DISQUS

AMERICAblog: <strike>Bush</strike> Obama now talking $300 bn in tax cuts

  • dula · 11 months ago
    During his campaign for Prez didn't Obama say he would pay for tax cuts for the Middle Class by rolling back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy? Now he says he will just let them expire in 2010...then how is he gonna pay for the tax cuts?
  • dad · 11 months ago
    stop feeding the beast
  • Older_Wiser · 11 months ago
    I wouldn't worry about the upper middle class getting tax cuts, John. This is where the bulk of that 40% will go, not to the lower 50% of wage earners. Just be thankful you're not on welfare in DC...

    Oh, and as a small business owner, you will also get tax relief. So, just double the tax cut.
  • ZennButtKicker (tlhwraith) · 11 months ago
    However, since as an upper middle class wage earner let me say how overjoyed I was when people got their "stimulus" checks but I was told I made too much to get a check designed to be spent on "stuff" (does that make sense?). I'm so tired of people yelling about the "upper middle class" and "rich people" getting all the tax breaks, I pay almost a third of my income to various taxes and if I'm the supposed to be the beneficiary of the largess of the politicians, someone is smoking the good stuff.

    Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with my taxes being used to help out people less fortunate than me, but stop making people in my income bracket out to be a bunch of bandits making out with all the money. I don't have the money to pay a super-duper tax attorney/accountant to find enough loopholes for me to benefit from the current tax law so I guess I get the honor and privilege of getting hosed on both sides.
  • Older_Wiser · 11 months ago
    In 1993, I made $35K and paid 1/3 of my pay to taxes, hardly "upper middle class." It was part of the "sock it to the working class" Reagan taxes. I was single and even my mortgage interest gave no relief. Besides, not much difference in "stuff" anyway. Everyone buys pretty much the same thing for everyday use, the only difference is what you pay for it, the quality and type you can afford. Otherwise, discretionary spending declines as you go down the ladder. For instance, I might go to a walk in movie twice a year and I never get a vacation. Any travel is outside my budget. So yes, there are a lot of factors working here, but all things considered, most people would like to just keep up with every day bills in this day and age, and too many aren't, and it's not that the majority of working or middle class people are buying furs and Porsches, either.

    We're all victims of this consumerist society in many, many ways.
  • John Aravosis · 11 months ago
    A-freaking-men, Zenn.
  • John Aravosis · 11 months ago
    No chance in hell. I suspect I won't see a dime of any money going into the stimulus bill, either as a taxpayer, a small business, or anything else. I hope you're right, but I don't think so.
  • Indigo · 11 months ago
    All is well. We can file our concerns at www.change.gov . Let me know if somebody figures out where the input module is.
  • naschkatzehussein · 11 months ago
    So you're having trouble too. I just put my comments on the front page where it says "groups" can input, but my comments probably are being shit-canned.
  • Indigo · 11 months ago
    Yup!  The we-hear-and-respect-you module is broken.
  • scytherius · 11 months ago
    Now there is no one, believe it or not, that loathes republicans like I loathe republicans. However, haven't these particular tax cuts always been part of the Obama plan?
  • Older_Wiser · 11 months ago
    I'm going out on a limb here and predict we'll have double digit unemployment by the end of the year.

    I can feel it in my bones...
  • scottinsf · 11 months ago
    Yup. I'll go even further and predict the median US home value will drop another 15% this year and the S&P index will probably lose another 20-25%. The upside a year from now will be that people that still have a job, good credit, and don't have an upside down mortgage will be able to swoop in and pick up some real estate at a reasonable price if interest rates don't rise too much.
  • Akaison · 11 months ago
    Sadly agree.
  • tbhull · 11 months ago
    Does anyone have a link for the specific proposals.

    I was wondering what, if anything, Obama proposes regarding the estate tax.
  • EmGD · 11 months ago
    Aren't these just the taxcuts he incessantly went on about during the election, just tied into a stimulus program? I don't see what the big complaint is about, he was fairly clear about taxcutstaxcutstaxcuts during the past few months.

    http://thesebastards.blogspot.com/
  • ZennButtKicker (tlhwraith) · 11 months ago
    Apparently, progressives need something to complain about or they don't feel like they're doing the right thing.
  • nicho · 11 months ago
    No one ever got anything accomplished politically by sitting back and keeping their mouths shut.
  • Bush_Bites · 11 months ago
    Agree.

