Tensor, what's equally interesting is this picture only shows three of her four children. Where is the other child? locked in a closet? What family has professional family photos with one child missing?
2008
· 1 year ago
wow, Palin does NoT appear preggers, but that teen girl of hers---yes, that's a bloated uterus!!! And on young girls, pregnancy doesn't show as much, so this would be realistic... But why wouldn't she cover up with a big fluffy sweater? I'm sure there's not much to do in Wasilla, other than screw around! As for Palin's fertility, she's obviously quite able, BUT at age 44 when she's devoted to her ambitions? Odd.
Donna in Rome
· 1 year ago
My answer would be "neither". My monitor shows pics a lot darker than they're intended to be, so I copied it and lightened it up. The daughter's tummy does look a bit swollen, but I've been noticing a lot of teenaged girls with rounded tummies lately, almost as if it's in style.
If anything, it would seem to be at most a 5-month tummy, not 7+... but then, everyone is different. But if she had been pregnant, I don't think they would have had her pose in that position, from that angle, and with that top on, especially it they were trying to hide it.
Sarah definitely doesn't look pregnant either, although she's the one wearing the straight-hanging, fluffy fleece vest.
jensen
· 1 year ago
I don't really care that much about the child out of wedlock but who calls their child "Track"? I wonder if that is where the child was conceived, i.e. on a running track.
I can read men pretty well but I'm not so good with women, but I've seen a half dozen interveiws of this woman and I get the feeling she is a pathological liar. Certainly six or seven sound bites isn't much of a vetting process but I'm pretty convinced there is much less there than meets the eye. With all the qualified Republican candidates who would be good Vice Presidents, we could have seen much better. What a mind-numbing choice.
Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas
· 1 year ago
I am having a cop buddy run her vids through his special software that can tell you if someone is telling the truth. The shit is real reliable. Better than any polygraph.
jensen
· 1 year ago
I'd be interested in hearing what the response is.
Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas
· 1 year ago
I will be posting them on here when he runs them
iowaliberal
· 1 year ago
She got knocked up and then got married. Fundies consider this the honorable course for youths who give in to "temptations of the flesh" or such. Outing her as a woman who got married after getting pregnant is not going to make her look bad to anybody.
She's opposed to the right to choose an abortion even in cases of rape or incest. That, and her global warming denial, should be the lines of attack.
Not to mention her support for Buchanan!
MElouise
· 1 year ago
KNOCKED UP???
Do you even HEAR yourself???
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
You know there are some issues here that I think we all need to address and they are difficult. When we (I include myself here) are so angry at what happened in the Primary's and we discuss the opposing side, it is far too easy to use denigrating language that does little to further the discussion, but may make us feel better in the short run.
Case in point, the term "knocked up" has creepy connotations and is disrespectful to women IMHO. Yes, the right is ripe with HYPOCRISY and their take on women's rights is abysmal, but we should not do what we accuse the other side of doing.
Even though it may be a bit touchy at first, I do think we need to think about our language when discussing this stuff. In our passion for honesty, we don't want to insult the very people (women) who are with us in the fight.
Catsandbeer.com
· 1 year ago
It's lame that we feel we have to fight back against asshole republicans who care about what goes on in our bedrooms by trying to expose what goes on in theirs
I know, I know - hypocrisy and all that - I just think that all this sex nonsense shouldn't have anything to do with our politics and so, hypocrisy or not, wish we didn't perpetuate the practice
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
I'm sorry, but it's relevant. Unfortunately, people like McCain, Palin and Dobson have decided that we need the government to legislate in this area. We can't shy away from these issues - issues the right is already debating publicly and legislating against - just because they make us queasy. There is no "practice" that we are perpetuating. James Dobson publicly and famous made the issue of out of wedlock conception relevant 18 months ago. Sarah Palin was chosen to woo James Dobson. Sarah Palin is a social conservative who is on the wrong side of all of these issues. Her own adherence to her public posture on these issues is unfortunately relevant.,
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
I agree with you John, but I also think that care needs to be taken when discussing any of this stuff. Especially after this awful and devastating Primary season with all of the charges on BOTH sides being offered up.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
Of course care needs to be taken. That's why i wrote the post in a very polite, respectful, and detailed manner in order to explain why, unfortunately, James Dobson, John McCain and Sarah Polin have made this issue relevant.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
I'm not making accusations about YOU John, I am trying to make the point that WE ALL need to think about how we express ourselves on this stuff. The temptation is there to be disrespectful at times and I too have expressed myself sometimes in a regretful manner.
However I am suggesting that maybe you should reconsider further threads about her first born's legitimacy. That is concerning stuff (such as timing of birth: prematurity) of which we are unaware. However her last birth IS questionable and warranting investigation considering her FAR right wing reach.
Just saying that we don't want to alienate those who agree with us in premise but might take offense to terminology (especially). Case in point was someone in this thread used the term "knocked up" and that term is disrespectful to women.
HereinDC
· 1 year ago
Don't be mad at me John.. I use to listen to Dr. Laura....and the one thing I remember was that she was VERY VERY against women going back to work after having a baby. When Palin had her last baby....she went back to work as Mayor the next day......yes...the next day So, I can just imagine what Dr. Laura MUST me thinking now of Palin being a Gov with a 4 month old.....but NOW...running for VP.
Just a thought of the ramifications of what the GOP is against.
KarenMrsLloydRichards
· 1 year ago
Female GOP professional politicians going back to work immediately after pregnancy: good. All other women, especially Democrats: very, very bad. I'm surprised you haven't internalized the GOP propaganda, which has been catapulted for almost 30 years. You are a holdout...
Coming Undone
· 1 year ago
At 7 mos pregnant no one around Palin could tell she was pregnant, they were totally surprised when she announced she was pregnant., and she had the baby a special needs child, with Downs Syndrome but according to what I have read she was back to work within a few days.
Palin also said that her son is being deployed on Sept 11th, so does she believe the lie about the connection between 9-11 and Iraq.
So is Palin Harriet or Brownie? Heck-of-a -job Palin
Upland_Oddball
· 1 year ago
I just heard on my Air America affiliate all the proof needed that in the Palin household, getting knocked up out of wedlock is nothing compared to the heinous sin of using contraception. It now seems that Gov. Palin's 17 year old unmarried daughter, Bristol, is pregnant. Maybe she'll bear another Downs baby and earn more Kudos form the Right to Life crowd. God forbid that she would get tested for birth defects and the like now that she is with child.
BLOGGING BITCH!
· 1 year ago
I think we have to leave this story alone because McCain is a former POW.
MElouise
· 1 year ago
Has the world gone crazy? Joe- John- there is PLENTY of fodder here to attack Sarah Palin and John McCain on, w/o having to resort to THIS sort of thing!!
PLEASE- attack on issues, not on sexism.
An_American_Karol
· 1 year ago
I don't find this sexist at all. If Palin were a man, this would still be pertinent to the values crowd. No one claimed reverse sexism when Larry Craig was visiting strangers in the men's room at the airport. It was the hypocrisy.
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
If Palin were a man, she would have had a affair by now- 'family values' or not, lied about it, confessed to it, stood up in public with her mortified wife, and then been allowed back onto the public payroll. If Clinton can be impeached for a consusual, gods-damned, blow-job, Palin can be thrown off the ticket for covering up the maternity of her children. It speaks to her lying and hypocrisy.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
I'm sorry, but with all due respect, please explain to me how this post is sexist? Dont' throw incendiary charges like that around without offering up even one scintilla of an argument as to why you make such an outrageous charge. I wrote an entire article explaining why the issue is relevant - because the GOP has made it relevant - please don't throw such accusations around with the courtesy of an equally well-thought-out reply.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
I kind of agree with you on this, however I do think her youngest's birth is "odd" and perhaps worthy of some research. But as far as challenging Palin goes, I think this woman has SO MANY issues that need to be challenged and that need discussion, so that addressing this end of the questions is a bit salacious.
KISSman
· 1 year ago
Sexism?? Where is there sexism in this? I mean, holy crap, it's like the Hillary Clinton stuff all over again.
If you attack female candidates the same way you would attack a male candidate, it's seen as sexism because she's a woman being criticized by a man. I am positive that this same issue would be brought up if McCain's VP choice were a male religious kook. This issue is about hypocricy and there is nothing sexist about it.
The fact is that some women are sensitive to the idea of men criticizing women even when the content itself is not sexist in the least. Just because some perceive these critiques to be sexist doesn't mean that they are.
An_American_Karol
· 1 year ago
John, when someone runs on the "values" ticket, it seems fair game to point out those values. Good thread.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
My goodness, it's Karol! How the heck are you? Long time.
erykah
· 1 year ago
I am apalled that this line of inquiry is being explored. This reeks of desperation on our part. I am offended. Let this go. Just like Cinton's remarks pushed blacks into the Obama camp, this line of attach is sure to push women into the McCain camp. Non -issue. Conservative women, at least thinks ones will question why she is seeking the vp slot when her child with diesabilities no less is only 5 months ole. Please drop this and move on.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
Please explain why it's not relevant when James Dobson himself says it's relevant? I don't care whether or not her child was conceived out of wedlock. James Dobson does. And he is the man being wooed with the selection of Palin. The republicans legislate on these issues every day, and we refuse to discuss them because they make us queasy. That is why we lose. James Dobson cares about this birth, about your births, but we aren't permitted to ask why such hypocrisy, if true, is tolerated by the GOP? Again, that is why we lose.
DastiusKrazitauc
· 1 year ago
Speaking of hypocrisy, how has Dobson and his ilk reconciled voting for known adulterers for President and First Lady? The way they have talked themselves into ignoring the way McCain dumped his first wife and kids might be an indication of the double-talk they'll come up with to ignore Palin's sins.
BLOGGING BITCH!
· 1 year ago
Well, in all fairness Republicans don't really believe that you have to leave the Party or suffer scorn when they get caught exchanging body fluid in restrooms with those of the same sex.
Hell, they let Mark Foley fuck the children. That wasn't even an ethics violation....was it, Doc Hastings?
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
John
I can see why you are not comfortable. Her child was not born out of wedlock. Dobson and his ilk may frown on conception out of wedlock but they go ballistic if "born out of wedlock". I don't think this issue should be an issue. If you were going to go after an issue, I would rather see you hit on the irresponsible behavior of Palin to board Alaska Airlines in Texas, while in active labor, to give birth in Alaska. The birth of the fifth child remains abounds with rumors BUT it is no rumor about her flying to Alaska from Texas. It is no rumor that she had tests done prior to delivery that probably showed this fifth child to have Downs Syndrome.
Now why would any mother risk the life of her child or herself to fly from Texas to Alaska (about 4,000 miles)? She could have had her baby in Texas without risk but she did not do that. It was, in my opinion, a terrible decision on her part. It goes deeper in than if Palin is willing to risk her life or the child's life what would she risk if she became president?
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
She actually claimed to be in labor and flew immediately to Alaska?
My, the story of her fifth child is so delicious I could eat it with a spoon.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
LOL, even the part of her water breaking???
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
I think my response gotten eaten or something. According to this article she did indeed fly home via commercial airlines while in labor.
Hi there Aquarius! I have read the same posts...is someone actually questioning her returning to Alaska to deliver?
You know the part(s) of this thing that are most questionable are the issue of how she never told anyone (even at 7 months), the fact that NO one thought she even looked a bit chubby, the thought that her daughter of 16 at the time was suddenly home from school for mono and that Sarah acted so amazingly strong in having her baby and going to work the next day. In the world in which I live, that is RIDICULOUS!
Her youngest infants birth IS an issue for investigation I think, especially in lieu of her staunch religious right preaching and ideology.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
That is simply not true. I grew up in America for 44 years now, someone gets pregnant and then gets married - that's the way it usually works. Not having the baby and then getting married, but getting pregnant and then getting married. I'm sorry, but it's the getting the pregnant part that is absolutely relevant to Dobson. Sex before marriage? Child conceived - remember, in their world, the child is alive and a child at conception - to unmarried parents. I think you're using our values, and not theirs, to look at this situation.
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
Uh, I am slightly lost in your response but I think I get that getting pregnant and then getting married is still a big NO with Dobson?
tofubo
· 1 year ago
john, i give you almost every benefit of every doubt, but three weeks in a nine month event, margin of error and all that,, if he was born 3 weeks before they got married, you would have a point,, full disclosure, i was conceived during the summer of love, '67, you do the math
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
Margin of error? What margin of error is there on the birth of human babies? He was born at least 3 weeks early, if not more. At best, it was a major coincidence that he was conceived on the night of their elopement - yes, they eloped. I'm sorry, but again, James Dobson already made this issue relevant. John McCain and Sarah Palin think this issue is relevant in your life. Yet you refuse to ask them the simple question as to whether they practice what you preach. I'm sorry, but this is why we lose. We can't even ask them whether they practice the lifestyle that they legislate for us with impunity,
Upland_Oddball
· 1 year ago
My God, I know this family. Even Todd, her husband, seems familiar. They seem about one good paycheck away from being a Meth famly. I wonder if their huse is a mess, their dogs deficate whereever they please and no one picks it up, and the yard has trash blowing around and three abandoned cars up on blocks in the back yard?
