All blacks that I know personally feel that R v W was a decision designed to limit the number of black births in the USA. How many abortion activists do you know who are black?
Crickets?
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
Busboy, First off thankfully, all of the "blacks that I [you] know" are a limited lot and I find it odd that you, of all people, would dare speak for all African Americans in this country, much less in how they view this particular LAW.
Secondly, Roe v Wade was HARDLY enacted to limit African American births, but designed to give women and men a choice in their personal affairs while granting them equal civil rights.
Your take on the issue of choice is astoundingly ignorant and just plain biased! I'm not sure if you are just trying to goad people into attacking you for the heck of it, OR if you actually do believe your own swill.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
He prefers to be called "Soul Man."
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
Fay Wattleton, the first African-American president of Planned Parenthood. But if we're going to play that game, how many Asian women leaders of the pro-choice movement do you know? Crickets. How many leaders of the pro-choice movement, period, can you name? 3? I mean, it's not like we're dealing with a large universe of people who most of us can name.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
Hey, I'll take your word for Fay. Never heard of her. I was speaking from personal experience as per my comment. I still say that McCain is more liberal; especially when it comes to gay rights and abortion rights than Obama is. Obama is selling the progressives a load of BS. He is still his "spiritual leader's"; Rev Wright's nephew...
shanobama
· 1 year ago
McCain LIBERAL on abortion rights?
Surely you jest Busboy. He has the most pro-life record his 26 years in Arizona, which used to be the most red western state. McCain has stated over and over he would like to overturn Roe v Wade. I take the guy at his word, obviously. And his voting record.
please. This outs you as a spy, you know. Better go collect your McCain bonus points or whateveh' the hell they call those 'scores' at McCain't . com.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
Made my day! Spy for McCain?? Forget it....
blackwolf
· 1 year ago
John, I can't put my finger on it, but something has changed with Obama! I'm getting an uneasy feeling, and I've supported this guy from the start. What is it?
blackwolf
· 1 year ago
Let me see if I can hone in on my own question: Three things: Roe Vs. Wade, FISA, and his latest gaffe on not setting a definite troop withdrawal time schedule. Something here has got me worried.
Hangtown Danile
· 1 year ago
Big Love Oboma has the vote now. So he no longer has to get you on board. Now he has to try to get the vote of the middle ground. Not that he will do anything he sais he is going to do. He is just another B.S. artist same as it ever was. I said this was going to happen and I have not been let down by this man. Life is so much easer when you just expect the worse out of everybody. It is hard to be let down by people being themselfs...
blackwolf
· 1 year ago
Bingo! Here's the deal Hangtown: I'm aware (absolutely aware) that the man is all about politics. Same shi*'s being thrown at us---Obama is just a different shovel.
It'a all about quantum physics! I'm just a single light particle, but I move and think like the entire wave of light. Whatever I'm thinking and feelin' at any given time--is what everyone else is thinking.
Big love Obama made a mistake by not hookin' up with public funding. It worked because everyone believed he was the "man" of change. I haven't made a donation, and don't intend to. That $25 bucks a week is now a one-hour jazz violin lesson 4-times a month.
You hit the nail on the head! McCain is no let down, because you know he's a "dick head". Always has been and always will be. Obama, on the other hand, just pissed me off-- which means he's pissed millions of folks off. "Back to the quantum physics theory again."
Busboy
· 1 year ago
BRB....
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
I "get it" that Obama is trying to move toward the "center" (although it is more like hard RIGHT) during the General, BUT this is going far too far for me. If Obama doesn't REFINE what he has said on the issue of Choice and remains where it appears he is; I will absolutely rethink my vote for him.
It doesn't take ONE issue, nor two, but push me further on the issue of Choice and you have one less vote from moi.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
Obama knows that you have no choice than to vote for him. So, he'll try to get to the right of center and freeze McCain out. Only prob is that some of the senators and house members may hold his feet to the fire on his political promises...
Who wants to start a family when they will inherit a world of few high-paying jobs, high energy prices and runaway global warming?
Busboy
· 1 year ago
Catholics, Mormons and Muslims.
Hangtown Danile
· 1 year ago
I am mortified that I may only be able to have two babies. I wish that we could have more!
