-
Website
http://www.americablog.com/ -
Original page
http://www.americablog.com/2008/12/rick-warren-suggests-that-jews-muslims.html -
Subscribe
All Comments -
Community
-
-
Top Commenters
-
Popular Threads
All Comments
"Hopefully individuals passionately expressing opinions from the left and the right will recognize that both of us have shown a commitment to model civility in America."
My question is when will he go from condemning us to hell to being civil? the mind fairly reels.
Saying that if you are Jewish, Muslim, or any other kind of religious believer other than Christian means you are going to hell is basic doctrine.
The Pope believes this, the Patriarch of the Greek Orthodox believe this, Episcopalian bishops believe this.
Meanwhile, Rick Warren, in his role in Obama's inauguration, will be implicitly representing America. It's quite fair for American citizens to object, just like we would object to questionable uses of tax money.
(I wonder: Will taxpayers be paying for Warren's travel, etc. expenses?)
Jesus taught peace and love, not bigotry, hatred, war ... and greed. Warren would be very surprised if he looked up as he would find the guy who he worships as his god wears red, has horns, hoofs and a tail and carries a pitchfork. Last I recall, Jesus loved the poor and had glowing things to say about the poor.
Your point has been made, we all know what a retartded asshole Rick Warren is and we all know he not going to be in Obama's cabinet so, for God's sake and your own sanity, MOVE ON!
It's getting embarrassing.
Thanks anyway.
Keep up the great work, John.
Not to mention, Catholics, liberal Protestants like Methodists, Mormons, etc. He thinks God is very exclusive. I'm convinced he also doesn't want Black, Brown, Red or Yellow people polluting his heaven either even if they are "Christian" except of course if they are very rich and donated generously to his church. I think I am going to send the SOB a penny so I go to heaven too. <g>
How can these people believe that God is as small-minded, bigoted, racist and hateful, not to mention, warlike and murderous as they are? Or that God made His church especially to make people rich and grant them heaven for trampling on other human beings to obtain those worldly goods?
I don't think the prayers are working.
I don't get it. What was Obama THINKING?
Last night, I had a long conversation with one of my pastors, Melinda Foster, of the UCC church in Owasso, Oklahoma. It was very enlightening. I go to several churches. I am a member of an Episcopal Church and two UCC churches in Owasso and Tulsa, OK.
I told her just how frustrated I was with the LGBT community and our ineffective protests. I told her I had suggested a Hunger Strike re: Rick Warren and the Inauguration. By the way, my pastor Melinda Foster (and her husband Toney), have been staunch advocates of human rights, including those of the LGBT community and she did the invocation for the March Against Proposition 8. She is firmly in our camp, and I knew I could confide in her with what I was feeling and pick her brain on the issue. She was the campaign manager of an openly lesbian Democratic nominee for congress, Sue Barton, and I was a researcher on that campaign. We spent lots of time together driving to tiny towns in Western Oklahoma promoting her campaign.
She told me the only thing she wanted me to consider is what kind of result I wanted. She agreed Rick Warren was a horrible choice, but she thought the hunger strike should be saved for something bigger like some kind of LGBT equal rights legislation or policy Obama would be threatening to veto or not sign. She also said she totally understands why I felt like we needed to go bigger, or do something more effective than the marches and "day without a gay."
So, I'm going to hold the whole organization of a "Hunger Strike" for something more important, but I am not going to sit back if the LGBT community gets thrown under the bus with any kind of policy Obama has the chance to change. She is in agreement a Hunger Strike, if done the proper way could be effective.
I want to explain to you, as well, I am not going to consider organizing a "Hunger Strike" unless:
A. I get a group who would do it with me. This is not about making me famous. I do not need or want to become "famous" for this type or kind of non-violent resistance. This is about giving hope to those young gays and lesbians growing up in places like Red State Oklahoma and / or Utah.
B. The press would be notified well in advance.
C. I, and others, will not put their lives on the line for something unless we have a chance of getting a positive outcome.
D. The group would determine the equality issue would be important enough to put our lives on the line.
Right now, I'm just trying to think of ways to show others the LGBT means business. Melinda and I both agreed we've seen this play before, and we don't like what we see. We are also in agreement there is no compromising with the religious right. They will take what we give them, but will not compromise on meeting us in the middle.
She suggested we keep up our letter writing campaigns, and to continue to express our outrage and to even let them know the depth of our anger even has us considering hunger strikes. Obama needs to know just how much our equal rights mean to us. I told her, "Its a matter of life and death because when it comes to those young gays and lesbians growing up without hope, it is." It is just that... a matter of life and death.
http://www.pinkpanthersblog.com/
When DADT and DOMA are repealed, and I have full legal equality in my state and nation.
