DISQUS

AMERICAblog: Reid, Hoyer: Don't expect fast action on economic recovery package

  • existenz · 11 months ago
    I'll take a well-written, good bill with enforcement to prevent fraud and waste over a speedy pork-filled bill. But I find it hard to believe that with 3 or 4 months since October, Obama and the Democrats haven't been able to craft together a strong New Deal-type stimulus program. You give $200 billion to the states, a combination of tax increases on the rich and tax cuts for the middle class, put $500 billion into infrastructure, green jobs, SUPERTRAINS, and then establish a WPA-type entity to ensure that the money is spent smartly.

    The only holdup will be one Republican vote in the Senate. I'd write a pure Democrat bill and then lure Specter, Snowe, Collins, anyone over to vote for it. Or use some legal maneuvers to make it filibuster-proof. Whatever. But please don't bend over backwards to the GOP, they have no real power anymore.
  • HelenaMontana · 11 months ago
    The Democrats, sadly, are just a degree less corrupt and inept than the Republicans. We're fucked.
  • pdxprobert · 11 months ago
    Ive read that there will be so much obstructionism at the federal level that the citizens will become extremely disenchanted with the federal govt..., which may be the goal..... the state govt's will become more of a focal point for services and the feds will be more for taking care of the military... I wouldnt be surprised to see the USA break up like the Russian Professor recently predicted, into 6 regions... the states are already looking at selling off infrastructure to private corporations to bring in revenue... once the commons are sold, what role with the feds play... I think the next 4 years will be unlike anything weve ever experienced...
  • Griffon · 11 months ago
    There is, of course, only one reason the stimulus package, or any essential legislation is not moving with appropriate alacrity:

    They are not afraid of us.

    Despite the pundits expounding on the myriad excuses and procedural obstacles that might impede so 'earnest and well intentioned' but, sadly, ultimately stymied congressional body; stymied by forces beyond their 'earnest and well intentioned' control, it's Just Bad Luck. Of course, the Wall St. bailout blitzkrieg mobilization was an..anomaly. Keep believing.

    "People should not be afraid of their governments. The Government should be afraid of their people."
  • Webster · 11 months ago
    Griffon, that should be true. And nothing will change until the government starts to be afraid of the people. The economic mess may, however, help to bring this about--and this very same failure of the Dems to act quickly may help to fuel it.

    I've been out of work for a long time--with nothing to look forward to--and I've got nothing to lose either, at this point. The longer government sits on its hands and the more people discover how difficult it is out here when you're unemployed and no longer have hope--people might start demanding, protesting, marching.

    Perhaps those in their cushy government seats just really don't understand how bad it is out here. But the longer they do nothing, and more and more people become more and more desperate, it may change. Americans are slow to anger--but I feel the anger rising. Many, I think, are pinning a lot of hope on Obama--and waiting to see what he'll do--but it's daily becoming more and more dire for many of us.

    I don't know how much people can take, nor for how long they can take it--but when you reach the point of nothing to lose anymore, it may become time to start making the government afraid--very afraid--and not just afraid of being voted out of office, but genuinely afraid.
  • mirth · 11 months ago
    Webster,

    Remember all the little newz stories here and there about tanks that fire burning infrared beams and tiny mechanical insects that can fly into a crowd and (at the least) take a protester's picture? And the catv security cameras sprouting on every street corner? And, recently, at least one military unit training here for domestic disturbances?

    Well those and other such stories have done their job.

    Even if the economic situation becomes much worse, a citizen uprising, at least one of any consequence, is very unlikely.
  • Webster · 11 months ago
    It will depend on how bad it gets, I suppose, and how many people are, finally, impacted by this depression. For the sake of this country and for the people who are currently hurting and for those who soon will be, I hope things will improve so that it doesn't become necessary. But desperation on a massive scale can have astounding consequences.
  • mirth · 11 months ago
    I definitely agree with you on the "I hope..." thing.

    Desperation causes desperate acts, like, say, firing rockets at one's oppressor.