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
One word: ADOPT.
Hangtown Danile
· 1 year ago
LDS family services may be needed. Looking at the current situation, many things are going to happen first and "adopt" may more likely mean adapt. My grief councilor tells me I need to adapt to the changes that are happening. I get stuck in anger, and depression. These go part and partial with denial. Everything but acceptance. That is still years off.
paulbot5
· 1 year ago
I support an abortion ban on late term babies
judybrowni
· 1 year ago
Until, like all "pro-'life" hypocrites something happens to you or yours that necessitates one: a fetal abnormality, which endangers the mother's health or fertility (or both), and would produce a baby that would live only briefly outside the womb, or a fetus that dies early in the womb, where it would be an extreme cruelty either mentally or physically (or both) to force the mother to carry to term a dead baby.
According to a nurse who has worked on such cases, those are the vast majority of late-term abortions (something like 98 percent.)
But have it your way for you and yours, if you like. Nothing will stop you from inflicting bodily injury on yourself if you're foolish enough to reject your doctor's best advice, although civil law might prevent you from trying to force either of those options on women in your family and acquiantance, unless you're able to bully them sufficiently to agree.
However, the above isn't likely, is it? Yours (or your wife's, daughter's, etc.'s) late-term abortion will miraculously be the only moral late-term abortion to your new way of thinking, and you'll opt for the more medically-safe procedure, like self-serving the hypocrite that you are.
judybrowni
· 1 year ago
More of the well-document, hypocrisy of "pro-life" abortions:
"We have anti-choice women in for abortions all the time. Many of them are just naive and ignorant until they find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy. Many of them are not malicious. They just haven't given it the proper amount of thought until it completely affects them. They can be judgmental about their friends, family, and other women. Then suddenly they become pregnant. Suddenly they see the truth. That it should only be their own choice. Unfortunately, many also think that somehow they are different than everyone else and they deserve to have an abortion, while no one else does." (Physician, Washington State)
Although few studies have been made of this phenomenon, a study done in 1981 (1) found that 24% of women who had abortions considered the procedure morally wrong, and 7% of women who'd had abortions disagreed with the statement, "Any woman who wants an abortion should be permitted to obtain it legally." A 1994/95 survey (2,3) of nearly 10,000 abortion patients showed 18% of women having abortions are born-again or Evangelical Christians. Many of these women are likely anti-choice. The survey also showed that Catholic women have an abortion rate 29% higher than Protestant women. A Planned Parenthood handbook on abortion notes that nearly half of all abortions are for women who describe themselves as born-again Christian, Evangelical Christian, or Catholic. (4)
According to a 1987 article, Abortion Clinics' Toughest Cases,(5) "Physicians and clinics frequently terminate pregnancies for women who believe abortion is 'murder' and 'a sin' but who are not anti-abortion activists. Demonstrators, organizers, and leaders in the [anti-abortion] movement are seen less frequently, ranging from perhaps once or twice a month to a few times in the course of a professional career." The article contained the following anecdotes:
An administrator at a Missouri clinic recalled a woman blurting out in the recovery room, "It should be illegal." The other women's mouths fell open, said the administrator. "They couldn't believe it."
The medical director of an Indianapolis clinic recalled one prospective patient who phoned to ask whether the clinic had a back door. He said no. How, she asked, could she get inside without being seen by fellow picketers outside? Pointing out that two orthopedists practiced with him, the doctor told the woman "she could limp and say she was coming to see the orthopods."
The medical director at a Dallas abortion clinic told this story: A white woman from an affluent north Dallas neighborhood brought her black maid in for an abortion and paid for it. While the maid was in a counseling session, a commotion was heard in the waiting room outside. The maid's employer was handing out anti-abortion leaflets to other women waiting for abortions.
From a clinic director in a mid-western state: "One of the most remarkable cases was a woman who came [from another part of the state] and said she was the Right-to-Life president in her county. 'But,' she said, she 'had become pregnant and had to have an abortion.'"
From a counselor in Virginia: "[The patient] was disturbed and upset and insisted she couldn't carry the pregnancy to term. She opposed abortion -- and in fact had picketed this very clinic -- [but] felt the abortion was something she had to do."
judybrowni
· 1 year ago
You may wonder how I can predict, a pro-life hypocrisy about getting abortion, when the issue hits home, but it's a phenomena all-to-familiar to abortion providers.
