AMERICAblog: Mormon leader of NOM appears to advocate overthrow of US government "by whatever means necessary," and criminalization of homosexuality
Crazy8
· 7 months ago
There it just goes to show you, I had no idea Orson Scott Card was insane. I pity his pathetic superstition. Too bad.
catdance
· 6 months ago
I don't agree with the "insane" label.
He's evil.
jimkhm
· 7 months ago
"does anyone else read this and wonder if some day, something big will happen, and someone will re-read this article and say "the signs were all there"? "
Is Orson Scott Card a mormon? The pope Catholic? The Oklahoma City bombing done by another extremists? Colorado next to Utah?
KerrynowCampau
· 7 months ago
"Biological imperatives trump laws" By all means yes. There should be a law requiring women to pump out as many little dysfunctional consumers as they can!
ndtovent
· 7 months ago
but it's ok (and even encouraged) if they are all married to one man.
Jophus
· 7 months ago
I love that the phrase you mention insinuates that marriage is a biological function. These people are so fuckin' far away, they can't be brought back.
Feel free to regulate your own biological functions.
Steve_in_CNJ
· 7 months ago
it would be selfish of me to "interfere" with this gentleman's happy marriage or biological imperative. tell the guests the wedding is off.
stefanzo
· 7 months ago
I liked a couple of his novels, but stopped reading anything of his after finding out he was a fundie Mormon. Usually I can separate the book from the Politics, but that soiled all his books to me.
woodroad34
· 7 months ago
I tried reading his books (the Ender series) but hated the hoakey farmer dialog--it just dragged for me--booooring. Now I know why -- he was probably reliving the whole Mormon creationism in 19th Century America and prosletyzing his faith swathed in SciFi/Fantasy. Actually it's kinda redundant and apropos. It's all fantasy.
eclare
· 7 months ago
I will never understand how anyone could be THAT worked up about someone else's right. I mean, it's been said before and will be said again, but why on earth would anybody care that much about whether other people get married. I can sort of understand a mild "it grosses me out and I'd rather not have to think about it," (although obviously I still abhor this mindset) but to focus this much negative energy on preventing something that has literally no bearing on his own life? I just don't get it.
cowboyneok
· 7 months ago
Anyone that gets that worked up believes sexual orientation is a choice. Like he said in the article, he fears his children will be taught to be gay or allowed to be gay and it will sew marital or reproductive discord. If he thinks its such a choice then obviously he CHOSE his own sexual orientation and is either BISEXUAL or a closet homosexual. I'm enough of a homosexual, I just don't have that luxury of choosing to be straight or I would have chosen it as a kid when I went through HELL ON EARTH growing up in Oklahoma. I've since learned to accept my being gay, and I'm happy with myself but I get pretty fired up with idiots who think sexual orientation is a simple matter of choice. It might be for THEM, but for ME it is NOT!
wmforr
· 7 months ago
Hey, cowboyneok, I also grew up in Oklahoma--Tulsa through Junior High. After three years in Denver someone told me I'd lost my drawl. I said, "What drawl?"
Fortunately, when I was called a queer by other kids, I didn't know what it meant. But then again, my parents were so uptight about sex that I thought women just sort of made babies once there was a magical wedding ceremony.
Now that I think about it, the kid who called me a queer became very interested in fiddling around once the hormones started rushing through his system.
cowboyneok
· 7 months ago
"the kid who called me a queer became very interested in fiddling around once the hormones started rushing through his system." Bingo! There ya go. Junior homophobe outs himself as soon as he starts screaming about "the gays!"
Gridlock
· 7 months ago
A pity, but I burnt all the books of his i owned when I found out. I just wish i could get my money back. I feel skeevy that my 10 dollars 15 years ago funded this shit.
mirth
· 7 months ago
A core belief of Mormonism is that a time will come when (their interpretation of) the Constitution will "hang by a thread" and the Elders of the church will "rescue" it.
No one familiar with Mormon beliefs, who knows their teachings and their history and their goal of controlling the US government, will take any of this lightly.
catdance
· 6 months ago
They're damned dangerous.
Dave of the Jungle
· 7 months ago
What is needed is a Five Year Plan to seize power from the Galactic Center.
No, really!
No, R E A L L Y . . .
roodoc13
· 7 months ago
Apparently he lives in an alternate universe more bizarre than the ones in his sci fi books.
mirth
· 7 months ago
Orson Scott Card has also written with seven pseudonyms:
Frederick Bliss, P.Q. Gump, Byron Walley, Brian Green, Dinah Kirkham, Noam D. Pellume, and Scott Richards.
John Aravosis
· 7 months ago
That's a bit odd.
Gridlock
· 7 months ago
I wonder if Dinah has big hair and wears shoulderpads...
ndtovent
· 7 months ago
ROFL!!
catdance
· 6 months ago
I think it must have been the Dinah persona who majored in theater and acted in musicals.
I wonder if Orson believes in "blood atonement." I wouldn't be surprised if he did. He's absolutely nuts, and this is scary.
vkobaya
· 7 months ago
Well, well, well. I never liked his writing, but was mystified by my distaste. He was a highly praised writer but those who admired his writing also had nothing good to say about my very favorite, Charles de Lint. de Lint often includes gays as characters in stories, often struggling, tragic figures due to the prejudice against them.
Orson Scott Card is about as disgustingly, hatefully, twisted, sick and bigoted as I can imagine. I know now why I so disliked his writings and never again will be tempted to buy and read his work.
To be honest, for believers, the Bible provides adequate reasons to be anti-gay. If that were as far as they went, they would be entitled to their opinions. When they slip over the line to lying and spouting extremist anti-gay rhetoric, claiming that government is part of the gay conspiracy and intends to destroy marriage, they lose any claim to being entitled to those opinions. As for sexual monogramy, ah, yes, like Gingrich and such, serial sexual monogamy, though we know in fact that he cheated a lot on each of his spouses.
