AMERICAblog: Obama picks homophobe pro-'Prop 8' evangelical preacher to give the invocation at inaugural
sandra
· 11 months ago
what was he thinking???
TexDad
· 11 months ago
Again, OBAMA didn't select him... a congressional inauguration committee unaffiliated with Obama is setting the agenda.
Apphouse50
· 11 months ago
Uhm, he has NO say in this? I find that really hard to believe.
existenz
· 11 months ago
Yes, he does have a say. From the Inaugural Program news release:
The program participants were invited by the Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies and chosen by the Chairman, the Presidential-elect and the Vice President-elect.
It would take massive public pressure to force Obama to dis-invite Rick Warren, but it can be done. We need to go viral with Warren's most offensive statements, such as agreeing with Sean Hannity about killing foreign leaders and his equation of gays with pedophiles. I'm sure Obama has been too busy since the election to notice the avalanche of crazy coming from Warren lately...at least I hope.
Register your disappointment and anger at Change.gov:
Folks should also know that famed civil rights minister Rev. Joseph Lowery will be giving the benediction, in a more prominent place than asshole Rick Warren.
In case you forgot, Lowery became famous to us bloggers when he spoke at Coretta Scott King's funeral, right in front of George W. Bush, and said this:
We know now there were no weapons of mass destruction over there. But Coretta knew and we know that there are weapons of misdirection right down here. Millions without health insurance. Poverty abounds. For war billions more but no more for the poor!
Conservatives were highly pissed at this remark, while liberals cheered. Obama should just have Lowery do the invocation in addition to whatever speaking role he has.
And yes, the pressure should go not only to Obama, but to the Congressional committee that selected Warren without doing their background on his odious statements regarding gays, torture, the assassination of foreign leaders, etc.
mamazboy
· 11 months ago
Depressing and, frankly, disgusting. What is the excuse/reasoning here? To "reach out" and be "bipartisan" with a major homophobe and religious huckster?
jcgraham77
· 11 months ago
I think he is wanting to please everyone....I am not sure how I feel about this. I am sure he could have came up with a liberal clergyman. All he is doing is validating this nutjob.
Butch1
· 11 months ago
Well his reaching out sure didn't please me.
jcgraham77
· 11 months ago
Me either!!!!
naschkatzehussein
· 11 months ago
I'm getting tired of his trying to please everyone. It can't be done, and what it does do is alienate the very people who have supported him from the beginning and bless the people who have wished him nothing but failure and ill will.
fromer
· 11 months ago
what a f*cking joke, and what a huge betrayal. Barack Obama's stock just dropped a WHOLE lotta points in my book.
Roger Thomson
· 11 months ago
I am so disgusted with this choice of Rick Warren. i have been swallowing hard as NO CHANGE Obama has appointed the same old tired Clinton crowd to every important position, but this is just spitting in my face.. They gladly took my $10,000 and hours of campaigning. Surely there must be ONE inclusive minister out there who could give an invocation! I am over him before he starts - I feel so betrayed.
Older_Wiser
· 11 months ago
Don't tell me Obama is just going to be another bait and switch politician.
This is outrageous. Why should there even be an invocation at all? It's not as though we don't have separation of church and state...
pdxprobert
· 11 months ago
I think Obama's choice is brilliant... he's doing what he set out to do... find the center and bring as many people there as he can...
Butch1
· 11 months ago
. . .really . . .
pdxprobert
· 11 months ago
I might have understood your response if it was followed by a ? or by the word now or some other defining term, but as it stands, whats your "...really..." supposed to be implying?
Butch1
· 11 months ago
Yes, that would work better with a question mark. I find nothing brilliant about it, in my opinion.
naschkatzehussein
· 11 months ago
It will do no such thing. Rick Warren is not at the center.
sandra
· 11 months ago
jeremiah wright would be a better pick!!
existenz
· 11 months ago
I'd love it -- just to see Hannity explode!
Butch1
· 11 months ago
Yes.He and his group are so afraid of offending the religious right and republicans in general that they forget that they are offending others in their own party in a huge way. I guess once the votes are counted, we do not count anymore. This was poor planning and myopic thinking to choose this preacher and figure two-percent of the population becoming offended is a risk worth taking.
northbound
· 11 months ago
But I read over at Salon that Congress, not Obama, picked this guy? Or is this one of those situations in which Congress wouldn't have done it unless Obama OK'd it?
Ron Tunning
· 11 months ago
I'm not amused. Nor do I find it encouraging in the least. Indeed, this really is more disgusting than the McClurkin incident.
There are tens of thousands of available clergymen and clergywomen from which to choose who would not offend.
vkobaya
· 11 months ago
Might as well have a Buddhist priest, a Wiccan witchor a Muslim Iman for all the Christianity in Warren's soul. That man is a greedy, lying right wing, preacher of the despicable order of Robert Schuler, you remember, Clinton's spiritual counselor who assaulted and choked a flight attendant. Why didn't they just go whole hog and invite the Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan to give the invocation.
Milli
· 11 months ago
If this is true, he'll be hearing from a lot of angry gays and lesbians who donated to and volunteered for his campaign. He better wake up really quick and do the right thing because things are going to get loud from our corner of the party if he doesn't.
Greensburg
· 11 months ago
Get used to it gay people in America. Obama will do nothing but shit on the gay community all in the name of being inclusive. I am not the least bit surprised by this and in fact expect more shit from the president elect
SteamingPile
· 11 months ago
From Salon:
the decision to get involved with Saddleback was actually not Obama's. The Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies, run by the House and Senate, put together the program for the swearing-in ceremony. Congress, not Obama, invited Warren (as well as scheduling a musical performance by Aretha Franklin; here's hoping she doesn't reprise the 2005 inaugural performance of John Ashcroft's "Let the Eagle Soar").
So find the congresscritter who chairs the joint committee and beat on that individual.
Butch1
· 11 months ago
I find it incredible that Obama had "nothing" to do with his own installation. I seem to recall JFK having the person he wanted to give the invocation. What is wrong with this committee if they are culpable? It is obvious that they could care less about our plight. This was truly insensitive.
vkobaya
· 11 months ago
So find the congresscritter who chairs the joint committee and beat on that individual.
Rather a spritz of Black Flag or Raid would be more appropriate.
The Dark Avenger
· 11 months ago
I think this gentleman would be more appropriate, given the times we find ourselves in:
Radio Ad: "If you want pie in the sky by and by, then you don't want Reverend Ike. But if you want pie ala-mode with ice cream on top, then listen to Reverend Ike every Sunday morning"...
He has stated that he owns a fleet of Rolls-Royces (a different color for every day of the week, appointed in mink), diamond rings, expensive suits, and multiple mansions - far from hiding his wealth, Reverend Ike makes it a point of his preaching. His theology centers around the "Science of Living" and "Thinkonomics," his own version of economics based on the premise that poverty, a lack of luck, poor health, etc., are the result of incorrect attitudes, a lack of confidence, a lack of faith and a failure to get in touch with the "presence of God within each of us." "Unlearning" these attitudes, according to Reverend Ike, leads to wealth and health and his own flamboyant prosperity, and that of some of his followers, is, he claims, evidence of this. (His television programs, for instance, used to include the "Blessing of the Cadillacs," where prosperous congregants were invited to drive their luxury cars past the church's doors for his laying on of hands.)
Jennifer
· 11 months ago
I'm callling on everyone I know to fill out the form on Change.gov on this one. This is ridiculous. The guy is a self-help author. Why not Jefferts-Schori (first woman Archbishop in the WORLD) or Gene Robinson (first out gay bishop in the WORLD). Why this homophobic jackass?
Really, the worst move he could have made. Just beneath him.
Jim Olson
· 11 months ago
How about John Thomas, president of the United Church of Christ, the denomination that Obama belongs to?
TampaZeke
· 11 months ago
John Thomas would have been an EXCELLENT choice.
He is the leader of a mainstream church that has always been a leader in the struggle for justice and equality for ALL people throughout their history and throughout the history of the USA.
Thomas would be an excellent choice even if he weren't the president of Obama's denomination. The fact that he is makes him an even more obvious choice.
I agree with others here. Warren is the absolute WORST possible choice for this honor.
vkobaya
· 11 months ago
Keep in mind that while the election of Obama is a massive, massive progressive achievement, the credit goes to the progressives, not to Obama who sees himself as owned body and soul by the corporations. Obama himself is the corporate N-----, their slave. After the election of the third or fourth Black, liberal president, we will actually be where we should be and have real progressive achievement.
Greensburg
· 11 months ago
bullshit steaming pile, the blame belongs on obama or is he just another little puppet like bush was? I guess congress runs everything when your a democrap and the pres runs everything if your a repuke. he only gets to pick what dog goes into the white house, not what goes on for the inaugural ceremonies? I dont believe it.
wearing out my F key
· 11 months ago
i'm shocked. shocked! i suppose next we'll find out he's not bringing the occupation of iraq to an end.
sullivan
· 11 months ago
Where is moveon.org NOW that we really need them? Come on guys or you never get another cent from me!!!
judybrowni
· 11 months ago
Okay, who do I call and email about this outrage -- WHO?
JUST TELL ME.
Apphouse50
· 11 months ago
Go to Change.org and click on "Contact." I just did and communicated my great pissedoffedness.
Johnny
· 11 months ago
The Vice President of the United States went on television and OPENLY ADMITTED TO COMMITTING WAR CRIMES, and we're whining about which loon is going to talk to the Flying Spaghetti Monster on Innauguration Day? Well, I guess that will give Pelosi something to focus on other than the ACTUAL CRIME she said had to exist before she got off her obviously corrupt ass and did something.
All you're going to get from Ms. Pelosi is silence. No matter how much evidence is presented to her about war crimes, even coming from the "horses' mouth", there will never be enough to make her grow a spine and impeach them.
Lolis
· 11 months ago
I agree. Some perspective is needed. I don't know any pastor's name who has participated in an inaugural ceremony. I still think the decision sucks, but ... there are other things that matter way more.
Milli
· 11 months ago
Wow, he had dinner with a gay couple? How incredibly gracious he is. If only more heterosexuals could be more like him, and Pat Boone.
Butch1
· 11 months ago
I wonder if they had their shots before going to dinner? He is disgusting in that yes, he is an homophobe and yes, he is an hypocrite.
samdinista
· 11 months ago
Monsanto stooge Vilsack at Agriculture, Warren giving the invocation... The more things "change", the more the whole "change" thing is shown to be a lie.
usagi
· 11 months ago
How can you possibly act surprised about this? Obama has treated gays with the "you have nowhere else to go" attitude that pervades the Democratic party since long before he clinched the nomination. News flash: Obama is not a friend to teh gays!!! Also this hour: Water found to be wet and sun anticipated to rise in the east.
tigergrrldc
· 11 months ago
Were Hagee and Parsley not available? And someone should tell Rick Warren that there are many people that have HIV/AIDS that didn't get it through gay relationships.
tigergrrldc
· 11 months ago
Oh, and Palin's pastor that hunted witches? He must be very busy and can't make it, either.
Johnny
· 11 months ago
Palin's pastor hunted witches? Seriously?! I haven't heard about that... That sounds hysterical! Do tell!!!
sisterfaith
· 11 months ago
Johnny....actually it was a guest pastor at Moose Girl's church....he did pray over her......you can find it on youtube.... he hunted witches in Africa (you know the country of Africa as opposed to the continent).
jcgraham77
· 11 months ago
OMG>..search the video of him laying hands on Palin in front of the congregation to protect her from witches. Its nuts.
Butch1
· 11 months ago
Yes, it's not a ceremony unless we have some "booga-booga" in it.
Ron Tunning
· 11 months ago
I find the selection of Rev. Warren to be offensive. It’s one thing to open the doors to dissent, it’s quite another to provide a platform and an amplifier to a bigot.
While some may see Warren’s inclusion as an example of tolerance, I view it as an endorsement of intolerance.
I’ve been an active and avid supporter of President-elect Obama, and generally subscribe to his efforts to bridge the social divide. However, there is a significant difference between being willing to listen to opposing viewpoints and putting one’s imprimatur on the message. Obama’s choice of Warren delivers the latter.
g'moms
· 11 months ago
I agree with Ron, the statement "it's one thing to open the doors to dissent is quite another to provide a PLATFORM and an AMPLIFIEr to a BIGOT" (my Caps, not his). I was holding this off but now, today, I can't say I'm not disappointed in Obama!
G'moms
samiinh
· 11 months ago
From Mark Ambinder: Dr. Rick Warren of Saddleback Church will give the formal invocation at Barack Obama's inauguration. The good pro-life theologian first met Obama in 2006 at a Saddleback AIDS forum in California. Obama used the occasion to press the evangelical pastors present to embrace "realism" when they considered the issue; preach abstience, yes, but preaching against contraception can kill. (Here's some of what Obama said that day: "I know that there are those who, out of sincere religious conviction, oppose such measures. And with these folks, I must respectfully but unequivocally disagree. I do not accept the notion that those who make mistakes in their lives should be given an effective death sentence.")
pdxprobert
· 11 months ago
The religious communities arent going away. In fact as the economy faulters, religion will become more important to people as they seek ways to find community again... Im not a religious person and the hypocrisy's of the buffet style preaching that many preachers use disgusts me... But I believe Obama is doing the right thing in courting the religious communities and in particular those that follow the Evangelical doctrines.. because I think he understands them better than they do themselves... I once saw a documentary about an old black couple from the civil rights era of the 50s and 60s... I distinctly remember the wife saying how she knew white peoples customs and beliefs better than white people did because white people never had to be introspective back then.. it was their world... she had to know how white people thought because her survival depended on it... I think Obama is a survivor... you cant enlighten people unless you understand them and know what keeps them ignorant and why they want to remain that way...
KareninATL
· 11 months ago
Isn't this the same guy who allowed John McCain to "cheat" by listening in to Obama's answers at that fundy forum? Giving him the invocation makes Obama look like he comes back for more abuse. It's a signal of weakness and degredation. Ugh.
jose
· 11 months ago
Your point is moot, John. Would you have voted for Hillary instead of Obama knowing what you know now? No. Would you have voted for McCain instead of Obama knowing what you know now? No.
It's time to accept that the President-elect isn't going to do anything Earth-shattering in terms of pro-gay legistlation in his first term. He's appealing to everyone and when you do that, you piss off some people sometimes.
