AMERICAblog: So Lehman collapsed but "key players" to get $2.5 BILLION in bonuses
Doug_in_OC
· 1 year ago
I would recommend everyone watch or read the transcript of this weeks bill moyers journal. http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/09192008/prof... It was very informative as always. The final segment regarding Yankee stadium old vs new was awesome. By the way the old one was built right before the Great Depression. Well Anyway... keep up the good work.
grandma
· 1 year ago
Thanks for the link....I only caught a part of the show.
grandma
· 1 year ago
Boehner: Treasury’s Bailout Package Should Only Help Wall Street, Not Main Street
Boehner suggested giving Treasury Secretary Paulson the “powers as quickly as possible.” “There are a lot of well-meaning, well-intentioned ideas out there, but they don’t need to be part of this package,” he said, referring to assistance for average working families.
Boehner needs to wake up if he thinks help for Americans facing foreclosure is unnecessary because of last year’s housing bill. Foreclosure filings last month increased 27 percent compared to the same month a year ago. Homeless advocacy groups are “reporting the most visible rise in homeless encampments in a generation” in part because of rising foreclosures.
Direct relief for the middle-class and Americans struggling to stay in their homes should be a necessary part of the bailout package. Ed Paisely of the Center for American Progress explained
Naomi Klein on Bill Maher this week described it best: 'Cry-baby Capitalism'. Wall Street acts like a bunch of spoiled children, running amok without supervision (at their own insistence) until they scrape their knee (ie- collapse the world economy), then they go crying to mommy for a trillion-dollar bailout.
I thought the 'Invisible Hand of The Free Market' was supposed to take care of all of this? If it's good enough to make us die waiting for affordable health care, it must certainly be good enough to take away their fat bonuses and homes in the Hamptons. (Talk about Regan's 'Welfare Queens'- these guys really are gaming the system to take money from the tax payers and drive away in gold-plated Cadillacs.) Wall Street really is just a bunch of Socialists when it comes right down to it.
AdrianBrowne
· 1 year ago
If they don't like their new salary they should go to work in the really private sector.
devlzadvocate
· 1 year ago
The anger of the confused American public will pass with sedation. Those not sedated will probably blame the wrong people or not get that this was really all part of the "plan". We all know that "nothing is free" and we have heard the cliche that "freedom is not free" and we certainly all know now that the "market" should never have been free. People get the government that they deserve and we got the "Let them eat cake" government.
The entire time we were looking for terrorists abroad, the terrorists were destroying us from within and George W. Bush and republicans LET THEM DO IT!
grandma
· 1 year ago
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. ~Edward R. Murrow
hawkseye
· 1 year ago
Especially sheep who want to be rich, just like the wolves.
Webster
· 1 year ago
This whole "Rush-to-Bailout" scheme is a Bush Administration idea (Fear! Fear! Fear! Act Now!'), and the Democrats are in their usual kow-tow mode.
Something smells very, very, very fishy to me.
Like, all-of-a-sudden everyone is going to trust Bush on this?
What?!
devlzadvocate
· 1 year ago
You mean like everybody trusted him with the Patriot Act???? Yeah, sure. I trust him.
mother_bottom
· 1 year ago
WEBSTER!!!!!
Love and peace and a happy fall season. Most of all, Love.
LawMichigander
· 1 year ago
Now would that 2.5 billion be enough to have kept the company afloat?
truthseeker
· 1 year ago
I'm going to just quit paying my bills and tell my creditors I'm just waiting on my bailout funds. Right...see how long that lasts? God, I hate these f-ers.
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
NO! no billion dollar bonuses for these crooked fuckers. they should be jailed not rewarded.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
Paulson, an unelected official and tried and true "yes" for one of the key failures (Goldman Sachs), has the nerve to tell Congress (in theory the American people) to not include any restirctions on exec compensation or any relief in the bill for homeowners.
Time will tell whether Congress is in bed with these folks thatg have fucked our financial system and now want to continue with us. Congress must not fold and not negoatiate with these vultures., though I am very sketical.
Obama cannot hide on this one very much longer. He needs to come out with a stand based on principle, not a principal.
SarainKC
· 1 year ago
They also want to eliminate any review of the Tres Sec's decisions! No one can question how Paulsen chooses to spend OUR money. In fact, NO reviews are permissable under this bill. Also, the 700 Billion figure is not hard. Meaning it could be 700 Billion one day and another 700 billion the next. It is per incidence or crisis under the sole discretion of the Treasury Secretary with no oversight or review. Nice huh?
naschkatzehussein
· 1 year ago
Someone pointed out at HuffPo that this is unconstitutional. It is Congress which decides spending matters. If they give Paulson these unlimited powers, they are putting themselves out of business.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
Congress really has not been in business for some time.
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
Chris
Nice rant but when has ANYONE in government listened to the American people???? Every Democrat and every Republican needs to take responsibility for this entire fiasco BUT will they, probably not.
