to be well qualified to speak on the matter of hate. It would appear he has his Ph.D in hate. 90% of what he has written is false and I think intentionally so. How about if I throw around made up information about gays. Gay sex causes the ebola virus, gays are responsible for the Holocaust - just as a couple of examples of rash, hysterical falsehoods. If you can tell the truth then just shut up.
Ron
· 5 months ago
"A Great Nation Deserves the Truth" - But you won't find any truth in John Avarosis' rantings.
John, your accusations reek of hatred towards the Mormons. Is it because they condemn your homosexual behavior?
Mormon Scientist
· 5 months ago
Look people, we all have different beliefs about things and some people (including myself) believe things that really sound sensational. All religions have parts that just sound wacky... Catholics praying to all sorts of strange patron saints over things like the WWW, Muslim fanatic groups killing themselves to please God and receive a saucy reward in the afterlife, Hindus with their many Gods... some with multiple sex organs. Mormons believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers, that people may be baptized by proxy for the dead, and that there have been times when husbands should take more than one wife. Sure, I admit my beliefs sound wacky... but so do yours!
I have many friends who are not Mormons, my closest friends include an Atheist, Muslim, Protestant, Catholic, and Buddhist. I have the highest of respect for their beliefs, and they respect mine. Why? Because both sides have taken the time to gather accurate information about the other's beliefs. I love when a person challenges my personal beliefs with a legitimate, thought out objection. These things cause both parties to seriously consider their beliefs! If my beliefs ring true, then I have nothing to fear by challenging them. If, on the other hand, my beliefs are false then challenging them is what will get me on track... get it?
This article is not a well researched or thought out objection to Mormonism, and I am sure that the author knows it. The reality of Mormon doctrine is quite different then the way he portrayed it. The author twisted Mormon beliefs to cause a particular emotional reaction at the expense of accuracy. John, why? I respect your disagreement with Mormon beliefs, and understand why you might feel that way. However if you are going to publish your disagreement, have the respect for others to present accurate arguments! Believe me, I have been a Mormon long enough and I have read enough to know that if someone wants to disagree with our beliefs there are legitimate theologically grounded arguments to do so! Lets keep our arguments based in reality, so that all may critically review their beliefs in honesty... rather than trying to rile people up with sensationalized tabloid versions of others beliefs.
All Comments
And then there were all the revelations about Mormon beliefs that were aired as a result of Prop 8. My favorite is that Mormons believe African Americans have the "mark of Cain", but if they lead a righteous life, Heavenly Father will lighten their skin.
As for Evangelicals, my favorite line to get rid of them when they come knocking on the door is to interrupt their sales pitch and ask with a big smile, "Oh, is this about God?". When they answer in the affirmative, look suddenly sad for them and say, "Oh, I'm sorry. We already have one." Then slam the door.
He got that confuddled dog-look on his face that dogs sometimes get and his mouth was hanging there, open, as I walked away.
I still chuckle every time I think of it. I've never been known for being particularly quick on the uptake but, on that occasion, I out-did myself.
Good stuff, RitornaVincitor!
That was more than a dozen years ago, tho, and they'd get a bigger piece of my ire today.
But I live in a fairly "liberal" neighborhood, and I guess the Mormons gave up on us long ago.
Or had too many doors slammed in their faces.
P. 184-185, Facing the Consequences.
Joseph Smith’s “Revelation” regarding polygamy, …became the cornerstone of the faith: “If plurality of marriage [polygamy] is not true….then marriage for eternity is not true, and your faith is all vain, and all the sealing ordinances and powers pertaining to marriages for eternity are vain, worthless, good for nothing; for as sure as one is true the other also must be true.” Orson Pratt, an original member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles.
• Unfortunately for the credibility of Mormonism, the entire structure is built upon Joseph Smith alone and either stands of falls with him.
• The very Apostles and Presidents who rightly declared that anyone who renounced polygamy ought logically to renounce all of Joseph Smith’s other “revelations” and Mormonism itself.
• This leaves the sincere Mormon in a perplexing dilemma. The key to his “exaltation” (godhead), the “new and everlasting covenant,” the most important “revelation” ever given to man, the very essence of Mormonism.
• Today’s Mormons affirm that polygamy is still all that Joseph Smith claimed, but that the Church is temporarily excommunicating and banding as criminals any Mormons who practice it to prevent wholesale persecution.
• If polygamy is indeed the very heart of the “restored gospel of Jesus Christ,” the key to salvation, then this good news of exaltation through polygamy ought to be preached to the whole world at all cost.
http://leavingtsccbehind.blogspot.com/2008/04/w...
http://www.mazeministry.com/mormonism/polygamy/...
Does it ever occur to you, you Mormons aren't authorities on ANYTHING? So, you just need to sit down and shut up.
Any Mormon claiming that the church no longer teaches or believes in polygamy is grossly ignorant of their religion. The church doesn't go out of their way to emphasize it, but it is still very much a doctrine. Of course, like in most religions, most Mormons haven't read their scriptures, don't really know what their church believes, and only know whatever they happen to absorb while not napping in church which is whatever the church wants them to now.
Two thoughts come to mind: Someone needs to set up an internet church that virtually dead-dunks all the dead mormon souls, maybe into the church of human secularist or something like that! Mormons only pay attention when we start pushing right back at them!
Second, stop whining about being 'persecuted' when you're simply getting the consequences of all your stupid choices, Mormons! Sheesh!! You and the other religious fanatics in America need to grow up and reap what you sow like adults, instead of whining like crybabies just because you can't force everyone else do to your will!
