DISQUS

AMERICAblog: NYT: We vigorously debunked the Swift Boaters in 2004. (Sure you did)

  • bluestockton · 1 year ago
    Whether or not John McCain was a heroic POW is relevant only if you expect that sometime in the next four to eight years, terrorists will storm the White House and hold the president hostage. Wesley Clark was 100% right: being a POW made McCain an expert only in being a POW.
  • ZennButtKicker (tlhwraith) · 1 year ago
    It amazes me that "the media" thinks its objective enough to critique "the media". For my next performance review at work, I think I'll just tell my boss to just accept my self appraisal and not even worry about filling out his end of it. I'm sure I'll be completely impartial when critiquing myself too.

    As an aside, I wonder if people think they would be singing a different toon if Bush had high approval ratings? I wonder if the song would be something like "thank God those swiftboaters got rid of that Kerry guy so we could have more of the Bush years". Revisionist history is always interesting to read.
  • ClintonHater · 1 year ago
    Awful just awful.

    And lets remember that it was NYT's reporter Judith Miller who lied about Iraq to get us into war. The NYT has lost credibility with me a long time ago.
  • Rob Mule · 1 year ago
    The MSM (particularly the grimed and gray lady) remind me of the 50s tramps in old Perry Mason episodes...Indignant, uncaring and presumptious until Perry shows their guilt or complicity.
    Pay no attention to the corps behind the curtain...
  • BorninUSA · 1 year ago
    Why anyone believes anything Andrea Greenspan or Bob (Really!!) Schieffer have to say is a mystery to me. They are both older than dirt and should have quit accepting money for their services a long time ago. They are a couple of has-beens who work for Bush/Cheney. Bush/Cheney will soon join their club of has-beens. Ms Greenspan has the same wicked smirk all the time. Don't think her facial muscles will move any more. One too many stretch?
  • Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas · 1 year ago
    This kind of shit from the New York Times is terribly sad. The NYT was once a great newspaper. Well written, well balanced (slightly left), thorough. With an article like this, however, it is clear the NYT is no longer even mediocre. And it is certainly now irrelevant. I cancelled my seven day subscription about two years ago and wrote them a scathing letter as to why. I never heard a word from them. Corporate America only cares about you when you are submitting your credit card number. This is a very sad article.
  • Õ¿Õ · 1 year ago
    Are we ever going to be rid of the yuppies and their constant squabbling. The Greatest Squabbling Generation. Gah damn I'm sick of them. They can't all turn into worm dirt fast enough for me.
  • Bush_Bites · 1 year ago
    Not only do they help further conspiracies against Democrats, but they try to find conspiracies against Repubs where they don't exist.

    Did you notice Mrs. Greenspan implying that John was part of a conspiracy to question McCain's credentials?

    http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/07/02/draft-...

    The press is so much in the Repub pocket that they figure it must be some kind of conspiracy if people start asking about whether McCain's war time bondage qualifies as presidential experience.
  • Õ¿Õ · 1 year ago
    This country is in ruin now it wont recover and it, "he said, she said." We need to figure a way out of this if it's possible but up comes the Swift Boat crap and Kerry's medal and flag pins. Gah damn I can't take it anymore. Everywhere I turn, a fucking grey headed yuppies either squabbling or driving an SUV on their haunches. Fuck you all.
  • scottinsf · 1 year ago
    The NY Times lost all credibility for it's role in the illegal invasion of Iraq. I hope they go bankrupt and that the owners, editors and writers directly involved in that eventually face war crimes tribunals. Seriously.
  • tofubo · 1 year ago
    this is the other half of the campaign-finance debate (1st half, where the money comes from)

    2nd half, where does the money go, in part, the meadea (radio, teevee, print)

    john, you and others, have recounted countless times when the meadea has failed, especially from 2000 to now

    why should they be supported in any way ?? have they acknowledged their complicity ?? when we ask if the fourth estate has become a fifth column, do they understand why ?? have they changed the way they do the news (stenography is NOT journalism) ??

    is the dabate about character or policy ?? have they completely ignored important issues and stories over and over and given us fiflth, gossip, inuendo, and missing white women to the detriment of informing the general electorate in a appropriate fashion ??

    why should we (as campaign supporters) give money to people running for office, for them to give money (as paid advertisements) to the institutions that have repeatedly failed us, time and time again ??
  • Õ¿Õ · 1 year ago
    Fundamentally, it's the bush voters who "worked the refs" by going batshit any time a discouraging word was heard about bush that made them afraid to report honestly, along with being a corporate entity. These same bush voters who now act like it was none of them when it comes to bush. Nah, it's reaping back on them, and unfortunately us. Unless they atone, there wont be any karmic rescue and the likelihood of atonement is nill from them. So things will continue to worsen and worsen and worsen.

    Your words are hollow. We appreciate them, each other but they wont amount to anything to change the current trajectery.
  • Õ¿Õ · 1 year ago
    The reason this country is so fucked up is because of yuppies. Look at everyone in office right now, all yuppies. 99.99%, all pampered their entire life, never experienced a split second of economic uncertainty, worthless yuppies.
  • scottinsf · 1 year ago
    GG, would you please shut up and quit blaming everything on "yuppies". That is a ridiculous label anyway. Young urban professionals. What the hell makes you think todays young urban professionals have lived a pampered life or have never experienced any economic uncertainty? I could be considered a yuppie by some and my expertise is hardly worthless. In fact I would say my profession is downright essential to our society (I work in a very specialized area of healthcare). I don't know what kind of office you're in but maybe you need to get into a different field if you feel the way you do. Edit: Oh, I misread you and thought I saw "everyone in my office". Sorry. The rest still stands.
  • Bush_Bites · 1 year ago
    Funny.

