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We need to take profit-based insurance companies completely out of the equation. Their job is not to provide health care or access to health care - it's to take as much in premiums as possible and pay out as little as possible.
With that incentive, they will ALWAYS be in the way of affordable, accessible health CARE.
I've been saying for ages that we need to do two things: get private insurance companies out of the healthcare business, and sever health care/health coverage from employment.
One word captures what is wrong with the American Health care system, and America in general.
Greed.
.
I live in Denmark, and a few years ago, my Dad was diagnosed with skin cancer. Surgery and check ups. Nothing cost him a dime (because we pay via our taxes).
This year?
At my Dad's last check up, a lump was discovered, and the doctor told him it had to be removed as a precautionary measure. He rode his bike from the doctor to work, and before he got to work the doctor had called him (this was a Friday): There was a cancellation Monday, he could have that time slot and be operated on, that Monday.
My Dad was at the hospital for two weeks. Although the lump thankfully did not contain any cancer, his wounds too longer than expectet to heal enough for him to go home, but everything ended OK.
A few monthes ago, my daughter got ill with stomace pains. The doctor told us to take her to the hospital where test confirmed that it might be her appendix. It was removed that same night (between midnight and 1) and after two days, she could go home.
A month and a half ago, my wife had problems with her throat. Turned out, it was a boil that ended up making her unable to talk (yeah ;o) and unable to swallow (including swallowing pills). She went to the hospital four times (first hospital referred her to another hospital where they specialize in throat surgery): She went to the second hospital two times for having the boil drained, and one time for checkup.
Of course I was nervous for both my Father, my daughter and my wife at and around the time when they had surgery, but at no time did I have to think about the cost, or worry that I or my father or my wife would end up with a bill for the surgery or the checkups.
And (and this is something I have seen used as an argument more than one time): At NO TIME did we have to discuss the necessity of surgery with ANYONE but a doctor or a surgeon! They diagnosed and at the same time they decided that surgery was necessary!
If a politician in Denmark were to suggest, that we stopped national health care, that would be an end to his or her career as a politician: Most every Dane think we pay to much in taxes, but the part of our taxes we pay towards national health care, we pay gladly - especially when learning about how things are done in America ("Sicko" was a great film in that respect).
Wake up, America!
After a prolonged admittance procedure where the only thing I didn't need to reveal was my granny's shoe size, I was directed to a emergency room where I spent about 75mins. One X-ray later, a lot of very busy people in different coloured informal clothing, and one MD with either a terminal speech impediment or under the influence (couldn't tell, he never got close enough), I was discharged. A few days later I received a bill for $7,600. Yes, seven thousand six hundred dollars and some change. I refused to pay. After a long, almost one-year long, fight, the hospital seriously revised the bill to an amount that the insurance paid in full. Throughout this nightmare, the insurance did nothing to help.
Frankly, if the predatory insurance companies, especially the parasitic HMOs go out of business, I'll be the first to celebrate. I hope that Kucinich's idea to follow the Canadian example goes thru: the one that lets progressive States introduce "socialised" medicine. Even with higher taxes, it will be cheaper than what I have to pay for the "privilege", plus co-pays, deductibles, out-of-pocket expenses and the insane, never-ending stress. And the prospect of euthanasia in old age or suicide, if I have the means to carry it out.
I would much rather know that my taxes can and will help me, and anyone in need, rather than contribute to a billion-dollar bank account of a CEO who knows little to nothing about medicine, but all about accounts in the Bahamas.
We have to fight their lies with the truth. Over and over again.
The end result: Over 4,000$ in hospital bills, which UHC (and later Blue Cross) refused to cover. It took almost a year for me to get the money out of them, but not before my credit was wrecked.
If you're wondering how I knew it was a piece of glass - my neighbor is a veterinarian. He fixed it for me, got an antibiotic prescription from a doctor friend of his, and it cost me... a nice bottle of scotch.
Sounds like the valuable lesson I'm going to take from this is that you should really go see your regular doctor instead of going to the ER for regular treatment.
You are what is broken with the healthcare system.
We went to one of Bangalore's super-specialty hospitals -- the Manipal. While I can't say the place was ultra modern, it did have all the most important modern equipment. Emergency laser surgery was called for. Later, follow-up visits to check on her recovery.