Keep it up!
If the IRS had any balls at all, LDS' tax exemption would have been revoked long ago.
Read any of this nonsense (remember, the KJV Bible has been edited by them, and you can't trust their versions).... and you wonder if they are on a different planet than we are.
http://scriptures.lds.org/
I'm glad I am on the outside looking in. I have at least 10% discretionary income AT MY DISCRETION. Hehe...
Ugh.
For example if you are a mormon, even one who no longer beleives or attends, and one of your children decides to wed in the Mormon Temple (and they are under enormous pressure to do so) the only way you can attend the wedding is to give ten percent of what you made in the past yea to the mromon church. IOW, if you and your wife made a combined 125K - you have to pay $12,500 to see your own childs wedding.
Be sure of whom you are talking with!
Wink wink, nudge nudge. Do your wives... Are they go'ers? Do they, uh... you know.... (after a Monty Python sketch for the Mormon Blog Minders here).
I got ya, lowkey, but for every thing they don't do as bad as Scientologists, they are planning something for the Nation and world far worse in the future when they take over. OR at least that is what their documents claim....
Ugh.
ANd anyway, I have several gay friends (I can think of three off the top of my head) and one gay BIL who had wives. I does happen. (Especially growing up mormon - you are taught that marrying a woman is how to deal with the "problem.")
Hopefully we will see less and less of that thuogh, now that "opposite marriage" is no longer the only option.
Enough already!
THAT takes it's toll on Mormon's and Utah's reputation.
to show there's no hard feelings, I want to help out Utah's tourism.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-8/1210139/U...
and
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-8/1210139/u...
cuz I'm a GIVER
http://www.evergreen.edu/catalog/2009-10/progra...
Granted my skills are outdated, but when I attended college, computers used keypunch cards and didn't fit in one room, but I have a Fine Arts degree.
Evergreen is still active but to my knowledge no longer uses torture.
West Ridge Academy videos on youtube, and mormongulags.com
have some pretty ugly testimonials
Chico Blanco also has a blog, and posts on Pam's House Blend knows a lot about the Mormons, and finds out inside stuff better than any I've seen.
Now I get where you are confused about Mormon beliefs.
In Christianity, they believe that God The Father, Jesus Christ and The Holy Ghost are all one god in different forms.
In Mormonism, they believe all three are distinct and seperate Gods. Technically, Mormons are poly-theists.
He started in heaven with God the Father, then was cast out.
Christ was an only child. Jesus had brothers and sisters (James is the most famous, he headed the Jerusalem church that conflicted with Paul). Said siblings were only devils by hyperbole.
The devil, i.e. Satan, was a fallen angel. Angels where another order of created beings. Supposedly, God found them lacking so he created mankind.
I'm not sure angels have families but, Satan is more akin to Michael or Gabriel or even the Mormon Moroni.
As for a brother named James, that is in the New Testament. Again, it may not be true, but it is true as far as the theology.
No Christian theology posits that Satan was the brother of Jesus.
I liked the quote which needs to be repeated...
" The Mormons are Coming !!...the Mormons are Coming!!"
Though there is one problem with your premise. Many Americans do not consider Mormonism a religion. They consider it a cult. So they might object to you comparing tolerance for other religions to tolerance for Mormonism in the same way that, say, tolerance for Catholicism is not akin to tolerance for Scientology. Again, I'm just stating an observation.
Their nutso mythology is just the nuts in their bigotry cake, and if used to highlight how stupid their beliefs are about teh gays, perfectly fair game.
This is pretty fun stuff. Seriously, what tabloid did you get it from?
Like publishing the HATEFUL "to young men only" pamphlet which advocated gay bashing....printed for decades.
Or would you like to delve into the NAACP lawsuits involving a Black Boy Scout they wouldn't advance, or Temple THUGS murdering the body guard of the elder who DARED ordain the first Black Man?
Maybe you'd like to share your thoughts on the EXTRAORDINARY amount of Mormon Boy Scout leaders buggering Scouts.
btw I can BACK UP all my claims with links.
http://www.americablog.com/2008/11/mormons-cont...
and for you miserable BUSYBODIES attacking our families,,,,pass this around
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showComment.do?co...
My mother was baptised hundreds of times, but then it was reserved for children who died before they reached the age of 8 yo. In her own family her mother miscarried three babies, so some of those baptisms were for her own sisters.
Recent protests against the Mormon Church are full of irony. "You better be more tolerant or I'll burn your church down."
Your argument makes no sense, as argument.
And, you manage to insert yet another lie into that lack of argument -- that those protesting Mormon bigotry in action are somehow advocating "church burning."
That protests against your church's institutional bigotry and attempts to codify that bigotry into United States government policy, are some bigoted.
Again, huh? Discussing your church's bigotry in action (and quoting actual Mormon scripture) is somehow bigotry?
Not in a reality based universe, but that, again, is the problem with Mormonism.
Lies built upon lies.
"Dallin H. Oaks, Apostle, "Gospel Teachings About Lying", Clark Memorandum BYU (Spring 1994 pg. 16-17). In this Oaks acknowledges 'Lying for the Lord' by early Mormon leaders. Joseph Smith lied about many of his activities and the overwhelming historical evidence forced Oaks to admit the lies. Among Mormons and former Mormons it has become known as "Lying for the Lord".
