AMERICAblog: Oh yeah, now the Mormons want to place nice. Too late.
OrleansCatalan
· 1 year ago
HEY MORMANS!
Stop pushing your hateful lifestyle on me and my family!
jprfrog
· 1 year ago
I usually try to be polite even when accosted by strangers. A few weeks ago, walking along JFK Boulevard in Northern Jersey City, I was approached by two men wearing ID badges, white shirts, and ties. The badges said they were Elders, although they looked very young (anybody under 40 is a kid to me, and these were barely in their twenties). Before they could really launch their spiel, I told them to spend their time more productively, as I was a Jew and an atheist and those were two very steep hills for them to climb. I didn't thank them for baptizing me in absentia, just in case the LDS is right about the afterlife, nor did I point out that as a professional musician the idea of listening to the Tabernacle Choir for all eternity sounded more like Hell than Heaven. As I said, I try to be polite.
But after this latest "shanda" (Yiddish for shameful behavior) I won't be the next time they approach me, if they should do so.
I am completely straight but as a minority in a minority (I am a short Red-diaper baby who plays classical music for a living) I know somewhat how feels to be prejudged.
AS said, I am an atheist, but on two occasions recently I have fervently hoped that there is an afterlife: on the deaths respectively of Jerry Falwell and Jesse Helms.
And I do wish those braying Xtians would actually read the Bible once in a while, not just "Left Behind" and Revelation. Start with Matthew 5:6.
bbock
· 1 year ago
Elder just means male missionary. It has nothing to do with age. They are ordained and can do baptisms. But they can be 18 years old. Here's a good resource, I think: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elder_(Latter_Day_...)
bill__free
· 1 year ago
"Gay people are fed up and have learned a thing or two about mobilizing themselves"
and others who hate those who wear their religion on their arm and try to force their adgenda on others. I am not gay, but support your cause. Why not see how many straight people support your cause? It is not the gays against the mormons, but many more agree with you. Stop making it the gays vs mormons.
Steve_in_CNJ
· 1 year ago
the mormons have been bankrolling anti-gay amendments for 15 years, starting in hawaii and alaska and spreading like cancer across the country. their assault on gays in california was the last straw. it's not about straight people supporting "our" cause. it's about ALL people supporting dignity, equality and fundamental rights -- that should be your cause too. mormons have relentlessly targeted a vulnerable minority and now it is their turn to be targeted. in an earlier era, boycotts in places like montgomery and memphis were very effective in raising awareness, much more so than passive pleading and begging and kumbaya.
bill__free
· 1 year ago
I put in quotes what was in the article. I was trying to explain that THE AUTHOR framed the issue as "Gay people are fed up and have learned a thing or two about MOBILIZING THEMSELVES".
Possibly it should have read, "Gay people are fed up and have learned a thing or two about MOBILIZING THEMSELVES AND OTHER LIKE MINDED PEOPLE".
It's not just the gays that are against what the mormons have done
am sure that you have a better way of wording it since I don't have great writing skills.
I post here just to throw ideas out, and I hope those with a better writing skills will take them and reword them, if they see a good idea
Thanks, sent the link to a couple hundred of my gay and straight neighborhood folks.
Kes
· 1 year ago
I'm all for using the post-election leftover adrenaline to launch a massive campaign. If they can do ballot initiatives and massive fundraising drives, why can't we?
I think we should start a huge fundraising push for Lambda Legal and start planning ballot initiatives for 2009 and 2010.
It's also time to start working our Congressional representatives, especially the new freshmen. Harass the Republican representatives, too. We need to be louder.
bbock
· 1 year ago
Read the Time article. It doesn't look like we were out-spent. We had plenty of money to get the job done. WHAT was done and what wasn't done was the problem. We need to be smarter than that. The NO campaign wasted a lot of money, it would appear. I'd love to see an accounting.
prochoicelib
· 1 year ago
This whole reasoning behind their opposition to gay marraige based on the bible is bull, and I'm quite sick of it. I'm married, heterosexual, but do I believe my marraige has anything to do with God. No. We got married at the court house. It's an agreement with me and my spouse, and the legal license enables us to care for ourselves and our dependants.
Does the Mormon church believe because I was married in a civil service that my marraige doesn't count, shouldn't count? Should every married person hold these biblical beliefs in order to obtain a marriage license?
These religious people need to mind their own damned business. Period. Especially if they are not from California.
OrleansCatalan
· 1 year ago
Mormon Prophet Brigham Young wrote:
Marriage is a civil contract. You might as well make a law to say how many children a man shall have, as to make a law to say how many wives he shall have. (Journal of Discourses, 11:268-9)
bbock
· 1 year ago
I am gay and I was married at a church. And oddly enough, I didn't force the church to marry me. She was quite happy to do it. Honored, she said. And we were honored to have her perform our ceremony. Unitarian Universalists are honorable and kind people.
okojo
· 1 year ago
John,
Just look at who Summit County in Utah voted for in 2008 presidential election... (Summit County: home of most of Utah ski areas and Sundance film festival)
Not everyone in Utah is a member of the LDS..
Not everyone in Utah agree with conservative politics..
If you really want to hurt the LDS, hit them where they will go nuts...
Missionary work/proselytizing..
I ski, mainly backcountry ski, and boycotting Park City, Alta or even Brian Head isn't going to sway the LDS, actually they will savor it.
DavidinPS
· 1 year ago
I appreciate where you are coming from, but we are at war now. We need to act like it. I'm sure not every Japanese approved of bombing Pearl Harbor, but to not react out of deference to them would have been suicidal. I think celebs publicly refusing to step foot in Utah is just the sort of publicity that the Mormons will hate. They have long prided themselves, as most grifters do, on working under the radar--anything that shines the bright light on them and promotes examination of this dangerous cult is exactly what is needed. I also have no problem boycotting Mormon owned businesses--whether national or the local Mom and Pop. Remember, to be in good stead with the church, everyone tithes 10% of their income. Maybe if enough members start to hurt they will stand up to their leaders and ask what the hell they were thinking when they pulled this "Yes on 8" crap. We can start with Marriot Hotels and Albertson's super markets.
wahoomatt
· 1 year ago
As far as I am concerned, the Mormon Church has decided to define itself as a Hate Group. I don't do business with Nazis, Skinheads, Klansmen, or Mormons.
okojo
· 1 year ago
Well, first many Mormons in Utah don't ski. They are too busy raising their monster families and have too many expenses to hit the slopes. Second, Summit County would love to get the LDS off their back on certain things like changing Utah's alcohol laws, so they don't have to explain the Utah laws to out of staters when they sit down for dinner, or want to go to a bar.
If there is a target you want to aim at LDS in California. They are a huge group.
Utah is much more than the LDS, and not all Utahans are Oren Hatch sychophants.
okojo
· 1 year ago
Wait a minute.. This was a proposition, not sneak attack bombing, or car bombings in West Hollywood sponsored by the LDS. There is a good chance that the proposition will be struck down in Court..
If you want to feel this is war, the battleground isn't Utah, it is California. Declare War on every group that voted in the majority for this proposition, Have Gays boycott Hollywood for not doing enough to defeat this, punished every brokerage firm in SF, every silicon valley firm whether they supported "No on 8" or not, boycott any produce coming from California. Go after the Knights of Columbus, the Tele Novela actor who did a Spanish Language ad in support of "Yes on 8"...
The LDS isn't Utah. The LDS is a big part of Idaho, Arizona, Eastern Oregon, and I grew up with many Mormons in California. If you want to declare war, then go to all those States and raise hell, go after the LDS affiliation with the Boy Scouts.
I understand that Gays across the country are angry, but to aim a boycott at Summit County, Utah, where Sundance Film Festival takes place or boycott the Utah Ski Industry will backfire. The LDS would love that.. If you want to "take no prisoners" then it is a combination of Mormon money and social conservatives that made the Prop 8 a reality. However, it could be a complete waste of money on the Mormons and others part, given that the courts will strike it down... There are many legal pratfalls and a couple gordian knots in Prop 8 that the Courts may not want to undo.
Steve_in_CNJ
· 1 year ago
not everybody in montgomery was a racist during the bus boycott in 1956 but most fair-minded citizens supported it. MLK Jr supported it. there were some downsides (violence against blacks became more overt) but it is widely regarded as a successful piece of the long march towards civil rights in the south.
okojo
· 1 year ago
I wouldn't compare passing an odious proposition to state gov't enforced racism and segregation in the South. I understand that many in the LG community are pissed off to no ends, as they should be after the slugfest to get married in California.
If Silverlake, West Hollywood, parts of the Castro and the Mission district were getting car bombs from Homophobe groups, then I think the analogy of Civil Rights Movement is appropriate.
Take a step back, a good battleground where Prop 8 proponents can be defeated are the Courts.
This was a proposition, not de jure implaced segregation...
Steve_in_CNJ
· 1 year ago
i'm not interested in debating degrees of suffering and oppression -- that all depends on individual experiences. if you want me to acknowledge that the little girls in the alabama church bombing suffered more than matthew shepard or the 10s of thousands who died agonizing deaths from AIDS while the government withheld life-saving information, I'll say okay just to move the discussion forward. but there is no reason for avoiding comparisons between different civil rights struggles. anti-marriage laws are the present-day form of separate but equal and denying spousal immigration rights to gay couples is arguably worse than other types of segregation. numerically you could argue that the 3/5 clause in the constitution is less onerous than the 1/2 rule that divides couples in 2. but all this is pointless. you have to stop bristling and getting defensive whenever minorities try to learn from each other's struggles.
lucky hussein
· 1 year ago
how do you 'hit' them on missionary work?
okojo
· 1 year ago
Get countries that have LDS missionaries, probably in Europe to put them on notice, or get them banned, but mainly raise a stink, most likely in European Nations that have legitimize Same Sex Partnerships. Cause division with LDS with another odious organization like the Catholic Church... The Catholic Church may be as homophobic as the LDS, but they hate the LDS going into Catholic Countries and proselytizing, like in Chile.
Basically throw monkey wrenches, (the phrase came from Utah Resident: Edward Abbey) into the LDS systems, and their most prize system is their Missionary Work.
I am just describing if you want to kick the LDS in the nuts, this is where are the family jewels are located.
lucky hussein
· 1 year ago
not specific enough. boycott utah - that's specific..
prochoicelib
· 1 year ago
Oh, and the Mormons shouldn't be so high and mighty about marriage, considering they had to give up the practice of having more than one wife to join the union.
Will they fund a new initiative to legalize polygamy, because it's in the bible?
DavidinPS
· 1 year ago
One of the memes that keeps popping up is that the Mormons should know about persecution because of their history. What isn't said is that much of the persecution was due to the fact that they pulled exactly this same sort of shit everywhere they moved--taking over and strong arming the local politics. And guess what--people got pissed. The Mormons are a secretive, conning, duplicitous, strong arming, almost Mafioso like cult of grifters and need to be treated as such--no matter how many Stepford like smiling faces they put forward. One of my favorite little known facts about them is their belief in "Lying For The Lord". It is a tenet they practice which says it is absolutely fine to tell an outright lie if it is in defense of the LDS church or promotes its agenda. If you ask them about it, guess what? They lie. That explains those "Yes on 8" ads filled with complete falsehoods. It might also be a warning about believing anything Mitt Romney may have to say in the next few years. A big item in the Mormon agenda is to infiltrate the government. First through smaller orgs like the Boy Scouts which they already run ( ever scratch your head wondering what the big deal about letting atheists and gays participate is?). The FBI is filled with a wildly disproportionate number of Mormons-which if it doesn't scare the shit out of you, should. The Presidency would be the icing on the cake--think of all the appointments! And they will do anything to get there. Even lie to your face while smiling. We dismiss these folks at our peril.
Upland_Oddball
· 1 year ago
It such suffice to recall that 1) J. Edgar Hoover had a fetish-like attachment toward recuriting, hriing and promoting Mormons within the FBI. And 2) that in his latter days, Howard Hughes infused his own body with fluids taken from Mormon donors. How creepy is that?
"Civility, with respect and with love..." my arse, I have a close friend who is an openly gay morman....He has an "appointment" once a year to see his parents! This is around Christmas time...other times they keep in touch via a "family" newsletter....his parents got maried in their very early teens....Have you been to Salt Lake City lately? Well I have and it is not a pretty sight....HOMELESS FOLKS EVERYWHERE! Sad, so sad.
cwzilla
· 1 year ago
`Me thinks the magic underware is being worn a tad too tight
TomsOld
· 1 year ago
How big was the rally that shut down LA?
okojo
· 1 year ago
It didn't shut down LA, it cause a mess on the Westside, especially the Freeways, but LA is too big to shut down, The LA Riots in 1992 didn't shut down LA,. The only things that shut down LA is an 8.0 earthquake
Gary SF
· 1 year ago
It would be much effective and visible to target a few Mormon-owned business for boycott. Boycotting a State can be effective, but it takes a lot of time. Boycotting the Marriott, Mormon-owned radio stations (and their sponsors) such as 100.3 FM in Los Angeles (The Sound LA) would be easier. If someone in LA could listen to that station, get a list of their advertisers and post them here, we could start writing letters.
