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That said Mr. President, you still have a choice in this battle, either be on the side of justice or continue being a coward because you are afraid of offending the American-Christian Taliban.
Where is my hero?
these are the words of our "fierce advocate?"
it must be really, really, really hard to be obama, constantly wrestling with his faith regarding "the gays." if this money quote doesn't convince you that he just wants us all to go away, nothing will.
what a farce!
But then, we're just fodder in the culture wars that he foolishly believes he can avoid. And the take shows the disconnect:
Religious folks, cultural conservatives included, will appreciate that Obama takes his faith seriously enough that he's struggling with how to reconcile it with his commitment to gays and lesbians. Social liberals and the LGBT community will appreciate that he's unequivocal about that commitment.
We're not so certain he's unequivocal these days. We're "feeling" victimized after watching institutions like the Catholic Church and evangelical denominations and the Mormons pour millions of dollars into marriage, civil union, domestic partnership and adoption bans, "feeling" victimized because in this employer's market you can still be fired for being gay, "feeling" victimized because gays and lesbians are being discharged at the rate of two soldiers per day whille the president doesn't lift a finger to stop it, and "feeling" victimized by the DOJ's mishandling of their reply brief. The source of all of this, btw, at least in America, is the conservative Christian faith, and the bigotry it masks with theology.
Trademark Obama indeed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejkG3VeA2Kc
We don't need to make new ads to destroy him in the next primary. We can just run his own against him. From just this quote from his 2004 DNC speech he stands opposed to dividing any group, while he is actively drawing a line in and between Americans and gays. Via his work and his silence
1. We can't serve in the military.
2. Our contracts aren't honored across state lines.
3. We can't adopt kids.
4. We can't marry.
5. We can't file joint taxes.
6. We can't make our immigrant partners citizens.
7. We don't have our partner's protection in court.
8. We cant' leave an inheritance.
9. We can't give blood.
10. We can't have the audacity of hope.
I don't even want to go on. Let's bring him down in '12.
My, that will turn out well. THINK, people!
Who knows that is very far away in political terms, as my friend Jyhder points out Obama has only been president for about 7 months.
Maybe if we pressure him like hell he will whip himself in shape and feel comfortable enough to express that currency we gave him in the form of a sweeping mandate for progressive action.
I think and I am still somewhat civil. I'm just not fucking around.
The protest happens before election day. As of now, I plan to be a part of it.
Obviously, if Obama is the candidate, we have little choice. But, unlike the last campaign, I do not plan on giving money or blogging support.
That, of course, could change if we actually see some change in the next 2 1/2 years.
I am not holding my breath.
I'm telling you we could make Dean the 45th.
First, I absolutely refuse to accept the following excuse: "It's only been [insert current time since inauguration]; just wait until [some distant point in the future]." No. If the President has time to file briefs defending DOMA, he has time to issue a stop-loss order on DADT. He can try to improve his standing if he wants, but right now he is a gay-rights failure who does nothing but offer one excuse after another.
Second, my partner and I contributed to the statutory maximum and raised tens of thousands of dollars for the Obama campaign in 2008. WE WON'T BE DOING THAT AGAIN UNLESS WE SEE A MAJOR ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT IN THIS PATRONIZING AND DISMISSIVE ADMINISTRATION.
Too bad Barry wasn't even fucking BORN when JFK said that. (And he obviously never read it either.) To me, having experienced the 1st Catholic president's words, it is ASTONISHING to hear a US president actually say:
"And as a Christian, I'm constantly wrestling with my faith and my solicitude and regard and concern for gays and lesbians."
It is truly astounding that America has moved SO far backwards in the past 50 years.
Thank you for reminding me of the time it takes. After Bush, we all seem to assume things were pretty good before 2001. They weren't. They have taken decades to go down to this point. And it will take a long time to bring it back. I just don't know if I have the strength to do it.
And no, I don't get that this guy is a troll at all. I feel Obama should do much more -- MUCH more. But I see HIM as a youngster, too. He doesn't GET it. And he SHOULD have things crammed down his throat. So -- keep it up.
Just remember -- just suddenly getting 100% gay rights will not fix America. Nor will getting full-blown socialized medicine fix everything. This country is WAY screwed up. It will take everyone acting together and not just relaxing after their pet project gets fixed -- if it does. Education is another one. That MUST be fixed -- and soon.
