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"Whatever it takes" means that Warren wishes to advance the teachings of Christ whatever it takes. That automatically barrs lying stealing and discriminating because Christ taught against them. The message of the Gospel itself is against these things.
I am neither a supporter of Rick Warren nor of evangelical christians, but it serves our purpose to be more deliberative and less reactionary.
Anyway you're right. I was merely saying there's more than meets the eye in this speech. I understand the red flags it raised but I think if you can see past those it wasn't as controversial first glance would make it.
I think you misunderstand Jim Olson's meaning of invisible. I believe, and please feel free to step in and correct me, that he means that we should allow the Gospels to speak for themselves, and not hammer our own interpretations onto others. Proclaim the good news by guiding others to it, but ultimately individuals must find God for themselves.
Read the rest of it. What you said above is exactly what they want you to think. Harmless, sweet Christians,
BS. They want the freaking WORLD, fool
Inspirational.
Waiting for the excuses from the Obamaniacs in 3...2...1
I can hardly wait to hear his take on Niemoller, Gandhi and King.
"The quotations of Chairman Mao" were published in 1964, about 15 years after the Communist took power in China" it had nothing to do with the long struggle for power...
Bending the truth and skewering history isn't a good way to make a point, no matter how distorted
Because they don't care about truth.
This man has to realize--and sooner, rather than later--that there are a lot of people who aren't going to support *anything* he proposes, regardless of whom he "reaches out" to, but he sure as hell will alienate a lot of legitimate supporters with ham-handed offerings like this.
I shudder to think that the incoming US president chose this man for anything, much less to represent the Christian community of the country. What he's trying to create is terrorism, as far as I'm concerned, if he thinks that the Chinese Cultural Revolution provides a template for his plans. Warren is either very stupid or very dangerous, or both -- and surely 8 years of that particular Molotov cocktail (in the form of the imbecile Bush) is enough! He is precisely the kind of crazed religious fanatic who makes sane people want to see all religion just slither back to whatever cloud-cuckoo-land it crawled out of.
Krispy Kreme Celebrates Obama with Free “Freedom of Choice” Donuts
'The doughnut giant released the following statement yesterday:
“Krispy Kreme Doughnuts, Inc. (NYSE: KKD) is honoring American's sense of pride and freedom of choice on Inauguration Day, by offering a free doughnut of choice to every customer on this historic day, Jan. 20. By doing so, participating Krispy Kreme stores nationwide are making an oath to tasty goodies -- just another reminder of how oh-so-sweet ‘free’ can be.”
Just an unfortunate choice of words? For the sake of our Wednesday morning doughnut runs, we hope so. The unfortunate reality of a post Roe v. Wade America is that "choice" is synonymous with abortion access and celebration of 'freedom of choice' is a tacit endorsement of abortion rights on demand.
President-elect Barack Obama promises to be the most virulently pro-abortion president in history. Millions more children will be endangered by his radical abortion agenda.'
. . .
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/jan/090115...
I will fail to follow Rick Warren.
Overgeneralizing words like anything, whatever etc are the hallmark of mediocre thinkers and their over dramatized rhetoric.
Warren isn't the meat and potatoes, he's more like a Waldorf salad. But, at this dinner, Obama is the chef and he controls what comes out of the kitchen.
Nationalism is a disease." Albert Einstein
Hitler succeeded to gain power and mislead millions of people. I'm afraid so.
To suggest that he succeeded to obtain nefarious goals is not a ratification of those goals or the method by which he obtained them.
I am counting down the days but I won't be watching the proceedings Tuesday. For me the reason to celebrate came November 4th -- it was a wonderful night, one of a handful of moments of true jubilation in my life. Now I look forward to seeing what we can accomplish during an Obama administration.
Read the rest of it.
believing that all land roaming species actually were rounded up and did reside on ark for 40 days without consuming each other because there certainly hasn't been any evidence of evolution
People were actually turned into pillars of salt
What other options do you have than to ask for blind, fanatical faith and a belief in "magic"?