And indeed it is owned by Bonneville, which is basically the Mormon's business arm ( one of them).
DavidinPS
· 1 year ago
100.3 The Sound 5900 Wilshire Blvd. 19th Floor Los Angeles, CA 90036 (323) 634-1800
Bonneville International 55 North 300 West Salt Lake City UT 84101-3502 (801) 575-7500 (801) 575-7541 (fax)
Give 'em a call or a fax.
Gary SF
· 1 year ago
Thanks. It is much more effective to contact their advertisers. Bonneville is Mormon, so they don't give a crap about rights. But if one advertiser pulls their account because of a letter writing campaign or worse - a boycott of their product - that will hit the radio station where it counts - the the wallet.
DavidinPS
· 1 year ago
This from the Mormon owned radio station in LA.
"As we're launching the station, feel free to contact The Sound by email. ."
Pass it around. Maybe they need to have a little bump in their launch.
okojo
· 1 year ago
Hit the radio advertisers.. Go after group stockholders, (well they don't need much help given how awful the stock market has been) go after mutual funds that hold stock in the parent company etc.
JohnInTexas
· 1 year ago
And which hotel is it that Donnie and Marie are having their "comeback" show ? The Flamingo???
lucky hussein
· 1 year ago
I saw an ad for skiing in utah on the tv last night. I hope people will boycot them. Then perhaps they will understand the significance of why the state issues a marriage license and not the church.
okojo
· 1 year ago
A good paradigm of boycotts of ski areas is the TV show South Park. The attitude of Trey Parker and Matt Stone to Barbra Streisand's saber rattling of a boycott of Colorado ski areas, was met with mockery and a feeling of good riddance... The LDS would love a boycott of Summit County, Little Cottonwood Canyon and Big Cottonwood Canyon. The people on the fence, who worked for the Ski Industry, and either are not LDS members or don't care would just get pissed off and have the attitude of Trey Parker and Matt Stone: surliness.
Personally if you want to boycott anything, argula, mixed greens, and romaine lettuce. I think like 95% comes from California, from the Central Valley or Salinas County, Central Valley and Kern County are the very conservative parts of California, (Orange County has tempered to a more moderate position, even though Conservative money is still based there)
MikeinSanJo
· 1 year ago
Salinas is in Monterey County. There is no Salinas County. The city of Salinas is where I grew up. But Monterey County voted 52%-48% AGAINST Prop 8.
Yes, most vegetables in the country come from Salinas Valley (which spans multiple counties), as well as artichokes, mushrooms, strawberries, cherries, citrus, and garlic.
Be careful what you decide to boycott. Personally I would DIE without my garlic!!
Only the edges of California (where people live) is progressive. Those counties populated primarily by livestock tend to be very conservative.
okojo
· 1 year ago
Thanks for the correction. I am just stating if people thinks this is WAR, and no prisoners should be taken, then California should be boycotted than Utah. John and others want to boycott Summit County in Utah, which is pretty much the only democratic area of Utah.
Prop 8 went 50/50 in LA county. So I guess LA county must be punished?
Personally, I really think Prop 8 will be defeated in the courts, because it is about amending the State Constitution, and there are many pratfalls for it to actually to be amended
MikeinSanJo
· 1 year ago
Yeah, I have to admit, I think I agree. It's not really Utah that's the problem. In fact, non-Mormon and gay-friendly Utahns might be strong allies.
And I'm feeling it will be overturned as well.
scytherius
· 1 year ago
Oh to HELL with the Mormons. Am here in L.A. and the anger is palpable. Trying to find out where one of those protests are going to be but they seem to so pop up at last minute. But, as part of this, the backlash is huge against the Mormons.
And nothing pisses Mormon's off more than posting their secret Temlp Ceremony everywhere. Here it is. Feel free to post it everywhere.
This isn't going away in CA until gays are permitted to mary.
As an aside, I am a retired Attorney/Judge and have kept up with all pleadings filed. It's a case of first impression, to be sure, but I think the possiblity that Prop 8 will be ruled unconstitutional is high.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
Talk about a dull ritual . . . whew! That one makes Freemasonry look spritely!
scytherius
· 1 year ago
HAHA True. There are more rituals but that's the big one. What upsets them is if oyu know the names of the signs and tokens, secret handshakes etc. Say Pay Lay Ale to one of them and they will melt.
Joseph Smith was a mormon and this ceremony was stolen from the Masons.
ChicagoKid
· 1 year ago
Dude!?!?! WTF!!! Is there a Reader's Digest version?
Scientology is way more fun and spacey.
scytherius
· 1 year ago
HAHAHHAHA. No that's it. Yeah some dull shit. The big thing are the signs and token names. There are some more rituals in the Temple but that is the main one.
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
By the gods, Mormonism make Scietology look sane and rational. Someone needs to get video of temple services and post it all over YouTube. They just hate the sunshine.
jimfromthefoothills
· 1 year ago
lets treat this like the MLK holiday issue. ANY state that does not allow gay marriage should be boycotted.
henrythefifth
· 1 year ago
It's gonna be hard to boycott states where a lot of us live. :(
scytherius
· 1 year ago
And . . . I wanna know, what the HELL were you minorities thinking that voted FOR Prop 8? There is a special place in hell for those of you that did. Some of these people died for you and you won't let them marry? You disgust me.
RainbowPhoenix
· 1 year ago
Those lying cultists will rue the day they tried to take over our lives.
Indigo
· 1 year ago
When you say Mormon, you mean to include Roman Catholic, right?
sullivan
· 1 year ago
The Mormons were most influential in this......we start here and then go to the Catholic Church.
JohnInTexas
· 1 year ago
At least the Catholic's leave the front door unlocked. Mormon's are like a country club, they don't deserve tax exemption if they don't open their damn doors to the public.
RainbowPhoenix
· 1 year ago
It's not quite the same. The catholic church wasn't funneling large sums of its own money into this while ordering its faithful to do the same.
foxy
· 1 year ago
With the passage of Prop 8, the gay community has once again taken to the streets in numbers not seen since the days of ACT-UP or anti-Gulf War rallies. Here's the schedule for just this weekend:
Tonight, San Francisco Civic Center, 5:30 pm. From Civic Center (Market/7th) to Dolores Park. Facebook event. "We have contacted local media and several popular websites have posted the event. Dozens of people have donated their time to hand out flyers. We are protesting on Friday in San Francisco because it was in San Francisco that the California Supreme Court decided to give equality to LGBTQ people earlier this year and it made San Francisco very happy. After all the work that so many people around the country and the Bay Area did to get to the point where we were earlier this year, we're not going to sit by and do nothing..."
Long Beach, California: Friday, November 7, 2008, 6:45pm - 9:00pm, Broadway and Redondo. "We will march from Redondo to Alamitos (Hamburger Mary's), to tell Californians, the nation and the world that we are not second class citizens and we will not accept being treated that way."
Santa Barbara, California: Friday, November 7, 2008 Time: 5:00pm - 6:00pm Location: De La Guerra Plaza Street: [700-756] De La Guerra Plz.
A protest in Salt Lake City is planned: "If Jacob Whipple gets what he's hoping for, at least 1,000 Utahns will turn out Friday night to protest the involvement of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in helping pass Proposition 8, a California ballot measure that effectively killed, at least for now, same-sex marriages in that state. The call for people to gather at 6 p.m. at North Temple and State Street in Salt Lake City is to show solidarity with those protesting in California, Whipple explained."
SATURDAY:
This Saturday, November 8, 6pm, Gather at Sunset Junction in Silver Lake, Corner of Sunset Blvd. and Santa Monica Blvd, Los Angeles. Our reader Phillip Thomas writes: "There's a little event planned on Saturday afternoon. By little, I mean people are flying, driving, coming by bus and train for this. I heard on tv this evening that organizers are estimating 20,000 marchers for this. I think everyone needs to take part in this. Even if just for an hour or so. Numbers matter, and I can't think of anything that would be more memorable, historical, or significant that doing this on one Saturday evening. Forget the dinner, the mall, the bar, the movie, the relaxing night at home. If you have to work, call in or leave early. Add yourself to this crowd. Invite all of your friends, your coworkers, neighbors. Make a party out of it."
sullivan
· 1 year ago
Where is the HRC stand onthis? Oh yeah, they just sent us another fund-raising letter! Pathetic!
bbock
· 1 year ago
I stopped giving to HRC. They never seem to do anything but raise money to pay their staff and their offices. They should have been front and center on this before it passed.
Upland_Oddball
· 1 year ago
The only fit fate for any and all HRC fund-raising letters is to line the floor of a bird cage. Perferably the cage of large parrots with chronic diarrhea.
DLR
· 1 year ago
This is an interesting article on how out organized the No on 8 campaign was. http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081124/kim. Essentially there was no real outreach to the ethnic communities until it was too late. When will the GLBT community learn that it needs to be more inclusive of minorities and minority communities? At least the majority of Asian and Pacific Islanders voted No on 8.
EarthquakeWeather
· 1 year ago
Yep, this is just as I suspected. The lgbt "leaders" got punked. And the community didn't really mobilize until marriage was taken away. I think we must be more used to responding as victims. Whatever. Now it's game on. It's time to call out the bigots and make them explain themselves.
Deacon_Blues
· 1 year ago
Any response from Robert Redford? Or anyone in Hollywood?
mirth
· 1 year ago
I was reared in the Mormon church. My father held the highest position in the melkizedek priesthood and my mother was president of every church organization open to females. What DavidinPS and others write here is true.
Boycotts - Yes! But equally important is to keep the spotlight on this secretive religion. That's what they most fear.
DavidinPS
· 1 year ago
Thanks for the confirmation Mirth.
sullivan
· 1 year ago
I don't understand what secrets they would fear me knowing?
I was also a Bishop and Stake President until I saw what was really going on there and left the Church. They HATE the spotlight. Keep it on strong as you can.
green_libertarian
· 1 year ago
"I was reared in the Mormon church. My father held the highest position in the melkizedek priesthood and my mother was president of every church organization open to females."
Whoa... You seen to have recovered quite well tho...
mirth
· 1 year ago
green,
Being free of a cult and it's teachings (and a host of other church and family related dysfunctions) was not easy. Ask scytherius below. But whatever in me caused me to see the wrong of it all is the light that now guides my happy and fulfilled life.
David Liao
· 1 year ago
I wish to be damned to hell if heaven is filled with the Mormon church.
littleponygirl
· 1 year ago
argh!! what happened to separation of Church and State? America is letting a Cult dictate our values? Say it aint' so!! Put a Tourniquet on their pockets and stop hate the old-fashioned way - on their bottom line.
lemonyellow
· 1 year ago
Don't let the Mormons try to pull that shit here in Connecticut. If they come here, they'll hit a wall.
catdance
· 1 year ago
Connecticut's own Brian Brown, formerly of the Family Institute of Connecticut, was instrumental in forcing Chapter 8 on California, via his latest organization National Organization for Marriage (NOM). We in CT should encourage anything that brings the pervert Brian Brown and his girlfriend Maggie Gallagher down so that they no longer get rich off causing misery to others.
Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas
· 1 year ago
Not so fast is right. Since they have violated the laws concerning the pulpit and promoting political agendas, the government needs to strip away their tax exempt status. I find it horribly ironic that these assholes in Salt Lake are dictating marriage law when they themselves are bigamists and polygamists. They are a cult, they are pigs, and they have way too much tithed money to fuck with my civil rights. Let the boycotts and nasty shit begin. You wanna play dirty? You are fucking with the wrong faggots.
JohnInTexas
· 1 year ago
We're lucky here in Fort Worth in Dallas to a point, we have many gay owned and gay friendly businesses to spend our money. Lately I've started paying more attention to where I shop, and who gets my $$$, be it restaurant, groceries, or entertainment. Glad I'm not into chicken shacks or I'd just have to suffer. lol
henrythefifth
· 1 year ago
I'll be skiing somewhere besides Utah this year and for the future. There's good powder other places as well. I agree w/ the boycott concept John, hope it gets organized. There has to be consequences to this bigotry.
I had a response from them within hours of my intentions to cancel all my engagements in that state of hate.
michael_carr
· 1 year ago
One could start with action at home, and request that Google stop running ads for Mormon singles–or anything Mormon-related for that matter.
bbock
· 1 year ago
They want to heal the rift? Fine. Give me my fucking marriage back you inbred cult following racist homophobic bastards!