If you ask me, Card sounds as batshit as Rev. Fred Phelps for this talk of destroying our government.
jcgraham77
· 7 months ago
The bible doesn't provide adequate reason to be anti gay. Have you referenced the original texts in the original language or are you referring to the Baptist bible?
ShirleyGoodnessanMercy
· 7 months ago
Correct. It is impossible to read the entire Bible and walk away from it thinking it condemns gays in any way. Anyone who says otherwise is lying and has not read the entire Bible.
Jophus
· 7 months ago
Are you religious or did you read it for entertainment?
Butch1
· 7 months ago
They may believe what they want but I draw the line of them assuming they get to say what others should believe whether you belong to their religion or not.
JamesR
· 7 months ago
I think there's more in the Bible endorsing slavery than condemning homosexuality. For those who like to be 'buffet Christians.'
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 7 months ago
does anyone else read this and wonder if some day, something big will happen, and someone will re-read this article and say "the signs were all there"? ---
I'm getting this from it...
Orson Scott Card = Jim Jones in the making
Dear members of the LDS church,
Don't drink the Flavor-Aide
the only difference I'm seeing? Jim Jones actually liked the gays before he went completely loopy.
jcgraham77
· 7 months ago
What we should do in droves is go to amazon.com and leave bad feedback for all of his writings.
woodroad34
· 7 months ago
"By whatever means necessary" -- he's now a traitor
"Conspiracy theories" -- but his and his fantasy cult can do whatever they want.
And that whole rambling of biological imperative proves just how he's not that great a thinker. "Two dimensional" Card is what they should call him.
Mr. Card, a better writer and wit than you said "Heterosexuality isn't normal, it's just common" -- kinda like you. You're not normal, you're just common.
justadood
· 7 months ago
it happens, when you start to believe your (or your church's) own hype.
Agreed--pity is merited here.
After reading 'Songhouse' and the original short-story that became 'Ender's Game', I felt Card had some insight into children. Plainly those days are long past, and all that's left is a hateful, fearful person unsure of himself or his place, and terrified of some ambiguous 'Other'.
Yet another role model for me to trot out to explain why I left Religion behind.....
Butch1
· 7 months ago
I say it is time to remove their tax exempt status and give them a fair warning that they are speaking of violent sedition which will get them thrown in jail as a domestic terrorist. It is not against the law to be gay or to love a person of the same gender. If these fools want to push it, they need to be crushed before they have further chances to incite the less intelligent in their cult. This falls under hate speech and hate crimes if carried out. I have run out of patience allowing people like this to determine what everyone else shall do or shall not. It has to stop.
Jophus
· 7 months ago
I co-sponsor this idea. Lets use laws as tools, just like they do.
wmforr
· 7 months ago
See. I just knew it. You are all part of the conspiracy to outlaw Christianity. The black helicopters are coming to take us to the FEMA re-education camps.
Next comes the War Against Santa Claus.
serge
· 7 months ago
Are you sure we're not talking about the Branch Davidians? My long-time assistant is a Mormon and I love her to death, but any 'faith' that is as secretive as the Mormon church, I think that relegates them to the status of Scientologists.
(She's also always trying to get me out of my full-blown atheist state. Not gonna happen.)
MalibuBarbie
· 7 months ago
Card's most famous story starred a genocidal child soldier who is brainwashed and manipulated to believe in his own victimization and innocence at every turn. Read this essay to see what makes Card's psychology tick - The Victim Hero
Honestly, these folks would be happier living under the Taliban than a nation with civil rights like the United States. Just replace 'Allah' with 'Jesus' and they're good to go.
FunMe
· 7 months ago
Wait a second! And this is the organization that Missy California is doing ads for?
OK this is definitely getting crazy.
And so much for people defending queenie's "opinion". These opinions are ones that led to destruction. They must be brought to justice before they do instill damage.
Indigo
· 7 months ago
Since it's a religious fight, I say, Let Cthulhu take them!
ndtovent
· 7 months ago
Wow! Even though I knew the mormon church was a backwards conservative cult, I never associated them with hate speech. Recruiting and brainwashing, yes, but not out and out hate speech. this reads just like something fred phelps would say. Well good. Let them be exposed. more people will see them for what they really are.
lunasolara
· 7 months ago
Orson Scott Card has officially lost it in recent years. "Ender's Game" is still a masterpiece that any high-I.Q. child can relate to. It can be a struggle sometimes when you're 10 and smarter than most of the adults around you. No one ever really thinks of themselves as children and he did a great job of showing it. The Bean series, "Ender's Shadow" and its sequels was better than the books that followed "Ender's Game" but there were a few hints that maybe Mr. Card was showing his colors a bit much toward the end.
It's a shame, but the older he gets, the harder it seems to be for him to function in the real world as it is now. It's a truly sad thing to watch someone I always admired as a writer go flying happily off the deep end.
Oh, FYI, I'm a happy little wiccan woman, who's occasionally, opportunistically bi, so I'd be one of the first on the fires should the fundies ever take over, and I still mourn this once great writer's current descent into madness.
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 7 months ago
one other thing...
he talks about attack/assault on marriage... I'm still baffled as to how my marriage affects HIS.
give me a clue here... does it make him feel like he might have a reason to experiment or something??
I just don't get it.
wmforr
· 7 months ago
The problem is, for those who have been paying attention to the storm that is gathering, that when same-sex marriage is legal, schools will teach children that it is all right. So all children will suddenly turn gay.
Imagine if it were legal to be a Buddhist or a Jew. Then the schools would teach children that it is all right, and they would all leave Christianity for other religions. Better to get rid of that "insane Constitution" all together.