And, there is no monopoly on ideas such as "judge not lest ye be judged". You don not have to be a "certain kind" of Christain or a member of ANY organized religion to have a moral compass.
Benevolent domination and subjugation; blameless, for it's His will that non-believers are disposed of.
"Deus macht frei"
"Gott macht frei"
Gott bless America
He was more talking about what a group of radicals could get done. huh imagine if 20,000 people had the passion he was describing in organizing and fighting Prop 8 BEFORE he was passed.
sometimes I swear people forget there are people of faith who read Progressive Blogs also.
For me, the days of trying to explain and persuade are OVER!
There is right and there is wrong. Understanding the certainty of each is YOUR responsibility.
How is that not creepy and terrifying?
they would not be in a stadium to hear a pastor preach about God, and Jesus.
The point was not what it was used for, that passion could be used for anything THAT was the point. he was telling a stadium of Christians, yes that power and passion and dedication could be used for anything, and what if we Christians used it to serve God?
that was the point of that speech, and the title imply's something different, and as I said this is what they did to Rev. Wright.
It's like conservatives complaining that the US government hasn't been conservative enough the last 8 years, when they had it all tied up like kittens ready to drown.
No, what Warren and his ilk are always saying is, "It has to be Christianity MY way or else!" And the 'or else' part never means anything good for any outsiders.
However, he seems to have no idea that the groups he cites, were puppets to their masters. Having robots as followers. He seems to think that these demonstrations of devotion to their leaders were spontaneous, rather than carefully orchestrated by the gov't.
Warren's examples shows he is an idiot. I just can't believe how he skewers history, especially his idiotic "1939 Munich reference"
Warren is doing what John of Leiden to Aimee MacPherson were doing, using Jesus as a shell, and filling it up with whatever gobblegook concoction that gives them powerful glee.
I think Warren should be more ashamed that he comes across as a dumbshit/idiot for not knowing and understanding history, and basically making crap up. He think robots programmed to do good, rather than evil will solve all the problems and make the globe part of Christian Inc, with CEO Rick Warren in charge. He doesn't understand that "good" is subjective not objective...
I would send him to theology school and learn Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, and realize that the Bible wasn't written in stone via the King James Version
Obama should have steered very clear of this nutjob.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYIU09o1gsI&feat...
That's whatcha get when you follow fools!
Turning to Very Significant Cultural News:
Andrew Wyeth, 1917 - 2009, R.I.P.
Thanks for all those lovely paintings.
http://www.towleroad.com/2009/01/rick-warren-co...
The indoctrination scene with the woman screaming at the kid? Very similar in my mind to the Jugend Corps.
Frankly, Warren is a Pharisee--you know someone that Jesus fought against. This is a byproduct of Rovian Republican practices: What's right is wrong, what's up is down, what's insane is sane.
Because of the New Testament's frequent depictions of Pharisees as self-righteous rule-followers, the word "pharisee" (and its derivatives: "pharisaical", etc.) has changed in meaning and has come into semi-common usage in English to describe a hypocritical and arrogant person who places the letter of the law above its spirit. Jews today (who subscribe to Pharisaic Judaism) typically find this insulting if not anti-Semitic.
An important binary in the New Testament is the opposition between law and love. Accordingly, the New Testament presents the Pharisees as obsessed with man-made rules (especially concerning purity) whereas Jesus is more concerned with God’s love; the Pharisees scorn sinners whereas Jesus seeks them out.
Many Christians and non-Christians object that the four Gospels, which were canonized after Christianity had separated from Judaism (and after Pharisaism emerged as the dominant form of Judaism), are likely a very biased source concerning the conduct of the Pharisees. Some have argued that Jesus was himself a Pharisee and that his arguments with Pharisees is a sign of inclusion rather than fundamental conflict (disputation being the dominant narrative mode employed in the Talmud as a search for truth, and not necessarily a sign of opposition).