    He talked about them constantly.

    I don't understand the shock.
  • Akaison · 11 months ago
    Again as I said above- thats an incredible trick for him to have talked about the stimulus package which he just came up with after the election to address the economic crisis and for that have to been what he discussed previously with regard to the tax cuts.

    these were two different things that many of you sycophants are conflating. I see you have your talking points now.
  • ZennButtKicker (tlhwraith) · 11 months ago
    Why don't we actually let the plan be released before we cry about how horrible it is. This is what kills Democrats and Progressives every single time, putting the cart before the horse. We don't even have all the details and Obama has already been called a liar and denounced as a failure.
  • scytherius · 11 months ago
    WELL said. I mean the man isn't even President yet. And we are looking at the worst the United States has had to face. Let's not be Freepers and if we don't like something instantly throw the person under the bus.
  • John Aravosis · 11 months ago
    Um, because then it will be too late to influence the process and do anything about it. No offense, but this notion that we should wait to see what people will do first reminds me of many in the gay community who always say "if the government does x y and z to take away my rights, then I'm really gonna get mad." Well, you need to get mad before the other guy hurts you.
  • Older_Wiser · 11 months ago
    Well, the Wall St. Journal gives us a clue:

    On the campaign trail, Mr. Obama said he would phase out a similar tax-credit proposal at around $200,000 per household, but aides said they haven't settled on an income cap for the latest proposal. This part of the plan is similar to a bipartisan initiative launched in early 2008, which sent out checks worth $131 billion.

    Economists of all political stripes widely agree the checks sent out last spring were ineffective in stemming the economic slide, partly because many strapped consumers paid bills or saved the cash rather than spend it. But Obama aides wanted a provision that could get money into consumers' hands fast, and hope they will be persuaded to spend money this time if the credit is made a permanent feature of the tax code.

    [Aides said they hadn't settled on an income cap...]
  • jrgrade66 · 11 months ago
    I think it might be time for those of us with anything left to sell it all and move to the country. That way we can grow our own food and escape the rioting from all those who are getting screwed by this plan.
  • wearing out my F key · 11 months ago
    me likey tax cuts!
  • Yankee · 11 months ago
    He's the Democrat's Democrat. He hasn't even slapped his hand on the bible, and he's already capitulated.

    Capitulated? I will correct myself and say the Dems and GOP are bought by the same merchants. The GOP just has more fundie flavor.
  • Indigo · 11 months ago
    Correction: used to have a more fundie flavor. With Warren as the White House chaplain, fundie is no longer an exclusively Republican concern..
  • wearing out my F key · 11 months ago
    i feel very confident that i can waste my money as well, if not better, than the government can. ( i plan to use the extra cash for a downpayment on a foreign made car!) and besides, we can worry about the deficit later.
  • caphillprof · 11 months ago
    Let's see: for the past 8 years we gave tax cuts to the wealthy and they invested in? sub prime mortgage derivatives, hyper inflated real estate, hyper inflated stocks, and the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme. That didn't work so well. Didn't create jobs at home, didn't support Detroit, didn't shore up our domestic manufacturing base. So now we think more of the same failed policies are going to be our salvation?
  • never drank the kool-aid · 11 months ago
    Shock! Outrage! Drama!

    Some of us had Obama pegged as a cynical, triangulating centrist more than a year ago, thanks to the McClurkin fiasco.

    Obama's recent transformation into Joe Lieberman is no surprise for those of us who have been paying attention.
  • Jay · 11 months ago
    ANOTHER tax cut? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we elect a DEMOCRAT in November?

