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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26906945?GT1=43001
Oh, I know: "A noun, a verb, and The Surge"
Sprinkle in some "naivete, + I'm old - been there done that".
...does MSNBC have a live stream,... I want to watch commentary by Obermann and Maddow
is there a link?
I'm a uber-Obama supporter (I'm from IL since the Ryan days.....) but Obama, while tryiing to be a gentleman, needs to get to get more on the offense....there were alot of issues where he coulda wiped the floor with McCain....
Secondly, how many f-ing times did Obama say "I agree w/ John" or "John is right." In the US we call that nice guy crap a FAIL.
Maybe I'm just nervous and over critical.
I'm going blog-hopping instead.
If people want a thoughtful, intelligent man, Obama.
By the way, T.Boone (swift boat) Pickens is trying to turn the tide to McCain.
GO VOTE!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26906945?GT1=43001
Post debate spin is important and this is where we can participate. I haven't found a CNN one yet.
http://www.cnn.com/
THe old man looked sly, as if he was afraid to look at Obama.
I guess the rethugs will think their lying candidate was on fire!
some people are going to say, McCain is a nice man, why doesn't he retire?
http://www.cnn.com/
Also, Obama should have pointed out that General Petreaus declared that winning is not possible in Iraq AND he should have pointed out that the Maliki government as well as the Bush Administration have called for time tables or time horizons to get out of Iraq.
I call it a (yawn) tie.
Obama should have pummeled McCain on the finacial crisis. Instead he let McCain control the entire first 15 minutes of the debate.
Furthermore, Obama refuses to explain to the listeners the Keating 5 scandal, McCains confessions of wrong doing, and the concurrent
collapse due to the lack of regulation McCain had been advocating on behalf of his S and L friends. Instead he allows McCain to wear the false mantle of 26 years of honest effort..
Then, he lets McCain call him an idiot every time he responds to something Obama says. "Sen. Obama just doesn't understand."
I work with one of these moronic undecideds. The Obama stuttering bothers him. McCain slapping Obama around with impunity won't help.
If Obama can't figure out a way to attack McCain personally that is transparently an attack, he is going to keep looking like a loser.
Maybe Maddow is right. President McCain.
Fuck. Fuck. Fuck
Have more faith, all of you. Just like Mum48 says, Obama's got the better orator(debate) skill. All he has to do now is work on the ums and stutters, and he'll have it down perfectly.
How did Obama "let himself be slapped around"?
How can you say that "Obama refuses to explain to the listeners the Keating 5 scandal"? Did anyone ask him to do that? Was that one of Lehrer's questions? Do you not understand that this debate was a structured event and not a free-for-all?
Do you really think that McCain's little mantra - "Sen. Obama just doesn't understand" - really worked when it was obvious from Obama's responses that he not only understood all of the issues, but probably could teach McCain a thing or two?
And, if your colleague is seriously bothered by Senator Obama's slight stutter, how is McCain's droopy eye, multiple melanoma episodes, foolish choice of Palin, and smirking throughout Obama's commentary working for him?
And, as much as I love Rachel Maddow, I don't think she IS right. Despite some of the commentary I have read on some of the blogs tonight, I don't think the majority of Americans are so blind and stupid as to elect a medically (and possibly mentally) compromised 72-year old Bush supporter and his pageant queen sidekick.
I think too much time was spent prepping foreign policy (where Obama held his own and perhaps a bit more), and Obama was a bit slow on the trigger on the economy. He let the story get changed to taxes and earmarks, rather than lobbyists and failed economic policy. Where was the discussion of Freddie/Fannie/Davis.
Obama got better at returning the jabs once it returned to foreign policy - which tells me there were a whole bunch or pre-rehearsed points.
Both candidates dodged answers on tough questions, which I found very disappointing.
I don't think there was a clear winner on the topics. But I do think the real test may be how McCain was perceived. If he was seen as cranky and mean, it may work against him. If he is seen as tough, then it may work for him.
Staying on message is critical. If Bush and McCain are so bad that we need "Change" then you don't agree with them on anything and you think they're wrong about everything.
McCain won by not dropping dead on stage and by calling Obama condescending names with no responses from Obama.
Did you hear Obama at the end? "Good job, John." What the hell? Even if you think so, you don't SAY it.
And Lehrer is a condescending jackass, too. Someone needs to put these moderators in their places and remind them that they are not the candidates.