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
I kind of feel like you're (Joe & John) trying to pull some things out of the hat on this one. Yes, it's tempting, but why not look into the issue of her youngest's birth, that is the one that is most suspicious.
Sarah never told anyone she was pregnant (at 7 months no less), no one said she even looked a bit portly and then voila, her water broke (turn your head ole men with weak tummies) and then she finished her meeting, ran off to deliver the tyke and then magically went to work the very next day. All of this is suspicious in story line, timing and human behavior. Her oldest daughter at the time, was 16 and was home from school for mono for a number of months.
Now, all of this is salacious stuff, could it be true or if it is true is all up for investigation and discussion I suspect. But I really feel kind of creepy when you challenge her first son's birth as you have here, but my feeling creepy needn't stop investigation nor discussion...just sayin'...
AdmNaismith
· 1 year ago
That explains a lot. I was wondering if their children were home-schooled or something. A pregnant teen is hard to hide if they go out in public at all.
People should be help up to the same standards they put on other people. If someone like Palin is comfortable passing judgment on complete strangers 'in toto', she should be honored to be told how well she is upholding her very own standards.
If she is allowed to tel me what to do in my private life, I am allowed to tell her what to do. It totally works both ways.
gsthomas606
· 1 year ago
Does anyone know when she converted to her Evangelical Christian believes?
BLOGGING BITCH!
· 1 year ago
Better yet, did she tell her son that Iraq had something to do with 9/11?
What's the correlation, Mrs. Palin?
Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas
· 1 year ago
Well I am not shy to discuss it...she got preggers BEFORE marriage. Fine with me. She doesn't even need to be married as far as I am concerned. HOWEVER if this woman is going to spout bullshit based on Leviticus and crap from a Bible base of thinking, then we shall discuss her HYPOCRACY. Who cares when his sperm hit her egg?
This is just a fucking insane weekend even discussing this unimportant woman. She should only stay up there and run the Alaskan PTA
TonyTyner
· 1 year ago
My first feeling was this comes across as petty. I'm sure she has bigger fish to fry
PlusDistance
· 1 year ago
John, not only is this line of attack the political equivalent of a jar of nitroglycerin -- more likely to blow up the handlers than their enemies -- it also won't matter to the right-wing religious base. They'll say that she made a mistake, but had the character to carry the baby through to term -- and her husband had the decency to marry her and stay with her. It'll be an EXAMPLE for them, not an emberassment.
Ditto having the kid in her 40's, despite the risk. Full quiver and all that.
These people are the MASTERS of cognitive dissonance. There's plenty of ideological fodder to attack her with. That is, if it isn't better just to go over her head and attack McCain.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
The religious right does not respond to out of wedlock conception with a sign. I'm sorry, it's just not true. Thus the reason Dobson wrote about Cheney. Publicly they'll try to ignore this, but privately it matter to them - thus the reason they legislate about it every day. I would like nothing better than the McCain campaign expressing their outrage that anyone in the year 2008 would dare discuss the issue of parents having sex, and getting pregnant, before they're married. It would be a wonderful step forward for sexual freedoms in America
KarenMrsLloydRichards
· 1 year ago
Doing the nasty + insemination + unmarried + married enceinte + cleansing forgiveness by Jesus = Republican family values. Doing the nasty + insemination + unmarried = filthy, Godless, Democrat values. It's the GOP Double Standard, which must be accepted and not questioned.
ladypoetess
· 1 year ago
"It is exactly Dobson who Cheney is wooing with the choice of Palin."
I think you mean McCain here, not Cheney.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
corrected,thanks
DoctorJ
· 1 year ago
Don't apologize for bringing this up. If Palin is a right-winger then odds are very high that she's also a hypocrite. People that extreme are almost always frauds whose personal lives rarely resemble the bullshit they preach.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
Just read through the thread.
Man, I don't know. Seems like there's some weird stuff going on in this family.
Have to say, though, I'm a little queasy. Not because of the Fundies--I like throwing stuff in their faces--but because the Hillary people are really starting to get an attitude about this on the other blogs, and the last thing we need is another civil war 60 days from the election.
Guess I'll just keep quiet on the personal stuff and jump in on the threads that talk about her lack of professional experience and accomplishments and laughable reputation as a "reformer."
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
There have been a number of fake Hillary people coming to this blog coincidentally starting on Thursday or so of the convention, when Obama was speaking. I'm pretty convinced they're GOPers organized to disrupt. They did this a few months ago, and we caught them. They're not real Hillary supporters, or they'd not have been silent for 2 months until Obama gave his speech two nights ago.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
That's a bit of a relief.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
You're right on that, I have "met" a number of them in the last week.
MC_Haiku
· 1 year ago
Also, everywhere I looked, before the pregnant Bristol story broke, were comments "Sarah Palin has more executive experience than Obama and Biden combined." Every blog, every story, had those posts to that effect in the comment sections. I believe there is an army of paid GOP trolls out there getting their talking points on a daily basis. And I am sure they are formulating talking points for Bristol now, and other Palin-stories we haven't heard yet. I also think that McCain's not properly vetting this very strange person, Sarah Palin, is going to bite him on the ass bigtime.
Upland_Oddball
· 1 year ago
To the women and feminists in this room who think that pursuing this inquiry is sexist or counterproductive. Let's get real.
This is about a woman's right to not only choose whether to reproduce, but her absolute right to get facual, unbiased information on all matters of sexuality, reproduction and contraception wheever she begins to consider acting on her own sexuality. Add to this the right to know solid science and real medicine when she puts herself at risk of an STD or worse yet, HIV/AIDS.
Sarah Palin is the poster child of the movement that would deny our sisters, daughters and friends these rights. Hell, her life seems to be an illustration of what can go wrong when one clings to willful ignorance and fundamentalist syllopism. She seems more and more like a trashy sitcom from the WB or FOX. To remain silent about these issues is to encourage more of the same, and that is killing and harming untold numbers among us.
If she was a private person, I say, let her be. But she is on the verge of being nominated V.P., one election away from being V.P. and one fatal illness away from possibly being President.
HereinDC
· 1 year ago
We're talking about the future of the United States of America with this election.....
and we can't discuss this topic of sex in 2008?
PLEASE.......
This woman is sly like a fox.....
kravitz
· 1 year ago
do not attack the out of wedlock bristol. the evangelicals are into the idea that you make a mistake and come to god to fix it, spiritually, etc. do not get into how or where bristol was conceived...but the story of the baby does need and invites further research.
Chris From Maine
· 1 year ago
It seems like there are lots of possible skeletons in Palin's closet.
And McCain never really met her until yesterday.. amazing how desperate the Republicans are.
FunMe
· 1 year ago
"Again, Joe and I aren't very comfortable discussing these kind of issues because, honestly"
Obama and we are going to have megaFUN on the way to a Democratic Presidential victory!
jescot
· 1 year ago
These are loser issues for for us John and Joe - keep focused on the BIG issues of the day...WE WIN ON THE BIG ISSUES> Please don't get sucked into talking or debating wedge issues for our party's sake and for the country's sake.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
I'm sorry, but I don't see how issues of critical importance to social conservatives are not relevant to this election. They're not relevant to us, that's correct. But they are relevant to them, and they legislate this aspect of our lives every single day that they are in office. Don't confuse the fact that we don't pass judgment on these issues with ignoring these issues when the Republicans use them to pass judgment on us. The only way to stop the Republicans form legislating in our bedroom is to politely ask them to be consistent in their own lives,
jescot
· 1 year ago
I think a more relevant issue to go after her if any is same sex marriage.There's lots of traction to be made by saying she wont support civil unions or hospitals visits for GLBTpartners. Fair minded americans square in the middle agree on that ...anything less seems unfair. I think a real focus on her should be her image of a reformer and a person of ethics and integrity when on first glance she seems to be just more of the same and seems to learned well from her republican masters.
On another note I heard on CNN today someone being interviewed in the RNC ( I was in the car ) who said "why should we care who he picks for his VP - the VP is traditionally a ceremonial position"
I yelled at the top of my lungs at the car radio ...'Where the F-uck were you for the past 7 years !"
Coming Undone
· 1 year ago
Is her 17 yr. old really pregnant, and if so what happened to the Religious Right and the "Pledge"?
Upland_Oddball
· 1 year ago
not confirmed. the info was from a caller, which means it could come from anywhere, including the McCain disinformation war room. Need to confirm.
Coming Undone
· 1 year ago
Thanks, I did see a picture when Palin was supposed to e 7 mos pregnant, but the daughter looked pregnant.
heathwood
· 1 year ago
My theory as to why McCain chose Palin is very simple; No other republican wanted the job. The GOP is not very friendly to their candidates who lose elections. When is the last we heard of Jack Kemp or Dan Quayle?
Bostonian_Queer_in_Dallas
· 1 year ago
My brother in law is a big wig in the GOP in Mass. He said the other day that McSame is the Bob Dole sacrificial lamb and has been since the primaries. They've known since early on that the Dem, whether Hillary or Barack, would take this one because their love child Dubbya has fucked them for a generation. They really were hoping that Rudy was going to take the primaries because he is good on the stump and could have done well against the Dem, either one. They are just holding their nose and staying home till 2012.
Donna in Rome
· 1 year ago
Even if it should turn out to be true, they'd be able to spin it to their advantage.
1) Yes, she made a mistake and had sex before marriage, but accepted responsibility, got married, and had the baby (i.e. didn't abort). And she was discreet and decent enough not to want a regular church wedding or, since she had sinned, a white wedding gown (which would have been in bad taste).
2) She found Jesus, saw the light, repented for her sin, and was forgiven. Now she wants to help all young girls recognize the sinfulness and risks inherent in premarital sex and the virtues of chastity. In other words, abstinance for all.
3) Her marriage is so successful, solid, and loving that she and her husband went on to have 4 more beautiful children. And she doesn't even use birth control so she even had a late pregnancy, but lovingly accepted the result.
So John, it might not do any good to focus on this aspect.
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
true... you can always be "born-again" and they'll absolve you of all your past indescretions.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
That's how a dunken whore-monger like Tom DeLay can pretend to be doing God's work to gullible oafs like Chris Matthews.
Upland_Oddball
· 1 year ago
Donna:
The very people who would likely respond to your three points, are almost exactly the same pepple who would never vote for Obama/Biden in 2008. No way, no how. Questioning Palin's judgement, personal life choices, and overt cases of hypocrisy is a tactic in a strategy aimed at minimizing the GOP effort to make this woman out to be an attractive MOTHER COURAGE figure to the independent, less fanatical women and men out there. McCain's campaign is alreay softening the ground to argue that she is the best Eliza Dolittle out there for on-the-job training. Plucky, salt-of-the-earth, fearless and a quick study with a good heart. We need to reveal her to be more like Tonya Harding than Audry Hepburn.
Donna in Rome
· 1 year ago
I know. But my three points were intended to represent what THEIR answers would be to this story, and our criticism of her, if it turned out to be true. They'd make her out to be a saint who had made a mistake (as so many do) when she was young, but did everything in her power to atone for her sin, avoiding abortion and dedicating herself entirely to her ever-growing happy, loving Christian family and her community, complete with son shipping off to Iraq. And now she's willing to sacrifice herself for the good of her country by running for VP.
My question, whether or not her first son was conceived before she married, is how is she going to be able to give her 4-month-old special-needs baby all the nurturing and maternal care he needs while she's on the campaign trail, with all the energy, stress, study, and traveling it entails? This was not the time of her life to accept a position like this (apart from the fact that she should have had the integrity to recognize her limitations as far as her qualifications and experience are concerned; and McCain should have had the decency and delicacy not to even ask her).
Upland_Oddball
· 1 year ago
Your concern about her parental neglect of her almost newborn, special needs, child is spot-on, Donna_in_Rome. She reminds me of Phyllis Schafly, who criticized any number of feminists in her time for doing exactly what she was doing in her own life. And you will not be surprised that she was rarely criticized by most MSM pundits for such blatant hypocrisy. Pat and Bay Buchanan sure never mentioned it, while arguing that motherhood naturally and appropriately limits a woman's ability to assert herself in what is and always will be a man's world. That line of thinking is total bunk, but to also think that personal motherhood, as well as fatherhood, does not have its rightful claims on a parent's life is also bunk. Sarah Palin's baby should not limit her future career in political life. But giving it such scant attention and personal time at this crucial time, by joining in a presidential campaign that will be waged 24 hours/seven days a week, is fully disturbing.