Than I will claim a terrible ennui with the whole gay rights thing.
We need you out there on the cable shows. Rachel Maddow is great but Gavin Newsom was off-point and serving his own political interests. Aside from Maddow and Olberman, so far the only reporter that somewhat gets it that I have seen is Andrea Mitchell, but she needs a spokesperson like you who can keep things on point. I wish Jon Stewart was not on break, he is someone that I would say has been a "fierce advocate for glbt rights."
btw--I never really saw the point of Warren's book "The Purpose-Driven Life". Didn't read it. Also didn't get anything by Joel Olsteen. Maybe it's because I don't go for the religious motivational stuff to begin with.
Anyone...
I don't recognize the Jesus Christ most Talibangelicals, like Rick Warren, always talk about. The one I believe in is the Jesus Christ who was a political rabble rouser, and socialist who got hung on a cross because he wouldn't suck up to the powerful religious and political leaders of his day.
You can hide being gay but even a child can't hide being black. so stop repeating that ridiculous mantra.
We gays are the new "Gays".
Start taking your meds, my friend.
Sorry but I have.
What are the numbers on the number of Blacks that passed for white? 1 in 10? 1 in 100,000? or 500,000? You have no idea as to what you're talking about.
No matter how you slice it or dice it, it's a false equivalency to compare the impact of race discrimination against Blacks to gender discrimination. You have no idea as to what you're talking about.
Can people be fired simply because they are perceived to be gay or lesbian? Answer: Yes they can. It is LEGAL in many states to do this, so don't tell me they pay a heavier price. Black people have legal recourse. LGBT do not.
May be illegal, but it only counts if that law is enforced. I assure you that many Blacks are still fired abused and discriminated against on the job. It is also illegal to gun down people for walking while black, but the LAPD has gotten away with one a week in the last month or so not to mention the many, many previous incidents or the fact that Hispanics experience only slightly less brutality from the LAPD, or other police departments. Truth is both racial minorities and gays are both savagely discriminated against despite laws, rules, company manuals, court orders, etc. to the contrary.
Rather than fight over who suffers the most under discrimination, let's all hold hands, and fight discrimination whereever it rears it's poisonous head. Blacks, Hispanics and other minorities keep telling themselves I'm glad I'm not gay, and gays keep saying they are better than Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, etc. We are all one, all brothers and sisters and the them who are our true enemies are the bigots.
I am not saying gays are better than any other minority. I'm just agreeing with those who realize we have FAR LESS civil rights than any other minority. Its quantifiable. To say we have the same rights is just ludicrous. Oh yeah... can we serve openly in the military? Can the rest of American minorities? Just one more quantifiable example...
Nope. . .nothin' like bein' black at all.
We should be joining together and not creating divisions.
Who would want to spend eternity with that jack*ss
I very seriously doubt you need to worry about spending eternity associating with Rick Warren unless you are headed for the other place. <g>
Gays
Lesbians
Pro-Choice Women
Transgendered
Bisexual
Jews
Muslims
Non-believers
Buddhists
Sikhs
Well, 46% of America would be happy with Obama and Warren. Maybe the mainstream media is right: Obama is really a moderate Republican after all.
Obama, I hope will get civil partners rights which could be written in a way better than traditional marriage. Please liberals don't be like the Repugs and jump at the first opportunity to hate. It's just an invocation and a Trojan Horse to get cooperation from the 3rd grade mentality wingnuts.
Barry has been in love with this man for years. He even writes about him in his book . How could we have been so stupid to fall for his lies?!?! This is worse than what the Republicans have done to us, because at least they are honest about hating us. Obama hates LGBT people, (thinking one is less than human is nothing less than hatred) but he loves our votes, our volunteer hours and energy, and most of all he loves our money. I suggest anyone getting hit up for cash from Downlowbama should tell him exactly what you think. No Mo Money Barry!!!
We have been duped and screwed by Obama. I hope the Obama cultists will finally wake up from the Kool-Aid buzz!
Seems to me that the president-elect (who has Rev. Lowery doing the closing benediction) is the one who is being inclusive.
Even though I'm not religious, it would have been nice if he'd asked Rev. Welton Gaddy instead. But Rev. Gaddy, is a separation of church & state sort of a guy.
If Obama is being inclusive, where is the racist and anti-semite included in the inauguration festivities. They aren't included becuase eveyone KNOWS those are wrong.