    If you looked around my office, you'd say "It's the salesmen who ruined this country."

    (You might be right, too. Most of them seem to have voted for Bush.)
  • mangoes · 1 year ago
    AND, NOBODY mentioned that that O'Neill punk was rolled right out from under the rock of the Nixon administration. He was a republican patsy then and still a republican patsy in '04. This guy's entire purpose in life was to destroy John Kerry. He began in 1971 with a debate against Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War on the Dick Cavette show and picked up right where he left off 30 years later. Google it.

    The history between these two was deep and heated and yet, nobody even mentioned it. Liberal media????? how so????
  • Õ¿Õ · 1 year ago
    Busboy is a yuppie.
  • KerrynowCampau · 1 year ago
    I was high and still it is no surprise. The MSM quit reporting reality a loooong time ago.
  • dad · 1 year ago
    pile of crap
  • kevinbgoode · 1 year ago
    The press was trapped and pretended that it was trying to be "balanced" in reporting deliberate fabrications as simply another version of truth. The embarassment to the profession is that it became very clear that the media as no longer capable of understanding the difference between fact and fiction - and it continues to try to tell itself that if they treat each lie as just as valid as truth (despite factual verifcation) they are address all the possible "realities" which exist in ideological terms. It is a travesty, a professional embarassment, and evidence that the media does anything possible to make their jobs easier - report any rumor, fabrication, fantasy as "controversial" even though it doesn't take much legwork to find the truth.

    It is the same delusion that many media professionals use to explain away their eroding credibility with the general public. After all, they reason, if both the Left and the Right whine about the tone of coverage, the press MUST be doing something correctly. . .even if they think what is "correct" is calling spin "fact" and fabrications "controversy." I think this is perhaps where the Right has done the best in their drive to turn America into a fascist state. Erode the public confidence in the media, removing them from the position of being watchdogs of the government for the public. Degrade the credibility even more by only covering press releases as "fact" and "controversy" without any examination of character. Just look at the television - they can regularly haul out clowns like Focus on the Family and the "Family" Research Council as spokesmodels of some factually-based worldview, ignoring that often these organizations create that worldview by intentional deception. The media gives stories published by the soldiers of Rev. Moon credibility just because they look like journalistic pieces - even if every other paragraph is so laced with partisan rhetoric and innuendo that no thinking person would believe such trash. Reporters from the AP and many other news organizations have little or no training in developing critical thinking skills, few ethical standards beyond keeping their own job and building their own career, and hardly understand concepts about their own communication with self - let alone how other people communicate.
  • Donna_Z · 1 year ago
    So as the entire media, including Mrs. Greenspan, were chastising Wes Clark for saying being a fighter pilot wasn't a requirement for the Oval Office, the Swiftboaters were on a conference call literally questioning his military service. The media of course missed that and continues to this day (see Howie Kurtz) tsk, tsk, because Clark dared to tell the truth.

    Okay. Got. It.
  • Indigo · 1 year ago
    I'm curious to understand why the New York Times needs to rewrite the history of its reporting during the 2004 campaign. They did not debunk the Swiftboaters at the time but now they want to be associated with debunking the Swiftboaters. What brought that on?
  • jr · 1 year ago
    how many d00ds are in coffins and wearing new limbs because of the Millerites at the Times
  • vwcat · 1 year ago
    The media debunked the swiftboats just as hard they debunk the weekly Does Obama have a problem with (insert Group)? In other words, the NYTimes jumped on the same bandwagon as the rest of the media.
    And this summers media bandwagon is the Does Obama have a problem with...
    Notice how everyweek the media is screaming dramatically that Obama has a problem with a new group. One week it's women, then the next it's working class.
    Some people I talked to Sunday I told it would be the netroots this week and called it.
    I am trying to guess what next weeks group will be.
    Maybe fireworks junkies.
    anyway, it is the replacement for the media for the 04 swiftboats -which was just one group.
  • lark83 · 1 year ago
    A very interesting piece by John. The Swiftboaters were obviously liars of the first order, yet the media all seemed to undereport the proof of their lies. Fox news behaved very predictably, but I have never understood why the rest of the journalism community was so timid about reporting the truth. I blame Kerry himself a little bit, because he himself should have led the charge against these guys. For his own personal reasons, he failed to say anything until it was mostly too late. A bunch of liars got away with changing the election.
  • Bubbles · 1 year ago
    By definition, swift boating doesn't work unless the media gets on board and spreads the lie.

    As evidence, look at the 'reverse-swiftboating' done by McCain this past week over Clark's statement. Clark never disparaged McCain, but McCain claimed he did, and every media outlet, many over and over, claimed Clark did.

    You know, if a swiftboating occurs in the middle of the woods, and nobody knows about it, then it isn't a swiftboating.

    While I was sitting here, I just lied out loud saying Obama is an ex-KKK klansman (until someone pulled the sheet of his head). No body heard it, nobody reported it, so no swiftboating occurred.

    The country is going down the tubes, and the media is guilty for aiding and abetting that crime.