JamesR
· 7 months ago
I found out he was batshit insane after I finished the third Ender book. The "Speaker for the dead" is an amazing concept. Unbelievable that it could have come from or through someone so hostile to diversity. Truly UNBELIEVABLE. But true. Perhaps there's a named psychological condition or syndrome for authors who are dynamic and inclusive and visionary in fictional characters and societies, and one dimensionally reactionary like a bad villain character in real life? Maybe we could call it "Card Syndrome."
ShirleyGoodnessanMercy
· 7 months ago
Could Orson Scott Card have succumbed to mental illness? I know a crazy woman who rants against the Jews one day and then mourns the cruel things that have been done to the Jews the next. She's very mentally ill. Could Card's swing to bizarre ideas be mental-illness-based? (combined with influence by the Mormon church)
wmforr
· 7 months ago
Is that redundant?
Jimmy
· 7 months ago
As a huge science fiction fan I've, of course, read Card's great Ender series. Usually, a fiction author's politics don't matter to me, but a few years ago I discovered Card's website. After reading the crap he spewed forth it was impossible to do that. The last Card novel I read was Empire, a right-wing ode to overthrowing the government by any violent means necessary. I no longer own a Card novel and I will never read his books again. I can no longer separate his nutty politics from his work as a novelist. What he says here does not surprise me.
SouthernYankee
· 7 months ago
What jerks these idiots are. I have a solution that am sure still goes on in Italy today. When my parents married in 42 they had to go to the courthouse first to have a civil marriage so it would be legal. Then on Saturday they had a large catholic wedding (the church's blessings). Why can't everyone have a courthouse civil marriage first that way everyone is treated the same. Then the ones who want to have a church wedding they can.
UtahLiberal
· 7 months ago
Hey, I think what Orson is proposing falls into the territory of sedition. Has the FBI arrested him and I wonder how the 'patriots' over at Faux News is cover this?
bikny
· 7 months ago
My book club is reading Ender's Game this month. I don't read many sci-fi books and was interested in reading a novel that is outside my normal reading preferences. I started the book last night and was enjoying it. Now I'm pissed that I bought a book that will give more money to this kook. Dang!
fl79tr
· 7 months ago
Wouldn't it be interesting if they all just up and left, kind of like the puritans, or the Mormons who all moved to Utah? I'm hoping they'll finally pick up and go some place more to their liking, maybe central Asia, or Greenland... Of course, they are pretty rich, maybe they'll build a space colony....
wmforr
· 7 months ago
Aren't they all supposed to rule their own planets when they die? Well, perhaps they should push for it now.
wmforr
· 7 months ago
Check out Card's blog here for his conspiracy theory about Obama setting up a dictatorship through voter fraud.
Brian Beckstead
· 7 months ago
I'm going to throw a wrench in the Mormon church's spokes when I release my Novel, THE STALLION WARRIORS the first part of October 2009.
Already dubbed; The DiVinci Code -meets- Brokeback Mountain -meets- The Work and The Glory!
The story is about a group of Gay men who have been protecting the Mormon Church for nearly 200 years!
I've already started to get fan and hate mail, which is to be expected but my platform is to entertain, and bring more attention to Male Survivors of Sexual Assault and Rape(I am a survivor).
Orson Card is a very talented author who has a chip on his shoulder and I hope he rediscovers his true Christianity.
I am glad to see Matthew Holland stepping down from NOM and continuing to foster minds in education which is a scary thought considering his views. Matthew and I served together in Scotland for 2 years.
If you check out my website and blog, you will understand why I will be persecuted for my work of Fiction. The days of "normal" are not over, for they were never here. : )
Orson Scott Card is not a leader of the LDS Church; he is merely an author, and activist, who happens to be a member of the church.
cactcap
· 4 months ago
Not many people know today that The Mormons Church has actually fought 3-wars with America since 1830 (Missouri War, Illinois War and Utah War) and that their secret Mormon prophecies, "Daniel's Prophecy of the Rise of the Kingdom of God in the Last Days" and "The Doctrine of the Constitution Hanging by a Thread" teach that the Mormons will conquer America and convert in into their "Mormon Kingdom of Zion".
Further, the Joseph Smith actually wrote a prophecy about 9/11 in 1831 and Mormons dressed up as Indians and massacred 120 innocent men women and children who were traveling through southern Utah in 1857. THE MASSACRE OCCURRED ON 9/11 1857.
Overview of Mormon Religion & Theology:
The Mormon Church is a separatist organization that has fought 3-wars with the United States since 1830, the Missouri War, the Illinois War and the Utah War. Further, Joseph Smith wrote a prophecy about 9/11 in September of 1831 after he and his brand new Mormon Church were kicked out of New York in 1831 for owning slaves north of the Mason-Dixon line and preaching that the Mormon religion would conquer America. The Mormon prophecy about 9/11 that Joseph Smith wrote in the Mormon Church’s Doctrine & Covenants states:
“For after today cometh the burning for verily I say, tomorrow all the proud and they that do wickedly shall be as stubble; and I will burn them up, for I am the Lord of Hosts; and I will not spare any that remain in Babylon.”
During the “Illinois War” of 1842 - 1844, Smith:
1. Created his “Council of Fifty” to ratify his plan to overthrow the United States
2. Anointed himself “King of Zion”, which held dominion over the United States
3. Began forming the “Nauvoo Legion”, a 100,000-man militia, formed to overthrow the United States with military force
4. Appointed Brigham Young as President of the United States and other members of his “Council of Fifty” as Governors of the various States and Territories.
5. Established the “Melchizedek Priesthood”, as a means of circumventing the Judeo-Christian Laws of America; those with the Melchizedek Priesthood became man-Gods who “held the keys” to circumvent man’s laws and the Laws of Moses.