The problem here is that Obama is willing to accept anti-gay religious dogma as a valid point of view to be discussed. What he needs to do is to stand up and say that it isn't valid. Just like racism wasn't a valid point of view even though it was justified by religious dogma. And bans on inter-racial marriage were not valid points of view even though they were justified using religious beliefs.
Look back in history and find all the examples of the religous beliefs that were used against the "other" people in society. One by one those religious beliefs have been tossed out. The anti-gay bigotry will be tossed out as well. Why should it take as long this time to get rid of it? We have a long history to look back on and realize that religious bigotry is always proved to be wrong headed. Why do we have to keep fighting the same fight with religious supporters. Likely because they still believe in their hearts that the racism was right and the bans on inter-racial marriage were right but they have finally learned to stop voicing those views in public. They know they can still get away with anti-gay speak without taking a hit for it.
The fact is that intolerance is still very much woven into the preachings of some of the evangelicals. It is wrong, and it dies hard, because some of that intolerance is cherished deep in the heart of many people who might be otherwise decent, who pass it along to their children, along with the rest of their values, and it is reinforced by pastors like Warren.
Preaching intolerance from the pulpit is abuse. You're right about the religious leaders getting away with too much. And you're right about those who have learned not to voice their views openly in public. There were/are still people who don't openly express their racism in public for a long time, until they found the opportunity at rallies for McCain/Palin this past election season.
It is still necessary to call it out.
I'm still disappointed that Obama wants Warren to do the invocation, even if I think he was trying to demonstrate a spirit of inclusion. I still am mystified by the choice, and still wonder if it was seen as a way of distancing himself from association with Rev. Wright.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol
We are a nation of laws and just because some of those laws happen to coincide with some religious positions on som eissues doesn't mean those laws were based on those religious rules.
Christians who constantly CLAIM that our constitution, bill of rights and laws are based on Christian values are misinformed and should be reminded of that at every opportunity.
Just because we have laws against murder and the Bible also says thou shall not kill, doesn't mean one was derived from the other.
If marriage laws were based on Christian dogma, the state couldn't issue a marriage license to a divorced Catholic or an atheist. But, those licenses are issued every day.
But he has no power over me. I'd never believe anything so fucking foolish as an "afterlife" anyway. I have one life, like everyone else, nothing else, and I've lived it according to my own standards, not those who believe they have the right to dictate the way I live with their myths and superstitions.
BLECH!
and to think that a majority of our population expects our elected reps to believe such rubbish or else they are unelectable....
If I had a friend named Bob and he was imaginary but he talked to me and kept me safe if I prayed to him, people would call me disturbed or mentally ill, but change that imaginary being to a person named God and all of a sudden I become the most trustworthy person and someone other believers can trust... Bob bless America....
If I were going to be forced to express faith in something, I'd choose Santa Claus... I don't think anybody has ever been killed in the name of Santa Claus... or said that Santa told them to do this or that heinous crime...
love is all there is.
If there is a God, we cannot know it. If there is a creator, then who created him? Has infinity passed already? Why are we here? Better to worry about whether the fish are biting - we are humans, and if there is a God, he didn't give us the brainpower to look past the big bang. Maybe we'll meet 'em someday in the future - but that'll have to wait.
Religion was a brokered power move to control the masses for the benefit of the selfish rat bastard elite.
If not, why? I have so you absolutely have no excuse not to unless it's because you find Obama an easyr target.
There are more GLBT citizens in California alone than there are in 10 Rick Warren mega-churches and we have the power to force him to gracefully bow out. You may not realize this but Rev. Warren not close to being the biggest church in Cali, Rick Warren is far from being a power broker and chosing him for a national public just might be the beginning of the end for him. Public scrutiny can be a killer.
What about it?
It's time to stop acting like spoiled high-school girls angry because the hot jock didn't give you tongue when he kissed you and MOVE ON.
Sexist analogy? Hey, if the skirt fits, wear it, Muffin.
The sponsors of Proposition 8 asked the California Supreme Court on Friday to nullify the marriages of the estimated 18,000 same-sex couples who exchanged vows before voters approved the ballot initiative that outlawed gay unions.
The Yes on 8 campaign filed a brief arguing that because the new law holds that only marriages between a man and a woman are recognized or valid in California, the state can no longer recognize the existing same-sex unions.
"Proposition 8's brevity is matched by its clarity. There are no conditional clauses, exceptions, exemptions or exclusions," reads the brief co-written by Pepperdine University law school dean Kenneth Starr, the former independent counsel who investigated President Bill Clinton.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/...
The Yes on 8 people said that they didn't want to do this. They also said they didn't want to create a law to remove all domestic partner benefits. Why should we believe anything that they say?