Sorry. That was intolerant. I've been a bit cranky.
Let's hit them in the balls repeatedly until they can't reproduce anymore. (Metaphorically, of course.)
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
The Mormons want Gay People to be happy little subhumans.
Displacedtex
· 1 year ago
Having lived in Utah for 10 years, I think the Church leadership would actually prefer that we were all dead. The leadership becomes especially nervous about stories of missionary companions returning to Zion as lovers. I learned from my gay buddies in SLC that one reason the deer season is so popular in Utah is that it gives former missionary lovers the chance to spend time together in the woods, a la Broken Mountain. Utah is LOADED with great gay relationships.
TrappedinaRedState
· 1 year ago
Tell us who the bastards are and we'll all boycott! I've already changed my travel plans to go to California in February and I'm never staying in another Marriott or any of their related properties again. I refuse to even change planes in Utah. Arkansas? Well - I'd never set foot in that state anyway.
I live in Florida and temporarily there's nothing I can do about that but as soon as I find out who the people were who financed the Amendment 2 initiative here they won't get any more of my money.
Is there someplace that has a list of the people who supported and fought against these initiatives? Give us the tools and we'll show them the consequences of their actions!
no
· 1 year ago
i stopped buying Mars products after those horrible NFL commercials and haven't eaten not even 1 single m&m since then -- i also haven't bought or eaten any girl scout cookies or supported boy scouts or the salvation army in YEARS
i also will be adding marriott to my list of banned companies and will make sure they know it
let's keep it up -- this isn't an election or political issue, this is an american equality and human and civil rights issue
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
Girl Scouts deserve your support. They are not a de facto arm of the LDS like the Boy Scouts; GSs do not discriminate.
heyduke
· 1 year ago
How about a boycott of California: Total dollars contributed to support the ban 25 million from CA and 11 million from out of state. Total dollars from out of state to oppose the ban is 12 million more than a million coming from Utah. How about making the people who voted for this dreadful proposal pay. I believe what the Mormon Church did is reprehensible but to punish a state that didn't have a vote in this seems silly.
Upland_Oddball
· 1 year ago
The boycott should be directed at the real interests of the Mormon Church. The LDS is a wordly entity with businesses and investments, and it is these that should be targeted and harmed. Many people in Utah chafe under the oppressive hand of the LDS and need our support, not our adding to their burden. The same energy to boycott and target should also be directed at the Dobson empire. First move, target CBS radio to cancel Dobson's radio commentaries. It has been years since I have listened to CBS radio so I dpn't know if he still has that forumto spread his treacle, but if he still does, it has to end now.
lisainWA
· 1 year ago
I understand the backlash against Mormons and I'm happy to boycott them and the businesses they own but what I want to know is who voted for Prop 8? There aren't that many mormons in California. The majority of people that voted for this are christian... even the religious left.
nicho
· 1 year ago
Shut the bastards down:
Organize a call-in day. Publish the numbers for the LDS in SLC and have every gay person in the US call to complain on a certain day. We can shut down the phone system. Repeat as often as necessary.
We can follow up with emails. A couple of million emails on one day shoould crash their servers.
Chrissy
· 1 year ago
My thoughts:
1) Yes on 8 financial documents -- They need to be looked over with a fine toothed comb. I have a feeling the Mormon Church (which by the way reported only something like 4K worth of in-kind donations) gave a ton more in-kind than they are reporting. Once this is found out, complaints need to be filed with the state charging the mormons with not accurately reporting their involvement.
2) We need to pick boycott targets that gays and their supporters can easily affect. Even though the Sundance Film Festival is probably one of the gay friendliest festivals around, if you travel there you are still financing Utah through sales and hotel taxes. It's a tough call, but it would be the easiest to make an affect on.
3) This Sunday, people need to protest individual mormon churches. Unlike other churches, the Mormons are all one big church. No Mormon church is run independently, but is controlled financially and doctrinally from a spoke and wheel organization that is based in Utah.
4) These protests need to happen once a month.
nicho
· 1 year ago
And we all need to wear home-made temple garments when we protest.
I have a feeling they won't like that.
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
Recite 'Pay Lay Ale' 3x while moving your hands from over your head to your side. It;s a goofy prayer thing for them.
Displacedtex
· 1 year ago
Nicho's performative propositions are absolutely brilliant! Yes! Home-made Temple garments would definitely do the trick. Is there a pattern? CALLING ALL FORMER MORMONS! CALLING ALL FORMER MORMONS! If the spirit moves---and you feel comfortable sharing---there are, I believe some rather secretive words spoken only in the Temple. If we knew them, we could incorporate them into our public performances. I know this is asking a lot, and you may not be able to comply. AdmNaismith has the right idea!
beautydies
· 1 year ago
This is a really interesting comment..do you realize you are becoming what you supposedly "hate?" Gay protestors preach about tolerance and acceptance, yet you want to protest by attacking a very personal part of a religion? Truth is, it wouldn't matter if you tromp around in homemade garments or have an ex-member tell you the ordinances that are made by members in their temple so you can slander them. Members of the church may have helped with a lot of the funding, but the majority of the population (non-mormon) didn't want Gay marriage in California, ignorant protesting will not solve that. You can look at the presidential election for proof. Mcain put in so much funding for anti-Obama commercials, many were wrong and persuasive. Obama still won! The people of this country aren't swayed by mind-numbing media, no matter what you think. If Gay rights wants to fight this out, then they need to focus their energy were it will really count, in court. They need to stop wasting time trying to fight bigots by being bigots themselves.
Displacedtex
· 1 year ago
Well, beautydies, I totally disagree with your with your position, and I'm happy to explain why. First, this discussion began with a call to boycott the state of Utah, a plan that I oppose because (1) it would have cant impact on the Church's massive international income, and (2) it would only hurt our gay and straight allies in the state. What I propose is a series of highly visible performances that provide an imaginative and---yes---vicious attack on the Church and very heart of the religion itself. Other religions in this country deserve similar expressions of public contempt, but the anti-American activities of the Mormon Church merit special treatment at this time. Bigots in America traditionally hide behind religion as a cover for their bigotry, as if to say to the rest of us, "Oh, you can't criticize our religion, because that's in the American fair-play political guide book." Well, guess what? In the matter of gay rights in this country, it is precisely religion that serves as the basis of our oppression and mistreatment. We MUST attack the fundamental principles of the ideologies used to hurt our people. This is not an expression of :hatred" as you seem to conclude; this is necessary political strategy. Taken together, the various forces that work against us demonstrate a peculiar brand of identifiable proto-fascism. To me, and I believe to many others, this proto-fascism is undeniable, and it is based in the pathological fantasies emerging from interpretations of so-called sacred texts. One potentially effective propaganda response is the public demonstration of contempt for the enemy's ideology. The Mormon ideology is especially vulnerable in this regard, given its origins and its long history of bigotry for African-Americans and its long history of exploitation and subjugation of people occupying female bodies. Remember that the Mormons themselves chose this fight, and it IS a fight. Struggle can and should occur on several levels simultaneously, and certainly in the courts. But it is time for LGBT Americans and our allies to "get over" (a phrase used on this site by a contributor disdainful of the injuries inflicted upon my people) the American cultural inhibition against mocking other people's religions. No. The Mormons are vulnerable on several ideological fronts, and we need to take advantage of their vulnerability, especially given our need to cultivate better relations with African-American churches. or example, we need to point out to African-Americans that the Mormons betrayed them out of political expediency in bloody Kansas in the lead-up to the Civil War and that the famous "Revelation" that suddenly identified Black people as something more than subhuman had more to do with increasing numbers of NCAA basketball teams refusing to play BYU than with the veracity of the Prophet-Seer-Revelator's claim of direct communication with the so-called "Heavenly Father who, as an all-knowing being, had finally gotten around to recognizing one of the cruelest founding principles of His One True Church. The LDS Church does produce "hatred" within me, as you inaccurately conclude form my comments. The LDS Church at times amuses me, infuriates me, amazes me. But most of the time, the LDS Church is a source of great disappointment to me. When I think of the all the good they could do in this country and around the world, given their spirit of collective action and their access to enormous wealth, I feel a profound sadness for the people caught up in what appears to be little more than a spiritual Ponzi scam. Their attack on my people deserves a response. As far as I'm concerned, that response should---and must---include acts of performative deconstruction that reveals the paucity of the very basis of their ideology, the point at which they are most vulnerable. They deserve public displays of contempt. But I still plan to ski at Alta.
Older_Wiser
· 1 year ago
I just saw Mayor Villagarosa of LA on MSNBC...has he said anything about Prop 8? He didn't on TV, just was asked generalizations about the economy and his take on the impact on LA taxes for which he had no answer except some posturing, and I certainly wasn't impressed with him. Seemed Palin-like, unfortunately.
Gary SF
· 1 year ago
He donated $25,000 to defeat proposition 8.
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
He closed down their election night party- Villaraigosa has been/is a friend.
Displacedtex
· 1 year ago
I earned my master's degree and Ph.D. at the University of Utah, so I lived there for close to ten years. I got to know firsthand the kind of oppression practiced by the LDS patriarchs, much to the dismay of many, many Mormons. To be sure, the Mormon church leadership has some of the best examples of proto-fascist swine that ever drew breath in North America. On the other hand, Mormon culture has some of the bravest, most courageous men and women in the U.S., and they are engaged in long-term struggle to liberate their church from the geriatric bigots who control it and its considerable wealth. Our LGBT brothers and sisters on Planet Zion deserve our financial support and our physical presence, not a boycott of their state. They and their straight allies are involved in one of the most significant and little known struggles now fought anywhere by our people. Imagine a hundred returned missionaries, dressed in their signature garb, riding their bikes down State Street in Salt Lake City's Pride Parade, carrying the American and Rainbow flags and seizing ownership of one of the most valiant stories of bravery in the Book of Mormon, the narrative of the "Strippling Warriors," who emerge from battle injured but not destroyed. Imagine the risks involved in taking such action. My Mormon sisters and brothers fill my heart with with joy and hope; the psychological, familial, and financial oppression that face them would overwhelm many LGBT people whose political action is limited, for any number of reasons, to mere boycotts, most of them ineffective. No! Let's not boycott this Great and Troubled State. Let's help liberate it. Let's bring healing to it; let's bring love and support to our LGBT sisters and brothers and their non-Mormon allies. Let's show up! The mountains and deserts belong to us as much as they belong to the hypocritical patriarchs who bring suffering into the lives of young LGBT Mormons. This year, let's dispense with many of the Pride Parades in our "safe" cities. Let's forgo this summer's planned trip to P-Town, Greenwich Village, or the Castro and other theme parks where the battle was long-ago won and where our people's entrepreneurial expertise now threatens the ability of working class people, gay and straight, to reside. Let's start showing up en masse in places like SLC to support our people's struggle where it really counts and to demonstrate our economic clout. And let's stop confusing the economic well being of an entire state with the anti-American swine who control the LDS Church. Utah belongs to us all. It is truly a spiritual place. It's worth fighting for.
nicho
· 1 year ago
Great idea -- every gay person who can go to SLC's Pride march -- dressed as a missionary.