6. Wrote the great Mormon prophecy, “Daniels Prophecy of the Rise of the Kingdom of God in the Last Days”, which teaches that the Mormon Government will conquer America and create their own “Mormon Kingdom of Zion”.
Note – The Mormon religion still secretly teaches this same theology today, and President Gordon Hinckley referenced this prophecy in 1999.
The Mormon prophecy of "Daniel's Prophecy of the Rise of the Kingdom of God in the Last Days" as documented in, History of the Church, is canon, forms one of the key theological underpinnings of the Mormon religion, was last referred to by Mormon President Gordon Hinckley in 2001 and prophecies that the "religious dispensation" of the Mormon Church conquer America.
Example of anti-Semitism in Mormon theology:
"It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you; but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us." And so it came to pass that as Israel in those days rejected the Gospel of the kingdom which was first offered to them, so God also rejected them; and they have stood rejected to this day; smitten and trodden under foot of the Gentile races, a scoff, a hiss, and a byword in every land that they have inhabited: while the kingdom of God first offered to them was left to other people, to the Gentiles, who, for a season, brought forth the fruits thereof. But the fact that the kingdom then preached to the Jews was taken from them and given to another people, is proof positive that it was not the kingdom which was to fulfill the terms of Daniel's great prophecy.”
Mormon white supremacy:
1. The 1992 “Ruby Ridge” incident involving Randy Weaver (Mormon) in Idaho also involved a multitude of Mormon white-supremacist neo-Nazis who came to his aid. Further, the 1995 OKC bombing was actually “payback” to the US Government for “Ruby Ridge” by Mormon neo-Nazi white Supremacists who hate America.
The events of Ruby Ridge are an American tragedy, and Federal agents kill members of Weaver’s family during their attempts to arrest Weaver. A 12-day standoff ensues involving several hundred Federal agents who surround Weaver’s house and attempt to persuade him to surrender. And, ultimately, a negotiating team led by Bo Gritz, (Mormon), resolves the standoff. But, at one point during the siege, as a TV camera crew interviews Gritz, a woman spectator jumps from the crowd into the camera’s field of view and yells, “The time is now…the Constitution is hanging by a thread!” The reference to the Mormon prophecy about how Mormons will overthrow America is telling, and the Ruby Ridge incident is cited as one of the key motives behind the Oklahoma City bombing. Coincidentally, Bo Gritz is later hired as a consultant for Salt Lake City based Dyno-Nobel, which is later implicated both the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. And, Bo Gritz was a CIA asset.
2. The “Ruby Ridge” incident ended up creating an internal rift in the FBI between Mormon and American factions in the FBI. And, the Mormon faction ultimately helped to cover-up all of the Mormon connections to the 1993 WTC bombing, the 1995 OKC bombing and 9/11. Mormon FBI agent Eugene Glenn, who was later placed in charge of the FBI’s Salt Lake City office, publicly exposed FBI agent Larry Potts as the person responsible for approving the FBI’s aggressive “rules of engagement” for Ruby Ridge from Potts’ office in Washington, D.C.. And, it was these rule of engagement that inadvertently led to members of Weaver’s family being killed. In December of 1994, FBI Director Louis Freeh promoted agent Potts as his Chief Deputy (the # 2 post in the FBI). Coincidentally, Potts is alleged to have been physically inside the Alfred P. Murrah building before, during and after the April 19, 1995 Oklahoma City bombing where the FBI maintained regional offices. After the bombing, in July of 1995, Freeh removed Potts as his # 2 man in the FBI stating, “…[Potts] is unable to perform his duties effectively because of the controversy over the 1992 siege in Idaho”.
3. White-supremacist and neo-Nazi, Chevie Kehoe, a polygamist Mormon, helped finance the 1995 OKC bombing by robbing banks was later arrested in Cedar City, Utah in 1997, which is only 30 miles from the site of the September 11, 1857 Mountain Meadows Massacre.
4. On the morning of April 19, 1995, Chevy Kehoe, Timothy McVeigh’s polygamist bank-robbing associate from Elohim City, was involved in a strange incident in Spokane, Washington where he was attempting to establish a white Aryan nation in the northwest. The manager of the Spokane hotel where Kehoe was staying indicated that Kehoe asked to have the television in the motel lobby turned to CNN about 7:15 AM PST, which was 45-minutes before the Oklahoma City bombing. The manager also stated, "…days before that, he had mentioned to me that there's going to be something happening on the 19th and it's going to wake people up”. The manager also describes Kehoe as being ecstatic when the bombing is announced on television. "It is about time", Kehoe is reportedly to have exclaimed at the time.
5. White supremacist and neo-Nazi Mark Keornke is Mormon and was the leader of the Michigan Milita. Terry Nichols and Tim McVeigh were also members of Keornke’s Michigan militia prior to the 1995 OKC bombing.
6. On the morning of April 19, 1995 at 8:59 a.m. EDT, slightly more than an hour before the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah building, which occurred just after 9:00 a.m. CDT, Texas Congressman Steve Stockman received a mysterious fax referring to an explosion in Oklahoma. The fax was sent by someone known only as “Wolverine” and read, “First update Bldg 7 to 10 floors only Military people on scene - BATF [Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms], F.B.I. Bomb threat received last week. Perpetrator unknown at this time. Oklahoma." It is later learned that Michigan Militia Leader Mark Koernke sent this fax to Stockman.