"In the spring of 2000, I collected the following anecdotes directly from abortion doctors and other clinic staff in North America, Australia, and Europe. The stories are presented in the providers' own words, with minor editing for grammar, clarity, and brevity. Names have been omitted to protect privacy.
"I have done several abortions on women who have regularly picketed my clinics, including a 16 year old schoolgirl who came back to picket the day after her abortion, about three years ago. During her whole stay at the clinic, we felt that she was not quite right, but there were no real warning bells. She insisted that the abortion was her idea and assured us that all was OK. She went through the procedure very smoothly and was discharged with no problems. A quite routine operation. Next morning she was with her mother and several school mates in front of the clinic with the usual anti posters and chants. It appears that she got the abortion she needed and still displayed the appropriate anti views expected of her by her parents, teachers, and peers." (Physician, Australia)
I've had several cases over the years in which the anti-abortion patient had rationalized in one way or another that her case was the only exception, but the one that really made an impression was the college senior who was the president of her campus Right-to-Life organization, meaning that she had worked very hard in that organization for several years. As I was completing her procedure, I asked what she planned to do about her high office in the RTL organization. Her response was a wide-eyed, 'You're not going to tell them, are you!?' When assured that I was not, she breathed a sigh of relief, explaining how important that position was to her and how she wouldn't want this to interfere with it." (Physician, Texas)
uh oh john will banish us for cruising on here!!!!!!
AngelaChanning
· 1 year ago
I also understand Obama is trying to move to the center and establish that he is a Christian with all those rumors of being Muslim. Short of me finding out that he was caught on video by Chris Hanson on Dateline NBC, I will still vote for him. However, my concern is this new announcement du jour. I think he is going a bit too fast and he could end up alienating a lot of people. As much as he likes nuance, the corporate media and average citizen do not go for it. If Obama blows this and then we have Hillary doing the I Told You So Dance, I think I might become a recluse for 4 years. (Can't afford to move! LOL) Thank you for listening.
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
I will be furious if he blows it. Its why I supported John Edwards. For the life of me I don't know why our party always picks the "long shot" instead of someone that would appeal to middle of the road voters???
mirth
· 1 year ago
I'm dumbfounded.
The word "betrayed" now comes to mind when I think about the candidate I once so enthusiastically supported.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
Mirth, Obama is just in the "positioning phase" like McWeasel is. We are now looking at bones made of jelly. I'm sure they'll return to their roots after the election.
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
Oh, yes, I'm sure. /sarcasm
I hope you're right- I'm sure tired of this plutoctatic, theocratic paradise we're living in now. Unfortunately, Obama's only concrete positions just reaffirm it.
hardeknox
· 1 year ago
This is the convoluted lawyer talk that Hillary was accused of spouting. People hate it. He needs to stop this stuff and KISS. He's taking his base for granted. He has to rely on them for funding, as he's given up Fed bucks. Both he and Hillary have been accused of being too clever by half. This proves it.
jr
· 1 year ago
the Jim Wallis strategy is in effect
Busboy
· 1 year ago
I know this sounds crazy, but there is some stuff circulating that, if true, could make Hillary the nominee. It has to do with Obama's support of his cousin in Kenya who wanted to initiate "Sharia Law". I'm not going to post it because I kinda like being allowed on this blog.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
How do you reconcile Sharia Law and the 4th Amendment?
Busboy
· 1 year ago
tb, you're the lawyer...
tbhull
· 1 year ago
I did not study Sharia.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
Tsk,tsk; you may have to be sent to a "re-education camp"
shanobama
· 1 year ago
Better check snopes.com on that email about Obamas cousin.
I got it too, Busboy, from my RW operatives. It is FALSE, buddy.
It is a sin to bear false witness you know. A Xtian without works, go and sin no more.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
Notice that I didn't give links. Just because there are a dozen Google references doesn't make something true. Google and Wikipedia are totally compromised.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
You just DID GIVE A LINK to that tripe above! So you are not only spreading false rumors, but you are linking to them as well. I am really disappointed in you.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
Rumor mongering is NOT a good trait Busboy. It's a shame you've gone to this extent in order to foster animus against Obama, but it does appears to be your tactic of choice.