Older_Wiser
· 11 months ago
Warren is the son and grandson of Baptist ministers. He's just found a hook ("purpose driven" bullshit) to spread the same disease the Baptists do. And he has worldwide ambitions--Billy Graham is one of his models--so this should give him plenty of gravitas. Evidently, letting a preacher host a debate gave him some, too.
Separation of church and state, People. Separation of church and state.
gardengirl
· 11 months ago
Man, you guys are harsh. Obama didn't choose Warren. I'm not happy about it, either, but can we hold off on the tacit rejections of the future president? He is pro-gay rights. His wife is pro-gay rights. He mentioned us in his acceptance speech. He's chosen some out officials to fill posts and will do more of it. Give Obama a break.
John Aravosis
· 11 months ago
Uh sorry, read Greg Sargent's post, Obama literally chose him
Butch1
· 11 months ago
That's what I thought.
gymnjim
· 11 months ago
WOW this is surprising how?
I would be outraged if I were a bit surprised. The only interest Obama showed in the gay community was taking our money and time. He got neither from me.
After all Obama's stated position is the same as prop 8. Marriage is between a man and a women.
Ayn L. Roberts
· 11 months ago
This clown looks like Jerry Falwell with a hillbilly face-mullet. If Obama had a real set of nads, he'd get Reverend Wright to do the thang.
Apphouse50
· 11 months ago
Gotta admit, I'm horrified at this.
Rich Warren.
What the hell?
existenz
· 11 months ago
Famed civil rights minister Rev. Joseph Lowery will also be speaking at the inauguration. This is the guy who said, at Coretta Scott King's funeral right in front of George W. Bush:
We know now there were no weapons of mass destruction over there. But Coretta knew and we know that there are weapons of misdirection right down here. Millions without health insurance. Poverty abounds. For war billions more but no more for the poor!
I don't know what Lowery's role will be, but hopefully it is a lot more high profile than the invocation. I can't remember the last time I even saw an invocation on TV, they usually happen at the beginning before anyone is even paying attention.
johnbpt
· 11 months ago
And so it begins...
Stephen - DE
· 11 months ago
Maybe we should become a religon......
LanceThruster
· 11 months ago
I would have preferred Rev. Wright myself. I saw Pastor Rick on the toob recently saying how a relative who underwent a problem birth and a C-section was a good thing (from God) because they later found she had a tumor of the brain stem (she might have died if she had given a regular birth from pressure bursting the blood vessels). I don't want this sort of "God as Rube Goldberg" buffoonery anywhere near the seat of power. Billy Graham was bad enough.
God DAMN America!
Rita Miller
· 11 months ago
Rick Warren is one of the biggest hate figures in the US. After the way he lied and conducted the so-called McCain-Obama debate, how could he be consided for anything involving the Obama swearing in ceremony? He is one big overbloated piece of shit.
Lolis
· 11 months ago
I agree with you. This is a bad move.
sisterfaith
· 11 months ago
I'm trying to keep the faith......but some of this s.....t i s beginning to disturb me.
Older_Wiser
· 11 months ago
Ray LaHood (R-IL, retiring) for Transportation Secy. WTF?
Butch1
· 11 months ago
How dense is Obama? So this is how he thanks the gays and lesbians who helped vote him into office. Out of all the preachers he could have picked, he chooses one for political reasons that insults gay Americans who are fighting for their rights.
Warren can explain all he wants why his opinion is that only a man and a woman shall marry and he can claim there are 5,000 years of historical tradition to prove it but why does he ignore slavery, or polygamy, both approved in the Bible? Why is he not for standing up for those things? He's against polygamy but the bible isn't. So he is allowed to pick and choose which rules and regulations he wants to follow and we all should follow them as well regardless of weather we are not religious, Christian, Jew, Muslim or what have you. This faux pax by Obama and his team is a slap in the face of those still fighting for their civil rights and he should jolly well hear about it and often. I expected more of him and this was terribly insensitive of him.
Ben Dover
· 11 months ago
Doesn't this all fall into the "Well, that didn't take long" category? How many times do we have to get kicked in the groin before we realize that "change" is for everyone else? If Obama wanted too, he could change all this with one simple phone call. I'm putting my money on that call never being made.
Sickening.
gardengirl
· 11 months ago
People, Barack Obama did not choose Rick Warren. Yes, he sux. But Joseph Lowery will speak, too.
nicho
· 11 months ago
I wondered how long it would take Obama to show his true colors, but even I thought it would be after the inauguration.
We've been suckered! Hope and Change? Bullshit. Obama is a fraud!
Well, at least I won't have to worry whether the media will try to destroy him. He's doing it all by himself.
Let's see -- who can we support in 2012? 'Cause I sure as hell won't be supporting him.
vkobaya
· 11 months ago
Well, truth is the point of Obama's never was that he was a liberal or progressive. It simply was that he was a Black man and the massive shock that represents in itself to the racist, White, corporate establishment. I voted for Obama knowing he was the corporate, racist, bigoted elites N----- and their slave, owned body and soul.
wearing out my F key
· 11 months ago
a wise man once said, "politicians lie. get over it"
smallhandff
· 11 months ago
Is it now time for the next series in Obama bumber stickers: "Where's The Change?"
sisterfaith
· 11 months ago
I guess this bears repeating........helps me anyway....
From Salon:
the decision to get involved with Saddleback was actually not Obama's. The Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies, run by the House and Senate, put together the program for the swearing-in ceremony. Congress, not Obama, invited Warren (as well as scheduling a musical performance by Aretha Franklin; here's hoping she doesn't reprise the 2005 inaugural performance of John Ashcroft's "Let the Eagle Soar").
nicho
· 11 months ago
I'm sure Obama has the final say. He could squelch any choice they make with a single phone call. Sorry, but this just doesn't wash.
Yvonne
· 11 months ago
Why should Obama squelch this when Warren is a personal friend of his? Congress made the decision, Obama likes the guy and has openly stated his disagreements with him but he's supposed to raise a stink and bar him from giving the invocation? Grow up.
jimkhm
· 11 months ago
TO expect anything less out of organized religion, even quasi orgainized non-denominational evangelicals is foolish. These people don't get it, and they never will, yet they will scream justice from the top of their lungs all the while they deny it to the LGBT community. These "religious" folks are not even capable of seeing the similarities to any other minority. Warren might as well have said I am not a rascist, I have had dinner at African-Americans homes. He wouldn't see that statement as offensive either. I for one will not have any dealings with any religion, even quasi organized ones, except to attend a worship service. To participate in anything else would be against Jesus' very words.
Ben Dover
· 11 months ago
Barry needs to get off his ass and speak about all-encompassing inclusion. That he will not take part in, or promote anything less. He should publicly declare that there is NO PLACE for the politics exclusivity within his administration and those that practice exclusivity will not have a place at the table. But he won't. And if I hear the canard of Barry not being able to do this or that "in his first term" one more time...
Lolis
· 11 months ago
if you truly respect people, you should call them by the names they go by, not the favorite nickname of the Limbaugh crowd.
DavidDc
· 11 months ago
Of course McClurkin wasn't a fluke. Gay concerns are secondary for Obama and those around him. John, it didn't stop you from drinking the Kool-Aid for Obama and abandoning all perspective during the primaries, even going so far as to repeat the most scurrilous smears of Hillary Clinton to get him elected. Sorry, but you don't have much of a platform left to protest this kind of thing. Your credibility is shot.
Lolis
· 11 months ago
Policy-wise Obama had better proposal for the LGBT community. I think he has been too open to the evangelical fundies and that is a HUGE weakness. But his inauguration is also the first to have a GAY band. So to say that he is anti-gay because of this one thing and ignore everything else is somewhat dishonest, especially if you are holding up Hillary Clinton as some kind of hero. PUMAs are just as blinded as hardcore Obama fans. All politicians are weak.
DavidDc
· 11 months ago
I'm not a PUMA. I'm a Democrat. I supported Obama after he was the nominee. I NEVER signed on to lies and smears directed at any Democrat -- that is what I am criticizing Aravosis for.
PUMA is a straw man -- it is telling that you assume anyone who was offended by Aravosis' actions during the primary must be a PUMA.
And, a gay band? Good comeback. I nearly spit up on my keyboard at that one.
Lolis
· 11 months ago
Well I didn't read this blog early in the primary so I don't know what it had.
I just assumed you were a PUMA since you mentioned HRC, otherwise I wouldn't have.
I do not support Rick Warren, for a lot of other reasons including the gay marriage stuff. To be honest, I think the gay band is as important as the invocation. Neither being very important in practical terms. It is the symbolism that gets people. I understand it. But Lowery supports gay marriage and he closes the inauguration. So I think Obama was trying to create a dialogue, but I just think Warren is too despicable to have a dialogue with. It does freak me out that Obama likes him.
Jennifer
· 11 months ago
Feinstein is the Chair of the Committee. Go to her contact page on her site and let her have it. Send one to Harry Reid while you're at it, because he's on the Committee too. CAUSE A STINK!
"After all the division that Prop. H8 has caused, you are allowing a massive homophobe, Reverend Rick Warren, to give the inaugural invocation? Was your PSA against Prop H8 just so much glad-handing? Are we to trust our Senator when she speaks to us or do we always have to do mental gymnastics trying figure out what she actually stands for? After being mayor of a city with one of the largest gay populations and becoming Mayor after the assassinations of one of the first and most-beloved elected gay politicians I'm fairly shocked at this. This is not "sitting down with those who disagree with us"; this is literally giving glory to the devil. I'm incredibly ashamed of you at this point. Find another pastor -- I understand Gene Robinson or Peter J. Gomes could be available; both are extremely intelligent and religious, more in line with Barack Obama, and less offensive than this bigoted gadfly."
She's not to be trusted and I'm not voting for her and everyone else here who lives in California should throw this cow out.
Butch1
· 11 months ago
Well, if those two were involved in the decision making, I can see why they picked Warren. One is a Mormon and the other is essentially a Blue Dog. What was one to expect?!
Chad
· 11 months ago
Aravosis, you carried water for Obama when we told you to think clearly on this one. Why act so surprised now?
John Aravosis
· 11 months ago
Oh good God, people do learn and they do change. I thought Obama had actually grown after the McClurkin thing. If you write off everyone who does anything wrong, even once, then you will be left with no one. Life, and politics, are far more nuanced than that. This is bad, and we're calling him out on it. But please, stop with the recriminations. Hillary had problems on gay stuff, they all did. Do you suggest we should have supported no Democrats for president?
DavidDc
· 11 months ago
Perhaps you might have supported Obama without going "all-in" on the Hillary smears (prime example: the alleged "Blackface ad"). Really, man, you lost all perspective. How does anyone take for granted that any "research" you post on Warren can be considered true after the way you conducted your site during the primary? Based on your primary smears, I wouldn't repeat any of the "facts" in your posts in any argument on this issue (or any other) without double checking -- I could be using cooked information.
paulbe
· 11 months ago
In a word...yes. A vote for Democrats is a vote for the other head of the same two headed monster. That is looking clearer with each passing day. The same money and interests control their own survival and privilege by maintaining control of both parties. Don't you have any credible third parties over there?
Sean
· 11 months ago
So disappointing. After all the hurt from Prop 8 this really is a slap in the face.
RitornaVincitor
· 11 months ago
John, I told you repeatedly when the McClurkin flap first appeared that McClurkin was no fluke. You repeatedly deleted my posts and eventually banned me. Now we both know that we have a problem.
friendofafriend
· 11 months ago
Obama doesn't support gay marriage. Why is anyone surprised?
danconnors
· 11 months ago
Pam Spaulding found the Liason to the LGBT on the transition team: Parag Mehta parag.mehta@ptt.gov. perhaps we might want to write the transition team a little more directly! My guess is there is little chance of a disinvite at this point, no matter how much I would like it, as Obama would not like to be seen as caving to an interest group, even if that interest group is made up of the vast majority of his constituency. I suggest we work on getting Warren balanced with an inclusive sane person, who would actually represent everything this administration has claimed to work for.
Lolis
· 11 months ago
i emailed him/her.
bluelyon
· 11 months ago
Him. I actually know him. Was/is on staff at the DNC.
Rab
· 11 months ago
I tried to keep the faith but this is bullshit of a different world. What is he thinking? Warren is a fucking repug, plain and simple. As a heterosexual I'm disgusted by the attitudes of many heterosexual towards the gay community , what does this say about gay rights (HUMAN RIGHTS). Is this thing over?
Ruttle
· 11 months ago
This is so disappointing. The news actually made me feel nauseous. I work part time in a book store and sometimes have to help customers find this foul pig's books. A little part of me dies inside with each sale.
Tom
· 11 months ago
Why not Reverend Peter Gomes, the chaplain at Harvard? Erudite, well-spoken, moderate (former-Republican), African American, and gay. A very powerful preacher as well.
woodroad34
· 11 months ago
I suggested the same thing in an email to Mz. "I'm getting rich off the war" Feinstein. Or even Gene Robinson. These two are more about change than the hate-mongering, hypocritical Warren.
Arouete
· 11 months ago
Yes! Peter Gomes would have been perfect. Or how about a minister from his own denomination the UCC which supports marriage equality?
tigergrrldc
· 11 months ago
Well, at least we know that Obama's "inclusiveness" does not include progressives or the LGBT community, but it does include every racist, homophobe, and conservative. With Obama it's been one disappointment after another. I guess I should hope he doesn't f**k up as bad or worse than Bush and leave it at that. And I say this as a black lesbian.
regis18
· 11 months ago
I just read that it was not Obama who made the selection of Warren but the Congressional Inaugural Committee -- whoever they are. A sick, sick, choice of a man whose views Obama must find reprehensible.
Arouete
· 11 months ago
No "committee" decides. This buck stops with Obama. It is HIS choice. And btw he and Warren are fast friends. And where did you read that?
