DISQUS

UncleGlenny · 1 year ago

Yeah. Being called a bigot for a few days (parking laws necessitated the SUV be moved after some amount of time) is really comparable.

[expletives omitted]

Bush_Bites · 1 year ago

If proposition 8 passes, this will have to be a full time thing.

These people think they'll be off the hook after November 4.

That can't happen.

tbhull · 1 year ago

Politics is the art of compromise. Perhaps Proposition 8 backers should open up to the idea of allowing more than one spouse, same sex or not. Magic undergarments Mitt and all other Mormons is this acceptable?

dacnova · 1 year ago

I'm going to put Latter Days in the DVD player now

smiling_dog · 1 year ago

The best bet for No on 8 is to go after the fact that it is funded by the Mormon Church in Utah. If they aren't taking that angle (I live in Cali, but don't watch the tube), they are making a big mistake.

Mickey7 · 1 year ago

I agree and wonder why that angle hasn't been pressed a little harder. What in the world is a church group from Utah doing meddling in Califonia state politics? It ticks me off and I'm not even a Californian.

Quite_Contrary · 1 year ago

The North County Times, a Wingnut daily in northern San Diego County, ran a front page story this morning about how residents of the area have donated more than $1 million to the pro-Prop H8 campaign. Amazingly, there was NO reference in the article to Mormons or the Mormon church.

I've emailed the writers, asking for an explanation of why they left out this very significant information. (The area is infested with well-to-do Mormons.)

http://nctimes.com/articles/2008/10/27/news/san...

Mickey7 · 1 year ago

Anti-gay hate crime up: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-10-27-...

Thanks Mormon church and Christian jihadists.

red_dwarf · 1 year ago

Religious hypocrits, they're a dime a dozen.

avatar133 · 1 year ago

I'm curious about the tax implications. Aren't exempt organizations, like churches, supposed to stay out of direct lobbying/meddling in political issues in order to keep their tax exempt status? I've never seen such a direct connection between a church and a single-vote issue. It'd be nice if the IRS would announce an investigation sometime between now and the election.

UncleGlenny · 1 year ago

Hitting the Mormon Church would be quite a windfall....

KSUwildcat · 1 year ago

I think it's way past time to chuck all tax exemptions for churches and land and housing owned by churches. There is no separation of church and state anymore. Since churches are sticking their noses into politics, it's time they pay their fair share for government services like the rest of us. When my husband was running for reelection as state representative in a Kansas district that was 26% democratic, he was sitting in church when the priest did everything but say his name as he was telling the congregation who NOT to vote for. He won that election but never again darkened the door of the church where he'd been a member for 18 years. His mortal sin? He was a baby killer for not voting for extra regulations and red tape for abortion clinics. The democratic caucus offered to add those requirements to ALL clinics if they were so necessary and the Repubs wouldn't go along with that. Obviously it was just a ploy to restrict abortion rights and not about the safety of patients. That incident was certainly an eye opener to me and I haven't had anyone be able to explain why churches aren't taxed. Especially religions such as crazy Phelps in Topeka and the Roman Catholic Church who are the biggest land owners in the U.S.

Mickey7 · 1 year ago

Amen! (No pun intended). I run a 501 c 3 org and we have to be very careful about political or religous activity to maintain our tax exempt status--that's the law and you know it when you apply for the exemption. It galls me no end to have these preachers and religious groups deliberately flout the law and essentially dare the government to do anything about it.

cyninbend · 1 year ago

I agree completely. There is no reason they should not pay taxes. We non-church members are subsidizing their religious practices and wealth accumulation by paying more so they get free services. This is NOT separation of church and state.

cole3244 · 1 year ago

as usual the religious bigots in america hide behind the bible to promote their hatred of others, i guess to the mormons having multiple partners is preferable to two gay people having a one on one loving relationship, and the religious right thinks they are the moral ones in america, lol!

yeson8 · 1 year ago

The fact that the author of this article believes that Warren Jeffs is a Mormon should be enough to discredit him as a reliable source of information. Polygamy is not tolerated in the Mormon church and anyone found practicing it is excommunicated. Jeffs is the prophet of the FLDS religion which is completely seperate from the LDS church.

I recommend this article directly from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' newsroom website for anyone interested in actually finding out the full reason for the church's active support of proposition 8.

http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/comment...

As for the ways mentioned in this article of tracking and targeting Mormons for having and displaying and supporting a personal belief that marriage should be a religious term defined as a union between a man and a woman well within their legal rights of freedom of religion and freedom of speech, I wonder how anyone can honestly believe that members of the LDS faith are the ones in the wrong. Why is it okay to target all that hate and animosity towards members of a specific religion for supporting something they believe in merely because you don't believe it? Members of any faith should be free to exercise their constitutional rights to express and actively support what they believe in without being tracked and targeted simply for expressing their beliefs.