Our total cost, from the minute we walked in the doors -- the initial exam, the surgery, some prescription meds, and two follow-up examinations -- was $39. Thirty-nine dollars.
We spent more on hired cars to get us from where we'd been up in Andhra Pradesh and back again.
For the next week, take it easy, don't over-exert yourself, and give yourself time to heal.
I am sure I speak for many by saying my thoughts and prayers are with you.
Also if you have certain medical conditions (eg diabetes) all prescriptions are free in the UK
By this time we were really struggling to make ends meet on just my income, and moved to a tiny apartment after spending three months essentially homeless. Two years later, we did get a workman's comp settlement that covered just the outstanding medical bills from that event and the lawyer's fees, leaving us with all the debt accrued from living on one income all that time, but we'll let that one go.
That summer, my husband found seasonal, low wage work at a farm. While scraping paint on a barn, he got a paint chip in his eye. The employer did not have any insurance for workers -- not legal, but that's what it was (the owners of the farm also are CPAs and own a financial services business, go figure). We did not want to pay for the ER, so made an appointment to see an eye doctor. Fortunately there was a slot that day from someone's cancellation. My husband did have to wait for over three hours trying not to move his eyes, but that was our choice. The actual visit took about ten minutes. The charge was $860.00.
That Fall, we were blessed to find I was pregnant. I was 39, and we had been wanting a baby many years. The timing was bad because of no insurance, but we were thrilled! I was still working 6-7 days a week, and my husband was just finishing his seasonal work and looking for a job. Reluctantly, I did go to the hospital for a prenatal checkup, although I am extremely healthy and fit. The blood tests alone for that visit were $878.00. We were still paying on the bill for the paint chip. We planned a home birth with a midwife, to keep costs down, and no more "well" visits or screening tests. We wanted to save what little we could for necessities for the baby.
Once his seasonal work ended, my husband was able to apply for unemployment -- which felt very strange for a guy who had worked all his life. He had been a truck driver since entering the Air Force as a teenager.
Unfortunately I miscarried at three months, despite no complications and perfect self care. The visit to the ER to get some pain relief was $1522.72. The ultrasound later that day to verify the miscarriage was $1555.11. I forget what we paid for the percoset, maybe about $40. They wanted me to come for a follow up visit, to ask me how I felt! I declined.
I still worked 6-7 days a week, taking just a week off for the worst part of the miscarriage. My husband was looking like crazy for employment, and doing odd jobs and handyman work for neighbors and family. He got several promises, but no offers, even for minimum wage and temporary jobs. After going through this for the winter, we decided to somehow put him through school so he could have better job prospects. We were still living paycheck to paycheck.
The college required proof of immunizations before enrollment. Having been raised in an orphanage, my husband did not have these records. So-- back to the hospital! The blood tests came to $855.00. A few came back negative, and they asked if he wanted the measles and hepatitis shots. He declined due to the cost.
Upon applying for college financial aid, we discovered that because I had been working 6-7 days a week for two years, our income on paper was too high and my husband did not qualify for any Pell grants, work study, or other aid besides regular and unsubsidized loans. It was a tough decision to choose between taking on $10,000+ per year in debt (cheap -- local college), or the alternative:
We are now getting a divorce, so that he can qualify for better financial aid. We hope to keep the college debt below $2000 per year. We also hope to get back to being a two income, middle class, married couple with manageable debt and a decent home again, in about five or six years. Sadly, it will be too late for a baby then.
I will continue to pay down our $5800 medical debt over that time, and hope we don't accrue any more, because we cannot afford insurance for the next few years.
One relatively minor injury, and our lives are derailed. What a system.
My daughter had an ear infection and I called the doctors on Highmark's list. Out of 10 doctors, 7 doctors have changed practices and are no longer at these medical practices or out of business. The other 3 were surgeons. Obviously Highmark did their homework.
My mother-in-law suggested we take our daughter to their primary care physician at the local mall. I am expecting having to pay 200-800 USD for office visit and possible prescription(s). We get to the local doctors office, and it was not crowded at all. Prices for care were listed: $20 NZ Dollars for local residents, $30 NZ Dollars for international guests/visitors.
