DISQUS

hopeless pedant · 1 year ago

Another example of the absolute disgrace that the no on 8 campaign was.

That said, the black vote did not make the difference. The exit poll results - both 10% of the turnout and 70-30 against - both have been thoroughly debunked.

Blacks make up about 6% of registered voters in CA. Now that nearly all the votes are in, those areas that have the highest black populations and the most church-going blacks (south central LA for example) had similar turnout to 2004, while the state ticked up slightly.

And those precincts - again where the least assimilated and therefore most likely to be most unaffected by more open gay attitudes - can be specifically looked at for their votes - which were between 60-65% yes. The % yes vote again for likely far lower in non-segregated neighborhoods.

So both the total of the vote and the margin yes won by were less than first and inaccurately reported. If you took every black yes vote out of the totals, 8 still would have won by several hundred thousand votes.

dula · 1 year ago

I haven't heard any poll that suggests Black turnout was the same as in 2004. Regardless, it doesn't justify or excuse the overwhelming homophobia in the Black Church.

Gary SF · 1 year ago

The more we know about the 'black vote' the more that many of us suspect that it was 57% (or there abouts) that voted for prop 8 not 70%. Regardless, the fact is that the no on 8 folks ran one of the worst campaigns in recent memory. I just unsubscribed from their emails as they have not acknowledged that they screwed-up.

Webster · 1 year ago

Yes, the "no on 8" folks did a crappy job. However this just may have been a learning moment for the predominately white gay activists as well--to take a look at our inherent racism and how we can encourage more inclusiveness by being more inclusive. If we are going to be a community we need to be a united community. We must be in this together.

dula · 1 year ago

Where are you getting those numbers from? I haven't heard anyone correct the 70% first reported from exit polling.

eclecticbrotha · 1 year ago

Keep in mind you're talking about an EXIT POLL. No one knows how anyone voted, that's why they're called "secret" ballots. Before the election all the more reliable pollsters were telling everyone not to trust exit polls. It seems everyone listened - until Prop 8. Suddenly exit polls are the only "truth" that matters.

dula · 1 year ago

Oh gee, I guess all that homophobia in the Black Church was fantasy...all those yes on Prop. 8 signs in Compton were a mirage. It was only 57% of Black voters who voted to take Civil Rights away from another minority. That's nothing.

Gary SF · 1 year ago

Nobody is saying that the 'black church' is anything but homophobic. But the original post was about how the No on 8 people did not do any outreach to communities of color, which was idiotic.

Guest · 1 year ago

Guest · 11 months ago

Gary SF · 1 year ago

The 57% number is coming from the No on 8 folks - Kate Kendall, et. al. Also, Scott is right - the sample size was about 230 for the entire state, and there was no indication of regional diversity in the people being polled.

Guest · 11 months ago

scottinsf · 1 year ago

I agree Gary. Everybody is throwing around this 70% number from that one and only poll. The sample size wasn't that big, considering blacks are a fairly small minority in California. They also don't say where these exit polls were taken. I've mentioned Alameda County before. It has one of the highest per capita percentages of blacks in the state. Alameda County is a populous county and voted strongly no on 8 overall. I don't buy that 70% figure at all. Not statewide either. I think you're probably really close with that 57% number.

Guest · 1 year ago

LarryR · 1 year ago

No, it's not a disgrace of the No Campaign. It's a disgrace of the black voters who figure that this wasn't a civil rights issue and could rightly identify it as that.

I had conversations with black people who said that they didn't care because this wasn't THEIR issue. WELL, human rights are human rights and you can't say 'Oh, my black civil rights are important and supercede ones based on gender or sexual orientation. '

and it's not a 'zero sum' game - you don't have fewer rights as a black person because I gain rights as a gay person.

Let the games begin.

David Liao · 1 year ago

Aiyah. Well I did write my first grade teacher before the vote. For what it's worth she is an African-American woman who grew up in the south, and she told me not to worry because she had already marked her absentee ballot No on Prop 8 because she believed that God intended all his children to love whomever they chose.

I'm an atheist, but quite liberal, i.e. not Dawkins' atheist version of hellfire and brimstone. I would like to think that I am as similar to a Dawkins atheist as Unitarians would like to think of themselves as similar to Evangelicals. Religion is a good thing for good people and a bad thing for bad people, and I do like seeing examples when my friends who are "traditionally" religious use religion to support "non-traditional" civil rights.

Is it possible to get David Plouffe to run Repeal 8 2010?

David Liao
PhD Candidate
Department of Physics
Princeton University, Princeton, NJ

LarryR · 1 year ago

oh and white people died in the south fighting for black civil rights in the 60s when it wasn't their battle. Any blacks die during Prop 8 campaigning?

okojo · 1 year ago

So I guess that instead of boycotting Sundance, you are going to boycott the NAACP convention?!?! or boycott New Orleans????!?!

