DISQUS

Emily68 · 6 months ago

Try to remain calm about post-death baptism. I figure if Mormons are busy doing that, it'll help keep them out of trouble.

I'm pretty much a nonbeliever and I don't see what possible harm post-death baptism can do. But for those who see baptism as important, if they learn their dear departed have been baptised by Mormons, they can undo the Mormon baptism. Just find out what words they say during the ceremony and say them backwards.

factbased · 6 months ago

It's actually even easier than that if you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Halfway through your next pasta dish, simply snap your fingers 3 times and all your dear departed will be unbaptized!

Anon · 6 months ago

Luckily China is important enough that the ambassador can and will be bypassed as necessary.

Indigo · 6 months ago

With any luck at all, they'll waterboard him.

bw · 6 months ago

Whoever the Mormon is is very out of touch with the rules for religions in China. Proselytizing is forbidden. There is no way Mr. Huntsman can tract door to door with his little book of mormon. This is just another comment by an extremely out of touch member. He must live in Happy Valley (Utah County). As far as the "lying for the Lord" I was a member and never heard of that. I do recall seeing that same quote on another website last year referring to Muslims.

John Aravosis · 6 months ago

It's a country of a billion people, all he needs to do is slip a few in. As for Lying for the Lord, feel free to Google the topic, it's well documented.

nicho · 6 months ago

Exactly. Mitt Romney was quoted -- by a Mormon woman -- saying that he was told by the "brethren" in SLC that he could say whatever he wanted or take whatever position he needed to in order to get elected -- so he could pursue the mission of the church once in office.

This was a pro-choice Mormon woman who was surprised that Romney was acting pro-choice while in MA.

g · 6 months ago

And there was this lady...
and she said that so and so said this...
and...and...I heard that Mormons do this...
and...and...and

d-d-dee

Ben Dover · 6 months ago

If the Chinese think the Communist Party is bad, just wait till they meet the Mormon Cultists.

Jim Olson · 6 months ago

Isn't there anyone else who speaks chinese that the President could send?

SCLiberal · 6 months ago

I know, it's a covert attempt to start a war with China because they want international trade in a currency other than the U.S. dollar!

(snark...)

mtiffany · 6 months ago

"...in matters concerning their faith, they have shown that you cannot trust them at their word. Their promises come second to their faith."

Doesn't that pretty much sum up every religion, not just Mormonism?

nicho · 6 months ago

But with the Mormons, it's official not just something that happens.

Micawber · 6 months ago

It's official? What official statement are you referring to?

Southern Beale · 6 months ago

He will have to fight the Southern Baptists tooth and nail over that one. LOL.

KerrynowCampau · 6 months ago

Good luck converting a communist government that has been trying to control the birth rate to moronism
That is what he would have to do
He won't be allowed to go door to door

Older_Wiser · 6 months ago

Although the LDS church’s missionary program has an ecclesiastical presence throughout many parts of the world, the countries with the largest population bases (China and India) are not currently open to the church’s missionary efforts.

Aren't the Mormons trying to make Utah the third largest population base?

davespicer · 6 months ago

Huntsman's nomination seems very likely to shine some more light on both the "teaching mandate" and the baptism of the dead. It'd be one hell of a chess move to have nominated him precisely for this reason... the resulting outcry seems unlikely to be very helpful to the LDS or the GOP, while the Administration can say, "See? We *tried* to reach across the aisle..."

KarenMrsLloydRichards · 6 months ago

Pissing off a billion Chinese people is worth it to Obama: he exiles a potential GOP rival for the next couple of election cycles.

Now THAT'S a power play.

AdmNAismith · 6 months ago

What even makes this guy qualified for this job? Make him our envoy to Haiti, or something, zombieism is something he seems to enjoy.

Mum48 · 6 months ago

He speaks the language. He has lived in the country. He has served as a governor, and has been a fairly progressive leader (for a Republican). What other qualifications would you require? And . . . zombiesm? What are you - seven?

fredndallas · 6 months ago

Excellent catch, John. Could Obama be smart enough to have calculated this automatic way of exposing how the infiltration of such religious fanaticism distorts the good of the USA? Could the "opportunity" to further Mormonism be why this Repub star decided to accept the appointment? Fascinating stuff.