7. Terry Nichols, Mormon White-supremacist and neo-Nazi, flew to Cebu City, Philippines to meet with Ramzi Yousef in November 1994, 6-months before the 1995 OKC bombing. Ramzi Yousef (Al-Qaida) executed the 1993 WTC bombing and obtained the ammonium nitrate he used to build his bomb from Dyno-Nobel, the Salt Lake City based explosives manufacturer (and CIA front company). Further, a Ryder truck rental was used in the 1993 WTC bombing, and the owner and CEO of Ryder trucks is a Mormon stake president named of Anthony Burns who lives in Florida.
8. On April 19th, Timothy McVeigh (Catholic) detonated an ammonium nitrate bomb that had the same “signature” as the ammonium nitrate bomb that Ramzi Yousef used in the 1993 World Trade Center Bombing. And, yet another a Ryder truck rental was used in the Oklahoma City bombing (we already know the owner and CEO of Ryder trucks is a Mormon stake president by the name of Anthony Burns who lives in Florida).
9. Dyno-Nobel, the Salt Lake City based company that supplied the ammonium nitrate for Ramzi Yousef’s 1993 World Trade Center bombing, is implicated the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing as well. It’s claimed that McVeigh’s ammonium nitrate bomb was actually used to cover-up the signature a much more powerful “electrostatic bomb”, that was actually used to destroy the Murrah building. And, this “electrostatic bomb” was developed at Dyno-Nobel by explosives genius Michael Riconosciuto, the son of Marshall Riconosciuto who originally founded Dyno-Nobel as Hercules Powder. Riconosciuto (not Mormon) found himself surrounded by a multitude of Mormons who had begun infiltrating and “taking over” Dyno-Nobel. Further, the ammonium nitrate that Timothy McVeigh for the Oklahoma City bombing was shipped from the Mormon town of Henderson, Nevada, and the delivery truck, which was purchased at government auction, was painted to resemble a working mail truck. And, in another coincidence, Henderson is only 60-miles from Kingman, Arizona where McVeigh lived just prior to the bombing.
Witnesses to the Oklahoma City bombing on April 19th described the characteristics of an explosion that couldn’t have occurred with an ammonium nitrate bomb. One victim who had was in the HUD office in the Murrah Building described in a National Public Radio interview on May 23, 1995 that she felt a heat wave and a static electricity charge immediately before the windows blew in. Diana Bradley, who lost her mother and two children in the bombing, said she felt electricity running through her body just before the bomb went off. Another victim, Ramona McDonald who was driving about a block away remembers seeing a brilliant flash and described feeling static electricity. She stated, "It made a real loud static electricity sound. It sounded like big swarm of bees…you could actually hear it. The next thing was a real sharp clap, like thunder”. McDonald also described seeing gold and blue flashes of light. Coincidentally, Riconosciuto named his new bomb, “blue lightening”.
10. Timothy McVeigh (Catholic) was surrounded by Mormons in Elohim City, Oklahoma, Kingman, Arizona and Henderson, Nevada (all Mormon Towns). Further, Mormons purposely made McVeigh their “fall guy” because Mormons hate Catholics and Christians, and refer to them as the “The Great Whore”.
11. The Oklahoma City bombing was planned in the polygamist Mormon town of Elohim City, named after the Mormon God Elohim who Mormons believe lives on a planet that revolves around the great governing star of Kolob. Other groups of white supremacist and militias associated with Elohim City included The Order, Covenant Sword and Arm, White Aryan Resistance, Aryan Republican Army and the Michigan Militia.
12. The plot to bomb the Alfred P. Murrah building is allegedly formulated in Elohim City in the fall of 1994 under the guidance of Andreas Strassmeier, a German national, Dennis Mahon, Chevie Kehoe, Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols and others (all Mormons except Strassmeier, and McVeigh). Strassmeier becomes a close friend and confidant of Timothy McVeigh, and is claimed by many investigators to be the “John Doe # 2” who was seen with McVeigh and Nichols at the scene of the Oklahoma City bombing on the morning of April 19th. In addition to training neo-Nazi and militia groups, Strassmeier is also involved in other curious activities, which according to an FBI report dated May 10, 1995, included an attempt to purchase a Boing-747 from Lufthansa Airlines.
13. In 1998, An Oklahoma City Grand Jury investigating the Oklahoma City bombing concludes an 18-month investigation and stated, "…we have not been presented with or uncovered information sufficient to indict any additional conspirators", and they only indict Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols for the bombing. Ironically, during their investigation, and in an effort to satisfy everyone that it really was McVeigh’s ammonium nitrate bomb that destroying the Murrah building, prosecutors called in one bomb expert, and one bomb expert only, to testify on the dynamics of the bombing. And, it turns out that this bomb expert was a gentleman by the name of Robert Hopler who had just recently retired from Dyno-Nobel, the same Salt Lake City based explosives manufacturer that supplied the ammonium nitrate used by Ramzi Yousef for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and the “electrostatic bomb” that alleged was the more powerful bomb that actually destroyed the Murrah building. Not surprisingly, Hopler testified that the ammonium nitrate bomb made by McVeigh provided all of the destructive force needed to destroy the Alfred P. Murrah building.
14. In July of 2000, Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehi, two of the four 9/11 terrorist pilots, began training at Huffman Aviation in Venice, Florida. Atta and Al-Shehi each paid Rudi Dekkers an inflated price of $28,000 to begin their flight training. And, it also turns out that the secret owner of Huffman Aviation is actually a man by the name of Wallace Hilliard, who is a Mormon Bishop. Further, 3-weeks after Atta and Al-Shehi began training at Huffman, Wallace Hilliard’s Learjet was surrounded by DEA agents who seized the Learjet and the 43-pounds of heroin found on-board. Coincidentally, heroin is Osama Bin Laden’s main export out of the Golden Triangle area of Pakistan.
All Comments
He's evil.
Is Orson Scott Card a mormon? The pope Catholic? The Oklahoma City bombing done by another extremists? Colorado next to Utah?