All this sharply focuses my mind on Obama's central strength. His ambition is filtered through an amazing thoughtful and intelligent gift of good judgment. Unlike Bush or McCain, its not a matter of simply acting decisively and impulsively to the pronouncements of one's gut. What we call "gut" in their cases is too nebulous to depend upon. Obama's judgment seems far more solid, more reality-based. In contrast to what we are fearing about Palin and her newbie son, Obama seems to have worked out an effective arrangement with his own daughters through the help of his wife and her own village circle made up of Michelle's own mother, various aunties and others. And we can go on and on about what Joe Biden has done to be with his children when they needed him. Obama may lack a depth of experience, but, Gods and Goddesses willing, the American people will see that he gets it right when it counts.
Larry Hernandez (Upland Oddball) ----- Original Message ----- From: Disqus<mailto:> To: uplandgreen@msn.com<mailto:uplandgreen@msn.com> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 2:31 PM Subject: [americablog] Re: Sarah Palin and children conceived out of wedlock -an uncomfortable question needs to be posed
Something is not right. I read the post and followed some links and EVERY SINGLE LINK that would have had a picture of the pregnant governor is missing. Error message states PAGE NOT FOUND. Why is this?
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
BECAUSE they are busing pulling and scrubbing ALL evidence from sight! They know something may be amiss and they are trying to CONTROL the message.
THEY = McCain and his minions
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
add in the rumors that Trig might not be her child... and might be her 16 year old daughter's kid...
okay, ignore that rumor for a bit.
how does the religious right feel about a new mother staying away from her children when they need them? developmental years and all... her youngest has Downs Syndrome and will need all of her attention.
how does the religious right feel about that? will she institutionalize Trig? let her husband worry about bringing up the kids for the next four years?
how does that sit well with the religious right?
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
How do they feel about it? Simple, they won't address it...period.
Ignore it or denigrate those who question the entirety of it and put it to bed (until November of course).
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
No, what needs to be done is to highlight what happens to OTHER working mothers who have children with Down's syndrome. I bet you there are plenty that won't have the perks of office of Vice President, and cadre of federally paid assistants, to make it a LOT easier to care with a baby with Down's. For instance, I'm sure child care won't be a problem for her but someone struggling to make ends meet would have a VERY DIFFERENT kind of life than Mrs. Palin.
BLOGGING BITCH!
· 1 year ago
I think it's sad that she'd allow her son to enlist on 9/11....like Iraq had something to do with it.
Wonder why she wants him on the front lines?
hueylong
· 1 year ago
Her son didn't enlist on 9/11. He is being deployed on 9/11 of this year.
hueylong
· 1 year ago
This is REALLY tacky guys. You don't even know the kids birthday. You don;t know if he was born prematurely. Basically you really have no idea what the story is and really have nothing to go on. Plus even if true it may just make her look better because she made a mistake but did the 'right thing' by getting married. Honestly, this will just be used as a way of making you guys look bad and sleazy. If I were you I would yank this story or issue some sort of retraction/apology. I am an absolutely devoted Obama supporter by the way. There is plenty to go after with this pick. All this will do is create sympathy.
BLOGGING BITCH!
· 1 year ago
Republicans had the House and Senate for 12 years. They ever vote to end abortion?
Hypocrisy has done this to the GOP, not us.
I support Obama too, but I still think that Mark Foley should have been cited for sucking off the children. Don't you?
The religious right said nothing....AGAIN!
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
No offense, but your response is based on not having read what I wrote. We didn't know the exact day of his birthday, so we assumed it was the latest date possible in April, the month we knew he was born in. That gives his parents the largest benefit of the doubt. And know that we know the date, the 20th, the math is even more damning. As for yanking the story, you'd like me to yank mathematics? Or you'd like me to yank the fact that James Dobson publicly has a problem with children conceived out of wedlock? I'd just like to you clarify if you have a problem with conservatives legislating morality, or if you only have a problem with those of us who ask conservatives to pratice what they preach? I can see an apology being due, but it's not from me.
hueylong
· 1 year ago
I did not see the elopement part and I apologize for that. I just really think this is not going to accomplish anything constructive but make our side look like mud throwers. I could certainly be wrong though. And when I first replied the April 20th date had not been uncovered yet. I would have felt better about the initial article if you had known when the kid was actually born. Let's be honest here, Dobson etc. are not going to turn on her for this. No way no how. All it will do is make her a martyr in my opinion.
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
John Kerry's swiftboating was more tacky.
LunaStick
· 1 year ago
Sometimes babies are born early. It's called pre-mature birth. We need to know more of the circumstances before reaching any conclusions. Pre-mature birth occurs in 8-10% of all pregnancies from what I've found looking into it.
BLOGGING BITCH!
· 1 year ago
You're right. Sometimes when a man lays his daughter, it'll have Downs Syndrome.
LunaStick
· 1 year ago
That is a different circumstance all together.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
Oh come on now, you're really going someplace that isn't really warranted right now. That birth MAY be odd and need further investigation or research, but to make those kinds of allegations when there are MANY reasons why a child might have Down's, is downright lewd.
Yes, I know. I never questioned that nor her return to Alaska. I think the whole thing IS odd though, don't you?
I personally don't know of ANY other woman who ever had her water break, finish a meeting, fly back to another state, deliver her child and then go to work the next day. Sounds like super-unbelievable-woman to me.
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
Yes, it is beyond odd. The strange thing is why all pictures of what should be a pregnant governor would have been scrubbed from the web. I, for the hell of it, tried tracking down the birthdate of Track and any reference to his birthdate is also scrubbed.
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
maybe Trig is older than reported...
how about pictures of her daughter during sarah's 8th-9th month? oh, that's right, she had Mono so... not in public for photo-ops with the family.
BLOGGING BITCH!
· 1 year ago
Then why would a pregnant woman be around her?
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
The reason you can't find anything now is because they KNOW that many people are researching this thing...and THAT alone is suspicious! IF they kept the record current it would be far less odd, so I DO actually think we may be on to something here...
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
interesting... she was allowed to travel back to Alaska when she was full term and "leaking amniotic fluid"???
did she go on any roller-coasters, ride a mechanical bull... or maybe partake skydiving as well while in Texas?
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
yep, she went via Alaska Airlines. Bit odd, dontcha think?
Kansaskitty
· 1 year ago
I don't buy it. It may have been 40 years ago since my children were born, but I'm quite sure I would not have been enough of an ignoramus to give a speech after my water broke, then go to the airport, board a commercial flight and fly from Texas to Alaska. And she only SPOKE to a doctor to get an okey-dokey to do this, and was not examined before this fool-hardy behavior? That doctor shouldn't be practicing medicine.
MommaKat
· 1 year ago
You're point is dead on!. Once the amnio sac ruptures - even if it's just a leak the risk for infection is huge and delivery cannot be delayed. But more concerning is that her water broke no later than the very begining of her 8th months of pregnancy which means she was looking at imminent birth of a premature baby with Down's syndrome. Down's infants can and often do have serious medical conditions that requrie intervention - even surgery - at the time of birth. This was her 5th pregnancy, and labor and delivery tend to go more quickly with each successive pregnancy. The Alaskan article includes a quote where Palin states she felt the leak at 4 am Thurdays am, but she stayed to deliver the keynote speech over lunch, flew home without alerting the Alaskan Airlines to her condition, arrived in Alaska at 10:30 pm and delivered at the hospital at 6:30 am the following morning. Every search I've conducted shows no presence of a high level (or any) NICU for care of a premie with Down's...
BLOGGING BITCH!
· 1 year ago
Why would she go home when her oldest daughter had been missing months of school due to mono?
MorgaineSwann
· 1 year ago
RAIDS going on in St. Paul since last night harassing activists preparing for the RNC. They raided the Convergence Center last night, houses today. Someone from Democracy Now is in the house that was raided, lots of kids at the Convergence Center. For updates, follow @JasonBarnett on Twitter. The Convention hasn't even started yet and people are being handcuffed. Word is that the warrant specifies bomb making tools. This is apparently coming from the Ramsey Co. Sheriff, who is the only GOP elected official in the area. Please get the word out! Post everywhere!
LunaStick
· 1 year ago
I'm thinking we should leave this kind of thing alone. If we get desperate, maybe then bring it up but for now, it looks like we're going after a mom and her kids. That's the perception anyway. Fundies don't care about hypocricy, they are oblivious to it. Cognitave dissonance is their bread and butter
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
I'm sorry, but they do care. Their leaders don't, but their followers do. Adultery, for example, is a huge issue for them, even if their leaders look the other way. The followers don't. We need to stop using our values when determining what they find relevant.
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
John,
I REALLY think someone should ask dobson et. al. how they feel about a new mother with a special needs baby taking on the challenge of VP... and possibly President.
The religious right doesn't like women outside the home when they have a 'family'... what about a new baby?
they're constantly saying children need "both a mother and a father"... how is this going to be possible?
LunaStick
· 1 year ago
I live in the heart of Fundie territory (rural NC). I know a lot of them (none of them leaders). IF IF IF they could be convinced that any of it is true, it might might might have an effect on these people. The trouble with them is that they have an enormous capacity to believe what they WANT to believe and any evidence to the contrary gets ignored or is a plot by Satan himself to besmirch a "good Christian woman". Yes, I've heard that excuse many times.
BLOGGING BITCH!
· 1 year ago
John,
Palin's daughter Bristol supposedly stayed out of school for several months during the past school year, citing a case of mononeucleosis to explain her absence.
Is it normal to allow a child with mono around a pregnant woman?
synuclein
· 1 year ago
Have you seen this link -- there may be more to the mono story than meets the eye (like in the old days when "good girls" were sent away on "holiday" to take care of certain "issues")
Maybe the youngest isn't her son but her grandson...More concerns with the abbreviated vetting -- she's going to make Eagleton look like a brilliant VP choice.
KarenMrsLloydRichards
· 1 year ago
Like mother, like daughter! (I know Alaska and it's filled with white trash that got bounced out of their heartland hometowns).
moreleesafer
· 1 year ago
I am with you on your characterization of Alaskans, sister.
I lived there a while in Wasilla. When folks ask me to describe Alaskans I tell them:
Most of them seem to be folks who left Alabama because they thought that law against marrying your sister was WAY to strict.
MommaKat
· 1 year ago
pregnant women should not be around persons infected with chicken pox, rubella or mononucleosis. These are three of the biggies
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
Looks like the only way to get Track Palin's accurate birthdate is to track down his military records. Everything else has been scrubbed of the net.
BLOGGING BITCH!
· 1 year ago
Won't work. They conveniently lost Bush's records. I bet they're being lost right now.
lucky hussein
· 1 year ago
It really doesn't matter to the reich-wing what soft of things she did, only that she is now a republican, pro-life, hates gays, hates science, and loves jesus - hallelu-yah! "the lord has answered our prayers" -> actual quote from one of those freaks on ed schultz last friday.
These kinds of 'problems' are only used to point out the 'horrors' of the non-believers to the true-believers
flowerofhighrank
· 1 year ago
Has anybody asked Tina Fey how she feels about this? If they were to win, My God! She'd be perfect! I can see her playing Palin on a bear hunt...Amy Poehler could play the bear.
Oh my GOD.
POEHLER BEAR.
I am a comedy genius.
Soundboy_jeff_meanie
· 1 year ago
you're going need a HUGE sense of humor, just to keep your sanity, if they win.
BLOGGING BITCH!
· 1 year ago
Bristol missed school for months because she had mono. How much contact did "Mommy" have with her?
I'm betting she stayed in the same home and mono was the cover-up.
KarenMrsLloydRichards
· 1 year ago
Mono: the "kissing disease." So: who was lil' Bristol, erm, "kissing"?
Mark217
· 1 year ago
Another very uncomfortable question for Palin:
In 1988 Gov. Michael Dukakis was asked by Bernard Shaw at a debate, "Governor, if Kitty Dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer?" Dukakis replied, "No, I don't, and I think you know that I've opposed the death penalty during all of my life." This question was very coarse and the response turned many people off to Dukakis.