Kaizergrande
· 11 months ago
Sheesh! Intolerance is apparently a two-way street. Obama is inheriting the biggest crock of shit ever and you lot think he's sitting around in Chicago picking out china and sorting out seating arrangements. The Salon article clearly states it was the Congressional Inauguration Committee that chose Warren. But even if Obama did choose him so friggin' what? The fact is, like it or not, there are far more people that share Rick Warren's views than there are that share ours. The sum of our rage cannot overwhelm the sum of theirs. We have to bring about the change we want the same way Ghandi, MLK and Mandela did... shaming our adversaries with our tolerance in the face of their intolerance, our patient persistence in the face of their frantic agitation. BTW I think this attitude of likening Obama or anyone else on our side to some backstabbing traitor anytime they do something we don't agree with is more than a little childish. Politics isn't magic, it's painstaking bridge building. The tyranny of the few over the many is just as bad as the tyranny of the many over the few. Like Obama said, "We may not get there in a year or even one term, but we will get there." Everyone just needs to chill the fuck out and keep an eye on the big picture and quit freaking out over every freakable thing.
Ben Dover
· 11 months ago
Do you actually believe for one moment that Obama doesn't have final say over who will be on the podium with him or the prayer/speech that person will deliver? That this is all out of his hands and he has no say in the way the program is presented? And just for the record; Equality is in no way tyranny.
Steve_in_CNJ
· 11 months ago
please stop the BS. if this is not your issue (ie, you have nothing to lose personally because you don't care if gays and lesbians explode and die) then just have the decency to go away and STFU. this anointing of a national homophobe is unnecessary. you can still deal with national issues without shitting on gays and lesbians in the process.
Ruttle
· 11 months ago
Ha! "Anointing of a national homophobe" - great line - mind if I use that sometime? :D
Ruttle
· 11 months ago
What nonsense. Obama could certainly have vetoed this awful choice. They could have found someone moderate- someone who was not a virulent homophobic pig. This is not bridge building either. This is giving a huge platform to a shithead. And you know what - you chill the fuck out. You want to sit back and let people stomp on you? Go for it. Not me. When the prez does something that pisses me off you can bet I wont be a chicken shit coward and claim its some bizarre kind of bridge building exercise. We need to raise our voices and be heard. Your way = fail. Sit down and be quiet and maybe they will like us, is that it? wtf is the matter with you?
RitornaVincitor
· 11 months ago
I respectfully disagree. Equality for gays is no small matter. People should freak out about it. And having a man like Warren give the invocation is not "getting there". It is going in the wrong direction.
jcgraham77
· 11 months ago
Maybe it was time to leave the Democrats to fend for themselves til they come to their senses--we as a whole should have sat this one out. I think Obama is using his "mandate"--he is going to do as he pleases. I am done with the democratic party...I think I will vote with my wallet from now on--at least it pays off--it may not paralell with my social ideals but voting democrat isn't helping.
tlsintx
· 11 months ago
I detest Rick Warren. He tries to be so mainstream, always talking about how many wonderful gay friends he has and then in goes the knife to the back.
Barack Obama, this is not the religious leader you should embrace. He is more of the same old hate hiding behind phony piety. Come. On.
Lolis
· 11 months ago
Rick Warren also advocated killing Iran's leader on Fox News. He is not a Christian. He is crazy. This decision is unjustifiable. I am writing to change.gov.
nogo postal
· 11 months ago
A couple of things.... You know the Revs words will be vetted... If it is one thing Next President Obama has reflected in his public life.. is his dedication to inclusion...Harvard Republicans,,,and Harvard others were stunned shocked and floored when our Next President Obama actually gave them a voice...
Our political lives have come to embrace the "You are either with us or against us" mind set....the next 4 years will be a challenge.,, We are headed toward a National..and Global weirdness... It will take ALL of us to see it through... It will take visionary leadership beyond what we are used to in our lives. Both the bent and the caring are part of the problem...and can be a part of the solution.
Wrap your mind around a bi-racial man as our Next President. Do you really believe he does not understand...first hand..bigotry? In our White House will be a wife and mother whose heritage includes slavery. Two children...who look black from a distance...Black children will frolic in the Big House...
"Do you really believe he does not understand...first hand..bigotry?"
my guess is that he understands bigotry against racial minorities. does he have the bigger picture? unclear.
btw, do you?
RitornaVincitor
· 11 months ago
As I said when Barack included Donny McClurkin to MC his campaign's Gospel tour, and then said he was just trying to reach out to people on both sides, Barack would never have invited an outspoken member of the KKK to MC one of his campaign events, and he would never have justified it as trying to bring the KKK and the African American community together. Neither will I hear any argument that suggests Barack is somehow trying to be inclusive by allowing an arch-homophobe the honor of giving the invocation at his inauguration. Were Warren an outspoken supporter of the KKK, he would not be getting the time of day from Obama.
Peter
· 11 months ago
I will wait patiently for the next email from Barrack et. al. requesting a donation for the inauguration and simply reply that I will not financially support an event where Rick Warren is given a platform to speak. I think if enough of us did that - the committee may be forced to reconsider it's selection.
Indigo
· 11 months ago
Let's be respectful because it's a Black Event. After all, it was Mormon money and Catholic intrigue that passed Prop 8, not Black Voters. Right?
AdmNaismith
· 11 months ago
That Saddleback guy? He was picked only beacuse someone saw something sympatico between Warren & Obama.
Warren is not a fluke. McClurkin is not a fluke. Wright wasn't even a fluke. Obama clearly likes his ministers bigoted and/or firebreating. This is exactly why I voted for the black lesbian. Why is there a priest at the inauguratrion, anyway? Obama needs to spend more time with his economists and treaury people and NO time with preachers.
mamazboy
· 11 months ago
I wonder who Rick Warren's "gay friends" are? The Log Cabin Republicans, aka the Masochists? Or maybe the guys at the local porn parlor who give him his weekly blowjob? These fucking homophobes and hypocrites have got to go. Everybody - let's marshall hard on this one. Complain complain complain on every website possible! Get on Obama's LGBT liaison. Let them know we GLBT-ers who busted our asses to help get him elected won't roll over for this one.
CCaitlyn
· 11 months ago
You guys remind me of the McCain campaign... all tactics and no strategy. If all you're ever doing is reacting then there's no way you're going to win. Protesting Rick Warren is about as dumb as a dumb move can be because you're playing right into their hands. The Religious Right want to make this a fight about religion. That's the only way they win, by arguing that gay rights is an infringement on their religious rights. The fact is the Bible categorically says homosexuality is a sin, and you arguing that people that believe that should somehow renounce those believes or not agitate in support of those beliefs, they will tell you, is no different than you complaining about them telling you to stop being gay. That argument gets either side nowhere but stasis suits the RR perfectly because they're already where they want to be. The Bible also clearly endorses slavery. The reason most churches even today are still either predominantly white or predominantly black is because MLK never asked white people who used the Bible to justify their bigotry to stop believing what they believed, he never protested a white racist church, he made his protest to the government because the rights he was seeking we're not religious rights based on the eye of the beholder but civil rights enshrined in the constitution. Once again, railing against the RR is exactly what they want because it obfuscates the line between the Bible and the Constitution. Dumb move. Step away from the window and get a strategy.
judybrowni
· 11 months ago
yeah I know. STFU -- gee, I've never heard that one before.
I've just called Feinstein's three offices: how the hell else are the stupid bastards in the Democratic Party supposed to learn, if we don't teach them?
Steve_in_CNJ
· 11 months ago
where do you get the notion that this is about religion? who is protesting a church? this is about pushing back when the president wants to anoint a national homophobe. i don't care if the guy is a druid or a wiccan.
RitornaVincitor
· 11 months ago
First, the Religious Right didn't pick Warren.
Second, the bible says eating shrimp is an abomination. It's right there on the same page with the famous prohibition against gays. The religious right ignores it, along with most of the rest of the bible.
Third, the Log Cabin Republicans have a strategy akin to the one you are espousing. It has gotten them nowhere.
Avaruseget
· 11 months ago
CCaitlyn you forgot to quote the rest of the bible's commentary on gays: "And they shall be put to death." if that's what Warren inspired by i'd be even more sickened
judybrowni
· 11 months ago
DIANE FEINSTEIN HEADED THE COMMITTEE TO CHOOSE WARREN, TELL HER HOW DISGUSTED YOU ARE WITH HER CHOICE: (You won't get through to her Washington Office, answering machine won't take message -- I recommend calling her local offices)
Los Angeles 11111 Santa Monica Blvd., Suite 915 Los Angeles, CA 90025 Phone: (310) 914-7300 Fax: (310) 914-7318
The following counties are served by the Los Angeles office: Los Angeles, Santa Barbara, Ventura.
San Diego 750 B Street, Suite 1030 San Diego, CA 92101 Phone: (619) 231-9712 Fax: (619) 231-1108
The following counties are served by the San Diego office: Orange, Riverside, San Bernardino, Imperial, San Diego.
Fresno 2500 Tulare Street, Suite 4290 Fresno, CA 93721 Phone: (559) 485-7430 Fax: (559) 485-9689
fredndallas
· 11 months ago
From the very beginning, even before the Donnie McClurkin (so called "oops, we didn't know") incident, I smelled homophobia in our next President. I'll hand it to him for being a slick operator ... he danced around Prop 8 very cleverly. And now this. Don't for one moment think that this does not have Obama's endorsement. He is responding to his own screwed up stuff (self-consciousness?) and running the numbers doesn't give him pause.
As for Warren, he is an absolute liar who was caught red handed during his little pumped up self-promoting "debate". He is a media manipulator of the first order and an obvious homophobe, sharing in common some things with Barack. In an interview just published on Beliefnet, he scripturally likened gay marriage to brother and sister marriage and went out of his way to characterize our love as sin and our "condition" as life style choice. He is a sicko theocrazy publishing in sheep's clothing.
When Obama hasn't made one single public acknowledgment of the need to return our country to the constitution nor his promise to do so, you have enough ready evidence of his "style" to know that he is going to do not one thing to progress gay equality that he does not HAVE to do.
Our work is cut out for us. There is as much natural affinity for our equality in him as you can find any Sunday morning in a black church full of insecure women and men suffering the consequences of long oppression -- and fearfully looking for somebody to take it out on.
Chris From Maine
· 11 months ago
once again Obama thumbs his nose at the people who got him elected.
more evidence that there is only one political party, and thats the one with the politicians in it.
Gregory Lyons
· 11 months ago
Well, he has an Israeli spy for his chief of staff, a Republican for his Secretary of War, hawks and war mongers galore all over the place, why not a homophobe?
Boycottutah
· 11 months ago
I feel like we have been screwed by Downlowbama. His direct quote: "I believe marriage is a union between a man and a woman," he said. "Now, for me as a Christian, it is also a sacred union. God is in the mix."
He is just another antigay religious douchebag.
Keith
· 11 months ago
.
What makes Obama’s move foolish, along with the dozens of insults already mentioned, is that these Evangelical “Leaders” come and go with the wind.
To tarnish this timeless historic moment so many sacrificed so greatly, for the sake of bringing the Evangelical Camp into the Obama fold is illogical for this reason:
These so-called leaders appoint themselves, attract a huge following, and inevitably fall from grace with their mega-flock when they fail to uphold their own rigid world-view.
Many of the most prominent charismatic ones who are virtually worshipped by their followers are exposed practicing the very “Sins” they preach against, as the character make-up that enables them to rise to the heights of power also creates a huge weakness in their morality, often leading to secret dual lifestyles.
Why would Obama risk tarnishing a moment that belongs to the world - and the ages - with a spiritual blessing from a here today, gone tomorrow celebrity-style Evangelical Leader?
.
RitornaVincitor
· 11 months ago
That really puzzles me as well. I've long had doubts about Obama's commitment to gay rights, but I've always considered him politically astute. This makes no sense whatsoever to me, unless most Americans have no idea who Warren is, and the media decides to do its usual job on gay people and ignore Warren's homophobia.
Keith
· 11 months ago
RV,
With so many distinguished persons in the entire world he could have selected/approved, why this controversial lightning-rod bozo?
RitornaVincitor
· 11 months ago
That's a very good question. I hope we get some answers.
And may I add that with so many racist and xenophobic bozos in the entire world, why did he have to pick a homophobe?
Bordo
· 11 months ago
A couple of very quick thoughts that likely will not be well-received.
First, Obama is a politician. He does not walk on water or turn water into wine. He's a man who will make decisions that occasionally will dismay many of us. This is one of them. I have no idea what the long view is here, but we all know that he's going to be facing a staggering array of problems thanks to the mis-, mal- and non-feasance of the Bush Administration starting with the economy. Perhaps he really needs the evangelicals to lean on their people in D.C. to pass his programs. I honestly don't know, but he's a smart man. He is not going to tick off a group of supporters without a reason.
Second, my memory of the early Clinton years is not so hot, but wasn't the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" effort a big issue that distracted us from the get-go from all the other plans Clinton had? Maybe Obama's thinking is to walk softly on GLBT issues for a year or two in order to enact other programs. Folks, our nation really is in serious, serious trouble right now on many fronts. The two wars. The faltering economy. The empty treasury. The environmental challenges. And we don't yet have a filibuster proof Senate.
I'm not ready to run the most gifted Democratic politician in a generation out of town based on one decision that really doesn't relate to how he will govern. Let's all take a deep breath.
JohnInTexas
· 11 months ago
I agree...personally I am going to relax, chill, take deep breaths, and see what unfolds...I still have faith in Obama and what he can (CAN) do for the gay community. I will wait and see....remember who he was running against and how bad things COULD be. Take the deep breath and count to ten....and just relax and be patient. This is not the end of the world.
Steve_in_CNJ
· 11 months ago
i get that you don't care that much. fine. but don't varnish the truth. Rick Warren is not "walking softly on GLBT issues". he is trampling us into the dirt. there are thousands of better choices in this country. and don't tell me to take a deep breath. i can already do that better than most people after dealing on a personal level with this sick homophobic culture all my life.
Webster
· 11 months ago
That's right, Miz Parks, you just keep on sittin' at the back of the bus there. Just be patient, you be getting your rights someday. You just keep sittin' there.
RitornaVincitor
· 11 months ago
Try to picture it this way. Would Obama pick an outspoken supporter of the KKK, or any other group that despises African Americans and opposes their rights? If he did, would you be outraged? Or would you say that the nation is in serious, serious trouble and we really have to deal with important matters? And would you say that picking someone who despises African Americans wouldn't relate to how he would govern?
judybrowni
· 11 months ago
Update: Are you looking for someone to email to express your outrage? Well, a well-placed source just provided these email addresses:
I got it too. But Judy, thank you for posting your information.
wmforr
· 11 months ago
Well, you got me wondering who the Parag Mehta was, so before I e-mailed him I did a bit of googling. There are at least half a dozen people in the country with that name. Who's a-thunk?