Busboy
· 1 year ago
How can you call it rumor mongering when it's up on Google for the whole world to see? I didn't post links because I don't have independent confirmation of the veracity of Google or wikipedia. However, since you are calling me out; Please Google "Obama and Odinga" and see what you get. Here's an example, that if true will chill you to the bone. You're worried about RvW? That may be your least concern. And, BTW, I think McCain is a weasel and a hypocrite:
Busboy, Just because you see something on the "internets", does not necessarily mean it is true. I thought you knew that basic fact about online life?
The best thing to do these days, with all of the rumor mongering going on, is to check out the story/rumor in http://www.snopes.com . They usually are up on all of the latest tripe being passed around, especially during these very BUSY days of pre-election day bologna. There are lots of such sties, but Snopes and one other site (which I can't remember the name of) are the most reliable in bashing rumors of this type BEFORE you go around spreading them as fact.
You can also check out: http://www.factcheck.org/ which is a "supposedly" non partisan site that is up on all things political. They aren't quite the same as debunking urban legends, but they are an accurate site that will correct any wrong assumptions on anything of a political nature.
So PLEASE, check out your rumors BEFORE spreading them around, OK? .
crowdy
· 1 year ago
Obama's outrageous anti-woman comments, re. the right to choose, are a slap in the face for ardent supporters such as myself, who have defended him in the face of right-wing onslaughts; have contributed to his campaign again and again; have caucused for him. Unbelievable. I am shocked and angry. How can he so callously assume he knows better than a woman what her needs are?
shanobama
· 1 year ago
Yes, I agree the answer should be a privacy issue between women and their doctors.
Late term abortion is awful, but some will never survive after birth either.
Thats why any out right ban is difficult and complicated. Look at all the DU birth defects in Iraq, poisoned beyond any kind of life after birth.
vwcat
· 1 year ago
ABC, like the AP, has a very strong anti Obama stand and has been trashing him for a long time. I don't watch ABC but, heard this morning was a joke in their attempt to promote the usual gop/McSprinkles talking points and tell the voters that Obama is a flipper who cannot be trusted and has abandoned every democratic issue because he is a cynical pol out to use everyone in his grab for power. Personally, I am more than fed up and think we need to push back hard. We cannot let them do to Obama what they did to Gore and Kerry and trash this man's reputation and candidacy. It's time we start to fight them back. And stop the press generated faux story that Obama has abandoned his policies and has moved on the issues. Please read this and see what is going on: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-creamer/pr...
vwcat
· 1 year ago
Reading these posts I am stunned how easily manipulated by the media spin and the rightwing talking points you guys are. YOu are falling for what the Rove/McSprinkles campaign is doing by having the media (McSprinkles' base) convince you of something that is not there. They are playing you and trying to divide you and have the democrats turn against Obama. And you guys are falling for it so easily. Google or youtube any issue of Obama's and you can see he is pretty consistent with his policy. he has not moved but, the media is trying to convince you he has. Wake up people. Don't you see that they are playing the same games as in 2000 and 2004.
blackwolf
· 1 year ago
Ok, I'll buy the game bit! What Obama has to do--is get it right on the first statement. People are going to get tired of him coming from behind to tell them what he "meant" by something. He's going to have to lay out his agenda far better.
shanobama
· 1 year ago
(Inartful means talking to the religious right) uuhhmmm 40% ? in the south, no less.......
mirth
· 1 year ago
The majority of the people who comment on these threads are intelligent and informed and we recognize media manipulation.
In the last hour I have read several sources of Obama's remarks re: abortion restrictions after 22 weeks, and in this singular instance I agree with you - the ABC reporting linked here is media manipulation.
Obama says:
"My only point is that in an area like partial birth abortion having a mental, having a health exception can be defined rigorously," Obama continued.
"It can be defined through physical health. It can be defined by serious clinical mental health diseases. It is not just a matter of feeling blue. I don't think that's how pro-choice folks have interpreted it. I don't think that's how the courts have interpreted it and I think that's important to emphasize and understand."
