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he knows what he's doing, he knows how to explain it, he does explain it and he's open to feedback.
omg.
He expects to be President soon-he can write his own FISA changes.
Telecom Immunity?
Could this bill be much worse with McCain as President?
http://bubblemeter.blogspot.com/2008/06/bank-of...
Dodd already has issues with his cozy association with banks and Mortgage companies.
Countrywide's VIP loan to Dodd, which saves the Banking Committee chairman $75,000 over 30 years, smells like a potential quid-pro-quo now that Dodd has pushed a bill that will save the company from itself, but what about Bank of America's behavior?
Bank of America's political action committee (PAC) has donated $20,000 to Dodd since he became chairman of the banking panel 17 months ago. From January 2007 to March 2008, Bank of America employees have donated at least $50,400 to Dodd's campaigns, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. So, while Dodd's sweetheart loan from Countrywide saves him personally $200 per month, his chairmanship earns him politically more than $1,000 per week.
There are far too many sweetheart deals with our Washington representatives who only care about themselves and their handlers.
My comment to the thread:
Can someone from the campaign make the following assurances to those of us concerned about Obama voting for the FISA bill even if the telecom civil immunity remains:
1) Can he assure us that all findings of the Inspector General's investigation will be made public for all to see, no matter how embarrassing it may be for elected officials who did the politically expedient thing by allowing the lawbreaking in the first place?
2) Can he assure us that, regardless of what comes out of any investigations, he fully intends to prosecute any discovered criminal acts to the fullest extent of the law?
I understand that the bill offers no criminal immunity to anyone. Only protection from civil ($$$) lawsuits. please assure us that his Attorney General will actually take this seriously and prosecute. Those who have violated our 4th amendment / privacy rights deserve to rot in jail.
Retroactive immunity, though completely unwarranted, is just a small piece of the FISA puzzle. The real problem with current FISA and the pending FISA fold (the only real albatross hanging from Obama's neck that could strangle his chances at the White House) is that FISA does not give anyone a chance to discover that warrantless wiretaps have occurred. The FISA fold is even more atrocious in this regard, completely ignoring the 4th Amendment rights of ordinary citizens.
Obama, in the absence of his cowardice and flawed political acumen, could have simpy let FISA stand and redo it with a complicit Congress if he gets elected. Instead, he threw the 4th Amendment out the door and left the door open by providing the imprimatur of the FISA fold for subsequent violations of the 4th Amendment by future adminstrations, including a Bush III.
A good summary can be found in the 7/2/08 decision of the district court (Northern District of California) actually considering FISA as currently written. I would urge all to read this opinion "In re NSA Telecommunications Records Litiigation" (Docket No. 06-1791 VRW) before listening to talking heads here or elswhere.
The court in this case goes over current FISA, its history and the difficulty to hold the government (primarily the executive) responsible for warrantless intrusions. The FISA fold solves this problem by completely shutting the door on any inquiry and/or telco immunity in the future.
Failure and facism unbound.
His comment is just more of the same thing he has been saying, and the comments that are being posted are mostly just more of the same rah-rah crap that seem to flood his website. Its good that he at least made a response to those that supported him, but it doesn't look like it even made an impact on his decision to support the FISA bill as is. I find it amusing that he said that "the FISA bill that passed the House is far from perfect". No Barack. It's not far from perfect, its an absolute disgrace. And anyone that votes for it is not in the least bit a progressive forward thinking candidate. Tell me, what was wrong with the FISA law that used to be in effect before the current administration started scaring the crap out of the weak minded people in this country and fooled congress into thinking we needed the ability to spy on Americans without a warrant? Absolutely ridiculous.
By the way, earlier today the Obama site went down for maintainence. When it came back up it no longer showed the number of members of the anti-FISA group that had grown to the largest group on his site last night. These folks have been and will remain busy smearing lipstick on the pig that is Barack's FISA failure.
The only thing we learn from this comment board is that the campaign has gotten our messages regards his FISA stance. They can cheer lead all they want, but it will not change the fact that many of us are holding our donations. That's the reason for their post - Damage control.
This once golden candidate at this golden moment in our history, squandering the wellspring of support for the change he promised.
Goddamnit!
Also the timing of Obama's reaffirmnation of his cowardice is amusing, late in the afternoon right before a three day weekend. His PR group must be the same folks that advise failing Wall Street frims and Dow components.
The folks in thr Obama campaign must feel sdo good about themselves now.
If a person, a candidate, cannot stand by the Bill of Rights, they have lost me. Period. The Bill of Rights is non-negotiable. Anyone, IMHO, that does not, or is not willing to stand by that, does not, IMHO, deserve to be elected to ANY office.
Peace
Those that talk about small cocks are usually the ones who have them or have them involuntarily inserted into their bum by those that they trusted, literally and/or figuratively.
But, he doesn't need to kiss ass to the extreme right to win. Obama is miles and miles ahead of McCain. Bush has so disgraced the right, we could put up a pig and it would win ... [sigh!] yeah we did. My guess is Obama lost more supporters on the left than he won on the right. He's losing me. I've always held the option of voting for an alternate, Cynthia McKinney, Ralph Nader, write in Kucinich or even Mickey Mouse, Pluto Pup, Rocky the Flying Squirrel, etc. McCain isn't the only other choice on the ballot. Even if everyone who visits this site voted for the alternates, do you really think Obama will lose to McCain?