Andrew
· 1 year ago
Chris....Without a doubt this move by Treasury, The Federal Reserve and our elected officials is going to be the largest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the richest 1% of the population who can well afford the hit considering the billions they have made in gaming the system for years. When the politicians keep telling us that this must be done or the consequences would be even greater, they are using nothing other than scare tactics ( Schock Doctrine ) to get the American people to go along. There is another way out of this that won't cost us a dime, but I'll tell you why they won't do it. When our country was founded, the fonders very clearly stated in the Constitution that there was to be a US Treasury with coin in both gold and silver. That held for nearly 170 years until in 1913 the Federal reserve or central bank was created and we then went to a fiat system which we have today with trillions of paper dollars with nothing to back them floating around the world. Presently congress which controls weights and measures states that all of the US gold holdings are only worth $42.50 an ounce when the rest of the world says gold is worth $900 and ounce currently. All Congress would have to do is to re-value that gold to the current market price. The Federal Reserve has already used half of its reserves to bali out all of the banks that have failed to date, so why buy them out on the taxpayers back for 700 Billion? Because our wonderful politicians who have grown accustomed to sucking off the teet of the bakers can continue to keep all of us an endentured slaves to a system of continuous debt. Without the Federal Reserve which is nothing but a cartel of private banking concerns, The American people would no longer have to pay outrageous interest rates so that the bakers can get fatter on our hard work and sweat which is not what the founders envisioned. Cut off the head of the hydra known as the Federal reserve and many of our current problems simply disappear. The bailout in its current form doesn't even allow Congress or a court of law to review the process and gives unlimtied power to one man. Paulson, who should have been kicked out of office along with Bernanke because they were well aware of this financial tsunami over a year ago and did nothing to stop it. If any of you reading this have a free moment to contact your congressmen and Senators, thell them that if we truely live in a society that is supposed to have free markets, then DON'T allow them to steamroll this through as the did the Patriot Act in the dark of night. Many in Congress never even read the bill. Time is short everyone, but there is another way. Stop and think about it. Why is our gold only worth $42.50 an ounce when the rest of the world says it is worth far more. The revaluation of of our gold, can buy out the Fed and send them back to hell where they belong. Jefferson knew this. The Republicans under Nixon closed the gold window in 1971, and since that time, the dollar has lost 95% of its value. If you want to continue being a slave to the debt masters do nothing. If your in agreement, get on the phone, write a letter, send an e-mail or fax, but do it now as this proposal will be out of the house this week and then onto the Senate waiting for the signature of the ultimate crook in chief. George W. Bush.
devlzadvocate
· 1 year ago
Transfer of wealth = it's about POWER.
hawkseye
· 1 year ago
Thanks for taking the time to post this. I sent an e-mail to Pelosi this morning, and I hope others do the same---along with calls to all your representatives.
SarainKC
· 1 year ago
Fax your letters- they don't read or tally emails. An avelanche of faxes makes a nice little statement. They are voting on this tomorrow- please don't wait to do your part. Takes less than 10 minutes to fax all your congress and Senate reps.
Here is a sample letter you can use:
Dear Senator XXXXXX:
I am writing in very deep concern over the Wall Street Bailout Act, currently entitled as "LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL FOR TREASURY AUTHORITY TO PURCHASE MORTGAGE-RELATED ASSETS".
This is, to say the least, a deeply troubling bill. Specifically:
There is little to no oversight. Furthermore, section 8 ensures that any oversight is crippled from the start, as it states, and I quote from the text of the act: "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency." The floating amount controlled by the Secretary of the Treasury is $700B is effectively a blank check as there is no hard limit. It appears that the power of the Secretary extends to no-bid contracts. It provides no restoration of the provisions of the Glass-Steagall Act, modernized or otherwise, that were stripped away by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. It does absolutely nothing to change the fundamental problems that led us to this situation. I strongly urge you to vote against this bill. I know that we need to prevent the complete disintegration of our economy, but this is not the solution. This is a blank check to the executive; it is the abdication of the financial powers granted to the legislative branch in Article 1, Section 8 of the constitution.
Sincerely, reply edit record video comment reblog flag 4 /people/SarainKC/ /people/SarainKC/follow/
SarainKC
· 1 year ago
apparently I am too worked up to spell. "Avalanche".
Carry on...
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
This article by James Moore is a treasure trove of opposition research material that should be used by progressives to fight McCain:
"Charles Keating was John McCain's pal. They met in 1981 and Keating dumped $112,000 in the McCain campaign bank accounts between '82 and '87. A year before McCain met with the FHLBB regulators, his wife Cindy and her father, according to newspaper reports at the time, invested about $360,000 in one of Keating's shopping centers. The Arizona Republic reported McCain and his wife and their babysitter took nine trips on Keating's private jet to the Bahamas to stay at the S&L liar's decadent Cat Cay resort. The senator didn't pay Keating back for the plane rides until years later when he was under investigation.
McCain wasn't found guilty of anything but bad judgment, which is an historic understatement. Republicans, who led deregulation of the S&L industry, delayed the bailout until after the 1988 election to make sure George H. W. won the White House. The cost to taxpayers for helping these 747 bad actors in the S&L industry was finally estimated at $1.4 trillion. If the bailout had begun in 1986 instead of after the presidential election, the cost would have been contained at $20 billion. "
No good decisions are made based on fear. Everyone must stop and breathe to carefully consider what is happening. Reason and experience dictate that Congress should not act hastily on this adminstration's hurried requests and Congress should wait until the people have selected a new Congress and new Preisdent until takin passing any legislation.
Today's imminent financial meltdown with unspeakable consequences sounds strikingly familar to yesterday's yellow cake and a resulting Iraq prompted mushroom cloud. One would have though Congrss learned their lesson.
devlzadvocate
· 1 year ago
or taking it another way, the transfer of wealth that will occur with this bill will leave the bulk of our nation's money in the control of few so that when the shit does hit the fan . . . and it will, those wealthy fascists will steamroll right over you and your Congress (recall Cheney's dominant Executive Branch)
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
EXACTLY AND AMEN!