"Lying for the Lord refers to the practice of lying to protect the image of and belief in the Mormon religion, a practice which Mormonism itself fosters in various ways. From Joseph Smith's denial of having more than one wife, to polygamous Mormon missionaries telling European investigators that reports about polygamy in Utah were lies put out by "anti-Mormons" and disgruntled ex-members, to Gordon B. Hinckley's dishonest equivocation on national television over Mormon doctrine, Mormonism's history seems replete with examples of lying. Common members see such examples as situations where lying is justified. For the Mormon, loyalty and the welfare of the church are more important than the principle of honesty, and plausible denials and deception by omission are warranted by an opportunity to have the Mormon organization seen in the best possible light. This is part of the larger package of things that lead many to describe Mormonism as a cult. "Lying for the lord" is part of Mormonism's larger deceptive mainstreaming tactics, and conversion numbers would drastically lower if important Mormon beliefs were fully disclosed to investigators. "
http://www.mormonwiki.org/Lying_for_the_Lord
http://www.mormonthink.com/lying.htm
Stay the hell out of other people's business.
Clear enough? Practice whatever the hell you want behind closed doors - the LGBT community is NONE of your business. Verstehen Sie?
Mormons can run (and lie), but they can't hide from their own sick actions.
Go back and read the multiple diaries Aravosis has written on this issue, you'll find all the citations you need to take those blinders off.
We're not required to educate you with every diary, especially of the obvious.
http://www.americablog.com/2008/11/mormons-cont...
"I found the following not from McConkie, but from authorized mormon Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, Apostle Orson Hyde:
Jesus also married Mary and Martha and the other Mary at Cana of Galilee, “Whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified”
(Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, 4:259; 2:82)"
Jesus as an incestuous polygamist, niiiiiiiiice theology you've got there. Ugh.
That passage doesn't say Jesus married his mother? Really? When that's what it says?
But even if you're correct on that point -- why would you lie, although lying is approved by your church, for religious reasons -- then we're left with Jesus the Polygamist, according to Mormon scripture.
Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
About as nice as baptizing Obama's mother and Anne Frank into Mormonism after their death.
And lying to deny American citizens their civil rights.
The American people see you for what you are, liars and bigots.
More lies aren't going to change that.
"The heartbreak of psoriasis"
"The soul-wrenching shame of Mormonism"
RATHER presumptuous to call yourself "THE" mormon, I thought being prideful was frowned upon.
But be that as it may, I was blessed Mormon, my Mother converted when us kids ranged from 11yo to 4yo. I had great grandparents who lived in territorial Utah, and lived until their late 90's, so I knew them until I became an adult. I have about 50 LDS members in my extended family who love and respect me as openly gay.
With Mormons and anti-Mormons alike -- what's the big deal? A person dies. Religious people think the soul goes to heaven. (I assume, YOUR heaven.) Then what? The soul stays there, happy as a clam. And then the Mormons find out about your loved ones and ZAP! They steal the soul and the soul then transfers over to the Mormon heaven?
Give me a break! Is this 2009, or 1600? It is so foolish! Mormons! Presbyterians! Catholics! Who cares? Just make life in America 2009 better. And that means keeping your nose out of others' lives, as long as they aren't harming you. And that means YOU, religious wackoes! Gays aren't hurting YOU so butt out.
To me, that is how this whole issue gets hysterical -- most Americans actually believe the mythical cloud being is real and YOUR way is the ONLY way. Grow up!
DOING any ritual involving someone's deceased family member against the surviving family members wishes is DISRESPECTFUL!
That'll teach 'em.
Please read more about the mormon practice of baptism for the dead: http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_BaptDead.s...
Chain of evidence, my friend.
In a message dated 05/29/09 11:14:04 Pacific Daylight Time, writes:
judybrowni (unregistered) wrote, in response to shell:
Sure, it's nutso for the Mormons to believe they can convert Jews who died in the Holecaust to Mormonism by after-death "baptism" -- but the point is, it's of a piece with their current efforts to force their insane religious beliefs on the entire state of California, lying and pouring money into the effort to deprive an entire class of citizens of their civil rights.
Chain of evidence, my friend.
Link to comment: http://www.americablog.com/2009/05/mormon-favor...
--
You may reply to this email to post your response. To turn off notifications, go to your Disqus settings at: http://disqus.com/settings/notifications/
I don't know why no one ever questioned Romney about his treasonous belief that the US government should be overthrown and replaced by a mormon theocrasy.
Stay out of messing with my family's civil rights, pouring money and lies into trying to control my state government, and maybe everyone will go back to not giving a fuck what you nasty assholes believe on your own time.
Honestly, though, Judy, I have never seen such hypocrisy and vileness in my entire life as I have seen in the posts of you and your goons...
You're bigots, so don't be surprised when you get called on your bigotry simply because you can't stand the idea that gays and lesbians have love in their lives.
You're hypocrites -- a religious group that promotes lies and hate -- so don't be surprised when you get called on your hypocrisy.
Want to know what's vile? Forcing the bigotry in your religion on other American citizens.
Lying and lying and lying and lying and lying because the truth doesn't line up with your hate speech -- hey, isn't there a commandment about that?
Yeah, breaking that commandment, over and over and over again, that's pretty vile in my book (and also in the Bible, coincidentally.)
Sorry, but the facts are still on my side, and lying is still (as it has been through their history) a religious precept for Mormons. (See citations at the top and middle of this thread.)
Which I guess would include your lying about my use of facts.
Which is in no way countermanded by my disinterest in the fine points of wacko Mormon beliefs.