    Have you been able to find a job yet?
  • Webster · 11 months ago
    Thanks for asking, Mirth--no, no work found as yet as I head into my 4th year of unemployment. A few interviews, all gone to younger less-experienced candidates--and of course the competition for jobs is growing as more people are finding themselves unemployed. I still spend probably 6+ hours a day/six days a week looking and applying for anything at all that looks even remotely probable--but I've about reached the point of giving up completely--the anxiety and frustration is taking an enormous toll. I do volunteer work to take my mind off it, but the nightmare grows darker, daily. I know that sounds histrionic--but it is awful. I live as frugally as possible and have about a year's worth of living off my retirement savings left--if I'm careful. After that, frankly, who knows? Not that you needed to hear any of that--sorry--but since you asked...
  • Griffon · 11 months ago
    Our government will not obey their constituents easily. For years they have carefully eroded recourse and alternative while stretching the working public thin enough that they are consumed with keeping their heads above water; from paycheck to paycheck rather than demanding full account of our representatives' larceny.

    Hardly the ideal circumstances to demand, protest or march. The public can not readily afford even a missed work day to picket or demonstrate, much less become involved in protester arrests. The government, while blatantly forking over billions to unseen clientele without a hint of oversight, then turns into parsimonious, bemoaning milquetoast when confronted with public essentials and critical infrastructure.

    The game is indeed on and the public's perception, perpetuated by our government media, of the willing but toothless public servant is serving to delay the slow wrath of the unrestful and confused hoi polloi. In the end, it will not be the lawful protests, nor the demands and public outcries that will cause unease and restore a sense of focus to our august peacocks and peahens, but calculable losses to their biggest patrons. Corporations, the cephalopoda of any waning government, must feel the brunt firsthand what they have wrought through their 'access,' monopoly, media consolidation, and lopsided lobbyist game-fixing.

    It will take something(s) substantial and recalcitrant to convey to our 'leaders' the authentic message of urgency they so eloquently insulate themselves from via clubhouse and gated community; lavishly provided by their corporate hosts.

    As they behave, so should they be regarded and treated: as Constitutional apostates; using their position for personal enrichment at the expense of the Republic.
  • RevDrBillyBob · 11 months ago
    Reid, Hoyer: Don't expect anything but submission to McConnell.
  • dad · 11 months ago
    wtf
  • wearing out my F key · 11 months ago
    why does everything have to be such a god damned hurry?
    it took our government years to get us into this mess, and it's going to take years to clean it up, so please, congress, take your time.
  • MNPundit · 11 months ago
    I'd comment there, but Atrios doesn't actually exhibit passion about anything so: Running primaries against bad democrats has failed in every case but that of Al Wynn. Joe Lieberman is a more nuanced case, afterwards he certainly felt more emboldened to say f-u to lefties but he wasn't doing it as a D. Anyhow, until we actually have an actual plan for victories in the primaries all it does is make things worse and drain our resources.
  • triple7s · 11 months ago
    I think they should take a ruler into a room, measure, and they guy with the BIGGEST DICK gets to make the decisions. That my friends is the ONLY thing that makes any sense. Why do we continue to believe any of these people care about what happens to any of us.
  • Smitty · 11 months ago
    The blue dogs in Congress and DINOs in the senate, soon to have their own blue dog coalition, are bigger impediments to the Democrats than the republicans. At least with the republicans, you can point out to the public that they're the impediment to good government. When it's members of your own party that's impeding progress, it merely makes the public think that the Democrats don't know how to govern. With the inability of the Democrats to control their own members, I'm not sure they're wrong. I NEVER vote for a blue dog Democrat. If they want to govern like a republican, let the republicans elect them.
  • Indigo · 11 months ago
    "What's mine is not yours," said the Duchess to Alice.
  • Btalk314 · 11 months ago
    So, the big CHANGE in Congress will be from larceny to cowardice.
  • Attila the Blond · 11 months ago
    First order of business for the new Congress would seem to be the canning of the current DLC obstructionists and voting in LEADERS who understand that now is not the time for thumbs up butts.
  • Naja pallida · 11 months ago
    Wow, you know it's bad when Harry Reid is trying to lower expectations when everyone already has such low ones from him.
  • wild weasel · 11 months ago
    So, if the incoming President cannot stay at the Blair House, like past presidents, who is so important that they "bumped" Obama?