Dan
· 11 months ago
John, in fairness, shouldn't you point out that Joseph Lowery, who is pro-gay marriage, is delivering the benediction?
RitornaVincitor
· 11 months ago
When Donny McClurkin MCed Obama's Gospel Tour during the campaign, there was an outcry from the gay community. As a result a gay minister was included, and Obama said he was just trying to bring both sides together. Had McCain allowed an outspoken supporter of the KKK to MC one of his events, it would have all been over, even if he included an African American preacher as well. There's a time for being inclusive, and a time for standing up against bigotry and using common sense.
Avaruseget
· 11 months ago
Yeah, why isn't David Duke invited "in fairness"? Obama's black and supports Israel, there needs to be someone to balance that out.
RitornaVincitor
· 11 months ago
Good point. We've now got a screaming homophobe giving the invocation at the inauguration. Shouldn't they also include someone who is antisemitic? And what about someone who despises Mexicans and wants the borders closed?
BobN
· 11 months ago
Joseph Lowery hasn't worked to REMOVE the civil rights of other Americans. This isn't a question of picking someone whose general position is anti-same-sex-marriage. Warren was an ACTIVE participant in the Prop 8 campaign, USED Obama's words in a very dishonest ad, and continues to LIE about what same-sex marriage would do to his free-speech rights.
samiinh
· 11 months ago
From Mark Ambinder: Dr. Rick Warren of Saddleback Church will give the formal invocation at Barack Obama's inauguration. The good pro-life theologian first met Obama in 2006 at a Saddleback AIDS forum in California. Obama used the occasion to press the evangelical pastors present to embrace "realism" when they considered the issue; preach abstience, yes, but preaching against contraception can kill. (Here's some of what Obama said that day: "I know that there are those who, out of sincere religious conviction, oppose such measures. And with these folks, I must respectfully but unequivocally disagree. I do not accept the notion that those who make mistakes in their lives should be given an effective death sentence.")
naschkatzehussein
· 11 months ago
I went over to Obama's new site, A Seat at the Table, and gave them a piece of my mind--if it will do any good. I mentioned that I was not a lesbian but a reader of AmericaBlog and that I felt that they have turned their backs on people who have had nothing but good will for Obama from early in the primaries for people who are never going to be his supporters, no matter what he does. (Of course, if he had a change of heart on reproductive rights or gay and lesbian civil rights, they just might, but that would be selling his soul IMHO.)
Wh0Cares
· 11 months ago
I'm afraid as inauguration day approaches, y'all are going to be highly disappointed in this bought and paid for politician.
Anthony
· 11 months ago
I'm so sick of this "5,000 year tradition" that's getting thrown about these days. Which culture's tradition of marriage are they talking about? For most of the last 5,000 years the purpose of marriage was to enable fathers to sell their daughters. These idiots talk like we have a 5,000 year tradition of 20th century-style nuclear families.
RitornaVincitor
· 11 months ago
Absolutely right. The Old Testament was written in the Bronze Age. What is it about the Bronze Age that they admire so much they want its values honored today? Shall we go back to polygamy and patriarchy? Or shall we just go back a few hundred years to when women were the property of their husbands?
tufdaawg
· 11 months ago
hahaha...that is a really nice "Fuck You" to all of the democrats that voted for him.
Christopher
· 11 months ago
Get over yourselves. The people handed you a prop 8 defeat fair and square. Obama never pretended to be for Gay marriage either, just against making a federal thing about it. He's has to throw a bone to the bible thumpers and Warren is pretty tame compared to Wright,. Pfelgar et all who I'm sure had equally derisive things to say about LGBT's.
Tom B.
· 11 months ago
Maybe Rosa Parks should have gotten over herself, too.
Christopher, I hope some day you'll walk a mile in an LGBT person's shoes.
coolcatdaddy
· 11 months ago
Christopher, if you were here in front of me, I'd be _throwing_ shoes at you.
RitornaVincitor
· 11 months ago
Rather than causing anyone to get over anything, I think your post confirms why people are outraged.
Clevelandchick
· 11 months ago
How is the Mormon Church using hundreds millions of dollars in a state they are not even based in to put on the ballot and influence voters with advertising 'fair and square'? It's not.
Obama's statement on gay marriage was that he believes in equal protection under the law, he just did not want churches sued for refusing to perform services...aka separation of church and state. Not one gay person wants to force a church that does not welcome them to perform their marriage service. There are plenty that will and if not there's always a judge.
And no Warren is not 'tame' compared to Wright. The difference between the two is that Warren puts a false populist persona on religion and Wright actually practiced populist religion that supported gay rights.
You get over yourself. And worry about yourself more than worrying about two consenting adult gay people who just want the same rights under the law as any other tax-paying American citizen.
The reason so many young people turn against religion is because religion as interpreted by insecure egomaniacal men and women publicly is so divisive, petty, and has nothing to do with true spirituality.
Arouete
· 11 months ago
Rubbish. No law can require any church to perform a gay marriage. Can the law require a Catholic priest to perform a marriage ceremony on a divorced couple? Of course not!
"Obama's statement on gay marriage was that he believes in equal protection under the law"? All that statement reveals is that you don't have a clue what 'equal protection' means.
Then it comes to the law I suggest it is best you remain silent and be thought a fool rather than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
davidinchelseama
· 11 months ago
"The people" shouldn't have EVER BEEN ALLOWED TO VOTE ON ANOTHER GROUP'S CIVIL RIGHTS.
Arouete
· 11 months ago
You are right. And for that reason Prop 8 will fall. It's a no-brainer. Our 'activists' are lap dogs but we have great lawyers. WE will prevail "LIKE IT OR NOT." Fear not: Prop H8 comes down.
Arouete
· 11 months ago
“The people handed you a prop 8 defeat fair and square”?
If such comments prove anything they prove the legal ignorance of the speaker. Prop 8 is a house of cards that will come down — and this time (mark my word) by a unanimous (and not a divided) court. Why? Because in American we have agreed (via a constitution and a Bill of Rights) that there are some things you don’t get to vote on — just to protect minorities form the tyranny of the majority. Subject civil rights to a vote? LOL! Any pea-shooter brain can figure out where that would have left Obama or racist Mormons who bamboozled constitutionally ignorant blacks to vote to take away civil rights. Too bad Prop 8 will fall before these bigots feel the venom of their own fangs.
Clevelandchick
· 11 months ago
I went to www.change.gov and told Obama what I thought of Warren as his choice for invocation. As a woman I find this man's spectacularly ignorant position on choice frightening and inexcusable. As the friend to some gay people, I find his support of Prop 8 the same. Obviously Warren has an agenda and that agenda is to foist his interpretation of the bible on a nation that at it's core is secular.
I have gay friends that have passed away who thought they protected their partners with power of attorney and 'iron clad wills' only to have judges overturn the will of the deceased and give everything to the family that disowned them for being gay. It destroys people both financially and emotionally. And there is no way to spin that type of consequence as being right or democratic.
Without legal protection on a national level no gay person will be safe from the prejudices of judges and for many years Dubya has been filling seats in the states with anti-equal rights judges. Ditto for reproductive righs by the way ladies. Tools like Warren cannot be rewarded for their positions and Obama is not 'reaching out' by giving this guy this honor, he is slapping a good portion of the people that busted their asses to get him elected in the face.
Please go to change.gov and send PE Obama a message on this subject.
johanna
· 11 months ago
Hey, shouldn't someone remind Tubby the Preacher that the bible says gluttony is a sin!
warbler
· 11 months ago
Yeah! Let's not let Aretha sing at the inauguration because she's fat too.
LawMichigander
· 11 months ago
I am VERY UPSET ABOUT THIS. Can Obama find a real pastor please and not a fake saddleback born again type one. No more fake religious colleges founded by radio/tv pastors please. There are real religious colleges with real pastors you know.
drswan
· 11 months ago
Watching, am physically ill. Crapped out at 0:43. No can watch. This Dude is a disgrace to Christianity, no, humanity. This homophobic evangelical blowhard references 5000 years of "biblical marriage" -- hey, I've read me some Bible ....women as property, polygamy, concubines... if Obama wants a preacher, why not some truly righteous figure like ++Desmond Tutu, Rev. Peter Gomes or ++K Jefferts Schori ...
Plus, he's oogy. Haggard-oogy. (Shudder)
Taylor
· 11 months ago
Really? Do you have an intellectual bone in your body? I challenge you to find one example, one soundbite of Rick Warren using the kind of ad hominem, personal, mean-spirited trash-talking language about the gay community you are using about him. You act as if people on the other side of the marriage issue have no legitmate points to make. You want what you want and you don't care if you have to trample over other people's rights to get it. Talk about being intolerant.
Scotty
· 11 months ago
"I challenge you to find one example, one soundbite of Rick Warren using the kind of ad hominem, personal, mean-spirited trash-talking language about the gay community you are using about him."
Well, gee Taylor, I'd say when Warren compared same-sex marriage to pedophilia, that would constitute a trash-talking, mean-spirited, ad hominem attack in my book.
petra glyph
· 11 months ago
slap in the face
Sigh
· 11 months ago
You're COMPLETELY ignoring the fact that he chose Joseph Lowery, famed civil rights hero who fully embraces gay rights and gay marriage, to do the benediction. Why no credit there??????
piniella
· 11 months ago
Obama let me down we he voted for the revised FISA bill, the one that gave the telcoms a "get out of jail free" card. This move is just as bad.
BobN
· 11 months ago
"You're COMPLETELY ignoring the fact that he chose Joseph Lowery, famed civil rights hero who fully embraces gay rights and gay marriage, to do the benediction."
Oh? Whose civil rights did Joseph Lowery fight to take away?
Jose Meras
· 11 months ago
Folks, please!!! President-elect Obama hasn't even been sworn in yet. Give Obama a break and let's focus on more pressing issues such as war and peace. Stop whining about Rick Warren giving the invocation.
Juan Carlos Jimenez
· 11 months ago
Don't call civil rights a less pressing issue, please. While "war and peace" are pressing issues, don't put civil rights on the back burner. This country is capable of dealing with more than one or two issues at a time.
Dr. Bob
· 11 months ago
I am gay and have been a gay activist for 30 years and I say BRAVO, Obama! It's about time we had a president who is not an ideologue and can go beyond embracing only those based on "loyalty" or agreement on all issues. Isn't that what Reagan and Bush did? In picking Warren to simply give a prayer based on common ground, Obama makes a statement that as people we are much more alike than we are different. He is not agreeing with Warren's political positions, nor should we fear he does. This sets the stage for Obama to challenge existing homophobic government policies with congress on a similar basis. It greatly increases his credibility in arguing for LGBT equal rights and the elimination of DoMA and DADT. Obama has indeed changed politics as usual already. This is not the "your with me or your against me" politics of the Bushes or the Clinton's for that matter. It's a brilliant move of inclusion, which he can build on to advocate for LGBT rights. If he can include Warren, he can include us, and isn't it inclusion that we as LGBT people have been asking for all along?
tlsintx
· 11 months ago
why not let Fred Phelps give the invocation then? That wouldn't be agreeing with Phelps' wonderful message that GOD HATES FAGS... Phelps has more hideous integrity than Warren anyway. Warren pretends to be accepting and open and tolerant, when he's not. Phelps just lays the hate out there.
dula
· 11 months ago
Why not let the head of the KKK give a few words in the spirit of inclusion.
Arouete
· 11 months ago
Enjoy your Weimar moment. He is not ‘including” Warren but elevating him to a pulpit in the public square and that is a distinction with a very real difference. What part of Jefferson’s word “WALL” doesn’t America get? Weimar comments like this are not a solution but part of the problem and they demonstrate that ‘activist’ watchdogs are little more than lap dogs who today march backwards in lockstep on two left feet.
I feel like I have had all the hope and life sustaining fluid squeezed out of me. I worked my guts out for Obama, wrote letters to the papers, spoke out loud and clear about his honesty and now this. Bad enough that he appointed Duncan and now promoting this Warren piece of trash.
The corrupt Bible thumping Far Right are the ones that have put America in a hole and he is kissing up to Warren?
I am not gay, so don't anyone hop on my statment and try to make something of it. This scum hides behind the Bible and preaches hate for gays and has no concern for women. He is the kind who says it is terrible to not let the unborn come to life, but okay to go into Iraq and kill millions of the innocent living.
I can see right now Obama is going to promote Bible thumpers, not just let them believe as they choose (which is their right), but by promoting this crumb, he is going to let them continue to push their evil religious business on everyone without calling them on it.
So-called Religion, with the Faulwell/Dobson and many others has been and is operating the largest business going. Big, big money maker and they sell evil as they make that big money. They laugh all the way to the bank and keep their sheep feeding them by playing the fear game to them.
Another note, it sounds like we will be getting more charter schools now with the Duncan apointment. Think there won't be more so-called religious schools?
I have proved over the years that I can read people real well and on short order, but it looks like I have really messed up with my read on Obama. Maybe I need to give him slack and wait a while, but it doesn't look good now. Damn, who can we trust to do the right thing??? Dewey Funkhouser
Karen
· 11 months ago
Re: "I have proved over the years that I can read people real well and on short order, but it looks like I have really messed up with my read on Obama."
I pegged him right from the beginning and I got called a racist when I wouldn't get on the bandwagon. Instead of listening to his speeches, I studied his voting record.
dula
· 11 months ago
Well then you must have voted for Cynthia McKinney because Hillary's voting record was almost the same as Obama's...though she had far more time (experience) at being corrupted. The only choice was Obama unfortunately and he's proving to be a sellout faster than Hillary...it took her a decade to learn how to put her career ahead of the People.
Arouete
· 11 months ago
Pulease! Gimmie a break. I am only surprised you are all surprised. What in the name of Buddha did you expect folks? Barack Obama stood on a gay jim crow platform of ‘separate but equal” and he openly, unequivocally, and shamelessly had the audacity to promise that he’d violate the First Amendment (Separation Church and State) for the nefarious purpose of denying a ‘fundamental' civil right guaranteed under the Fourteenth Amendment's ‘due process' and ‘equal protection' provisions. Pardon me folks but that is not one constitutional violation but two. Since the right to secular marriage is also found in the substantive Right of Privacy that’s THREE constitutional violations.