Whether or not Mormons believe Jesus married his mother -- frankly, I don't care either way -- they lied about the effects of gay marriage on the school system in a series of ads, and funnelled tens of millions into a campaign to deny gay citizens basic civil rights.
Facts, since they have become generally known, that have likely influenced the 37% drop in Mormon favorability ratings in the American public in the last year alone.
Your wacko religious beliefs -- especially those forced on other Americans -- probably haven't helped, either.
Jesus also married Mary and Martha and the other Mary at Cana of
Galilee, “Whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified”
(Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, 4:259; 2:82)
Makes my skin crawl. However, stay out of everybody else's business, and you can go right on believing Jesus was an incestuous polygamist, without the rest of us being forced to reveal it to the general public.
Oh that was me being sarcastic.
By all means, go to the source of lies for more lies.
Your religion has earned the scorn of the American public for the lies and hate about gays and the lies and bullying tactics to interfere in another state's government, but I can understand why you wouldn't want the curtain pulled back on both your lies and your whack job beliefs.
The truth burns, doesn't it?
From authorized mormon Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, Apostle Orson Hyde:
Jesus also married Mary and Martha and the other Mary at Cana of Galilee, “Whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified” (Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, 4:259; 2:82)
Jesus as an incestuous polygamist, niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
But no more creepy, than using church funds -- and lies -- to deny civil rights to American citizens.
Two thousand in donation isn't 190 thousand.
Mormon Math
So according to Mormon scripture JESUS MARRIED THREE WOMEN, TWO OF WHOM WERE CALLED MARY.
Yow, and that's NOT whackadoodle? What a wonderful example of marriage limited to ONE man and ONE woman, which the Mormons insist is now their goal.
However, if you read through the other comments, you'll find one from a former Mormon seminary student who avers that he was indeed taught that Jesus married his mother.
Whatever. Be as whackdoodle as you like privately, or in your own churches -- stop trying to delay the civil rights of other American citizens, and you will be left in peace to contemplate Jesus either fucking his mother, or not.
We don't give a shit. But if you're going to act as hypocritical bigoted liars, don't be surprised if you get called on your other wacky crap.
You call me a hypocritical bigoted liar for merely setting the record straight? I am not against equal rights I have been fighting for them since before you were born. I voted against prop 8 and am a member of courage campaign. So piss off for calling me names just for pointing out an error you made in your post.
In my hundreds of posts on this blog never once have I said that mormon beliefs (or christian beliefs) were not nuts. They are. SO try reading what I actually say instead of calling me names.
Oh and the person you are referring to in your post to support your rant, is ME dumbass.
It does no one any good to tell mormons that they are crazy to beleive that Jesus had sex with his mother when no mormon has ever believed that. I went to four years of mormon seminary. I took seven religion classes at BYU, I spent two years as a mormon missionary. I ahve read more than 50 books on mormon doctrine and mormon history. I know what I am talking about and you do not. What is wrong with telling people what mormons actually beleive - that god had sex with mary, not Jesus - instead of making some bullshit up. What's wrong with telling the truth? And why attack people who tell the truth?
I'm more concerned, as you are, with their ongoing bigotry, and the real world consequences of that.
I actually had a Mormon coworker (and friend), years ago. And she told me that HONESTY was a HUGE deal with Mormons. (She loved it that her husband would NOT lie, even if it hurt anothers' feelings.)
I see MANY Mormons lying their tails off these days. Why is that? Is lying OK if you lie to a non-Mormon? Of course, this is a rhetorical question. If you are a Mormon, you would lie to me, a non-Mormon.
1. What was the youngest age of Smith's multiple "wives?" IOW, the youngest girl he had sex with was how old?
2. What crime was Smith convicted of in abstentia because he fled the state to avoid prosecution?
3. How many unarmed men women and children, including babies, did mormon priesthood holders slaughter on 9/11/1857?
4. Who got most of the loot that the mormons stole from the pioneers they massacred, including a fine carraige that he proudly rode around SLC in?
5. Who did Joseph Smith prophesy would be killed by an assasin (and when Smith sent his assasin he failed to kill) thus messing up a perfectly planned prophecy?
6. WHo is Oliver Granger?
7. Why did the mormons have a protestant preacher in their temple ceremony who was a hireling of Satan?
8. Why did Mormon Jesus come to the Americas after he was dead and kill millions of Native Americans for the crime of not "believing" in him?
2. What crime was Smith convicted of in abstentia because he fled the state to avoid prosecution? Bank Fraud.
3. How many unarmed men women and children, including babies, did mormon priesthood holders slaughter on 9/11/1857? No one knows for sure - but most estimates are between 120 and 130.
4. Who got most of the loot that the mormons stole from the pioneers they massacred, including a fine carraige that he proudly rode around SLC in? Brigham Young.
5. Who did Joseph Smith prophesy would be killed by an assasin (and when Smith sent his assasin he failed to kill) thus messing up a perfectly planned prophecy? Missouri Governor Lilburn Boggs.
6. WHo is Oliver Granger? Practically no one knows who this is, but Smith prophecied that his name would be known forever. It is even recorded in mormon scriptures.
7. Why did the mormons have a protestant preacher in their temple ceremony who was a hireling of Satan? Because Mormons were virulently anti-christian. In 1990 the minister as a hireling of Satan was removed from the "unchangeable" ceremony, because many people, especially christian converts, were not comfortable with the portrayal.