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
One thing that worries me is Republicans usually hide problems of this magnitude until after elections. Think the S&L crisis where they hid everything until Dubya's daddy was elected! This makes me even more fearful it is, indeed, dire but I'm with you! Congress can't afford to just hand the reigns to the same people who brought us the "cake walk in Iraq."
cowboyneok
· 1 year ago
I'm going to go work out at the local YMCA here in Tulsa and try to run off some of my anger and frustration at Republicans! LOL
By the way, I've personally complained to the YMCA here in Tulsa. Their facilities always ALWAYS have their televisions tuned to FOX NEWS as if they want us all to view their propaganda while we work out. Does the YMCA have some kind of partnership with FOX NEWS or is it because I live in Tulsa and the heart of the Talibangelicals that this happens? I'm wondering if its just a local thing? Anyone else notice in other areas of the nation? I always make it a habit of changing the station from FOX to MSNBC but whenever I go to the gym the 40 - 50 televisions are mostly tuned to FOX.
SarainKC
· 1 year ago
I think it's just the morons who work there. I always ask for the remote and change the cahnnels myself. Then I "forget" to give the remote back until I'm done. :)
FightForJustice
· 1 year ago
Ok, I have to go register voters, but I cannot believe that this bill raping the taxpayers will be popular with a lot of Republicans either....my yellow dog Repub family is livid. Remember even a large number of R's are pissed at what Bush has done to this country. . .and have NO FAITH in anything his administration comes up with, and are open to arguement.
We need a viral email to go to everyone on our mailing list no matter their party affiliation. The email needs to be easy to understand with links on how to contact their congressperson and senators...as well as the generic phone numbers to Congress.
John, Joe, Chris..can someone please write an easy to understand call to action letter that we can send to everyone we know who is R or D???
Then please make it an action section like you did with Ford and Dr. Laura
There are a lot of R's up for election on Nov. 4 as well as Dems who CAN be pressured.
Thank you.
SarainKC
· 1 year ago
Here's a letter you can fax to your reps- but do it today. They rae going to try to ram a vote down tomorrow before anyone really understands what they are voting on..unless we educate them first!
I posted this last night but not enough people saw it, so I'm re-positing it now.
Joe, John, Chris- please highlight this!
Bush's economic bailout bill is another scam- another money grab. Think Patriot Act! This time our hapless Dems can't say they didn't have time to read the bill- we need to be all over this faxing our outrage over this bill. Please read this now and share with everyone you know- post it on all the blogs you frequent and get the word out. Then write your Senators and Congresscritters PRONTO! http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/20/153952/...
A commentor gave this sample letter he sent that you can use- faxing it seems to get more attention:
Dear Senator XXXXXX:
I am writing in very deep concern over the Wall Street Bailout Act, currently entitled as "LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL FOR TREASURY AUTHORITY TO PURCHASE MORTGAGE-RELATED ASSETS".
This is, to say the least, a deeply troubling bill. Specifically:
There is little to no oversight. Furthermore, section 8 ensures that any oversight is crippled from the start, as it states, and I quote from the text of the act: "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency." The floating amount controlled by the Secretary of the Treasury is $700B is effectively a blank check as there is no hard limit. It appears that the power of the Secretary extends to no-bid contracts. It provides no restoration of the provisions of the Glass-Steagall Act, modernized or otherwise, that were stripped away by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. It does absolutely nothing to change the fundamental problems that led us to this situation. I strongly urge you to vote against this bill. I know that we need to prevent the complete disintegration of our economy, but this is not the solution. This is a blank check to the executive; it is the abdication of the financial powers granted to the legislative branch in Article 1, Section 8 of the constitution.
Sincerely,
Will_In_Midtown
· 1 year ago
Someone, somewhere (though I do think it was on this blog) posted some language from the actual Bailout proposal which in effect said there would be no oversight whatsoever of Paulson's distribution of these funds.
Could you post that language again, with a link?
SarainKC
· 1 year ago
Just did- look above your post. :)
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 1 year ago
Remember at the start of all this. The repubs were screaming that they did not want to reward the speculators. So help for the individual homeowner was stopped. Now they are all screaming we should help the speculators, and help for the individual is being quashed once again. Now this term helping "mainstreet" is being bandied about. Implying that small business will be helped by this bailout. Not a likely chance of this happening. Mainstreet is being devastated by a recession. Banks are hoarding the money being given to them. Applying it to their bottom lines first. In all of this charade being foisted upon us have you heard once that the money must be loaned out? NO, you hear doublespeak about how it will make the market more liquid, all this is being done to shore up wallstreet. Stocks can rise again, investment banks make money, CEO's get paid big bonuses...ad nauseum....
Maybe we should just all refuse to pay our credit cards!
SarainKC
· 1 year ago
I posted this last night but not enough people saw it, so I'm re-positing it now.
Joe, John, Chris- please highlight this!
Bush's economic bailout bill is another scam- another money grab. Think Patriot Act! This time our hapless Dems can't say they didn't have time to read the bill- we need to be all over this faxing our outrage over this bill. Please read this now and share with everyone you know- post it on all the blogs you frequent and get the word out. Then write your Senators and Congresscritters PRONTO! http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/20/153952/...
A commentor gave this sample letter he sent that you can use- faxing it seems to get more attention:
Dear Senator XXXXXX:
I am writing in very deep concern over the Wall Street Bailout Act, currently entitled as "LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL FOR TREASURY AUTHORITY TO PURCHASE MORTGAGE-RELATED ASSETS".
