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Until I read that officials of the Bush administration have been arrested and are on their way to The Hague, I'm calling bullshit on Obama and his explanation.
By covering up these photos, we decrease the likelihood that anyone other than a few privates will be ever held accountable for these war crimes which originated at the very top of the hierarchy and we will increase the likelihood that a future administration, and certainly the next Republican administration, will engage in torture more frequent and much closer to home.
The right would like us all to accept uncritically the idea that these photos will endanger our troops. We owe it to ourselves - to our vision of what this country's all about - to think that idea through.
If anyone's using that idea to cover the government's ass, they ought to be kicked from here to Hoboken by the right, the left, and anyone in between.
When that idea's being spread by the same president who's trying to prevent prosecution of torture, I begin to suspect his motives are more complicated than he's letting on.
I continue to wait for a president with integrity and courage. Is that really so much to ask?
I'm thinking you are on the money. I cringe to think how sadistic these unreleased ones are.
-----My trust theory is a bit shaky. I know that Bush 41 gave the rebel leaders back to Saddam, and that was immoral and flat out wrong. Schwarzkopf allowed Saddam to use helicopters against the rebels. I don't know why the Muslims would trust us after that, but they don't seem to be complaining. Go figure.
-----I think that Obama knows we need to become a country that can be trusted; but he is trying to keep the T-1000 (GOP meets Skynet) from reforming. Right now the Republicans need something to rally around. They didn't get to regroup against Clinton for president. They need something, anything to glue their shattered party together. I don't think Obama is going to throw them a lifeline (no torture pics, lifeline).
And those are different from this batch in the news today - the new photos being litigated are from Afghanistan and from Iraqi locations OTHER than Abu Ghraib, so there are actually two caches of unreleased photos, the ones being discussed today and that forgotten and locked up batch that were from Abu Ghraib.
I wonder if Obama has seen the locked up Abu Ghraib photos?
I like Obama, but should we not have investigations started in 2012 then my vote goes elsewhere. Our behavior and how we handle problems is my number one issue. That is the change I voted on last time.
I also what to know what democrats knew what, so I can vote appropriately as well. This isn't a partisan issue at all.
He is turning out to be the same as all the others before him. The same promises and the same failures to act on those promises. I think that when he comes around next time that I won't be taken in again. We had this same nonsense with Clinton.
Sad but true.
If we don't prosecute and punish, we tell the world that we think it's okay if WE do it, and the world loses respect for us and hates us. If we make some ill-conceived attempt to hide the evidence of what we did -- and what everyone knows we did -- we aren't fooling anyone. If we let the perpetrators go free, everything we say we stand for is a joke to the rest of the world. And they hate us.
Absolutely the only way for Obama -- and the United States of America -- to have any credibility and begin to fix this is to admit it and punish the wrongdoers.
Executive capitulation to the Pentagon - - I voted against this.
As much as I want to trust Obama, he's teaching me that I cannot.
And it's been barely over 100 days.
The more things "change" the more stay the same. Just a different banner and no so overt as the previous party.
Bush administration officials, including Unka Dick, are proud that they tortured prisoners.
Since they are so proud of their torture, and adamant that torture works, those pictures should be released. Pronto.
The world and our nation needs to see exactly what the previous administration is so proud of. They didn't worry about our soldiers being in danger when they tortured so what difference would it make now?
The "I was just following orders" mantra didn't work at trials held after WW II, and they hold no water now. Torture is torture is torture no matter what. The entire Bush regime should be in chains standing before the World Court for War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity.
The top of the chain has to take responsibility...they are to blame not "America"...America sinned to tolerate Bush/Cheney's PR fakery.
PS-Miz Lindsey's a poorer man's Nixon...
Men, women and children being sodomized by Bushco. thugs.
Men, women and children being tortured in various ways.
Beatings.
Use of feces and dogs.
Waterboarding, drowing, suffocation.
Constant noise, constant light, not letting people fall asleep for days on end.
Burning and electricity used on men, women and children.
We already know this, so does the rest of the world.
Why are Bush, Cheney and the rest of the evil cabal not standing trial in the Hague as we read about this?
Racist thugs in military uniforms sodomize detainees.
The Afghan people will kick our ass. Hard. Just like every other invader. For two thousand years.
And it's a lesson we need to learn. We didn't learn it in Indochina a generation ago. Maybe this time we will.
This Liberal American isn't swallowing any more of Obama's - or the rest of the Demipublican's - Kool-Aid.
Obama: The Change We Can Make Believe In.
Here are my thoughts on the subject in detail. Check it out:
http://yellingatthemoon.com/2009/05/13/obamablo...
If the good general is opposing the release of these photos, then Barack's military man must learn to get on his knees and answer respectfully to the euridite hippies that are his masters on this one at the civilian court. That is the way it works. It is high time and the law demands that Mr. Military man and Barack be obedient little boys and cough up the photos as per the order of the court.
Having said that, I hope that these pictures compel Obama to hold whoever orchestrated it accountable. If Obama doesn't throw Cheney's ass into a jail cell for this THEN I will be pissed. Dick is out there babbling like a child who was just caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Guilt is just exuding from every pore of his poisoned body.