And the people who now complain are the same confederacy of constitutional dunces who marched backwards in lockstep on two left feet. Activists? Pulease. When we needed watch dogs the LGBT 'activists" who marched in lock-step acted like lap dogs. No one held his feet to the fire! No one called him out in the press. You all kissed his _ass. And now that he is keeping a promise made to you all of you cry foul? What unmitigated rubbish! This might be a good place to vomit. You got what you asked for. You are getting what he promised. This is what you voted for, no secrets, no surprises, no misunderstandings and he made no mistake about it. Revelation trumps reason. Religion is the ONLY stated reason this so called 'civil rights lawyer' has ever given for denial a ‘fundamental’ civil right. Legal reason? Oh no. Don’t ask this ‘civil rights lawyer’ for legal reasons. Enjoy the ride in your new Jim Crow railroad car on Obama’s Freedom Train. If the ride gets a bit bumpy on the back of the bus remember: this is what you were promised. And you were NOT tricked!
This is not news. You were warned ... nay you were promisedthis. Why are you all complaining that he is doing exactly as promised? See "Untangling Barack Obama's audacious mumbo jumbo," http://ebar.com/common/inc/article_print.php?se...
“[W]hen politicians ostentatiously proclaim their "deep faith" and march their preachers into the public square promulgating religion as their sole excuse for denying civil rights, then we should, in the spirit of Voltaire, have but one response: Ecrasez l'infame!!!!"
Dr. Bob, are you kidding me!?! Maybe you think Obama should invite the Klan to his Inauguration Ball for some all-inclusive, reaching-out -to- the- other- side partying. If Obama wants to reach out to a sexist and heterosexist bigot like Warren he should invite him to the Oval Office for a dialogue -- not give him a forum or an honored role at his inauguration, which sends a horrible message to all Americans. I am so disgusted with this decision that I may cancel plans to attend. Oh, and I'M NOT gay -- just a strong Obama supporter/campaigner who was giving him some slack for not supporting gay marriage until he got educated on this issue, but this decision is appalling. The only thing that will be worse is his ignoring the outcry against it, which will refute his statements about supporting civil rights, instituting "change," and listening to legitimate criticism. I urge everyone to speak out for justice and object to this just plain WRONG decision. Let's hope its a "mistake" that will be corrected and not the very bad sign it appears to be, that Obama really doesn't get it, when it comes to equal rights for everyone. Oh, and Jose Meras, what makes you think "issues of war and peace" is more important than this? It isn't.
Arouete
· 11 months ago
It's no mistake Amy. It's a promise kept. I don't think anyone who has been paying any serious attention and who has a thimble full of legal knowledge has a right to cry foul. The LGBT Community marched in lockstep behind a man who now keeps his promise to deny a 'fundamental' secular right in the name of religion. http://ebar.com/common/inc/article_print.php?se...
PensiveGadfly
· 11 months ago
You go girl! I am so thrilled that Obama beat McCain (and Palin) I can hardly stand it. But even so, picking this small-minded man is a great disappointment.
That being said, I was expecting to be disappointed sooner or later, so lets hope this is the big one and things will improve. Hey, a guy can hope.
Arouete
· 11 months ago
In the words of a true Freedom Rider whose legacy Obama denigrates and whose wisdom he audaciously abjures,
"I've heard the reasons for opposing civil marriage for same-sex couples. Cut through the distractions, and they STINK of the same FEAR, HATRED, and INTOLERANCE, I have known in racism and in BIGOTRY." (Rep. John Lewis (D-GA), (Boston Globe, 11/25/03.) (Emphasis added.)
Obama does not heed their rising voices and he abjures the wisdom of those most fit to instruct because the very marriage rights Obama has were paid for by the blood, sweat, and tears of the towering leaders he now turns his back on.
Amy Bookbinder
· 11 months ago
I must agree here, Aroute. Sadly, Reverend Wright is another example. I haven't been this disappointed with Obama since he turned his back on him. The sad reality is that he wouldn't have been elected, if he hadn't, but enough is enough... he's in now and its time for him to stand up.
Arouete
· 11 months ago
What do you mean stand up? He just rolled over. And btw, the Rev. Wright does support marriage equality and is so listed at the NBJC web site. Indeed Obama’s denomination (UCC) supports marriage equality. When Obama was enjoying the shelter of the finest prep schools and Ivy League colleges affirmative could buy I was spilling my blood on the cold streets of Chicago so that he and his wife could enjoy their civil rights unmolested – all he leaves me with is the dent in my nose from a police baton. And now that I have spilled blood for him what does he offer me? Gay jim crow ‘separate but equal’ civil unions as a certificate of second class citizenship. “HOW SHARPER THAN A SERPENT’S TOOTH IS IT TO HAVE A THANKLESS CHILD!!!
Nothing personal I’m sure. It’s religion you see. Another perfect example of Christopher Hitchens’ comment that “religion poisons everything.”
mattycakes
· 11 months ago
We all have to inundate Pres.Elect Obama's transition team website. This is unacceptable. Another "reglious" zealot, trying to take away people's free will. It is time Amercan Stood up, and DEMAND Human Rights!
Winston Johnson
· 11 months ago
Rick Warren???? Unbelievable!!!!!! Every LGBT person I know gave money until it hurt, to Obama's campaign and did everything they could to help him get to the White House. Does the President-Elect not GET IT that the kinds of words that Rick Warren uses about us continue to stigmatize LGB T people in such a way that many, including myself 46 years ago, almost committed suicide when I turned 20. The last thing that vulnerable young people who may just be dealing with their sexuality need to see at this historical inagural is this homophobic bigot standing next to the new President. I had a partner for 42 years and cared for him 24/7 during his last 6 years of Parkinson's disease when he couldn't even feed himself. We were as married as any two people ever were, we just never received the respect or benefits that we should have.
The California supreme court decided that it was unconstitutional in 1948 to deny marriage to people of different races. If there had be a proposition then put up for popular vote it would definitely been overturned. The Bill of Rights is supposed to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. When the US Supreme court decided that "separate but equal" schools were inherently UNEAQUAL, in 1954, should that been put to a vote of the majority? The majority of Americans would certainly have opted to continue segregated schools. In fact in order to do just that, religious schools, expecially Christian, started sprouting all over America in the 60s. Wake up people religion IS THE PROBLEM.
Arouete
· 11 months ago
Yes Winston. You get it right. You nailed it to the wall. But none of this should come as news. Fear not, Prop 8 comes down. Check my comments here and you will understand. Prop h8 is a house of cards. It falls. But none of this conversation about Obama is news. See "Untangling Barack Obama's audacious mumbo jumbo," at http://ebar.com/common/inc/article_print.php?se... . Our community marched backward in lockstep on two left feet. We are not betrayed but ony getting what was promised. ‘But they were not listening then. They’re not listening still. Perhaps they never will.’
okojo
· 11 months ago
I am going to write stuff that is not very popular....
First, calm down. He is doing the invocation, he isn't going to do policy. Rev. Rick Warren won't be in charge of DADT policy, or funding global birth control programs. The Obama Administration isn't going to have idiotic Gay Marriage bans on the ballot in states for voter turnouts as the Bush Administration did in 2000, 2004, 2006 and 2008.
This is a political move to placate dunderheads, and meth heads who are on the wagon who have read "Purpose Driven Life".
Personally, I can't stand the guy. He is an ignorant tosser. However Obama is trying to get appeal to some trailer park residents, and others in the burbs who actually will swallow Rev. Warren's tripe.
With any politicians, ignore their rhetoric at times, and follow their actions. I highly doubt that Warren gets more than a thank you, and drools over the national exposure, but the Obama Administration is going to do 180 of what Rev. Warren wants to be done, whether it is reproductive rights and access, like RU-486. Repeal DADT, writie amicus briefs for separation of church and state...
I think that as much we want Obama to be a liberal and progressive and wear it on his shirtsleeve, he is a politician that has to build coalitions.
TessaSummersbee
· 11 months ago
Oh this doesn't surprise me in the least. I stopped reading Americablog when you started attacking Hillary and Bill Clinton in order to show your support for Obama during the primary. You threw the Clintons under the bus without a second thought and called them racists, etc. It was shameful. Now the chickens have come home to roost. Obama is throwing you under the bus. You've been bamboozled. You know, given the old okie doke. Change indeed!
SensibleSam
· 11 months ago
B.S. Hillary Clinton threw gay people under the bus long ago with her refusal to condemn DoMA in its entirety. Obama has shown clear support for LGBT people by words and actions. It's appalling to see LGBT people condemn inclusion. What now? If we can't beat 'em, we join 'em? Obama should never exclude those he disagrees with, but use his wise choice of inclusion to eventually prevail in the disagreement . I hope that we, as gay people, could be as smart and compassionate as he.
Al
· 11 months ago
Hillary did condemn it, moron!
Obama has been more anti-gay than Hillary ever was. Even she isn't stupid enough to make the comments he did.
Obama told us that it was our problem that he chose an ex-gay to speak at all his stump speeches, allowing him to proclaim that he was cured of his disease. Even Patti LaBell went apeshit over this, and said Obama should have used her, and not some bigot.
SensibleSam
· 11 months ago
Check you facts, Hillary Clinton was very late in saying she would repeal DoMA and condemned it long after Obama did, and once she did, she was NEVER in favor of complete repeal of it. Stop trying to make her look good. On gay rights, she was a master of strategic triangulation along with Bill. Obama has already appointed an lesbian to a cabinet team, and his inclusiveness goes beyond words, obviously. The readiness to condemn Obama only speaks to the intolerance in the LGBT community, maybe this is why we have failed so miserably in a our every attempt succeed at the ballot box. The LGBT responses here are very revealing of our own smallness as a community.
SensibleSam
· 11 months ago
This is a different "drbob" here than the one earlier, but I could not agree with him more. Obama is about a new politics that's NOT about "us vs them." That approach has solved nothing. As gay people we cannot be haters or excluders, we have suffered too much of both. To do that would be to become that, no. Asking Warren to participate along with pro gay ministers is a display of Obama's humanity which I'm sure as gay people we will all benefit from. In fact his invitation to the LGBT band and appointment of an openly lesbian member to his environmental team is proof. The "outrage" here is a dangerous legacy of the past which has only served to divide and defeat us,. In fact, I believe that many anti Obama people are posting here and speaking elsewhere to take advantage of this to diminish Obama.
dula
· 11 months ago
Then I guess you would be fine with Obama inviting a very vocal racist and an anti-semite to the table? Seriously?
Arouete
· 11 months ago
Tolerating intolerance is precisely what fueled the Wiemar Republic. When we tolerate intolerance both toleration and the tolerant are destroyed. Only intolerance is left standing.
Arouete
· 11 months ago
Mankind will never be free until the last politician is strangled by the entrails of the last preacher. America lives and breaths through a Constitution and a Bill of Rights that protects minorities from majority tyranny. It is the job of an independent judiciary to enforce those rights against that tyranny. Our laws are founded on reason and experience and not the blood-soaked book of a Bronze Age nomadic tribe. Mr. Jefferson. Build up this wall! In the spirit of Voltaire, have but one response: Ecrasez l'infame!
Al
· 11 months ago
Obama has given the Right everything they wanted. It all started with FISA.
The Obama appologists are now going to be squashed. It's over. Obama is going to ensure that he only lasts one term. Democrats, Liberals, and Progressives are not putting up with this bullshit. He is now letting religion run our government. No one is twisting Obama's arm to do this.
If he goes through with this, kiss 2012 goodbye. We're not supporting him.
Craig
· 11 months ago
Intolerance breeds intolerance. If Obama can't talk with those we disagree with, how do you expect things to improve ? Without civil discourse, we do not have a democracy!!! The Republicans have proven that since Reagan/Lee Atwater. Obama's strategy is clear- get people talking/listening to each other respectfully, and maybe some tolerance and understanding will follow
Bob Schwartz
· 11 months ago
The gay leadership made no demands on candidate Obama, and now President-elect Obama continues to slight a constituency that hardly warrants his attention.
Joe Solmonese led the gang of gay leaders who uncritically backed the man who opposed our basic civil right to marry, and now feigns outrage when Obama gives him the back of his hand? He's been doing it all along, Joe.
RIChris
· 11 months ago
Obama never hid the fact that he opposes gay marriage, that he, himself is a homophobe. So, why the fuss?
Too many Democrats pretended Obama was what they wanted him to be.
Steve Cornell
· 11 months ago
This blog gives new meaning to angry hateful venom from people who view themselves as progressive, enlightened and tolerant! Wow! Talk about over the top irrational reaction. I am waiting for the chant "Crucify! Crucify!" for Rick Warren. Tolerance? Hardly! More like hate!
Most people recognize the need for some laws restraining some types of sexual behavior (e.g. rape, incest, sexual contact between adults and children). We do not approve sexual behavior simply because a person desires it or feels it to be natural to himself.
Although I believe that heterosexual behavior is the God-intended design for human beings, I do not believe that all heterosexual behavior is acceptable (adultery is one example of wrongful heterosexual conduct). The truth is that we can be physiologically/biologically inclined toward many different types of behavior but such impulses should not be used to define personhood.
wmforr
· 11 months ago
Then why don't you put up several million dollars to pass an amendment taking away the civil rights of adulterers? Leave me and mine alone.
LOLASMOM
· 11 months ago
Then if you believe that heterosexual behavior is the chosen way, why so many priests are Gay? And what is God to do with them?
GIve me a a break Rev. You people should clean up the church of so many abusers, stop covering it up. You should have no time to blog!
I am a straight married woman, who is offended by the church business, taking advantage oif the innocent , do nothing but pass the plate every week, recession or not.
Younity
· 11 months ago
Hmmm. I am a prominent pastor. I have reason to believe that the marriage of black people to white people is wrong and think I can find scripture that gives me the certainty that I'm right. Let's get together and take away the right to marry somebody of different color, vote on it and call it democracy. And then let me speak at the inauguratation. Hope nobody minds.
LOLASMOM
· 11 months ago
The Rev. WARREN is a sliz ball. His behavior in the so called interviews with McCain and Obama during the campaign was nothing short of a setup for Obama. Why he would choose him of all available clergy to deliver the Invocation is dumb founding.