Yah I think Obama could be that smart and it will serve our community's interests if he is. It certainly is NOT serving our community's interests that he has been smart enough to outsmart the hell out of us! Did you see that Pentagon statement this morning that more or less said the country's President is NOT in charge of the military. Huh?! (At least not when it comes to fagots in uniform, apparently.)

We live in interesting times.

mardod · 6 months ago

Lead, meet balloon.

scytherius · 6 months ago

Speaking as a former Mormon (Stake President and Bishop) I don't believe for one second that Huntsman will do that. Believe me, the Mormon Church is far worse than you think it is (why I left). However, Huntsman's moderate to liberal social attitudes is quite a-typical for a Mormon. He is actually an embarassment for the Mormon leadership. He is talked about behind his back as "not a real Saint". Of course members in power will make assanine statements like these, however I would be floored if Huntsman tried anything so damned stupid. I was a leader in the Mormon Church a very long time and I just know the type.

Anon · 6 months ago

Thanks for this "insider view". Sounds very plausible given what we know of Huntsman (and I have known a few deeply heterodox Mormons who stayed in the church without personal incident, so I can imagine). I guess Huntsman will be all right.

LowKey · 6 months ago

And Huntsman has been fighting for GLBT rights in Utah ever since taking office. Now the fight in Utah is so far behind the rest of the country its pathetic, true, but you will find that the right wingers in Utah despise Huntsman for his efforts on gay and other issues. He is viewed as a liberal by them.

Talk about stabbing your freinds in the back.

Donald Orlando · 6 months ago

If all those chinese can become gods of their own world in the next life, it would certainly be better than what Communism promises in this life! With all those future baptisms in the making, the Chinese might even clean up their water resources. Everybody will win.

tballou · 6 months ago

I think it is hilarious how many commenters think this is some kind of master plan by Obama! The man is just not that clever - all he cares about is getting through the next 3 years so he can get re-elected.

Mini Clover · 6 months ago

But... but... he's playing a billion dimensional chess game! < /snark >

Mum48 · 6 months ago

Really? Which commenters? And your comment about Obama is ridiculous. Your bridge is calling.

DrToast · 6 months ago

Huntsman is a business man. And if there's one thing businessmen love more than god, even the Mormans, it's money. He's not going to do anything to screw this up.

Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood) · 6 months ago

Oh no, he must be an all powerful immortal Super-Mormon to be able to convert billions of "heathen" Chinese just by showing up. I live in the middle of the Mormon southwest and not one single person has attempted convert me .

Mum48 · 6 months ago

Thank you for quelling the hysteria. One of my favorite places in the country is Utah, especially the southwestern part. I've talked to many people who live there or have lived there and who, like me, are not Mormon. They've never been approached by anyone to convert, and not being Mormon has never interfered with any part of their lives.

Valentine Frey · 6 months ago

Nice post John. I suspect this won't get a lot of play though. What's the difference between a sleazy creepy little cult group and a religion? Time and size. In terms of social perceptions the Mormons have been transitioning through a sort of gray area in between cult and religion since the seventies when they wised up and decided to drop the stuff about blacks not being people. Ironically enough, fundamentalist Christians are the only people consistently talking about just how whacked out Mormon beliefs are. For everyone else Mormonism is starting to fall under the gentlemen-don't-talk-about-the-insanity-implicit-in-other-people's-beliefs exemption.

Dave of the Jungle · 6 months ago

The Chinese are a shrewd and, at times, ruthless people. They are fiercely proud of their own traditions, which have exceptionally deep historical roots. They will NOT be converted to some goofball 19th Century American religion.

Paul Waldrop · 6 months ago

You say "the Chinese" like they're all the same person. There is such a thing as an individual and individual choice.

Also, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints is far more than a "19th century American religion". It has developed outside the 19th century much longer now than it existed within it. To call it "American" is in many ways fair. However, it is becoming increasingly international and will continue to do so.

