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What exactly can the Democratic leaders do? Who will the Clintons listen to?
They think they ARE the Democratic party leaders.
The Super Delegates should quit stalling and commit.
Hendrik Hertzberg says it well:
.............The whole Clinton marital soap opera, obviously off limits within the Democratic fold, will offer ample material for what Obama calls “distractions.” To take the most obvious example, the former President’s social life since leaving the White House will become, if not “fair game,” big game—and some of these right-wing dirtbags are already hiring bearers and trying on pith helmets for the safari. Is this a “there” where the Democratic Party really wants to go?
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily...
We cannot afford to have this party destroyed and McCain become president. And the clintons cannot be allowed to continue to destroy our nominee because the party lacks a spine. They need to grow one now.
I say that Americablog talks to other sites like Kos and others and start to organize them and the readers to put some heavy pressure on them.
The Republicans are also looking at a serious problem after November.
McCain isn't a theocrat, and he's unlikely to choose a theocrat as a running mate (seeing how he shot down Huckabee).
This means that the theocrats are probably going to sit at home this November, and bemoan the fact that they can't vote for anyone who agrees with them.
They had their man in Bush Jr, but even he didn't provide the goods that they've wanted. So McCain won't provide, and the people who claimed to be ``one of them'' were really just stringing them along.
I've said it before, but I strongly suspect that they will bolt after 2008. They'll form a new party, much like the Progressives around the turn of the century or Wallace's American Independent Party. This party will do nothing and never have a serious chance of electing a president. But it will elect a few representatives. And in doing so, the theocrats will have effectively neutered themselves.
Now, anyone with ant power in the party will see that this is a colossally dumb thing to do, but with the advent of the internet and places like renewamerica.us, the people who have drunk too much Kool-Aid will have just enough power to make this happen.
She must get to know her role, carrying Barrack's water as the junior Senator of New York.
Wish I was right on that.
Unfortunately, too many democrats still have blinders on about the Clintons and refuse to believe fellow democrats warning them.
Hillary's support from white working people? Forget it. McCain will stomp her among white voters.
The Dems strength is with minorities and young people, and Obama stomps Hillary there.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/26/19333/5...
In another post, it's shown that Hillary's "base" isn't a base to win anything, except primaries that include Appalachia.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/26/133...
Fantastic article.
This man ran against the establishment and took a beating from the press before he got into the white house. He also inherited a country on the abyss and followed the worst president in history.
Come the 200th birthday celebration i am sure the new president will be there as he is from Illinois as well and will be following the worst president, just like Lincoln. Only this time, the president will be the coming full circle of what Lincoln began during his presidency. How cool is that.
Oh, and I live in Illinois.
This man ran against the establishment and took a beating from the press before he got into the white house"
Well said. Abraham Lincoln was one of the most successful and respected Republicans of all times (only exceeded by Ronald Reagan). Lincoln's heroism is why we use his image as one of our icons at Log Cabin. Both Parties can share in his heroic legacy.
Riverrat, I think many democrats have had their eyes opened to the Clintons this past year and wonder if the gop was right in the 90s. I voted for Bill in 92 but, not in 96. 3rd party. That was when I began to have serious doubts about the Clintons. After Monica and the pardons and renting of the Lincoln bedroom, I was thrilled to see them leave. I thought they were gone for good and Hillary would stay buried in the senate.
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Bubba did to Paul Tsongas in the '92 primaries what he's trying to do to Obama now. Just the dirtiest, sleaziest bullshit I ever saw. So I could never vote for him....I voted for Perot in 92 and cast a pity vote for Dole in 96 instead.
When the Right Wing went after him during his presidency, I just laughed and thought "Karma's a bitch, ain't it Bubba?"
Sort of forgot about him after Bush came in, because Bush disgusted me even more. But, now, the old feelings are back with a vengeance. Bubba is a dirtbag.
Indeed, Wolf...
;-)
Anyway, HRC should give a spleen-filled farewell to rival Nixon's 1960 "You won't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore" gem...
PS-Very cool wvcat...Obama should take an Inaugural train to DC from Ill... is growing a beard along the way and having a Pinkerton double attending too much to ask???
Something I've been considering lately.