8. Why did Mormon Jesus come to the Americas after he was dead and kill millions of Native Americans for the crime of not "believing" in him? Cause mormon jesus is a dick. ;-P
hahahahahahaha Good one!
You need to settle down. Have some Jello and some casserole. Its a new recipe given out last week in Relief Society.
Peggy is right, the article does have some inaccuracies but that doesn't mean the spirit of it isn't right. Mormons are pushy, They do proxy baptisms for the dead even though their living relatives ask them not to. They do believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers. They don't believe that Jesus had sex with his mom. They just believe that God the father did. Just because the articel got a few pieces of info wrong, doesn't mean that mormon beliefs aren't weird and far fetched
PS...We'd love to go to the mormon website for info about the church if the church could actually have the balls to be honest about both its history, its founder, and doctrines it once taught but have since abandoned
Mormons may be pushy and obnoxious, but we will be even more so. That's one thing they didn't anticipate when they decided to dive into state legislative issues that didn't concern them.
This may sound confusing to you since you were probably under the impression that Jesus and God are the same. But mormons do not believe in the trinity.
Mormons belive that god was once a man on another planet (which had some other god ruling it) - was really good - and became a god. He then created trillions of spirit babies who needed to go and get physical bodies so he had this earth organized. Now Jesus, who was one of his spirit babies, also came to earth as his physical son. God is literally the physical father of Jesus. mary is literally his mother.
I mean that is what mormons teach, I'm not suggesting its real. ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yPQR4UlXqs
The wretched anti-feminist garbage of shoving Utah Mormon women on busses to go trash the ERA in Idaho, was "totally Mormon."
But I can tell you NONE of my aunts or grandmother would have been shoved on a damn bus.
Here is a great link that can answer a lot of questions people might have about mormons practice of baptism for the dead, among other things:
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_BaptDead.s...
You aren't taught that in seminary. But, how else is a baby created? Did God snap his fingers and BAM, a fetus appeared in Mary's belly? Or did the stork visit Mary's house?
Use your head - it's quite simple. How can Jesus claim Elohim as His father, if he wasn't, literally, his FATHER?
But you admit that it is correct in the rest of your post. Do you like calling people liars and then making sure you prove yourself to be a liar in your own post?
Jesus. if he existed, had a father. That's why he was known as Joshua bar Joseph - cause Joseph was his dad. The virgin birth thing was invented later because Mithras (and other mytholgical creatures)was also supposedly born of a virgin. So the Jesus cult co-opted their mythologies
As long as you're discussing mythology.
Back here in the reality-based community we don't care if you believe Jesus fucked his mother, or not.
We do care when you try to force the American people into living your bigoted religious beliefs, thru lies and bullying.
Uhhh. NO. Prop 8 was only about defining the word, marriage. Sorry to break it to you, but that institution was created by christianity. We don't care what people do with each other. We DO care about how they are trying to change OUR word, OUR institution. They have the exact same rights as married people. Prop 8 wasn't about rights, it was about the definition of MARRIAGE.
Although early Christians did hold some sort of same-sex committment ceremony for men centuries before they also adopted the ceremony between men and women.
The word marriage dates back only to the 14th century middle English, from the French marier, making it not YOUR word so much as that of the French of the middle ages, perhaps.
If you want to go back to the Old Testament, it extols marriage as polygamist as the desert tribes of Jews sought to increase their numbers, but I thought Mormons and other Christians had disavowed that sort of marriage.
Using the word "marriage" to mask the bigotry is usual for Mormons and other whack job so-called Christians, but the reality is denying civil rights to gays has real world consequences. For instance, my brother who has been with his partner of 30 years, can't be signed onto his partner's health insurance, should he lose his job.
If either of them dies, they risk losing their house, because, unlike a "married" couple, neither can collect Social Security benefits if the other dies.
Why don't you just admit it's not about the word "marriage" -- which belongs to whoever can say, or spell it -- but that you hate that my brother has had love in his life for 30 years.
Oh yeah, and my sister, the doctor (better education than you, saving lives since 1975) is also gay, and with her partner over 30 years.
That's right: you, bigot. That's the real word involved here: bigotry.
And just because you are an ignorant little kid does not change reality son.
If you had a shred of decency in you would apologize for calling me a liar.
But I doubt you have any.
"Proposition 8 . . . Mormons contributed more than half of the campaign’s $40 million war chest [as well as "door knocking"] The Washington Post notes that the Mormon Church was involved with an anti-marriage equality campaign in Hawaii in 1998 and spent $400,000 of church money but requested that the Catholic Church take the lead when it came to the public image of the campaign. This may have something to do with Mormons’ overall low favorability ratings with the American public in general, which declined to 37 percent last year..."
"This is a campaign of bigotry, and the institution must be held accountable for it in the court of public opinion."
http://blog.thehumanist.com/
It doesn't really matter,
For after all is said.
We'll get you when you're living.
Or we'll get you when you're dead
Before making such a comment, why don't you read a little more about it:
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_BaptDead.s...
Catholics pray for the dead - how would you feel if a Catholic was praying over your dead grandfather's soul for admittance into heaven? What's the difference with Mormons? If you think Mormonism is just a big joke, with no truth or significance to their actions, why in the hell do you care if they perform an ordinance for the dead? Steal souls? You are clearly a ignorant bigot, who uses false facts to make Mormons look bad.