This is, to say the least, a deeply troubling bill. Specifically:
There is little to no oversight. Furthermore, section 8 ensures that any oversight is crippled from the start, as it states, and I quote from the text of the act: "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency." The floating amount controlled by the Secretary of the Treasury is $700B is effectively a blank check as there is no hard limit. It appears that the power of the Secretary extends to no-bid contracts. It provides no restoration of the provisions of the Glass-Steagall Act, modernized or otherwise, that were stripped away by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. It does absolutely nothing to change the fundamental problems that led us to this situation. I strongly urge you to vote against this bill. I know that we need to prevent the complete disintegration of our economy, but this is not the solution. This is a blank check to the executive; it is the abdication of the financial powers granted to the legislative branch in Article 1, Section 8 of the constitution.
Sincerely,
SarainKC
· 1 year ago
They are going to push for a vote Monday- the time for us to let our voices be heard is NOW. We can't sit idly by and complain after the fact. Use the sample letter and fax it to your House and Senate Reps. Post the sample letter and dkos link on all the blogs you frequent and get the word out. We have to stop this!
tbhull
· 1 year ago
The link does not work.
Fireblazes(CheetohsandCatfood)
· 1 year ago
Sadly, your daily kos link leads to a blank page!
SarainKC
· 1 year ago
Sorry- I tried to go back and copy the link, but the diary is gone. It was one of the recommended ones but might have had too many comments. It had over 700 this morning. I'll keep looking....
This shouldn't have even reached a point where any decisions HAVE to be rushed. That ALONE should be enough to distrust their solution. They want to have permission to loot just like they already have permission to spy and torture.
AdrianBrowne
· 1 year ago
What is the long-term strategy here? What is their exit plan? The takeover of these companies should have a built-in termination.
JMOHR
· 1 year ago
This is really the second issue within the collapse. In a small, owner operated business, the owner has all of his/her skin in the game. In a small corporation with a relatively few shareholders and where a fair amount of the shareholder's wealth is committed, there is a significant level of exposure and thus vigilance over what is happening. However, we have truly created a system of enormous corporations with such diverse ownership that no one with their skin in the game really has such a significant exposure so as to justify the type of oversight over one corporation's activities.
The second layer involves the top management, the CEO and other senior executives who can reap tens of millions of dollars a year in compensation. Yes, they will have stock options (and the incentive to manipulate short term pricing to cash out) and some skin in the game. However, the possibility to rake in tens if not hundreds of millions makes it easy to justify extremely risky and short sighted business strategies. The ability to accumulate sufficient wealth within several years to be set as one of the wealthy .5% of the country distorts the whole picture of wealth. The ability to then lock in a safety net through golden parachute or consultancy agreements to assist in bankruptcy or sale removes any reasonable perception of risk on the part of these executives. This is an area that must be dealt with.
tlsintx
· 1 year ago
here's a good letter to send Congress... from a dKos diarist: ...if small businesses and farmers will be hurt, give them help directly...don't give even more money to the crooks who got us into this mess...
Will the Treasury Secretary have the right to seize property for unpaid credit card debt wihtout court review?
Patriot
· 1 year ago
Too few people in the United States "get it." The majority have been dumbed down to the hilt and could never wrap their heads around what has and is about to happen. The rest who do understand what is happening will write letters, do anything they can to cry out that this is utter BS, continue being activists to try to bring about better leadership or, simply be too apathetic to give a damn as long as it doesn't affect their immediate paychecks.
If you want to get the attention of the majority of dumbed down amurkans pull the plug on their TV sets.
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
We can rant and we can rave and we can get angry---it is not going to change a damn thing. The few in power will make decisions for all of us peons and there is not a damn thing we can do about any of it. In 2006 we ousted a good number of Republicans and regained the majority, slim as it may be. Did it help? NO Every excuse in the book has been given why the current Dems have voted the way they voted on issues but it does not change the fact that we are really no better off today than we were 2 years ago.
Screaming that the presidential candidates give their opinion is rather useless. What can they do except give verbal confirmation or denial of the bailout. They are probably not party to what Paulson is giving as justifiable reasons for the bailout. They are in no position to change the outcomes.
So once again the American public is screwed by all our politicians
tbhull
· 1 year ago
Why do you not just put a bullet in your skull and end it with such an outlook.
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
Well I would miss you witty (not) clever (not) repartee. Quit being so damn nasty.
tbhull
· 1 year ago
Not jokes are always a winner, much in the same way giving up is always the best way to get a desired outcome.
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
I am sure Ann Coulter subscribes to your outlook. Good luck with that! As far as giving up, what makes you think the politicians will listen to anything the American public has to say?
tbhull
· 1 year ago
That does not keep seeking effective action with a voice and they fail to listen then seeking DC's destruction, at the ballot box at least.
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
Not disagreeing with you on this but the ballot box didn't help us over the past two years. It is the only way for the little guy to try and have some input into the decisions that affect all of us and so far, I personally feel let down.
SarainKC
· 1 year ago
Wow, does the victim mentality work for you? Seriously, if you don't have the energy to keep fighting, move out of the way. Giving up is not an option, so put up or shut up. (Please).
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
Excuse me, but who are you to tell me what to think or what to do? I have a right to free speech as do you. We may differ but I don't ask you to move out of the way or snap out it because we differ. Victim? Yeah, I think we are all victims of this government and have been for the past eight years and this is just one more example.