The key ingredient, I think, is America's fixation on MONEY. Believe it or not, you can live quite a happy life, living in a rental, or even an apt. your whole life! Yet most Americans fixate on owning a house as the American dream. How about having a dream that involves humans, rather than houses, cars, etc.?
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/house-overw...
You are right, these things take a long time to correct. However if you sit back and silently object, they will never correct. I'm starting to question whether you really are liberal or just a troll. This post is appalling, Jhyder. Just appalling.
The most telling comment from PanderMan here is this,
"For the gay and lesbian community in this country, I think it's clear that they feel victimized..."
Get it? He acknowledges, "they feel victimized." Not that he thinks we have been, or are continuing to be victims, but that he knows that we feel that way.
Which is why he exploited it during the campaign. He knows we want our civil rights. He used it to raise money and support.
But it also explains why he has done nothing...because he does not necessarily care about us, or believe we are victimized, himself. If he did, why not just come out and say it?
When one is a great orator, it is interesting how the real truth comes out with a turn of a phrase.
Thanks for the enlightenment, PanderMan.
biggest disappoinment ever
So many promises,
so little delivered.
One term wonder maybe?
You think?! We haven't been loud enough for you? Don't fuck with a faggot scorned.
This consciousnous business is a red herring, and I don't see anything in this article that even relates to it.
The Ninth Circuit just supported WA State's law which says that Pharm's have to provide morning after pills, which has the fundies and Catholics all in a twit.
Perhaps that is because you are not saying or doing anything.
I see nothing at all with anyone pointing to their faith and saying, "this is part of myself", nothing at all wrong with it, but when you have ran for a public service position and have chosen to take money from the same people you have a conflict with, that kind of negates your standing on the issue a bit there obama. Everyone has the right not to like a people, for any and all reasons they want, it is when you tell others they have to do the same, or that others have to live as you do, or that they have to live by the standards of your own personal approach to the choice of faith that things are completely upside down. No one should have to live by even my standards or my beliefs, they are "mine", but we all have a common belief that as americans we are entitled to all the the rights of this country, god or no god.
Yes, I know this isn't the case in all abortions and there are a small group who go get one without any moral conflict, but they are outside of the mainstream. All the President did there was point out that both pro-choice and anti-abortion supporters would like to reduce the number of abortions which take place in the United States.
Also, while I'm not Catholic I am religious and it bothers me to see the number of anti-religious statements here. This is not how you get support from people who are committed to the social gospel which has long been a mainstay of the mainline churches in America. The religious leaders who want a theocracy are a small minority of religious leaders and do not represent most religious people.
Obama is convinced, or has been convinced, that any issue that reeks of controversy, especially culture issues, are to be pushed aside in the national interest. That's what's going on. That's why he's been so wishy washy about the public option (because the GOP hates it, thus controversy), why he's endorsed a lackluster climate change bill in the House, and so on. The man abhors controversy.
Please tell me you think this is an extreme, super-uber-mega tiny chance he is going to approach the abortion issue.
Whatever else I thought of Obama, I thought he was a cannier politician than that.
How about our "representative" government?!
Only those who are without sin are allowed to cast stones. And since everyone is a sinner, then no one is allowed to judge or punish anyone else for their sins.
Besides which, it is God's job to punish sinners. The only reason that anyone could have for punishing sinners is that they don't believe that God will punish sinners, or they don't believe that God's punishment is good enough. Yes, they will give other reasons, but at the heart of it, it is still one of these. And in both of these, they reveal a profound lack of faith which should be highlighted at every opportunity.
Logically, if they are questioning their "God's" commandments then they must not worship the God of that book they love to put in hotel rooms but some other god like money.
So once again it appears that Obama is phrasing these issues VERY carefully, as any politician would, BUT what concerns me greatly is his apparent need to appeal to the far Right instead of the conservative, moderate and (especially) Progressive Dems.
Is this problem anything more than just a crafty politician trying to coax the most bang for the buck out of each and every line? Maybe...but the consistency of this same ole song being played over and over again is what has me most worried.
Continuing to reserve hope that Obama is merely trying to "unite" this country after decades of partisan warfare is one thing, BUT it is the blatant display of a LACK of concern for his own words, promises and political base that should be catching our collective attention.
I remain heartened that in his still young administration, there are active plans to honor his pledge with a dedication to those who donated their hard fought dollars to get him elected. However, it is Obama's own words that are slowly eating away at his many promises that are giving me a dark sense of foreboding.