Displacedtex
· 1 year ago
Now we're talkin' potentially effective political action! (The boycott, no matter how well intended and organized, will not work for reasons that I will explain elsewhere; I'm an expert om Utah politics, so people here should pay attention to what I have to say. I covered Utah politics for several years as a journalist.) PLUS, the costuming is easily achieved! For guys, black pants (preferably shiny in strategic places, because of all the the bike riding), short sleeved, starched, absolutely gleaming white shirts, skinny black ties, and black backpacks for the carrying of the Book, water bottles, etc.). Plastic black name tags are absolutely necessary, attached to the shirt pockets. Forget the name tag, and you might as well forget the entire presentation of your postmodern missionary self, because it will fail to communicate. On the name tag, you must use ELDER (in caps) as the identifying title, and then you might wish to get creative with the subsequent name. I may use ELDER Joan Crawford, for example. Or, you might wish to use your actual name in order to meet interesting and often randy missionaries and former missionaries. CAUTION: Utah Mormon people, regardless of age, sexual orientation, etc., do not appreciate vulgarity of any sort. So, the name tag must be conceptualized with a sense of conservative decorum when it comes to selecting your missionary name. Sexual connotations will be a big turn-off, especially among real Utah Mormons who might otherwise find you sexually interesting. And, I can testify from 10-years of personal experience, that gay Mormon guys are among the hottest and most sexually imaginative performers I have known on four continents! Don't mess up your chances for hook-ups simply because of ill-conceived vulgarity. I have saved the most frightening costuming aspect for last, because this might determine that a lot of gay guys may decide not to go through with Nicho's absolutely brilliant idea for the political performance of solidarity with our Utah brothers: You must wear white socks. Stop the screaming, and I DON'T want to see responses on this costuming issue in subsequent discussions here. Our people have ALWAYS made sacrifices in our struggles. Wear the damn white socks! Rememebr that these guys ride their bikes for tow years at a time. White socks make perfect sense, given their daily experiences. Now, for the female missionary look, things get a little more complicated, and ain't that always the way, ladies? I suggest two possibilities: (1) one of those big baggy flowery dresses that we should all have seen on TV when the Texas authorities broke up the polygamy cult in Texas (those people were NOT mainstream Mormons, but the female fashion look is consistent with the Utah mainstream), or (2) a female missionary costume (and there ARE sister missionaries now), based generally on the male version (a black and modest dress that hangs well below the knees is essential; absolutely NO trousers). A name tag is essential, just as for the men, but the lady name tag should bear the title of SISTER. Women should know that the TV exposure of the typical dress design indicated that the Texas cult women might try to market a version to a general public, but I haven't seen evidence on the streets. Hair for men: very short and well combed (like 1950's high school boys; the GOOD boys, not the hoodlums!). Have a beard? Shave it for the cause. Hair for women: lots of it, piled high, organized in complex buns identical to what we saw on TV during the Texas dust-up; Utah female Mormons express their individuality by means of amazing, complex hair arrangements; I suspect these arrangements are regarded as erotic, but (as a gay male) I can't be sure. But I know something about architecture, and these hair-dos make the top of the Chrysler Building look simplistic. Remember: The look of the women who were seen on TV a few months ago is identical to the traditional garb of Mormon women in Utah, but the vast majority of Utah Mormon women do NOT share the spin-off ideology that promoted the spin-off movement that left Utah for rural Texas. The vast majority of Utah Mormons are NOT into polygamy, so don't make that assumption if you actually decide to show up for their Gay Pride Parade. Plus, jokes about polygamy are very, very tired in Utah; they've heard it all. And note also that many of the teenaged boys forced out and abandoned by the polygamist groups in Southern Utah find their way to SLC. With almost no exception, these traumatized boys are adopted, educated, and cared for by SLC Mormon families. The vast majority of Mormons are good and decent people. Don't confuse them with their Church leadership.
catdance
· 1 year ago
Walking around in costume isn't going to be 1/100th as effective as a well-run boycott of Mormon businesses and the entire state of Utah.
Displacedtex
· 1 year ago
I favor the boycott of Mormon owned businesses nationally and internationally, and the info provided here by contributors will help in that effort. The boycott of Utah is bad strategy, becasue the LDS leadership does not want outsiders there, anyway. Keeping people out has been one of their most successful ploys in controlling their people. They don't give a damn about a boycott. Don't think that a boycott of Utah would even TOUCH the leadership or bring pressure upon them. We need to show up there, support the local LGBT activists, and provide a highly visible show of contempt for the swine who run the Church, something that never happens in SLC because even the bravest activists are vulnerable to what amounts to de facto expulsion if they get on the radar screen. So, don't talk to me about walking around in costume. You don't get it. Those costumes, worn by gayu and lesbian activists in downtown SLC would be a significant challenge to the swine who who run the place. I respectfully suggest that you read the history of the Mormon Church and of Utah. Attack them where they are vulnerable. By the way, I have read nothing here about the African-American vote to sustain 2nd class citizenship for LGBT people in California. How come? Could it be that LGBT people and our supporters fear attacking the scam artists who run THEIR churches?
catdance
· 1 year ago
By boycotting the entire state, maybe the entire non-Mormon population will finally stand up and stop letting the LDS dictate to them.
Don't dilute the boycott!!!!!! Who are you kidding? The State of Utah IS the Mormon Church.
catdance
· 1 year ago
Since the money is controlled by the repressive elements of the Mormon "religion" -- the boycott can only serve to help the fight of LGBT Mormons by bringing down the repressive regieme.
Displacedtex
· 1 year ago
Wrong. The LDS Church has global economic interests and sources of enormous income that far outstrip any of the Church owned businesses in Zion. The leadership would welcome a boycott, because it would mean less contact between their flock and the outside world. Remember that Brigham envisioned Deseret as a separate country, complete with its own, separate language. He insisted on the railroad coming through well north of SLC. Even today, the vast majority of Utah's African-American population lives in Ogden, not in SLC. The Church also took measures to isolate non-Mormon miners when the mining industry developed. This mining region now includes most of the ski areas. Look at the counties that went for Obama in the last election, and you will see the historical results of Brigham's plan to isolate his people from the outside. They don't care if you boycott them; in fact, they'll consider it a plus. Because early Mormons experienced expulsion from New York, Ohio, bloody Kansas, and Illinois, the boycott would be effectively blunted by a propaganda response reminding the local population of their history of victimization. The only impact of a widespread boycott of Utah would be (1) to hurt the economic interests of our Mormon and non-Mormon allies in Utah, and (2) to help the ski resorts in Colorado and Idaho, two states where the Church is heavily invested. A better response to the despicable and anti-American political activities of the LDS Church leadership is to consistently and imaginatively reveal its hypocrisy, its sacrifice of spiritual principles for profane opportunities, and the suffering that it brings into the lives of its young LGBT people.
catdance
· 1 year ago
Encouraging the isolation of Mormons from the rest of the U.S. would illustrate exactly what a cult they are and show how dangerous they are. It is a frightening thing that Mitt Romney was able to run for President without a spotlight being shone on his beliefs and how anti-American they truly are.
Anything that serves to cut back on Mormon profits in any way possible is a good thing. A boycott of Mormon owned businesses AND on the entire state of Utah means less money for Mormons to use spreading hate around the country and will serve to shine a big light under the rock that is Mormonism.
I will do anything and everything I can to help the boycott.
Upland_Oddball
· 1 year ago
The Mormons have made a fundamental error in only seeing and treating gay people as individuals with a pathology, instead of acknowledging that we are a discrete group with grouup identity, culture and interests. It is one thing for the LDS leadership to forbid its members to participate in gay relationships or in gay marriage ceremonies, that they ae entitled to do, even if it can never be effectively enforced. It is entirely different to enforce discipline on gay Mormons by making all gay people legal second class citizens. The Mormons have declared war on another community and should not be surprised if that community organizes to strike back in defense of its rights, equal citizenship and human dignity. In their arrogance, the LDS leadeership fundamentally sees all gays and lesbians as wayward, sinful childrren who can be put under a parent's control. We are not seen as an equal player in the adult game of participating in local, state and national affairs as a legitimate entity with standing.
The bastards need to be brought to reality and taught a lesson. The statue of the supposed angel Mormoni sounding his trumpet needs to be toppled so that only the statue of American Liberty, such as sits on the dome of the US capitol has voice over us all.
catdance
· 1 year ago
"The statue of the supposed angel Mormoni sounding his trumpet needs to be toppled so that only the statue of American Liberty, such as sits on the dome of the US capitol has voice over us all."
Oh yeah!!
Elbaba
· 1 year ago
Below is the e-mail I sent to the state of Utah, department of tourism at: Travel@utah.gov
Greetings,
In light of the recent events that have targeted and marginalized a group of US citizens to be discriminated against and treated less than equal in the state of California, as encouraged by the LDS church, I feel compelled to inform you that I will immediately cancel our family ski vacation in your state.
As a God fearing Christian, I cannot endorse the actions of any religious organization that promotes hatred, fear, discrimination and intolerance towards any group of people. Those are not the values of the Christian faith and they are certainly not the values I want to teach my children. I take our faith very seriously and find it abhorrent that a religious organization that professes to follow Jesus Christ is engaging in actions that are completely against those very teachings they claim to follow.
I was shocked and saddened to learn the vast amount of money that was poured into mobilizing people to vote in favor of hate, fear, discrimination and bigotry. That money could have been used to help feed the hungry, help the elderly, clothe the poor or homeless and a myriad other ways.
I will not teach my children to hate, fear, and/or discriminate against others and I will not knowingly support any religious organization that purposefully taints God's name to further their own agendas.
It is for those reasons stated above that I will no longer support the state of Utah or its tourism and I will encourage other family members and friends to do the same.
Sincerely,
Mario Carranza Rockville, MD
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
We've been barraged with commercials from them here in "hater state" Oklahoma. I wrote them, as well, and told them my gay dollars aren't going to be spent there, and I've warned away European gay and gay friendly euros from being spent there as well. All my European friends were sickened by this, and reacted with shock.
Rob Mule
· 1 year ago
Homosexuality among humans is an integral aspect of the multifaceted sexuality inherited by the human race from its primate ancestors, not a perversion of nature, an invention of degenerate urban inhabitants, a psychosexual disorder or a biological anomaly. The evidence that humans are an ambisexual species and inherited that trait from the primate ancestors of the human race is overwhelming...Any social and moral codes that strictly prohibit, harshly condemn or otherwise demonize homosexual expression would engender considerable psychological conflict and resulting defenses and neurosis within a significant number of those subjects in response to such a social or moral code.
James Neill, The Origins and Role of Same-Sex Relationships in Human Societies, 2009 McFarland & Co. Publishers
CostitutionalCommando
· 1 year ago
I can't believe you are doing this. Mormons are less than 3% of the electorate in California. The Black churches also came out in support of Prop 8 by 70%. I don't see the big call for protests at Black churches. I guess Mormons are the last group it is OK to HATE.
BTW. It California that passed prop 8 not Utah.
GROW-UP.
Rob Mule
· 1 year ago
Money, honey...
RainbowPhoenix
· 1 year ago
California's black population is not large enough to have had a large impact on the results. It was the Mormons, centered in Utah, that gave this travesty the vast majority of its funding.
Elbaba
· 1 year ago
The Mormons poured their money into this initiative so they are the first in line. I will not teach my children to hate others but I will teach them to stand up for what they believe in.
clytemnestra
· 1 year ago
I'm one who has said "GO AFTER CA TOOO"
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
Yes, but its about the MONEY that caused the LYING messages to be bought by the people who voted for it, hon. Mormons used their wealth to deny us our rights. We are going to punish them back with BOYCOTTS and PROTESTS.
Gary SF
· 1 year ago
Can you read? $14 million dollars came from Mormons. Maybe more. The 70% African American vote is based upon a sample that is suspect. Regardless, they did not contribute money the way the Mormons did and it was money that paid for the lying ads that cost us. Utah has greater than 70% Mormon population. But you are just another whiny Mormon, so why bother posting here? Oh, and we hate Mormons because we are choosing to boycott them, but they love us? Take a pill and go count your wives.
catdance
· 1 year ago
Who hates Mormons? We love the sinner, just hate the sin.
decotodd
· 1 year ago
There is quite a well written article about the protests in today's LA Times -- front page color photo and article inside.
But can someone in the organization please tell Lori Jean to step aside and let new blood take over? She gave it a good effort, but now she's encouraging donations of $5 to send postcards to the head of the Mormon church? I can send my own post card thanks. Our money would be better served donated to the ACLU and LAMBDA Legal. In the short term, this is going to be a legal challenge and they are the most in-the-trenches groups right now.
Rob Mule
· 1 year ago
We need a Martin Luther Queen...
foxy
· 1 year ago
I agree!
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
"The Gays" we are the new "black," huh?
JohnInTexas
· 1 year ago
But I don't look good black. I don't want to be black. I want to flame like I was born to dammit.
You can look up donors in favor of Prop 8. Select UT from the State menu and then check the Support Prop 8 box.
The amount of money coming in from Utah is freaking staggering. Hundreds of donors, many in the $10,000 and above range. One guy gave ONE MILLION DOLLARS.
This travesty was organized by the Mormons and financed out of UTAH. Fuck them all.
Chimpeach
· 1 year ago
wow! In my tiny state of NH only 3 haters supported it and 35 gave money to kill it.
Elbaba
· 1 year ago
the list of supporters needs to be compiled and printed on phamplets and given out to people to identify the bigots in this country.
They need to be shamed for supporting bigotry and discrimination.
JohnInTexas
· 1 year ago
Odd, but I saw a few names just in the couple of minutes I looked, and they contributed 200.00 one day, and two days later contributed 2000.00....wonder where that extra 2000 came from??? Looks suspicious to me. why not just give them 2200 on the same day?
Chimpeach
· 1 year ago
I hate what the Mormons have done, but I disagree with boycotting an entire state. Sounds too much like an O'reilly tactic like when he called for his troglodyte followers to boycott Vermont because of one judge's decision. Sure boycott the organizations and companies that are in bed with the Mormon church, advertisers, whatever. But what about the chambermaid at that ski resort you are boycotting.
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
The Colorado Boycott got some real attention.
catdance
· 1 year ago
Boycotts ALWAYS have an adverse effect on "innocent victims." It's regrettable, but that's part of how they work.