What made the difference in my opinion, is the ethnic melting pot that is called Southern California, Whether it is Latino, Asian, African American, they either voted 65-30 or 50-50 for Prop 8. Getting 50/50 in LA county is a failure for the No on Prop 8 campaign.

Indigo · 1 year ago

Missing from this discussion is the motive of the so-called "leaders" who were charged with organizing the no vote. We know they weren't effective, we know they're spinning tales about how it was, we know they didn't try very hard, and we also know that they talk a lot about how important to the gay community they are.

I suggest they aren't at all important, I suggest that they behave like Quizlings. What's their story? What's their motive? Where's their money? Whom do they date? How openly gay inside the gay community are they? Are they merely business gays? Are they using the community for personal gain? Is the gay community anything more to them than a playground where they rehearse activism in order to get a name in circles where they imagine there is power?

Right now, the gay leaders are behaving as high-handed as automotive exectuives. No more spin. Let's hold the "leaders" to a strict accounting. What, exactly, is their business plan?

dula · 1 year ago

Yes, I would like to know if they spent all the money that was donated to fight Prop. 8 or did they hold back in order to bankroll themselves in the future.

KarenMrsLloydRichards · 1 year ago

So: It's the responsibility of oppressed people to prevent the tyranny of the majority. That's right: blame the victims.

RainbowPhoenix · 1 year ago

When the minority does a job this crappy, some blame is warranted.

RainbowPhoenix · 1 year ago

While I agree wholeheartedly that the outreach to racial minorities was beyond pathetic, it still wasn't enough to tip the scales. That being said, there are plenty of other reasons to throw out and replace our current leadership.

dula · 1 year ago

I don't think any sort of magical "outreach" could have competed with the brainwashing the Black Community got from their Preachers.

willnyc · 1 year ago

I hate to start off with two negatives, but ... how about a little bit of both?
Yes, the No on 8 campaign was a disgrace b/c it was run by complete amateurs. And yes, there is rampant homophobia in the Catholic, Mormon, Baptist, and black communities.
So first, anyone involved in the upper echelons of the last NO8 campaign should apologize, step down, and offer support from the sidelines. Get out of the way for the professionals to do the work. I'm still waiting for an email from the HRC that isn't nauseatingly conciliatory. Second, the Catholic, Mormon, Baptist, and black preachers, community leaders and organizers who helped out on Yes8 should be targeted as bigots and asked to step down.

Coming Undone · 1 year ago

What went wrong with the Prop 8 vote in California, was that only people in the Gay and Lesbian communities knew about it. The black community did not have the big bucks to fight against gay rights but they are being blamed for it. This is insane.

dula · 1 year ago

The Black Communities knew about Prop. 8 because their religious "leaders" urged them to vote yes on it.

kevinbgoode · 1 year ago

Are you saying the Black community was incapable of reading the explanation of the proposition on the ballot? What part of "REMOVES. . .RIGHTS" would be impossible to understand?

Guest · 1 year ago

gustavmahler · 1 year ago

yeah it's the blacks fault again. trying to blame us for this is ridiculous. what is wrong with john now? i guess it is time for me to leave americablog for good. 6% of the vote, but somehow the math makes it our fault.

eclare · 1 year ago

I actually read this post as more of a condemnation of the LGBT leadership for their failure to recognize an important constituency. I'm really bad at stats so I absolutely refuse to get involved in the numbers debate, but I think it's fair to say that there was a sweeping, across-the-board failure to engage important voting blocks.

Guest · 1 year ago

homogenius · 1 year ago

OK, so here's the problem with this reasoning...

The No on 8 organizers fucked up big time. And among other things, they didn't do enough outreach to communities of color.

So what?

We already know that rank and file black voters weren't listening to their civil rights leaders. For a long time now, the national leadership has been supportive of LGBT rights, including marriage equality. Let's go down the list again: national NAACP, Coretta Scott King, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, John Lewis. All supportive of LGBT civil rights.

But the black fundiegelicals weren't listening to these civil rights leaders--they were listening to their fundiebigot preachers. So how much "outreach" is going to help here? What we learned from this election is that black fundiegelicals are every bit as much log-stupid as white fundiegelicals. Except white fundiegelicals don't need the help of other oppressed minorities for equality and justice.

Oops.

Most gay people I know are going to keep working to clean up our own house. We'll keep fighting for greater inclusiveness in our community organizations and events and fighting disrimination in our community businesses. But...when it comes to continuing the fight for racial justice and equality, oops. Discrimination based on race has been prohibited in federal law for over 40 years. Based on religion prohibited in the constitution for over 200 years. But there are ZERO protections for LGBT people in federal law. NONE.

What I'm hearing from a lot of my gay friends is that African-Americans don't want our help. So we're going to work on OUR RIGHTS first. We'll continue the fight for racial justice and equality after we catch up.