I'm thinking Billary will attempt to assuage black voters by naming Harold Ford as Veep.
They would almost have to name an african american if they steal the election from Obama, and Harold Ford is another DLCer, so thinks alot like them.
What you think?
Clinton will likely run out of money which will effectively end the primaries, look for less and less campaign activity , and the press to begin taking second looks. At a certain point the MSM does not like to become too stupid , the pundits will run out of steam soon, portions of the blog world are behind the curve as well, and everyone is just TIRED of Clinton.
Please login to rate.
BB, I think that's a very good guess for H's VP.
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Thanks, but someone on Kos just told me Harold's only 38 and the legal age for Veep is 40.
Oh well, that's good.
Billary can't try to scam their way into the white house by finding an Obama subsitute.
Charlene Fernandez, the newly-elected first vice chairwoman of the Arizona Democratic Party, announced her support tonight for Mr. Obama
“Senator Barack Obama is strengthening the Democratic Party by bringing in new voters, young and old, into the process,” Ms. Fernandez said in a statement released by the Obama campaign. ” I believe Senator Obama has the best ability to win the White House in November and lead this country forward.”
Ms. Fernandez was Mr. Obama’ s 241st superdelegate endorsement..
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/o...
Surprised?
I am not for she has is a republican deep down inside.
'they' know that a skull&boner needs to be in office
'they' will do anything to make sure that one does
Or you will find yourself labled as one of the following:
1) A Hillbot.
2) A republican
3) A Nazi
4) A neocon
5) A racesist
They love to label those who have the guts to disagree with them.
on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBrrsq6lu7U
They are about to turn an unlosable election into a loss plus a broken party. They are flagrantly pitting the blacks against the whites in a way even John McCain would find embarassing. This is not the way Democrats should behave. Somebody needs to intervene, fast. Barack could win this thing, but not if the Clinton machine continues on its path of destruction.
besides, some of them want her to destroy Obama and elect McCain so he can be in charge when the country is ruined forever so they can blame him and run in 2012 with Hillary.
An earlier thread mentioned her involvement in pushing a controversial pardon. But a cursory review of all of her problems comes down to one thing: she is a Clinton. As such, she has a CLINTON problem.
If she snags the nomination, you may as well turn off your television until election night, because the airwaves leading up to it will be nothing a Hellish rerun: a huge rehash of every real or imagined offense committed by either of them. You'll roll your eyes at the things you remember, and cringe at the things you'd forgotten. And it will work, and John McCain (or his VP) will be President.
Obama would not run third party, and I bet he wouldnt run in 2012. I think this experience proves to a lot of people that the American political system is completely broken and we need a new revolution.
When Bill began his racist tirade in South Carolina about Obama, at first it shocked me, then angered me and finally as it continued it made me revise all of previous support for the man. These two people crave power more obviously than anyone I have seen previously. Sure politicians all crave money power and the status that goes along with the entire deal, but the Clinton's put other folk to shame in their obvious and depraved mounting of a campaign to do "anything".
I used to actually love Bill Clinton and voted for him twice and jokingly said I would do so for a third time, but I am almost ashamed of those previous good feelings about the man. And I have never been a fan for Hillary as President, but liked her for a local Senate seat. If I had not moved out of NYC when I did, I would have joyfully voted FOR her in the Senate.
As I said that was then...
The question now is what to do about the situation. Now if the Democrats didn't have the balls to oppose the GOP on War, Torture, Civil Rights, FISA, Impeachment et al; than how on earth can we expect them to take the bull by the horns NOW?
"The question now is what to do about the situation. Now if the Democrats didn't have the balls to oppose the GOP on War, Torture, Civil Rights, FISA, Impeachment et al; than how on earth can we expect them to take the bull by the horns NOW?"
____________________________________________________________________
That is a very good question.
Do you think a re-vote is the right answer? So much has happened since the FL and MI primaries that I don't think it would be right. I don't know what the answer is but this I know, Hillary has used a lot of negativity that just might be very hard for Obama to overcome in Florida.
Bill Clintoneonie AKA Wild Bill, the sleekmister, et al.
HAS NEVER BEEN ON THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW!
Rush loves to do an imitation of his voice and he dose it quite a lot.
I do hope you listen to his show.
Maybe you will even learn by reverse osmosis.