Maybe there will be pressure on the LDS church within Utah, if it starts costing the whole state.
TXfemmom
· 1 year ago
For those whom say boycotting a whole state is wrong, they need to understand that Utah is MORMON, lock, stock, and barrel. Their Prophets rule the place like their own little kingdom, and MONEY is very important to them.
Progressives need to boycott their recreational areas, move the Sundance Festival, and boycott Marriott. Some research should follow and other things should be boycotted. Additionally, since they put so much money into this POLITICAL situation, then their tax-exempt status SHOULD BE WITHDRAWN.
LLR
· 1 year ago
The vast majority of the money to support Prop 8 was donated directly to Prop 8 organizations by individuals/groups, it did not get donated to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to be forwarded by the church to Prop 8.
Please boycott Science Fiction Writer Orson Scott Card...he has 3 new books coming out and has a deal with one of his books getting turned into a movie. This douchebag is a Mormon descended from Charles Ora Card, a son-in-law of Brigham Young. Card has written several articles against gay marriage but like most hypocrites claims to have many gay friends. If anyone can find out about his movie deal please let us know so we can pressure the studio he is working with.
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
Orson Scott Card - my gay dollars will NOT buy any of his books, or movies. Thanks for the info!
LLR
· 1 year ago
Just because someone is a member of a church does not mean that he/she participated in Proposition 8. Orson Scott Card and the list of companies I have seen thrown around in here will continue to flourish according to their past history and quality. I understand that this is an important matter to everyone, but blacklisting groups because they are affiliated with a religion is not the answer (I just watched a couple movies about holocaust... and this is eerily familiar).
Bans and boycotts of products and services of independent parties will not hurt The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and it will not convince the prophet and others leaders to change their minds on which side they will support.
aketzle
· 1 year ago
Here's a really scary fact about the Mormons that you could use to your advantage to turn mainstream America more against them - according Jon Krakauer's book "Under the Banner of Heaven", at their current rate of conversion and expansion, by the year 2050, the US government will be INOPERABLE without the cooperation of the Mormon church. That's for a number of reasons. For some inexplicable reason, their conversion rates are extremely high all over the world, but here, too. Also, their practice of having lots and lots of kids is exponentially growing their numbers. And even worse, the FLDS churches where they still practice polygamy multiply those reproductive numbers by how ever many "spiritual wives" they have, and it's that much higher. Also, since those polygamous marriages aren't legally recognized, those children are considered to be outside of wedlock and the mothers receive welfare money from the state on EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE KIDS. That money is given directly back to the church to make it that much stronger and richer and more formidable a force in American politics and society. Now if that doesn't make you tremble in your boots, I don't know what will!
k_in_ca
· 1 year ago
I might be misguided, but I sent a complaint to AG Brown asking him to reconsider his decision to enforce Proposition 8 (http://ag.ca.gov/contact/complaint_form.php?cmp...). I do not understand how he can enforce Proposition 8, which is clearly unconstitutional. It seems like he is one of the few people who can actually do something about this.
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
He has to support it- it's his job. But he is performing a delicate dance by using the weakest arguments possible while still playing the part he's supposed to in these proceedings.
I suggest a letter of thanks to him for the statement he made Wed, the hard work he has to do, and for the support he has and is showing the gay community.
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
My favorite sign from the protest!
"My pedophile Catholic Priest fought LONG and HARD for passage of Proposition H8!"
When the mormon church hands us a $19 mil check to repeal the ban, THEN we'll play nice. They're a vicious hater cult. I will mock Mormons ceaselessly.
RainbowPhoenix
· 1 year ago
And while they're at it, a check for all the money they spent on the Arizona and Florida amendments.
foxy
· 1 year ago
Sorry wrong post...got a bit angry
CostitutionalCommando
· 1 year ago
The Mormon Church did no such thing. It allowed all its members to contribute and vote anyway they chose. The anti 8's raised twice as much money. Get over it you lost.
JohnInTexas
· 1 year ago
So did the church actually COMMUNICATE to ALL ITS MEMBERS that it was okay to vote and contribute to this? Do they do that for every ballot initiative/proposition/election? If they COMMUNICATED it to ALL THEIR MEMBERS, they are not eligible for tax excempt status. Get it?
Steve_in_CNJ
· 1 year ago
let's see if you can get over it when the court says you can't rescind the equal protection clause for some people and not others. either you lose your right to marry or we get ours back. there's no in-between.
Displacedtex
· 1 year ago
No. That's a cover used by the LDS Church and other hate groups masquerading as religions in order to avoid the possibility of having to pay taxes. You're right on one point, though. We did lose this one. But we'll win eventually. And the despicable, wretched organizations that tout themselves as providing pathways to the afterlife will expose themselves as the frauds that they are.
eagleye
· 1 year ago
Hitting the Mormons for their support of Proposition 8 is an effort I support, but not only because of the bigotry involved. What we need to stop is the Republican tactic of putting fundamentalist ballot initiatives in the mix when elections are held. Their strategy isn't just to win on the ballot initiative; it's also designed to draw more socially conservative voters to the polls in the hopes of supporting the top of the ticket, i.e. McCain/Palin. The GOP is particularly fond of using these nasty ballot initiatives in swing states like Missouri.
jospose
· 1 year ago
Hey, all you Prop 8 no supporters, ever heard of being a gracious loser? Not a sore one...
Seriously, the judges/activists/politicals/lawyers gave both sides a shot at working this out through a vote. Both sides agreed. And yet, the No voters still cry and moan about losing. It's really childish. Get over it. You lost. By a fair and decisive vote. YOU LOST. Quit trying to blame others for it. The Mormon church is NOT 53.5% of California - but yet they take the brunt of it.
The YES campaign was organized and persistent. They did more to spread their word than the No voters. They campaigned without harsh words, without screaming matches, without stealing signs, without graffiti, without HATE as you like to call us, haters. NO RIGHTS were taken away from homosexuals. Civil Unions grant the same rights as Married couples. It was always about the definition of marriage for the YES voters.
What amazed me most about this Proposition is that I am a YES voter and when I expressed my voice (my freedom to speak my opinion) I was called a hater, but when a NO voter spoke their opinion to me, I listened and agreed to disagree. I never received my freedom to speak on the YES side of things. I was always the one taking things away. I was never granted that same luxury of having my opinion.
CALIFORNIANS VOTED TWICE ON THIS MEASURE, IN 2000 AND AGAIN THIS WEEK. BOTH TIMES CALIFORNIANS DECIDED AGAINST THE NO VOTERS. SUCK IT UP, GET OVER IT, IT'S DONE.
nicho
· 1 year ago
Let me know if it hurts when you go fuck yourself.
foxy
· 1 year ago
I could say something but I am not... (_*_)
DAinLA
· 1 year ago
Actually, what you are about to learn is that it is not done. Not at all. Prepare yourself, it's not going to be fun for your side.
RainbowPhoenix
· 1 year ago
This is not about the will of the people. This is about civil rights. We had our civil rights taken away. The mormons channeled millions of dollars into doing that. We are not being sore losers. We are expressing rightious fury. We will not let the momon cult get away with this. We have tolerated them for too long. That ends now. They attacked us and we will return all of it and more. Hell hath no fury like a queen scorned.
By the way, I agree with nicho. I to would like to know how much it hurts when you fuck yourself.
JohnInTexas
· 1 year ago
May as well just fasten your seatbelt, you won't sway anybody here or anybody who was against P8 either, the line got drawn and now it's our sides next move I guess. But we'll do it with love, we'll love you and the Mormon's and the rest with every dollar we spend somewhere else.
sharksfansd
· 1 year ago
Hey jospose, are you more like Larry Craig or Larry Craig's wife?
BTW. Not a sore loser...just one that is severely pis*sed off. You be sure to post one of your rights that you would like us to put up on the ballot and see how you like it. 48% right minded people voted against prop 8 - and all 48% are not gay. That should give you a hint. And please, this is not done by any means. Unless you are againist free speech?
sharksfansd
· 1 year ago
And people like you 60 years ago voted "yes" on keeping interracial couples from getting married.
I don't know if you are a hater, but you certainly seem to be expressing a bigoted perspective. The very fact that people even have the presumption to VOTE on the range of freedoms and opportunities available to my people is, as you apparently imagine, infuriating. "Get over it"? Sounds un-American to me. How 'bout we homos vote to require you to obtain a license to breed? Think you might be able to suck that one up? I'm utterly amazed by what often passes as "child rearing" by mixed couples. You're dealing with a very angry segment of the U.S. population that understands full well that these votes demonstrate widespread hatred for us and for our families. The end result will be the freedom we seek, however long postponed. We will win. And the process will also result in an increased, mainstream contempt for the religions that have lined-up against us, including the Mormon version. Maybe then we can vote on whether or not the churches in the country get to ante up the taxes they've avoided for such a long time. Finally, I want to point out to you that straights have made such a thorough mess of the marriage relationship that we homos couldn't begin to top the damage that your mixed couples have achieved. "The sanctity of marriage"? Most of the straights I see running around lose and read about in the newspaper don't even know the meaning of that phrase.
Is that what you would say to Martin Luther King At the 'whites only' drinking fountain?
mirth
· 1 year ago
Huh?
unrepentant_expat
· 1 year ago
Oops, that comment was intended for the post below yours.
DAinLA
· 1 year ago
While I agree with you that Sundance should leave Utah, it's too late for this year. I have attended Sundance in the past and you should know the money is already spent. Studios and others begin planning one year ahead of time. They've already shelled out the money.
Maybe 2010. I won't be going back.
CostitutionalCommando
· 1 year ago
Mirth:
Are you naturally a bigot or do you have to work at it?
moreleesafer
· 1 year ago
Too late. As my wise cousin from South Carolina used to say "You ordered $hit, you get $hit" and "Don't start no mess, won't be no mess."
They orderd $hit and they started mess. Game on. Next time those nice Mormon boys come to my door, I'm not going to be as kind when I decline their offer to join the "One True Church". I am going to tell them that their church sponsored the passage of Prop 8, repealing the law that gave my friends and family the right to marry. Ki$$ my a$$ and get off my porch.
JohnInTexas
· 1 year ago
Maybe we should all join their church en masse...infiltrate you know? LOL
JohnInTexas
· 1 year ago
According to the lawsuit by Lambda Legal, the National Center for Lesbian Rights and the ACLU, any measure that would make "radical changes" to the "organizing principles of state government," like taking away people's constitutional rights, has to go through the Legislature before it's sent to voters. This would be a slam dunk for gays, since lawmakers twice voted (in 2005 and 2007) for marriage equality.
Above is lawsuit filed day before yesterday....hope is not lost, and according to CA Attorney General Jerry Brown, all 18,000 or same sex couples are STILL LEGALLY MARRIED...
jospose
· 1 year ago
In response to all of your amazingly intellectual comments, especially you Mirth, the fact that you are making this a civil rights issue is ridiculous. Are you enslaved? Are you the property of someone? Comparing this to that of the struggles of a black man from years ago is apples and oranges. Marriage for you was never possible until you schemed to get Prop 22 overturned behind the backs of all the people who voted for Prop 22, by a 20% margin no less. Why can't you just take no for an answer. Californian's said no in 2000 and again in 2008. And as for the $ that was spent, the Mormon church didn't write checks to Yes on Prop 8, their Members did. As did Catholics, Non denominational Christians, Evangelicals, Born Agains, random individuals, businesses, etc.
Steve_in_CNJ
· 1 year ago
where to start? why is it important to you to demonstrate that one oppressed minority has suffered more than another? it's clear that you want to join the oppression and do so while denying culpability, ie the gays deserve to suffer, so it's not oppression and furthermore their struggle amounts to "scheming" against the bigoted majority. the history of civil rights in this country should have taught you that individual human rights must not be decided by majority votes. if that were the case, blacks would still be slaves in alabama. and as for the money that was spent, don't play head games. the impetus for this attack comes from the top, from the LDS leadership. episcopals didn't spend millions of dollars to fuck with the gays. a person who was not consumed with hatred and intolerance could not have written what you wrote here.
sharksfansd
· 1 year ago
And that is where you are wrong. It is a civil rights issue. You apparently don't believe in e-quality. And neither does the Mormon church OR its members.
BTW. Did your great, great grandfather approve of lynchings. Probably so, as it wasn't a civil right issue back then, huh?
RainbowPhoenix
· 1 year ago
If one group is singled out and denied something that is given to everyone else, it is a civil rights issue. We are denied marriage just because people don't like us. One day this period will be looked back on with the same embarresment as slavery and segregation. We will keep fighting for our civil rights and we will win. Whether you and your fellow bigots like it or not.
glootmaxmus
· 1 year ago
I totally agree about boycotting all things Mormon because of this. Email all your friends about not vacationing there, not patronizing Marriot facilities, boycotting Sundance, etc.