SarainKC
· 1 year ago
I'll tell you exactly who I am not and that is some moron screaming "there is nothing that can be done- we are powerless", "all is lost, why even bother", "we are screwed so just bend over and take it", "save me a seat on the misery train". Now, you can get hysterical and waste everyone's time by your hystrionics, but spare me your right to take up oxygen here when people are working their ass off to make a difference. If you want to act like a victim, do it somewhere else where your victim mentality is welcome. This is serious shit that is happening and if all you have to bring to the table is "why bother?", then seriously, move the fuck out of the way! If you don't have the strength to be part of the solution, at least stay in the shadows to avoid becoming part of the problem. Any questions?
SarainKC
· 1 year ago
I am sorry aquarious2 I should have taken a breath, maybe left for a few minutes before responding to you. Obviously I am very worked up over this. Still, I don't have the right to yell at you. I know you are worn out and it does seem like each piece of corrupt shit they unload on us just gets heavier. It's endless, for sure. But we have to stay in this. What is our alternative if we don't? Fighting them at every turn is better than throwing up our arms and giving in- no matter ho bad we'd like to sometimes. (I remember after FISA I was so worn out after the vote I slept for 2 days and stayed off my computer for a week). Come back to the fight because we need you. ALL of us can't afford to check out now.
(I'm sorry I got so mean with you)
aquarius2
· 1 year ago
No problem. I have read your comments before so I was somewhat startled by you taking off my head but I also know that this is a serious situation and as such it gets us all emotional. :)
mawa
· 1 year ago
I just read a piece on who got shafted (taken the loss), which is everyone except the fat cat. Everyone include you Joe public. They should be sued and put in jail.
It's not our intention to bail out risky hedge funds, but..... ( and, by the way, we'll bail out foreign entities as well)
All the assets we buy is with the intent of minimizing risk to the taxpayer (well, gee, thanks!) "It is very important to understand the difference between what we're doing and an expenditure or an outlay. THIS IS NOT A SPENDING PROGRAM." We're just holding them for a friend. We'll get our money back. Really.
"IT WOULD BE EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES, HIGHLY UNLIKELY, THAT THE COST WOULD BE ANYTHING LIKE THE AMOUNT YOU SPEND FOR THE ASSETS." wtf!?!?!? Is he high?????
But Wallace asked, once we bail them out and they go back to business as usual, do you limit "compensation" (what a term!!! oh it's so hard on them to come to work every day, now we have to make it up to them. HA!!!) and do the American taxpayers then get to enjoy some of the profits as well?
Answer - Where we've come in and injected capital directly into these firms we've taken strong steps to limit compensation (oh really - where?) but THIS program is DIFFERENT! This isn't just for failing entities, but for EVERYBODY!!!! "If we design it so its punitive and so institutions aren't going to participate, this won't work the way we want it to work." "Pay should be for performance, not for failure. We've got work to do in that regard, we need to do that work. But we need this system to work. REFORMS CAN COME AFTERWARDS" (don't hold your breath - if these clowns want to be bailed out then they can walk away with nothing - they've made enough already. If they don't like it - LET THEM FAIL. Simple as that. lets see how many hold out for the big paycheck while the building falls down around them.)
It would be bad to try to add any sort of homeowner relief so that we can "reduce the cost to the taxpayers" . You know, AFTER we own all of tis property, THEN we'll talk about MAYBE doing something for the people...
and we're going to let the same "professionals" that got us into this mess tell us how much this worthless crap is "worth" and that's how we'll decide how much to pay them
something about how we were "obligated" to bail out Fannie and Freddie because Congress created their charters "many years ago" blah blah - doesn't he remember that they were PRIVATIZED in 1968????? If not, I want all of the profits from 1968 onwards returned to the American people!
and the kicker - this really isn't debt that we're taking on, we're really just buying assets that we can sell later - it's good - REALLY!
Naomi Klein would be proud with his "There is no way we could have gone to Congress and got the authority to inject capital into the banking system by buying illiquid assets unless there was a clear and urgent and obvious need"
Disaster "capitalism" at its finest (and we've got to stop referring to this mess as any form of capitalism - its not.
Money quotes - "I don't just hate it, but we need to do something about it." and it's a "once in a 50 years kind of situation here" WTF!!! We're going to bail out wealthy, greedy, imprudent, Wall Street fat cats every 50 years - and give them $1 TRILLION!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
oh, he has one more - "The last thing I'll say to them (worried Americans), there are no guarantees in terms of the overall economy, but this program is designed to work, I believe it will work, and I just will say to the American people they can have confidence, we're a great country, we work through these problems, we're going to work through this problem and, remember, IT ALL GOES TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, we're the most entrepreneurial, hard-working people, that's the root cause, the root strength of our economy. I'm sorry we're in this situation, but we're going to work through it."
So they screw it up and we work hard to bail them out. Again. Thanks Paulson for making it so clear.
lilyannerose
· 1 year ago
As barbaric as it seems wasn't there a time in America where robber barons like these met up with the angry citizens carrying buckets of tar and sacks of feathers? Who are these damned elite excuses of humanity?
ptremuli
· 1 year ago
The time has come for a taxpayer revolt! The financial chronies have taken over the government and blackmailed the current crop of DC bureaucrats into doing whatever the financial chronies want. There will be no end to the bail outs as a blank check has been cut without any qualified government oversight. The inmates are running the asylum and have drafted 799 of thier closes friends to dine at the largest taxpayer buffet in history.
It's time for a third party to emerge and nominate a candidate to run against the Obama/McCain sharade. What is happening now is against all good sense. Paulson's guarantee is as he sees it and when he sees it and applying it with our tax dollars without consequences for those who ran thier corporate ships into the rocks. It's ludicris to think that Paulson should be given the power to be judge, jury and exicutioner or savior to his closest friends as he sees fit.