    Just wondering, but so far no answers.
  • Older_Wiser · 11 months ago
    I'd love to hear what Obama says about this. It looks like everything he promised is going down the drain real fast.

    Didn't Nancy Pelosi back Hoyer? And we know about Reid. I'm afraid Dem "leaders" are ALL blue dogs--but what are Dem voters to do when blue dogs are the only ones on the ballot? I'm about to give up and go totally rad...not an easy thing when you're 67. : )

    A former city housing project for the disabled and elderly (itself a former hotel) is being prepared to house families with children who are homeless in Charlotte where it's becoming a big problem, with over 3,000 school children having no home or living in motels (usually drug-infested). It will be filled before it's finished, as social service agencies that house the homeless are becoming more and more crowded.

    Sometimes I wish those in Congress could get a taste of what's happening to workers in this country who are losing jobs, housing, and becoming hopeless in the face of increasing poverty. But, like everything else in the last few years when people at the bottom were already feeling the effects of a recession, it took the same thing happening to people with better jobs, better housing and their own health coverage to really get any govt action at all.
  • pdxprobert · 11 months ago
    I think that was the plan... run repubs as dems... Rahm's specialty.....
  • KarenMrsLloydRichards · 11 months ago
    When the incumbency rate is 90-95%, they don't have to give a shit--they get re-elected no matter what.
  • paulbot5 · 11 months ago
    But you are assuming the so called stimulus package will do more good than harm
  • Webster · 11 months ago
    And doing nothing gives us what?
  • JDRhoades · 11 months ago
    Yes, we're all doomed, there is no hope, no one is any good, we should all just make a big ol' trash can full of poison Kool-Aid and kill ourselves now.

    Yeesh. Y'all have fun with your pity party. I'm out of here.
  • Older_Wiser · 11 months ago
    No one is having a pity party...but everyone is concerned about what's happening to this country. We cannot allow people to be jobless, homeless, without health care or education. That is the path to failure. We have already cheated our children enough because many of us settled for a life of comfort which never pinched us. Too many scorned intellectualism and critical thought and it's about time we taught our children that to be that way, instead of simply becoming consumers, is the way to lead one's life. To be full of ideas, to be creative, is what we should encourage in our children. We have allowed business to export our jobs and at the same time encouraged consumption while having no alternatives.

    We have only taken baby steps to preserve the planet and ourselves.

    Criticism of govt officials is supposed to be encouraged in this country. Quite frankly, not enough people do it--and even some who do, don't take action. Many on this blog do both.
  • Jay · 11 months ago
    Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
  • dula · 11 months ago
    JD perhaps you simply haven't grasped the severity of the situation.
  • Ferdiad · 11 months ago
    When will this blog and the other alleged Democratic blogs write about the carnage going on in Gaza? When will these blogs that supposedly stand up for the oppressed and less fortunate express their outrage over the ghettos that exist in Gaza and the inhumane treatment the Palestinians suffer at the hands of the Israelis? When I ask? Why are you silent? How is it that 70 percent of Gaza children are seriously malnurished and you say nothing? NOTHING. You don't even write about it. Despicable.
  • monitor · 11 months ago
    Since the invasion, AMERICAblog has posted twice about Israel/Gaza. The threads voiced people's strong opinions. Where were you?

    sitemonitor
  • wearing out my F key · 11 months ago
    two posts about isreal/ gaza.
    two.
    that's fantastic.
  • Ferdiad · 11 months ago
    I apologize for not seeing those posts. It just seems to me that this is the most important issue facing the world right now and it is getting little play on the blogs.

    For the record, I have lived in Israel. I have seen with my own eyes what is going on. I lived there during Camp David and know that what was reported in the Israeli press is much different that what people think they know over here. Arafat was not offered a Nation, he was offered surface control over about 93% of the West Bank and Gaza - no control over borders or ports, no control over water rights or minerals. It was not a real offer and he rightly turned it down.
  • Jay · 11 months ago
    The Palestinians don't DESERVE any sympathy. They're terrorists! The Israelis are the good guys in all this. Leave them the hell alone!
  • tbhull · 11 months ago
    Where is that little pussy whimp from Iran that talks so much smack when the Palestinians need some slack? Funny how this 5 foot coward talks a mean game about Israel and then when it comes nut cutting time all Iran can come up with is a plea for more suicide bombers.