Quelle suprise.

eclecticbrotha · 1 year ago

Sounds like somebody just likes hating on the black community. Oops.

pdxprobert · 1 year ago

In the past year, I watched on cspan as one of the black leaders who has been supportive of the LGBT community tried to bring up the subject of homophobia that is rampant in the black community, and I watched that leader be shouted down by his black audience..they didnt want to talk about it.. they thought there are more pressing issues for the black community... I don't remember his name but I know him by sight and by his cadence in his speech... the most blatant prejudice Ive ever experienced has been from the black community....that doesnt mean i havent experienced prejudice from the white community or others, but just that it wasnt as obvious... ultimatley what Im saying is there needs to be more outreach into the black community and other minority groups...

willnyc · 1 year ago

That post wasn't hating on the black community at all. It was a call for LGBT people to fight our own fight, without the help of anyone, even people of color, despite the fact that many of us think that African Americans might understand best and help us the most. Apparently, we're on our own. And now we finally, truly understand that.

pdxprobert · 1 year ago

it seems in the minority populations and in general, i would say none of them typically defined by race, want to be associated with or thought of as being on an equal status in definition to a homosexual.... in other words, those that dont support gay equal rights along with thier own quest for equality, will most likely say amongst each other, atleast were not queer.

I remember watching the original documentary "The Life and Times of Harvey Milk " and how he used the term "crumbs" for what gay people were supposed to settle for and how he was going to change that...

Guest · 1 year ago

Boycottutah · 1 year ago

Amen!

Michael in Venice, CA · 1 year ago

It's unfair to blame the failure of NO on African Americans. The "leaders" didn't involve them. And I'll go you one better - they didn't involve the gay community very much either. Oh, they were good at asking us for money, but none of their ads ever featured gay couples, like my partner and myself, or gay couples of color, or gay couples with children, for that matter ... we were ALL swept under the rug. Why? Because the "leaders" thought we would turn people off if people actually saw us on , or, god forbid, going door to door. Our marriages are in danger of being wiped off the books, regardless of our color - so don't scapegoat the African American community. It's the "leaders" fault. They ALL need to resign!

dula · 1 year ago

Yeah, and all women who wear short skirts are asking for it. No means NO unless it's Yes on Prop. 8.

publicsteele · 1 year ago

The New Yorker reports that the measure would have passed even if not a single black voter showed up at the polls. That would have to mean that there were fewer black voters than the margin of victory, around 500,000 votes.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2008/12/0...

Does anyone know how many black people voted in the election?

CPL · 1 year ago

So when will the Black Community get a formal apology from Andrew Sullivan on this? He lit the fire and fanned the flames on this one, and other blogs like AmericaBlog, pick up Sully's rant and ran with it before getting the facts.

eclecticbrotha · 1 year ago

Probably not.

Guest · 11 months ago

C.S.Strowbridge · 1 year ago

Here's how I would have done African American outreach...

"40 years ago the Mormon Church taught that the only way for a black man to get into heaven was as a slave. Now they are telling you to vote against gay marriage. Say no to intolerance in all of its forms. Say no to Prop 8."

pdxprobert · 1 year ago

Did the No on 8 organizers reach out to the Asian and Latino communities in a more aggressive manner? Or was the outreach the same to all minority groups? Just who did the No on 8 organizers reach out to?

Nakhone · 1 year ago

The No on 8 Organizers reached out to the focus-group based undecided voters per the political consultant Steve Smith's 'expertise.' There was a huge coalition where each groups reached out to their own constituents. This post has brought light that the Campaign snubbed the African-American sections of our community. I can see where there would be a conflict of messaging because the No on 8 Campaign wanted to talk about and fight for marriage (they never used or dare utter the words 'Gay Marriage' or 'Civil Rights' but were told to only stick to the message of 'Marriage' and 'Fairness' and 'Equality'. Well, that didn't work. As far as the African-Americans were concerned, they seemed to be MIA as far as volunteer was concerned. Heck, they are still nowhere to be found at any of the protests and rallies that I've been to. I call for them to stop waiting for be invited and start getting involved. It's all our fights.

pdxprobert · 1 year ago

I think the MIA status is just a sign of how minority politics works.. What I hear most from the black community in regards to the gay rights movement is an implied, how dare you compare your plight to ours, your struggle is not equal.... as though gay people are not the target of violence at the levels the black community has endured, so gays cant claim the same level of harm has been done to them..

it's a belief I percieve by blacks and other traditionally discriminated upon races, are somehow more deserving than homosexuals.. its a my minority status is more worthy than yours attitude and is more legitimate than your struggle..... at least thats how I interpret their MIA status...