The thing to remember is that Mormons tend to be malleable when it comes to their pocketbooks. For example, I heard that Blacks used to be barred from the upper eschalons of their "church" until the Fed came in and threatened their tax-exempt status. Guess what happened? "God" suddenly appeared and told their "prophet" that He had a change of heart! Same thing happened with polygamy.
MikeinSanJo
· 1 year ago
Even so, they can't exactly do a "Take-Back" of Prop 8.
I say slap the fuck out of them financially, send them to their room and make them stay there until they've thought long and hard about what they've done.
glootmaxmus
· 1 year ago
More companies that are owned/run by Mormons can be found on MormonStockIndex.com.
I did not see anything about Google. I DID see: Mariot and LaQuinta hotels (where you can purchase a nice porno with your room, thankyouverymuch), Black & Decker, American Express, 1-800-Contacts, Diebold (surprise!), Hollywood Video, Dell Computer (!!!), Novell, Ryder, Oakley...
For the idiots who say "get over it you lost"? All I can say is you are pigs. You're tearing families apart. I highly doubt you'd take advice like "get over it" if YOUR marriage was repealed by hateful bigots.
MikeinSanJo
· 1 year ago
Wow! I'm glad you posted this. I've been looking at a new vacuum cleaner (2 actually - one for the house, one for the car) and I was almost ready to get one made by B&D.
I just changed my mind.
Yeah. Some of these sorta surprised me: Black & Decker Oakley (I wanted to get another pair!) I won’t be getting an American Express card anytime soon, so that’s no big deal, but Dell Computer?!? No wonder they fired the sexy Stephen “Dude! You’re getting a Dell!” kid when he got busted for pot.
mirth
· 1 year ago
That's the way it's done, Mike - commitment and then action. Good on you. People talk about rebellion but talk doesn't get results. Letting B&D know why you will not purchase their product completes this action.
I'm also glad to have the link, glootmaxmus. Thanks.
mmleoniii
· 1 year ago
Thank you for providing the web address, it will make it easier for me to participate. I had also posted it on myspace and will do so for facebook.
bbock
· 1 year ago
I was surprised to read in Time that we out-raised the pro 8 side by a fair margin. Do we have any idea how that money was spent? Was it all spent? Were there salaries paid?
thriceshy
· 1 year ago
I've lived in Utah for over 30 years. I've long felt pushed, shoved, belittled, and, yes, oppressed by the LDS church. I encourage all of you to boycott this state--Utah products, Utah businesses, Utah destinations. Don't come, don't buy.
What am I going to do? I'm going to take my husband, my son, and my pets and move somewhere else. Some may see this as a "gay" issue, but I see this as an issue of fairness and compassion. Allowing a gay couple to wed doesn't detract from my marriage one little bit, nor does it "endanger" my family. In fact, I think that this world could use a little more love, and embracing loving relationships between adults can't help but be a good thing for everyone.
Displacedtex
· 1 year ago
Well, based on the fascinating traffic I've read here today, I've decided not to boycott the state of Utah, but I have canceled a reservation at an airport Marriott in the NYC area. The info provided here all day about Mormon owned businesses has been especially useful, and I plan to put it to good use. But I love the state of Utah, I admire the courage of the Opposition, and I know that the Forces of Ignorance that run the state really do fear outsiders who may contaminate the flock. Plus, demographic research indicates that the Mormonic population is on its way to becoming a minority in Utah, and not just in SLC. I plan to remain a contaminating element, but I do understand---truly---thriceshy's decision to move on, especially if her son is very young. Non-Mormon kids are under a lot of pressure in Utah, especially is they don't live in SLC where the population is about 50-50. One final comment, inspired by an earlier comment and not by thriceshy, and then I'll shut up: The snow in Colorado is NOT as good as Utah snow. It just isn't. I love Colorado's Eastern Slope--- and you'd have to be crazy not to. But the only other place you can find powder similar to what you find in Utah is on the Western side of the ANDES! So, let's not pick the pockets of those ski-bumming American kids building their memories at Alta!
mmleoniii
· 1 year ago
I am a Utah resident and not gay, However I am disgusted by the conduct of the LDS church. The one main argument people are forgetting is the "separation of church and state". Through this clause in the constitution, they cannot do what they did. It is horrible for the church to act out in that manner. Where does the church get off telling anyone what they can or cannot do? This is another long line of human rights violations the church is guilty of. All done in the name of god. So support the boycott!!! no to utah, no to mormons!
P.S. Does anyone think it is wrong to apply laws to marriage or "legally define" marriage?
LeftCoastOracle
· 1 year ago
If I were religious I would say amen.
I think we should seek revocation of the church's tax status and that we should petition the supreme court to enforce the constitution's separation of church and state clause. Alternatively we should just place a proposition on the ballot to deny churches the right to support any action designed to abridge or deny a citizen's civil rights.
rho514
· 1 year ago
I find it completely unbelievable that a community of gay supporters is complaining about the very thing they are doing. You can't cry prejudice and then turn around and be prejudice in the same sentence! Does anyone on here realize that less than 5% of California's population is Mormon? And yet its the Mormon's fault that it passes? I don't believe that government should have any say in who marries who, I don't think they have the right to put it up for a vote. If a man wants to marry a man then so be it. But I do believe that if the government IS going to step in and put it to a vote then churches, families, individuals all have the right to support which ever side they want to support, and support it in anyway they feel comfortable, even if that means giving money to support the cause. I think all this anti-Mormon, anti-Utah talk is ridiculous. You need someone to blame for this proposition passing? Then blame the voters of California, blame the people against the proposition for not doing a better job in getting the word out to voters, but blaming a state or a religious group is just an easy out for those of you who need someone to blame. Once again, I think the numbers speak for themselves...only 5% of California is Mormon, so even if ever single one of those 5% voted yes on this proposition where did the other 48.5% come from? Seems to me that California has spoken and its time to realize they just aren't ready for gay marriages. After all, isn't this twice this has passed? You should be shouting for your cause, not against something else. You only make yourselves look bad and turn people off of your cause. Do you think the Mormons would be boycotting California if the proposition hadn't passed? And in case you don't know the answer to that question, its no they wouldn't. They would be banning together even harder to fight for it the next time it came to vote, which is what all your energy should be focused on, not on those who you THINK kept you from marrying who you want!
paulbe
· 1 year ago
Not population, DOLLARS. If they are 5%, why are they permitted so much sway?? DOLLARS. Everyone knows Americans don't think about issues, they wait for a TV campaign to tell them what they think. So DOLLARS and SPIN, and you can engineer any outcome you want. Case in point, election 2004.
sharksfansd
· 1 year ago
Excuse me. Did you see the "yes on 8 ads?" Nothing but lies and hate. The Mormons are under the spotlight for all the money they donated to their "cause." Why did hundreds, if not thousands, of Utah citizens donate money to a California campaign? That is why the Mormon issue is coming up.
LeftCoastOracle
· 1 year ago
Mormons may be 5% of California's population but their church (the one in Salt Lake City) contributed nearly $20 million to the yes on 8 campaign; they are responsible for the proposition being on the ballot. And those $20 million were spent on horrendous, uncivil, disrespectful, hateful television commercials full of lies and stereotypes.
If you even have a clue about politics in the U.S. you know that dirty politics works. It's just ironic that a church that claims it wants us all to make nice; treat each other with civility, respect, and love, is only interested in those sentiments now, since their hateful, disrespectful, uncivil proposition succeeded in taking away our civil rights.
You can put lipstick on proposition 8 but it's still a pig; an uncivil, disrespectful, hateful pig!
ninjacat
· 1 year ago
I have lived in Utah for close to a decade now, it is a different state to say the least. What you are missing, although many of you are stating it, is there is a separation of church and state. Many of the people that live here and depend on those tourist dollars you are preaching to take away, are not affiliated with the church. While I have some mormon friends (and they are good people otherwise I would not be friends with them), most of my friends, the ones that work in the ski industry, are on your side, hurting us is only going to create resentment for your cause. Someone else said it too, I do not care how much money the lds church donated, California voted. Are you saying the residents of california are so incapable of individual thought and starved for idealistic direction that the lds church was able to influence them that easily? Black diamond, salomon and atomic are based out of salt lake, I guess many of your members will not be skiing and climbing on the best equipment made anytime soon. And since Park City is getting ridiculously out of control, feel free to go to colorado, it is already really crowded there and there will be more snow for the rest of us.
mmleoniii
· 1 year ago
If you are worried about what is going to happen, then why not make it a point of saying what was done is wrong?
Catsupking
· 1 year ago
I find this funny.
Had I voted yes for prop 8, then I would be branded a gay hater.
It would have nothing to do that I have deep rooted religious beliefs..no, not Mormon....Methodist.
It would have nothing to do that I believe in the Word of God.
It's pure gay hate.
Funny you ask? Yes, because you all in here are the most intolerant bigots yet.
You hate "anti-gays" ( your words, not mine). You hate anyone and everyone who are Mormons. You hate any religion that states marriage is between man and woman. You hate Utah.
But most of all.... YOU HATE ANYONE AND EVERYONE WHO DO NOT SHARE YOUR VIEWS ON GAY MARRIAGE.
Who's the bully and bigot?
sharksfansd
· 1 year ago
48% of the "no" vote was from heterosexuals AND homosexuals. The straight people that voted against prop 8 know it is wrong. It is funny that I keep asking questions about our tarnished civil rights history here in America and people like you ignore. it. 60 years ago blacks and whites could not marry, 100 years ago lynchings were OK. We now it is wrong now, but how many voices were opposed to it then?
And I don't hate people who don't share our view on e-quality. Their hypocrisy is what is sickening to me though (Larry Craig, Jim Bakker, Jim Swaggart, Ted Haggard, et al).
Catsupking
· 1 year ago
"Know it is wrong"?
being a heterosexual does not require you to be a religious devout being. Wrong is being defined by you, and the group you accompany. I disagree wholeheartedly with what you define as being wrong. In essence, it is your opinion.
Wrong, in my belief, would be to allow gays to evolutionize an institution such as marriage, which God himself created for man and woman.
I don't hate gays, or gays who don't share my religious views.
LeftCoastOracle
· 1 year ago
No, I expect "Christians" to live what they preach! Civility, respect, and love. You give it, you get it. Right? Isn't that the way it works?
Prop 8 is not civil, respectful, or loving. It is hateful!
Catsupking
· 1 year ago
I am practicing what is preached.
I am civil, respectful, and most of all... loving. I have tolerance for those who have alternative lifestyles.
Does that mean I should let you tarnish a traditional christain practice while sitting down? I have a voice too.
I wonder... how many homosexuals voted yes for prop 8? If you think not one did, you'd be dead wrong.
LeftCoastOracle
· 1 year ago
You still don't get it. Being gay is not having an "alternative lifestyle." It's is they way I was born.
Let me ask you, did you decide to be straight? What makes you think I decided to be gay? In fact, why on earth would anybody decide to adopt an "alternative lifestyle" that people such as yourself can only tolerate and who seek to deny their civil rights?
Proclaiming that you tolerate me will not get you points in heaven. Acceptance is the name of the game. Being civil, respectful, and loving while supporting proposition 8 is an oxymoron. They are mutually exclusive. You can do one or the other but not both. So choose!
Catsupking
· 1 year ago
I believe you're the one who doesn't get it.
Suggesting that person is raised gay, has to be gay, and vice versa?
Does everyone raised in a "straight" family mean they are straight?
You are suggesting that you DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE in whether you are gay, or not.
Yes, I DECIDED to be STRAIGHT. At some point in my life, it became MY choice. Just as you did at some point in your life, and still do. It is your choice be the way you are now, and has been.
In tolerating your lifestyle, I'm not looking for "points" into anywhere, and to suggest otherwise is just being totally ignorant to the Word to which guides my lifes decisions.
Acceptance is a self served delusion, law recognized marriage won't give you that. Its something that comes from your inner being. If thats what you need to feel accepted, then you have a long life ahead of you of disappointment.
Lets see......... vote yes for prop 8 = you are incompassionate and uncivilized .
Yup, there's true logic.
LeftCoastOracle
· 1 year ago
I don't think you understood. I said, "Being gay is not having an "alternative lifestyle." It's is they way I was born."
That's right: I DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE. I was born gay. It is genetic. It has nothing to do with the way I was raised. If it were a choice and if the way I was raised had anything to do with it, I would be straight.
Surely you don't believe that people choose to be gay, to be persecuted and reviled by people such as yourself.
LeftCoastOracle
· 1 year ago
Treat each other with "civility, with respect, with love" huh? Is that what you call prop 8? I don't think so.