McCain's blast of Cox was right-on when the SEC removed the debt to equity limit of 12:1 and Lehman and the other four investment banks promptly went to 30:1 all on thier own and pushed the avalanche of new debt onto an uneducated underclass driving the housing first to bubble then to bust. If you give a man enough rope, he will hang himself. Let's not give Paulson enough rope to hang the taxpayers with the recklessness of insiders in Washington and New York.
nappy_rash
· 1 year ago
The market economy is be just and unjust, it's the law of the jungle and is better than the law of control that other systems offer.
All Comments
Boehner suggested giving Treasury Secretary Paulson the “powers as quickly as possible.” “There are a lot of well-meaning, well-intentioned ideas out there, but they don’t need to be part of this package,” he said, referring to assistance for average working families.
Boehner needs to wake up if he thinks help for Americans facing foreclosure is unnecessary because of last year’s housing bill. Foreclosure filings last month increased 27 percent compared to the same month a year ago. Homeless advocacy groups are “reporting the most visible rise in homeless encampments in a generation” in part because of rising foreclosures.
Direct relief for the middle-class and Americans struggling to stay in their homes should be a necessary part of the bailout package. Ed Paisely of the Center for American Progress explained
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/21/boehner-mai...
i wish Obama could come up with something better.
Obama live in Charlotte:
http://www.cnn.com/video/live/live.html?stream=...
I thought the 'Invisible Hand of The Free Market' was supposed to take care of all of this? If it's good enough to make us die waiting for affordable health care, it must certainly be good enough to take away their fat bonuses and homes in the Hamptons. (Talk about Regan's 'Welfare Queens'- these guys really are gaming the system to take money from the tax payers and drive away in gold-plated Cadillacs.)
Wall Street really is just a bunch of Socialists when it comes right down to it.
The entire time we were looking for terrorists abroad, the terrorists were destroying us from within and George W. Bush and republicans LET THEM DO IT!
Something smells very, very, very fishy to me.
Like, all-of-a-sudden everyone is going to trust Bush on this?
What?!
Love and peace and a happy fall season. Most of all, Love.
they should be jailed not rewarded.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/21/paulso...
Time will tell whether Congress is in bed with these folks thatg have fucked our financial system and now want to continue with us. Congress must not fold and not negoatiate with these vultures., though I am very sketical.
Obama cannot hide on this one very much longer. He needs to come out with a stand based on principle, not a principal.
Nice rant but when has ANYONE in government listened to the American people???? Every Democrat and every Republican needs to take responsibility for this entire fiasco BUT will they, probably not.
When the politicians keep telling us that this must be done or the consequences would be even greater, they are using nothing other than scare tactics ( Schock Doctrine ) to get the American people to go along. There is another way out of this that won't cost us a dime, but I'll tell you why they won't do it.
When our country was founded, the fonders very clearly stated in the Constitution that there was to be a US Treasury with coin in both gold and silver. That held for nearly 170 years until in 1913 the Federal reserve or central bank was created and we then went to a fiat system which we have today with trillions of paper dollars with nothing to back them floating around the world.
Presently congress which controls weights and measures states that all of the US gold holdings are only worth $42.50 an ounce when the rest of the world says gold is worth $900 and ounce currently. All Congress would have to do is to re-value that gold to the current market price. The Federal Reserve has already used half of its reserves to bali out all of the banks that have failed to date, so why buy them out on the taxpayers back for 700 Billion? Because our wonderful politicians who have grown accustomed to sucking off the teet of the bakers can continue to keep all of us an endentured slaves to a system of continuous debt. Without the Federal Reserve which is nothing but a cartel of private banking concerns, The American people would no longer have to pay outrageous interest rates so that the bakers can get fatter on our hard work and sweat which is not what the founders envisioned. Cut off the head of the hydra known as the Federal reserve and many of our current problems simply disappear.
The bailout in its current form doesn't even allow Congress or a court of law to review the process and gives unlimtied power to one man. Paulson, who should have been kicked out of office along with Bernanke because they were well aware of this financial tsunami over a year ago and did nothing to stop it.
If any of you reading this have a free moment to contact your congressmen and Senators, thell them that if we truely live in a society that is supposed to have free markets, then DON'T allow them to steamroll this through as the did the Patriot Act in the dark of night. Many in Congress never even read the bill.
Time is short everyone, but there is another way. Stop and think about it. Why is our gold only worth $42.50 an ounce when the rest of the world says it is worth far more. The revaluation of of our gold, can buy out the Fed and send them back to hell where they belong. Jefferson knew this. The Republicans under Nixon closed the gold window in 1971, and since that time, the dollar has lost 95% of its value.
If you want to continue being a slave to the debt masters do nothing. If your in agreement, get on the phone, write a letter, send an e-mail or fax, but do it now as this proposal will be out of the house this week and then onto the Senate waiting for the signature of the ultimate crook in chief. George W. Bush.
I sent an e-mail to Pelosi this morning, and I hope others do the same---along with calls to all your representatives.
Here is a sample letter you can use:
Dear Senator XXXXXX:
I am writing in very deep concern over the Wall Street Bailout Act, currently entitled as "LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL FOR TREASURY AUTHORITY TO PURCHASE MORTGAGE-RELATED ASSETS".
This is, to say the least, a deeply troubling bill. Specifically:
There is little to no oversight. Furthermore, section 8 ensures that any oversight is crippled from the start, as it states, and I quote from the text of the act: "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."
The floating amount controlled by the Secretary of the Treasury is $700B is effectively a blank check as there is no hard limit.