$30 NZ Dollars which at the time was approximately $20 US Dollars. For uninsured, non-resident treatment.
We were prescribed an antibiotic and I was expecting to pay $80 USD, but the pharmacy (which is attached to the doctors office) did not charge us stating it is part of the primary bill of $30 NZ Dollars.
Considering I pay in excess of $12K per year for PPO health maintenance and still have the potential to have treatments rejected, the "choice" option here in the US really is no choice. Although the base tax rate for NZ residents is slightly higher than in the US for individuals earning less than 120K, add the "tax" of healthcare and mandatory auto insurance, plus additionals like dental insurance and eyecare, plus term and whole life insurance, home owners insurance, and state, local and residential property tax in addition to a local wage tax, and my overall "tax" burden exceeds 60% of my income. Whereas, if I were to move to Auckland, NZ, with same medical coverage, life insurance, home owners and local taxes, my tax burden is only 45%.
Note on the Swiss system: health insurance is mandatory and does not have anything to do with your employer. Simply, every adult must choose a plan from several different insurance companies. Typically, many people change every year depending on the new cheapest company.
People from the wealthiest nation on earth do not need to come freeload on us. Pretty please?
I live in Bulgaria, almost a 3rd world country by US standars, though an EU member.
A basic visit to any emergency room or your GP doctor costs exactly 1Eur (2BGN). Of course, each month part of your taxes go to the healthcare system. The system here is flawed in many ways, I'll not go into details, but they'll still "fix you" even if you don't work (no taxes) or are even homeless.
Once when I was in the US I had to visit the emergency room. It was some infection I've developed, and they took blood to check for bacteria etc. The doctor gave me antibiotics, and I had to come back 3 days later. Well, I came, all was fine etc. The total cost of that was around $500 - WTF!
Same thing here will will cost you 3x1 = 3EUR if you go to the public hospital, and around 50EUR if you go into private one, where you pay it all by yourself (doctor's fee, microbiological test, etc).
The doctor's and the equipment (subjectively) are at the same level of knowledge/experience...
Of course, for complex or very modern treatment, you'll probably have to go to a big private hospital , which you will have to pay somehow, but that are rare occasions - touch wood
as a sidenote, every EU citizen (from Finland down to Greece) can have an EU health-card issued (costs around 20EUR), which is just a plastic ID card that guarantees you that you don't have to pay for ER services in ANY EU member country. The bills go back to your home country and you don't have to worry about it.
Just my 2 cents
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07...
I just wanted to let you know that you are welcome to use this new logo I designed for Blue Cross (with fingers crossed).
So glad to hear that you got the treatment you needed.
Or better yet, turn 'em loose in the congressional hearings.
With all of this hoo-hah about injuring the insurance business, I'm slowly coming in favor of nationalizing all of the hospitals. let the "health care industry" go pound sand.
Oh, and for comparison's sake, what might such a visit have cost in the States?
He had no insurance and went to an emergency room because he was feeling rather ill. He was mis-diagnosed with pneumonia (they still do not know what he had, but his skin was getting tinged yellow and his blood levels were off).
He was in the hospital for one night, I believe. They ran lots of tests.
His bill, which he has to pay for out-of-pocket?
$15,000.... And he still does not know what he had.
I want to add that my friend is out of work and this bill is something that he cannot handle at all.
The conservatives' current schtick is to say that you can't get good cancer treatment in Europe. Is there any shred of truth to that? If not, someone who knows better needs to call them on that because they are scaring off a lot of people with that line.
The last time I let doctors touch me was almost 20 years ago for an appendectomy. I had health insurance through my employer, but I was still billed over $1000 out of pocket.
I'm scared to death to think what I'd have to pay out of pocket for routine medical care nowadays. And god forbid something serious be wrong. My brother-in-law is still paying the bills for my late sister's cancer treatment (admittedly top-drawer-- it gave her at least two extra years of good-quality life despite terminal cancer). In a fair world, he wouldn't be going broke. Well, NO ONE would.
Zero.
She's fine now, had no problems, and no horror stories.. and this woman is a freakin hypochondriac. She's been in and out many times for knee surgery, allergy tests, medication complications.. never had a problem.