By all means yes. There should be a law requiring women to pump out as many little dysfunctional consumers as they can!
Feel free to regulate your own biological functions.
Fortunately, when I was called a queer by other kids, I didn't know what it meant. But then again, my parents were so uptight about sex that I thought women just sort of made babies once there was a magical wedding ceremony.
Now that I think about it, the kid who called me a queer became very interested in fiddling around once the hormones started rushing through his system.
No one familiar with Mormon beliefs, who knows their teachings and their history and their goal of controlling the US government, will take any of this lightly.
No, really!
No, R E A L L Y . . .
Frederick Bliss, P.Q. Gump, Byron Walley, Brian Green, Dinah Kirkham, Noam D. Pellume, and Scott Richards.
Orson Scott Card is about as disgustingly, hatefully, twisted, sick and bigoted as I can imagine. I know now why I so disliked his writings and never again will be tempted to buy and read his work.
To be honest, for believers, the Bible provides adequate reasons to be anti-gay. If that were as far as they went, they would be entitled to their opinions. When they slip over the line to lying and spouting extremist anti-gay rhetoric, claiming that government is part of the gay conspiracy and intends to destroy marriage, they lose any claim to being entitled to those opinions. As for sexual monogramy, ah, yes, like Gingrich and such, serial sexual monogamy, though we know in fact that he cheated a lot on each of his spouses.
If you ask me, Card sounds as batshit as Rev. Fred Phelps for this talk of destroying our government.
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I'm getting this from it...
Orson Scott Card = Jim Jones in the making
Dear members of the LDS church,
Don't drink the Flavor-Aide
the only difference I'm seeing? Jim Jones actually liked the gays before he went completely loopy.
"Conspiracy theories" -- but his and his fantasy cult can do whatever they want.
And that whole rambling of biological imperative proves just how he's not that great a thinker. "Two dimensional" Card is what they should call him.
Mr. Card, a better writer and wit than you said "Heterosexuality isn't normal, it's just common" -- kinda like you. You're not normal, you're just common.
Agreed--pity is merited here.
After reading 'Songhouse' and the original short-story that became 'Ender's Game', I felt Card had some insight into children. Plainly those days are long past, and all that's left is a hateful, fearful person unsure of himself or his place, and terrified of some ambiguous 'Other'.
Yet another role model for me to trot out to explain why I left Religion behind.....
Next comes the War Against Santa Claus.
(She's also always trying to get me out of my full-blown atheist state. Not gonna happen.)
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Killer_000.htm
Honestly, these folks would be happier living under the Taliban than a nation with civil rights like the United States. Just replace 'Allah' with 'Jesus' and they're good to go.
OK this is definitely getting crazy.
And so much for people defending queenie's "opinion". These opinions are ones that led to destruction. They must be brought to justice before they do instill damage.
It's a shame, but the older he gets, the harder it seems to be for him to function in the real world as it is now. It's a truly sad thing to watch someone I always admired as a writer go flying happily off the deep end.
Oh, FYI, I'm a happy little wiccan woman, who's occasionally, opportunistically bi, so I'd be one of the first on the fires should the fundies ever take over, and I still mourn this once great writer's current descent into madness.
he talks about attack/assault on marriage... I'm still baffled as to how my marriage affects HIS.
give me a clue here... does it make him feel like he might have a reason to experiment or something??
I just don't get it.
Imagine if it were legal to be a Buddhist or a Jew. Then the schools would teach children that it is all right, and they would all leave Christianity for other religions. Better to get rid of that "insane Constitution" all together.
Already dubbed; The DiVinci Code -meets- Brokeback Mountain -meets- The Work and The Glory!
The story is about a group of Gay men who have been protecting the Mormon Church for nearly 200 years!
I've already started to get fan and hate mail, which is to be expected but my platform is to entertain, and bring more attention to Male Survivors of Sexual Assault and Rape(I am a survivor).
Orson Card is a very talented author who has a chip on his shoulder and I hope he rediscovers his true Christianity.
I am glad to see Matthew Holland stepping down from NOM and continuing to foster minds in education which is a scary thought considering his views. Matthew and I served together in Scotland for 2 years.
If you check out my website and blog, you will understand why I will be persecuted for my work of Fiction. The days of "normal" are not over, for they were never here. : )
www.thestallionwarriors.blogspot.com
www.brianbeckstead.webs.com
Further, the Joseph Smith actually wrote a prophecy about 9/11 in 1831 and Mormons dressed up as Indians and massacred 120 innocent men women and children who were traveling through southern Utah in 1857. THE MASSACRE OCCURRED ON 9/11 1857.
Overview of Mormon Religion & Theology:
The Mormon Church is a separatist organization that has fought 3-wars with the United States since 1830, the Missouri War, the Illinois War and the Utah War. Further, Joseph Smith wrote a prophecy about 9/11 in September of 1831 after he and his brand new Mormon Church were kicked out of New York in 1831 for owning slaves north of the Mason-Dixon line and preaching that the Mormon religion would conquer America. The Mormon prophecy about 9/11 that Joseph Smith wrote in the Mormon Church’s Doctrine & Covenants states:
“For after today cometh the burning for verily I say, tomorrow all the proud and they that do wickedly shall be as stubble; and I will burn them up, for I am the Lord of Hosts; and I will not spare any that remain in Babylon.”
During the “Illinois War” of 1842 - 1844, Smith:
1. Created his “Council of Fifty” to ratify his plan to overthrow the United States
2. Anointed himself “King of Zion”, which held dominion over the United States
3. Began forming the “Nauvoo Legion”, a 100,000-man militia, formed to overthrow the United States with military force
4. Appointed Brigham Young as President of the United States and other members of his “Council of Fifty” as Governors of the various States and Territories.