This Rev. as all the others like him, is A BIGGOT.
I am so disappointed in this choice. Maybe Obama is, as his pastor put it, a POLITICIAN FIRST, after all.
peggy
· 11 months ago
I am shocked on the stand of rick warren Its time for equal rights for all people We are all Gods children Women have just begin to have rights lets not go backwards there is times like rape a women should have choice for abortion
Julie
· 11 months ago
"Good cases make bad law." Seriously, have you EVER known a woman who had an abortion due to a verified rape? I know hundreds of women who have had abortions, and they were all from consensual sex.
Megan
· 11 months ago
Since when is AIDS simply a gay issue?
Gay Issue
· 11 months ago
Aids is a gay issue in America since the OVERWHELMING majority of those affected in the USA are gays. Even gay "leaders" have called it a "gay issue"
Mary
· 11 months ago
Totally agree with Tessa Summersbee. And today Andrew Sullivan is trying to claim that Obama is still not as bad as the Clintons in terms of gay rights. He is smoking crack - New Yorkers know that Hillary Clinton has done more for the gay community in New York than any politician in the state's history. And gays with an ounce of self-respect knew Clinton was the only candidate who was proud to stand up for their rights. Obama is all about Obama and he doesn't give a crap about gay rights. Still, I'm sorry for all of the people who believed him and are being let down by him now.
Julie
· 11 months ago
That's because Hillary is still a practicing lesbian, while Obama's foray into homosexuality was a casual thing.
Hawaiianstyle
· 11 months ago
I hope I am wrong, but I am beginning to think Obama is getting a little over confident. If he continues to test the left of his support someday they will say sorry no more, done, finished. At that point Obama will be shocked and have a hard time getting back to his present popularity.
Trust is like an ice cube, once it melts its hard to get it back.
Obama is on track to learn this. I personally have arrived at the. "Wot brah? Wot chu like do? Be popular or be good Prez?". I voted for a good President not a legacy fame builder. I am sure getting nervous.
Diane
· 11 months ago
I am not gay but am indignant about the choice of a bigoted person to give, of ALL things, the INVOCATION at the Inauguration! That's going TOO FAR, Barak.
Brian
· 11 months ago
Sorry, but disagreeing on gay marriage is not "bigoted". That is the problem with most of the left, if you don't hew to the orthodoxy you're not just wrong, you're a bigot. Obama is not for gay marriage either, is he a bigot? Give me a break. This move is exactly what Obama promised to when we voted for him. People who disagree with us are not evil. just wrong.
MontanaLW
· 11 months ago
But would Obama invite an avowed racist to give his inaugural invocation? I think not. He, like many Americans think that it is still okay to bash gays. . .Oh, and discriminating against them is okay, too. Warren's church will not allow gay people to attend. . .Unless they repent! Repenting one's natural and genetic dispostiion? Now that's more than a minor disagreement with "progressives." That's an affront to every human being.
KR
· 11 months ago
Brian, Rick Warren has not merely disagreed on the issue of gay marriage but chooses to characterize LGBT people as incestuous pedophiles. THAT is what is bigoted. Please don't pretend this is just about a policy position on gay marriage. It is about fundamentally and falsely denigrating a group in order to rationalize discrimination against them when it comes to basic human and civil rights. The marriage issue is just one issue. The dehumanizing characterizations perpetuated by Rick Warren and others ARE bigoted. Further, it is a false issue. Since I do believe in the separation of Church and State upon which this country is presumably predicated, it is not for me to tell you what marriage is, nor for you to tell me. The fact is I am married to my partner no matter what you say, nor what rights the State does or not bestow on me and my partner that it bestows on married couples of opposite sexes. So, if this is about "defining" marriage, that ship has simply sailed...we all have our definitions within our respective faith and belief communities, regardless of what the State does or does not recognize. BUT there are bundles of rights associated with "marriage" at the level of the State that it unfairly accrue only to opposite sex couples who deem themselves to be married. Quite frankly, I think "marriage" should simply be dropped as a term within the civil state altogether and that all unions should be treated as "civil unions." That takes the religious definition of "marriage" out of the public sphere where it doesn't belong. As long as "marriage" is in the public/State sphere is is a kind of institutionalized "bigotry" as it clearly imposes specific religious groups view of what constitutes a "marriage" on anyone who does not share that belief. That is, indeed, a bigoted tyranny of the majority in a State that is supposed to be separate from Church.
Andrew Hochberg
· 11 months ago
Vis-a-vis gay rights, Obama is Clinton. Sooner or later, he's going to tell gays & lesbians "I feel your pain." The one thing that will happen is that the military will allow gays & lesbians to serve openly. That is already happening, Obama really can't take credit for it. But he will take credit for it, & act like he's actually done something for gays & lesbians. But he won't whatsoever. Time is the only answer. Among other influences, Americans will have to see gays & lesbians die for a few decades before they'll let them live.
deldell
· 11 months ago
Some people think that just because Rick Warren acts nice, and speaks with that "aw shucks" tone in his voice that he must be a nice guy, just wrong on some of the issues. Rick warren is an extremist with very extreme views. The religious right exerts a huge influence in America because they have learned marketing techniques, along with the Republicans. Read the transcripts of his interviews. Some of the things he says are really ugly. Just because a person says he nice doesn't mean that he IS nice.
you're an @sswipe avarosis
· 11 months ago
you and andrew sullivan are shitheads
thanks for being on the cutting edge of supporting the next homophobic agenda and homophobe apologist. thanks. the rest of our community deserved better than your school-boy crush and denial. fuck you shithead.
Teresa
· 11 months ago
You supported him. Weren't your eyes open then? Mine where, and I knew what he was.
You get what he paid for when he advertised with you. Now you're suprised? Puh-lease.
Nothin
· 11 months ago
Love Poem:
I'm a man I have a girlfriend She calls me her husband I call her my wife The government doesn't know this Oh, no I think I'm a homophobe
Julie
· 11 months ago
It's a disappointment to Christians as well. It's tacit approval of Obama's presidency. He should have refused the invitation. Why in the world isn't Obama's pastor Wright giving the invocation? "Gee, I'll attend your church for 20+ years, become close friends with you, share my secrets and my burdens, but I'm trying to pick up the young, white evangelical vote for next time so sorry, let me distance myself from you." Obama is a fraud. Everyone will know sooner or later. The GLBT community simply wasn't in the "sooner" crowd.
Rix
· 11 months ago
I am deeply disappointed in Obama for his lack of judgement in this matter. There is no doubt in my mind that this is a slap in the face for the LGBT community. As a gay man, I pride myself on being tolerant of people who have different views to mine. I do not shout from the rooftops about my sexuality. I have never felt strongly pro or con gay marriage. But on hearing this news, I felt a deep and raw anger. I am totally sick of the bigotry of certain Americans and wish we were as open and progressive as many countries in Europe. And yes, I believe that being gay is akin to the race struggles. I feel compelled to fight and protest this injustice more now than ever before and I feel many other LGBTs will feel the same way. Maybe the only positive thing that will come out of this will be an unified gay activism and willingness to fight for our rights, rather than lie down and take it like pansies that have led us to this point.
p1pelin3
· 9 months ago
Listen at that, will ya: "I pride myself on being tolerant of people who have different views to mine.". Then, next sentence: "I am totally sick of the bigotry of certain Americans".
You mean you're not tolerant of the 53% of the voting populace that somehow <gasp> equate marriage to procreation?
With every passing hour I become more 'n more convinced that liberals have a fatally misconstrued definition of "tolerance". And it hits its nadir with gay liberals.
Matt Sanchez
· 11 months ago
Abortion is far worse then the Holocaust. 6 million compared to the 40 million in the US alone. Good for Rick Warren for sticking up for the truth and not pandering to the gay agenda
RollieB
· 11 months ago
What exactly is "The Gay Agenda"? Equal rights?
Susan Olsen
· 11 months ago
Let me start my objection to Rick Warren with the following passage from Thomas Jefferson's description of how America's first documents were drafted: "Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read, "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected BY A GREAT MAJORITY, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and Infidel of every denomination."
The minister (yes, he is a minister) who could truly deliver an invocation that would inspire everyone, yet insult no one, is Bill Moyers. Please, please, Mr. Obama, change your mind. This is more than YOUR inauguration, it is OURS. Didn't you say at the Democratic Convention that this election was not about you, but about us?
Amber
· 11 months ago
Rick's position on gay marriage mirrors Obama's position. Your beef should be with Barack. He agrees with Rick on this issue.
Why is it if you don't agree with gay marriage you are automatically a homophobe. The bible is pretty clear that gay marriage is not accepted. Why is it so important to get married? What rights are you missing out on exactly? You can set up a legal contract that will give you any of the rights of a married couple. Is it the right to file for divorce you are looking for or is it the right to desicrate something that is sacred to others? Maybe it is the marriage penalty tax you are interested in. Is it about health insurance? Most insurance policies offer single plus one now. I applaud Obama and I hope he doesn't cave in. Abortion is an abomination. Should the child pay for the sins of the parents. What about birth control and adoption. What if your mother had aborted you? As far as repenting before going to church last I knew you could not receive communion in the Catholic church without joining and going to confession. I guess that makes the pope a bigot against all non-catholics. Having rules does not make you a bigot. The only group it is still ok to bash are Christians of any religious affiliation. Just ask all of those calling us bigots....
RitornaVincitor
· 9 months ago
Leviticus was written 3,400 years ago. You don't follow its teachings any more than we do. No one does. If you are going to practice what you preach, start by not cutting the hair at your temples. Give up pork and shrimp. Stone a few people to death for blasphemy. Take several wives at once. Make sure they shout out "unclean" during their monthly period, and take some turtle doves to the high priest when it ends. Make sure they never allow any utensil or plate that has ever touched meat to touch a dairy product. Throw away your stove or oven if a rodent ever comes in contact with it. Burn any family members you catch cheating on their spouses. Kill anyone who sleeps with a neighbor. Take some slaves, and leave them to your children in your will. Be sure to pay 50% less for the women. Feel free to have sex with them. (Just the women!) Kill your children if they curse you. Don't plant more than one kind of food crop in your garden. Stone to death a magician. Never touch a football or anything made from pig. Don't let your wife go to church for 40 days after having a baby - Make that 60 days if it's a girl. No statues or carved images of any kind. Don't go to any church if the minister is a hunchback. Eat nothing with blood in it. And throw away that cotton/poly blend shirt. Now you are just starting to follow Leviticus. Otherwise forget about selectively quoting Bronze Age texts to others and get with the times.
And do you really think a gay person will "desicrate" (sic) marriage? The desEcration of marriage does not come from gay people seeking to partake and honor the institution of marriage. It comes from the Evangelicals (who have the highest divorce rate in America, by the way) banning together to strike down 18,000 perfectly legitimate marriages that already exist by simply walking into a voting booth and voting yes on a proposition. Gay people didn't try to invalidate 18,000 marriages. Folks like you did. Congratulations on your defense of marriage. Marriages can now be canceled not only by divorce, but by perfect strangers in secret. Good work.
Leon Freeman
· 11 months ago
As a moderate Democrat, and an Obama supporter, the comments amuse me and are characteristic of those who feel that we should live in an "open and inclusive" America except for when it comes to Christians who disagree on moral choices. They should be kept silent. Rick Warren has expressed his opinion concerning homosexuality which is strikingly similar to the Catholic view that the act of homosexuality intercourse is sinful. Period. No more sinful than any other sin. He does not single out homosexuality as being more sinful nor does he campaign against the homosexual community, however, the gay community reciprocates with a campaign against him?
Friends, this is a prayer---not a sermon. Billy Graham has prayed at several inaugurations, for both Democrat and Republican presidents and he is also soundly pro-life. President elect Obama has taken a huge step in demonstrating his determination to not play the political game as it has been played before and the very people who should understand inclusion are those who are protesting his choice. Shame on you. If you expected a president who would cater to your every whim, hopefully, you will be sorely displeased. We've had years of that kind of leadership and pray that Obama will lead differently.
Steve Kendall
· 11 months ago
As a homosexual man your negitive comment doesn't surpripe me . I would like to remind you that homosexual men and women provide many of the goods and services that people like you enjoy. We also pay income taxes every april 15th as you do. We work in every walk of life. Many like myself are Vietnam vets who put our lives on the line defending this country. In fact my military career spans 24 years all together. What have you done for your country Leon? Maybe homosexual men and women should stop providing all these goods and services. Maybe we should stop filing our income taxes every year. Better yet why just not take away all the rights and privliges hetrosexuals have in marriage. At least there would then be a level playing field which is all we ever wanted. You guys are just angry and bitter than someone else will have something that up till now you have had a monopoly on. You can't find any other way to punish us for something we have no xcontroll over so you will punish us this way. I did not ask to be homosexcual but God gives you what he gives you and you make the best of it. As far as Rick Warren is concerned heis a bigot plane and simple. He equates homosexuals with poligimists and pedophiles. You alsohave to remenber that although the left has always been willing to reach out accross the isle the right represented by Pastor Warren have and never will do likewise. In any case I will be one who will not be watching the inaguration cerimonies. Wake up and smell the coffee Leon.
RitornaVincitor
· 9 months ago
So homosexuality is no more sinful than any other sin, like incest, pedophilia, murder.... Well thank you so much!!
Billy Graham was the first preacher with the presumption to insult all non-christians by invoking Jesus at an inauguration. Shame on him. Shame on Warren. Shame on you.
p1pelin3
· 9 months ago
You sound like a sniveling little 3rd grader. Methinks you need to get over yourself -- if you honestly somehow feel you've just been called a murderer (which more than smacks of hyperbole).
Why is it that those most loudly clamoring for 'tolerance' always seem to sound like you do? That is, the very definition of intolerant. (Not to mention pedantic and narrow-minded).
RitornaVincitor
· 9 months ago
ROTF! So let's see. As a gay man I don't appreciate being called sinful. Therefore, according to you, I am a pedantic, narrow-minded, sniveling little 3rd grader who needs to get over himself. Oh, and I'm intolerant. Not you. Me. Well I shall certainly put that on my list of items to seriously consider one fine day.
