AMERICAblog: Senate to vote on financial rescue plan on Wed.
houstonray
· 1 year ago
If it gets voted down again, McCain will have to rush with Sarah back to Washington and postpone the debate....
I'm just sayin'
mmedefarge
· 1 year ago
I heard that the vote is in the evening. I guess that they want another day for the markets to "recover".
tbhull
· 1 year ago
Please let this dead bailout bill remain dead. The people have spoken and this dog will simply not hunt in current form. Come up with something else.
CNBC and the suddenly government dependent Wall Street welfare mommas are so determined to get some government cheese. It is as if this sloppily thrown together crap legislation has become a categorical imperative and no other solutions are possible. Please, get on with your fucking life and get back to work.
Oh let me guess the situation is remains "dire". These dipshits are worse than the boy who cried wolf. The have cried wolf at least ten times since two weeks ago that the end is tomomrrow unless they get trillions of taxpayer money but everything goes on.
John Aravosis
· 1 year ago
You are aware that credit no longer exists in America? This is hardly the boy who cried wolf.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
This bill will not get credit moving,
The money is out there to relieve the stress of these toxic assets,it is just that the compnies holding the crap would prefer to get money on easy terms from the government compared to letting the market give them a greater haircut, much in the same way a welfare momma would rather eat government cheese for free rather than work for a meal.
An_American_Karol
· 1 year ago
You have no idea what you're talking about. You're talking 1980 Republican speak.
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 1 year ago
The throw away line about a welfare momma is just insulting , reprehensible and racist..
tbhull
· 1 year ago
I knew many fundie crackers in the south that were addicted to gubment cheese.
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 1 year ago
Oh that is so much more of an open minded statement.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
An individual capable of earning a living and feeding themselves that decides to do nothing and dine on government cheese is despicable and a leach, whether they be white, brown, yellow, black, pink or green. Likewise it does not matter whether they reside in Chicago or Mussel Shoals.
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 1 year ago
I haven't heard the MYTH of the welfare mother since Reagan was still able to think and speak. We may all be wanting some of your cheese pretty soon. I really is not that good tasting.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
You do not hear it much anyore because Bill Clinton very effectively reformed welfare.
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 1 year ago
That being the case, your bringing up the specter of so-called welfare mothers is a cheap shot. I will tell you what I told people in the 80's. A person cannot raise and care for a family on the pittance they receive on welfare. All it does is keep you from starving. And as far as welfare cheese. The only people that get commodities anymore are the elderly, native Americans and schools.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
Also, I would wager I am older than most here and/or have a good memory of past political hot buttons.
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 1 year ago
Experience vs vision? I think you are projecting by saying you are older than most here. There is no way of knowing that.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
Of course I do not know, I just said I would wager. I could lose that wager.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
No, this is a currently a market problem with a market solution to unwind. Non-government cash has not disappeared. It is willing to take the toxic assets off the books of companies holding this garbage and loosen the credit situation to some degree, but those suffering from asset toxicity want the easy money handed out by the government.
If this money is handed out by government, then no lessons learned and we will be here again and again all while the value of the dollar craters, inflation willb be insane and taxes will be out of control.
I am all for regulation. But this monster is too big now because of past regulatory failures. On a foward looking basis, the government regulators need to dig in deep to ensure this does not happen again. If CDOs, CMOs, swaps and derivtatives were propoerly regulated in the ,ast eight years we would not be here. But we are and govern,ent throwing money at a mutlti multi trillion dollar problem will do very little or nothing but grease the palms and poickets of those at the top of the money chain that got us here in the first place and will only solidify the likelihood that they will do it again in the future to have the taxpayer bail them out again.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
As far as credit is co ncerned, it needs to tighten. Loose credit standards is a component of our current dilemna. The economy needs to simply get off the credit addiction to some degree and yes it will require painful adjustments at all levels.
dad
· 1 year ago
all due respect. it is exactly the conclusion to that tale.
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 1 year ago
Thank you John. Most people are just angry and do not see the consequences. Businesses run on a line of credit. An amount of borrowed money they can tap into when needed. Some months sales and profits are real good. You make enough profit to cover expenses, outlays, emergencies, and most important to your workers, PAYROLL. Some months like this one, sales are down, expenses are up, so you tap into the line of credit to cover all or part of your monthly expenses, PAYROLL for instance. When banks are no longer willing to lend you more money, you cannot make your PAYROLL. People get laid off, you cannot by materials, you cannot pay your bills. If it goes on long enough, you go bankrupt. If this happens to a lot of businesses it is a recession. If lots and lots of businesses do this it is called a depression. People are jobless, homeless and hungry.
dad
· 1 year ago
Fireblazes, I do understand this.