HiveRadical · 6 months ago

The claim that there is a doctrine of "Lying for the Lord" is a false but clever poisoning of the well tactic on the part of those opposed to our faith. There is no such doctrine.

This article has so many misrepresentations it's hardly funny and the misrepresentations are of the sort that they either demonstrate complete ineptitude on the part of the author OR the author is intentionally lying.

Dave of the Jungle · 6 months ago

I have caught Mormon missionary boys using such tactics numerous times. It may not be a "doctrine" by someones definition but it has been pervasively observed by me and by others that important LDS beliefs are habitually denied when talking to potential converts. It's obviously a commonly employed public relations method.

Micawber · 6 months ago

Really, Dave? Care to give any examples?

Dave of the Jungle · 6 months ago

Try asking a Mormon Missionary if God has a physical body, a penis, lives on another planet and has sex with numerous partners every day.

Bett · 6 months ago

Yeah, and don't forget to ask about "Kolob", and Joseph Smith marrying 14 year olds. I'm sure you'll get a real straightforward answer.

Tom · 6 months ago

Right, because of course there really IS a straightforward answer. :-P

Paul Waldrop · 6 months ago

ANY Latter-day Saint will tell you that God has a physical body!

As for "a penis, lives on another planet and has sex with numerous partners every day". . .regardless of what anyone may or may not have said (leader or member) to this regard, all of those things are speculation and not binding on any member of the Church. The only exception in that sentence would be possibly "lives on another planet", or place.

Honestly! Find me one passage in the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, or Pearl of Great Price that refers to God's penis or "multiple sex partners" and I'll admit that I was wrong.

DavidinPS · 6 months ago

Or you are lying for the lord.

jkshaw · 6 months ago

Proselytizing not allowed. State Department rules. Also, Huntsman is too smart to try it. The representative posting that, judging by a couple of other things he's suggested, is certifiable.

tiredofgreed · 6 months ago

Is the analysis in this article a joke or serious? If it is serious I believe the writer has taken journalism lessons from Fox News. Deal in facts please.

dg · 6 months ago

Governor Huntsman speaks fluent Mandarin. He has lived and traveled extensively to China and led trade missions to China. He has a deep understanding of China on a cultural, political and business level.

He is former ambassador to Singapore. He knows and is on a first name basis with many of China’s leaders. They seem to look at him very favorably.

Lastly, and perhaps most important to people in the in the adoption community, about seven years ago, Governor Huntsman adopted a little baby girl from China.

Greg · 6 months ago

A wingnut crackpot talking shit is hardly reason to get hysterical. Huntsman is moderate, experienced, and respected by everyone except for the GOP base. Allowing your inherent distaste for anything to do with Mormonism to overrun your objectivity accomplishes nothing and does your credibility no favors.

A1 · 6 months ago

Seriously John, you have an anti mormon bent, and its inappropriate.
And this "forcibly converting jews to mormonism" is the kind of over the top hyperbole we have come to expect from the right.

Buffy2q · 6 months ago

I see the Morg have already descended upon you, accusing you of anti-Mormon bigotry and trying to deny Lying for the Lord. Yeah, there's an official policy against proselytizing but since when has that ever stopped them? God's law is above man's, after all.

booYa · 6 months ago

LDS can defiantly be wacko (as can most religions at times), but I'm beginning to think the "Church of John" is getting even wackier. WE GET IT YOU HATE EVERYTHING LDS. Now time to leave it and move on.

Love this site, read it alot, but sometimes it goes way the hell off the deep end. Lets talk about something important like... list the NY senators we need to contact to convert their vote on gay marriage?

booYa · 6 months ago

John, I'll start you off...
anyone in Central New York should contact Senator David Valesky. tell him to vote affirmative on marriage equity.

justadood · 6 months ago

thought you might find this interesting.

msirt · 6 months ago

If they want to baptize everyone on earth, that's their problem. They can splash all the water on my name they want (I'm Jewish), as long as they don't splash it on ME and get me wet. Nothing will change by it. My future salvation or damnation does not hang in the balance because there is no future salvation or damnation.

Secular Liberal · 6 months ago

Mormons are liars and traitors and fools. They should not be allowed to vote or be citizens of the US.