Just insurance company or GOP propaganda.
etc have great socialized medicine.
Think about it. How many people do you know or how many people have
you ever heard of who go to Canada or Europe to get medical procedures
done????
I thought so.
END OF STORY!!!
Case closed!
In Holland, I had a perforated ear drum. My friend, who was in college, called his doctor. His doctor said that she would come over to his apartment. She did that. She examined my ear and told me that it was ruptured, and that it would heal on its own. The cost was free.
In Germany, on one occasion I had a seizure. I had had one seizure in the US prior to this. In the US, I was seen in an emergency room. This was about 19 years ago. I had a CT Scan, and the cost was over 500 dollars- even back then. In Germany, I saw a neurologist on the day of my seizure. He gave me an EEG in his office, and provided me with medication to use until I returned home. The cost was 20 dollars. When I returned to the US, I saw doctors at UC San Fran. I was on a sliding scale, because I wasn't employed at the time. The cost of seeing a neurologist just one time for about 20 minutes ran me around 300 dollars. In all, I was left with a bill of over 2000 dollars. This was about 17 years ago.
The other time I saw a doctor in Germany, I had GI problems. I saw the doctor almost immediately in his office. It was nearly free. I can't remember if I had to pay anything, because I was insured by the German insurance at the time.
If you expect to get sick soon, get thee to France ASAP!!
The critical thing is the peasants need to be ground down and taught not to expect any help. A sick, tired, and fearful wage slave is one who will do anything, forgo raises and health and more -- to help the company bottom line.
Can't be going down that road.
OK, part of what you forgot to say was that in the US that surgery would have set you back several grand and your insurance may or may not have covered it as a necessary procedure.
Why do we continue to let the insurance companies here run our health care system?
I had the YAG laser procedure done in the U.S. after I moved back. It was so quick that I thought the doctor was still adjusting the machine.
They charged me $2,500. I had no insurance.
By the way, everybody tends to refer to the Canadian or european health care systems, but Japan's is really good, too. A few years ago, my Japanese girlfriend's dad had a bad episode with his blood pressure and passed out. We took him to the local hospital, where they checked him in, gave him an MRI along with all the other routine diagnostic stuff and had him stay overnight for observation. All they had to do to pay for it, AFAIK, was show their government insurance card. Her family were all self-employed (farmers), so it's not like they had to work for a zaibatsu to have it.
They also tend to keep people in hospital much longer for the sake of precaution than they do here in the states and still nobody talks about being afraid of going bankrupt because of an acute illness. So why can't we in America have that? Oh yeah, we have to be slaves to Big Insurance and Big Pharma. Silly me. God, too many Americans are just suckers.
A friend of mine was on his bike and hit a van, stopping himself with his face - lost half a front tooth, cracked one cheekbone and shattered the other.
Ambulance, emergency braces, MRIs and x-rays galore, 10 day and then one week stays, titanium implants to hold his bones together, jaw wired shut - a total nightmare. Estimates from the States put his bill for the surgery alone at around USD80,000.
Because he is a student, he was able to claim his out of pocket costs (our bills only what we have to pay) and got reimbursed for *all* of it.
Insurance would only cover a silver crown for his tooth, but he reckoned USD900 for a custom ceramic one was worth what he DIDN'T have to pay.
I did an extra consult for a broken clavicle with a specialist I went out and found a couple years ago. Different hospital, fresh x-rays - eight United States dollars.
But since a large part of the cost of healthcare is tied to skyrocketing malpractice costs, and the trial lawyers are the biggest source of money to both parties, it seems like we would still have a battle on our hands.
There are staggering numbers of potential solutions, but it seems that implementing them would seriously mean that someone's gain becomes another's loss. It seems to matter little if the one gaining is a single mother of 2 and the one losing is an investor in a hospital with a personal net worth of 40 million.
I am afraid that Obama may go down in history as another Jimmy Carter.
The problem is that the insurance industry has taken it in the pants with too many bad investments in the stock market as well as shareholders demanding high profits every quarter, so the insurance industry, in effect, taxes doctors for the industry's malfeasance. Doctors have to realize that they are being fleeced by a predatory and incompetent insurance industry just like regular folks.