Their attachment to fundamentalist religion plays a big role in their view of gay people as seperate and unworthy of their support and causes the distancing we observe.. I realize there are supporters of gay rights in the black community and within the leadership of their community, Jesse Jackson comes to mind and there are others... but I must say it boils down to a perception by many blacks that they own the term "civil rights" and the experience that invokes, just as how many Jews believe they own how the word "Nazi" can be used...

ps - plus the factor that many people believe homosexuals choose to be that way... but none of those people that hold that archaic and ignorant belief will answer, "just when did they choose not to be gay in favor of being straight?" Many people just can't make that connection that we dont choose to be gay any more than they choose to be straight... unless there's something that straight people arent telling us and that they have attractions to both sexes but just dont act on them... Maybe thats why some of the most righteous anti-gay people are the way they are, because they are living a lie? Is that it maybe?

Guest · 1 year ago

mirth · 1 year ago

What statistics were those and how was the information gathered?

Guest · 11 months ago

Buddha in SF · 1 year ago

Wait ,I am conused, as a gay person I thought I was supposed to take my anger out on only Mormons, but there are other people besides Mormons who voted yes on 8? But I was led to believe that the Mormons were the enemy, now this, So who can we blame now? Is it possible to blame the system, and not a race, or religion....no that would make sense.

Steve_in_CNJ · 1 year ago

mormons were the bankers -- they are in a class by themselves. john has made this point several times. catholics spent lavishly also, but the culture is more diverse and less maniacal. pick your own target and your own strategy

Boycottutah · 1 year ago

The mormons were the financial and intellectual horsepower behind prop 8. They were the money and the brains behind the cause. Not the African American community.

kevinbgoode · 1 year ago

Yes...and wouldn't you be so very pleased if we just said nothing.

Guest · 1 year ago

Steve_in_CNJ · 1 year ago

70% black hate is not materially worse than 50% white hate, since the goal in both cases is 0%. the ads should have featured all kinds of mormons, catholics, baptists and black protestants opposed to discrimination. off the air, there should have been community forums bringing the sides together. liberal congregations sharing services with conservative ones. i'm not religious but i know these strategies do chip away at the resistance.

Erasure · 1 year ago

C.S. Stowbridge. What a powerful example the African Americans have set, they found forgiveness in their hearts and have been mature and forgave the Mormons. Now the only slave is you...a slave to your hate. Maybe you can come to grips with the fact that Prop 8 failed because the people spoke up and voted, not because some small church pushed the issue of keeping the biblical teachings of traditional marriage.

Good luck, and please think twice before throwing out a subject which has nothing to do with the article out there.

Steve_in_CNJ · 1 year ago

the mormons "pushed the issue" by lying and fearmongering. this has nothing to do with biblical "teachings" and you know it. it is raw prejudice.

C.S.Strowbridge · 1 year ago

I noticed you didn't even try to correct my facts you just attacked me being 'a slave to hate.'

So, did the Mormons not teach blacks could only get into heaven as a slave? (They say a similar thing about women. That they can only get into heaven as property of their husbands.) Does the book of Mormon not say dark skin is a sign of a curse, and if the curse is lifted, the skin will turn white?

But you are right about one thing, I hate the Mormon Church. I hate any organization that using a book that was obviously written by a man / men as an excuse to hate other people.

By the way, Religions can't change. Either their teachings are inspired by God, or they are not. If they were wrong in the past, then there's no reason to accept their teachings now. You either accept it all, or you discard it all.

Tom · 1 year ago

I bet a majority of people have no idea what the Mormon church teaches about them. The Black voters in California included, so I doubt forgiveness had anything to do with a yes on 8 vote and the basis of the yes is solely from ignorance that is taught in the most segregated hour of the week.

C.S.Strowbridge · 1 year ago

Two days later and still no response. What factual errors did I make? If you are going to claim I was wrong, back it up, or shut up.

fredndallas · 1 year ago

I am finally and totally really, really pissed.

I became an activist for black civil rights in the South 41 years ago. Coming out gay, I expanded my fight for gay equality 3 years later.

With very few exceptions through the years, gay "leadership" has been a self-serving joke. Prop 8 is just the latest example.

NOT a joke has been the continual rampant homophobia in the black churches. My patience with it has ended and so should our community's.

The Catholics use gay attacks to cover their pedophilia and gayness in the ranks. The Mormons use gay attacks to cover their sordid history, their polygamy and institutionalized seduction of under age females. The Muslims use gay attacks to cover (I'm ignorant). The black preachers use gay attacks to (it's a long list).

NO LONGER do I give black church goers ANY KIND OF PASS WHATSOEVER for homophobia and the outrageous REFUSAL to support GLBT equality in civil rights. NONE! Enough.

It is time for the black church community to have their hand called on their lack of love, lack of justice, lack of fairness, lack of equality, lack of conscience, lack of memory and lack of honesty. In their hearts, they know better.