Tolerance only extends so far.

Mum48 · 6 months ago

This is the United States. You certainly can't be serious.

Andrew · 6 months ago

Uh, John? We have had Mormon senators, Mormon congresspeople, and a Mormon presidential candidate. The U.S. is not about to be a Mormon nation, so I don't think the Chinese have anything to worry about.

Besides, the LDS can want him to preach all it wants to. If he does not, what are they going to do?

bicyclemark · 6 months ago

Dutch friend of mine just came back from a contract job with the mormon church.. one thing he said upon his return: "Ill tell you, the mormons deserve credit, they speak more languages than any other group in America"

haha.

William Law · 6 months ago

What has been the net effect of over 100 years of LDS Inc maintaining the worlds largest standing army of missionaries to spread Joseph's Myth across the world?

12 million members of the Mormon crutch. There are 6.8 billion people in the world, which means Mormons make up .18% of the world's population.

Less than 1/5th of 1% of the world's population. Pretty much negligible compared to the vast and growing number of those who consider themselves "No Religion" across the world, without the efforts of a standing army of 60,000 missionaries spreading the so-called 'truth'.
Truth comes to light naturally over time and doesn't require door to door salesmen to impose it upon gullible sheep.

M.B. · 6 months ago

This is quite the hysterical post. Are we really expected to believe that Jon Huntsman is going to jeopardize his career in public service by using his post as ambassador to conduct covert missionary activities? Please.

Paul Waldrop · 6 months ago

Oh come on. This article is ridiculous in the extreme.

1. "soon to be US Ambassador to China, Republican governor of Utah Jon Huntsman, himself a Mormon, is under ecclesiastical mandate to proselytize to the Chinese when he goes to there to be Obama's ambassador. He has no choice."

This is just untrue Mr. Huntsman will not be under "an ecclesiastical mandate to proselytize". He is there to serve his country and Latter-day Saints believe in "obeying, honoring and sustaining the law". We also ALWAYS have a Choice. Agency, or the ability to choose for ones self is a major and basic tenant of our faith.

2. "Let Huntsman deny it. Let Obama deny it. It doesn't matter. Our next Ambassador to China will be using his post to try to convert the Chinese to Mormonism, and more generally, to let the Mormons into China where they can then run around the country and spread their ideology."

Mr. Huntsman will be in China using his post to do his job as Ambassador. That is his Civic and Professional duty. The best thing he could do to further the cause of his faith in China, would to just be a quiet example of a good Latter-day Saint. . .which it is my guess that he will do just that.

3. "The Mormons have spent the past two decades secretly baptizing dead Jewish Holocaust victims and forcibly converting them to Mormonism"

You refer to "The Mormons" like they are a single person or entity without any reference to there being individuals who make right or wrong choices. I'm a Mormon and to my knowledge I have never submitted a name for nor participated in the proxy baptism of a Jewish Holocaust victim. I wish whoever did those things hadn't. I do believe if I was a descendant of a Holocaust victim and a Latter-day Saint I would have a right to participate in behalf of my ancestors though.

Also, Mormons don't believe ANYONE can be forcibly converted. This would be against one of the fundamental points of our doctrine (that I've stated before).

4. "If Jon Hunstman is required by God to secretly help the Mormons infiltrate China - and he is - then that is what Jon Huntsman will do as our next Ambassador to China. You can bet on it. Pity the poor Chinese. They have no idea what's about to happen to them."

Give me a break! . .as if you know what Mr. Huntsman is "required by God" to do. You obviously know nothing substantial about the teachings and doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ( or "Mormonism").

H.Franklin · 6 months ago

"Lying for the lord" I love it! Hilarious! Good thing it has no basis in fact... nice try!

Herb Marcuse · 6 months ago

Of course it's our duty to convert people... especially those who were born with *dark and loathsome* skins. This is a curse which was placed upon those who did not follow God and Christ during the great war in heaven, which took place in the pre-existence.

The Chinese are such people. Only through the light of Mormonism can they be saved from their iniquity. Read the statements of all the prophets for more on this.

Donovan G · 6 months ago

haha. how retarded