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 1 year ago
Good, but so many do not. Theye just wants to punish"rich" people. When the only people being punished are us. Do any of you really believe that the rich could give a shit about losing a few million. How much would Buffet have to lose? How about Bill Gates? How about that exec that got a 120 million payout? They could lose 99% of their money and still be rich. If you lose that much how are you going to fair?
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 1 year ago
I hope it passes. I personally would like to get paid next payday. Maybe some of you don't need paychecks like most Americans.
An_American_Karol
· 1 year ago
I hope they come to some agreement soon. People are hurting at the expense of politics and "feelings". I don't trust Bush or Congress at this point, but we do have a big problem.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
Unless you work for Golman Sach or JP Morgan, what possibly makes you think this bill will ensure a paycheck?
An_American_Karol
· 1 year ago
We have regulars on this blog alone who have lost their jobs this week, tbhull.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
I understand, but the failure to pass this bill will not solve that problem. Another bill is in order.
What makes folks think anything has changed in the House? They voted it down. We need help, but this bill is not the answer.
An_American_Karol
· 1 year ago
Just fix this one. why have another?
naschkatzehussein
· 1 year ago
OR Dem Rep Peter DeFazio is supposed to have a plan that saves the taxpayer a lot of money, but I haven't seen the details yet. I wonder if he will get heard. And in the meantime I saw a little thing over at FDL which says the Senate version has some pork to it. As if we need that.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
I watched DeFazio on C-Span yesterday. I was impressed. The dems need more level headed leaders like him.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
How is this one fixed?
What about the government capitalizing these corporations and immediately taking a superior debt positions to all other debtohlders?
The difficult balance is that so many folks have their retirement noney in the stock of companies that are insolvent.
Those invested in the companies are pitted against those employed by these same companies. In reality, if these companies are going to survive their shareholders and perhaps their debt holders (See Washuington Mutual and AIG) will have to get wiped out if the new capital necessary to keep these entities afloat.
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 1 year ago
Because if this bill passes the banks will start lending lines of credit again.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
Why do you think this? If they do for how long will this last?
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 1 year ago
Most people are just angry and do not see the consequences. Businesses run on a line of credit. An amount of borrowed money they can tap into when needed. Some months sales and profits are real good. You make enough profit to cover expenses, outlays, emergencies, and most important to your workers, PAYROLL. Some months like this one, sales are down, expenses are up, so you tap into the line of credit to cover all or part of your monthly expenses, PAYROLL for instance. When banks are no longer willing to lend you more money, you cannot make your PAYROLL. People get laid off, you cannot by materials, you cannot pay your bills. If it goes on long enough, you go bankrupt. If this happens to a lot of businesses it is a recession. If lots and lots of businesses do this it is called a depression. People are jobless, homeless and hungry. You ask endless questions, but refuse to listen.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
I understand how businesses and run and the result of credit tightening up. The questions posed are rather simple, why does this plan ensure that credit will ease and evereythinf will be ok? The taxpayer's future toils cannot be drawn on every time credit tightens. If a business cannot fund its operations then it needs to change its model.
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 1 year ago
I agree, but everybody uses this model. It has worked well for years, but now it stopped working. Right now there is no alternative. I am sure once past this phase, many will be looking for an alternate paradigm.
Wild_Weasel
· 1 year ago
The DEAL should include a requirement to form a large diverse independent commission to study the entire mess, and make comprehensive recommendations.
For example, one of the shakier parts of Wall Street are the swaps and derivatives that in some cases are so complex that even the sales persons don't completely understand them.
Regulations are needed, but before you regulate, you must understand the system. The full system, from the real estate appraisers who inflated home prices, to the real estate agents and brokers who sold the homes, to the bankers who sold mortgage instruments to people with no probability of repaying the loans, to Wall Street fat cats who bought those loans, packaged them, sliced and diced them, and sold them to unsophisticated buyers, to the rating agencies who gave high rating to crap. Top to bottom, the Commission needs to look at it all.
bill__free
· 1 year ago
Off Subject but, let's say if Palin bombs in the debate and it is necessary to remove her from the ticket or she resigns. What happens to the early votes that were cast for McCain/Palin? Is McCain stuck with her now? How would they get the states to issue new ballots?