    I'm beginning to think electing Obama was a HUGE mistake.
  • larry · 11 months ago
    Maybe I am confused but whats the whine? Obama promised tax cuts to the middle class( you know the 90+% theme) and small business all with incomes under 250k. The republican mantra is that the GOP is about tax cuts and have already been yelling about another Democrat spending orgy...hard for them to raise hell..how will they go back to the voters in the states that elected them RED or otherwise and tell the electorate..I was AGAINST a tax cut to 90+% of you but FOR a tax cut for the top 3% under Bush/McCain..and oh yeah, the spending part was way too much...you do not need roads, bridges that stand, jobs...oh no but the top 3% need the tax cut so lets talk about abortion and gay people. Come on..he is out flanking them without abandoning Democratic principles and his campaign.. He is taking there issue .....let them campaign against that in 12 !
    Having said that....why is everyone getting there pee hot...have any of you SEEN the stimulus package or are we all just talking out our collective asses until we do? I think some just would rather blah blah blah blah blah blah
  • Steve_in_CNJ · 11 months ago
    if there is a strong reaction here and elsewhere (krugman, marshall, etc), it's understandable because obama has not made a single progressive decision in the past 2 years, except maybe his science appointments. people are simply mystified why he still seems to fear conservatives. but is it fear or affinity? also, risk-averse people have this pattern of trying get everybody implicated in the final decision. does that explain obama?
  • Jroll · 11 months ago
    interesting, although to demonstrate the first sentence you'd perhaps need to define a "progressive decision" and show how each decision he's made over the past two years measure up to that standard (and some may still challenge the rationale for a certain definition being used over another).Going back to the topic here though,I also have my doubts on the effectiveness of these tax cuts. While the bush upper 1% cuts seemed to have the effect of sitting in bank vaults or overseas investments among other things, these middle class tax cuts may really just go into paying down individual debts. We'll see what happens I suppose.
  • Akaison · 11 months ago
    His tax cut plans had nothing to do with the stimulus. The prolbmem in your understanding of the stimulus. The idea is to use that to push spending and demand to a) prevent a deeping recession or depression b) promose certain economic policies such as a green economy c) address the reality that monetary policies have already failed (tax policy was tried by Bush ) etc.

    Let me put it in simple terms- if there is demand for business, that business goes under. If that business goes under, tax cuts and credits for employees hired becomes a joke. You have no stimulated the economy at all in that instance.

    There are other examples if you care to dispute that one.
  • Ginger_FL · 11 months ago
    I always laughed hysterically when Obama was labled the Most "liberal senator in the senate" ROFLMFAO
    Liberal my ASS !!!
    He is no progressive folks...even though I worked my working class ASS off helping to elect him (became a super volunteer)...I always knew I was supporting a right leaning centrist who would eagerly side with repiglicons over progressive dems. Hillbot shot herself in the foot so I had no other choice but Obama.
    Hell, even howard dean was tossed under the bus !!!!
  • Bob Jones · 11 months ago
    I'll have to see who the tax cuts are for first, but if they're on capital gains I'm writing Obama off as a failure in my book. He'll be another Namby Pamby Democrat cowering at the altar of republican ideals.
  • John · 11 months ago
    The problem is simple and one that never changes in D.C. The tax cut being talked about amounts to little if nothing that will be left for the middle class. I think it was John A of Americablog that figured out that dollar amount. I came to $19 every two weeks more in ones paycheck. That's $496.00 per year. Kiss it goodbye now because state, city an school taxes are going up as well as fees and now there is talk of raising the tax on a gallon of gas. As far as the middle class is concerned, it's always one step forward and five steps back. We just can't win.
    Obama may be shrewd when it comes to politics when it comes to having to work with the other side, but fudementally, the financial system as we know it is bankrupt. They just haven'y gotten around to telling us what we alrready know
  • Mitch Hussein · 11 months ago
    This is the most negitive, blog I've ever come across. Nothing Obama can do or say is gonna please this blog and some of these cross dressers who protend to be libral dems but are really trouble maker reps. I'm done with this site and any other who wine and bath in negitive slashes against Obama...ENOUGH!!! Let the man try and put our country back in decent shape...and stop all this "what should you be doing for me because I conditionally voted for the black man". This bloggers site and all you winers on here need to get a life. And get over it...whatever IT is.
  • John Aravosis · 11 months ago
    We were the first major blog to support Obama a year ago. So, with all due respect, bite me.
  • Akaison · 11 months ago
    This really is taking on Bush overtones. Not only is it not enough that one supports Obama, but one must blindly do so even when he's acting a manner that's destructive. It just proves my view that "dear leader" is not just a right wing issue in America. It's an issue of how the American people are now becoming at easy with finding a leader to solve all our problems without accountability.
  • Griffon · 11 months ago
    My impression of the Obama Faithful is that they ardently resist the idea of having devoted so some much time and effort to a 'confidence man.'