Nope, we didn't torture to get information, we tortured because some people at the top of this mess liked it. Why else would thousands of detailed pictures even exist? You'd think that those who orchestrated the torture wouldn't want to leave a trail..............it just doesn't make sense.
That's WH code for "they aren't that bad". My theory is that Obama and staff reviewed the photos and realized that they were pretty mild stuff -- so releasing them would undermine the accusations of abuse.
In other words, the monster behind the door is only scary until you open the door.
My personal opinion, is that Obama doesn't want to give the GOP an issue that can bring its shattered party back together. If it is mild, moderate or ultra evil torture pics, it isn't going to matter. (Well the worse the pics are, the more pressure will be brought on Obama.) I believe that Obama doesn't want to throw a rope to his drowning enemy (aka GOP). The GOP needs a rallying cause. Teabagging parties weren't all that successful. They need to unify against the Democrats. Right now they are an unruly mob, with no strong central leader, or mandate. Just my 2 cents.
This is shameful.
No show, no story. The story now and rightfully so is the hearing on the torture memos. The photo story is just a footnote and the way it's playing, it's a sort of bone to the right. It makes Obama look favorable to the military, it makes him look reasonable as opposed to looking partisan and seeking to 'get' Bush and Cheney and finally, I accept the argument that it may put active military overseas in greater harm. So it makes obama look like a good commander in Chief.
These pictures will come out. Sooner rather than later I'm thinking. obama's moves however, are just political calculation and IMO skill. The big picture is moving on up to the ones who authorized torture and degradation, not wallowing in the degradation itself done by the military. That is a distraction from eventual war crimes charges brought up against Cheney.
I think he's buying time to try to establish better relations with the Afghan and Iraqi government, so when the photos do come out, they can present it to their own people as old news about crimes committed by people who are long gone and not by our New American Friends. And maybe keep the outrage from getting more Americans killed.
If Bush, Cheney et al were in the dock charged with war crimes for it, of course, that argument would be easier to make.
By saying that the photos are so horrible he can't show them, Obama will get the bad guys thinking the absolute worst they can think. That's what will endanger the lives of our troops.
That and having them involved in an ongoing war crime called an occupation.
Obama has no guts at all. I was wrong about him. Either that or has any checked to see if Bush is actually in Dallas Texas, and not stilling living in the White House wearing a latex mask?
That isn't what he said. He said that if released, the photos could cost the lives of some of our soldiers.
Me being a Gay Democratic leaning Moderate am still AMAZED at how quickly he has fulfilled my prediction. I'm starting to see a one term administration here.
To think that those we've tortured, those we've wronged around the world will just say "no big deal" to not releasing these photos and not holding the vile Bush Jr Administration responsible for its misdeeds, is willful ignorance or incredibly aggressive naivete.
Anyone who believes the rest of the world will give us a free pass just because Obama says we no longer torture is foolish, as Obama's now shown he can't be trusted when it comes to standing strong against the same people who drove our country into the ground, tortured in our name, and spied on our fellow citizens without a warrant, all to combat the same people Bush Jr let escape when we switched our focus from catching/killing Usama bin Laden to stupidly invade & occupy Iraq.
Torture, warrantless spying, suspension of habeas corpus, indefinite detention and covering up clear crimes by those at the top of our power structure have NOT resulted in bin Laden's death or capture, have not destroyed al-Qaeda or the Taliban or quelled the massive unrest in a increasingly destabilized-and nuclear armed-Pakistan.
We will pay for the Bush Jr Administration's global crimes, more than likely with another massive Sept 11 style attack, if we don't make the Bush Jr Admin pay for them.
I won't look, most definitely. However, I too want to see Bush & Co. pay for the crimes they committed in all our good names. I don't think they should receive a free pass, not in the least. And I realize exactly the kind of danger they put all of us in by doing what they did, as if it was their right. It wasn't. They made us unsafe by their actions.
All I was saying is if those pictures were put out, they have the potential to endanger the lives of our precious troops. That's all. I referred to a Daily Kos diary from an Arab man who said seeing those pictures would make him angry, and his fear is militant groups would use them as a recruiting tool to rile up hatred against us, thus further endangering our troops.
That's all. I want to see justice served, and I hope congress has the fortitude to handle it.
Sincerely,
AnnieR
I am so sorry you misunderstood my post. I am not a Republican, never have been, never will be. I indicated a diary written on Daily Kos stating the writer agreed with the President, and he explained why, as an Arab man how angry photos of Arabs being tortured would make him, and how they could be used to further militant recruiting. I do not sleep well knowing what we have done, in our good names. I just stated I would have nightmares if I actually saw it. The words in these memos make me cringe. Several family members over the years have served this country proudly, and I would not want to see anything done that could possibly endanger our precious troops. If what this Arab man wrote in his daily Kos diary could even be partially true, releasing those photos will endanger our troops. That's all I was saying. And for the record, I would like nothing more than to see everyone involved, from Bush on down, behind bars for these horrific
crimes. And I would rather we step up and prosecute, than another country or the International Red Cross.
Once again, sorry I did not make myself clear. I certainly meant no disrespect, at any level, and I'm certainly not proud of what was done in all our names. Quite the opposite.
Sincerely,
AnnieR
Thanks for your response. Here's to congress doing the right thing (and if not them, the DOJ), or us, if it comes down to it. This cannot go unpunished.
Thanks again.
AnnieR