Someone needs to give Gov. Wire Hanger Palin a Dukakis-style, Willie Horton moment in 2008: "Governor Palin, if your youngest daughter with down's syndrome was beaten, raped, and became pregnant as a young girl of 12 (and the pregnancy gravely endangered her life) would you refuse to let her get a abortion and just let her die from the effects of the pregnancy to support your pro-life beliefs?
tanteachr
· 1 year ago
God!!! What a fabulous question to be posed to her. Who do you think might have the b-lls to ask it of her? . The left would not for fear of alienating votes for Obama, and having the "Palin Loving " right say the left is being unkind to her. We may be better off leaving this one alone and hoping it will be mysteriously "LEAKED" to the general population who are not into reading the blogs. I wonder if FOX is aware of this controversy. Guess not because I haven't heard them report it. Nor did I hear Hannity bring it up in his so called "interview" of her. Infact when I think about it I really did not hear the mainstream reports about Sarah's pregnancy either!
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
John,
This is barely more than 24 hours after the announcement of her candidacy and you have uncovered this. Leads me to wonder what else is out there about Sarah Palin?
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
i think this is the best way to get this issue out...let it come out through the blogs and Fox news but don't make it an official campaign centerpiece.
I do, however, think Daddy Dobson should be skewered with this question.
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
Anything that requires the Republicans to THINK should be off the table. Having to calculate when she got pregnant is way too much for the average Republican. They respond to things like the halitosis threat. Sarah Palin has severe halitosis and dignataries will not be able to approach her very closely. That is a foreign policy nightmare!
or---
Sarah Palin is a member of the Talibangelical movement. She believes she is a soldier in an army to force Americans to worship God the way she worships via Presidential or Executive fiat. Its as extreme, and dangerous to the American way of life, as the Taliban muslim movement...
Examples like the above actually penetrate the mental fog of some Republicans. One has to always remember most of them pulled the lever TWICE for a man they wanted to drink beer with! They have ZERO judgment and make their decisions based on emotion rather than logic.
Polly_Tics
· 1 year ago
I just followed John's newest link on this thread and see that it brought us to Alan Colmes site and what do you know, he lists Americablog as one of his favorite places!
Well now, isn't that cute as I "met" Alan about 16-17years ago. Alan, since you just might be watching, HELLO THERE!
coolcatdaddy
· 1 year ago
The whole hypocrisy thing doesn't work when you're talking about candidates pandering to the Religious Reich.
It doesn't matter if they've had children out of wedlock, done abortions, had homosexual sex or even if they're pedophiles as long as they're "saved" and all is forgiven now. They actually eat that shit up, since it makes them feel that a politician is "one of them" because he or she has "overcome" their sins.
There's no logic to the way that religious wingnuts think.
With Palin, her record on issues and lack of experience, along with McCain's age and other issues, will probably give more independent-leaning and more rational "values voters" tipping towards the Dems or staying home. But there's always going to be a good percentage that would vote for Charles Manson if he paraded around carrying a cross and said he was against abortion.
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
you're right. she's gonna have to be proven a secretly muslim lesbian to make the religious wingers stay home.
kravitz
· 1 year ago
the only reason it would have relevance is if she said specifically she was not pregnant - or a virgin - when they married. it would have relevance if Trig is one of the daughter's kids. it would mean palin's lying to cover up a truth. and wouldn't be the first family to do so.
in Trig's case, she would be lying to cover up a daughter's mistake, having followed in the mother's footsteps. palin would be seen as being a parent trying to help her daughter live a regular life. but it would be lying to the public, because she said Trig is her child.
what I want to know is are there photos of how she looked pregnant with the other four kids who are not in question. if she's showing with them, there's no reason, especially with her age, for not showing if she was ever indeed pregnant with Trig.
aibi
· 1 year ago
As to your #3 point: Human gestation period is 280 days or 40 weeks, not 38. That extra 2 weeks would have given Sarah and her true love time to find out she had missed her period (28 days), get a pregnancy test, and then elope. With Track born April 20, 1988, he would have been 6 weeks premature had he been conceived on their wedding night, which is so unlikely. A 6 week preemie is guaranteed a stay in the neo-natal unit, but no news of that?
MarshSA
· 1 year ago
Agree with you there. By my calulcation he would have just been over 33 weeks gestation. As term is actually 37-42 weeks, he would obviously be premature. And being in a pediatrician (but not a neonatalogist), and what would have happened to a newborn 33 weeker in 1989, i would have to say that these babies must have been in the hospital for a week or 2. Anyone know his birthweight?
BarbaraGordon
· 1 year ago
As much as I hate digging around in someone's sex life, Dobson and the Fundies have made all of our sex lives an issue by wanting to ban abortion, birth control, etc....Sarah Palin is their new poster child. If she is a hypocrite, that needs to be exposed. Personally, I think that the possibility that her fifth child is really her daughter's is the story with legs. That is the one which will blow her credibility sky high and force her from the race. It is easy to understand and doesn't require counting dates of conception.
SarainKC
· 1 year ago
As loathsome as this is, I totally agree. We can't ignore this because if this holy roller gets in, God help us all. She and all the religious kooks need to be called out and stopped. I feel bad for her daughter, but saving her privacy at the expense of every female moving forward is what is at stake. It has to be done and swiftly.
tonydal
· 1 year ago
I have to believe that you female voters are overwhelmingly way too smart to fall for this attempt at snowing you and getting your vote. I'm all for stopping the religious Kooks! There is nothing I hate more than someone trying to cram their religion down my throat. Maybe the religious kooks aren't all that different from the Muslim extremists when you think about it. Anyone who opposes their beliefs is considered evil.
Scottsdalian
· 1 year ago
If...and this is a big if...this baby is actually her daughter's and not the Gov's, might some laws have been broken while covering this up?
For example, when the insurance company was billed for doctors' visits, prenatal testing, etc. --- who was the patient/mother? And who is the mother listed on the birth certificate?
If the Guv is listed on insurance and birth cert docs, but this baby was actually the daughter's -- hasn't the Guv broken some laws???
This might be more than salacious rumor-mongering -- it might end up being criminal. That is -- IF the baby is actually the daughter's.
BLOGGING BITCH!
· 1 year ago
A decent mother would never live in the same home where a child has been home from school for months with Mono.
The baby belongs to Bristol and it has Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. Sarah is just a shitty mother.
SarainKC
· 1 year ago
Wouldn't that be Insurance Fraud at the least? ANd if they used Sarah's insurance from her state job, is that fraud against the state, too?
Scottsdalian
· 1 year ago
I would guess this would be insurance fraud.....IF it was the daughter's and the Guv was listed as patient/mom. Also, it has been my experience that the hospital and doctors' offices usually bill the insurance company directly. Again - IF this is the daughter's baby and the Guv is listed as patient/mom, this would also seem to implicate the hospital and doctors in any potential insurance fraud.
hawkseye
· 1 year ago
Good points, Scott.
Mike_G
· 1 year ago
It never bothered the droolers that Nancy Reagan was three months pregnant when St Ronald married her.
And 'Truck'? WTF?
jiminportlandoregon
· 1 year ago
Interesting (to me at least) Palin was born and raised in Sandpoint, Idaho. Home of the white supremacists. Her son Track (are you kiddng me?) was born on April 20th, which is also Hitler's birthday. (It's also my mother's birthday, but that's another long story for another day). I know this is awful to think, but I DO think it. I wonder if these right wing nuts are white supremacists. She supported and voted for Pat Buchanan, known anti-semite and racist, and thinks he walks on water. I really think the neocons played a huge roll in her selection. They figure if McCain kicks the bucket, they can play her like a fiddle. God, this country is a fucking mess.
tonydal
· 1 year ago
So true Jim! The republicans proved in the last 8 years that all they need is a puppet with flexible strings. You and I both know that its now, just as it was 4 years ago, a matter of pride with republican voters which is a real shame. McCain says he's a Maverick when in actuality he's just a really open minded puppet. It's funny that she supported Buchanan! Something I did not know.
Wake up America!
ydthin
· 1 year ago
I understand your reticence John but they never hesistate to rip gays apart based on 'morality' ...please remain focused on the fact that there are a million dead Iraqis and five million Iraqi children orphaned because of this war. This is blood and dead serious and you are fighting the good fight. The fight already got dirty when this admin invaded Iraq in 2003. This site is a haven for me today because I find this nomination so abhorrent (as do probably all the qualified repub veep candidates, ha ha). Sorry, but there is no way this woman has abstained from birth control and now only has five children. Sorry, I absolutely do not believe that and no one else should either. Women with political ambitions like hers do not take chances like that. My mother used three different types of birth control and still had four children, three in consecutive years. If Palin never used birth control she'd be like Mrs. Duggar.
I hope people continue to dig into the truth regarding whether the older child really belongs to the daughter. John, I hope you are able to continue doing what you are doing today. So many lives are at stake here, and so many have been lost. I remember when the U.S. first invaded Iraq, and Riverbend had her blog, and she was aghast that no one was trying to stop the U.S. and she asked "Where is the world?" in wondering how it was allowed to happen. You are doing the right thing. People who tell you otherwise are incurably naive and there are lives at stake if McCain gains the presidency.
devis1
· 1 year ago
I have absolutely no problem pursuing this. Period.
NYCRaf
· 1 year ago
Speaking as a physician, there's enough "reasonable doubt" to throw off the basis of this post.
As MarshSA noted term pregnancies are actually 37-42 weeks. That leave 3 weeks between DOC (date of conception) and eloping. Assuming she has a 28 day cycle (which can vary, my wife is 40 days), that would leave those 3 weeks to find she's pregnant and eloping.
Possible (major) hole in your theory: -What if Track was born premature? With modern medical technology & practices babies can survive despite being weeks premature. They just need to spend time in a Neonatal ICU under close care. As MarshSA pointed out, you'll need to find out Track's birth weight.
While I agree that hypocracy should be exposed always, remember she was young then. If I can forgive Obama his own youthful indescretions, I can give Palin a pass here.
There are many ways to discount Palin as a VP pick. I just don't think this one can hold water. I think her current religious & political views are more meaningful to the Conservatives.
ydthin
· 1 year ago
nope, you are missing the point about 'youthful indiscretions'. Obama isn't trying to take away a woman's right to choose, (or eventually birth control), or say that children and family are the province of the married, and the heterosexual despite having behaved differently in the past. The hypocrisy, as always with republicans, is the issue. I don't know why that is so hard for people to grasp.
NYCRaf
· 1 year ago
I see your point, you do realize that with me, you're preaching to the choir?
Most conservatives won't care about her first child being born out of wedlock, aside from the Christianists. They'll just see a smiling mother of 5 who currently agrees with everything they believe in.
I just think that there are more powerful reasons, among them her stance on the issues you mentioned, that will lead Moderates & Independents to be concerned about Palin and to not vote McCain. The right won't care about any hypocracy.
piquetfens
· 1 year ago
As a conservative I implore you not to "give a pass" to anyone. We strive for accountability and a moral standard. I encourage forgivness of transgressions if the offender is genuinely contrite and displays growth in wisdom from the error. "Free passes" degrade our society and no true conservative wants one.
KISSman
· 1 year ago
I'm plenty comfortable with this since she's one of those right-wing crazies who like to impose their beliefs onto everyone else.
Speaking of Palin's babies... there are some trying to piece together whether her last child is actually hers. Hey, it's not my theory, but at least they use actual news articles to make the case: http://rockthetruth.blogspot.com/2008/08/palins...
piquetfens
· 1 year ago
The only problem (other then "actual news artcles" beinga qestionable source) is that the news articles do not make the case. They are peppered into a chain that draws it's own conclusions which are not logically derived from the news sources.
hawkseye
· 1 year ago
My dad was an Episcopal priest, and when blue nosed old ladies in the parish would complain about some young lady having her baby "a little early." My dad would explain the length of gestation, "You know the first one can come anytime and after that, it takes nine months." But even if some enlightened Christians don't care, there are plenty who do, and they are allies of Palin and McSame, so it IS an issue and we should discuss it.
Ann_in_KC
· 1 year ago
Gut test for the future...If it feels uncomfortable to write about it, don't do it.
August 29, 1988 to April 20, 1989 is 8 months. Being 4 weeks pregnant at her wedding means she probably didn't even know it. So, she had sex with her fiance. Duh
surakmn
· 1 year ago
He is "legitimate" because his parents were married when he was born. The date of conception has nothing to do with it.
Social conservatives care about OTHER PEOPLE'S sex lives, not their own. In Palin's case, she didn't abort and she married the baby's father so the theocrats and the religious wrong will be fine with it.
There are real issues about Palin - like her positions on just about every issue you care to name - that justify discussion. This is not necessary.
jixter
· 1 year ago
Thank you, John! Great post - and terrific responses, too!
Just wanted to add that I was kept out of First Grade in 1958 because I had "infectious mononucleosis" - but it was 'only' for something like 3 weeks - NOT 4 months! Was it because I was 6 and not 17? Who knows? Being younger, was I also constitutionally 'stronger' than a 17 year old? Who can say?