So the attack on trail lawyers is just a strawman argument.
The fundamental problem is that the insurance companies are not in the insurance business any more -- they're in the business of collecting premiums and investing them. They're investment companies. The concept of actually ever paying a claim is foreign to them.
Like the rest of the financial "services" industry, they need to be severely regulated to get the fuck back to their core business PDQ.
Seriously -- where does this ridiculous demonization of "socialism" come from--insurance lobbyists? I just don't get that...
Sending you healing energy for your eye....
Well, Constant, the Repugs have no ideas - new or otherwise. Karl Rove in his Bush "Master of the Universe" guise went back to the tried and true Nazi Propaganda machine to look for ideas. After all, the Nazis convinced a whole country that they were SuperMen! A key tenet of all propaganda is that if you say a lie often enough, no matter how incredible it may be, it becomes the truth.
Add to this the fact that nearly all people in the U.S. heartland and in the South only hear WKKK (all hate, all the time) radio and it is not hard to understand why they are so ignorant.
(I recently returned from a cross U.S. road trip. Man, did I wish I had brought my CD collection along!)
Oh, you simply must submit for reimbursement from Care'First'.
I'm sure you have a lot of free time to fight that through their system. If not, ask Max Bauchus for help.
Now that I am back in America, and working on my own, I have become one of the 55 million without health insurance. I can only hope that I won't have a major medical condition. What is really most shocking to me in the American system is the complete lack of humanity. All that matters is profit; people can, and are, sacrificed!
Of course, once the anchors asked him about his own health care (through his employer the RNC, but he didn't know who the provider was) he told them about when he was self employed and it cost him $20,000 to buy health care for his family so he understood the economics of the situation. Really? Really? If the average household (all persons working and contributing to income in a household) income is under $50,000 per year, how does the RNC Chairman expect them to pay $20,000 out of pocket for health insurance and still pay their taxes, housing, food and energy costs?
This is the millionaire Senator's Club problem. $20,000 is a cheap car, not a lot of money. I make $28,000 a year and support a household of 3.
Ahhh, affirmative action, Republican style.
Sorry about your eye but thanks so much for sharing.
On the subject of malpractice, we should start by mandating that all punitive damage money go 100% to the state, not the plaintiff and not the lawyer.
I guess the smart thing as an American is to save your money and get a passport and hope you can wait long enough to visit a health system that is NOT insane.
http://robertreich.blogspot.com/
But since elections are designed to favor the incumbent, maybe this is as good as it gets. I do not believe this is a true democracy but more of a government that can be easliy manipulated if you have the money and time, and corporations have both. We have a corporate government instead of a democratic one. Our government treats its citizens just like a business treats its employees and I don't believe our government was intended to be ran this way, it's just evolved into it.I believe our first step should be for the citizens to rise up and demand that lobbying be outlawed because it is nothing more than bribery. Our government should be looking out for the interest of its citizens, not looking out for Wal Mart's business interests.
When I had the surgery in Sweden, I paid nothing for the actual surgery (I had already met my "deductible" of a few hundred dollars for that year for medical care), and about $30 for a three-night hospital stay, at Sankt Eriks Ögonsjukhus (Saint Erik's Eye Hospital) in Stockholm.
This country is just absurd.
Enjoy yourself as you are in one of the most wonderful cities in the world!!
And you received the help you needed. What a world.
I know your stay will be memorable.
Again, enjoy!!
i do not want to pay for government run healtcare. i do not want to pay for someone on holiday who broke thier leg binge drinking and fell off a boardwalk. nor do i want to pay for some frenchmans eye.
Neither my husband or I is currently working. We pay almost $900/month for our crappy health insurance. It's obscene!
In the US people pay anyway because all those without money or insurance go to the emergency room and as a result we all pay. Its just much cheaper dealing with these things before they get to the emergency room. So it should be as efficient as possible. American health care costs at least 6% points more on GDP than any other industrialized country but Americans live shorter lives and are sicker. How is this a better system????????
When i was employed (until recently) I paid 10% FEWER (that's right, FEWER) taxes in the UK then i did when i lived in new york city (federal, state, city), yet I got paid much more in the UK. And what did I get in return for all those taxes I paid in the States? Nothing.