BTW, when a poster such as myself suddenly receives from a number of different aliases a bunch of off the wall replies filled with the same kind of slightly crazed over-caffeinated insult-laden hyperbole all posted within the same short time frame, he could understandably jump to the conclusion that they are in fact all coming from the same individual.
Leon Freeman
· 11 months ago
I'm amazed, Steve, at how you automatically assume that I'm against gay marriage because I am speaking up for Obama's right to choose someone who doesn't agree with him on every issue to pray at the inauguration. Please don't cloud the issue by proclaiming that you are somehow special because you do what Americans from every background have done for centuries. You refer to Rick Warren as being a bigot, and my friend, you are the real bigot here. Because someone disagrees with you on a religious basis and fails to affirm every aspect of your life, you go on a rampage against him. It's interesting, but you and people such as Rush Limbaugh have so much in common that it is uncanny. You simply cannot tolerate people who disagree with you. Rick Warren's disapproval of aspects of your lifestyle do not indicate that he hates you as a person or doesn't appreciate what you do or have done. Can you get that? Or is that kind of openness and tolerance so foreign to you that you simply don't understand?
Leon
RitornaVincitor
· 9 months ago
That kind of "openness and tolerance" led Rick Warren to compare me to a pedophile and other criminals. It also led him to support the proposition that would invalidate my perfectly legal and valid marriage to the man I have shared my life with for almost 25 years. Maybe you can understand that as tolerance and openness. I can't.
p1pelin3
· 9 months ago
On Rick Warren: " He has repeated the Religious Right's big lie that supporters of equality for gay Americans are out to silence pastors."
So -- we need to keep him from speaking at the Inauguration.
Absolutely fucking priceless. Still waiting to meet that non-hypocritical Liberal....
All Comments
It would take massive public pressure to force Obama to dis-invite Rick Warren, but it can be done. We need to go viral with Warren's most offensive statements, such as agreeing with Sean Hannity about killing foreign leaders and his equation of gays with pedophiles. I'm sure Obama has been too busy since the election to notice the avalanche of crazy coming from Warren lately...at least I hope.
Register your disappointment and anger at Change.gov:
http://change.gov/page/content/contact/
In case you forgot, Lowery became famous to us bloggers when he spoke at Coretta Scott King's funeral, right in front of George W. Bush, and said this:
Conservatives were highly pissed at this remark, while liberals cheered. Obama should just have Lowery do the invocation in addition to whatever speaking role he has.
And yes, the pressure should go not only to Obama, but to the Congressional committee that selected Warren without doing their background on his odious statements regarding gays, torture, the assassination of foreign leaders, etc.
This is outrageous. Why should there even be an invocation at all? It's not as though we don't have separation of church and state...
There are tens of thousands of available clergymen and clergywomen from which to choose who would not offend.
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/12/...
So find the congresscritter who chairs the joint committee and beat on that individual.
Rather a spritz of Black Flag or Raid would be more appropriate.
Really, the worst move he could have made. Just beneath him.
He is the leader of a mainstream church that has always been a leader in the struggle for justice and equality for ALL people throughout their history and throughout the history of the USA.
Thomas would be an excellent choice even if he weren't the president of Obama's denomination. The fact that he is makes him an even more obvious choice.
I agree with others here. Warren is the absolute WORST possible choice for this honor.
JUST TELL ME.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL7FcvEydqg
News flash: Obama is not a friend to teh gays!!! Also this hour: Water found to be wet and sun anticipated to rise in the east.
he hunted witches in Africa (you know the country of Africa as opposed to the continent).
While some may see Warren’s inclusion as an example of tolerance, I view it as an endorsement of intolerance.
I’ve been an active and avid supporter of President-elect Obama, and generally subscribe to his efforts to bridge the social divide. However, there is a significant difference between being willing to listen to opposing viewpoints and putting one’s imprimatur on the message. Obama’s choice of Warren delivers the latter.
G'moms
It's time to accept that the President-elect isn't going to do anything Earth-shattering in terms of pro-gay legistlation in his first term. He's appealing to everyone and when you do that, you piss off some people sometimes.
Separation of church and state, People. Separation of church and state.
I would be outraged if I were a bit surprised. The only interest Obama showed in the gay community was taking our money and time. He got neither from me.
After all Obama's stated position is the same as prop 8. Marriage is between a man and a women.
Rich Warren.
What the hell?
I don't know what Lowery's role will be, but hopefully it is a lot more high profile than the invocation. I can't remember the last time I even saw an invocation on TV, they usually happen at the beginning before anyone is even paying attention.
God DAMN America!
Warren can explain all he wants why his opinion is that only a man and a woman shall marry and he can claim there are 5,000 years of historical tradition to prove it but why does he ignore slavery, or polygamy, both approved in the Bible? Why is he not for standing up for those things? He's against polygamy but the bible isn't. So he is allowed to pick and choose which rules and regulations he wants to follow and we all should follow them as well regardless of weather we are not religious, Christian, Jew, Muslim or what have you. This faux pax by Obama and his team is a slap in the face of those still fighting for their civil rights and he should jolly well hear about it and often. I expected more of him and this was terribly insensitive of him.
If Obama wanted too, he could change all this with one simple phone call. I'm putting my money on that call never being made.
Sickening.
We've been suckered! Hope and Change? Bullshit. Obama is a fraud!
Well, at least I won't have to worry whether the media will try to destroy him. He's doing it all by himself.
Let's see -- who can we support in 2012? 'Cause I sure as hell won't be supporting him.
From Salon:
the decision to get involved with Saddleback was actually not Obama's. The Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies, run by the House and Senate, put together the program for the swearing-in ceremony. Congress, not Obama, invited Warren (as well as scheduling a musical performance by Aretha Franklin; here's hoping she doesn't reprise the 2005 inaugural performance of John Ashcroft's "Let the Eagle Soar").
But he won't.
And if I hear the canard of Barry not being able to do this or that "in his first term" one more time...
John, it didn't stop you from drinking the Kool-Aid for Obama and abandoning all perspective during the primaries, even going so far as to repeat the most scurrilous smears of Hillary Clinton to get him elected.
Sorry, but you don't have much of a platform left to protest this kind of thing. Your credibility is shot.
PUMA is a straw man -- it is telling that you assume anyone who was offended by Aravosis' actions during the primary must be a PUMA.
And, a gay band? Good comeback. I nearly spit up on my keyboard at that one.
I just assumed you were a PUMA since you mentioned HRC, otherwise I wouldn't have.
I do not support Rick Warren, for a lot of other reasons including the gay marriage stuff. To be honest, I think the gay band is as important as the invocation. Neither being very important in practical terms. It is the symbolism that gets people. I understand it. But Lowery supports gay marriage and he closes the inauguration. So I think Obama was trying to create a dialogue, but I just think Warren is too despicable to have a dialogue with. It does freak me out that Obama likes him.
"After all the division that Prop. H8 has caused, you are allowing a massive homophobe, Reverend Rick Warren, to give the inaugural invocation? Was your PSA against Prop H8 just so much glad-handing? Are we to trust our Senator when she speaks to us or do we always have to do mental gymnastics trying figure out what she actually stands for? After being mayor of a city with one of the largest gay populations and becoming Mayor after the assassinations of one of the first and most-beloved elected gay politicians I'm fairly shocked at this. This is not "sitting down with those who disagree with us"; this is literally giving glory to the devil. I'm incredibly ashamed of you at this point. Find another pastor -- I understand Gene Robinson or Peter J. Gomes could be available; both are extremely intelligent and religious, more in line with Barack Obama, and less offensive than this bigoted gadfly."
She's not to be trusted and I'm not voting for her and everyone else here who lives in California should throw this cow out.
How does anyone take for granted that any "research" you post on Warren can be considered true after the way you conducted your site during the primary? Based on your primary smears, I wouldn't repeat any of the "facts" in your posts in any argument on this issue (or any other) without double checking -- I could be using cooked information.
Parag Mehta
parag.mehta@ptt.gov.
perhaps we might want to write the transition team a little more directly!
My guess is there is little chance of a disinvite at this point, no matter how much I would like it, as Obama would not like to be seen as caving to an interest group, even if that interest group is made up of the vast majority of his constituency. I suggest we work on getting Warren balanced with an inclusive sane person, who would actually represent everything this administration has claimed to work for.
And just for the record; Equality is in no way tyranny.
He tries to be so mainstream, always talking about how many wonderful gay friends he has and then in goes the knife to the back.
Barack Obama, this is not the religious leader you should embrace. He is more of the same old hate hiding behind phony piety. Come. On.
You know the Revs words will be vetted...
If it is one thing Next President Obama has reflected in his public life..
is his dedication to inclusion...Harvard Republicans,,,and Harvard others
were stunned shocked and floored when our Next President Obama
actually gave them a voice...
Our political lives have come to embrace the "You are either with us or against us" mind set....the next 4 years will be a challenge.,,
We are headed toward a National..and Global weirdness...
It will take ALL of us to see it through...
It will take visionary leadership beyond what we are used to in our lives.
Both the bent and the caring are part of the problem...and can be a part of the solution.
Wrap your mind around a bi-racial man as our Next President.
Do you really believe he does not understand...first hand..bigotry?
In our White House will be a wife and mother whose heritage includes slavery. Two children...who look black from a distance...Black children will frolic
in the Big House...
Tap yer toes ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5ALKAaa-TU
ya gotta dance...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN54B0LuPew
my guess is that he understands bigotry against racial minorities. does he have the bigger picture? unclear.
btw, do you?
Warren is not a fluke. McClurkin is not a fluke. Wright wasn't even a fluke. Obama clearly likes his ministers bigoted and/or firebreating. This is exactly why I voted for the black lesbian.
Why is there a priest at the inauguratrion, anyway? Obama needs to spend more time with his economists and treaury people and NO time with preachers.
I've just called Feinstein's three offices: how the hell else are the stupid bastards in the Democratic Party supposed to learn, if we don't teach them?
Second, the bible says eating shrimp is an abomination. It's right there on the same page with the famous prohibition against gays. The religious right ignores it, along with most of the rest of the bible.
Third, the Log Cabin Republicans have a strategy akin to the one you are espousing. It has gotten them nowhere.
(You won't get through to her Washington Office, answering machine won't take message -- I recommend calling her local offices)
Los Angeles
11111 Santa Monica Blvd., Suite 915
Los Angeles, CA 90025
Phone: (310) 914-7300
Fax: (310) 914-7318
The following counties are served by the Los Angeles office: Los Angeles, Santa Barbara, Ventura.
San Diego
750 B Street, Suite 1030
San Diego, CA 92101
Phone: (619) 231-9712
Fax: (619) 231-1108
The following counties are served by the San Diego office: Orange, Riverside, San Bernardino, Imperial, San Diego.
Fresno
2500 Tulare Street, Suite 4290
Fresno, CA 93721
Phone: (559) 485-7430
Fax: (559) 485-9689
As for Warren, he is an absolute liar who was caught red handed during his little pumped up self-promoting "debate". He is a media manipulator of the first order and an obvious homophobe, sharing in common some things with Barack. In an interview just published on Beliefnet, he scripturally likened gay marriage to brother and sister marriage and went out of his way to characterize our love as sin and our "condition" as life style choice. He is a sicko theocrazy publishing in sheep's clothing.
When Obama hasn't made one single public acknowledgment of the need to return our country to the constitution nor his promise to do so, you have enough ready evidence of his "style" to know that he is going to do not one thing to progress gay equality that he does not HAVE to do.
Our work is cut out for us. There is as much natural affinity for our equality in him as you can find any Sunday morning in a black church full of insecure women and men suffering the consequences of long oppression -- and fearfully looking for somebody to take it out on.
more evidence that there is only one political party, and thats the one with the politicians in it.
"I believe marriage is a union between a man and a woman," he said. "Now, for me as a Christian, it is also a sacred union. God is in the mix."
He is just another antigay religious douchebag.
What makes Obama’s move foolish, along with the dozens of insults already mentioned, is that these Evangelical “Leaders” come and go with the wind.
To tarnish this timeless historic moment so many sacrificed so greatly, for the sake of bringing the Evangelical Camp into the Obama fold is illogical for this reason:
These so-called leaders appoint themselves, attract a huge following, and inevitably fall from grace with their mega-flock when they fail to uphold their own rigid world-view.
Many of the most prominent charismatic ones who are virtually worshipped by their followers are exposed practicing the very “Sins” they preach against, as the character make-up that enables them to rise to the heights of power also creates a huge weakness in their morality, often leading to secret dual lifestyles.
Why would Obama risk tarnishing a moment that belongs to the world - and the ages - with a spiritual blessing from a here today, gone tomorrow celebrity-style Evangelical Leader?
.
With so many distinguished persons in the entire world he could have selected/approved, why this controversial lightning-rod bozo?
And may I add that with so many racist and xenophobic bozos in the entire world, why did he have to pick a homophobe?
First, Obama is a politician. He does not walk on water or turn water into wine. He's a man who will make decisions that occasionally will dismay many of us. This is one of them. I have no idea what the long view is here, but we all know that he's going to be facing a staggering array of problems thanks to the mis-, mal- and non-feasance of the Bush Administration starting with the economy. Perhaps he really needs the evangelicals to lean on their people in D.C. to pass his programs. I honestly don't know, but he's a smart man. He is not going to tick off a group of supporters without a reason.
Second, my memory of the early Clinton years is not so hot, but wasn't the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" effort a big issue that distracted us from the get-go from all the other plans Clinton had? Maybe Obama's thinking is to walk softly on GLBT issues for a year or two in order to enact other programs. Folks, our nation really is in serious, serious trouble right now on many fronts. The two wars. The faltering economy. The empty treasury. The environmental challenges. And we don't yet have a filibuster proof Senate.
I'm not ready to run the most gifted Democratic politician in a generation out of town based on one decision that really doesn't relate to how he will govern. Let's all take a deep breath.
parag.mehta@ptt.gov (Parag Mehta is Obama’s LGBT liaison in the transition team.)
dnoble@barackobama.com
bbond@barackobama.com
shidebrand@barackobama.com
fred.hochberg@ptt.com
You can also contact Sen. Dianne Feinstein’s office. She chaired the Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies and made the announcement.
Christopher, I hope some day you'll walk a mile in an LGBT person's shoes.