Gary SF · 1 year ago

And if proposition 8 passes - and it certainly WOULD NOT if left to Californians to decide without the influx of millions of dollars from your hateful, bigoted organization - get ready for the mother of all boycotts of all Mormon-owned businesses. We have been making a list and doing the research. We will start with your radio stations. You Mormons had blacks as second-class citizens until the 1970's. There is nothing about your church that is anything but evil. The fact that you 'excommunicate' people shows your family values - you don't value families at all. Go to hell.

smiling_dog · 1 year ago

You are taking your religion and trying to foist it on others. Gay marriage has nothing to do with the Mormon Church. You are effectively trying to force people to abide by your belief system. And it is not just "members of your faith", it is an organized effort by your church, so that makes it that much worse. Just in terms of P.R., this is going to be very bad for your church, win or lose.

Mickey7 · 1 year ago

Mormons are perfectly welcome to their belief that marriage should be a religious term defined as a union between a man and woman. Practice that belief fully within your church No one is trying to deny you your belief system. However, the Constitution of the United States specifically protects the rest of us from bring forced to to adopt your, or any other religion's, belief system. You are making a false equivalency here. No one is threatening your right to act in accordance with your beliefs, but your church is deliberately attempting to interfere with the rights of others to act on their beliefs. That is not faith--that is bigotry.

Mike_G · 1 year ago

You left out the tiny detail that Mormons aren't just 'supporting what they believe in', they are trying to ENFORCE IT INTO STATE LAW on everyone.
Are you being coyly disingenuous or just willfully stupid?

lark83 · 1 year ago

Yeah, I too wish the Mormons would stay the hell out of our state. I find it ironic that they worship this "prophet" Joseph Smith, who is a man who cheated on his wife with some 30 plus women, and claimed God told him to do it.

Now this church he founded is trying to say that marriage can only be between one man and woman. Wierd.

By the way, Warren Jeffs can rightly argue that he is a true Mormon, because he and his followers follow the teachings about marriage that Joseph Smith claimed God told him.

yes_on_8 · 1 year ago

I have not been able to post any more since my original comment even through a different username, so I am seeing if an alternate IP address will work. If it does it means that my previous IP was blocked after stating my opinion in a very respectful manner as all of you can see. Please allow free and uncensored discussion to take place rather than stifling replies from your opposing point of view. Thank you.

That said I will include all three replies in this single post:

Opponents of Prop 8 have the same rights to advocate for their cause that those who support it do regardless of what religion any one particular donor or supporter is.

Anyone is free to organize a boycott on any business for any reason that they want to. Again, well within your constitutional freedoms and rights as an American citizen, regardless of your religion or your personal beliefs.

Blacks were not second-class citizens in the LDS church. As far as blacks and the Priesthood [which is what you mean to be referring to, I believe] that is a whole separate topic and discussion.

As indicated in the link I provided supporting Proposition 8 is not hateful or bigoted at all. It does not take away any of the rights that homosexual couples already have under the law in California [which are equal with heterosexual couples], it simply prevents the domino effect of freedom of speech, religion, and education of our children being infringed upon in the long-run.

---

Proponents of gay marriage are the ones who are forcing their beliefs on others. 61% of the California voters already approved the same exact language in proposition 8 back in 2000 when it was proposition 22. 4 activist judges in California overturned the vote of the people in favor of prop 22. The only thing prop 8 is doing is putting the power to define marriage back into the hands of the California voters. Gay marriage, again as indicated in the link i provided, will have everything to do not only with the Mormon church but freedom of religion, speech and education of our children. If you believe that a man and a man or woman and a woman who fall in love with each other should build a life together etc. then that is your right to believe and practice as you wish. If i believe only a man and a woman should be able to be married and raise a family together that is my right to believe as well. In Massachusetts the schools are teaching kids as young as second grade about gay marriage and not allowing the parents any say in it at all. The courts actually ruled that the parents couldn't do anything about it. Who's forcing beliefs on who here?

--

Homosexual couples have all the same rights as heterosexual couples under California law. Proposition 8 does nothing to take any of those rights away. As I've pointed out in the rest of my replies, Prop 8 simply protects the term of 'marriage' as being a religious term indicating the union between a man and a woman. Thus preventing religions who do not wish to practice or condone homosexual marriage or relationships from being forced to do so under the law.

Warren Jeffs is NOT a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which is the church that is referred to in this blog as the "Mormon" church supporting Prop 8.

FunMe · 1 year ago

You're an IDIOT.

Let's just bar ALL marriages and you will prove fair-minded Americans wrong.

In the meantime, or probably forever, you are an IDIOT.

dula · 1 year ago

You're another misinformed knuckledragger.
1. Domestic Partnerships DO NOT provide the same rights as Civil Marriage.
2. The Judicial Branch of our Government is supposed to protect the individual against the tryanny of the masses. (I'm sure many Southern states could get enough signatures in order to put a Prop on the Ballot that would make it illegal for dirty Mormons to Marry and spread their immorality to future generations...and the Courts would be there in order to protect you even though you don't deserve it).
3. You can believe whatever the hell you want...as long as your beliefs don't deny others their Civil Rights. Nobody cares if the Church cares to perform Marriage ceremonies for Gays or not. Gays simply want the legal Rights that come with Civil Marriage.