I remember them calling it "the kissing disease" but I swear I wasn't participating! I stayed at home while my family came and went, living normal lives. I wasn't quarantined, either. I spent my time on the livingroom sofa watching TV and drinking a lot of ginger ale.
Keep it up, Mr. Aravosis! You are needed!
FrequentPoster
· 1 year ago
I find it curious that not only this blog, but all of the other significant liberal blogs, have either downplayed or outright censored the story of Sarah Palin's coverup of her daughter's pregnancy. This is an obvious set of lies. There is NO WAY that Sarah Palin is the mother of Trig Palin.
Just look at the story: A 44-year-old woman is pregnant with her fifth child, who she knows will be born with Down Syndrome. In her eighth month, she flies to a business meeting via commercially scheduled airlines. While at the meeting, her water breaks.
She stays at the meeting, and delivers a half-hour speech. Then she goes to the airport, and makes a trip from Texas to Alaska, involving more than seven hours of flights and one airport layover, for a total of more than nine hours. When she gets to Anchorage, where does this woman, who is a high-risk pregnancy by any definition you can imagine, go?
To the best and closest local hospital? Nope. She has her husband drive her another 45 minutes to some backwoods community hospital, where she delivers a 6 pound, 2 ounce child a month premature.
Come on, John. I realize that you're not familiar with childbirth and the mechanics, or at least I don't think you are. Neither am I. So, just to be sure, I went and asked some of my female friends who are. Every single one of them said that story is a crock. Yet, neither AmericaBlog, nor DailyKos, nor HuffingtonPost, etc., will talk much about this. When they do, the discussion is buried.
I find this phenomenal. Talk about being divorced from the public. The circumstances of Trig Palin's birth has been a fertile ground for gossip and speculation in Alaska since the moment it was announced. John, you were an aide to Ted Stevens. Did they keep you in a cage in Washington, or did you ever go to Alaska? Did you make any connection there? If you did, you'd know what I'm talking about.
So tell me, why is this topic so suddenly taboo on the websites of the left?
mirth
· 1 year ago
You do realize that you are commenting on a post thread about this "taboo" subject, one that goes into some detail?
KISSman
· 1 year ago
I read this story on several sites now and I'm really torn about it. I don't want to be like one of those idiots that reads the moronic rumors about Obama and blindly believes them. This could be something like that.
HOWEVER... there are some really interesting things surrounding that last child. So far, no one has produced a photo of Sarah Palin where she is really physically showing. The photos of her at the 6-month point really don't show any sign of pregnancy. Her oldest daughter was out of school for 4 to 5 months with a supposed severe case of mono that just happened to last through the pregnancy. Palin didn't actually announce the pregnancy until the 7th month, but how the heck could she hide such a thing especially since she's normally a slender woman?
Now if any of this gets debunked or someone can produce a picture of a very pregnant Sarah Palin during her last pregnancy, I'll dismiss these rumors as nonsense. But until then, something just sounds a bit fishy....
piquetfens
· 1 year ago
How can anyone be so clueless!!! The child is obviously the love child of Sarah Palin and an ET. The normal rules do not apply and only top military and intelligence officers know anything about alien gestation.
Palin could be an alien...part of a deal brokered with the alien species to get one of "them" at the head of the Earth's most powerful government...it is the only reasonable conclusion.
KeithNovo
· 1 year ago
If we really want to get silly, Track was born on Hitler's 100th birthday. Of course, he turned ten when Columbine happened, the spring after Matthew Wayne Shepard's murder.
Ben Dover
· 1 year ago
Enjoyed this thread immensely.
I'm still going to go with my personal rule of thumb.
If it's a republican involved in whiff of scandal time will generally prove that the republican was, indeed, involved in the nefarious situation. Without fail.
This should become a HUGE talking point. No part of Palin's story checks out sufficiently. Palin should be asked to explain this constantly until the truth is revealed. I also feel the same way about McCain, that he should answer whether or not he has been involved in a sexual affair with another woman during the time he has been married to his second wife.
But I'm funny that way.
piquetfens
· 1 year ago
Funny as in - you live by a double standard funny? or funny as in - you are seeking professional help for sexual addiction funny?
Bambleweeny57
· 1 year ago
Hey Mirth,... (from post below) What are you talking about? THIS thread has nothing to do with the TRIG Palin question, which is much more significant. THIS thread goes into detail on a very silly, old story involving no lies.
With TRIG, you have a prospective VP lying about a recent birth, possibly shaming her daughter to hide a pregnancy for her own political benefit, basking in the fake memes of "mother of five", "governing state while giving birth", and bashing the rest of us for our contraception/abortion choices and family values
jwcoopusa
· 1 year ago
Care to retract your idiotic diatribe now, Brambleweeny?
You moonbats sure make life interesting, you do!
-jwc-
BarbaraGordon
· 1 year ago
I can envision a National Enquirer cover story loudly claiming that Sarah Palin's 5th child is not hers but her daughter's. You can bet that they are all over this story - unless TNE is owned by someone similar to Murdoch.
penny123
· 1 year ago
You dems really start lashing out and try digging up junk when you get scared. It's really amusing to read! Ha!!!!!!!!!!
tonydal
· 1 year ago
I don't think that is the case here or the point of this article. I think the point is that you republicans love to cram your morals and family values down everyone elses throat only to expose in this case that you all are like anyone else. Sinners who have babies out of wedlock and drink alcohol and go fishing from time to time without a licensce, etc. All things that I have admittedly done. None of us really care about her personal life nor do we think she's a bad person. But now she's on the morally judgemental republican ticket and is forced to have her personal affairs exposed. It's quite embarassing for the GOP for certain. The fact is she was chosen because the dems passed on a woman and the republicans decided to try to exploit that. Whether they admit it or not it IS the case. This is typical Rove style strategy. Take advantage of your opponents weakness in the eye of the voters. In this case they tried to get the woman's vote the cheap way. It's obviously not going to work. By the way, Rove should be locked away in that capital prison cell until he's very old. I think as Americans we all can agree that we don't like to be snowed and taken for idiots by people like Carl Rove. Between the cable news channels that tell us what to do and strategists who don't have our best interests in mind it's no wonder our country remains divided. Swallow your pride and vote for Barack Obama. That man genuinely cares about us and is an extremely intelligent individual. The Dems aren't offering us all a snow job this time around. I like McCain and think he's a good man. If he were on a ticket that allowed him to be as genuine, I may consider voting for him. Unfortunately he is forced to be a republican hand puppet. I can't endorse that like the millions of evangelicals who do what the preacher tells them to do. Wake up America! Your government thinks you're all idiots. Let's put a stop to it. ~~ Registered Independent voter...
piquetfens
· 1 year ago
Please allow me to correct a misconception - social conservatives do not attempt to "cram (our) morals and family values down everyone else’s throat", we simply try to set a moral compass that creates an environment which is conducive to the pursuit of happiness. Now we all agree that there is a moral compass…do not kill, do not steal, do not lie. A social conservative could equally argue that “you” (however you classify yourself) "cram your morals and family values down everyone else’s throat". So I expose your failed attempt to polarize the principal and ideology…it is fundamentally the same. The question lies in how we define the parameters of moral trespass and the difference lies in the road to redemption. Moral conservatives take a structured, logical approach that follows a consistent path toward a defined objective. This approach is in deep opposition to the aimless moral wanderings of the Godless left. Our values remain rigid and our mercy and forgiveness are reserved for those who are truly contrite. We expect righteous people to make mistakes, but we also expect them to own their mistakes, demonstrate sincere remorse, indicate that they have learned and grown in wisdom, and make better decisions as they progress in life. I must also correct your assertion that “(Palin) was chosen because the dems passed on a woman and the republicans decided to try to exploit that. Whether they admit it or not it IS the case.” Ha, ha, ha…this IS the case…you arrogant ass…you are obviously ignorant of the very strong female leadership positons that Mcain has consistently supported: Carly Fiorina is a top aide and was on the short list of VP candidates as is you Meg Whitman. Your gripe seems to be against the GOP and their poor record of according power to women – please reply with a female Democrat that has enjoyed the power and prestige of Condi Rice…and while we stoop to playing the disadvantaged card….name a negro that has enjoyed the power and prestige of Colin Powell. Reply…I dare you…and then stop wasting our time with your ignorant ranting.. Stick to the facts man, the record speaks for itself.
katrina16
· 1 year ago
Madeleine Korbel Albright was the first woman to become United States Secretary of State. She served under Bill Clinton's administration.
All current members of the Congressional Black Caucus are Democrats. This article talks about the 5 most influential African Americans in the Clinton Administration: http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:dgYeryBVT-...
Also, I agree that I don't care whether Sara Palin had premarital sex or not, but if she did, the fact that she is advocating abstinence does make her seem a bit hypocritical. To tell you the truth, she reminds me a lot of Bush, someone who isn't knowledgeable enough to lead America. Did anyone hear her statement about Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac being too costly for the taxpayers, making it clear that she did not realize that those are both private entities? Read #2 in this article: http://www.alternet.org/election08/98228/8_more...
Larrycraig
· 1 year ago
It's the hypocrisy of telling others how to be "moral" while falling short of that yourself.
memyselfandI
· 1 year ago
Actually the average first pregnancy for a First Time Mom is 41 weeks 5 days, not 38 weeks
OliviaC
· 1 year ago
I have no idea about Ms. Palin's situation but I can say this isn't necessarily true. I had my first child, a son, after being married for 3 years. He arrived 6 weeks early but still weighed over 6 lbs. and came home after 4 days. My second child, a girl, was born 5 weeks early--also 6 lbs. My third child, a son, was born 4 weeks early and at 7 lbs. You get the picture. My 4 th child was only 3 weeks early but 8 lbs. My OB said every woman is different and some have much shorter gestations. He couldn't explain it but sees it quite often. None of my kids were termed "preemie" because their lungs were mature.
lc12345
· 1 year ago
Aug 29th to April 20th is only 8 months, that's not the issue. The issue is with the ignorant, judgmental, hypocrites in this country.
cold66
· 1 year ago
Just to point out, there are 235 days from April 20, 1998 to August 29th 1999 or 33 1/2 weeks, but pregnancy terms, which are typically 40 weeks,are calculated from the first day of the last menstruation. Ovulation is typically about 14 days after menstruation begins. While sperm can survive in a womens body for as long as 5 days, that only puts the date of coitus even ealier, so in fairness, assuming initial coitus occured on the Palins wedding night, and their wedding night was also the day of ovulation, for Track to be born on April 20th, at about 31 weeks, he would have been more than two months premature.
Go down to the estimated due date and put in April 20, 2009. It will then tell you that as of today's date, September 2, you are 7 weeks one day pregnant. This means she was approximately SIX weeks (plus a day or more) pregnant when they eloped, not one month. if Track was born on his due date. BTW, first time mothers are more likely to go past their due dates rather than the other way around if the mother is healthy.
This is about right, a woman misses her period then at six weeks in 1988 was the earliest possible time to be tested for pregnancy . They eloped, that is NOT the issue.
What is important is that this woman thinks that marriage even for her own seventeen year old daughter impregnated by a self-described f--g redneck now eighteen year old is the best option in these cases. Furthermore she is for abstinence (obviously didn't work in either one of these cases-like mother like daughter), no sex education, over-turning Roe V. Wade.
Palin was not chosen because she is a woman, she was chosen because she is the RIGHT woman to appeal to the anti-abortion Evangelical right, the precise crowd that wasn't happy with McCain.
If she remains on the ticket she will bring that voting block out in droves. McCain already received a surge in campaign donations with her nomination. The fact that she has NO foreign policy experience makes no difference whatsoever because the anti-abortion crowd have over-turning Roe v. Wade at the TOP of their list.
By the way, Time had an interesting article that she brought abortion into her MAYORAL campaign.
Yesterday she trotted out her 5 month pregnant seventeen year old daughter who is doing the "right thing" in these people's minds, now she can say the same for herself.
However, Sarah Palin has NO RIGHT telling others what they can and cannot do in similar cases but it is obvious it is at the top of her agenda. "Abstinence hypocrite" or not. (remember, there's the "none are perfect" fall back ALWAYS)
piquetfens
· 1 year ago
You misunderstand the logic and wisdom of social conservatives and assume that we are irrational and ignorant. We learn from our mistakes and, out of love and compassion, tryto help others from falling in the same pit. Your error is in thinking that we relate in the same wy that you do...cover up and make excuses. Ours is a path of contrition, redemption, and wisdom.