Obama agrees with McCain that torture is wrong? Christ, even MCCAIN doesn't agree with McCain that torture is wrong, since McCain said he opposed it, but then voted for it.
We didn't end up with George W. Bush, George H.W. Bush and Ronald Reagan because they debated like civilized people. We ended up with them because, among other things, they knew not to say that they agreed with their opponents.
McCain's peers in Congress hate him. He's forced to defend a failed administration. He's inconsistent in his own stated views. He's inarticulate. He makes snap decisions that reveal bad judgment.
Obama ought to win by a margin of historic proportions. Instead, he's barely holding on against a candidate who by any measure ought to be struggling to win 40 percent of the vote.
CNN/OPINION RESEARCH CORPORATION POLL OF DEBATE WATCHERS
Who Did the Best Job In the Debate?
Obama 51%
McCain 38%
Who Would Better Handle Economy?
Obama 58%
McCain 37%
Who Would Better Handle Iraq?
Obama 52%
McCain 47%
But Obama did not "keep saying 'I agree with John.'" I think that a perusal of the transcript, when it is available, will show that Obama didn't say it as often as McCain supporters would like to think. Remember that McCain is new to these ideas of change from the Bush administration policies (as in the past couple of months).
And what condescending names did McCain use in reference to Obama? Please enlighten me. Were you looking for a schoolyard brawl of some kind?
And, having participated in debates on debate teams in school, I can inform you that, when the debate is concluded, you always shake hands with your opponent and say something like "good job." It is part of the etiquette in most competitive arenas. It's what well-brought-up people do.
And to most educated people, Lehrer is a respected journalist. I don't think that he is the one who needs to be put in "their place."
McCain did better than I thought considering how nuts he's been lately. But the fact that he refused to look at Barack and was continuously condescending "Sen Obama doesn't understand" etc was quite rude. I hope undecideds think negatively of him for that.
I like that Obama tied McCain to Bush, should do that more. I like that he tied foreign policy to domestic issues and how we can't pay for stuff we need because of the debacle of Iraq. Has McCain forgotten how unpopular the war is??? I was happy that Obama talked about his bipartisan bills which meant that McCain couldn't re-state his lie (Obama hasn't reached across the aisle). I was happy that Obama said that McCain voted 26 times against alternative energy and that we have 3% of the oil yet consume 25%. Did McCain refute that? I was too busy throwing a wad of paper at his image on my tv every time he was on.
I want a plan, organization gives us structure and accountability. I want a commitment…
No nation with two brain cells would give any creadence to 'intelligent design' let alone allow it to be debated. You have to be a nation hell bent on collapse.
I have hit it 3 times for Obama...nothing registering...
But did anyone notice the main difference between the two... Obama used the word "We" a whole lot while engaging McCain and looked him in the eye...He looked and acted the part!
But McCain wouldn't look at Obama, would turn and face him and used the word "I" over and over again while telling his little stories... McCain was not is not presidential!
(Win) (Lost)
Obama 1 McCain 1
I suppose it's good that Obama held his own on what is supposed to be McCain's home turf.
Also: McCain's smile/laugh was creepy.
Olberman on !!!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26906945?GT1=43001
http://www.cnn.com/
Obama way out on top of McGrampy.
Undecideds changed the channel.
I loved the debate because it was about issues - even McCain's repetitious talking points couldn't sidetrack it. Still, that probably means that your average everyday voter got bored and tuned out. My fiance, a Democrat who doesn't have time to get involved, got up to check her email 30 minutes in.
He'll rip McCain on domestic issues, lobbyists, his voting record, healthcare, veterans rights etc.
Secondly: McCain didn't hit a home run, and Obama's command of foreign policy was impressive in the eyes of both repubs and dems.
McGrampy was snearing, grouchy and nasty...down right lied so many times I finally turned it off.
On the other hand, I found Obama weak in his responses. He comes across too cerebral and too "laid back". He needs to become more aggressive and more like the guy that good ol' boys would like to have a Bud with. Whether that would be an option is immaterial of course. He can't come across too black guy with an elite education. This doesn't fly in America's trailer parks...
McCain also did not have a come back about Bin Laden remember he kept saying that he knew where Bin Laden was and how to capture him.
I want to know how anyone could say that McCain won, McCain lied over and over and ran as far away from bush that he could.
Plus Obama agreed with some of the initial statements that John McCain said then he followed up with the important disagreements will and that will just end uo trapping McCain in more lies because McCain will say Obama agreens with me but he will leave out the other and most important parts proving just howmch of a lia he is.