I have e-mailed him concerning his(Rush's) name being dropped on this blog maybe he will do a whole show in Clintoons voice. I don't think so however .
They think they ARE the Democratic party leaders.
The Clintons ARE the Democrat party leaders. Why do any of you think that they are going to sit down and shut up when they think that they have this nation in there pocket?
Why don't YOU just tell Oboma to shut up and let the experenced candidates tell you what is right and how to do everything.
You still don't get it do you?
There is no way short of somebody putting Hillery down as in for a dirt nap that she is going to stop her run for the white house.
I fully expect her to run as an independent if she dose not win just to shit on Obomas chance so she can try to run vs. McCain in 2012.
There is nothing she has not done for power.
Nothing she will not do for power.
She feels a grater feeling of entitlement than all of the welfare cases in the USA added together.
No place have I ever seen a person with more greed or artifice anyplace in the world.
They should tell her that if she either manages to steal the nomination (the only way she can get it now) or continues to undermine Obama's candidacy that they will be pronounced persona non grata and that black stalking horse candidates will be placed in every election they ever run in again, be it: President, Senator, Governor or Dog Catcher. The Clintons have no political future (or past) without black support.
At that point, Hillary would fold her cards and quietly walk away from the table. Hillary's not an idiot. She knows she's lost this one. What she's now running for is 2012. That means she's trying to ensure that Obama doesn't win the General in Novemeber. It just so happens that her 2012 strategy requires that she look like she still has an 08 strategy.
The African American vote is the most cohesive voting block in the United States. There's no reason that they don't use it. They don't need to play the victim here. That should be Hillary's role.
Check this
http://obeygiant.com
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//...
History will be hard on the Clinton's and the Liberals who ignored their crimes for the sake of power.
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Although many of us have changed our minds about the integrity (or lack thereof) of both Clinton's, in no way does that mean that many of the bogus "supposed" crimes of which they were accused were real. Please, most of us can hold differing opinions on a subject in our heads while chewing gum and walking at the same time; not everything the lunatic right claimed was real then nor now.
Just because you ignored these things at the time, they still happened. At least you found your voice now that a Republican is in office.
As far as throwing the Clintons off the bus, I don't think so. There are plenty of Dems who prefer Senator Clinton. This site leans toward Senator Obama. MyDD leans towards Senator Clinton. It is a tough race and people want their candidate to win. I am sure over at MyDD you will find plenty of praise for Senator Clinton.
President Bush will be remembered by historians as a President who went to war against organized terror and beat the hell out of them and prevented additional attacks to this country. Iraq will be left to John McCain and he will not surrender Iraq to terrorist.
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Oh look, Dick Jones endorses TORTURE. Yes, Dick, this government use to sentence people and send them to prison IF they tortured anyone, as is the case for the Hague. Waterboarding is torture, like it or not and I am quite sure that somewhere down the line, Bush and his cronies will be looked into by the Hague.
The idea that OUR own country tortures people and tries to SPIN away the actual crime is horrific, embarrassing and has taken its toll on our standing within the world view.
Please oh God, Oh God, do not allow a Republican to take the controls again! The damage done to this nation will take years and years of work to PERHAPS be able to get our beloved country back to where it once was.
America's standing in the world? Oh please. Most of the world could give a flying crap and the liberal governments of France and Germany have been replaced by conservative pro-American governments. Our standing in the world is just fine. Really what you are saying is that other liberals throughout the world also think that waterboarding is mean. So what.
Hello again. Please, do you also post over at Huffington Post as Aquarius 2001? If so I just became a fan.
It's unlikely she will "steal" the nomination. She won't do anything dishonest or illegal to get the nomination.
But she will get it.
No, I always post as aquarius2, never felt the need to change identities Hmm, I will have to check that out. I really dislike the posting over at Huff, same at dkos. Love the articles but find it too much of a headache to post.
Oh I really hope you are wrong about her getting the nomination. As far as "stealing" the nomination, I really hate when people say that. You can't "steal" it if it is according to the rules, that is just the way it is. Now I can say IF she gets the nomination I will really dislike the way she went about it but hey we created the Super Delegates and until that is changed nobody can "steal" the nomination.