Think about it and perhaps it will become more clear to you. Hopefully you too can learn and grow.
tulsa
· 5 months ago
Cover up and make excuses? Conservatives just deny until you rub their nose in it, and then seek forgiveness as a last resort. Married but caught sucking c*ck in an airport bathroom??? Lie baby lie! It's all good if you can get your wife to stand by in horror as you make the public apology.
piquetfens
· 1 year ago
As I read these postings I am reminded of the elation that felt when I first read Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged"...the story portrays (among other things) a society lacking moral values that uses the strong value system of the few great leaders in the world as a weapon against these same great leaders. The tripe spewed by the valueless reflects the way that terrorists use our country's values against us...we can not and do not wire young children with bombs as they do, yet, when a child that they deem worthless is accidentally killed by our troops they villanize the USA and use our values against us. Terrorists that intentionally kill and mame innocent civilians and then demonize the USA when a military objective results in some civilian casualties...they do not share our moral code and yet try to use ours against us.
The moral compass of the right is a guide that we try our best to follow...we often fail but we dust ourselves off and resume our moral course. Our aim is true, our values do not change. When we err, we own our mistakes and try to resume the moral path in spite of our mistakes.
You who wander aimlessly, lacking a moral standard will never understand our intentional course nor can you understand the bond that we share with each other. We steer a rightous path littered with human err and weakness of will...and obstructed by the morally lost that either blindly wander in our way or interntionally obstruct us...out of jealously, contempt, or misguided judgement and ignorance.
We will stay the course...we will live and die by our convictions, and when the offender is contrite, we will continue to forgive each other.
vojak
· 1 year ago
Hi Nick,
Palin was married (eloped) on August 29, 1988. Her eldest son Track was born on April 20, 1989. The human gestation period is 40 weeks (not 38). If Palin got pregnant on her wedding night AND the pregnancy went full-term Track would have been born in early June, 1989. He could have been a preemy (44 days early), but he would have had a very low birth weight. What did he weigh? How long was he in the hospital? Answers to these questions would provide additional clues. But add the elopement into the mix and it becomes pretty obvious that she was pregnant when she married. Would an ex-beauty queen forego a lavish wedding with a fancy dress and the chance to be queen for the day, etc.? I don't think so. Personally I don't care if she conceived 10 kids before she was married - but the hypocrisy is infuriating for a number of reasons.
4everyman
· 1 year ago
The average pregnancy is 40 weeks from the first day of the last menstrual period (LMP). All medical personnel use the LMP as the date for determining the due date (also known as the expected date of confinement - EDC). Since most people don't know when they conceived but most do know their last period, it makes it more standardized. First pregnancies tend to average 41 weeks. A rule of thumb for figuring a due date is to take the first date of the last period, subtract three months and add one week.
So givng Palin the benefit of the doubt that she conceived on the exact night of her elopement August 29, 1988, her LMP would have been approximately 8/15. Subtract three months and you are left with 5/15. Add a week and the due date would have been 5/22. And since most first time moms go over by about a week, well....you do the math. Our 'little miss abstinence" was more likely than not, knocked up by the time she eloped. She is a hypocrite and she is just an average person like everybody else, and average people have sex. Married or not. Sex is a drive. A biological function that ensures survival of the species. Clearly she herself didn't practice abstinence, nor did her daughter who presumably was raised from the cradle to practice "abstinence" only. For God's sake lady, teach both birth control and abstinence. Your daughter is not a slut nor a paragon of virtue. She is a person with a real sex drive and had she had access to birth control, maybe she wouldn't be in this predicament. Once peple in this country stop attributing judgment and shame to a biological function (like breathing, eating and urinating, sex is something we all do) we will be a lot better off.
snowzieroze
· 1 year ago
well said
ThinkingOnMyOwnTwoFeet
· 1 year ago
Perhaps the reason Sarah is so adamant about preaching abstinence is because she possibly has first-hand experience of the consequences when one chooses not to? Sometimes, people learn from their past experiences folks - and doing so doesn't make them a hypocrite.
4everyman
· 1 year ago
Sarah Palin is a hypocrite because she wants others to "do as I say and not as I do (or did) " - i.e. practice abstinence. She is also a hypocrite because she is a "Christian" with "Christian values" and we all know that Christians don't have pre-marital sex, let alone children out of wedlock.
ThinkingOnMyOwnTwoFeet
· 1 year ago
Christians can make mistakes like everyone else. They can also learn from them and chose to help others in the process. This doesn't make them a hypocrite.
CR
· 1 year ago
Actually the original poster is correct. On a website designed to calculate the date conceived by birth date Tracks conception happened July 28, 1988, almost a month before they got married
proudmom41
· 1 year ago
I am blinded by the hypocrisy of the Republican political machine! Do not preach to me your values and your righteous beliefs and then embrace one of your own for falling down, while you shun the rest of your country! There are so many things wrong about Sara Palin that I don't even know where to begin! I don't care that she was pregnant before she was married, I care that she pretends to know what's best for the entire country but was obviously too busy to know what was going on in her own daughters life. I don't care that her daughter is pregnant and not married, I care that in some ways the right wing has glorified this in an attempt to show that Sara and Todd are just another typical American family. I don't care that she hid her last pregnancy from her entire family for 7 months, I care that she has a special needs baby that needs his mother and father to be there, every step of the way, yet she has allowed her ego, not her religious doctrine to guide her professional decisions. I care that she embodies all that I believe is wrong with the religious right. I care because my daughters need real women as role models, not hypocrits. I care because McCain and his camp think that she will draw Hillary's votes! Do they think we're stupid? As Gloria said, "the only thing similar to Hillary and Sara is a chromosome." What type of parent, selfishly throws her 17 year old daughter under the critical eye of the American public, all for professional glory!
paramus
· 1 year ago
A human pregnancy lasts 40 weeks (10 lunar months). Check any medical book or web page.
Whether or not Ms. Palin "had to get married" is no one's business. The valid point is that she chose to marry and she chose to continue her pregnancy. The operative word is CHOSE. She had a choice, a legal and safe choice. Her daughter at age 17 also has a choice. However, Ms Palin promotes adoption as a preferable choice. Is it her daughter's choice to marry at 17 and become a mother? That is her business however, once again the operative word is CHOICE. Ms. Sarah Palin has established the position to remove choice from all females in the United States based upon her own religious belief.
Regarding her experience to become the person one heartbeat away from a 72 year old President with a history of melanoma -- The story of the Emperor's New Clothes comes to mind. Keep saying it and saying it and the gullible portion of this country will begin to admire those new clothes even though the Emperor is stark naked!
kda4ua
· 1 year ago
We have the right to know if Palin practices what she preaches! I think that is doubtful at this point. Her daughter is just like her hockey mom! They both should be on birth control.
snowzieroze
· 1 year ago
sounds like a serious case of situational ethics. The calling card of the right
freedom1st
· 4 months ago
The author fails to show where any of the statements by Dobson, Palin or another conservative shows any tendency to want to legislate the issue of premarital conception. Again, and typically, the left invents a straw man and then fails to show the evidence to back up their claims against the strawman. Where is the proposed legislation outlawing conception out of wedlock, since that is a main allegation in this article. It is obvious that the left is simply uncomfortable with the idea of morality, and expect anyone who even values morals to be perfect.
yadkinriver
· 3 months ago
This is ridiculous.
mellayella57
· 3 months ago
I think the entire republican party are hypocrites! In the past years many republicans in office have admitted or have been caught doing numerous things such as being gay, infidelity and just being plain corrupt. Thank God for Obama!!!!
Gail E. Jordan
· 1 week ago
I will be glad when this part of Sarah Palin's life is finally exposed. You may want to research this fact - she dragged her heels about releasing her medical report until a few days before the 2008 election. In that report, it states that all of her children were "full term". She was definitely pregnant when she eloped claiming the elopement was because her family didn't have money for a wedding. Boo hoo. She needs to be exposed for the hypocrite that she is.
All Comments
Reaction in Alaska to Sarah's selection as Veep isn't favorable either:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/30/129...
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/v-gallery/story/...
who looks 7+ months pregnant in this picture.
of hers---yes, that's a bloated uterus!!!
And on young girls, pregnancy doesn't show as much,
so this would be realistic... But why wouldn't she cover
up with a big fluffy sweater?
I'm sure there's not much to do in Wasilla, other than
screw around!
As for Palin's fertility, she's obviously quite able, BUT
at age 44 when she's devoted to her ambitions? Odd.
If anything, it would seem to be at most a 5-month tummy, not 7+... but then, everyone is different. But if she had been pregnant, I don't think they would have had her pose in that position, from that angle, and with that top on, especially it they were trying to hide it.
Sarah definitely doesn't look pregnant either, although she's the one wearing the straight-hanging, fluffy fleece vest.
I can read men pretty well but I'm not so good with women, but I've seen a half dozen interveiws of this woman and I get the feeling she is a pathological liar. Certainly six or seven sound bites isn't much of a vetting process but I'm pretty convinced there is much less there than meets the eye. With all the qualified Republican candidates who would be good Vice Presidents, we could have seen much better. What a mind-numbing choice.
She's opposed to the right to choose an abortion even in cases of rape or incest. That, and her global warming denial, should be the lines of attack.
Not to mention her support for Buchanan!
Do you even HEAR yourself???
Case in point, the term "knocked up" has creepy connotations and is disrespectful to women IMHO. Yes, the right is ripe with HYPOCRISY and their take on women's rights is abysmal, but we should not do what we accuse the other side of doing.
Even though it may be a bit touchy at first, I do think we need to think about our language when discussing this stuff. In our passion for honesty, we don't want to insult the very people (women) who are with us in the fight.
I know, I know - hypocrisy and all that - I just think that all this sex nonsense shouldn't have anything to do with our politics and so, hypocrisy or not, wish we didn't perpetuate the practice
However I am suggesting that maybe you should reconsider further threads about her first born's legitimacy. That is concerning stuff (such as timing of birth: prematurity) of which we are unaware. However her last birth IS questionable and warranting investigation considering her FAR right wing reach.
Just saying that we don't want to alienate those who agree with us in premise but might take offense to terminology (especially). Case in point was someone in this thread used the term "knocked up" and that term is disrespectful to women.
I use to listen to Dr. Laura....and the one thing I remember was that she was VERY VERY against women going back to work after having a baby.
When Palin had her last baby....she went back to work as Mayor the next day......yes...the next day
So, I can just imagine what Dr. Laura MUST me thinking now of Palin being a Gov with a 4 month old.....but NOW...running for VP.
Just a thought of the ramifications of what the GOP is against.
Palin also said that her son is being deployed on Sept 11th, so does she believe the lie about the connection between 9-11 and Iraq.
So is Palin Harriet or Brownie? Heck-of-a -job Palin
PLEASE- attack on issues, not on sexism.
No one claimed reverse sexism when Larry Craig was visiting strangers in the men's room at the airport. It was the hypocrisy.
If Clinton can be impeached for a consusual, gods-damned, blow-job, Palin can be thrown off the ticket for covering up the maternity of her children. It speaks to her lying and hypocrisy.
If you attack female candidates the same way you would attack a male candidate, it's seen as sexism because she's a woman being criticized by a man. I am positive that this same issue would be brought up if McCain's VP choice were a male religious kook. This issue is about hypocricy and there is nothing sexist about it.
The fact is that some women are sensitive to the idea of men criticizing women even when the content itself is not sexist in the least. Just because some perceive these critiques to be sexist doesn't mean that they are.
Hell, they let Mark Foley fuck the children. That wasn't even an ethics violation....was it, Doc Hastings?
I can see why you are not comfortable. Her child was not born out of wedlock. Dobson and his ilk may frown on conception out of wedlock but they go ballistic if "born out of wedlock". I don't think this issue should be an issue. If you were going to go after an issue, I would rather see you hit on the irresponsible behavior of Palin to board Alaska Airlines in Texas, while in active labor, to give birth in Alaska. The birth of the fifth child remains abounds with rumors BUT it is no rumor about her flying to Alaska from Texas. It is no rumor that she had tests done prior to delivery that probably showed this fifth child to have Downs Syndrome.
Now why would any mother risk the life of her child or herself to fly from Texas to Alaska (about 4,000 miles)? She could have had her baby in Texas without risk but she did not do that. It was, in my opinion, a terrible decision on her part. It goes deeper in than if Palin is willing to risk her life or the child's life what would she risk if she became president?
My, the story of her fifth child is so delicious I could eat it with a spoon.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24213499/
You know the part(s) of this thing that are most questionable are the issue of how she never told anyone (even at 7 months), the fact that NO one thought she even looked a bit chubby, the thought that her daughter of 16 at the time was suddenly home from school for mono and that Sarah acted so amazingly strong in having her baby and going to work the next day. In the world in which I live, that is RIDICULOUS!