    The Iranian leader and all the mullahs look like eunuchs as Israel does its destruction with impunity, as per the usual.
  • Gregory Lyons · 11 months ago
    As Cowboy said, there are two political parties. The one the politicians belong to, and the one everyone else belongs to.
  • tbhull · 11 months ago
    If it means getting trillions to throw away to Wall Street muy pronto then these corrupt pieces pf shit have no problem moving fast. Harry Reid needs father time to come a calling.
  • lynchie · 11 months ago
    And by the way before someone on here makes the comment that I am a glass is half empty guy. I am not. I am a glass is fucking empty guy. There hasn't been a drop of booze in my glass for a long time. The politicians drank it all.
  • lynchie · 11 months ago
    The real obstruction to change are the very politicians who sit in the house and senate. They don't want some freakin upstart from Chicago putting through new bills, changing the way this country runs, cutting taxes on the middle class and poor and basically changing the status quo. They want to continue to drag shit out for months, take their breaks every couple of weeks, do fuck all for most of the year and then rush home to tell the electorate it is the other party that is stopping everything. There is no difference between the GOP and the Dems, the believe in filling their own pockets, looking after the corporations and then enjoying their lobbyist paid for dinners, a couple of martinis, a nice new york strip, get the brown bag of cash when they pick up their over coat and look forward to the first of many paid trips to golf, chase hookers and sit on the porch of their lobbyist paid for country homes. When will we get this into our thick skulls they don't give a shit what we want. Where is the push for Universal Health Care, I'll tell you someone in Washington wiped their ass with that bill along with any other changes Obama talked about. Reality is----Nothing will change.
  • Akaison · 11 months ago
    I now see the path for the Depression to occur and the rise of a new national party to replace the Democrats.
  • lynchie · 11 months ago
    i second that!
  • lynchie · 11 months ago
  • maudgonne · 11 months ago
    My grief carries no desire for revenge, which I know to be always in vain. But, in truth, as a grieving son, I am finding it hard to distinguish between what the Israelis call terrorists and the Israeli pilots and tank crews who are invading Gaza. What is the difference between the pilot who blew my father to pieces and the militant who fires a small rocket? I have no answers but, just as I am to become a father, I have lost my father.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-...
  • Bush Bites · 11 months ago
    These guys are just looking for excuses to chicken out.

    Man.
  • Bush Bites · 11 months ago
    BTW:

    Interesting article in Fox Street Journal on the recovery package today.

    Apparently, Obama put a lot of targeted tax cuts in for individuals and businesses.

    Could help him chip away at Repub opposition, if Harry doesn't convince the Repubs to hang tough.
  • Chris From Maine · 11 months ago
    lets see.. when the bankers need money, they get a bill done in less then a week. When America is suffering, we have to have "patience".

    do u need more evidence as to who really runs things?
  • ComradeRutherford · 11 months ago
    The GOP ordered Reid to not bother with the stimulus package. Reid only does what the Republicans order him to do.

    As Chris says, if it were the CEO class getting trillions of dollars in welfare with no responsibilities, it would be done in a half a day. Since it's the American People getting some small modicum of help, there's no point in bothering the Democratic Leadership.

    There's only ONE explanation that makes any sense of the behavior of the Democratic Party since 1980: they are controlled by the GOP.
  • John · 11 months ago
    When anything comes out of the MSM, realize that it is for public consumption. There is a plan in place not only to revive our economy, but the worlds. There just not ready yet to let the little people in on it. But someone is. He just updated today.

    www.worldreports.org
  • CruzBustamove · 11 months ago
    I have nothing BUT low expectations when it comes to Reid and Hoyer.
  • cwazycajun · 11 months ago
    This is why WE dont need more democrats we need more progressive democrats in office the ones in office now for the most part are corpratist and willdo anything to stay in power to keep the status quo inplace we need more kusinich's and wexleres and a hand full of otheres that actually have our best intrest at heart not the intrest of the corprate sector as long as leaders like reid and pelosi stay in power( shame on you S.F) then nopthing will change