Most supporters of a woman's right to make her own reproduction choices agree that besides guaranteeing this right, the government has no other role to play. But in today's reality and in general principle, Obama is simply making a point clearer about what currently is and is not legal and I don't have much of a problem with his statement.
However, his recent statements regards FISA and continuing "faith-based" Fed $ and even his remarks about "redefining" his Iraq withdrawal stance can only be interpreted as swings to the right away from his base and while Obama's statements are sure to get twisted in the reporting, facts are facts and his words are his words.
KarenMrsLloydRichards
· 1 year ago
Is it just me, Americablog Kidz, or is Obama getting kinda, well, boring?
mirth
· 1 year ago
LOL I dunno if boring is the word, but he's not the red-hot spark he was. Scattered? Scary? Heartbreaking?
Busboy
· 1 year ago
Obama has never stated a concrete "tenet" of his campaign. Neither has McCain. When they attempt to do so; they are met with derision because they are contradicting previous positions. It's a dual "clown act".
Busboy
· 1 year ago
Maybe I'll be brighter tomorrow. Adios.......
chowderSF
· 1 year ago
Let's face it, whoever is the next president gets to choose a few SCOTUS judges. It is the future supreme court that will make many, many decisions that will shape our nation in the near future and beyond. While I find Obama's latest statement about abortion not of my views, I still know that we need him as president come January. Am I a little more worried about where Obama is heading with regards to the Center? Sure, but the other choice isn't a choice. So I am looking forward to receiving my Absentee Voter Ballot in the mail come October, and I will have it filled out in minutes. ;)
lark83
· 1 year ago
I think some of you folks are over-reacting. Obama is still Obama, and he will be just fine.
Joe Perez
· 1 year ago
That ABC News article is the best I've read on this complex subject, so thanks for the link, John.
Leaving aside the politics of the issue and how it feeds into the "move to the center" narrative, I just want to take a moment to say that in my eyes Obama seems to have articulated exactly the right position on abortion legality. Now if only he would go a bit further and spell out how he wants to make the reduction of abortions a priority of his administration, as the pro-Obama pro-lifers want, then maybe he could make some huge electoral gains by getting more conservative Catholics and evangelicals on board.
It's important to remember that there are millions, MILLIONS, of religious voters out there who would like to vote Democratic, but will not pull the lever for a (D) candidate because they are strongly pro-life on the abortion issue. Many of these religious voters are in swing states like Ohio and Pennsylvania. Obama can win over some of these voters w/o compromising his basic pro-choice position and commitment to appointing the right kind of Supreme Court justices, and this issue could make or break the entire campaign.
chandler_in_lasvegas
· 1 year ago
♦ Taking into consideration the argument and the parsing, aside from the subject, and Obama has morphed into Hillary. Same, same, same.
Shannon
· 1 year ago
I will not be treated like Obama's whore..........he can not use me to get him elected then discard me because he got what he wanted and no longer needs me................thank God that Ralph Nader is now going to be on the ballot in Hawaii because now I have someone I can vote for........................
Rab
· 1 year ago
Nice try, Nader sucks and it would mean that McCrazy gets elected, quit talking like a repug.
Shannon
· 1 year ago
I have really had it with the "Centrists"...they are the problem in Congress. the "Blue Dog" Democrats are just Republican "posers".........no more luke warm middle of the roaders for me, I will not vote for Obama, and I do not see myself as helping McCain by voting for Nader, we gave the Democrats everything they wanted in support in 2006 and the Blue Dogs keep voting with Bu$hCo........Obama is a "Blue Dog"..........I will follow my true feelings this time and vote in good consciene knowing I did not help elect another poser to the office...........iof Obama wants to eliminate the 4th Amendment what is the difference between him and McCain this is a good example of what we are in for, I am glad he showed his true colors so I can say I told you guys so when he screws us all over.
DavidinChelseaMA
· 1 year ago
Sure, Shannon. Real smart move.
Rather than get who I assume you would consider the lesser of two evils, you want to cast a vote that will help to make the WORSE of two evils be able to come to power and put more horrible justices up for Supreme Court nomination. You know full well that Nader will NEVER, EVER be elected president, so don't you DARE waste your vote, as it will simply put McCain into office.
Ever hear the expression: "Don't bite your nose off to spite your face?"