I just lost my job and I had medical problems at the same time. The NHS has given me the most amazing care. I never ever pay for any appointment or procedure. I never saw a doctor at all for years when I working and paying my taxes. Now that I am unemployed, It is such a relief that I don't have to worry about insurance costs and deductibles.
WAKE UP America! You are being fleeced and conned!
Being myself a french ER doctor (salaried, my wages don't change with the number of patients I see), here is what I can tell :
Going to a "standard" ER costs you 23€ as the doctor Fee, medications are included but not blood-tests, other procedures (x rays, CT scans, surgery etc) or prescriptions to be delivered by a main street drugstore.
The "government" (by way of a regional agency) gives 16€ to the ER for each insured patient that comes for a visit (for the maintenance of the structure) but not for foreigners.
This is for my hospital, which is known here as being "private-non lucrative"(PSPH) (by law, it can't do profit but on the other hand, it must gain money since the gov won't compensate any debt)
Usually, a psph hospital in France doesn't earn much money on its ER dept but on the surgical procedures and stays generated from the ER.
15% of all patients coming to my ER have to stay for at least a night and thus generate more revenue to the hospital (but not directly to the ER dept)
23€ is the least to be asked. If I have to do a small procedure (casting plaster, stitches, etc) to an out-patient, it can be a bit more. Most expensive in a generalist ER must be around 100€ (taking out a foreign body located in the upper airways with laryngoscopy I would say). Above that, you would have to stay.
We still have too many people travelling to the emergency room for primary care, wait times that are longer than people would like, and procedures that aren't covered, but everyone is covered, gets care, and won't go backrupt because of it.
Incidentally, dental isn't covered (I've always found this strange), nor are prescriptions. There are probably some programs, but not for me (I do get this through my employer/private insurance).
Upon arriving, I continued throwing up in the waiting area. The nurse kindly took down my information and led me to the back. After about 10 minutes of trying to explain my disorder, the doctor suddenly realized what I was asking for, left the office, and came back with three vials of my treatment medication. He treated me, gave me plenty o painkillers, and sent me on my way.
As for payment? The nurse asked for my address and I wrote it on her hand. About a month later, a bill for 40 euros arrived at my home in Nebraska.
All I know is that I have the best, most expensive self employed plan that BCBS offers in Dc, and they basically have given me zero prescription coverage. If I get MS, or something equivalent, I'm screwed. Tell me what's so great about that?
One of the hospitals I live near has been caught numerous times by local media and other groups. They've dumped patients (usually elderly patients without insurance who cannot afford to pay) in our city's Skid Row.
Another hospital in LA ignored a severely ill patient for hours, leaving her to die in their waiting room without even having been seen to by a nurse, let alone a doctor. This was documented on security cam footage obtained by the media and law enforcement.
So I ask you KaySi, why is this ok, but the mere specter of socialized medicine causes you to raise up the unfounded specter of a genocide of the elderly?
how much do french people pay in income taxes?
how much do u.s. people pay in income taxes?
i'm glad that as a u.s. citizen i don't have to subsidize the cost of treatment for your floaters.
Furthermore, when you actually total the amount people pay in taxes not just at the federal level, but with state, city, sales tax and many other fees, you find the US citizens pay a large % of their incomes to taxes. Only all we do is pay out.
The US has surpassed the world on many metrics over the last 100 years, and now they are surpassing the industrialized world in terms of the most uninsured, the most money wasted, the most preventible deaths, the highest levels of stress, the highest income disparity, the most rapidly shrinking middle class: why?
Finally, when people wave the word "socialism" around you immediately know they're idiots. They, and you, used it in lieu of an actual, meaningful argument. You think the big boogeyman "socialism" is all that needs to be said. It's actually shorthand for "I haven't done the homework, I don't know what I'm talking about, I probably work for a health insurance or related company, or I watch Fox News, or all of the above."
We preside over "the most inefficient use of resources" right now. I suppose you believe that "the markets will police themselves" too, just like you learned in economics class. How'd that turn out?
I think the paid trolls have arrived.
And my economics classes turned out perfect. It is proven that a market or country with limited intervention will succeed. Thats why America has done so well: because we have, in comparison to other top countries, the least controlling government.