Why don't you write about blacks, and how they "murdered love in an entire state?" Almost 80% of blacks voted FOR prop 8. I'm sure many of them were involved in the prop 8 campaign. Or would that not bode well with all your liberal friends? Is it just much more fun to blame it on the Mormons? Only 2% (2 percent!) of California is Mormon... Obviously, if you want gay marriage to be accepted in California, you've got a much bigger problem on your hands than attacking 2% of the demographic.
I'd love to hear your response, or never read your worthless posts ever again.
1. Sex isn't the ONLY way a baby is created. Hint: it results in a direct clone of you. (Check out a biology textbook sometime. I am sure Mormons don't teach this science, but it is true. No, it's not common, but it HAS happened.)
2. Catholics praying for the dead. Are you THAT stupid to believe that is the same? The difference, of course, is that Catholics don't pray for a dead one without a family member requesting it. And "praying for" is quite different than "stealing their souls."
3. No one has to do anything to make Mormons look bad. Mormons do it quite nicely on their own. And you are helping a lot. Just in this one answer, you have alienated many Americans who knew practically nothing about Mormons. All they know is you. Congrats!
4. I live in CA -- do you? There is no way in hell that "almost 80% of blacks voted FOR prop 8." We went to a couple of protests before the election and the only blacks there were protesting AGAINST Prop 8. The main group protesting FOR it were imbecilic, misogynistic eastern-European immigrants who couldn't even vote. And they were whiter than I am.
5. I doubt only 2% of Californians are Mormons, but it doesn't matter. Millions of dollars was shipped in from Salt Lake City. So what does it matter? Keep your bigotry in Utah -- we have our own state and don't need YOUR bigotry.
TRUTH: If only CALIFORNIANS were allowed to advertise, Prop 8 would have failed in a landslide. Other states: keep your bigotry in your own ugly state.
And why, if you are not gay or agree with anything they say, do you post here? The Mormons pay you to? You can reach a higher heaven for doing so? Don't tell me you are doing it to save souls. If so, you are doing a lousy job.
--------------------
So basically, what you're saying, is that the Californians are easily warped into voting for whatever issue has the most advertising dollars.
Stupid Sheep.
It's called Lying for the Lord and you'll find citations for the history and policy, as documented by Mormons and Mormon hierarchy both near the top and at the middle of this thread.
A blizzard of lying Mormon funded ads, run multiple times an hour for weeks on end -- I live in Los Angeles, and if I hadn't known the truth, even I might have been swayed by those lies, repeated.
However, since the Mormon lies have been revealed, recent polls have registered the swing back to acceptance for gay marriage in California (as well as in other parts of the country.)
Mormon lies have done gay rights supporters the favor of revealing how base and low the opposition is.
The arc of history moves toward justice.
In a message dated 05/29/09 21:08:12 Pacific Daylight Time, writes:
So basically, what you're saying, is that the Californians are easily warped into voting for whatever issue has the most advertising dollars.
The point is, that Mormons are being singled out, when a large majority of blacks supported the proposition. I applaud them for voting yes, but it just shows the hypocrisy when you only single out mormons.
Money doesn't buy votes - we've seen that in elections and proposition measures.
"A new study on California’s Proposition 8 voting trends released Tuesday found that far fewer African-Americans voted to pass the gay marriage ban than the 70% suggested by exit polling and concluded that race was not the most significant factor affecting people’s vote for or against marriage equality.
After conducting in-depth analysis of election returns from five key California counties and using census data to estimate the racial makeup of the voters in those counties, researchers found that between 57% and 59% of African-Americans voted in favor of Proposition 8, which amended the state's constitution to prohibit same-sex marriage. .."
http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid70200.asp
Get it: exit polls, are different from actual votes.
And, unfortunately, money has and does buy votes in the American system of government, whether through advertising or other funding.
But you're just a kid, is my guess, school is out for the day, and annoying grownups with fact-free rants on the internet is an alternate use of your time to annoying the neighbors door-to-door with the same uninformed tripe.
You're simply repeating talking points fed to you. You might want to research what the grownups here have been telling you -- we don't always provide citations simply because it's information generally known to anyone who has been paying attention to the news recently.
Just how stupid do these people think we are?
Duh, we're on the internet, so, duh, we know how to use it to look up stuff. Basic stuff, you know, facts and stuff.
Ugh.
But I get ya, I believe your post is more correct than that Mormon blog minder iamse7en.
Ugh.
The Erotic Adventures of Heavenly Father
Starring Mary mother of Jesus as the married woman who couldn't say no. Featuring Joseph as the guillible husband who would belive any person visiting his wife is god. Also featuring, Mother In Heaven, who likes to watch.
Music by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir singing:
Cum, Cum, Ye Saints
Thank you!
To any sane, rational person, your explanation is a LOT crazier.
Or back to the reality-based world: how many Mormons can lie, until their favorability drops 37 percent in one year with the American public.
The Erotic Adventures of Heavenly Father
Starring Mary mother of Jesus as the married woman who couldn't say no. Featuring Joseph as the guillible husband who would belive any person visiting his wife is god.
Music by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir singing:
Cum, Cum, Ye Saints
Ugh.
"Proposition 8 . . . Mormons contributed more than half of the campaign’s $40 million war chest [as well as "door knocking"]
"The Washington Post notes that the Mormon Church was involved with an anti-marriage equality campaign in Hawaii in 1998 and spent $400,000 of church money but requested that the Catholic Church take the lead when it came to the public image of the campaign. This may have something to do with Mormons’ overall low favorability ratings with the American public in general, which declined to 37 percent last year..."