The mantra of steal the election, discarding, ignoring and thwarting the will of the voters will incesssantly continue because the are true, despit all the bitching, whiiing and moaning coming from the Clinton camp. Word spin will not steal the truth either. Just get used to these words.
I am not surprised a Clinton follower views the truth as disingenuous.
The mantra of "steal" the nomination, "discarding", "ignoring" and "thwarting" the will of the voters will incesssantly continue because they are true, despite all the bitching, whining and moaning coming from the Clinton camp. Word spin will not steal the truth either. Just get used to these words.
If we do not want the Democratic Party to become fractured -- which will not only result in certain defeat in this election, but potentially future elections as well -- then we need to make it absolutely clear in the next few months that the party and the country are more important than either of the two candidates, because that's potentially what's at stake here. We've already had to spend the last seven years dealing with a President and a cadre of his supporters who view the administration as being above the law and their interests as being considerably more important than those of the people and the country as a whole. WE DO NOT NEED ANOTHER LEADER LIKE THAT -- hell, I'm not entirely confident that our country could even *survive* it. This country is in desperate need of change, and there's no question that McCain will not provide it. Unfortunately, it seems possible that Clinton won't either -- odds are that she won't even get the chance at this stage, because it seems likely that she'd lose the election to McCain even in a fair fight (since we can't entirely rule out the "wild card" of electronic voting machines without paper trails, and especially not after the latest shenanigans from the Republicans). If we want to have a prayer of winning the election in November and seeing change in this country, it's absolutely vital that the majority of Democrats be willing to support the nominee regardless of the outcome. Of course, it would be preferable if Clinton were to withdraw from the process now -- but we all know that this isn't going to happen, and it unfortunately still doesn't rule out the possibility that a wrench has already been thrown into the works.
If she gets the nomination, it will be stealing it based on specious arguments about his character, rather than going by the rules or honoring the will of the people. If that happens, and I am increasingly seeing how it could happen, the party changes forever. Frankly, I don't want to be a member of a DLC dominated party, where rules and fairness mean nothing. It is too much like the GOP.
OMG in heaven. Perhaps I should have been more clear but I thought is was understood that I meant Iraq, Bush lied to take this country to war in Iraq. I have no problems with his going to Afghanistan but Iraq is way off base to say it was because we were attacked in New York!!!! Further, if Bush was so adamant about wiping out terrorism where the hell did Ben Ladin go, you do remember who he is don't you?
And this comment from you just boggles my mind "Nobody has been tortured. Having a little watter poured over your face for 2 or 3 minutes is not torture. It's uncomfortable as hell, but it's not torture." Obviously you have not read the reports on torture.
I often wondered who the 27%--30% people were that consistently give Bush positive ratings and here you are. I don't feel like looking up the recent findings of a group of leading historians that said the Bush president will probably be looked at in future years as one of the worst in the history of the USA. I am guessing you didn't read that?
They must to keep their certainty accuse
All that are different of a base intent;
Pull down established honour; hawk for news
Whatever their loose phantasy invent
And murmur it with bated breath, as though
The abounding gutter had been Helicon
Or calumny a song. How can they know
Truth flourishes where the student's lamp has shone,
And there alone, that have no solitude?
So the crowd come they care not what may come.
They have loud music, hope every day renewed
And heartier loves; that lamp is from the tomb.
You're stuck on what you think an uneducated class of what a largely uneducated class of White Americans will do. These are different times, and if America is willing to continue down a path of destruction--rather than vote for a qualified man candidate of color--then it deserves the destruction just up ahead.
Dick Jones got his in the movie Robocop, which appears to be more prophetic than fantastic every time it shows up on television. Destroying brand America to save it doesn't work, and feeding the amoral philosophical shift this country has taken will only accelerate the feedback loop that brings us as a nation into being the caricatured monster the Soviets propagandized us as. Philistines too lazy to commit our own genocides.
"Senator McCain's not here," Bush said of GOP nominee-in-waiting John McCain. "He probably wanted to distance himself from me a little bit. You know, he's not alone. Jenna's moving out too."
Bush then referred to scandals that have dogged the campaigns of the two remaining Democratic candidates, Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama, in explaining their absence: "Hillary Clinton couldn't get in because of sniper fire and Senator Obama's at church."