Please watch this video then if you still cant see how wrong you are, argue with me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZpDjxIPpFc
On the other hand, we just went through a gigantic process of bailing out a bunch of irresponsible banks - privatizing (which you think is so automatically great) the profits but socializing the losses. I'm not so crazy about that.
So Socialism, like pretty much anything, can be good or bad, helpful or harmful.
Finally, even saying "America has done so well" can be disputed. Indeed, throughout the Bush years we were constantly told that the economy was going gangbusters, when the reality was that it was fabulous for a very small percentage of Amercans, and it was stagnating or going backwards for the vast majority of Americans. And, as it turned out, all that "wealth" was just air. It wasn't real. If you think having a society built on credit card debt, with house values falling, unemployment rising, the numbers of uninsured skyrocketing, the cost of a college education becoming out of reach for more and more people, well, I guess you can have that opinion. But you won't convince me.
Also, America has definitely done so well! tell me this, if America wasnt doing so damn well, then why are immigrants pouring into this country? Immigrants have be welcome and have continued since the 19th century coming to this country.
Our mistakes made by presidents congress and some businesses to send us into this economic recession are still not enough to keep people from attempting to come to this country to earn a living. I implore you watch the video i have linked in my previous post.
Wow. You certainly clinched your arguement with that.
You people have to look at it from a bigger picture. You all are so focused on the immorality of letting one person be denied. How about all the suffering of what will result? You have all blatantly ignored all of those.
Also I dont know how you all believe that the lines will actually be shorter with socialized healthcare. With every person getting "free" healthcare there will be many more people waiting in lines aking them longer. There will be tons of people going to hospitals to get a little cut looked at cause its free. People with real problems will have trouble getting treated.
This is among so many other awful things that you all look over when arguing for socialized healthcare.
I work for an economics firm. Our clinics include the Heritage Foundation, the Brookings Institute, and government agencies across the country and in Europe.
Guess what, Cybertoaster? EVERY SINGLE ECONOMIST IN THE FIRM, without exception, thinks the American health care system is an evil, inefficient joke. The layers of bureaucracy in the insurance companies create vast inefficiencies, while the loss of productivity among people who can't work because they can't get health care is enormous. A major reason why American car manufacturers can't compete with Japanese firms is because GM and Chrysler and Ford have to pay for their employees' insurance instead of the employees receiving it from a single payer.
You're not only selfish. You know zero about economics, and you seem like a very unpleasant person. Why are you so angry and cruel?
you really are an idiot.
If my taxes went up for me to get unconditional health care for the rest of my life no matter whether I'm working or not, I'd gladly pay it.
France spends only around 10% of its GDP on healthcare. With no one denied care or coverage.
The US spends 17% of GDP on healthcare. Millions are uninsured.
So in reality, the President is right; we should be able to ensure access to healthcare without spending a single dime more.
The insurer paid their share of everything but the room, claiming that it alone hadn't been preauthorized. Remember, I was not involved in any of the arrangements; it all took place between the hospital and the insurer. The room charge for 6 days in the CCU was approximately $20,000 (nearly 15 years ago!). When I began getting monthly bills from the hospital, I started contacting both the insurer and the hospital, all to no avail. They all recognized the absurdity of paying for the surgery and the meds and the staff time, etc., but not the room. Yet no-one chose to resolve it. I couldn't and didn't pay.
Eventually, the matter was turned over to a collection agency. Finally, I overheard in the pharmacy line that the hospital had a dispute-resolution office. Why I hadn't been told of its existence, I can't imagine. Fortunately, though it took the better part of 6 months, the hospital was able to persuade the insurer to reverse its decision not to pay for the room. Except for the deductible, I was off the hook.
Besides the stress to me, think of all the time, effort and expense devoted to this idiotic dispute. Nor was this a rare experience; many of my coworkers and friends and family had similar experiences. For example, when my father was dying of a brain tumor in the mid-'80s, my mother was confused and distressed by Medicare's apparently random rejection of about 10% of her legitimate claims.