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 1 year ago
The President and VP are elected by the eletoral cllege, and congress. They can fix it however they want.
mccainbush08
· 1 year ago
Celebrate with the lighter side of Meltdown John and the Deregulator of Doom.
In a world gone insolvent, an unstoppable force travels from our past to destroy our future. He is . . . The Deregulator.
We can't keep going with a credit freeze in place so something has to give. This is not empire-building here, this is desperate measures. I'm pretty sure it won't hold for more than 6 months but by then, some smarter resolution may have been worked out.
I'm surprised the powers-that-be have promised to work on Wednesday. That's fast for the Congressional workers. Thursday would have been good enough. They have to show due haste because of the publicity that surrounds this issue. There really is no reason to hurry now, the horse got out and the barn burned down so closing the door doesn't make all that much difference but it helps morale.
The necessary bottom line is much easier to understand but much more difficult to implement: Re-Regulation! Anything less is chewing gum on a crack in the dam.
Bush_Bites
· 1 year ago
I thought McCain was going to suspend his campaign until he fixes it?
And, come to think of it, why doesn't he talk about being a Georgian anymore either?
MarxMarvelous
· 1 year ago
Obama thinks the taxpayers should sit this one out. What a great American! Ignore the 1000-1 opposition. He's a fraud, encouraging the status quo, owned by special interests. And now they're working the kids....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW9b0xr06qA ---read the comments
bumpkis
· 1 year ago
I suspect that while some sweeteners have been added, the language basically remains the same, ie, riff with ambiguous contingencies that rely on banks and lenders to regulate themselves...
To that I say....JUMP FUCKERS.
dad
· 1 year ago
i'm tired of being lied to. i'm tired of paying for republican failure. a trillion for the lie in Iraq. a trillion, trillion and a half (who kows) for all these bailouts. republican failure costs US too much.
i am tired of being crushed.
put in some real regulation. bring some of these thieves to justice. convince me this is not just another transfer of wealth upward to the same turds that made this - this.
i know something needs to be done. just convince me it is going to be used responsibly. i have no faith in this government anymore. there is no reason i should.
I'm still unsure this will do anything to help when there are $400 trillion in credit swaps out there. Can't we just make fun of Palin and not have to deal with this :)
``I suspect that part of what we're seeing in the freezing up of lending markets is strategic behavior on the part of big financial players who stand to benefit from the bailout,'' said David K. Levine, an economist at Washington University in St. Louis, who studies liquidity constraints and game theory.
The unregulated debt and derivative market has leveraged debt bets at mutiples of 30 to 1. The existing credit default swap/derivative market stands at $760 trillion worldwide. These instruments have to be unwound to free up balance sheets or reveal those that woill surely fail. The $700,000,000,000 or $1,800,000,000,0000 bailout price tag is the first installnment among many, and represents a mere drop in the bucket.
The credit default swaps AIG wrote on Lehman sunk the largest US insurer in a couple of days. Moreover, the cross bets represented by worldwide credit default swaps on AIG, which were enormous, explain why the government has contingent warrants in AIG as opposed to direct superior debt position for the government's $85 billion taxpayer outlay, which outlay the taxpayers will never see again. Most of it went overseas in a matter on mements after passage.
govenrment bailout will not solve a problem of this magnitude.People simply do not unde
devis1
· 1 year ago
The accountants were giving them AAA ratings in August....
tbhull
· 1 year ago
Accountants? Please.
Though intelligent and skilled, accountants, like many other high level slaves at the top of the money chain, they take orders when it comes nut cutting time .
devis1
· 1 year ago
I know... ......means more bulls*^t follows!!
shrrrr
· 1 year ago
Look, the Senate is going to give the House a do-over. And the House should thank God.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
The Senate is giving themselves a chance at embarassing themselves.
Let a new bill get redone in the House. The House started working on a re-do even before Monday's vote when it was clear it was likely to fail. Bills almost always originate in the House.
devis1
· 1 year ago
The end of the month activity by pension funds ( we used to send in estimates for sales before the final numbers came in for payouts) yesterday took a big hit. Thank your deity the corporations all switched to 401(k) plans so the employees are taking the bulk of the hit. Today the speculators were shopping. Up and down and around we go.
devis1
· 1 year ago
Dear Wall Street,
Hi, this is the lobbyist for a group called The Taxpayers, Debtors, and Insured People of the United States. Now that we've rejected the first bailout plan, I'm sure that in the spirit of tough, free market capitalism, and spirited negotiations, you'll consider our second offer. Here are some terms that I'm SURE you will find reasonable:
1) We are willing to loan you money at a very low, introductory rate of 8.9%. If you are even one nanosecond late on your payment, your rate will go from 8.9% to 32.9% instantly. You will have no right to appeal this. The interest rate increase will be retroactive. None of this "but I mailed it out Friday" nonsense. We must get it, and the check must clear, for your payment to count. A reminder: transactions that occur after 2pm are not credited until the next business day, so be sure to make your payments before then.