Talking about how snotty McGrampy was towards Obama and this must be the new talking point.
Rachel talking about how Obama took on Bush directly which I noticed as well.
Talking about McGrampy calling Pakistan a failed state and how McGrampy talked about how we tortured people.
?
Sadly, most voting Americans pay little attention to the run up to the debates. They tune in by the millions to see what they hope/want/need to see from their candidate.
I am talking style when I say, McCain's crowd got what they needed and early voting has already started in many states plus, McCain still leads in the electoral college numbers. Barring a McCain melt down, this is going to be a long hard slog. Dems have to keep a great ground game to make sure the votes tally for Obama. I recommend improvement for Obama in the presentation department for the next debate.
But heres the real question.. why didnt McCain look at Obama once in the whole debate? It was very condescending, and downright dismissive, and I think it was embarassing for McCain.
McCain acted as though there was no one else on the stage with him.
McCain came across as competent but cold, bitter and vindictive.
Besides he was doing lots of strawman of Obama's remarks and positions.
My analysis is: This is the first time the entire nation, Indie, Reps, and Dems were all looking at these two side by side. The Neocons have tried to paint Obama as someone who needs to be tethered to a teleprompter. Clearly, Obama came off as cool, comptitent and presidential with an intricate command of the details. That is all the Obama camp wanted to show at this first debate. The undecides wanted to see that in Obama. The undecideds are that way specifically because they see the current affairs as uncertain, they want change, but they did not know if Obama had the mental prowess to understand all of the details. They saw that tonight. That is why the independants and undecides are NOW breaking to Obama.
Their thought process is: OK, wow, this guy really does know what he is doing, and he really does care about kitchen table issues.
That is all the Obama camp wanted, they got it. Huge win for Obama.
The next two debates will be Obama skewering McCain with one liners and gotcha Ronald Reaganesque quips. I garantee it.
It is all going according to plan for Obama.
Kudos to you Senator O, excellent job.
The one place where Obama destroyed McCain was on all the little things that Americans tend to focus on. Obama looked at the camera, he looked at his opponent, he came across as likeable, etc. McCain failed miserably on all of the little stuff. He never looked at Obama. He constantly laughed strangely at things Obama would say without laying an eye on him. He never looked at the camera and he was pretty darn grumpy overall as well. McCain did nothing to connect to anyone in the room nor the people watching at home.
McCain is unable to look outside defense spending and war. Palin is chomping at the bit to be Mini Cheney.
I am so tired of hearing about wars abroad when we are fighting wars here everyday. I lost my bank today. I hate the bank that bought it. What do I do? Who else do I go to? That is what is important to me today. The war is like a fly buzzing around my face. The economy is the bee getting ready to sting my arm (which I am deathly allergic to).
Also, I don't hear enough about McCains $5k health plan. I hope this is brought up more, especially in a debate. $5K (before taxes) doesn't pay for crap. Not that I understand his plan, but my insurance premiums (for me alone) are like $500 a month if my employer contribution is removed. I just had labs done that cost $1374 and have had $400 in other medical bills in the past 2 months, not including meds. And those costs are for one PCP appt, a foot xray, a specialist visit, and one medication. That $5 would already be gone.
At any rate, credit unions and small banks are probably the best place for us average everyday consumers and citizens right now.
And you're right about McCain's $5k health credit. Talk about lipstick on a pig! My husband and I are retired but are not 65 yet. We also help our daughter out with her medical insurance (she is just out of college and working in the arts, ergo no medical coverage). Our combined annual premiums for health insurance are in the $15,000 range and going up, as our deductibles are also going up.
And fact check or review them without having to rely on the mainstream media to do it for us.
ah, I see a column on Huffington Post covers exactly how I feel: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nora-ephron/rings...
McCain was noticeably reluctant to look at Obama, and this reflected poorly on him.
The tax issue will be thorny. Obama will need to be forceful here to prevent looking like the typical "tax-raising Democrat."
I was surprised no one has picked up on McCain's comment about discontinuing Ethanol. While I personally agree that Ethanol's a bust, I would think stating that would be a bad political move if he wants to keep the Midwest happy.
I wish McCain hadn't showed up--can you imagine the spectacle of Obama toe-tapping, and looking at his watch a couple of times, as if "waiting" for McCain? That would have been hillarious!
By far the most important debate in this series will be the VP's. I can't wait! If Biden can't make Palin look totally stupid, there's something wrong...