It appears that the power of the Secretary extends to no-bid contracts.
It provides no restoration of the provisions of the Glass-Steagall Act, modernized or otherwise, that were stripped away by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. It does absolutely nothing to change the fundamental problems that led us to this situation.
I strongly urge you to vote against this bill. I know that we need to prevent the complete disintegration of our economy, but this is not the solution. This is a blank check to the executive; it is the abdication of the financial powers granted to the legislative branch in Article 1, Section 8 of the constitution.
Sincerely,
reply edit record video comment reblog flag
4 /people/SarainKC/ /people/SarainKC/follow/
Carry on...
"Charles Keating was John McCain's pal. They met in 1981 and Keating dumped $112,000 in the McCain campaign bank accounts between '82 and '87. A year before McCain met with the FHLBB regulators, his wife Cindy and her father, according to newspaper reports at the time, invested about $360,000 in one of Keating's shopping centers. The Arizona Republic reported McCain and his wife and their babysitter took nine trips on Keating's private jet to the Bahamas to stay at the S&L liar's decadent Cat Cay resort. The senator didn't pay Keating back for the plane rides until years later when he was under investigation.
McCain wasn't found guilty of anything but bad judgment, which is an historic understatement. Republicans, who led deregulation of the S&L industry, delayed the bailout until after the 1988 election to make sure George H. W. won the White House. The cost to taxpayers for helping these 747 bad actors in the S&L industry was finally estimated at $1.4 trillion. If the bailout had begun in 1986 instead of after the presidential election, the cost would have been contained at $20 billion. "
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-moore/a-natio...
Today's imminent financial meltdown with unspeakable consequences sounds strikingly familar to yesterday's yellow cake and a resulting Iraq prompted mushroom cloud. One would have though Congrss learned their lesson.
By the way, I've personally complained to the YMCA here in Tulsa. Their facilities always ALWAYS have their televisions tuned to FOX NEWS as if they want us all to view their propaganda while we work out. Does the YMCA have some kind of partnership with FOX NEWS or is it because I live in Tulsa and the heart of the Talibangelicals that this happens? I'm wondering if its just a local thing? Anyone else notice in other areas of the nation? I always make it a habit of changing the station from FOX to MSNBC but whenever I go to the gym the 40 - 50 televisions are mostly tuned to FOX.
We need a viral email to go to everyone on our mailing list no matter their party affiliation. The email needs to be easy to understand with links on how to contact their congressperson and senators...as well as the generic phone numbers to Congress.
John, Joe, Chris..can someone please write an easy to understand call to action letter that we can send to everyone we know who is R or D???
Then please make it an action section like you did with Ford and Dr. Laura
There are a lot of R's up for election on Nov. 4 as well as Dems who CAN be pressured.
Thank you.
I posted this last night but not enough people saw it, so I'm re-positing it now.
Joe, John, Chris- please highlight this!
Bush's economic bailout bill is another scam- another money grab. Think Patriot Act! This time our hapless Dems can't say they didn't have time to read the bill- we need to be all over this faxing our outrage over this bill. Please read this now and share with everyone you know- post it on all the blogs you frequent and get the word out. Then write your Senators and Congresscritters PRONTO!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/20/153952/...
A commentor gave this sample letter he sent that you can use- faxing it seems to get more attention:
Dear Senator XXXXXX:
I am writing in very deep concern over the Wall Street Bailout Act, currently entitled as "LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL FOR TREASURY AUTHORITY TO PURCHASE MORTGAGE-RELATED ASSETS".
This is, to say the least, a deeply troubling bill. Specifically:
There is little to no oversight. Furthermore, section 8 ensures that any oversight is crippled from the start, as it states, and I quote from the text of the act: "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."
The floating amount controlled by the Secretary of the Treasury is $700B is effectively a blank check as there is no hard limit.
It appears that the power of the Secretary extends to no-bid contracts.
It provides no restoration of the provisions of the Glass-Steagall Act, modernized or otherwise, that were stripped away by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. It does absolutely nothing to change the fundamental problems that led us to this situation.
I strongly urge you to vote against this bill. I know that we need to prevent the complete disintegration of our economy, but this is not the solution. This is a blank check to the executive; it is the abdication of the financial powers granted to the legislative branch in Article 1, Section 8 of the constitution.
Sincerely,
Could you post that language again, with a link?
Maybe we should just all refuse to pay our credit cards!
Joe, John, Chris- please highlight this!
Bush's economic bailout bill is another scam- another money grab. Think Patriot Act! This time our hapless Dems can't say they didn't have time to read the bill- we need to be all over this faxing our outrage over this bill. Please read this now and share with everyone you know- post it on all the blogs you frequent and get the word out. Then write your Senators and Congresscritters PRONTO!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/20/153952/...
A commentor gave this sample letter he sent that you can use- faxing it seems to get more attention:
Dear Senator XXXXXX:
I am writing in very deep concern over the Wall Street Bailout Act, currently entitled as "LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL FOR TREASURY AUTHORITY TO PURCHASE MORTGAGE-RELATED ASSETS".
This is, to say the least, a deeply troubling bill. Specifically:
There is little to no oversight. Furthermore, section 8 ensures that any oversight is crippled from the start, as it states, and I quote from the text of the act: "Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."
The floating amount controlled by the Secretary of the Treasury is $700B is effectively a blank check as there is no hard limit.
It appears that the power of the Secretary extends to no-bid contracts.
It provides no restoration of the provisions of the Glass-Steagall Act, modernized or otherwise, that were stripped away by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. It does absolutely nothing to change the fundamental problems that led us to this situation.