Shannon
· 1 year ago
Sorry if Obama will not protect the 4th Amendment, he is just a poser and I refuse to keep supporting the pretenders which he is obviously one.............if they lose AGAIN it will be because he no longer supports the people, he needs to learn that the hard way apparently and the Democrats too, by the way, I am not the only one who feels this way...........I have heard from a bunch of people on my email list that they will not support him now either..............Oh, that's right they don't need our votes, they will have the Evangelicals to take our place............
bernarda
· 1 year ago
Obama also is in favor of the death penalty for child rapists, in other words, people who have not killed other people. I hope you are happy with him.
JennieB
· 1 year ago
Obama is absolutely right. Late-term abortions are disgusting and should only be done in very extreme circumstances where the health of the mother is at risk. And by health, I don't mean "depression or anxiety." If a woman wants an abortion, she needs to make that decision within the first 16 weeks of her pregancy. Stupity and indecision is not a good excuse for this hideous procedure.
All Comments
Crickets?
First off thankfully, all of the "blacks that I [you] know" are a limited lot and I find it odd that you, of all people, would dare speak for all African Americans in this country, much less in how they view this particular LAW.
Secondly, Roe v Wade was HARDLY enacted to limit African American births, but designed to give women and men a choice in their personal affairs while granting them equal civil rights.
Your take on the issue of choice is astoundingly ignorant and just plain biased! I'm not sure if you are just trying to goad people into attacking you for the heck of it, OR if you actually do believe your own swill.
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
Surely you jest Busboy. He has the most pro-life record his 26 years in Arizona, which used to be the most red western state.
McCain has stated over and over he would like to overturn Roe v Wade.
I take the guy at his word, obviously. And his voting record.
please. This outs you as a spy, you know.
Better go collect your McCain bonus points or whateveh' the hell they call those 'scores' at McCain't . com.
on not setting a definite troop withdrawal time schedule. Something here has got me worried.
Now he has to try to get the vote of the middle ground.
Not that he will do anything he sais he is going to do.
He is just another B.S. artist same as it ever was.
I said this was going to happen and I have not been let down by this man.
Life is so much easer when you just expect the worse out of everybody.
It is hard to be let down by people being themselfs...
politics. Same shi*'s being thrown at us---Obama is just a different shovel.
It'a all about quantum physics! I'm just a single light particle, but I move and think like
the entire wave of light. Whatever I'm thinking and feelin' at any given time--is what
everyone else is thinking.
Big love Obama made a mistake by not hookin' up with public funding. It worked because
everyone believed he was the "man" of change. I haven't made a donation, and don't
intend to. That $25 bucks a week is now a one-hour jazz violin lesson 4-times a month.
You hit the nail on the head! McCain is no let down, because you know he's a "dick head".
Always has been and always will be. Obama, on the other hand, just pissed me off--
which means he's pissed millions of folks off. "Back to the quantum physics theory
again."
It doesn't take ONE issue, nor two, but push me further on the issue of Choice and you have one less vote from moi.
So, for your OT viewing pleasure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aEURwsrUSQ
I wish that we could have more!
My grief councilor tells me I need to adapt to the changes that are happening. I get stuck in anger, and depression. These go part and partial with denial. Everything but acceptance. That is still years off.
According to a nurse who has worked on such cases, those are the vast majority of late-term abortions (something like 98 percent.)
But have it your way for you and yours, if you like. Nothing will stop you from inflicting bodily injury on yourself if you're foolish enough to reject your doctor's best advice, although civil law might prevent you from trying to force either of those options on women in your family and acquiantance, unless you're able to bully them sufficiently to agree.
However, the above isn't likely, is it? Yours (or your wife's, daughter's, etc.'s) late-term abortion will miraculously be the only moral late-term abortion to your new way of thinking, and you'll opt for the more medically-safe procedure, like self-serving the hypocrite that you are.