"This is a campaign of bigotry, and the institution must be held accountable for it in the court of public opinion."
http://blog.thehumanist.com/
Oh, and "it's the black folks fault for Prop 8" theory has also been thoroughly discredited.
If money bought votes, we would have seen Forbes as our president.
However -- and then I must go back to the reality-based world -- as has been well-documented: millions of dollars of Mormon money was used to create a blizzard of last-minute ads which LIED about the effects of gay marriage, lies frightening enough to sway a small enough of a segment of the public into voting for Prop 8.
As the Mormon lies have been discredited, polls have once again swung toward the legalization of gay marriage in California, as well as elsewhere in the United States.
(And Mormon favorability has dropped by 37 percent with the American public, who generally don't like being lied to.)
Your arguments are a primary example of Reductio ad absurdum (Latin: "reduction to the absurd.")
Look it up.
Ugh.
As does any other "business" masquerading as a "Church".
Ugh.
Ugh.
He's a docile little apologist gay.
This the hypocracy of intolerance for intolerance, hate for hate. The shift from dialog to death. From resolution to ruin.
I couldn't care less what you think.
Your cult is now reaping what it has sown.
Versus the very real deaths and assaults dealt to GLBT in the here and now.
"In the United States, the FBI reported that 15.6% of hate crimes reported to police in 2004 were founded on perceived sexual orientation. Sixty-one percent of those attacks were against gay men, 14% against lesbians, 2% against heterosexuals and 1% against bisexuals, while attacks against LGBT people at large made up 20%.[20]
The FBI reported that for 2006, hate crimes against gays increased to 16%, from 14% in 2005, as percentage of total documented hate crimes across the U.S.[21] "
Such as the 15 year old boy shot in his school after announcing he was gay, oh, last year.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/23/us/23oxnard.html
And who's the biggest fomenter for hate against gays? Who would have guessed it? The so-called Christians.
Maybe not pulling the trigger themselves, always, but always yammering on about how sick, twisted and undeserving of basic civil rights those gays are.
Who just happen to get themselves murdered at a higher rate than Christians or straights.
I am sick and tired of the Christian victim syndrome. When teenager boys routinely arm themselves with baseball bats to go beat up the Christians on Saturday night, then we can talk.
Until then you're a hypocritical, bigoted asshole.
That they're willing to lie and funnel millions of dollars into forcing their bigoted religious views on the rest of the American public.
That they're willing to play the victim while victimizing other American citizens.
Maybe individual Mormons aren't hateful, but the actions of thousands of Mormons have been to promote hate.
Believe me, I've missed none of that -- and apparently another 37% of the American population has caught on to Mormon hate actions in the last year alone.
Clean up your own church before you have the bloody nerve to criticize anyone else.
Fuck you big time for decades of lies and bigotry.
You want a friend? Try not hanging with and supporting bigoted liars.
So don't spin it, Mormon blog minder, spin ON it.
Ugh.
"... the murder of Christians (or Mormons)?"
Thanks for admitting Mormons are NOT Christians.
Mormons are a crazy quilt of polytheism and science fiction.
And I would love to see the rapture of the Mormons, and don't let the atmosphere slap 'em in the ass as they go into low earth orbit until the Mothership comes to take them to their own private Golub or Altair IV or whatever...
Ugh.
I will volunteer to pack the bags of any Mormon, to hasten the RAPTURE, the sooner you hateful folks leave OUR planet, the happier we'll both be.
From Mormon scripture, that's where.
From authorized mormon Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, Apostle Orson Hyde:
Jesus also married Mary and Martha and the other Mary at Cana of Galilee, “Whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified” (Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, 4:259; 2:82)
Jesus as an incestuous polygamist, niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
But no more creepy, than using church funds -- and lies -- to deny civil rights to American citizens.
(There's been some debate in this thread from Mormons that neither of those Marys were Jesus' mother -- even by that standard Mormon scripture paints Jesus as a polygamist -- ick. And discusses Jesus' "seed" -- double ick.)
I'm reminded of the famous quote from Adlai Stevenson on Republicans, "If they'll stop lying about us, we'll stop telling the truth about them."
Got that, Mormons -- you stop lying, and maybe we won't be forced to tell the icky truth about your religion. (Because the truth about your religion is more damning than your lies about gays.)
Ick, icky ick ick.
My brother's 30 year loving relationship with his partner Larry is clean as the driven snow in comparison to Mormon scripture and lies.
You can send out more of your robots to litter these threads with misinformation with out-right lies, but the fact remains: in this last year alone, Mormon favorability went down 37% in polls of the American people.
Your lies have been caught out, and the American people don't like liars, hypocrites and bigots.
You may delay civil rights for the GBLT, but you won't stop them. So in the end, your lies and millions will be wasted.
Thank God for that.
Good on, Judy, your work is appreciated.
Ugh.
Scroll down below, or do a simple web search for news and analysis, and you'll find the facts about Mormon lies, religion, bigotry and hypocrisy.
Or don't.
But Mormon favorability with the American public has dropped 37% in this year alone, so they're well-aware of the truth, even if you'd like to deny it.
Thank the good Lord.
So lie away, throw slurs and insults when you can't refute the truth, but you've been found out.
Mormons can continue to lie and throw millions of dollars more down the drain in the attempt to delay civil rights for gays, but the arc of history moves toward justice.
And the American public doesn't like liars, hypocrites or bigots, so good luck with all that, honey.
How Mormon of you!