To the leaders of the LDS Church: civility, respect, and love, work both ways. You give it. You get it. Isn't that what Christianity teaches?
krajmahali
· 1 year ago
I was born and raised in Utah, and I don't hate anyone. Stop making your knee-jerk associations concerning a place you don't know anything about. Utah does not equal hate and does not equal Mormon. - Andreas Kralios
mmleoniii
· 1 year ago
I must be living in a different world then, because I have found Utah to be as bad as Idaho. The LDS church policy has been a sponsor of hate. If you are different, you are not accepted by the majority in this state.
b1bandit
· 1 year ago
I am upset by the harsh words of arrogant people outside the state of Utah who dare use a blanket boycott to chastise an entire region for the actions of a partial community. Take a moment and think of all the money that came from the state of Utah to Vote NO on Proposition 8. I would imagine Utah resident Bruce Bastion didn’t donate a million dollars to the vote no campaign with the thought that people would boycott the entire state, where many GLBT community members live and the economy in which their livelihood is at stake. Many Utah residents donated to Vote No on Proposition 8. A boycott is misguided, and counterproductive, furthermore, the cities targeted are not even majority LDS. You could move the Sundance Film Festival out of Sundance, Utah; but what would be the point? I don’t know if any of you have ever been to the Sundance Film Festival; but, I have news for you…. It’s not exactly a Mormon event! Do you want to deprive the amazing GLBT community in the greater Salt Lake City area, of hosting Gay Ski Weeks, or Gay pride events? This GLBT community that protested over the same decision that has provoked this totally misguided response. THINK PEOPLE THINK! You have friends in the State of Utah; amazing friends who put out their hands in more ways than one; don’t be blinded by the actions of a church when you throw out this bomb of a threat on an entire state. I won’t have it. Go back to the drawing board because this response defies all GLBT ethics.
John
· 12 months ago
We LDS folds just did what we could: campaigned hard and voted our conscience. Prop 8 passed, mission accomplished.
You all seem to be campaigning hard too, except "after" the election. Seems more like a political TANTREM than anything else.
All Comments
Stop pushing your hateful lifestyle on me and my family!
But after this latest "shanda" (Yiddish for shameful behavior) I won't be the next time they approach me, if they should do so.
I am completely straight but as a minority in a minority (I am a short Red-diaper baby who plays classical music for a living) I know somewhat how feels to be prejudged.
AS said, I am an atheist, but on two occasions recently I have fervently hoped that there is an afterlife: on the deaths respectively of Jerry Falwell and Jesse Helms.
And I do wish those braying Xtians would actually read the Bible once in a while, not just "Left Behind" and Revelation. Start with Matthew 5:6.
and others who hate those who wear their religion on their arm and try to force their adgenda on others. I am not gay, but support your cause. Why not see how many straight people support your cause? It is not the gays against the mormons, but many more agree with you. Stop making it the gays vs mormons.
Possibly it should have read, "Gay people are fed up and have learned a thing or two about MOBILIZING THEMSELVES AND OTHER LIKE MINDED PEOPLE".
It's not just the gays that are against what the mormons have done
am sure that you have a better way of wording it since I don't have great writing skills.
I post here just to throw ideas out, and I hope those with a better writing skills will take them and reword them, if they see a good idea
No offense was meant.
http://www.mormonsstoleourrights.com/#petition
I think we should start a huge fundraising push for Lambda Legal and start planning ballot initiatives for 2009 and 2010.
It's also time to start working our Congressional representatives, especially the new freshmen. Harass the Republican representatives, too. We need to be louder.
I'm married, heterosexual, but do I believe my marraige has anything to do with God. No. We got married at the court house. It's an agreement with me and my spouse, and the legal license enables us to care for ourselves and our dependants.
Does the Mormon church believe because I was married in a civil service that my marraige doesn't count, shouldn't count? Should every married person hold these biblical beliefs in order to obtain a marriage license?
These religious people need to mind their own damned business. Period. Especially if they are not from California.
Marriage is a civil contract. You might as well make a law to say how many children a man shall have, as to make a law to say how many wives he shall have. (Journal of Discourses, 11:268-9)
Just look at who Summit County in Utah voted for in 2008 presidential election... (Summit County: home of most of Utah ski areas and Sundance film festival)
Not everyone in Utah is a member of the LDS..
Not everyone in Utah agree with conservative politics..
If you really want to hurt the LDS, hit them where they will go nuts...
Missionary work/proselytizing..
I ski, mainly backcountry ski, and boycotting Park City, Alta or even Brian Head isn't going to sway the LDS, actually they will savor it.
If there is a target you want to aim at LDS in California. They are a huge group.
Utah is much more than the LDS, and not all Utahans are Oren Hatch sychophants.
If you want to feel this is war, the battleground isn't Utah, it is California. Declare War on every group that voted in the majority for this proposition, Have Gays boycott Hollywood for not doing enough to defeat this, punished every brokerage firm in SF, every silicon valley firm whether they supported "No on 8" or not, boycott any produce coming from California. Go after the Knights of Columbus, the Tele Novela actor who did a Spanish Language ad in support of "Yes on 8"...
The LDS isn't Utah. The LDS is a big part of Idaho, Arizona, Eastern Oregon, and I grew up with many Mormons in California. If you want to declare war, then go to all those States and raise hell, go after the LDS affiliation with the Boy Scouts.
I understand that Gays across the country are angry, but to aim a boycott at Summit County, Utah, where Sundance Film Festival takes place or boycott the Utah Ski Industry will backfire. The LDS would love that.. If you want to "take no prisoners" then it is a combination of Mormon money and social conservatives that made the Prop 8 a reality.
However, it could be a complete waste of money on the Mormons and others part, given that the courts will strike it down... There are many legal pratfalls and a couple gordian knots in Prop 8 that the Courts may not want to undo.
If Silverlake, West Hollywood, parts of the Castro and the Mission district were getting car bombs from Homophobe groups, then I think the analogy of Civil Rights Movement is appropriate.
Take a step back, a good battleground where Prop 8 proponents can be defeated are the Courts.
This was a proposition, not de jure implaced segregation...
Basically throw monkey wrenches, (the phrase came from Utah Resident: Edward Abbey) into the LDS systems, and their most prize system is their Missionary Work.
I am just describing if you want to kick the LDS in the nuts, this is where are the family jewels are located.
Will they fund a new initiative to legalize polygamy, because it's in the bible?
The Mormons are a secretive, conning, duplicitous, strong arming, almost Mafioso like cult of grifters and need to be treated as such--no matter how many Stepford like smiling faces they put forward.
One of my favorite little known facts about them is their belief in "Lying For The Lord". It is a tenet they practice which says it is absolutely fine to tell an outright lie if it is in defense of the LDS church or promotes its agenda. If you ask them about it, guess what? They lie.
That explains those "Yes on 8" ads filled with complete falsehoods. It might also be a warning about believing anything Mitt Romney may have to say in the next few years. A big item in the Mormon agenda is to infiltrate the government. First through smaller orgs like the Boy Scouts which they already run ( ever scratch your head wondering what the big deal about letting atheists and gays participate is?). The FBI is filled with a wildly disproportionate number of Mormons-which if it doesn't scare the shit out of you, should. The Presidency would be the icing on the cake--think of all the appointments! And they will do anything to get there. Even lie to your face while smiling. We dismiss these folks at our peril.
http://www.thesoundla.com/
And indeed it is owned by Bonneville, which is basically the Mormon's business arm ( one of them).
5900 Wilshire Blvd. 19th Floor
Los Angeles, CA 90036
(323) 634-1800
Bonneville International
55 North 300 West
Salt Lake City UT 84101-3502
(801) 575-7500
(801) 575-7541 (fax)
Give 'em a call or a fax.
"As we're launching the station, feel free to contact The Sound by email. ."
Well, they asked for it. Here's the email: station@TheSoundLA.com.
Pass it around. Maybe they need to have a little bump in their launch.
Personally if you want to boycott anything, argula, mixed greens, and romaine lettuce. I think like 95% comes from California, from the Central Valley or Salinas County, Central Valley and Kern County are the very conservative parts of California, (Orange County has tempered to a more moderate position, even though Conservative money is still based there)
Yes, most vegetables in the country come from Salinas Valley (which spans multiple counties), as well as artichokes, mushrooms, strawberries, cherries, citrus, and garlic.
Be careful what you decide to boycott. Personally I would DIE without my garlic!!
Only the edges of California (where people live) is progressive. Those counties populated primarily by livestock tend to be very conservative.
Prop 8 went 50/50 in LA county. So I guess LA county must be punished?
Personally, I really think Prop 8 will be defeated in the courts, because it is about amending the State Constitution, and there are many pratfalls for it to actually to be amended
problem. In fact, non-Mormon and gay-friendly Utahns might be strong
allies.
And I'm feeling it will be overturned as well.
And nothing pisses Mormon's off more than posting their secret Temlp Ceremony everywhere. Here it is. Feel free to post it everywhere.
http://www.irr.org/mit/endowment-ceremony.html
This isn't going away in CA until gays are permitted to mary.
As an aside, I am a retired Attorney/Judge and have kept up with all pleadings filed. It's a case of first impression, to be sure, but I think the possiblity that Prop 8 will be ruled unconstitutional is high.
Joseph Smith was a mormon and this ceremony was stolen from the Masons.
Scientology is way more fun and spacey.
Someone needs to get video of temple services and post it all over YouTube. They just hate the sunshine.
Tonight, San Francisco Civic Center, 5:30 pm. From Civic Center (Market/7th) to Dolores Park. Facebook event. "We have contacted local media and several popular websites have posted the event. Dozens of people have donated their time to hand out flyers. We are protesting on Friday in San Francisco because it was in San Francisco that the California Supreme Court decided to give equality to LGBTQ people earlier this year and it made San Francisco very happy. After all the work that so many people around the country and the Bay Area did to get to the point where we were earlier this year, we're not going to sit by and do nothing..."
Long Beach, California: Friday, November 7, 2008, 6:45pm - 9:00pm, Broadway and Redondo. "We will march from Redondo to Alamitos (Hamburger Mary's), to tell Californians, the nation and the world that we are not second class citizens and we will not accept being treated that way."
Santa Barbara, California: Friday, November 7, 2008 Time: 5:00pm - 6:00pm Location: De La Guerra Plaza Street: [700-756] De La Guerra Plz.
A protest in Salt Lake City is planned: "If Jacob Whipple gets what he's hoping for, at least 1,000 Utahns will turn out Friday night to protest the involvement of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in helping pass Proposition 8, a California ballot measure that effectively killed, at least for now, same-sex marriages in that state. The call for people to gather at 6 p.m. at North Temple and State Street in Salt Lake City is to show solidarity with those protesting in California, Whipple explained."
SATURDAY:
This Saturday, November 8, 6pm, Gather at Sunset Junction in Silver Lake, Corner of Sunset Blvd. and Santa Monica Blvd, Los Angeles. Our reader Phillip Thomas writes: "There's a little event planned on Saturday afternoon. By little, I mean people are flying, driving, coming by bus and train for this. I heard on tv this evening that organizers are estimating 20,000 marchers for this. I think everyone needs to take part in this. Even if just for an hour or so. Numbers matter, and I can't think of anything that would be more memorable, historical, or significant that doing this on one Saturday evening. Forget the dinner, the mall, the bar, the movie, the relaxing night at home. If you have to work, call in or leave early. Add yourself to this crowd. Invite all of your friends, your coworkers, neighbors. Make a party out of it."
Pathetic!
Boycotts - Yes! But equally important is to keep the spotlight on this secretive religion. That's what they most fear.
http://www.irr.org/mit/endowment-ceremony.html
Whoa...
You seen to have recovered quite well tho...
Being free of a cult and it's teachings (and a host of other church and family related dysfunctions) was not easy. Ask scytherius below. But whatever in me caused me to see the wrong of it all is the light that now guides my happy and fulfilled life.
We in CT should encourage anything that brings the pervert Brian Brown and his girlfriend Maggie Gallagher down so that they no longer get rich off causing misery to others.
http://www.utah.travel/contact-us/
I had a response from them within hours of my intentions to cancel all my engagements in that state of hate.
Sorry. That was intolerant. I've been a bit cranky.
Let's hit them in the balls repeatedly until they can't reproduce anymore. (Metaphorically, of course.)
I live in Florida and temporarily there's nothing I can do about that but as soon as I find out who the people were who financed the Amendment 2 initiative here they won't get any more of my money.
Is there someplace that has a list of the people who supported and fought against these initiatives? Give us the tools and we'll show them the consequences of their actions!
i also will be adding marriott to my list of banned companies and will make sure they know it
let's keep it up -- this isn't an election or political issue, this is an american equality and human and civil rights issue
Organize a call-in day. Publish the numbers for the LDS in SLC and have every gay person in the US call to complain on a certain day. We can shut down the phone system. Repeat as often as necessary.