Obama's statement on gay marriage was that he believes in equal protection under the law, he just did not want churches sued for refusing to perform services...aka separation of church and state. Not one gay person wants to force a church that does not welcome them to perform their marriage service. There are plenty that will and if not there's always a judge.
And no Warren is not 'tame' compared to Wright. The difference between the two is that Warren puts a false populist persona on religion and Wright actually practiced populist religion that supported gay rights.
You get over yourself. And worry about yourself more than worrying about two consenting adult gay people who just want the same rights under the law as any other tax-paying American citizen.
The reason so many young people turn against religion is because religion as interpreted by insecure egomaniacal men and women publicly is so divisive, petty, and has nothing to do with true spirituality.
"Obama's statement on gay marriage was that he believes in equal protection under the law"? All that statement reveals is that you don't have a clue what 'equal protection' means.
Then it comes to the law I suggest it is best you remain silent and be thought a fool rather than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
If such comments prove anything they prove the legal ignorance of the speaker. Prop 8 is a house of cards that will come down — and this time (mark my word) by a unanimous (and not a divided) court. Why? Because in American we have agreed (via a constitution and a Bill of Rights) that there are some things you don’t get to vote on — just to protect minorities form the tyranny of the majority. Subject civil rights to a vote? LOL! Any pea-shooter brain can figure out where that would have left Obama or racist Mormons who bamboozled constitutionally ignorant blacks to vote to take away civil rights. Too bad Prop 8 will fall before these bigots feel the venom of their own fangs.
I have gay friends that have passed away who thought they protected their partners with power of attorney and 'iron clad wills' only to have judges overturn the will of the deceased and give everything to the family that disowned them for being gay. It destroys people both financially and emotionally. And there is no way to spin that type of consequence as being right or democratic.
Without legal protection on a national level no gay person will be safe from the prejudices of judges and for many years Dubya has been filling seats in the states with anti-equal rights judges. Ditto for reproductive righs by the way ladies. Tools like Warren cannot be rewarded for their positions and Obama is not 'reaching out' by giving this guy this honor, he is slapping a good portion of the people that busted their asses to get him elected in the face.
Please go to change.gov and send PE Obama a message on this subject.
Plus, he's oogy. Haggard-oogy. (Shudder)
Well, gee Taylor, I'd say when Warren compared same-sex marriage to pedophilia, that would constitute a trash-talking, mean-spirited, ad hominem attack in my book.
Oh? Whose civil rights did Joseph Lowery fight to take away?
http://my.barackobama.com/page/group/StopRickWa...
The corrupt Bible thumping Far Right are the ones that have put America in a hole and he is kissing up to Warren?
I am not gay, so don't anyone hop on my statment and try to make something of it. This scum hides behind the Bible and preaches hate for gays and has no concern for women. He is the kind who says it is terrible to not let the unborn come to life, but okay to go into Iraq and kill millions of the innocent living.
I can see right now Obama is going to promote Bible thumpers, not just let them believe as they choose (which is their right), but by promoting this crumb, he is going to let them continue to push their evil religious business on everyone without calling them on it.
So-called Religion, with the Faulwell/Dobson and many others has been and is operating the largest business going. Big, big money maker and they sell evil as they make that big money. They laugh all the way to the bank and keep their sheep feeding them by playing the fear game to them.
Another note, it sounds like we will be getting more charter schools now with the Duncan apointment. Think there won't be more so-called religious schools?
I have proved over the years that I can read people real well and on short order, but it looks like I have really messed up with my read on Obama. Maybe I need to give him slack and wait a while, but it doesn't look good now. Damn, who can we trust to do the right thing???
Dewey Funkhouser
I pegged him right from the beginning and I got called a racist when I wouldn't get on the bandwagon. Instead of listening to his speeches, I studied his voting record.
And the people who now complain are the same confederacy of constitutional dunces who marched backwards in lockstep on two left feet. Activists? Pulease. When we needed watch dogs the LGBT 'activists" who marched in lock-step acted like lap dogs. No one held his feet to the fire! No one called him out in the press. You all kissed his _ass. And now that he is keeping a promise made to you all of you cry foul? What unmitigated rubbish! This might be a good place to vomit. You got what you asked for. You are getting what he promised. This is what you voted for, no secrets, no surprises, no misunderstandings and he made no mistake about it. Revelation trumps reason. Religion is the ONLY stated reason this so called 'civil rights lawyer' has ever given for denial a ‘fundamental’ civil right. Legal reason? Oh no. Don’t ask this ‘civil rights lawyer’ for legal reasons. Enjoy the ride in your new Jim Crow railroad car on Obama’s Freedom Train. If the ride gets a bit bumpy on the back of the bus remember: this is what you were promised. And you were NOT tricked!
This is not news. You were warned ... nay you were promisedthis. Why are you all complaining that he is doing exactly as promised? See "Untangling Barack Obama's audacious mumbo jumbo," http://ebar.com/common/inc/article_print.php?se...
“[W]hen politicians ostentatiously proclaim their "deep faith" and march their preachers into the public square promulgating religion as their sole excuse for denying civil rights, then we should, in the spirit of Voltaire, have but one response: Ecrasez l'infame!!!!"
That being said, I was expecting to be disappointed sooner or later, so lets hope this is the big one and things will improve. Hey, a guy can hope.
whose wisdom he audaciously abjures,
"I've heard the reasons for opposing civil marriage for same-sex couples. Cut through the distractions, and they STINK of the same FEAR, HATRED, and INTOLERANCE, I have known in racism and in BIGOTRY." (Rep. John Lewis (D-GA), (Boston Globe, 11/25/03.) (Emphasis added.)
Virtually every African American civil rights leader, the most towering figures in The Movement, support marriage equality. http://www.nbjcoalition.org/about/supporters.html
Obama does not heed their rising voices and he abjures the wisdom of those most fit to instruct because the very marriage rights Obama has were paid for by the blood, sweat, and tears of the towering leaders he now turns his back on.
Nothing personal I’m sure. It’s religion you see. Another perfect example of Christopher Hitchens’ comment that “religion poisons everything.”
The California supreme court decided that it was unconstitutional in 1948 to deny marriage to people of different races. If there had be a proposition then put up for popular vote it would definitely been overturned. The Bill of Rights is supposed to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. When the US Supreme court decided that "separate but equal" schools were inherently UNEAQUAL, in 1954, should that been put to a vote of the majority? The majority of Americans would certainly have opted to continue segregated schools. In fact in order to do just that, religious schools, expecially Christian, started sprouting all over America in the 60s. Wake up people religion IS THE PROBLEM.
First, calm down. He is doing the invocation, he isn't going to do policy. Rev. Rick Warren won't be in charge of DADT policy, or funding global birth control programs. The Obama Administration isn't going to have idiotic Gay Marriage bans on the ballot in states for voter turnouts as the Bush Administration did in 2000, 2004, 2006 and 2008.
This is a political move to placate dunderheads, and meth heads who are on the wagon who have read "Purpose Driven Life".
Personally, I can't stand the guy. He is an ignorant tosser. However Obama is trying to get appeal to some trailer park residents, and others in the burbs who actually will swallow Rev. Warren's tripe.
With any politicians, ignore their rhetoric at times, and follow their actions. I highly doubt that Warren gets more than a thank you, and drools over the national exposure, but the Obama Administration is going to do 180 of what Rev. Warren wants to be done, whether it is reproductive rights and access, like RU-486. Repeal DADT, writie amicus briefs for separation of church and state...
I think that as much we want Obama to be a liberal and progressive and wear it on his shirtsleeve, he is a politician that has to build coalitions.
Obama has been more anti-gay than Hillary ever was. Even she isn't stupid enough to make the comments he did.
Obama told us that it was our problem that he chose an ex-gay to speak at all his stump speeches, allowing him to proclaim that he was cured of his disease. Even Patti LaBell went apeshit over this, and said Obama should have used her, and not some bigot.
The Obama appologists are now going to be squashed. It's over. Obama is going to ensure that he only lasts one term. Democrats, Liberals, and Progressives are not putting up with this bullshit. He is now letting religion run our government. No one is twisting Obama's arm to do this.
If he goes through with this, kiss 2012 goodbye. We're not supporting him.
Joe Solmonese led the gang of gay leaders who uncritically backed the man who opposed our basic civil right to marry, and now feigns outrage when Obama gives him the back of his hand? He's been doing it all along, Joe.
Too many Democrats pretended Obama was what they wanted him to be.
Most people recognize the need for some laws restraining some types of sexual behavior (e.g. rape, incest, sexual contact between adults and children). We do not approve sexual behavior simply because a person desires it or feels it to be natural to himself.
Although I believe that heterosexual behavior is the God-intended design for human beings, I do not believe that all heterosexual behavior is acceptable (adultery is one example of wrongful heterosexual conduct). The truth is that we can be physiologically/biologically inclined toward many different types of behavior but such impulses should not be used to define personhood.
GIve me a a break Rev. You people should clean up the church of so many abusers, stop covering it up. You should have no time to blog!
I am a straight married woman, who is offended by the church business, taking advantage oif the innocent , do nothing but pass the plate every week, recession or not.
This Rev. as all the others like him, is A BIGGOT.
I am so disappointed in this choice. Maybe Obama is, as his pastor put it, a POLITICIAN FIRST, after all.
Its time for equal rights for all people
We are all Gods children
Women have just begin to have rights lets not go backwards
there is times like rape a women should have choice for abortion
Trust is like an ice cube, once it melts its hard to get it back.
Obama is on track to learn this. I personally have arrived at the. "Wot brah? Wot chu like do? Be popular or be good Prez?". I voted for a good President not a legacy fame builder. I am sure getting nervous.
The one thing that will happen is that the military will allow gays & lesbians to serve openly. That is already happening, Obama really can't take credit for it. But he will take credit for it, & act like he's actually done something for gays & lesbians.
But he won't whatsoever. Time is the only answer. Among other influences, Americans will have to see gays & lesbians die for a few decades before they'll let them live.
Rick warren is an extremist with very extreme views. The religious right exerts a huge influence in America because they have learned marketing techniques, along with the Republicans. Read the transcripts of his interviews. Some of the things he says are really ugly.
Just because a person says he nice doesn't mean that he IS nice.
thanks for being on the cutting edge of supporting the next homophobic agenda and homophobe apologist.
thanks. the rest of our community deserved better than your school-boy crush and denial. fuck you shithead.
You get what he paid for when he advertised with you. Now you're suprised? Puh-lease.
I'm a man
I have a girlfriend
She calls me her husband
I call her my wife
The government doesn't know this
Oh, no
I think I'm a homophobe
Then, next sentence: "I am totally sick of the bigotry of certain Americans".
You mean you're not tolerant of the 53% of the voting populace that somehow <gasp> equate marriage to procreation?
With every passing hour I become more 'n more convinced that liberals have a fatally misconstrued definition of "tolerance".
And it hits its nadir with gay liberals.
"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read, "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected BY A GREAT MAJORITY, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and Infidel of every denomination."
The minister (yes, he is a minister) who could truly deliver an invocation that would inspire everyone, yet insult no one, is Bill Moyers. Please, please, Mr. Obama, change your mind. This is more than YOUR inauguration, it is OURS. Didn't you say at the Democratic Convention that this election was not about you, but about us?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73oZ_pe1MZ8
Also from CNN... What does Barack believe about marriage.
"Opposes same-sex marriage, but also opposes a constitutional ban."
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/...
I applaud Obama and I hope he doesn't cave in. Abortion is an abomination. Should the child pay for the sins of the parents. What about birth control and adoption. What if your mother had aborted you? As far as repenting before going to church last I knew you could not receive communion in the Catholic church without joining and going to confession. I guess that makes the pope a bigot against all non-catholics. Having rules does not make you a bigot. The only group it is still ok to bash are Christians of any religious affiliation. Just ask all of those calling us bigots....
And do you really think a gay person will "desicrate" (sic) marriage? The desEcration of marriage does not come from gay people seeking to partake and honor the institution of marriage. It comes from the Evangelicals (who have the highest divorce rate in America, by the way) banning together to strike down 18,000 perfectly legitimate marriages that already exist by simply walking into a voting booth and voting yes on a proposition. Gay people didn't try to invalidate 18,000 marriages. Folks like you did. Congratulations on your defense of marriage. Marriages can now be canceled not only by divorce, but by perfect strangers in secret. Good work.
Friends, this is a prayer---not a sermon. Billy Graham has prayed at several inaugurations, for both Democrat and Republican presidents and he is also soundly pro-life. President elect Obama has taken a huge step in demonstrating his determination to not play the political game as it has been played before and the very people who should understand inclusion are those who are protesting his choice. Shame on you. If you expected a president who would cater to your every whim, hopefully, you will be sorely displeased. We've had years of that kind of leadership and pray that Obama will lead differently.
In fact my military career spans 24 years all together. What have you done for your country Leon? Maybe homosexual men and women should stop providing all these goods and services. Maybe we should stop filing our income taxes every year. Better yet why just not take away all the rights and privliges hetrosexuals have in marriage. At least there would then be a level playing field which is all we ever wanted. You guys are just angry and bitter than someone else will have something that up till now you have had a monopoly on. You can't find any other way to punish us for something we have no xcontroll over so you will punish us this way. I did not ask to be homosexcual but God gives you what he gives you and you make the best of it. As far as Rick Warren is concerned heis a bigot plane and simple. He equates homosexuals with poligimists and pedophiles. You alsohave to remenber that although the left has always been willing to reach out accross the isle the right represented by Pastor Warren have and never will do likewise. In any case I will be one who will not be watching the inaguration cerimonies. Wake up and smell the coffee Leon.
Billy Graham was the first preacher with the presumption to insult all non-christians by invoking Jesus at an inauguration. Shame on him. Shame on Warren. Shame on you.
Why is it that those most loudly clamoring for 'tolerance' always seem to sound like you do? That is, the very definition of intolerant. (Not to mention pedantic and narrow-minded).
BTW, when a poster such as myself suddenly receives from a number of different aliases a bunch of off the wall replies filled with the same kind of slightly crazed over-caffeinated insult-laden hyperbole all posted within the same short time frame, he could understandably jump to the conclusion that they are in fact all coming from the same individual.
Leon
So -- we need to keep him from speaking at the Inauguration.
Absolutely fucking priceless. Still waiting to meet that non-hypocritical Liberal....