"We have anti-choice women in for abortions all the time. Many of them are just naive and ignorant until they find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy. Many of them are not malicious. They just haven't given it the proper amount of thought until it completely affects them. They can be judgmental about their friends, family, and other women. Then suddenly they become pregnant. Suddenly they see the truth. That it should only be their own choice. Unfortunately, many also think that somehow they are different than everyone else and they deserve to have an abortion, while no one else does." (Physician, Washington State)
Although few studies have been made of this phenomenon, a study done in 1981 (1) found that 24% of women who had abortions considered the procedure morally wrong, and 7% of women who'd had abortions disagreed with the statement, "Any woman who wants an abortion should be permitted to obtain it legally." A 1994/95 survey (2,3) of nearly 10,000 abortion patients showed 18% of women having abortions are born-again or Evangelical Christians. Many of these women are likely anti-choice. The survey also showed that Catholic women have an abortion rate 29% higher than Protestant women. A Planned Parenthood handbook on abortion notes that nearly half of all abortions are for women who describe themselves as born-again Christian, Evangelical Christian, or Catholic. (4)
According to a 1987 article, Abortion Clinics' Toughest Cases,(5) "Physicians and clinics frequently terminate pregnancies for women who believe abortion is 'murder' and 'a sin' but who are not anti-abortion activists. Demonstrators, organizers, and leaders in the [anti-abortion] movement are seen less frequently, ranging from perhaps once or twice a month to a few times in the course of a professional career." The article contained the following anecdotes:
An administrator at a Missouri clinic recalled a woman blurting out in the recovery room, "It should be illegal." The other women's mouths fell open, said the administrator. "They couldn't believe it."
The medical director of an Indianapolis clinic recalled one prospective patient who phoned to ask whether the clinic had a back door. He said no. How, she asked, could she get inside without being seen by fellow picketers outside? Pointing out that two orthopedists practiced with him, the doctor told the woman "she could limp and say she was coming to see the orthopods."
The medical director at a Dallas abortion clinic told this story: A white woman from an affluent north Dallas neighborhood brought her black maid in for an abortion and paid for it. While the maid was in a counseling session, a commotion was heard in the waiting room outside. The maid's employer was handing out anti-abortion leaflets to other women waiting for abortions.
From a clinic director in a mid-western state: "One of the most remarkable cases was a woman who came [from another part of the state] and said she was the Right-to-Life president in her county. 'But,' she said, she 'had become pregnant and had to have an abortion.'"
From a counselor in Virginia: "[The patient] was disturbed and upset and insisted she couldn't carry the pregnancy to term. She opposed abortion -- and in fact had picketed this very clinic -- [but] felt the abortion was something she had to do."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/3/23/91949/7401
"In the spring of 2000, I collected the following anecdotes directly from abortion doctors and other clinic staff in North America, Australia, and Europe. The stories are presented in the providers' own words, with minor editing for grammar, clarity, and brevity. Names have been omitted to protect privacy.
"I have done several abortions on women who have regularly picketed my clinics, including a 16 year old schoolgirl who came back to picket the day after her abortion, about three years ago. During her whole stay at the clinic, we felt that she was not quite right, but there were no real warning bells. She insisted that the abortion was her idea and assured us that all was OK. She went through the procedure very smoothly and was discharged with no problems. A quite routine operation. Next morning she was with her mother and several school mates in front of the clinic with the usual anti posters and chants. It appears that she got the abortion she needed and still displayed the appropriate anti views expected of her by her parents, teachers, and peers." (Physician, Australia)
I've had several cases over the years in which the anti-abortion patient had rationalized in one way or another that her case was the only exception, but the one that really made an impression was the college senior who was the president of her campus Right-to-Life organization, meaning that she had worked very hard in that organization for several years. As I was completing her procedure, I asked what she planned to do about her high office in the RTL organization. Her response was a wide-eyed, 'You're not going to tell them, are you!?' When assured that I was not, she breathed a sigh of relief, explaining how important that position was to her and how she wouldn't want this to interfere with it." (Physician, Texas)
Much, much more at:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/3/23/91949/7401
The word "betrayed" now comes to mind when I think about the candidate I once so enthusiastically supported.
/sarcasm
I hope you're right- I'm sure tired of this plutoctatic, theocratic paradise we're living in now. Unfortunately, Obama's only concrete positions just reaffirm it.
I got it too, Busboy, from my RW operatives. It is FALSE, buddy.
It is a sin to bear false witness you know.
A Xtian without works, go and sin no more.
http://iperceive.net/obama-odinga-the-kenyan-ji...