During one of Dad's several hospitalizations, Mom overheard in the lounge a conversation among other spouses about the same problem. The solution, as described by 2 of those involved, was simply to resubmit the claims exactly as before. From then on, every time Mom resubmitted a rejected claim, the claims were paid.
After my father passed away, we read in the papers of a major investigation of this practice. Medicare contracted out its claims determinations to big insurance companies on a regional basis, which I imagine is still the practice. When the government decreed that Medicare had to reduce its expenditures by a certain percentage (maybe 5 to 10%, but I don't recall the details), the feds ordered the claims-administering insurers to tighten up the screening of claims.
In some cases, they took a closer look at pending claims to find more that could legitimately be declined; in other cases, they randomly rejected one of every 10 or 15 or 20, whatever was necessary. Prudential was the "guilty party" for the region that included Northern New Jersey; apparently, they were among the random rejectors, which explains how identical claims could be accepted on the second or third attempts after one or more rejections.
In contrast, when I was on vacation in London in the early-'70s, my friends and I were having lunch in our hotel dining room. Just as the meal was being served, I had a moderately severe asthma attack, my first in many years. After being whisked to a nearby hospital by ambulance, I was treated in the emergency clinic and kept overnight for observation. The total cost was zero/nil/nada, including meds. The only negative was that the hotel insisted I pay for the meal I'd been unable to eat!
I recently wanted to get a new pair of glasses, and needed to see the eye doctor to make sure my prescription hadn't changed since my last exam some years earlier. The way my insurance works, I have to go through my primary care doctor for a referral to any "specialists", or my insurance will not cover it. When I called my doctor's office to ask them to put in the referral with my insurance, they refused. They would only give me a referral to see an eye doctor if I came in for an exam with my primary care doctor first. So I had to wait 2 weeks to see my primary doc, who charges almost $400 per visit (paid by my insurance) just to be told I was in fine health. And only then did they clear me to see my eye doc.
My primary care doc essentially held me hostage with insurance.
So what if some poor French farmer or Factory worker is paying for someone else's medical bills? Have you not considered that maybe - JUST MAYBE - they, too, will one day require medical attention? At which point those who have already been to the hospital / clinic will be paying for THEM, so its a fair system. Everyone gives some and everyone takes some.
Sure, some take more than others given biology and a few unwise lifestyle choices, but who has really lived a problem-free life?! The medical attention is there when YOU need it -- not when your needs have been cleared through your insurance company and are able to pay for it.
I'm from Mexico, and maybe we dont have that kind of ER ( the socialized medicine is overload here), but definitely the cost are lower, lower, lower.
The cost of an appointment are nearly zero, well, they are zero, the 90% of the medicine are buy by the government, and they are "free". You just have to pay a quota, that is discounted from your salary or your payment, or you can have other kind of service in case that you do not have work.
Maybe here in mexico, somethings are bad handled, but if you have cancer, or broken your leg, they try to fix it the best way possible on their own overloaded capable hands.
So what's wrong with you, cybertoaster, that you haven't the capacity to think beyond the dollar signs and see actual human suffering?
But my question is, they didn't give you numbing drops before the laser procedure? I just had laser work on macular edema (at $1200 a whack before insurance), and between the dilation drops and the anaesthetic, the only real annoyance I had from the procedure was the minor discomfort of the lens thingy the surgeon used to keep the eye open and focus the beam. I had the distraction of trying to look straight ahead when he was working on my dominant eye, but I can't recall any serious pain. Still, for less than 200 bucks American...
I work hard to pay for my BC/BS - and have damned good insurance to show for it.
{tap tap tap]
We're still waiting, Andy. Where are the examples?
As for your BC/BS, and how great it is, what's your lifetime limit? What's your annual cap for prescription coverage? Does it go up every year? How much of a $10,000 emergency room visit would you pay and how much does BC/BS pay? How much does your insurance premium go up every year?
Just wondering how great your insurance is. I'm guessing you actually have no idea what your coverage is, and now will have to call someone and check before you can answer.
What the insurance ends up paying is another matter, but three days in a hospital at nearly $40K. But "the market" will solve all our problems, right!
Here in the US, they do numb you, which I would see as a plus.
*People with pre-existing conditions, or those who filled out their application form incorrectly, were denied the healing powers of Jesus Christ.
Missing you.