Her youngest infants birth IS an issue for investigation I think, especially in lieu of her staunch religious right preaching and ideology.
Sarah never told anyone she was pregnant (at 7 months no less), no one said she even looked a bit portly and then voila, her water broke (turn your head ole men with weak tummies) and then she finished her meeting, ran off to deliver the tyke and then magically went to work the very next day. All of this is suspicious in story line, timing and human behavior. Her oldest daughter at the time, was 16 and was home from school for mono for a number of months.
Now, all of this is salacious stuff, could it be true or if it is true is all up for investigation and discussion I suspect. But I really feel kind of creepy when you challenge her first son's birth as you have here, but my feeling creepy needn't stop investigation nor discussion...just sayin'...
I was wondering if their children were home-schooled or something. A pregnant teen is hard to hide if they go out in public at all.
People should be help up to the same standards they put on other people. If someone like Palin is comfortable passing judgment on complete strangers 'in toto', she should be honored to be told how well she is upholding her very own standards.
If she is allowed to tel me what to do in my private life, I am allowed to tell her what to do. It totally works both ways.
What's the correlation, Mrs. Palin?
This is just a fucking insane weekend even discussing this unimportant woman. She should only stay up there and run the Alaskan PTA
Ditto having the kid in her 40's, despite the risk. Full quiver and all that.
These people are the MASTERS of cognitive dissonance. There's plenty of ideological fodder to attack her with. That is, if it isn't better just to go over her head and attack McCain.
Doing the nasty + insemination + unmarried = filthy, Godless, Democrat values.
It's the GOP Double Standard, which must be accepted and not questioned.
I think you mean McCain here, not Cheney.
Man, I don't know. Seems like there's some weird stuff going on in this family.
Have to say, though, I'm a little queasy. Not because of the Fundies--I like throwing stuff in their faces--but because the Hillary people are really starting to get an attitude about this on the other blogs, and the last thing we need is another civil war 60 days from the election.
Guess I'll just keep quiet on the personal stuff and jump in on the threads that talk about her lack of professional experience and accomplishments and laughable reputation as a "reformer."
I also think that McCain's not properly vetting this very strange person, Sarah Palin, is going to bite him on the ass bigtime.
This is about a woman's right to not only choose whether to reproduce, but her absolute right to get facual, unbiased information on all matters of sexuality, reproduction and contraception wheever she begins to consider acting on her own sexuality. Add to this the right to know solid science and real medicine when she puts herself at risk of an STD or worse yet, HIV/AIDS.
Sarah Palin is the poster child of the movement that would deny our sisters, daughters and friends these rights. Hell, her life seems to be an illustration of what can go wrong when one clings to willful ignorance and fundamentalist syllopism. She seems more and more like a trashy sitcom from the WB or FOX. To remain silent about these issues is to encourage more of the same, and that is killing and harming untold numbers among us.
If she was a private person, I say, let her be. But she is on the verge of being nominated V.P., one election away from being V.P. and one fatal illness away from possibly being President.
and we can't discuss this topic of sex in 2008?
PLEASE.......
This woman is sly like a fox.....
And McCain never really met her until yesterday.. amazing how desperate the Republicans are.
But others ARE comfortable!
Look they have the new McCainPulin ad!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_5mxw-sYc_F0/SLmZO-u30...
Obama and we are going to have megaFUN on the way to a Democratic Presidential victory!
I think a real focus on her should be her image of a reformer and a person of ethics and integrity when on first glance she seems to be just more of the same and seems to learned well from her republican masters.
On another note I heard on CNN today someone being interviewed in the RNC ( I was in the car ) who said "why should we care who he picks for his VP - the VP is traditionally a ceremonial position"
I yelled at the top of my lungs at the car radio ...'Where the F-uck were you for the past 7 years !"
1) Yes, she made a mistake and had sex before marriage, but accepted responsibility, got married, and had the baby (i.e. didn't abort). And she was discreet and decent enough not to want a regular church wedding or, since she had sinned, a white wedding gown (which would have been in bad taste).
2) She found Jesus, saw the light, repented for her sin, and was forgiven. Now she wants to help all young girls recognize the sinfulness and risks inherent in premarital sex and the virtues of chastity. In other words, abstinance for all.
3) Her marriage is so successful, solid, and loving that she and her husband went on to have 4 more beautiful children. And she doesn't even use birth control so she even had a late pregnancy, but lovingly accepted the result.
So John, it might not do any good to focus on this aspect.
The very people who would likely respond to your three points, are almost exactly the same pepple who would never vote for Obama/Biden in 2008. No way, no how. Questioning Palin's judgement, personal life choices, and overt cases of hypocrisy is a tactic in a strategy aimed at minimizing the GOP effort to make this woman out to be an attractive MOTHER COURAGE figure to the independent, less fanatical women and men out there. McCain's campaign is alreay softening the ground to argue that she is the best Eliza Dolittle out there for on-the-job training. Plucky, salt-of-the-earth, fearless and a quick study with a good heart. We need to reveal her to be more like Tonya Harding than Audry Hepburn.
My question, whether or not her first son was conceived before she married, is how is she going to be able to give her 4-month-old special-needs baby all the nurturing and maternal care he needs while she's on the campaign trail, with all the energy, stress, study, and traveling it entails? This was not the time of her life to accept a position like this (apart from the fact that she should have had the integrity to recognize her limitations as far as her qualifications and experience are concerned; and McCain should have had the decency and delicacy not to even ask her).
All this sharply focuses my mind on Obama's central strength. His ambition is filtered through an amazing thoughtful and intelligent gift of good judgment. Unlike Bush or McCain, its not a matter of simply acting decisively and impulsively to the pronouncements of one's gut. What we call "gut" in their cases is too nebulous to depend upon. Obama's judgment seems far more solid, more reality-based. In contrast to what we are fearing about Palin and her newbie son, Obama seems to have worked out an effective arrangement with his own daughters through the help of his wife and her own village circle made up of Michelle's own mother, various aunties and others. And we can go on and on about what Joe Biden has done to be with his children when they needed him. Obama may lack a depth of experience, but, Gods and Goddesses willing, the American people will see that he gets it right when it counts.
Larry Hernandez (Upland Oddball)
----- Original Message -----
From: Disqus<mailto:>
To: uplandgreen@msn.com<mailto:uplandgreen@msn.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 2:31 PM
Subject: [americablog] Re: Sarah Palin and children conceived out of wedlock -an uncomfortable question needs to be posed
http://www.mahalo.com/Sarah_Palin_Pregnancy_Rumors
THEY = McCain and his minions
okay, ignore that rumor for a bit.
how does the religious right feel about a new mother staying away from her children when they need them? developmental years and all... her youngest has Downs Syndrome and will need all of her attention.
how does the religious right feel about that? will she institutionalize Trig? let her husband worry about bringing up the kids for the next four years?
how does that sit well with the religious right?
Ignore it or denigrate those who question the entirety of it and put it to bed (until November of course).
Wonder why she wants him on the front lines?
Hypocrisy has done this to the GOP, not us.
I support Obama too, but I still think that Mark Foley should have been cited for sucking off the children. Don't you?
The religious right said nothing....AGAIN!
this is not going to accomplish anything constructive but make our side look
like mud throwers. I could certainly be wrong though. And when I first replied
the April 20th date had not been uncovered yet. I would have felt better about
the initial article if you had known when the kid was actually born. Let's be
honest here, Dobson etc. are not going to turn on her for this. No way no how.
All it will do is make her a martyr in my opinion.
In answer, yes her water broke while in Texas.
http://www.celebrity-babies.com/2008/04/alaskan...
I personally don't know of ANY other woman who ever had her water break, finish a meeting, fly back to another state, deliver her child and then go to work the next day. Sounds like super-unbelievable-woman to me.
how about pictures of her daughter during sarah's 8th-9th month? oh, that's right, she had Mono so... not in public for photo-ops with the family.
did she go on any roller-coasters, ride a mechanical bull... or maybe partake skydiving as well while in Texas?
I REALLY think someone should ask dobson et. al. how they feel about a new mother with a special needs baby taking on the challenge of VP... and possibly President.
The religious right doesn't like women outside the home when they have a 'family'... what about a new baby?
they're constantly saying children need "both a mother and a father"... how is this going to be possible?
Palin's daughter Bristol supposedly stayed out of school for several months during the past school year, citing a case of mononeucleosis to explain her absence.
Is it normal to allow a child with mono around a pregnant woman?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/30/121350/...
Maybe the youngest isn't her son but her grandson...More concerns with the abbreviated vetting -- she's going to make Eagleton look like a brilliant VP choice.
I lived there a while in Wasilla. When folks ask me to describe Alaskans I tell them:
Most of them seem to be folks who left Alabama because they thought that law against marrying your sister was WAY to strict.
These kinds of 'problems' are only used to point out the 'horrors' of the non-believers to the true-believers
Oh my GOD.
POEHLER BEAR.
I am a comedy genius.
I'm betting she stayed in the same home and mono was the cover-up.
In 1988 Gov. Michael Dukakis was asked by Bernard Shaw at a debate, "Governor, if Kitty Dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death penalty for the killer?"
Dukakis replied, "No, I don't, and I think you know that I've opposed the death penalty during all of my life."
This question was very coarse and the response turned many people off to Dukakis.
Someone needs to give Gov. Wire Hanger Palin a Dukakis-style, Willie Horton moment in 2008: "Governor Palin, if your youngest daughter with down's syndrome was beaten, raped, and became pregnant as a young girl of 12 (and the pregnancy gravely endangered her life) would you refuse to let her get a abortion and just let her die from the effects of the pregnancy to support your pro-life beliefs?
them report it. Nor did I hear Hannity bring it up in his so called "interview" of her. Infact when I
think about it I really did not hear the mainstream reports about Sarah's pregnancy either!
This is barely more than 24 hours after the announcement of her candidacy and you have uncovered this. Leads me to wonder what else is out there about Sarah Palin?
I do, however, think Daddy Dobson should be skewered with this question.
or---
Sarah Palin is a member of the Talibangelical movement. She believes she is a soldier in an army to force Americans to worship God the way she worships via Presidential or Executive fiat. Its as extreme, and dangerous to the American way of life, as the Taliban muslim movement...
Examples like the above actually penetrate the mental fog of some Republicans. One has to always remember most of them pulled the lever TWICE for a man they wanted to drink beer with! They have ZERO judgment and make their decisions based on emotion rather than logic.
Well now, isn't that cute as I "met" Alan about 16-17years ago. Alan, since you just might be watching, HELLO THERE!
It doesn't matter if they've had children out of wedlock, done abortions, had homosexual sex or even if they're pedophiles as long as they're "saved" and all is forgiven now. They actually eat that shit up, since it makes them feel that a politician is "one of them" because he or she has "overcome" their sins.
There's no logic to the way that religious wingnuts think.
With Palin, her record on issues and lack of experience, along with McCain's age and other issues, will probably give more independent-leaning and more rational "values voters" tipping towards the Dems or staying home. But there's always going to be a good percentage that would vote for Charles Manson if he paraded around carrying a cross and said he was against abortion.
she's gonna have to be proven a secretly muslim lesbian to make the religious wingers stay home.
in Trig's case, she would be lying to cover up a daughter's mistake, having followed in the mother's footsteps. palin would be seen as being a parent trying to help her daughter live a regular life. but it would be lying to the public, because she said Trig is her child.
what I want to know is are there photos of how she looked pregnant with the other four kids who are not in question. if she's showing with them, there's no reason, especially with her age, for not showing if she was ever indeed pregnant with Trig.
For example, when the insurance company was billed for doctors' visits, prenatal testing, etc. --- who was the patient/mother? And who is the mother listed on the birth certificate?
If the Guv is listed on insurance and birth cert docs, but this baby was actually the daughter's -- hasn't the Guv broken some laws???
This might be more than salacious rumor-mongering -- it might end up being criminal. That is -- IF the baby is actually the daughter's.
The baby belongs to Bristol and it has Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. Sarah is just a shitty mother.
And 'Truck'? WTF?
Wake up America!
Sorry, but there is no way this woman has abstained from birth control and now only has five children. Sorry, I absolutely do not believe that and no one else should either. Women with political ambitions like hers do not take chances like that. My mother used three different types of birth control and still had four children, three in consecutive years. If Palin never used birth control she'd be like Mrs. Duggar.
I hope people continue to dig into the truth regarding whether the older child really belongs to the daughter. John, I hope you are able to continue doing what you are doing today. So many lives are at stake here, and so many have been lost. I remember when the U.S. first invaded Iraq, and Riverbend had her blog, and she was aghast that no one was trying to stop the U.S. and she asked "Where is the world?" in wondering how it was allowed to happen. You are doing the right thing. People who tell you otherwise are incurably naive and there are lives at stake if McCain gains the presidency.