We can follow up with emails. A couple of million emails on one day shoould crash their servers.
1) Yes on 8 financial documents -- They need to be looked over with a fine toothed comb. I have a feeling the Mormon Church (which by the way reported only something like 4K worth of in-kind donations) gave a ton more in-kind than they are reporting. Once this is found out, complaints need to be filed with the state charging the mormons with not accurately reporting their involvement.
2) We need to pick boycott targets that gays and their supporters can easily affect. Even though the Sundance Film Festival is probably one of the gay friendliest festivals around, if you travel there you are still financing Utah through sales and hotel taxes. It's a tough call, but it would be the easiest to make an affect on.
3) This Sunday, people need to protest individual mormon churches. Unlike other churches, the Mormons are all one big church. No Mormon church is run independently, but is controlled financially and doctrinally from a spoke and wheel organization that is based in Utah.
4) These protests need to happen once a month.
I have a feeling they won't like that.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1316/is_...
its sacrifice of spiritual principles for profane opportunities, and the suffering that it brings into the lives of its young LGBT people.
Anything that serves to cut back on Mormon profits in any way possible is a good thing. A boycott of Mormon owned businesses AND on the entire state of Utah means less money for Mormons to use spreading hate around the country and will serve to shine a big light under the rock that is Mormonism.
I will do anything and everything I can to help the boycott.
The bastards need to be brought to reality and taught a lesson. The statue of the supposed angel Mormoni sounding his trumpet needs to be toppled so that only the statue of American Liberty, such as sits on the dome of the US capitol has voice over us all.
Oh yeah!!
Greetings,
In light of the recent events that have targeted and marginalized a group of US citizens to be discriminated against and treated less than equal in the state of California, as encouraged by the LDS church, I feel compelled to inform you that I will immediately cancel our family ski vacation in your state.
As a God fearing Christian, I cannot endorse the actions of any religious organization that promotes hatred, fear, discrimination and intolerance towards any group of people. Those are not the values of the Christian faith and they are certainly not the values I want to teach my children. I take our faith very seriously and find it abhorrent that a religious organization that professes to follow Jesus Christ is engaging in actions that are completely against those very teachings they claim to follow.
I was shocked and saddened to learn the vast amount of money that was poured into mobilizing people to vote in favor of hate, fear, discrimination and bigotry. That money could have been used to help feed the hungry, help the elderly, clothe the poor or homeless and a myriad other ways.
I will not teach my children to hate, fear, and/or discriminate against others and I will not knowingly support any religious organization that purposefully taints God's name to further their own agendas.
It is for those reasons stated above that I will no longer support the state of Utah or its tourism and I will encourage other family members and friends to do the same.
Sincerely,
Mario Carranza
Rockville, MD
James Neill, The Origins and Role of Same-Sex Relationships in Human Societies, 2009 McFarland & Co. Publishers
BTW. It California that passed prop 8 not Utah.
GROW-UP.
But can someone in the organization please tell Lori Jean to step aside and let new blood take over? She gave it a good effort, but now she's encouraging donations of $5 to send postcards to the head of the Mormon church? I can send my own post card thanks. Our money would be better served donated to the ACLU and LAMBDA Legal. In the short term, this is going to be a legal challenge and they are the most in-the-trenches groups right now.
Go to this site
http://www.sfgate.com/webdb/prop8/
You can look up donors in favor of Prop 8. Select UT from the State menu and then check the Support Prop 8 box.
The amount of money coming in from Utah is freaking staggering. Hundreds of donors, many in the $10,000 and above range. One guy gave ONE MILLION DOLLARS.
This travesty was organized by the Mormons and financed out of UTAH. Fuck them all.
They need to be shamed for supporting bigotry and discrimination.
Maybe there will be pressure on the LDS church within Utah, if it starts costing the whole state.
Progressives need to boycott their recreational areas, move the Sundance Festival, and boycott Marriott. Some research should follow and other things should be boycotted. Additionally, since they put so much money into this POLITICAL situation, then their tax-exempt status SHOULD BE WITHDRAWN.
this was posted earlier today, for those of you who didn't see it before....sign it and pass the link around
Bans and boycotts of products and services of independent parties will not hurt The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and it will not convince the prophet and others leaders to change their minds on which side they will support.
I suggest a letter of thanks to him for the statement he made Wed, the hard work he has to do, and for the support he has and is showing the gay community.
"My pedophile Catholic Priest fought LONG and HARD for passage of Proposition H8!"
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/...
I bet if being gay meant that you didn't have to pay taxes, you'd see a LOT of new gay people!
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p38SnNWW...
There were 562 inidividual donors -- for a total of $2,554,120
Edited to repair defect in worksheet.
http://www.irs.gov/irs/article/0,,id=178241,00....
it would be great if someone put together an automated process for filing a complaint, similar to this - http://www.boingboing.net/2007/10/16/get-your-f...
Seriously, the judges/activists/politicals/lawyers gave both sides a shot at working this out through a vote. Both sides agreed. And yet, the No voters still cry and moan about losing. It's really childish. Get over it. You lost. By a fair and decisive vote. YOU LOST. Quit trying to blame others for it. The Mormon church is NOT 53.5% of California - but yet they take the brunt of it.
The YES campaign was organized and persistent. They did more to spread their word than the No voters. They campaigned without harsh words, without screaming matches, without stealing signs, without graffiti, without HATE as you like to call us, haters. NO RIGHTS were taken away from homosexuals. Civil Unions grant the same rights as Married couples. It was always about the definition of marriage for the YES voters.
What amazed me most about this Proposition is that I am a YES voter and when I expressed my voice (my freedom to speak my opinion) I was called a hater, but when a NO voter spoke their opinion to me, I listened and agreed to disagree. I never received my freedom to speak on the YES side of things. I was always the one taking things away. I was never granted that same luxury of having my opinion.
CALIFORNIANS VOTED TWICE ON THIS MEASURE, IN 2000 AND AGAIN THIS WEEK. BOTH TIMES CALIFORNIANS DECIDED AGAINST THE NO VOTERS. SUCK IT UP, GET OVER IT, IT'S DONE.
(_*_)
By the way, I agree with nicho. I to would like to know how much it hurts when you fuck yourself.
BTW. Not a sore loser...just one that is severely pis*sed off. You be sure to post one of your rights that you would like us to put up on the ballot and see how you like it. 48% right minded people voted against prop 8 - and all 48% are not gay. That should give you a hint. And please, this is not done by any means. Unless you are againist free speech?
http://lmaw.org/freedom/docs/CA-Perez.pdf
Maybe 2010. I won't be going back.
Are you naturally a bigot or do you have to work at it?
They orderd $hit and they started mess. Game on. Next time those nice Mormon boys come to my door, I'm not going to be as kind when I decline their offer to join the "One True Church". I am going to tell them that their church sponsored the passage of Prop 8, repealing the law that gave my friends and family the right to marry. Ki$$ my a$$ and get off my porch.
Above is lawsuit filed day before yesterday....hope is not lost, and according to CA Attorney General Jerry Brown, all 18,000 or same sex couples are STILL LEGALLY MARRIED...
BTW. Did your great, great grandfather approve of lynchings. Probably so, as it wasn't a civil right issue back then, huh?
The thing to remember is that Mormons tend to be malleable when it comes to their pocketbooks. For example, I heard that Blacks used to be barred from the upper eschalons of their "church" until the Fed came in and threatened their tax-exempt status. Guess what happened? "God" suddenly appeared and told their "prophet" that He had a change of heart! Same thing happened with polygamy.
I say slap the fuck out of them financially, send them to their room and make them stay there until they've thought long and hard about what they've done.
I did not see anything about Google. I DID see: Mariot and LaQuinta hotels (where you can purchase a nice porno with your room, thankyouverymuch), Black & Decker, American Express, 1-800-Contacts, Diebold (surprise!), Hollywood Video, Dell Computer (!!!), Novell, Ryder, Oakley...
For the idiots who say "get over it you lost"? All I can say is you are pigs. You're tearing families apart. I highly doubt you'd take advice like "get over it" if YOUR marriage was repealed by hateful bigots.
I just changed my mind.
Yeah. Some of these sorta surprised me:
Black & Decker
Oakley (I wanted to get another pair!)
I won’t be getting an American Express card anytime soon, so that’s no big deal, but Dell Computer?!? No wonder they fired the sexy Stephen “Dude! You’re getting a Dell!” kid when he got busted for pot.
I'm also glad to have the link, glootmaxmus. Thanks.
What am I going to do? I'm going to take my husband, my son, and my pets and move somewhere else. Some may see this as a "gay" issue, but I see this as an issue of fairness and compassion. Allowing a gay couple to wed doesn't detract from my marriage one little bit, nor does it "endanger" my family. In fact, I think that this world could use a little more love, and embracing loving relationships between adults can't help but be a good thing for everyone.
P.S. Does anyone think it is wrong to apply laws to marriage or "legally define" marriage?
I think we should seek revocation of the church's tax status and that we should petition the supreme court to enforce the constitution's separation of church and state clause. Alternatively we should just place a proposition on the ballot to deny churches the right to support any action designed to abridge or deny a citizen's civil rights.
If you even have a clue about politics in the U.S. you know that dirty politics works. It's just ironic that a church that claims it wants us all to make nice; treat each other with civility, respect, and love, is only interested in those sentiments now, since their hateful, disrespectful, uncivil proposition succeeded in taking away our civil rights.
You can put lipstick on proposition 8 but it's still a pig; an uncivil, disrespectful, hateful pig!
Had I voted yes for prop 8, then I would be branded a gay hater.
It would have nothing to do that I have deep rooted religious beliefs..no, not Mormon....Methodist.
It would have nothing to do that I believe in the Word of God.
It's pure gay hate.
Funny you ask? Yes, because you all in here are the most intolerant bigots yet.
You hate "anti-gays" ( your words, not mine). You hate anyone and everyone who are Mormons. You hate any religion that states marriage is between man and woman. You hate Utah.
But most of all.... YOU HATE ANYONE AND EVERYONE WHO DO NOT SHARE YOUR VIEWS ON GAY MARRIAGE.
Who's the bully and bigot?
And I don't hate people who don't share our view on e-quality. Their hypocrisy is what is sickening to me though (Larry Craig, Jim Bakker, Jim Swaggart, Ted Haggard, et al).
being a heterosexual does not require you to be a religious devout being. Wrong is being defined by you, and the group you accompany. I disagree wholeheartedly with what you define as being wrong. In essence, it is your opinion.
Wrong, in my belief, would be to allow gays to evolutionize an institution such as marriage, which God himself created for man and woman.
I don't hate gays, or gays who don't share my religious views.
Prop 8 is not civil, respectful, or loving. It is hateful!
I am civil, respectful, and most of all... loving. I have tolerance for those who have alternative lifestyles.
Does that mean I should let you tarnish a traditional christain practice while sitting down? I have a voice too.
I wonder... how many homosexuals voted yes for prop 8? If you think not one did, you'd be dead wrong.
Let me ask you, did you decide to be straight? What makes you think I decided to be gay? In fact, why on earth would anybody decide to adopt an "alternative lifestyle" that people such as yourself can only tolerate and who seek to deny their civil rights?
Proclaiming that you tolerate me will not get you points in heaven. Acceptance is the name of the game. Being civil, respectful, and loving while supporting proposition 8 is an oxymoron. They are mutually exclusive. You can do one or the other but not both. So choose!
Suggesting that person is raised gay, has to be gay, and vice versa?
Does everyone raised in a "straight" family mean they are straight?
You are suggesting that you DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE in whether you are gay, or not.
Yes, I DECIDED to be STRAIGHT. At some point in my life, it became MY choice. Just as you did at some point in your life, and still do. It is your choice be the way you are now, and has been.
In tolerating your lifestyle, I'm not looking for "points" into anywhere, and to suggest otherwise is just being totally ignorant to the Word to which guides my lifes decisions.
Acceptance is a self served delusion, law recognized marriage won't give you that. Its something that comes from your inner being. If thats what you need to feel accepted, then you have a long life ahead of you of disappointment.
Lets see......... vote yes for prop 8 = you are incompassionate and uncivilized .
Yup, there's true logic.
That's right: I DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE. I was born gay. It is genetic. It has nothing to do with the way I was raised. If it were a choice and if the way I was raised had anything to do with it, I would be straight.
Surely you don't believe that people choose to be gay, to be persecuted and reviled by people such as yourself.
To the leaders of the LDS Church: civility, respect, and love, work both ways. You give it. You get it. Isn't that what Christianity teaches?
- Andreas Kralios
You all seem to be campaigning hard too, except "after" the election. Seems more like a political TANTREM than anything else.
Good luck with your future political endeavors.
John