2) If you are late on any of your other payments to your other creditors, your rate will also be spiked to 32.9%. I know it has nothing to do with us, but if you are late paying someone else, then OBVIOUSLY you are a bigger credit risk to us.
3) We will send you onerous terms and conditions 148,000,000 pages long in 6 point font. Of course, those terms can change on a whim, at any time,....
We are the ones that are stuck with the dollar. If the dollar goes down, so do we, the American Public.
The rich probably have transfered some of their dollars into euros or yens or whatever at this time has a higher rate than the dollar. They are secure no matter what the U.S. Stock Market shows.
All Comments
I'm just sayin'
CNBC and the suddenly government dependent Wall Street welfare mommas are so determined to get some government cheese. It is as if this sloppily thrown together crap legislation has become a categorical imperative and no other solutions are possible. Please, get on with your fucking life and get back to work.
Oh let me guess the situation is remains "dire". These dipshits are worse than the boy who cried wolf. The have cried wolf at least ten times since two weeks ago that the end is tomomrrow unless they get trillions of taxpayer money but everything goes on.
The money is out there to relieve the stress of these toxic assets,it is just that the compnies holding the crap would prefer to get money on easy terms from the government compared to letting the market give them a greater haircut, much in the same way a welfare momma would rather eat government cheese for free rather than work for a meal.
If this money is handed out by government, then no lessons learned and we will be here again and again all while the value of the dollar craters, inflation willb be insane and taxes will be out of control.
I am all for regulation. But this monster is too big now because of past regulatory failures. On a foward looking basis, the government regulators need to dig in deep to ensure this does not happen again. If CDOs, CMOs, swaps and derivtatives were propoerly regulated in the ,ast eight years we would not be here. But we are and govern,ent throwing money at a mutlti multi trillion dollar problem will do very little or nothing but grease the palms and poickets of those at the top of the money chain that got us here in the first place and will only solidify the likelihood that they will do it again in the future to have the taxpayer bail them out again.
Businesses run on a line of credit. An amount of borrowed money they can tap into when needed. Some months sales and profits are real good. You make enough profit to cover expenses, outlays, emergencies, and most important to your workers, PAYROLL. Some months like this one, sales are down, expenses are up, so you tap into the line of credit to cover all or part of your monthly expenses, PAYROLL for instance. When banks are no longer willing to lend you more money, you cannot make your PAYROLL. People get laid off, you cannot by materials, you cannot pay your bills. If it goes on long enough, you go bankrupt. If this happens to a lot of businesses it is a recession. If lots and lots of businesses do this it is called a depression. People are jobless, homeless and hungry.
I don't trust Bush or Congress at this point, but we do have a big problem.
What makes folks think anything has changed in the House? They voted it down. We need help, but this bill is not the answer.
What about the government capitalizing these corporations and immediately taking a superior debt positions to all other debtohlders?
The difficult balance is that so many folks have their retirement noney in the stock of companies that are insolvent.
Those invested in the companies are pitted against those employed by these same companies. In reality, if these companies are going to survive their shareholders and perhaps their debt holders (See Washuington Mutual and AIG) will have to get wiped out if the new capital necessary to keep these entities afloat.
Businesses run on a line of credit. An amount of borrowed money they can tap into when needed. Some months sales and profits are real good. You make enough profit to cover expenses, outlays, emergencies, and most important to your workers, PAYROLL. Some months like this one, sales are down, expenses are up, so you tap into the line of credit to cover all or part of your monthly expenses, PAYROLL for instance. When banks are no longer willing to lend you more money, you cannot make your PAYROLL. People get laid off, you cannot by materials, you cannot pay your bills. If it goes on long enough, you go bankrupt. If this happens to a lot of businesses it is a recession. If lots and lots of businesses do this it is called a depression. People are jobless, homeless and hungry.
You ask endless questions, but refuse to listen.
now it stopped working. Right now there is no alternative. I am sure once
past this phase, many will be looking for an alternate paradigm.