However, for those of you without the patience to scroll down, here's repeat info on the Mormon theological precept Lying for the Lord:
"Noted LDS historians D. Michael Quinn and B. Carmon Hardy have written compassionately and humanely as they describe the history of Mormonism, and the use of deception as a useful tool to manage the minds of its adherents and public perception. "
The previous is from an article on the history and policy of lying in the Mormon Church written by Ken Clark for MormonThink.com.
Ken worked full time for the LDS Church Education System (CES) for 27 years. He also served as a bishop; "a calling he enjoyed as much as full time instructor and Coordinator for the Church Education System. "
http://www.mormonthink.com/lying.htm
If that's too academic a format for you, here's a link with a lineup for numerous sources on Lying for the Lord:
http://www.google.com/search?q=Lying+for+the+Lo...
Including a summing up that goes a long way in explaining the why for of the Mormon hypocrisy involved in the lying ads they used to promote Prop 8:
"Lying for the Lord refers to the practice of lying to protect the image of and belief in the Mormon religion, a practice which Mormonism itself fosters in various ways. From Joseph Smith's denial of having more than one wife, to polygamous Mormon missionaries telling European investigators that reports about polygamy in Utah were lies put out by "anti-Mormons" and disgruntled ex-members, to Gordon B. Hinckley's dishonest equivocation on national television over Mormon doctrine, Mormonism's history seems replete with examples of lying. "
"Common members see such examples as situations where lying is justified. For the Mormon, loyalty and the welfare of the church are more important than the principle of honesty, and plausible denials and deception by omission are warranted by an opportunity to have the Mormon organization seen in the best possible light. This is part of the larger package of things that lead many to describe Mormonism as a cult. "
"Lying for the lord" is part of Mormonism's larger deceptive mainstreaming tactics, and conversion numbers would drastically lower if important Mormon beliefs were fully disclosed to investigators."
http://www.mormonwiki.org/Lying_for_the_Lord
Your bro is a lucky guy. I don't have a sister, but if I did, I would want her to be like you ;)
Your support of him (and the rest of us) is fierce. Thank you.
(Of course the truth is on your side -- and that helps!)
Thx.
I think you need to document your analysis, bub.
Ugh.
Ugh.
PS
John the fundamentalist Mormons are the ones advocating polygamy. They are NOT part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Many mainstream Mormons have taken the lost boys into their homes after the fundamentalist Mormons kicked them out with just the clothes on their backs (gotta have fewer males than females if you want to have that many wives)
My take on the entire corpus: ROTFL.
Ugh.
I wanna know.
Ugh.
Oh, wait. We don't.
Obviously you have not idea about LDS theology. Sad, truely sad.
John made only one mistake with his mormon theology, because he was not aware that mormons believe do not believe in the trinity and think that jesus and god are two separate people. I mean not a lot of non-mormon know that mormon theology holds that god was once a man like us, living on another planet, who then later became a god. And then fathered Jesus with Mary. When John saw the mormon teaching about God being the physical father of Jesus, in his mind Jesus IS god, so its an understandable mistake.
Jesus is the brother (or at least kin) of the Devil? What balderdash. It makes no sense. And it is clearly in the original papers of the LDS, many of which were put into the memory hole (gracias a Orwell).
So, these folks come here and try to spin dry their nonsense. We are just too well-educated to fall for it.
Ugh.
You belong to a cult that steals souls in damp, dark basements without windows.
Ugh.
Ugh.
Oh, and Jesus didn't sleep with his mother in Mormon doctrine. It was God the Father ("Elohim") who fathered Jesus, and Mormons believe they are separate beings. Some Mormons apparently distance themselves altogether from this idea that God had sex with Mary, but I was raised Mormon and that's certainly how I understood it.
Anyway I get that this was mostly tongue in cheek, but I hate to see Mormonism misrepresented because there are tons of questioning Mormons out there who see stuff like this and conclude that the web is full of anti-Mormon lies, so they just trust what they learned at church all the more.
Time to tax all religion and get out of our financial crisis.
John, your accusations reek of hatred towards the Mormons. Is it because they condemn your homosexual behavior?
I have many friends who are not Mormons, my closest friends include an Atheist, Muslim, Protestant, Catholic, and Buddhist. I have the highest of respect for their beliefs, and they respect mine. Why? Because both sides have taken the time to gather accurate information about the other's beliefs. I love when a person challenges my personal beliefs with a legitimate, thought out objection. These things cause both parties to seriously consider their beliefs! If my beliefs ring true, then I have nothing to fear by challenging them. If, on the other hand, my beliefs are false then challenging them is what will get me on track... get it?
This article is not a well researched or thought out objection to Mormonism, and I am sure that the author knows it. The reality of Mormon doctrine is quite different then the way he portrayed it. The author twisted Mormon beliefs to cause a particular emotional reaction at the expense of accuracy. John, why? I respect your disagreement with Mormon beliefs, and understand why you might feel that way. However if you are going to publish your disagreement, have the respect for others to present accurate arguments! Believe me, I have been a Mormon long enough and I have read enough to know that if someone wants to disagree with our beliefs there are legitimate theologically grounded arguments to do so! Lets keep our arguments based in reality, so that all may critically review their beliefs in honesty... rather than trying to rile people up with sensationalized tabloid versions of others beliefs.
I responded to some of the issues John brought up in my own blog at:
http://thistoolslife.blogspot.com/2009/05/newsp...
A great read for a coherent, scientific, discussion of Mormon theology can be found at:
mormoninsights.blogspot.com