Of course similar strong challenge must be issued to all the other religious interests who are riding the gay issue for all they can gain from it.

Time is up. Gloves off. Accountability. Truth!

pdxprobert · 1 year ago

Nicely put Fred....

I authored the following comment yesterday on another Americablog thread... we need to turn the use of religion based prejudice and discrimination into a strength, and use the protection afforded to all people in the constitution as our way of combatting this ongoing quest by the religious right to deny us full citizenship... here are my thoughts on how to do it..

"I am a human being, an American citizen and a recipient of the guarantee's afforded to me and every other citizen of the United States of America through our constitution, therefore I have every right to be protected from religious bigotry as I am protected by the 1st amendment from the intolerance brought onto me and people like me through religion based prejudices... the 1st amendment reads:

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

If congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, then how can any state make a law and enforce it if it is formed from and through religious sentiment and is championed by members of the religious community? Proposition 8 and all other anti-gay measures are all based on religious doctrines by selectively reading and interpreting biblical and other religion based passages to justify religion based prejudice and less than equal treatment of LGBT peoples.

Therefore, I am protected from religious bigotry and have equal access to all the benefits and responsibilities offered to all human beings... Its that simple"....

kevinbgoode · 1 year ago

Exactly - and for their treatment of African-American gays.

foxy · 1 year ago

**applaud**

Boycottutah · 1 year ago

Amen. And no more gay dollars to groups and causes not supporting our basic civil rights.

RitornaVincitor · 1 year ago

Thank you!!!!

vkobaya · 1 year ago

Yipeee! Goody, goody! Stupid liberal suckers.

Letting the right wing play us against each other again. This time it is white gays against Blacks. Stop falling for thse devisive tactics. Yes, the gays lost. Who do you think the Republicans want you to blame? Why lynch some Blacks. Would really make the Republicans happy. The gays fucked up the No on 8 campaign and have themselves to blame. But, of course, if you'd rather be played for a sucker again by the Republicans, yes go ahead and lynch any Blacks you can get your hands on. Make sure the Blacks know that it was White gays who hung their people.

While you're at it, you can also set the Blacks against the Hispanics and Asians against both. Put on Black face paint and rape some women too, murder some Catholics, kill and eat some little children, burn our schools and steal from the poor. Yeah, might as well go whole hog for the right wing agenda while you're aligning yourself with the Republicans. You like being suckers, do it right. Fall for the whole hateful evil right wing agenda. Don't forget the Swastikas, concentration camps and the funny, stinky showers and ovens too.

kevinbgoode · 1 year ago

I don't think the explanation of the amendment on the ballot was difficult to understand, do you? Didn't it CLEARLY state that it ELIMINATES the right of same-sex couples to marry?

I don't give a fuck what party or race or "religion" someone is, but I'm not going to give any person or group a free pass when it was clearly indicated this would REMOVE someone else's constitutional rights.

Guest · 1 year ago

Joseph Smith's Wives · 1 year ago

Have pity for some Mormons.

I was only 14 when Joe married me.
Nancy Winchester

I loved Henry Jacobs and even though Joe wanted me for himself I married Henry. But shortly afterwards Joe, who was already married, sent word to me by my brother, saying,
"Tell Zina, I put it off and put it off till an angel with a drawn sword stood by me and told me if I did not establish that principle [of plural marriage] upon the earth I would lose my position and my life”. Joseph further explained to my brother that, “the Lord had made it known to him she was to be his celestial wife.”
Zina Huntington Jacobs.

True stories.

UncleGlenny · 1 year ago

Two words: Bayard Rustin

I'm surprised to have not seen him mentioned in anything I've read about this (which doesn't necessarily mean much....).

Webster · 1 year ago

It just means (*sigh*) that most Americans don't know their history.

horus · 1 year ago

most americans have no idea who Bayard Rustin was, including african americans. very sad to say. he gave so much to us all, gays and african americans. Bayard, are you watching?

srb · 1 year ago

One wonders how many white gays voted in favor of prop. 209? From what I've read on this since election day, I'd say that homophobia among black evangelicals is about evenly matched by racism among white gay men.

xhepera · 1 year ago

Glad someone said it. I've wondered similar. It doesn't excuse what happened with Prop. 8 but the sword cuts both ways, ya know? One word, used a couple of times in the article rings true for me as it's something that I've noticed since my days as a young gay man. I'm no longer young, but some things never change I guess. And one thing that hasn't changed is that the white gay male community is largely "dismissive" of people of color (especially blacks) and their concerns. The obvious racism of blaming black people, as a group, for the passage of Prop 8 needs no comment, except to point out that those who do should be as ashamed of themselves as the people who actually DID vote for the proposition.