For example, one of the shakier parts of Wall Street are the swaps and derivatives that in some cases are so complex that even the sales persons don't completely understand them.
Regulations are needed, but before you regulate, you must understand the system. The full system, from the real estate appraisers who inflated home prices, to the real estate agents and brokers who sold the homes, to the bankers who sold mortgage instruments to people with no probability of repaying the loans, to Wall Street fat cats who bought those loans, packaged them, sliced and diced them, and sold them to unsophisticated buyers, to the rating agencies who gave high rating to crap. Top to bottom, the Commission needs to look at it all.
In a world gone insolvent, an unstoppable force travels from our past to destroy our future. He is . . . The Deregulator.
http://snipurl.com/3xln8
Then kick back and enjoy America’s least favorite reality game show: Drop the Regulations!
http://snipurl.com/3xlop
smells to me.
I'm surprised the powers-that-be have promised to work on Wednesday. That's fast for the Congressional workers. Thursday would have been good enough. They have to show due haste because of the publicity that surrounds this issue. There really is no reason to hurry now, the horse got out and the barn burned down so closing the door doesn't make all that much difference but it helps morale.
The necessary bottom line is much easier to understand but much more difficult to implement: Re-Regulation! Anything less is chewing gum on a crack in the dam.
And, come to think of it, why doesn't he talk about being a Georgian anymore either?
And now they're working the kids....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW9b0xr06qA ---read the comments
To that I say....JUMP FUCKERS.
i am tired of being crushed.
put in some real regulation. bring some of these thieves to justice. convince me this is not just another transfer of wealth upward to the same turds that made this - this.
i know something needs to be done. just convince me it is going to be used responsibly. i have no faith in this government anymore. there is no reason i should.
i am owed an explanation.
lots of good ideas there :-)
And never give in to despair!
``I suspect that part of what we're seeing in the freezing up of lending markets is strategic behavior on the part of big financial players who stand to benefit from the bailout,'' said David K. Levine, an economist at Washington University in St. Louis, who studies liquidity constraints and game theory.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087...
The unregulated debt and derivative market has leveraged debt bets at mutiples of 30 to 1. The existing credit default swap/derivative market stands at $760 trillion worldwide. These instruments have to be unwound to free up balance sheets or reveal those that woill surely fail. The $700,000,000,000 or $1,800,000,000,0000 bailout price tag is the first installnment among many, and represents a mere drop in the bucket.
The credit default swaps AIG wrote on Lehman sunk the largest US insurer in a couple of days. Moreover, the cross bets represented by worldwide credit default swaps on AIG, which were enormous, explain why the government has contingent warrants in AIG as opposed to direct superior debt position for the government's $85 billion taxpayer outlay, which outlay the taxpayers will never see again. Most of it went overseas in a matter on mements after passage.
govenrment bailout will not solve a problem of this magnitude.People simply do not unde
Though intelligent and skilled, accountants, like many other high level slaves at the top of the money chain, they take orders when it comes nut cutting time .
......means more bulls*^t follows!!
And the House should thank God.
Let a new bill get redone in the House. The House started working on a re-do even before Monday's vote when it was clear it was likely to fail. Bills almost always originate in the House.
Hi, this is the lobbyist for a group called The Taxpayers, Debtors, and Insured People of the United States. Now that we've rejected the first bailout plan, I'm sure that in the spirit of tough, free market capitalism, and spirited negotiations, you'll consider our second offer. Here are some terms that I'm SURE you will find reasonable:
1) We are willing to loan you money at a very low, introductory rate of 8.9%. If you are even one nanosecond late on your payment, your rate will go from 8.9% to 32.9% instantly. You will have no right to appeal this. The interest rate increase will be retroactive. None of this "but I mailed it out Friday" nonsense. We must get it, and the check must clear, for your payment to count. A reminder: transactions that occur after 2pm are not credited until the next business day, so be sure to make your payments before then.
2) If you are late on any of your other payments to your other creditors, your rate will also be spiked to 32.9%. I know it has nothing to do with us, but if you are late paying someone else, then OBVIOUSLY you are a bigger credit risk to us.
3) We will send you onerous terms and conditions 148,000,000 pages long in 6 point font. Of course, those terms can change on a whim, at any time,....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/du...
The rich probably have transfered some of their dollars into euros or yens or whatever at this time has a higher rate than the dollar. They are secure no matter what the U.S. Stock Market shows.