    Understandable, but when protest to such blatant evidence as the telecom immunity vote (which was, by then, done with Obama as de facto head of the party) is dismissed as whining by the OF, there begins to emerge a pattern of rank denial; something the republicans have maintained for the last 12 years. Unfortunately for the OF, the signs of Obama's disingenuous-ness are increasingly apparent.
  • Griffon · 11 months ago
    "...and stop all this "what should you be doing for me because I conditionally voted for the black man".

    The idea was to vote for 'change.' Having a dishonest, right-wing, Falwell-esque clergyman premiere the administration of 'change' does not bode well for promoting the very message Obama used to gather votes. Voting for telecom immunity after securing the nomination also does not buttress Obama's ability to keep his promises. Both are a slap-in-the-face to people who believed the candidate.

    'Change' is as 'change' does and reneging on campaign promises almost faster than a Britney Spears marriage does not instill confidence in an abused and fabrication-weary public. The last 8 years far depleted the supply of "trust us" political capital, and anyone who demands more, knowing full well no equity has been substantively established-in fact further depleted by Obama's FISA and telecom immunity votes- is either selling something or works for Obama's campaign.

    Obama's beginning to look every bit the slick, corporate-pwned huckster we were desperate to avoid.
  • devlzadvocate · 11 months ago
    I think supporting him gives all the more credence to the criticism. I feel my criticisms are totally valid as a member of the team that campaigned for him and a member of his party. I still also praise the actions that are worthy of it, but I'm not going to express agreement with things I think are wrong or a betrayal of the major theme that were commited to during the campaign
  • Older_Wiser · 11 months ago
    There may be a hiccup in HIllary Clinton's nomination for Secy of State...involving legislation for a NY developer who later contributed heavily to her. Fast on the heels of the Richardson investigation.

    Left wing, right wing, it's all the same bird...at this stage, I'm going to refuse to defend any politician since they seem to be as greedy for money and power as any other corporatist.
  • pdxprobert · 11 months ago
    they are lobbyists for the corporations now..whether they are in an elected position or a private one.... labor has no power any longer... if you can't beat'em join'em...

    open a business...
  • Wolfsinger · 11 months ago
    Good Grief!

    Here is the new administration taking its plays from the biggest loser administration in Presidential history. Bigger than Hover. Oh yay.

    With this action, like his FISA vote, Obama has done more than give the "impression" that he is "dealing with" or even that he will clean up this horrendous mess - he's actually embraced it and taken possession of it for the history books.

    "Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss"

    For what it is worth, I am sorry and deeply saddened that I feel this way. What is in the air in DC that makes Democrats so teeth chattering, knee knocking, pants wetting afraid of Republicans? ? Bulletin: The Republicans LOST!
  • lucky hussein · 11 months ago
    As tom hartmann is pointing out today, tax reductions to nothing for working people only the rich. Honestly, I have been nothing but dissapointed by BO since he got the nomination...
  • Boycottutah · 11 months ago
    Sadly, Obama is looking more and more like Bush. Empty suit anyone.
  • naschkatzehussein · 11 months ago
    If Obama keeps this up, we are going to see a repeat of the 1994 election. It won't be because we progressives and the center voters go Republican. It will be because we just stay home. We handed the Democrats a huge victory, and they are turning their backs on it. It appears that Obama will do anything to avoid a fight, and I'm starting to agree with Barney Frank that Obama thinks he can do everything just on charm.
  • Boycottutah · 11 months ago
    And as the Obama charm wears off, he will need the money and votes of the LGBT Community. And we will remember McClurkin, Warren, and the way he avoided appointing LGBT people.
  • HarpoSnarx · 11 months ago
    Sad to say, I agree. Inviting the Glutton to prey with the Congresswhores. More irresponsible tax cuts. More McSame. No gay appointments. Spitting on the base til they need our money or motion.