OT:
The Amos & Andy Show is back, this time in a gay format. Brüno. This is not a good sign for a loving tomorrow. Let me rephrase that, anti-gay sentiment through ridicule is unacceptable. It's something like using the n-word in reference to our first negro president, if you will. Offended? Me too! Boycott Brüno!
Here is a relative clip of Shep Smith and Ralph Nader that had me fuming when it aired. Now I kind of want to get on my knees and apologize to Ralph.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibsP6XN2dIo
OT translates (most times) to Off Topic. It is used when you want to stray from the topic stated on the corresponding thread.
Mighty white of him.
I don't think you are in danger of anyone charging you with having any sort of specified agenda at all, Mr. President.
We are not equal in god's eyes? Please tell me. You opened the door, now walk thru it!
How about helping gay people avoid being confronted with a circumstance in which they loose their career or cannot start a family? Would that be a good thing?
As someone who was an adult (but barely) when Roe vs Wade became law, I can tell you there was none of this religious claptrap. People, by and large, accepted it. It took the religious nuts decades to become really violent. And, because of that, Americans, as usual, cowered and said they changed their minds -- they are now against abortion. They really aren't, of course, but they sure say they are. (Of course, Religious Right wacko women have abortions, too.)
The bottom line is that Americans must stop being afraid of everything. Be it terrorists, Religious Right murderers, immigrant-murderers, gay murderers, on and on.
I am so sick of scared little children -- American adults.
What was I thinking that personal and civil liberties should be sacred in the country founded on the notion that we should be free from tyranny and equal to each other.
It is almost as if our country has completely reset to the theocratic rule that died to escape.
Far too many positions promised can now be used to fill in the blank in the above statement.
Un-fucking-real. What a backwards country this is.
Sounds similar to Dan Choi struggling to reconcile his patriotic faith with his acceptance of his personality.
It's the only explanation I can think of between the Obama who campaigned and won and the Obama who now serves as President.
______________
Richard
outsourcing in bpo
however, his comments on gays and lesbians have been so disappointing and offensive it makes me question his commitment to progressive policies. i feel like i have been duped. that combined with his unwillingness to do anything regarding the banks strangle hold on our law makers. i don't know if he is trying to spread out his "change" platform over his four years, but it is a mistake if that is his position. his recent slip in poll numbers in ohio shows that people are expecting him to hit the ground running and so far he has been a no show. if this is what his presidency is going to be like you can count me out for volunteering and donating again in 2012.
Not that they actually are.
Only they "feel" they are.
But GET OVER IT, will you? Will you stop wringing, wringing your hands over abortion? It's just NOT THAT BIG A DEAL for the vast majority of women who have first-trimester abortions. If your hang-up is that you care about children so much, then focus on foster children, children in poverty, children of alcoholic parents, children who have no public libraries to go to---something relevant to actual human life, children who have real lives, feelings, needs, and dreams and could use some concrete help---not this sentimental claptrap about ending pregnancies.
But stop obsessing over the fact that unplanned pregnancies constantly happen and WILL happen when high-quality contraception isn't available to the people who need it, or they're guilt-tripped into not using it because they're taught that sex is bad. And it even happens when contraception IS used. That's just life. Women have always had these rotten situations, and they've always, throughout history and prehistory, found ways to cope. Will you get out of their way while they do that, please?
Just get over all the emotion about it and get straight that abortion rights MUST exist for women to have clear opportunities in life equal to those of men. It's just a fact.
And in the meantime, stop calling yourself 'njprogressive'. This constant hand-wringing is about as progressive as Obama's ridiculous remark about struggling with his feelings about gays. Feelings, feelings. You know what? I don't care about his feelings or your feelings about these issues any longer. It's utterly narcissistic of Obama to make such a stupid remark. It's not about him! It's about rights. Give me my rights and shut up.
I'm so tired of people playing this "emotion" card with the abortion "debate."
Nobody can speak for the millions of women who have abortions about WHY they do it or WHAT they feel about the procedure. It's none of your business! There are as many emotions about it as there are women. Bottom line is it doesn't matter what feelings a woman has about it. IT IS HER BODY AND HER DECISION. So stop with the faux-concern about women's decisions about their bodies. You aren't fooling anybody into believing you "care" about these women or children in general.
Abortion is a medical procedure; nothing more. I know several women for whom having an abortion was a huge relief and they couldn't wait to get that clump of cells sucked out of them. In fact, one of them went out and celebrated with her girlfriends the next day that it was done.