5. Established the “Melchizedek Priesthood”, as a means of circumventing the Judeo-Christian Laws of America; those with the Melchizedek Priesthood became man-Gods who “held the keys” to circumvent man’s laws and the Laws of Moses.
6. Wrote the great Mormon prophecy, “Daniels Prophecy of the Rise of the Kingdom of God in the Last Days”, which teaches that the Mormon Government will conquer America and create their own “Mormon Kingdom of Zion”.
Note – The Mormon religion still secretly teaches this same theology today, and President Gordon Hinckley referenced this prophecy in 1999.
The Mormon prophecy of "Daniel's Prophecy of the Rise of the Kingdom of God in the Last Days" as documented in, History of the Church, is canon, forms one of the key theological underpinnings of the Mormon religion, was last referred to by Mormon President Gordon Hinckley in 2001 and prophecies that the "religious dispensation" of the Mormon Church conquer America.
Example of anti-Semitism in Mormon theology:
"It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you; but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us." And so it came to pass that as Israel in those days rejected the Gospel of the kingdom which was first offered to them, so God also rejected them; and they have stood rejected to this day; smitten and trodden under foot of the Gentile races, a scoff, a hiss, and a byword in every land that they have inhabited: while the kingdom of God first offered to them was left to other people, to the Gentiles, who, for a season, brought forth the fruits thereof. But the fact that the kingdom then preached to the Jews was taken from them and given to another people, is proof positive that it was not the kingdom which was to fulfill the terms of Daniel's great prophecy.”
Mormon white supremacy:
1. The 1992 “Ruby Ridge” incident involving Randy Weaver (Mormon) in Idaho also involved a multitude of Mormon white-supremacist neo-Nazis who came to his aid. Further, the 1995 OKC bombing was actually “payback” to the US Government for “Ruby Ridge” by Mormon neo-Nazi white Supremacists who hate America.
The events of Ruby Ridge are an American tragedy, and Federal agents kill members of Weaver’s family during their attempts to arrest Weaver. A 12-day standoff ensues involving several hundred Federal agents who surround Weaver’s house and attempt to persuade him to surrender. And, ultimately, a negotiating team led by Bo Gritz, (Mormon), resolves the standoff. But, at one point during the siege, as a TV camera crew interviews Gritz, a woman spectator jumps from the crowd into the camera’s field of view and yells, “The time is now…the Constitution is hanging by a thread!” The reference to the Mormon prophecy about how Mormons will overthrow America is telling, and the Ruby Ridge incident is cited as one of the key motives behind the Oklahoma City bombing. Coincidentally, Bo Gritz is later hired as a consultant for Salt Lake City based Dyno-Nobel, which is later implicated both the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. And, Bo Gritz was a CIA asset.
2. The “Ruby Ridge” incident ended up creating an internal rift in the FBI between Mormon and American factions in the FBI. And, the Mormon faction ultimately helped to cover-up all of the Mormon connections to the 1993 WTC bombing, the 1995 OKC bombing and 9/11. Mormon FBI agent Eugene Glenn, who was later placed in charge of the FBI’s Salt Lake City office, publicly exposed FBI agent Larry Potts as the person responsible for approving the FBI’s aggressive “rules of engagement” for Ruby Ridge from Potts’ office in Washington, D.C.. And, it was these rule of engagement that inadvertently led to members of Weaver’s family being killed. In December of 1994, FBI Director Louis Freeh promoted agent Potts as his Chief Deputy (the # 2 post in the FBI). Coincidentally, Potts is alleged to have been physically inside the Alfred P. Murrah building before, during and after the April 19, 1995 Oklahoma City bombing where the FBI maintained regional offices. After the bombing, in July of 1995, Freeh removed Potts as his # 2 man in the FBI stating, “…[Potts] is unable to perform his duties effectively because of the controversy over the 1992 siege in Idaho”.
3. White-supremacist and neo-Nazi, Chevie Kehoe, a polygamist Mormon, helped finance the 1995 OKC bombing by robbing banks was later arrested in Cedar City, Utah in 1997, which is only 30 miles from the site of the September 11, 1857 Mountain Meadows Massacre.
4. On the morning of April 19, 1995, Chevy Kehoe, Timothy McVeigh’s polygamist bank-robbing associate from Elohim City, was involved in a strange incident in Spokane, Washington where he was attempting to establish a white Aryan nation in the northwest. The manager of the Spokane hotel where Kehoe was staying indicated that Kehoe asked to have the television in the motel lobby turned to CNN about 7:15 AM PST, which was 45-minutes before the Oklahoma City bombing. The manager also stated, "…days before that, he had mentioned to me that there's going to be something happening on the 19th and it's going to wake people up”. The manager also describes Kehoe as being ecstatic when the bombing is announced on television. "It is about time", Kehoe is reportedly to have exclaimed at the time.
5. White supremacist and neo-Nazi Mark Keornke is Mormon and was the leader of the Michigan Milita. Terry Nichols and Tim McVeigh were also members of Keornke’s Michigan militia prior to the 1995 OKC bombing.
6. On the morning of April 19, 1995 at 8:59 a.m. EDT, slightly more than an hour before the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah building, which occurred just after 9:00 a.m. CDT, Texas Congressman Steve Stockman received a mysterious fax referring to an explosion in Oklahoma. The fax was sent by someone known only as “Wolverine” and read, “First update Bldg 7 to 10 floors only Military people on scene - BATF [Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms], F.B.I. Bomb threat received last week. Perpetrator unknown at this time. Oklahoma." It is later learned that Michigan Militia Leader Mark Koernke sent this fax to Stockman.