    Oh yeah we're all a bunch of whiny bitches.
  • Steve_in_CNJ · 11 months ago
    we don't know yet if they will be irresponsible. TPM just posted Robert Reich's reaction, and it's tentatively positive:
    http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/...
  • Bush_Bites · 11 months ago
    The Bush tax cuts put us in hock big time and more tax cuts seem to be compounding the problem.

    These tax cuts appear to be for working people and small businesses, so they seem fairer than Bush's tax cuts.

    So, is "spreading the tax cuts" worth going further into debt, knowing that the deficit will ultimately hit working people disproportionately (through reduced government services)?
  • Garrett in SF · 11 months ago
    It appears that Obama is trying to run his government via consensus -- another great way to get nothing useful done. There is a big difference between trying to meet people in the middle and trying to appease everyone. Try building anything by consensus -- its a surefire way to fail.
  • FunMe · 11 months ago
    CHANGE ... maybe they meant 4 quarters for a dolah?

    100 pennies?

    10 dimes

    20 nickles

    CHANGE ... exactly what did Obama mean by that.
    Oh yeah, just words.
  • Wolfsinger · 11 months ago
    Gay and Straight. Young and Old. Rich and Poor. Black and White. Progressives All in thought and action.

    These are the ones who heard the call. That canvased the streets. That knocked on the doors.

    These are the folks that believed. Progressives and Patriots alike - no matter how you wrap 'em. And we delivered. Yes We Did.

    Guess we are ALL just a bunch of whiny bitches now. Shame on us for believing.
  • Bush_Bites · 11 months ago
    I'm not sure why everybody is surprised.

    He did talk about tax cuts throughout the campaign.

    (One thing I liked about Hillary--actually, the only thing I liked about Hillary--was that she seemed more concerned with the deficit than Obama did.)
  • Bush_Bites · 11 months ago
    I can Google literally millions of articles like this one from 2007.

    The Illinois senator’s plan to “relieve the burden of the middle class” includes four points: 1) an income tax cut of $500 per person (or $1,000 per working family) for 150 million Americans; 2) a universal mortgage interest credit of 10% for homeowners who make under $50,000 a year; 3) the elimination of income tax for retirees making less than $50,000 a year; and 4) simplifying the process of filing a tax return.

    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/09/...
  • Akaison · 11 months ago
    That would be an interesting trick considering the stimulus package being discussed was not mentioned until after the melt down, and the Bush administrations failure to address it. Summers discussed 800 billion in stimulus,a nd they were talking primarily about Kensian poliices. I would love to see how you got something linking to that in 2007.
  • RichardfromHB · 11 months ago
    If we deficit spend enough to make China nervous about the real value of all our debt, we will spend our way into national bankruptcy. I see an Argentina style debt nationalization in our future, because we won't be willing to make the tough belt-tightening needed in the future to pay off the debt. Any politician that proposes it would be thrown out of office. We could stave this off somewhat with a carbon tax on gas etc., a return to actually taxing high income persons, or other income measures. Enron paid NO tax in the last five years of its existence, but had almost 800 off-shore penergy trading "partnerships" which were totally legal, and donated 1/4 million to Bushes inaugeration committee. It's cheaper to buy influence than pay taxes. As Ross Perot said so long ago: The problem is that no one wants to pay for the party.
  • comsympinko · 11 months ago
    Sigh...

    Oh well.

    You go to war with the Democrats you have, not the Democrats you wish you had.
  • Wolfsinger · 11 months ago
    wow. Your comment is sadly funny.
  • Boycottutah · 11 months ago
    Obama "Empty Suit" bumper stickers:

    http://bumperstickers.cafepress.com/item/obama-...
  • EdNSted · 11 months ago
    It is clear -- to me at least -- that the people who are most aggressively drinking the Obama Kumbaya Kool-aid are the ones who will be most disappointed by his administration. Kumbama may think that dragging everyone into the rubber life raft is a great idea but I would argue that knife-wielding rubber haters are best left in the water and poked with a long, sharp stick.
  • tofubo · 11 months ago
    if the $300 large doesn't coincide w/$330 large in spending cuts, i don't want any of it