Just because you see something on the "internets", does not necessarily mean it is true. I thought you knew that basic fact about online life?
The best thing to do these days, with all of the rumor mongering going on, is to check out the story/rumor in http://www.snopes.com . They usually are up on all of the latest tripe being passed around, especially during these very BUSY days of pre-election day bologna. There are lots of such sties, but Snopes and one other site (which I can't remember the name of) are the most reliable in bashing rumors of this type BEFORE you go around spreading them as fact.
You can also check out: http://www.factcheck.org/
which is a "supposedly" non partisan site that is up on all things political. They aren't quite the same as debunking urban legends, but they are an accurate site that will correct any wrong assumptions on anything of a political nature.
So PLEASE, check out your rumors BEFORE spreading them around, OK?
.
Late term abortion is awful, but some will never survive after birth either.
Thats why any out right ban is difficult and complicated.
Look at all the DU birth defects in Iraq, poisoned beyond any kind of life after birth.
I don't watch ABC but, heard this morning was a joke in their attempt to promote the usual gop/McSprinkles talking points and tell the voters that Obama is a flipper who cannot be trusted and has abandoned every democratic issue because he is a cynical pol out to use everyone in his grab for power.
Personally, I am more than fed up and think we need to push back hard. We cannot let them do to Obama what they did to Gore and Kerry and trash this man's reputation and candidacy.
It's time we start to fight them back. And stop the press generated faux story that Obama has abandoned his policies and has moved on the issues.
Please read this and see what is going on:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-creamer/pr...
And you guys are falling for it so easily.
Google or youtube any issue of Obama's and you can see he is pretty consistent with his policy. he has not moved but, the media is trying to convince you he has.
Wake up people. Don't you see that they are playing the same games as in 2000 and 2004.
In the last hour I have read several sources of Obama's remarks re: abortion restrictions after 22 weeks, and in this singular instance I agree with you - the ABC reporting linked here is media manipulation.
Obama says:
"My only point is that in an area like partial birth abortion having a mental, having a health exception can be defined rigorously," Obama continued.
"It can be defined through physical health. It can be defined by serious clinical mental health diseases. It is not just a matter of feeling blue. I don't think that's how pro-choice folks have interpreted it. I don't think that's how the courts have interpreted it and I think that's important to emphasize and understand."
Most supporters of a woman's right to make her own reproduction choices agree that besides guaranteeing this right, the government has no other role to play. But in today's reality and in general principle, Obama is simply making a point clearer about what currently is and is not legal and I don't have much of a problem with his statement.
However, his recent statements regards FISA and continuing "faith-based" Fed $ and even his remarks about "redefining" his Iraq withdrawal stance can only be interpreted as swings to the right away from his base and while Obama's statements are sure to get twisted in the reporting, facts are facts and his words are his words.
I dunno if boring is the word, but he's not the red-hot spark he was.
Scattered? Scary? Heartbreaking?
Leaving aside the politics of the issue and how it feeds into the "move to the center" narrative, I just want to take a moment to say that in my eyes Obama seems to have articulated exactly the right position on abortion legality. Now if only he would go a bit further and spell out how he wants to make the reduction of abortions a priority of his administration, as the pro-Obama pro-lifers want, then maybe he could make some huge electoral gains by getting more conservative Catholics and evangelicals on board.
It's important to remember that there are millions, MILLIONS, of religious voters out there who would like to vote Democratic, but will not pull the lever for a (D) candidate because they are strongly pro-life on the abortion issue. Many of these religious voters are in swing states like Ohio and Pennsylvania. Obama can win over some of these voters w/o compromising his basic pro-choice position and commitment to appointing the right kind of Supreme Court justices, and this issue could make or break the entire campaign.
Taking into consideration the argument and the parsing, aside from the subject, and Obama has morphed into Hillary. Same, same, same.
Rather than get who I assume you would consider the lesser of two evils, you want to cast a vote that will help to make the WORSE of two evils be able to come to power and put more horrible justices up for Supreme Court nomination. You know full well that Nader will NEVER, EVER be elected president, so don't you DARE waste your vote, as it will simply put McCain into office.
Ever hear the expression: "Don't bite your nose off to spite your face?"