Guest · 1 year ago

xhepera · 1 year ago

There's little, if anything, that you can educate me on regarding "gay anger." Do you think that because I am African American that my anger over Prop 8, as a gay man, is somehow mitigated? That my partner (who is white) and I, both California natives and together for 25 years enjoyed seeing the dream dashed to pieces and excuse what happened in the polls? You would be dead wrong. Unlike you, I am willing and able to see the error on both sides of the fence. You have the luxury of only seeing it from one side. It is a luxury that does not, however, serve you well in the end. Reading your comments through this thread, it has become obvious to me that you some racial subtexts going on that prevent clarity on the subject. Be that as it may, they're YOUR issues. And I don't have to buy into them. Thank you for your time.

pileto · 12 months ago

I don't see how someone who is able to see both sides can place the blame on the wrong side. Gay people are the victims here.

Guest · 11 months ago

Jeffreyxyz · 1 year ago

John has his facts and figures wrong and if he does a little digging he will learn that changing the black vote alone would not have changed the outcome of Prop 8. And if people from the NO on 8 campaign actually rejected help from ANYONE, whatever their skin color, they should be pilloried in the public square and held accountable for this terrible fiasco.
HOWEVER, it is horrifying that black voters (other minority groups as well) could walk into a voting booth and, with a stroke of a pen, trample on the civil rights of another minority group. It doesn't matter how much "outreach" was done or not done. Given the history of the black civil rights movement, not one single AA should have done what 60% or so did to us. It is not hating on the black community to point this out. It is their hatred of us that needs to be brought into the open. And if an overwhelming majority of AA voters can pay attention to what their churches are teaching and forget what the racist history of our country has taught them---then shame on them. Black musicians and athletes and preachers say dispicable things about me. And yet, I would NEVER cast a vote to make them less than because I, too, am a repressed minority and I get it. Why don't they?
I am not casting aspersions on the AAs who are on our side--our GLBT brothers and sisters and plenty of others.
But the ones who aren't on our side......they make me want to puke.

LeftCoastOracle · 1 year ago

I think I have to disagree because it wouldn't matter what demographic voted no on prop 8 in those proportions we still would have won. We just needed a 2.5% swing from any group; white, black, Asian, Latino... makes no difference what color.

I recommend the article in this week's Advocate: a good analysis of what went wrong. It pretty much lays the blame at the door of those in charge of No on 8.

Personally I'm more interested in the story that came out today:an ABC poll revealed that 8% of those who voted for prop 8 have changed their minds and would vote no if they had another chance. They apparently were influenced by the magnitude of the outrage from our community since election day.

RBURKE · 1 year ago

First of all I could care less whether gays get married or not. It's not a big deal to me. It still means a commitment to one another. I'm no bible thumping invidividual and perhaps that's why I have no problem with the situation. BUT...the majority of the voters did have a problem with it. Why cannot you proponents go along with the majority vote. We are fortunate enough to live in a country where we are allowed to vote. The majority wins. What if your opponents took the Obama election to court because they didn't like it or hm? The majority voted him in. They live with it as should you live with this vote. Going against the majority vote is truly unamerican. I'm sorry you feel you need to see it otherwise. Quit boycotting people because they don't see things your way. How terribly selfish of y ou to believe it's your way or the highway. Bring the subject up again at a later date. You lost as did McCanin. Get over it and be fair.

Guest · 1 year ago

Naked Bunny with a Whip · 1 year ago

Why cannot you proponents go along with the majority vote.

You really don't understand how rights work, huh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_maj...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia

cowboyneok · 1 year ago

Its called "Tyranny of the majority" and LOOK IT UP. By reading you comment, you should spend more time looking things up and less time commenting.

Guest · 1 year ago

Gary SF · 1 year ago

Gee, you seem to be a perpetual crime victim. But you also seem racist enough to embellish your stories. Maybe if you didn't wear your Klan costume everywhere you wouldn't be attacked so much.

Guest · 1 year ago

Boycottutah · 1 year ago

I understand your points. When members of one group consistently attack you based on your membership or perceived membership of another group it is difficult not to be afraid of or uncomfortable with members of that group.

But don't you know the rule among the PC police is that ANY criticism of people of African descent is per se racist, and any person making such a remark or criticism is per se "a racist". And being a racist is far, far, far worse than being a homophobe.

Guest · 1 year ago

cowboyneok · 1 year ago

No being a racist is universally unacceptable but being a homophobe is expressing one's "First Amendment Rights" or "Freedom of religion."

The same goes with Hate Crimes. If you beat someone because of their religion or race, its a hate crime, if you do it because they are gay its just "assault" and good luck getting it prosecuted properly. If you burn down a church, its Church Arson and a crime with special punishment because you are sending a hateful scary negative message to an entire community of people but if you do the same thing to LGBT Equality Center its just plain arson. Understand?

Boycottutah · 1 year ago

To be fair I live in Berkeley and travel through Oakland to get to work. In the last two years I have been called "faggot" more than a dozen times. Each and every time it happened a person of African descent uttered the term.