I want to know where the "appendectomy" debate is. Why don't people get up in arms about that? Or the "gallbladder debate?" Where is that one? Or the "thyroidectomy" debate? "Nobody wants to have their internal organs ripped from their body." It's funny that we NEVER hear that debate happening.
Nope, the abortion "debate" comes down to men (and women who oppose abortion) being terrified of women's power. Not just sexual power, but power in general.
But yeah he is losing political capital by the day. Every time he opens his mouth he says something offensive. On the economic stuff, he's completely clueless so it's not even worth listening to him. But abortion and gay rights - horrifying. Does he truly believe that fundie Xtians are going to vote for him in droves in 2012 that it is worth throwing these other constituencies in their entirety?
we should just ignore his language--i.e. he's aware that the gays "feel victimized" and wrestles with his "concern and regard" for the gays? his complete lack of action on DADT and his harmful actions re: DOMA?
we should take comfort cause he belongs to a liberal church? is that the argument? i'd prefer a leader with integrity, thank you very much.
i think reverend wright is over the top in many of his comments. i certainly don't agree with him and wouldn't have attended a church where such views were spouted.... but then again, obama threw him under the bus long ago, didn't he?
i recognize the track marks . . .
it's a reflection of obama's integrity, character, or lack thereof.
I'll be damned if I am going to stand behind a dump-truck when it is beeping. If we don't try and stop it we are either going to get killed or buried in garbage.
If you get dunked in the river and you float like a fish, you're evil.
Would you sit there silent and just hoped that it went away or do you tell your doctor? If he still continues on the same path, do you get a new doctor involved?
I do.
Personally I am here to gain ground on progressive issues and I will not compromise key issues. I will not stand for retreat, which frankly, sounds like what you are calling for. You can say you are progressive, but you do not sit down to take a break while pushing a boulder uphill.
When a public poll reads over 70% in favor of progress, you have a super majority, and control 2/3 of the federal government you do not take a break, and you certainly do not loose ground.
Sorry to hear about your loss. Cancer is a tragedy.
Edit: I've been inspired by metaphors and similes from all the recent Palin coverage. Deal with it. You don't shoot the ball when there is a fish in the river.
Frankly, I would rather have a great debate in working towards whatever goal is set, while keeping in mind that "you can't always get (everything) you want".
I will do everything in my personal power to bordering on the irrational (but mostly legal) to keep the movement from retreating. As long as we don't move backwards, I'm not crazy.
You ask this question as if there is merely only one answer. For goodness sake, each and every case has numerous answers and it is for the woman (and man) to discern what is right for them.
Now one more point, what the heck are you talking about?
If you don't pass the ball after eating fish from the river, you will float upstream.
"Only a dead fish floats down stream"
'What ever she was saying about passing the ball in basketball'
I wish I could write like L. Carol. It would be like a non-stop mind blowjob.
We do not have a Church running this country, we have the President and Congress doing that and getting everything F**ked-up, BTW.
Obama has to express this moreso, because the Gays and Lesbian did however voted for him, He needs to get rid of DADT. I understand that most states have the gay marriage law in effect, where they can marry and most states should reconize that they are married.
Women who gets an abortion, majority do so, because of an illness, financial, and some uses this as a birth control, now the later is stupid though. I may not have had one, but I knew people who did, and yes they feel a sense of emptiness, but they knew it was for the best.
I guess we'll have to wait for him to go through some cathartic "change we can believe in" until he has come around to "feeling" like we deserve to be treated as equals.
I love the man as much as any progressive but this is interesting at best, scary at worst!!!
HE IS A MEMBER OF THE UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST.
THE UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST BACKS AND HOLDS GAY MARRIAGES!!!
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/05/national/05ch...
He's just giving us another heap of BS.
Oh well...disillusionment has become rather comfortable so I guess I shouldn't complain.
We have a little thing called the 1st Amendment.
If people were to follow the Constitution, as written, right now... There would be no DOMA. There would be full federal marriage equality.
There would be no laws that discriminate against us.
By neglecting to point out that theocratic law is unconstitutional, he justifies the heterosexist/homophobic legal efforts of the Catholic Church.
This is because he presents the issue as an arbitrary personal matter -- as if the Constitutional rights of gay people are to be decided on personal whims. He justifies the theocratic aggression of the Church by completely ignoring our citizenship.