As MarshSA noted term pregnancies are actually 37-42 weeks. That leave 3 weeks between DOC (date of conception) and eloping. Assuming she has a 28 day cycle (which can vary, my wife is 40 days), that would leave those 3 weeks to find she's pregnant and eloping.
Possible (major) hole in your theory:
-What if Track was born premature? With modern medical technology & practices babies can survive despite being weeks premature. They just need to spend time in a Neonatal ICU under close care. As MarshSA pointed out, you'll need to find out Track's birth weight.
While I agree that hypocracy should be exposed always, remember she was young then. If I can forgive Obama his own youthful indescretions, I can give Palin a pass here.
There are many ways to discount Palin as a VP pick. I just don't think this one can hold water. I think her current religious & political views are more meaningful to the Conservatives.
Most conservatives won't care about her first child being born out of wedlock, aside from the Christianists. They'll just see a smiling mother of 5 who currently agrees with everything they believe in.
I just think that there are more powerful reasons, among them her stance on the issues you mentioned, that will lead Moderates & Independents to be concerned about Palin and to not vote McCain. The right won't care about any hypocracy.
Speaking of Palin's babies... there are some trying to piece together whether her last child is actually hers. Hey, it's not my theory, but at least they use actual news articles to make the case: http://rockthetruth.blogspot.com/2008/08/palins...
But even if some enlightened Christians don't care, there are plenty who do, and they are allies of Palin and McSame, so it IS an issue and we should discuss it.
August 29, 1988 to April 20, 1989 is 8 months. Being 4 weeks pregnant at her wedding means she probably didn't even know it. So, she had sex with her fiance. Duh
Social conservatives care about OTHER PEOPLE'S sex lives, not their own. In Palin's case, she didn't abort and she married the baby's father so the theocrats and the religious wrong will be fine with it.
There are real issues about Palin - like her positions on just about every issue you care to name - that justify discussion. This is not necessary.
Just wanted to add that I was kept out of First Grade in 1958 because I had "infectious mononucleosis" - but it was 'only' for something like 3 weeks - NOT 4 months! Was it because I was 6 and not 17? Who knows? Being younger, was I also constitutionally 'stronger' than a 17 year old? Who can say?
I remember them calling it "the kissing disease" but I swear I wasn't participating! I stayed at home while my family came and went, living normal lives. I wasn't quarantined, either. I spent my time on the livingroom sofa watching TV and drinking a lot of ginger ale.
Keep it up, Mr. Aravosis! You are needed!
Just look at the story: A 44-year-old woman is pregnant with her fifth child, who she knows will be born with Down Syndrome. In her eighth month, she flies to a business meeting via commercially scheduled airlines. While at the meeting, her water breaks.
She stays at the meeting, and delivers a half-hour speech. Then she goes to the airport, and makes a trip from Texas to Alaska, involving more than seven hours of flights and one airport layover, for a total of more than nine hours. When she gets to Anchorage, where does this woman, who is a high-risk pregnancy by any definition you can imagine, go?
To the best and closest local hospital? Nope. She has her husband drive her another 45 minutes to some backwoods community hospital, where she delivers a 6 pound, 2 ounce child a month premature.
Come on, John. I realize that you're not familiar with childbirth and the mechanics, or at least I don't think you are. Neither am I. So, just to be sure, I went and asked some of my female friends who are. Every single one of them said that story is a crock. Yet, neither AmericaBlog, nor DailyKos, nor HuffingtonPost, etc., will talk much about this. When they do, the discussion is buried.
I find this phenomenal. Talk about being divorced from the public. The circumstances of Trig Palin's birth has been a fertile ground for gossip and speculation in Alaska since the moment it was announced. John, you were an aide to Ted Stevens. Did they keep you in a cage in Washington, or did you ever go to Alaska? Did you make any connection there? If you did, you'd know what I'm talking about.
So tell me, why is this topic so suddenly taboo on the websites of the left?
HOWEVER... there are some really interesting things surrounding that last child. So far, no one has produced a photo of Sarah Palin where she is really physically showing. The photos of her at the 6-month point really don't show any sign of pregnancy. Her oldest daughter was out of school for 4 to 5 months with a supposed severe case of mono that just happened to last through the pregnancy. Palin didn't actually announce the pregnancy until the 7th month, but how the heck could she hide such a thing especially since she's normally a slender woman?
Now if any of this gets debunked or someone can produce a picture of a very pregnant Sarah Palin during her last pregnancy, I'll dismiss these rumors as nonsense. But until then, something just sounds a bit fishy....
The child is obviously the love child of Sarah Palin and an ET. The normal rules do not apply and only top military and intelligence officers know anything about alien gestation.
Palin could be an alien...part of a deal brokered with the alien species to get one of "them" at the head of the Earth's most powerful government...it is the only reasonable conclusion.
I'm still going to go with my personal rule of thumb.
If it's a republican involved in whiff of scandal time will generally prove that the republican was, indeed, involved in the nefarious situation. Without fail.
This should become a HUGE talking point. No part of Palin's story checks out sufficiently. Palin should be asked to explain this constantly until the truth is revealed. I also feel the same way about McCain, that he should answer whether or not he has been involved in a sexual affair with another woman during the time he has been married to his second wife.
But I'm funny that way.
What are you talking about?
THIS thread has nothing to do with the TRIG Palin question, which is much more significant.
THIS thread goes into detail on a very silly, old story involving no lies.
With TRIG, you have a prospective VP lying about a recent birth, possibly shaming her daughter to hide a pregnancy for her own political benefit, basking in the fake memes of "mother of five", "governing state while giving birth", and bashing the rest of us for our contraception/abortion choices and family values
You moonbats sure make life interesting, you do!
-jwc-
Moral conservatives take a structured, logical approach that follows a consistent path toward a defined objective. This approach is in deep opposition to the aimless moral wanderings of the Godless left. Our values remain rigid and our mercy and forgiveness are reserved for those who are truly contrite.
We expect righteous people to make mistakes, but we also expect them to own their mistakes, demonstrate sincere remorse, indicate that they have learned and grown in wisdom, and make better decisions as they progress in life.
I must also correct your assertion that “(Palin) was chosen because the dems passed on a woman and the republicans decided to try to exploit that. Whether they admit it or not it IS the case.” Ha, ha, ha…this IS the case…you arrogant ass…you are obviously ignorant of the very strong female leadership positons that Mcain has consistently supported: Carly Fiorina is a top aide and was on the short list of VP candidates as is you Meg Whitman. Your gripe seems to be against the GOP and their poor record of according power to women – please reply with a female Democrat that has enjoyed the power and prestige of Condi Rice…and while we stoop to playing the disadvantaged card….name a negro that has enjoyed the power and prestige of Colin Powell. Reply…I dare you…and then stop wasting our time with your ignorant ranting.. Stick to the facts man, the record speaks for itself.
All current members of the Congressional Black Caucus are Democrats. This article talks about the 5 most influential African Americans in the Clinton Administration: http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:dgYeryBVT-...
Also, I agree that I don't care whether Sara Palin had premarital sex or not, but if she did, the fact that she is advocating abstinence does make her seem a bit hypocritical. To tell you the truth, she reminds me a lot of Bush, someone who isn't knowledgeable enough to lead America. Did anyone hear her statement about Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac being too costly for the taxpayers, making it clear that she did not realize that those are both private entities? Read #2 in this article: http://www.alternet.org/election08/98228/8_more...
I had my first child, a son, after being married for 3 years. He arrived 6 weeks early but still weighed over 6 lbs. and came home after 4 days. My second child, a girl, was born 5 weeks early--also 6 lbs. My third child, a son, was born 4 weeks early and at 7 lbs. You get the picture. My 4 th child was only 3 weeks early but 8 lbs. My OB said every woman is different and some have much shorter gestations. He couldn't explain it but sees it quite often. None of my kids were termed "preemie" because their lungs were mature.
Go down to the estimated due date and put in April 20, 2009. It will then tell you that as of today's date, September 2, you are 7 weeks one day pregnant. This means she was approximately SIX weeks (plus a day or more) pregnant when they eloped, not one month. if Track was born on his due date. BTW, first time mothers are more likely to go past their due dates rather than the other way around if the mother is healthy.
This is about right, a woman misses her period then at six weeks in 1988 was the earliest possible time to be tested for pregnancy . They eloped, that is NOT the issue.
What is important is that this woman thinks that marriage even for her own seventeen year old daughter impregnated by a self-described f--g redneck now eighteen year old is the best option in these cases. Furthermore she is for abstinence (obviously didn't work in either one of these cases-like mother like daughter), no sex education, over-turning Roe V. Wade.
Palin was not chosen because she is a woman, she was chosen because she is the RIGHT woman to appeal to the anti-abortion Evangelical right, the precise crowd that wasn't happy with McCain.
If she remains on the ticket she will bring that voting block out in droves. McCain already received a surge in campaign donations with her nomination. The fact that she has NO foreign policy experience makes no difference whatsoever because the anti-abortion crowd have over-turning Roe v. Wade at the TOP of their list.
By the way, Time had an interesting article that she brought abortion into her MAYORAL campaign.
Yesterday she trotted out her 5 month pregnant seventeen year old daughter who is doing the "right thing" in these people's minds, now she can say the same for herself.
However, Sarah Palin has NO RIGHT telling others what they can and cannot do in similar cases but it is obvious it is at the top of her agenda. "Abstinence hypocrite" or not. (remember, there's the "none are perfect" fall back ALWAYS)
Think about it and perhaps it will become more clear to you. Hopefully you too can learn and grow.
The moral compass of the right is a guide that we try our best to follow...we often fail but we dust ourselves off and resume our moral course. Our aim is true, our values do not change. When we err, we own our mistakes and try to resume the moral path in spite of our mistakes.
You who wander aimlessly, lacking a moral standard will never understand our intentional course nor can you understand the bond that we share with each other. We steer a rightous path littered with human err and weakness of will...and obstructed by the morally lost that either blindly wander in our way or interntionally obstruct us...out of jealously, contempt, or misguided judgement and ignorance.
We will stay the course...we will live and die by our convictions, and when the offender is contrite, we will continue to forgive each other.
Palin was married (eloped) on August 29, 1988. Her eldest son Track was born on April 20, 1989. The human gestation period is 40 weeks (not 38). If Palin got pregnant on her wedding night AND the pregnancy went full-term Track would have been born in early June, 1989. He could have been a preemy (44 days early), but he would have had a very low birth weight. What did he weigh? How long was he in the hospital? Answers to these questions would provide additional clues. But add the elopement into the mix and it becomes pretty obvious that she was pregnant when she married. Would an ex-beauty queen forego a lavish wedding with a fancy dress and the chance to be queen for the day, etc.? I don't think so. Personally I don't care if she conceived 10 kids before she was married - but the hypocrisy is infuriating for a number of reasons.
So givng Palin the benefit of the doubt that she conceived on the exact night of her elopement August 29, 1988, her LMP would have been approximately 8/15. Subtract three months and you are left with 5/15. Add a week and the due date would have been 5/22. And since most first time moms go over by about a week, well....you do the math. Our 'little miss abstinence" was more likely than not, knocked up by the time she eloped. She is a hypocrite and she is just an average person like everybody else, and average people have sex. Married or not. Sex is a drive. A biological function that ensures survival of the species. Clearly she herself didn't practice abstinence, nor did her daughter who presumably was raised from the cradle to practice "abstinence" only. For God's sake lady, teach both birth control and abstinence. Your daughter is not a slut nor a paragon of virtue. She is a person with a real sex drive and had she had access to birth control, maybe she wouldn't be in this predicament. Once peple in this country stop attributing judgment and shame to a biological function (like breathing, eating and urinating, sex is something we all do) we will be a lot better off.
Whether or not Ms. Palin "had to get married" is no one's business. The valid point is that she chose to marry and she chose to continue her pregnancy. The operative word is CHOSE. She had a choice, a legal and safe choice. Her daughter at age 17 also has a choice. However, Ms Palin promotes adoption as a preferable choice. Is it her daughter's choice to marry at 17 and become a mother? That is her business however, once again the operative word is CHOICE. Ms. Sarah Palin has established the position to remove choice from all females in the United States based upon her own religious belief.
Regarding her experience to become the person one heartbeat away from a 72 year old President with a history of melanoma -- The story of the Emperor's New Clothes comes to mind. Keep saying it and saying it and the gullible portion of this country will begin to admire those new clothes even though the Emperor is stark naked!