I strongly urge you to vote against this bill. I know that we need to prevent the complete disintegration of our economy, but this is not the solution. This is a blank check to the executive; it is the abdication of the financial powers granted to the legislative branch in Article 1, Section 8 of the constitution.
Sincerely,
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/20/132020/...
The second layer involves the top management, the CEO and other senior executives who can reap tens of millions of dollars a year in compensation. Yes, they will have stock options (and the incentive to manipulate short term pricing to cash out) and some skin in the game. However, the possibility to rake in tens if not hundreds of millions makes it easy to justify extremely risky and short sighted business strategies. The ability to accumulate sufficient wealth within several years to be set as one of the wealthy .5% of the country distorts the whole picture of wealth. The ability to then lock in a safety net through golden parachute or consultancy agreements to assist in bankruptcy or sale removes any reasonable perception of risk on the part of these executives. This is an area that must be dealt with.
...if small businesses and farmers will be hurt, give them help directly...don't give even more money to the crooks who got us into this mess...
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/21/135...
write or call or fax!
If you want to get the attention of the majority of dumbed down amurkans pull the plug on their TV sets.
Screaming that the presidential candidates give their opinion is rather useless. What can they do except give verbal confirmation or denial of the bailout. They are probably not party to what Paulson is giving as justifiable reasons for the bailout. They are in no position to change the outcomes.
So once again the American public is screwed by all our politicians
(I'm sorry I got so mean with you)
http://financialtraders.blogspot.com/2008/09/le...
It's not our intention to bail out risky hedge funds, but..... ( and, by the way, we'll bail out foreign entities as well)
All the assets we buy is with the intent of minimizing risk to the taxpayer (well, gee, thanks!) "It is very important to understand the difference between what we're doing and an expenditure or an outlay. THIS IS NOT A SPENDING PROGRAM." We're just holding them for a friend. We'll get our money back. Really.
"IT WOULD BE EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES, HIGHLY UNLIKELY, THAT THE COST WOULD BE ANYTHING LIKE THE AMOUNT YOU SPEND FOR THE ASSETS." wtf!?!?!? Is he high?????
But Wallace asked, once we bail them out and they go back to business as usual, do you limit "compensation" (what a term!!! oh it's so hard on them to come to work every day, now we have to make it up to them. HA!!!) and do the American taxpayers then get to enjoy some of the profits as well?
Answer - Where we've come in and injected capital directly into these firms we've taken strong steps to limit compensation (oh really - where?) but THIS program is DIFFERENT! This isn't just for failing entities, but for EVERYBODY!!!! "If we design it so its punitive and so institutions aren't going to participate, this won't work the way we want it to work." "Pay should be for performance, not for failure. We've got work to do in that regard, we need to do that work. But we need this system to work. REFORMS CAN COME AFTERWARDS" (don't hold your breath - if these clowns want to be bailed out then they can walk away with nothing - they've made enough already. If they don't like it - LET THEM FAIL. Simple as that. lets see how many hold out for the big paycheck while the building falls down around them.)
It would be bad to try to add any sort of homeowner relief so that we can "reduce the cost to the taxpayers" . You know, AFTER we own all of tis property, THEN we'll talk about MAYBE doing something for the people...
and we're going to let the same "professionals" that got us into this mess tell us how much this worthless crap is "worth" and that's how we'll decide how much to pay them
something about how we were "obligated" to bail out Fannie and Freddie because Congress created their charters "many years ago" blah blah - doesn't he remember that they were PRIVATIZED in 1968????? If not, I want all of the profits from 1968 onwards returned to the American people!
and the kicker - this really isn't debt that we're taking on, we're really just buying assets that we can sell later - it's good - REALLY!
Naomi Klein would be proud with his "There is no way we could have gone to Congress and got the authority to inject capital into the banking system by buying illiquid assets unless there was a clear and urgent and obvious need"
Disaster "capitalism" at its finest (and we've got to stop referring to this mess as any form of capitalism - its not.
Money quotes - "I don't just hate it, but we need to do something about it." and it's a "once in a 50 years kind of situation here" WTF!!! We're going to bail out wealthy, greedy, imprudent, Wall Street fat cats every 50 years - and give them $1 TRILLION!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
oh, he has one more - "The last thing I'll say to them (worried Americans), there are no guarantees in terms of the overall economy, but this program is designed to work, I believe it will work, and I just will say to the American people they can have confidence, we're a great country, we work through these problems, we're going to work through this problem and, remember, IT ALL GOES TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, we're the most entrepreneurial, hard-working people, that's the root cause, the root strength of our economy. I'm sorry we're in this situation, but we're going to work through it."
So they screw it up and we work hard to bail them out. Again. Thanks Paulson for making it so clear.
It's time for a third party to emerge and nominate a candidate to run against the Obama/McCain sharade. What is happening now is against all good sense. Paulson's guarantee is as he sees it and when he sees it and applying it with our tax dollars without consequences for those who ran thier corporate ships into the rocks. It's ludicris to think that Paulson should be given the power to be judge, jury and exicutioner or savior to his closest friends as he sees fit.
McCain's blast of Cox was right-on when the SEC removed the debt to equity limit of 12:1 and Lehman and the other four investment banks promptly went to 30:1 all on thier own and pushed the avalanche of new debt onto an uneducated underclass driving the housing first to bubble then to bust. If you give a man enough rope, he will hang himself. Let's not give Paulson enough rope to hang the taxpayers with the recklessness of insiders in Washington and New York.