Printer Friendly Format Sponsored By
December 19, 2008
In a First, Gay Rights Are Pressed at the U.N.
By NEIL MACFARQUHAR
UNITED NATIONS — An unprecedented declaration seeking to decriminalize homosexuality won the support of 66 countries in the United Nations General Assembly on Thursday, but opponents criticized it as an attempt to legitimize pedophilia and other “deplorable acts.”
The United States refused to support the nonbinding measure, as did Russia, China, the Roman Catholic Church and members of the Organization of the Islamic Conference. The Holy See’s observer mission issued a statement saying that the declaration “challenges existing human rights norms.”
because if they did they would have to say bad things about that Freedom Loving Iraq where gays and lesbians are being killed for being part of the LGBT community!
Maybe you were not pissed off enough during
8 years of Bush...but now that you are Really..really
..pissed off...
What creative...non-violent..political theater...on 1/20 ..in either your town or DC..can you come up with?
Ya gotta make it public....
I do believe an outpouring of creative expression will send a message.
You can either dream your dream...
or work yer dream..
I just wrote to them and told them that Homophobia is NEVER acceptable, and that 1 week ago I had high hopes in Obama, but now I cannot stand to look at his face. I don't like cowards, I never had. Anyway, drop 'em a line and let 'em know how you feel.
• As he's said again and again, the President-elect is committed to bringing together all sides of the faith discussion in search of common ground. That's the only way we'll be able to unite this country with the resolve and common purpose necessary to solve the challenges we face.
Nailed That One.
Jack-hammered that one.
My giant invisible friend
He knows all about you
He knows everything that you do
My giant invisible friend
Three thousand years of monotheism. Not a shred of rational evidence.
http://change.gov/page/content/contact/
"Re: Rick Warren and LGBT community
I just want to say I am extremely disappointed by the choice of someone who says that I can not be a member of his church unless I repent of my sexual orientation.
I am MORE than disappointed. In fact, I even deliberated with my UCC pastor on organizing a HUNGER STRIKE in Tulsa, Oklahoma to get President Elect Obama to reconsider his choice. I am a member of three separate churches - St. Andrews Episcopal, and two United Church of Christ churches in Tulsa and Owasso, Oklahoma.
My pastor suggested contacting your transition team and letting you know the depth of our community's anger. She said you need to know we have even considered such a dire non-violent protest as a "Hunger Strike" but she did have me reconsider. She said the Hunger Strike should be saved for any kind of back tracking on important LGBT issues the Obama Administration decides they will not implement.
I had an extremely hard time growing up as a gay American in Oklahoma in the 1970-1980's. I am not willing to watch the next generation experience the same unfair, unjust and totally unacceptable treatment I experienced. I want to give the next generation hope, and at 43 years of age, I AM WILLING to join a group of people to lay down my life for the next generation of LGBT Americans. It is time for us to receive the same rights the rest of America enjoys. This is not a question of "social issues," either. It is CIVIL RIGHTS and we shouldn't even have to ASK for those rights.
I hope it doesn't take a group of LGBT actually having to organize a Hunger Strike in order to realize our Civil Rights, but this is one gay man WHO WILL DO IT, and I will follow the tenets of Ghandi / Martin Luther King and continue to use non-violent techniques to see that the next generation has HOPE. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that. Trust me, I like to eat just as much as the next man, but I will not hesitate to follow through with dire non-violent action if it becomes necessary.
I worked tirelessly for the Obama campaign in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I am also the Vice Chair of the Democratic Party in Delaware County, OK and an Executive Board member for Oklahoma Congressional District 2 of the Oklahoma Democratic Party Veterans Committee. I am plugged in politically, and I WILL be watching to ensure the promises of equality and civil rights for my LGBT community are fulfilled.
Thank you.
-Timothy Beauchamp"
That being said, most Christians do agree on one thing: that Christ is the only way to heaven. It's kind of in the title of the religion. Jesus said in scripture that, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me." In other words, yes, most of us believe that those who don't accept Christ go to hell. Don't be pissed at Christians for that. Be pissed at Jesus.
*********
And this is the smarmy "born again'er" shit that's thankfully destroying the kooky "christians" in name only.
As a non-religious person, I don't appreciate being told I'm going to hell. Stop forcing your lifestyle and nutball fairy tales on people who aren't religious.
I find the belief in invisible cloud people and all of their attendant pettyness (I created you and gave you free will, but if you don't worship me I'll stamp my little feet!) something I can do without in my life. I don't take this kind of passive-aggressive crap from my friends, and I expect my gods to act more maturely than the average three-year old.