Gary SF · 1 year ago

The nerve of a Mormon complaining about 'opposition' points of view here on Ablog, as the Mormon church does not tolerate those Mormons whose opinion on same-sex marriage is not in lockstep with the church. My point about blacks and the church: Discrimination against blacks was made illegal in the US long ago, but the church was allowed to discriminate until it decided change its ways in the 1970s. The US government, wisely chose not to interfere with the church's business. Likewise, the church should not interfere with the government's business. But the witting is on the wall on this one and there will be hell to pay if proposition 8 passes.

Hurrycane · 1 year ago

If "marriage" is only a religious term, then why do states have laws regulating it? That would violate the separation of church and state.

Separation of church and state also ensures that no religious congregation will ever be "forced" to unite same-sex couples in civil marriage.

I do wish that somehow, every civil marriage -- opposite sex or same-sex -- could just be termed as a "civil union," with "marriage" being relegated to the religious sphere. But it's not going to happen. Too many laws already deal with "marriage."

cyninbend · 1 year ago

Not permitting gay people to call their legal relationship a "marriage" certainly is depriving them of a right that others may exercise freely. (I still don't understand why your church cannot create a new relationship with your own Mormon name to describe your special and I am sure, God-blessed, better-than-the-rest relationships between only a man and woman...a Mormon man and a Mormon woman. Then no one else could enter into such a relationship and you would not need to feel so threatened by those scary happy people with matching hoo ha's....) Same as depriving a person of being a priest in their chosen religion because of the color of their skin---or because of the absence of a penis in their pants, a right the Mormon Church still has not granted..... What will you do if God is a woman....or a she-male....after all, it does say "in his image..."

You in the Mormon Church are so thoroughly discriminatory in your beliefs that somehow God has decided white male heterosexuals are superior to the rest of God's creations, you cannot even see the fallacy of your beliefs. You simply do not get it--but, believe me, it's there to get, if you could only see. I wonder what you think when you listen to the beliefs of Scientology, for example? Because that is how your beliefs sound to the rest of us Christians, raised on the Bible without all the silliness worked into it by your own personal "prophet". I hope you have a good explanation for all your beliefs (such as those about "marriage" not being about a loving union in God's eyes, but only to your tastes, and women only being valued based on their reproductive abilities...and don't forget the funny underwear and the secret handshake to get a better seat up there) when God asks for an explanation....better than "That guy over there said that's what you thought...."

More seriously, using church funds--and that includes church resources such as mailing lists, phone numbers, and references from the pulpit or any discussion on church property or during church activities is offensive to Americans familiar with the concept of Separation of Church and State--it crosses the line. But I think the crossing of state lines to interfere in the political issues of another state is even more revolting. Here in Oregon, an out-of-state group---some right wing morons with more money to throw around than Oprah--is flooding all of our media with totally fabricated dishonest ads about our Democratic candidate for the US Senate--"Freedom's Watch" runs ads during every single commercial break during prime time TV shows--that's every 5 to 10 minutes every hour from 8 to 11. Every channel I watch. Every page on You Tube and My Space comes up with a lie by "Freedom's Watch" about how Jeff Merkley will tax us out of existence, no matter how poor, or whether a business, a private person, etc. And turn it all off, and your telephone rings with a "push poll" asking 5 or 6 general questions--and then whether or not you agree with with Jeff Merkley's "plan to increase everyone's taxes". He has no such plan--he is with Senator Obama--roll back tax cuts for those with incomes over $250K. It's despicable. And meanwhile, the Republican Senator runs ads with him walking with our other Senator, Ron Wyden, a Democrat...and with Senator Obama...as though he, Gordon Smith, a Republican, is the Democratic candidate!

We Dems lost a candidate of our own in this race, as his face turns all shadowy and then to black and white, and lies replace his platform, his statements, and beliefs. We, the citizens have lost the ability to vote honestly and know our neighbors are doing the same, and that the outcome is in our hands. I phone canvassed for Merkley--one in 3 said they were not voting for either senatorial candidate because of this barrage of negative advertising. We all lose when that happens. Except for some jerks in a far-off place who are trying to keep all Democrats out of the Senate.....whoever....wherever.....

I think I want a constitutional amendment prohibiting at least non-individuals from donating or campaigning across state lines! Maybe all, including individuals....have not heard what ramifications there may be....What good guys would be impacted....but right now it seems worth it. California and Oregon sure need it. Are other states suffering like us out West?

Dave of the Jungle · 1 year ago

The Mormons name themselves after a male spiritual being named Moroni, who has gonads.

Hurrycane · 1 year ago

One Web site run by a Prop. 8 opponent, Mormonsfor8.com, identifies the name and hometown of every Mormon donor... in response, two women parked an SUV in front of their home, with the words "Bigots live here" painted on the windshield.

I oppose Prop 8, but I also deplore this strategy. This is intimidation, trying to instill fear in our ideological opponents. Aren't we above that?

Gary SF · 1 year ago

The pro Proposition 8 people started it by sending certified letters to businesses that donated money to fight for our rights. These letters were extortion, demanding an equal donation to support proposition 8.

I am looking forward to marginalizing people who support proposition 8 and bankrupting their businesses.

woodka · 1 year ago

If the mormons read their own history, they would understand the deep deep hurt of discrimination, and shut up already.