7. Terry Nichols, Mormon White-supremacist and neo-Nazi, flew to Cebu City, Philippines to meet with Ramzi Yousef in November 1994, 6-months before the 1995 OKC bombing. Ramzi Yousef (Al-Qaida) executed the 1993 WTC bombing and obtained the ammonium nitrate he used to build his bomb from Dyno-Nobel, the Salt Lake City based explosives manufacturer (and CIA front company). Further, a Ryder truck rental was used in the 1993 WTC bombing, and the owner and CEO of Ryder trucks is a Mormon stake president named of Anthony Burns who lives in Florida.
8. On April 19th, Timothy McVeigh (Catholic) detonated an ammonium nitrate bomb that had the same “signature” as the ammonium nitrate bomb that Ramzi Yousef used in the 1993 World Trade Center Bombing. And, yet another a Ryder truck rental was used in the Oklahoma City bombing (we already know the owner and CEO of Ryder trucks is a Mormon stake president by the name of Anthony Burns who lives in Florida).
9. Dyno-Nobel, the Salt Lake City based company that supplied the ammonium nitrate for Ramzi Yousef’s 1993 World Trade Center bombing, is implicated the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing as well. It’s claimed that McVeigh’s ammonium nitrate bomb was actually used to cover-up the signature a much more powerful “electrostatic bomb”, that was actually used to destroy the Murrah building. And, this “electrostatic bomb” was developed at Dyno-Nobel by explosives genius Michael Riconosciuto, the son of Marshall Riconosciuto who originally founded Dyno-Nobel as Hercules Powder. Riconosciuto (not Mormon) found himself surrounded by a multitude of Mormons who had begun infiltrating and “taking over” Dyno-Nobel. Further, the ammonium nitrate that Timothy McVeigh for the Oklahoma City bombing was shipped from the Mormon town of Henderson, Nevada, and the delivery truck, which was purchased at government auction, was painted to resemble a working mail truck. And, in another coincidence, Henderson is only 60-miles from Kingman, Arizona where McVeigh lived just prior to the bombing.
Witnesses to the Oklahoma City bombing on April 19th described the characteristics of an explosion that couldn’t have occurred with an ammonium nitrate bomb. One victim who had was in the HUD office in the Murrah Building described in a National Public Radio interview on May 23, 1995 that she felt a heat wave and a static electricity charge immediately before the windows blew in. Diana Bradley, who lost her mother and two children in the bombing, said she felt electricity running through her body just before the bomb went off. Another victim, Ramona McDonald who was driving about a block away remembers seeing a brilliant flash and described feeling static electricity. She stated, "It made a real loud static electricity sound. It sounded like big swarm of bees…you could actually hear it. The next thing was a real sharp clap, like thunder”. McDonald also described seeing gold and blue flashes of light. Coincidentally, Riconosciuto named his new bomb, “blue lightening”.
10. Timothy McVeigh (Catholic) was surrounded by Mormons in Elohim City, Oklahoma, Kingman, Arizona and Henderson, Nevada (all Mormon Towns). Further, Mormons purposely made McVeigh their “fall guy” because Mormons hate Catholics and Christians, and refer to them as the “The Great Whore”.
11. The Oklahoma City bombing was planned in the polygamist Mormon town of Elohim City, named after the Mormon God Elohim who Mormons believe lives on a planet that revolves around the great governing star of Kolob. Other groups of white supremacist and militias associated with Elohim City included The Order, Covenant Sword and Arm, White Aryan Resistance, Aryan Republican Army and the Michigan Militia.
12. The plot to bomb the Alfred P. Murrah building is allegedly formulated in Elohim City in the fall of 1994 under the guidance of Andreas Strassmeier, a German national, Dennis Mahon, Chevie Kehoe, Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols and others (all Mormons except Strassmeier, and McVeigh). Strassmeier becomes a close friend and confidant of Timothy McVeigh, and is claimed by many investigators to be the “John Doe # 2” who was seen with McVeigh and Nichols at the scene of the Oklahoma City bombing on the morning of April 19th. In addition to training neo-Nazi and militia groups, Strassmeier is also involved in other curious activities, which according to an FBI report dated May 10, 1995, included an attempt to purchase a Boing-747 from Lufthansa Airlines.
13. In 1998, An Oklahoma City Grand Jury investigating the Oklahoma City bombing concludes an 18-month investigation and stated, "…we have not been presented with or uncovered information sufficient to indict any additional conspirators", and they only indict Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols for the bombing. Ironically, during their investigation, and in an effort to satisfy everyone that it really was McVeigh’s ammonium nitrate bomb that destroying the Murrah building, prosecutors called in one bomb expert, and one bomb expert only, to testify on the dynamics of the bombing. And, it turns out that this bomb expert was a gentleman by the name of Robert Hopler who had just recently retired from Dyno-Nobel, the same Salt Lake City based explosives manufacturer that supplied the ammonium nitrate used by Ramzi Yousef for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and the “electrostatic bomb” that alleged was the more powerful bomb that actually destroyed the Murrah building. Not surprisingly, Hopler testified that the ammonium nitrate bomb made by McVeigh provided all of the destructive force needed to destroy the Alfred P. Murrah building.
14. In July of 2000, Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehi, two of the four 9/11 terrorist pilots, began training at Huffman Aviation in Venice, Florida. Atta and Al-Shehi each paid Rudi Dekkers an inflated price of $28,000 to begin their flight training. And, it also turns out that the secret owner of Huffman Aviation is actually a man by the name of Wallace Hilliard, who is a Mormon Bishop. Further, 3-weeks after Atta and Al-Shehi began training at Huffman, Wallace Hilliard’s Learjet was surrounded by DEA agents who seized the Learjet and the 43-pounds of heroin found on-board. Coincidentally, heroin is Osama Bin Laden’s main export out of the Golden Triangle area of Pakistan.
Read More - www.MormonZeitgeist.com