Yet Obama is supposed to vote against a bill that is going to PASS ANYWAY even though doing so WON'T HELP the bill and will only give Republicans ammunition to paint him as a weak, wimpy, terrorist appeaser which kills Dems in every election.
Perhaps if you took your head out of your ass long enough, you could see reason.
How is it James Inhofe can practically shut down the Senate on a whim, but the Dem Majority can't table or throw out a bad bill?
Neither does pandering to the right. The only that Obama could get them to vote for him was if his next commercial were to feature a noose about his neck with his blood oath to lynch 100 N---- in every city and town in America. All he does by pandering to right is diminish the number of us on the left who will vote for him.
I never vote for politicians based on what they say during a campaign. That is a lesson you need to learn.
If a person, a candidate, cannot stand by the Bill of Rights, they have lost me. Period. The Bill of Rights is non-negotiable. Anyone, IMHO, that does not, or is not willing to stand by that, does not, IMHO, deserve to be elected to ANY office.
Don't snark me. I'm trying to simmah down my reaction to Obama's sellout with, y'know: mirth
Oh, we can get it back? LMAO Have you ever seen any government give back ANY rights to the people once they have taken them? Anywhere? Any government?
We have been had. Once again. By a smooth talker who cannot, will not, walk the walk.
If we had a larger majority, we wouldn't have this problem, but it is what it is and Obama's vote is not a deciding one. Regardless how he votes, the bill will pass.
If you think the Bill of Rights is in jepoardy now, just wait until we have 3 more justices like Roberts and Scalia.
It is all over now except for the crying and for Obama wiping telco CEO cum from his chin.
Fabulous logic.
I shut off that spigot when he folded on his promise not to fold. Not another dime will go that direction.
That being said, I would rather chew off my own arms than to vote republican. I won't vote against Obama, but I won't vote for him either. And, I can count at least 8 other people locally that have said the same thing.
Better luck next time, I suppose.
Sorry, but recent House elections in Republican strongholds prove this statement to be wildly exaggerated. The Dems ran against the FISA bill and the Republicans hit hard on the issue. In every instance, the Republican lost.
All Obama is doing is losing votes with this move. Mine included.
So you really believe the 'hicks' passionately care so about immunity for the telecoms that they will vote for Obama on this particular issue? I highly doubt it. He's pro-choice and rejects any effort to overturn gay marriage in CA, but Obama's FISA stance will win them all over, right? LOL
And which 'hick' state do you think Obama is now going to win exactly? The only one he has a legitimate chance in is Virginia and it isn't even because of the 'hicks'. It's because more northerners are migrating to the northern part of the state causing the state to become bluer.
As stated earlier below, retroactive immunity, though completely unwarranted, is just a small piece of the FISA puzzle. The real problem with current FISA and the pending FISA fold (the only real albatross hanging from Obama's neck that could strangle his chances at the White House) is that FISA does not give anyone a chance to discover that warrantless wiretaps have occurred. The FISA fold is even more atrocious in this regard, completely ignoring the 4th Amendment rights of ordinary citizens.
Obama, in the absence of his cowardice and flawed political acumen, could have simpy let FISA stand and redo it with a complicit Congress if he gets elected. Instead, he threw the 4th Amendment out the door and left the door open by providing the imprimatur of the FISA fold for subsequent violations of the 4th Amendment by future adminstrations, including a Bush III adminstration driven by Obama's capitulation and cowardice.
I urge you to read the 7/2/08 decision of the district court (Northern District of California) actually considering FISA as currently written. "In re NSA Telecommunications Records Litiigation" (Docket No. 06-1791 VRW) before listening to talking heads here or elswhere.
The court in this case goes over current FISA, its history and the difficulty to hold the government (primarily the executive) responsible for warrantless intrusions. The FISA fold solves this problem by completely shutting the door on any inquiry and/or telco immunity in the future.
Failure and facism unbound.
I agree with everything you said and respect what you are doing, but I still plan to vote for Obama and do not rule out enthusiastically supporting Obama again down the line. This just happens to be a really bad two weeks and I still want to hold out hope that he can win me and others back.
Some folks just can't believe that everyone doesn't just blindly support a candidate after they get on board with them. If I wanted a moderate/centrist as our nominee, I would have supported Hillary. She's much better at being one of those.
Luckily we have 4 months to go and Obama still has a chance to make some wrongs right.
His pro-FISA stance goes completely against his "change" campaign. I gave to him after he got me fired up. But now that he is acting against We The People ad the US Constitution, he has made me lose complete enthusiasm for him. Obama is losing supporters and he keeps digging himself deeper by ignoring the will of the people.
Win or lose on the FISA vote, he should have not supporting the bill period. He did worse by showing unshamelessly support.
Too bad Obama lost a major # of suppoerters with this.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/05/14/family...
Glenn Greenwald
http://utdocuments.blogspot.com/2008/07/obamas-...
All you folks at the Obama headquarters should be so proud of the hours spent defenfding Obama's failed and defenseless republican position on this issue, hours spent contributing to the further demise of America.