When I hear the word casually used in public in the uber liberal bay area, it is being used by people of African descent. For whatever cultural reasons, it seems that there is a great deal of hatred of LGBT people within the African American community.
Racists and homophobes are both bigots.

Guest · 1 year ago

mirth · 1 year ago

Sorry to say, your racism has for me negated all of your other good comments. I can't get passed the boldness with which you express your prejudice! And I am not surprised that you attract such aggressiveness from African-Americans.

pdxprobert · 1 year ago

what makes him a racists? is it because he expressed his experience and it wasnt favorable of the people he was talking about... should he have not said what color they were, even though the subject of this article is about the black vote and its impact on Prop 8? Am I a racists too now, because I asked you to explain why you called him a racists... just curious..

pileto · 12 months ago

What makes her a racist? Being attackes?

Guest · 11 months ago

pdxprobert · 1 year ago

i asked mirth to explain why he called you a racists? I think the term racists is used to often as a way to stop the conversation... why wasnt mirth so agitated by the black guy that called you faggot ass and the other blacks you noted in other articles that stole from you and beat you up and called you a cracker if i recall..... i will admit, you are spiteful in a subtle way, but i didnt see where you were planning on inflicting violence on blacks as you noted was perpetrated on you in several of your posts and quite possibly for being percieved as a "fag"...have you ever noticed how gay people are typically beaten up by groups of guys as opposed to one on one encounters.... the group mentality thing seems to look for someone they think wont fight back...

RitornaVincitor · 12 months ago

I sure have noticed that attacks on gays are usually the work of groups. I've always thought that it was a way for the perpetrators to demonstrate to their companions that they are not gay. But of course that begs the questions, "Why do they need to prove it?", and "To whom are they proving it?". I guess for some who have a lot to prove to themselves and their friends, the chosen way to look straight is to gang up on a gay person and beat him to a pulp.

pdxprobert · 12 months ago

several years ago I went to a gay themed short films festival... the one I remember most is where these two guys were walking out of a gay bar.. one of the guys was a bear type the other more the stereotyped flighty gay character.. they ran into a gang a gay bashers beating up on a gay guy.. the bear dude was able to take control of the situation and scared the bashers off.. he recognized one later on and made friends with him.. the bear dude invited the guy to spaghetti dinner at his moms house... it started off just like any dinner guest arriving would.. if i recall correctly, the mother never was part of the scenes..it kind of inferred the gay bear was going to put the make on the basher but then the bear served a plate of spaghetti to the basher... but instead putting it on the table, he spilled it all over the guy with an unmistaken deliberateness.. then as the basher was wondering what happened, the bear went on to appear to be trying to help him clean off the mess, but kept on making it more of a mess on the basher then knocking the basher down until they ended up outside where he kicked the hell out of the guy.. with a reminder to to basher to pick on someone who'll pick back if he wants to show how tough he is... it was a real good touche moment...

pileto · 12 months ago

It doesn't sound like she was wearing a costume. It sounds like she was minding her own business and was attacked. Too often victims are blamed.

kevinbgoode · 1 year ago

Oh come on - exactly how difficult was it to take a ballot into a booth, read an explanation of a proposition which says "REMOVES RIGHTS" and vote NO?

They clearly voted to REMOVE someone else's RIGHTS. I don't care who or how many - they voted to REMOVE someone else's rights. And the excuses are horrendous. How much outreach do we need to do to explain a simple English sentence which said "REMOVES RIGHTS" from someone else?

There was simply no excuse for that vote from ANY minority group.

DLR · 1 year ago

Thanks for being inclusive and showing the Asian voting results. The Asian communities are often overlooked because it's size, about 4.2% of the general population according to the 2000 census. At twice the size of the Jewish population, politicians ignore us at their own risk. I wonder how much effort was made by the campaign to outreach to my communities?

Guest · 1 year ago

DLR · 1 year ago

I don't think feasting is the right word for this. So if this is a feast why leave out the Latino community as the majority voted for Prop 8? And, yes, good or bad, people need to stop leaving out the Asian communities when discussing this or any other issue. I was actually complimenting Americablog for not leaving us out.

Guest · 11 months ago

Naked Bunny with a Whip · 1 year ago

So the problem is that the No on 8 people assumed that African Americans would understand the parallels of history, and this person is saying that, no, they needed to be spoonfed ideas because they'll just vote for whoever talks to them the most rather than using their reasoning skills to determine what's true and what's right. Seems pretty insulting toward African Americans to me.

xhepera · 1 year ago

What's insulting to African Americans is the use of Prop. 8 to excuse the racist assumption that we all are raging homophobes. What's insulting to gay African Americans is the refusal of the white gay male community to own up to the racism and dismissive attitudes toward black people within its own ranks. As a gay African American man old enough to remember racial segregation, the Mattachine Society and Stonewall, and who has fought for equal rights for ALL people for most of my life, I resent it as much as I resent homophobic, hate-filled, black so-called preachers and Christians. It's more subtle, but it is EVERY bit as toxic. And there will be no end to this until BOTH get their goddamned acts together.