/snark
freedom scares them I guess.
this is scary as hell to me... hitler, lenin and mao??
yes, they did change the world... and he wants his church to emmulate them? egad.
you have to give him credit for being honest about the plan for world domination though... and he knows it won't happen without using the tactics of hitler, lenin and mao either.
absolute power ALWAYS corrupts absolutely.
One wonders what "purpose" he might have in mind?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
so, the question remains... he gathered those people to unite them in Christ, right?
how much did he net from the gathering?
... pass the plate.
I'm not against religion, faith is a good thing to have... I'm against theocracy.
Wouldn't it be great if we could get rid of religion in that short time? Sadly, though, there will always be the sheeple...those who always need someone else to give meaning to their lives instead of being responsible for their own happiness and fulfillment. This is why there will always be the Rick Warrens of the world, the Bushes, the Hitlers, the Maos, etc., etc. Perfectly all right if you want your life to be controlled by others. That's not what the US is about, though. Jim Jones' followers found that out too late.
This is why I hate it when any so-called "leader" is called "charismatic." That's when I start backing off...no matter if what they're saying at the moment I agree with. They are starting to call Obama "charismatic" and while I like him for the most part, I already have disagreements with him, as most others on this blog do.
Esp. in his selection of Warren, among other things.
Put a man under a spotlight and you get a better look at him. This is one evil pig.
... a spider named rove?
Those were His words. No, really.
Whatever it takes.....?
Would he care to spell out his game plan?
"The Rhetoric of Enmity"
http://www.gresham.ac.uk/event.asp?PageId=45&Ev...
"Demonization and Witch Hunts in Religion and Politics"
http://www.gresham.ac.uk/event.asp?PageId=45&Ev...
makes you wonder what he thinks of the pilot of that airliner that crashed into the Hudson River. Maybe that's unfair, but but to continue in that unfair vein, Warren probably thinks the man was evil for preventing all those souls from going to the Lord.
He sees Evil and gets ENVIOUS and WANTS TO COPY IT. What fool would take a bet that he's not gonna deny this at least three times?
There are no words. Usually when I use the phrase "Nazis-for-Jesus" I am using it figuratively, I think. [I thought.] How is this not insulting to Jesus ('If Hitler can do it Jesus can too?') and also insulting to Hitler, as he was a talented speaker and organizer clearly Warren's superior. ??
Thank You John, for this horrifying clip.
Above all else, even Hillary as SoS, the selection of Warren is what chilled my enthusiastic support and fired up willingness to trust the Obama administration and to do what I can to help accomplish his goals.
There is still time, Barack...
Perhaps more subtly, we should note; what Warren is talking about is a movie. The event was staged to be filmed. All of that slavish devotion, all the camera angles, all the special effects-all scripted to convince people who were not there of just how nearly divine Germany, the Party, and that wonderful Mr. Hitler should be understood to be. The script was so good that most of the people there got the same rush. Mr. Hitler was more or less the executive producer, and the director worshiped the ground he walked on. It was not even the first draft of the movie. That covered the 1933 Party Congress, but all the copies the German government knew about were destroyed in 1934 when one of the featured performers had to be executed. What makes Warren even more profoundly ill-informed is that he manages to illustrate that he does not get it in the context of making a presentation at a scripted mass rally, recorded on video, where he is the featured performer. One suspects the presence of a substantial quantity of performance envy. Instead of blithering about how wonderfully effective Hitler was, Warren should be considering what the German people got in 1945 for emulating that artistic representation of devotion. He might even do well to consider just what role way too many of the German churches played in all that.
His cheesy and breathless grasp of 20th Century history is also worth considering, but I have agreed to be a pall bearer in the morning. The short version is that all the guys he talks about were big time con artists who put themselves and the countries and ideas they claimed to love in entirely untenable situations and caused vast collateral damage in the process. There was nowhere to go but down.
You make good points and I was glad to read them.