Boycottutah · 1 year ago

Actually, religious conservatives are sounded the horn the loudest regarding the African American vote to take the heat off of them. Exit polls are not always accurate, and I think the 70 percent figure is a little high.

BraydenWicker · 1 year ago

I agree. I think it worked.

whomod · 1 year ago

Well the stats certainly reflect the fact that while most African Americans were making a stand for equality in electing Obama, they also were voting against equality for gays. I tend to agree with you that it may be more religious than racial. And that was a failing of both religious leaders, the No On 8 people educating people to the truth inequality for some is unacceptable, and black political leaders making their voices heard on this issue.

Ultimately what it means to me is that we're again seeing a divide and conquer strategy. And I frankly reject it. I recall the media being rife with blacks VS Latino stories for a while there and now it's blacks VS gays.

xhepera · 1 year ago

You're absolutely right. The divide and conquer strategy has been a tried and true solution for many ages of humanity, and we're still too stupid to not fall for it in this day and age. Shameful.

Guest · 11 months ago

RitornaVincitor · 1 year ago

You're fighting an uphill battle.

xhepera · 1 year ago

Yes, RitornaV, it's an uphill battle that I've been fighting probably since before you were even born. I'm not trying to shift blame and I don't have to justify jack-shit to anyone. My civil rights credentials have been paid literally in blood, sweat and tears for both gay rights and the rights of racial minorities. What part of my laying blame at BOTH doors do you not understand, dear?

pdxprobert · 1 year ago

thank you for your contributions... we lost a large number of the original gay rights activists and their seasoned skills, to AIDS... I came out in 1974... and at age 15 remember reading a tiny little article in my hometown paper about the Stonewall riot... 5 years later I would accept what i was... i lived in Los Angeles in the mid 70s.. a man i dated (it was a may december relationsip) was one of the people who funded the start up of the the los angeles gay and lesbian community center..he was on the original board of directors.. his name was bob holm.. i think sheldon andelson, charlie ulrich and roy ettleman were also part of the original organization.. they were all quite wealthy.. bob and sheldon are dead... I looked up the LA gay and lesbian website a few years ago but didnt see anything about the people who donated their money and time to make it happen... i wonder if there are any compilations of the people who were involved in the early years after Stonewall... I wasnt a gay activist then nor am i now, i prefer politics in general, but i contribute when i feel motivated... you mentioned the mattachine society.. i saw a documentary on Harry Haye (i think that was his name).... things sure have changed since his experience... thanks again for your contributions to the quest for equality...

RitornaVincitor · 11 months ago

Would that you were older and wiser than me!

Jaango · 1 year ago

Dear John Aravosis,

If you wander on down to the web site for the Chicano Veterans Organization, and click onto the Cactus Juice Commentaries, you will find an item titled, "Aravosis 'get's it'" Enjoy.

Hope this helps the 'cause', in particular with Chicanos, and in general, will military vets like myself, in order to bring them over to the side of the Angels and not on the side of the Angles.

Boycottutah · 1 year ago

Well, Obama didn't help us out much. Just days before the election he said on MTV that he was personally against same sex marriage because "God is in the mix". I feel like DJ Obama remixed my rights. The LGBT community worked harder to elect Obama than we did to protect our rights. Obama has thrown us under the bus again by delaying the suspension of DADT.

Obama is a socially conservative religionist.

cowboyneok · 1 year ago

Could any of our "leaders" even "do math?" Who WAS doing the math?

whomod · 1 year ago

Welcome to L.A. You can blame that to the insular nature of westside liberalism. It seems with wealthy liberals as well as with the white gay community in Los Angeles, they seem to believe there is no life worth bothering with east of Western Ave. and the 101 FWY. The westside is an island unto itself. I also blame that attitude for the rather stagnant and stereotypical representation of Latinos in mass popular media. It seems to me that westside liberals also don't know of any Latinos who aren't maids, gardeners, busboys or valets.

David · 1 year ago

The fact the No On 8 Campaign did no outreach to the African American community should shock, well, NO ONE. As a gay white male I cannot remember any gay rights "movement" of recent vintage in which the liberal, white, rich, male elie that runs our "organizations" lifted a finger to outreach to communities of color--Latino, African American or Asian. These guys live in a bubble.

Guest · 11 months ago

Reasons To Be Cheerful, Part 3 · 1 year ago

The No On 8 leaders were unfortunately what Europeans call "salon liberals." Sigh. Also, they indeed live in a bubble: San Francisco and Berkeley do not equate California.